Of Baboons and Men | Robert Sapolsky | EP 390
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- Dr. Jordan B Peterson sits down with Neuroendocrinology researcher and author of the upcoming book Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will, Robert Sapolsky. They discuss how Game Theory applies to human behavior across iterative rounds of play, the unexpected success of the tit-for-tat principle, the role of dopamine in the anticipation of the future, and the objective reality of transcendent structures within our biological routines.
Robert Sapolsky is an American Neuroendocrinology researcher, author, and communicator. He has spent decades studying primates in the wild, written numerous articles and books, as well as produced multiple video series on the subject. By the age of 12, Sapolsky was writing to well known primatologists as a fan, and had also begun teaching himself Swahili with the early ambition of heading to Tanzanian, Mozambique, and Kenya in search of his own primates (Specifically Silverback Gorillas) to study. Not too much later, Sapolsky would make contact with a group of gorillas in Kenya, a group he would visit every year for 25 years, spending 4 months studying them at a time. Sapolsky would go on to become the John A. and Cynthia Fry Gunn Professor at Stanford University, holding joint appointments in several departments, including Biological Sciences, Neurology & Neurological Sciences, and Neurosurgery.
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Ep.390
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Robert Sapolsky on X robot_sapolsky?la...
- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(1:08) Intro
(2:05) Game Theory, the logic of our behavior
(6:13) The shadow of the future
(10:31) You are a community across time, Utilitarian thinking
(15:25) Tit-for-tat, iterative game competitions
(18:00) The Prisoner’s Dilemma
(23:11) Tit-for-tat in bats
(24:24) Signal errors, virtualization
(28:57) Radical forgiveness
(31:20) Shared culture, demonizing the foreign
(33:04) Faith in the possibility of humanity
(36:03) Founder populations
(37:41) Abraham, the underlying ethos
(41:20) Religion and retention
(44:08) Cain and Abel, sacrifice, maturity, and dopamine
(47:30) The extension of knowledge into the future
(50:08) The dopaminergic system, future rewards
(53:00) Agency, quasi-predictability, the power of “maybe”
(56:30) The ultimately addictive slot machine
(57:50) Pattern of the hero
(1:01:50) You’re a winner if people want to play with you
(1:03:39) Freedom of association
(1:05:41) The meaning of “store up your treasure in heaven”
(1:08:56) Punishing generosity
(1:12:48) Playing at the edge of additional generosity
(1:14:20) Baboons, anticipation, the range of pleasures
(1:16:21) Refining taste, the tragic implication
(1:18:40) Dostoevsky, "Notes From the Underground"
(1:20:54) You are not built for satiation
(1:23:32) False adventures, pathology and addiction
(1:26:11) What God lacks
(1:28:00) Studying primates for 30 years
(1:31:13) The result of an abundance of females
(1:37:03) Third party enforcers, cultural transmission
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UA-cam is amazing. I'm a middle aged woman in a middle class town, folding laundry and cooking dinner while listening to this amazing conversation. I love learning like this.
I know this feeling
I'm much the same but in France and I also love learning in this way
Thank goodness we can listen to people with PhDs for free with a click of a button. That's certainly an advantage of our times.
Yes❤I love it
Sitting In the toilet and listening too.
I love to hear Dr Peterson talking about evolution, psychology, and human behaviour rather than politics and politicians.
Politics is very emotional it seems like, very divisive, and goes into frustrations with the inability of the mind to discern truth vs falsehood or wether some politician somewhere is lying about this or that. All not very scientific and reasoanble, and too far into the domestic arena.
@@pastamane7167 beautifully thought and expressed.
Politics are so far beyond his expertise that it is like listening to Elon Musk when he tries.
@pastamane7167 yeah, that the world is under continous threat. Our scientific knowledge was faster than our primitive feelings. Many people use mobile phones and the Internet to waste time instead of learning about how it works and its relationship with the nature of the universe (our nature). The vast majority prefers to continue feeling secure about what life is and that leads them to close themselves in on their own ideals, which are then taken advantage of by politicians
My man is talking more than his guests, he loves his own thoughts lmao
Robert is so patient - the "conversation" goes all over the place via Peterson. I eagerly await Robert's response in all of these interviews. He stays right on the topic Peterson drives to and responds with relevant content. That's the sign of a remarkably kind and intelligent person.
Better Robert dealt with Jordans desire to have his say. Not exactly great work by Jordan.
