That's good news! It's obvious that Bishop Helen-Ann Hartley, long time supporter of LLF, has thrown her teddy out. It's a measure of the integrity of today's liberal bishops.
Before this bishop resigned, did she even bother to actually have a dialogue with this new theological adviser before making her decision to leave, or has she quit simply because she has thrown a tantrum over someone being appointed that does not have the same views as her?
She’s acting like the women she is, a perfect example of the results we can expect having women in the clergy. Women do not know how to lead, have not had any experience leading and refuse to accept that they need to learn and gain experience before they can accept such responsibilities. Gaining such authority solely on the basis of their sex is a recipe for disaster. I think we have enough evidence to realize it needs to stop.
As a sinner myself, I hope the Anglican Church helps us recognising and repent our sins, rather than developing a delusional sense of entitlement for God's mercy. LLF is dangerous, it really is.
This is the crux of the matter, whether God's forgiveness is ever withheld. Some churches certainly want you to think so. It's not delusional/heretical/apostasy etc to get things wrong. Both sides think they're right. They both have good arguments. It's a question of whether it's better to err on the side of love and compassion or to err on the side of tradition. After reading the bible, what do you think is more important?
@@davidsprouse151false dichotomy. Everyone should repent of whatever error they're erring into and recommit to upholding the whole of God's Word. Ps it is loving to warn people of sin.
@@davidsprouse151 the trouble is all sides do that. Error & deception needs to be addressed with God's Word and that fact is made clear. All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness.
The process should never have begun. The thing is contrary to scripture. This has not been thought out in the true light of the word received and the result is this mess we now find ourselves in.
As a Christian in an evangelical church, when we need someone to take over the leadership of the church, we all pray to ensure he is the one that takes over the position is God's choice. In all these decisions that the Anglican church is making for these leadership roles, there seams to me a complete and total lack of pray (in fact it is not even menioned). No wonder the leadership of the Anglican church is in such a mess.
@@downenout8705 When it comes to the issue of same-sex blessings under LLF God has already spoken and spoken clearly about this. There is nothing to pray about.
@@downenout8705 There is no hypocrisy or inconsistency because the church is not under the Mosaic Law. I find it incredible how often this is brought up, together with mixed fibres and shellfish.
Phoebe was an apostle (Rom.16:7), there were multiple women prophets in NT times (Acts 2:17-18 and many other places) and several women elders/overseers such as Priscilla, Phoebe, Chloe, Lydia etc. Never mind Deborah, Esther, Miriam, Abigail, Rahab, etc. There is no good Biblical reason to exclude women from oversight roles.
@@francisscott2196it is forbidden verbatim in the Epistles. The example of women mentioned in the Epistles is a tacky strategy of fan fiction on the part of progressive Scripture twisters. They also deny or warp numerous other doctrines laid out clearly in Scripture.
Incorrect. Firstly it's Junias, not Phoebe, and it's not clear Junias was a woman (John Chrisostum thought so, but Epiphianus and Origen, who live over 150 year earlier, didn't). Secondly, the term apostle was used less specifically in the time of Paul than it is today. Paul is also quite explicit in this topic elsewhere in his Epistles. Prophets aren't the same thing as priests either, whether it's in the Old Testament or the early church. There.may have been female deacons too, but deacons can't administer Eucharist and that is the crux of the matter. Throughout Church History priestesses haven't been permitted until the last 30 years, just about the same time church attendance started to nosedive. Since then we've seen the introduction of all manner of heresy, including the rewriting of the Nicene Creed. If you read the bible in the context of the church fathers without inserting modern feminist politics there is ample reason to include women in Church roles, just not as priests. To challenge that you need more than one ambiguous line in one Epistle. You should view modern life through the lens of Scripture, not the other way around, and Church Leaders should do the same. If they don't the Church will dead in my children's lifetime
There can be no reconciliation. There is no sliding scale where there is a meeting point. Adhere to the teaching of the New Testament or don't. Repent.
@@andrewsmclark the reconciliation already happened in the sacrifice. Basically, in your first sentence you're saying "there can be no forgiveness" (by god for those you deem unworthy )which is patently false. It's not up to you.
Dear David, reconciliation of two diametrically opposing views is not the same as forgiveness. Forgiveness follows repentance, which is then followed by reconciliation of a damaged relationships that cause the rift in the first place. I am not sure what you are referring to when you say 'It's not up to you' - if you'd like to expand, I can respond. @@davidsprouse151
I replied, but it seems to have disappeared. What I said, @@davidsprouse151 , was that reconciliation of two views that are diametrically opposed is not the same as forgiveness. The only way for reconciliation to happen is on the other side of repentance, and then reconciliation is possible. Forgiveness is not automatically applied, but is available because of the sacrifice of Christ when sought. In the unlikely event of much in the way of repentance over this issue, this then means that reconciliation also unlikely.
So, basically, the Bishop of Newcastle stepped down due to a Conservative Bishop being appointed to this position? If this is true, she is only liberal if things go her way