I agree - Sapolsky is always motivated to listen and respond kindly. Not a fan of Peterson but he made thoughtful points,this was interesting. A good listen.
Given how loquacious these two are, I’m very grateful that they were able to give each other space to equally express their ideas. Excellent convo.
Loquacious, not verbose. 👍
Their loquaciousness canceled each other out haha
I think Peterson kept trying to beat him to the point tho to prove his smartness. When ultimately if sapolsky is the guest you should let him speak
@@benhallo1553 I think I'll be more generous and say that Peterson just can't contain himself, and it's not about showing off or proving smartness, but rather a result of him being so engaged that it bursts forth. He always tends to speak a lot, and people often say that he should let his guests speak more. Moreover, Peterson has himself acknowledged that he has this tendency.
@@careyjamesmajeski3203
🤓🤜🤛🤓
More than 15 years ago I declared myself a Sapolsky fan when I saw him for the first time in a documentary. I am a lawyer, but I have never stopped reading about science, from astronomy to biology. Robert's latest book "Behave" is the best science book I have ever read, by far. It is a privilege for someone like me, from the south of the world (Chile), from a small town, to be able to access some of Robert's classes at Stanford that were published on UA-cam a few years ago. Thank you Robert Sapolsky for your work and thank you J.P for inviting him and helping spread the knowledge. Long live UA-cam ;)
Behave is not his latest book, Determined is and unsurprisingly JP did not talk to him about it at all.
I loved Behave! Am looking forward to reading Determined! I fully agree with you ❤
@@spellandshieldthe krauss interview is way better 😋
@@karakaspar1791 Obviously as both of them (Krauss and Sapolsky) are on the same page. Peterson won't touch free will with a 100 foot pole because it would damage his reputation and world view.
@@spellandshield You're right
I learned to read at age 3 and am 61, and have read thousands of books.
One of the top 100 is the story of the founding of "Kendall Jackson Winery" starting as a lark to own a small winery for a SF Bay Area Real Estate Lawyer.
He figured out that the land the wine grapes grow on is the most valuable part of the equation, and bought huge real-estate interests all over California "secretly" knowing he could create an empire that would "last 400 years" and he did it. It's amazing. He knew zero of winemaking and now has a huge family owned wine business in stores all over the US.
Funny how in the US some success story like that is celebrated, whereas in Europe, myself included, would point to the problem those "Land-grabs" cause.
I am a doctor from Mexico. Couldn’t imagine a few years ago that these two would talk. Amazing. Refreshing to see someone as passionate as Dr. Sapolsky in the spotlight. Looking forward to that new book!
These 2 talking is what raises my red flags of BS. Peterson is a religious fanatic, mainly because due to his cowardish personality (just look the interview with his wife, she is a rock and he is the blanket). The more a coward someone is the more they need to believe in magic and stuff out there taking care of them or not being as bad or cruel. That soils reason and logic.
I left my Peterson era a few years ago when evidence increased and I matured but I'll give this one a try just to be fair with the subject.
Y recuerda wey, manten la mente abierta pero no tan abierta como para que se te caiga el cerebro.
*_“I feel giddy with intellectual stimulation.”_*
What a great way to end.
Everyone likes to feel that. Everyone likes to hear that.
You both were some of the biggest influences on me going back to school. I’ll graduate this spring with a triple major in physics, chemistry, and biology. It has been, probably, the hardest thing I’ve ever done voluntarily. I’m not sure how it will all turn out, there have been many disappointments, but thank you both for getting me started.
That is so inspiring. I love science, and want to educate myself more on it. I’ve learnt a lot from Sapolsky’s book Behave and lecture series.
Bravo!
Well done, and all the best for the future!
Nice 🧢 😂😂😂😂
should have just studied music
structure and function of reality is already fully captured in music theory
hate to be a downer, i majored in chemistry and after studying pythagoras music theory it became obvious that all other 'sciences' are just lazy and incomplete representations of music
It's actually emotional for me to see these two minds come together. I have two of Sapolsky's books and I love his way of speaking. I have wanted to see them do an interview for so long.
So crazy - I have thought the same thing for a while now!
which books do you have? I have read Behave, The Trouble with Testosterone, and im reading his newest book, Determined (100 pages to go! It’s amazing!)
The world of politics desperately needs minds like Dr. Peterson!! What he and his colleagues are doing in the world of politics just may be the thing that saves the free world!!
Me too!@@karenfitchmclean796
listen to chomsky buddy you will end up lost if you listen to these pair.
1:00:29 Peterson is learning, he used to interrupt during interviews, this is an example where he caught himself doing it. Hell yeah, loving it. Good job
Exactly my reaction too! :)
I think that habit of dominating conversations comes from decades of classroom lecturing, where he talked and students listened. The lecturer has to keep talking and moving the topic forward or he'll lose the group. As opposed to now he is having a reciprocal conversation and sharing of ideas and concepts. I suspect he's been told a few times to share to conversation.
It's because rob is a real scholar that is respected across disciplines and fields, where JP is not.
@@andyrix54 Conservative upbringing.....
Peterson expressed serious respect thru that gesture - Really enjoyed this convo. So very fruitful
@@andyrix54 Sapolsky is also a veteran lecturer but I never saw him interrupting in such a rude manner
Love this conversation, and it went a lot better than I thought it might. I think Jordan is at his best when he's not dealing with politics or being attacked for the religious aspects of his work. He seemed genuinely interested and invested in this conversation, and when that happens, I think his guests are pleasantly surprised. Dr. Sapolsky is amazing, and if you haven't read his stuff, you should definitely check it out. Really funny and really insightful.
I agree with this, these are my favorite Peterson podcasts, even if I can't understand half of it, more to learn from multiple listens.
Love these guys!!
Sapolsky is usually very funny. I think he will regret this interview.
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
It just kept going too! Some have an apex and 2-3 “wow” moments, but this truly kept on rolling 7’s. From gambling games to baboons, to immorality, and dopamine impacts. But the game theory within other animal species really blew my mind.
@@ravenheartwraithI kept having to go back and try to understand some of it, but it’s really better to blast through. Then go back after thinking on it for a few hours. Time well spent.
Jordan just explained my 60/60 rule of relationships. Put 60% into your relationship (more then you expect to get out) and when you meet someone else willing to do the same thing foster those relationships because the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts. Been one of my values for as long as I can remember.
Good luck meeting that coworker, instead of a freeloader!
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
Most women will get more out of the relationship than the man, and most women will invest less than the man. That’s how the equation really plays out.
Interesting. Screencapped
@@peripheralparadox4218that's why it's better to be with a woman who is a little worse than you (a little less attractive, intelligent, successful, etc.). It's a woman's market right now or at least they think it is until they're 35 and jaded.
Took a screen shot of that. Thank you.
I like interviews much more when they are not about politics...
So captivating and interesting conversation, thank you!
It is about politics in the sense that it influences u to vote certan way whiich is ofcourse no problem as long as it is true
@@MrMajsterixxjust because you can politicize everything doesn't mean everything is political
@@MrMajsterixxyou can boil down everything to politics (which is just about human interactions), doesn't mean that the core of the topic is politics.
just left the chat lol
Yeah same here. I wished Peterson would do more of this content. It’s my box in expectation for him but I believed I just see him more comfortable in academia than anywhere else.
Maybe it’s my thirst for knowledge that yearns for this; and the fact that they are good speakers and can break down concepts into digestible content; even to each other on a platform such as thing.
It's a real stress reliever watching two human beings of such intellect being in happy agreement on these deep topics
Episode 390 with Robert Sapolsky is in my “Top 5” best episodes of the Jordan Peterson podcasts.
I've been waiting for this for about 2 years now since Robert appeared on Andrew Huberman's podcast regarding the topic of Freewill. Been following Dr.Sapolsky and Dr.Peterson's work for years now, it's so great to to see these two together! Thank you for all the important research you two have been contributing
YES SAME
I didn't know he'd been on the andrew huberman podcast, now I gotta go watch that too.
robert has been doing several interviews lately, promoting his books, i recommend them all, as the different interviewers ask different questions!
Unfortunately, Jordan Peterson dared not bring up the topic of free will.
I was very disappointed, but I should have expected it to be this way because Jordan Peterson doesn’t have good arguments for the existence of free will.
Thanks for sharing!
Robert Sapolsky is such a great teacher. I've watched many of his lectures.
I feel depressed whenever I try to watch his lectures.
I wish there were more of his lectures! We need more of Sapolsky talking.
Dr. Sapolsky’s Stanford lectures (which are available on UA-cam) are absolutely excellent.
Surprised Jp was able to book him. Old man winter is quite buisy this time of the year 😀
@mattmatt6572 sorry, why is he busy?
wonder how Sapolsky feels about there being an antiabortion advert on a video he appears in
Haha was wondering if this would be top comment
"Turns out one of the biggest predictors on what kind of life you're gonna have, is that did your parents even want you in the first place."
The quote isn't exact, it's what I remember from one of Saplosky classes on UA-cam.
I wish this podcast was 5 hours long; so much great information.
I've been waiting eight years for this conversation, even suggested it in an email to JP. Sapolsky's Human Behavioral Biology is epic. I hope these two have a couple of conversations. Another individual I hope JP speaks with is Gabor Mate. THANK YOU!
Yeah, I think that would be good too. Obviously Mate is no fan of Peterson which is too bad.
Would love to see Gabor as well. I think they would have a great convo on child psychology.
@@AFringedGentianwhy is this ?
@@guitardeezwhy is that
@@anybodyoutthere3208 He had negative words about Jordan in his new book, Rogan podcast, rebel wisdom, newest Russell brand podcast. Gabor has also stated he is a communist.
I believe he is wrong about his analysis of Peterson. There are more examples, those are just a few I can think of at the moment.
In terms of verbal IQ, interesting research, and intellectualism, smartest guest on your podcast thus far. I've been listening to Robert over 10 years now, they guy is a power house
Idk man, he did have the duck dynasty folks on, so Sapolsky is probably #2
Wow - yes!! I totally agree. When I read ‘Behave’, I nearly cried with joy. It was every bit as good as his Stanford lectures, and perhaps more so because I had time to pause and reflect at the truly weighty observations. There’s also the bonus that it came out eight years after the lectures were published here on UA-cam, so all those years meant even more research and examples. I highly recommend it 😊
So sad Sapolsky got victimized by this unethical danger to human society.
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
Hey, I never comment here, but this was amongst the best podcasts I've ever heard. Jordan and Robert are playing a symphony of thoughts together.
Symphony with one phony. Not a one-trick phony, a loquacious one.
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
Well said
Thank you for this convo, Sapolski is a IMMENSE mind like yourself Dr, thanks to both of you and for it being FREE!!!!!!!!!!
At 43 I decided to go back to school to combine my graduate work in physiology with a doctorate in psychology. These are the top two influences in my line of reasoning. And this conversation did not disappoint
Philosophy?
@freebird1477 in short, my thesis is personality type correlates to movement patterns and the downstream affects. In the short term linking type AB personality types to back pain. Long term want to do a full movement screen with big 5 traits
@@samuelcyr4524that sounds fascinating, i'm intrigued.
I was disappointed that Dr. Peterson refrained from talking about the lack of free will with Dr. Sapolsky.
Ever done an extended meditation retreat ?
I saw Mr. Sapolsky on the Skeptic show the other day and I learned so much about life that I had been wondering about, wow!
So explain how this happened to a confirmed Skeptic!
JP is NOT a scientist. Search "Why is psychology NOT considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
I started watching this when it was posted, left off in the first 15 min then encountered his talk with HG Moeller posted around the same time, which was excellent. I had to then listen to this in full, Thanks for the talk.
I am a Robert Sapolsky stan. I've watched many of his behavioural psychology lectures. It's his tone of voice and inflections, how he tells stories, it's hard to forget. Plus he outtalked Jordan here hehehehe. This is a 5 star episode.⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
What a wonderful world; a place where talent and courage enable a man like Dr. Peterson to reach an audience of millions instead of just the small numbers in his classrooms.
For now. Canada government might shut him down after this month😢😢😢😢
JP is a menace to World Peace by erudtely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
I wish with all my might that Peterson and Sapolsky become best of friends and have these kinds of discussions over coffee 3x per week
390 conversations in just this series alone. Incredible thoughts and effort all around.
What an engaging conversation between two amazingly smart and interesting men. It was a joy to see the change over time in Sapolsky's demeanor as the conversation progressed; initially appearing a bit reserved to being fully engaged and, as he describes it at the end - 'giddy with intellectual stimulation'. Thank you Dr. Peterson for your podcast and thank you Dr. Sapolsky for being a guest.
Robert will soon be giddy with rage... he got played.
JP is NOT a scientist. Search "Why is psychology NOT considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
I fear that is weariness due to Jordan's (undeserved) reputation.
This may be one of the most important conversations on CensorTube or the internet for that matter. Thank you both for you work and coming together to unravel and reveal these great mysteries. 🙏🏾🇺🇸❤️
Gandalf the White and Radagast the Brown should have a monthly podcast. Thank you! ❤
Two men that restore my dwindling faith in the intellect of humanity.
The fear of psychopaths being enabled with the virtualisation of the world is strikingly well articulated starting at 28:09. Let this remind us that tech and algorithms should be shaped responsibly, preventing psychopaths from winning the "game". Bravo for this conversation!
Robert's got some good lectures on UA-cam. Highly recommend checking it out.
He has some great videos on P0rnhub as well
Why did the guest get giddy when talking about manipulation of bats to induce starvation?
His lecturers on the Stanford channel are awesome .. somewhat dated but still well worth a watch .
@@jeremybrimmer1990Because the insight the research yielded is significant, and he is a giddy data dopamine junkie.
@@willmercury "significant"
I never imagined seeing these two together, what a treat! ❤
Jordan Peterson needs to do more of these convos with actual scientists instead of politics. This was an objectively good conversation.
Sapolsky has a lecture on how stress can produce long-term depression on humans. It's one of the best I have ever seen.
Yep, and anti- depressants do not change situations that cause stress or unhappiness. But easier or more beneficial for those in power to pretend its an " illness" ( not a biologically normal and appropriate reaction ), and drug unhappy people than change the circumstances making them unhappy.
@@robinantonio8870 The tragedy here is that some may not be able to sufficiently change their circumstances. To do so requires one to 1) want to change those circumstances in the first place, 2) have a support network that helps facilitate the desired changes, 3) to be able to understand what the underlying problems are that produced those circumstances (not everyone has the self-reflective ability/intelligence for this, or severe trauma prevents exploration), and 4) some degree of luck (culture you are born into, if you have some money to hold you over for a while, approved for certain aid/resources, etc).
Good case for reopening asylums. Some people need somewhere to go because otherwise their chances are slim to none.
Peterson and Sapolsky are like yin and yang when it comes to producing political thought out of studying humans.
I'm honestly surprised to see Sapolsky here.
I'd like to see them challenge each other's views but I suspect it's not going to happen today.
The subtext of immediately going into game theory and tit for tat is quite delectible though.
I would encourage anyone who's into Peterson to watch Sapolsky's content on testosterone for example as I think it would bring balance to people's thoughts on human nature. While you're at it, just watch and read everything he's produced. He's very concise, informative and rigorous. Also funny and likable.
Edit : This was a very nice watch. Mostly the end about cultural transmission of cooperation amongst baboons. The way Peterson reacted to that felt genuine, and I remember having the same type of reaction when I first heard about it, I think in one of the Stanford lectures. I'm very excited for this conversation to continue. I wonder if Peterson will have objections against the optimistic nature of this story or if it will have any consequences on his worldview. For me it did.
Totally. It would be fascinating to have them discuss the newly emerged woke culture and compare them to other cultures.
I’ve never heard him.
Yin and yang, but also have so much common ground. Maybe there IS hope after all....
Sapoksky has been critical of the current political state affecting free expression in academia.... and he's quite the lefty..
If you're honest and searching for truth, political orientation is irrelevant. Knowledge is our common ground. It must be protected above all else.
@@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2itEverything matters including political orientation. It colors how people are able to acquire knowledge and will either slow or accelerate synthesizing information.
Sapolsky’s lecture series on Behavior is some of the best free content on the internet; as is Peterson’s Maps of Meaning series. I consume anything they put out. I feel lucky to live in a time where this information can be distributed to humanity so easily.
For some reason I was expecting this to be more of a debate, like JP's chats with Sam Harris. What a warm and friendly surprise.
I loved this podcast!
I am currently going through a lot in my academic, personal, health and familly life. Was very low on positive expectations for a future in lecturing in higher education and many other aspects of life. This conversation, was such a warm intelectual conversation of reaching new grounds and stimulating a positive outlook to the world. That I need to ask, PLEASE have this gentleman as a returning guest! What a wonderfull conversation to be shared with!!
I can’t get enough of this! I want more! Huge fan of Robert Sapolsky and Jordan Peterson, this is by far my favourite episode! They are simply a great combination in neuroscience! Hope to hear more from them❤ 🇿🇦
This episode resonates with me so much. The mapping of religion and game theory on one another is such an expansive view. And the continual reset of the dopamine system resonates with my personal experience. I'm perpetually underwhelmed and that feels awful. But it is also the source of always standing up again.
What a joy to hear the two make inroads into each other's investigations, and not have to listen to the stressful babel of human politics.
I like how they left us on a positive note, with the idea of more to come.
I've waited for many years for these two giants to meet up and have the brilliant conversation that i just watched; Seriously gentleman this was an amazing talk!👌🙏
Watching the lectures of both professors makes me realize how lucky their students were, and are. There are only a few lecturers who can really connect with you when they tell their powerful and thoughtful anecdotes.
My God! I've dreamt of this interview for years. Two of my favorite contemporary intellectuals, not to mention, two men that have impacted my life for good.
@@MichelleLouiseDavis”I feel giddied with intellectual stimulation.” ~ R. Sapolsky at the end of the interview.
You may not like Peterson or his views but to say he isn’t an intellectual is a lie. You are a mean baboon.
Your "god?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by erudtely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptitiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
I am fan of both. Looking to the next conversation with all the topics that were left out. Thank you very much for this stimulating conversation. All the best to you!!!
I think I never heard of Robert Sapolsky. Thats a very good conversation.
Thinking about authorities, how can this be applied?
Suppose a neighbor, a partner, a judge, an attorney of state, a politician, a parent who wants to abduct a child from theater parent etc. They are also talking about issues that last longer than the person itself. This can already be documents that will not leave when someone leaves or dies.
It's vey clear they will be very careful when they know they have to deal with you. When they know you are around for a long time.
Peterson aggregates:
1:01:51
'...it doesn't matter whether you win or lose but how you play the game is because life is a sequence of NeverEnding
multiple games and you're a winner if people want to play with you and if you're a little prick when you win any
given game and when you if you whine and complain because you've lost even if you're an expert at that game no one's going to want to play with you...'
It was just a matter of time for them to meet. Thanks to both of them for the lectures. I think I've learnt more from them in the last 4 years I've been watching their videos on UA-cam, than what i've learned in school and college. Also professor Michael Sugrue and professor Darren Staloff are 2 of my favourite lecturers. Look them up! You'll thank me!
Watched some of Robert's lectures a while back. He is incredibly funny and engaging
Me too! It's amazing how many good lectures are available online including Robert's and JBP's.
@@germanflozeIt's *such* a great resource, I hope students are using it to the full. So many world-class lectures at the touch of a button! I wish it had been available when I was at university!
His books, Monkey Luv and Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers are absolutely fantastic reads. Highly recommend.
Thank you so much for having this conversation with Robert.
Glad you have Robert on the podcast. I liked his book Behave so much I sent him a thank you letter. What a mammoth effort that must have taken to write, and as a person without much knowledge on this topic, I found his book very readable. It was hard work, but he wrote it in a way that with some effort, the average thinking reader can understand it. He also replied to my thank you email!
That is so cool
I loved the footnote that "I have no f__king idea what I just wrote" or something similar!
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
not a big fan recently of peterson, but for this guest, he is one of the best interviewers possible
I'm 39 minutes into this and it keeps making the case for raising our children properly, and how screwed we are if we let things get any worse. It's very interesting. Thanks again Dr. Peterson
This was one of my favorite podcast i'm so happy you two finally got in touch ive been waited for it and it did not dissapoint, more por favor ^.^
This is the conversation we’ve all been waiting for!
Sapolsky got me interested in biology and Peterson got me interested in psychology. I’m now in med school and no small part thanks to these two incredible individuals. I was so engaged in this conversation that I feel like I time traveled. I would love a part 2!
Search "Why isn't psychology considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
Robert and Jordan, havent clicked on a podcast so fast since the pandemic days
This was my absolute dream podcast! Both of these men changed my life! ❤
There are so many videos of people saying many profound things about a topic, but it's rare, especially in such a short amount of time, for two people to say so many profound things about so many profound topics, especially when they're related. This is one of the most amazing conversations I've heard in a long time.
Wow, i've always watched Dr. Sapolsky lectures here in YT, and now we've got another lesson for free. Thank you.!!
It's a real privilege to listen to both minds talking to each other. I would love to see these two guys discussing free will.
I'm guessing Jordan, or his people, scheduled this talk contingent on the idea they DON'T talk about free will. For reasons that are not mysterious, lol
Not sure how to write this with precision but... OMG what an amazing conversation... these guys just fleshed out in comprehendable words that which Ive only been able to define the basic outline of in my miasmic imaginings. Like feelings made tangible. Liquid to solid. Great to see JP leaning into this with such clarity and Robert S the master, so deftly refining, enhancing and building the structures JP constructs.
Like the satisfaction of clicking puzzle pieces together
Very nice to see Robert on Lawrence Krauss podcast last week, and now listen to him talk to the great Dr. Peterson. Very informative.
For all of the damage in the world right now, having exposure to such education and insights as this gives me so much hope that its being consumed and will eventually find productive positive outlets
JP is NOT a scientist. Search "Why is psychology NOT considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
I am very grateful for this conversation. I loved Sapolsky's Standford lectures.
Wow no way Sapolsky is on JP podcast 😮 wasn’t expecting this. What a pleasant surprise!
VERY UNPLEASANT, if you notice the embedded ad.
JP is NOT a scientist. Search "Why is psychology NOT considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
Incredible conversation! I've been familiar with Dr Sapolsky for quite a few years, got into Dr Peterson in more recent years, and wow, what a fantastic collaboration of ideas it turned out to be! Thank you to the both of you!
I so enjoyed listening to this. Two of my favorite intellectuals speaking. So hoping that there will be a second sit down.
They use language so differently: Jordan uses his biggest words in his longest sentences to ask a single question or make a single statement.
Robert tells a funny or interesting or dramatic story with an obvious message, and then tells us why it's relevant or misunderstood. Truly a skilled communicator and teacher. Also kinda cool that he's actually spent his career in research and not just a face or personality for his topic.
Super kind of him to guest on Jordan's show, especially because they didn't seem to talk about the free will book Robert just published.
big sarcasm
Probably because free will doesn't fit in with Peterson's God narrative. After all, if free will doesn't exist then belief in God is rendered obsolete.
The difference is Robert has a deep understanding of what he's talking about and therefore allows him to communicate in a clear fashion. Peterson uses big words and rambling sentence to hide the fact that he is a pseudo intellectual.
@@bluegtturbowhat? If you don't have free will then surely God, or something, is moving you about. If you have free will, God ,or something, is not moving you about, so perhaps there isn't one....
@@bluegtturbo "Probably because free will doesn't fit in with Peterson's God narrative. After all, if free will doesn't exist then belief in God is rendered obsolete." Nope not really.
I click on Jordan's video thumbnails usually because he sparks my interests mildly but I always become enthralled by not only the topic but the conversation and the passion of the experts he interviews. I could not leave this video! I had to stay and watch and listen and be absolutely focussed with curiosity like a motivated student of life itself. A delightful conversation and so profoundly articulated at every turning point as one revelation lead to another. This was Epic!
"Epic?" Gen Z?
This was a victimization of real science.
JP is NOT a scientist. Search "Why is psychology NOT considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
It's wonderful to see you two talking to each other. Excellent discussion.
This has to be one of Dr Peterson’s top 20 discussions. Probably 500 real candidates with that potential, however this one was so fascinating.
Truly enjoyed the conversation and I wish it had gone one for another hour! Thank you!
Peterson AND Sapolsky!!!! This is like the Internet dividing by zero.. 😂 I have watched both Jordan's and Robert's entire lecture series multiple times. Together they have made such a massive impact in my life!!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Well said. This podcast gave me goosebumps. I don’t recall this ever happening before. We must be at the edge of a new fertile landscape.
Really? "Jordan and Sapolsky lecture series...." WHERE?
Sapolsky got played.
JP is NOT a scientist. Search "Why is psychology NOT considered a science?"
JP is a menace to World Peace by eruditely promoting religion, 4,000 year old fairy tales that groups EXCLUSIVELY MALE use to control women mostly, and everything else. The PROCESS of Evolution created gods and religious societies by enhancing reproduction, just as it does with cars, fast food, and New Improved Tide.
Does JP have legions of rapists waiting on his command? 😮
Does Sapolsky realize he got roped into a long advertisement for a surreptisiously religious Anti-Planned Parenthood organization begging for donations to take away women's Rights to Choose? 😢😢😮😢😢
Sapolsky has no Free Will.
His need to promote his ideas left him vulnerable to unknowingly (?) supporting something else he denies - gods.
Standing ovation…..more please ….much more .I had a wonderful time listening to you both.Thank you.
Thank you for having Robert on. I watched his lectures years ago. Binged them in a few days, they're so good!
The first time I saw Robert Sapolsky was in the "Human Nature" part of the documentary "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward". It blew my mind. All the stuff on behavior is absolutely fascinating. And it also introduced me to people like Richard Wilkinson, Gabor Mate, James Gilligan. Absolute giants in their field. And I'm grateful to be able to learn from them. I've since listened to every lecture and interview w Sapolsky I can find. And I think they've made me a better person.
Two of my favorite psychologists of all time! I´m about to start this conversation and I am already salivating for what's coming. Thanks Jordan and Rob!
@@MichelleLouiseDavis Thank you human correcting tool
ROBERT SAPOLSKY HERE ??! I would never have dreamed about it!
Why? Peterson acknowledged his work many times.
Oh no way. Years ago I went through Robert Sapolski's entire video lecture set from a Stanford course and was fascinated by neurochemistry, how parasites can manipulate that chemstry in the host, all that. Perfect teacher for my learning style. Thanks Robert! You should really check out those lectures, it will take hours to go through them but I promise you will be glad you did. And here we have a convo between him and Jordan Peterson?!?!. This will be fantastic!
We absolutely need a part 2!
This is a conversation I've been waiting for years.
I hope someday JBP speaks to Thomas Sowell as well.
Don't you think it's amazing that we live in a time in which we all get to view these level scholars having this level conversations?
Yes
We are truly blessed.
Yes! And for free 😮 🙂
"Someday". Well it's not like he has forever
What clarity, what wisdom. Thank you Gentlemen. 🇦🇺
Very surprised they didn't mention the 25 part lecture series on behavioral human biology from Stanford that Sapolsky gives is on UA-cam for free.
I really liked how they modeled listening and giving the other speaker the benefit of the doubt so they could hear the point. 2 of my 3 favorite professors! Thank you
Very enlightening and thought provoking talk. Sending you both wishes for inner peace and more collaborative talks❤😊
Jordan please please please make a talk on stress for people talking care/ living with people with psychological disorders. I still with all the readings, training, and efforts of not to relive my mother's experience with bipolar, watching her suffering as a child and while growing up still affecting my life, character, and behaviour. Your talks and books have been hepful though
I'm really happy to see these two in an interview together. I've been a fan of Robert for years and have watched the vast majority of his lectures online.
In my opinion, this is the very best conversation to ever possibly evesdrop into! Two of the best minds in acedemia. Thank you both and, thanks to the channel.
I was thinking about this interview one month ago . So happy they decided to handle this interview.
Dr Peterson, Dr Sapolsky, wow wow wow! Thank you so much for your enlightenment. More please! A recent interest I've had in the mythology of dragons, apparently they feature amongst the earliest myths we have, caused me to ask the question "why is that?" I speculate that the myths are an integral part of the formation of civilization in as much as a dragon might represent rage. And here is where I found this podcast especially interesting as it wound up chatting about the change in aggression of the baboon troop and the mechanisms by which it occurred. It caused me to think that one of the most important attributes of early man was that of garnishing an understanding (meaning an outside perspective) and then trying to defeat rage itself. Hence the later mythology of the knight defeating the dragon "inside himself" to win the admiration of the maiden. Because what use is a man who hasn't conquered his rage to any unified group? There doesn't seem to be an age limit to this story. One could almost say it's the central hidden theme of all the worlds religions? Rage seems to be so devastating to any group or civilization, yet we persist under it's blinding influence. I also speculate that early man may have gained an outside perspective by observing other species and specifically by observing dogs. I find it very interesting that dogs have been alongside us for so long and that they can so easily fly into rage at the drop of a hat. Our alter egos unleashed maybe . But certainly placing us in a great position to observe. Thanks again.
Such a great conversation. Two great minds. Thank you JP and Robert Sapolsky 🙌🏻
Prisoners dilemna and game theory has to be one of my favourite pieces I've ever learned, especially because its so easily observed and also successfully applied.
I was wondering if a conversation between these two would ever happen!! Thank you!
Two of my fav professors 😢 I definitely felt the dopamine rush in the anticipation of watching it.
Wow, what a conversation. I've studied a bit of game theory, but this conversation really made everything click and linked so many concepts together. Fantastic discussion.
I requested this connection so long ago in the comment section of another one of your videos🎉 I was dying to hear two of my favorite people just picking each other's brains❤❤❤❤❤
I desperately need a follow up interview between the two of you, interesting is a massive understatement!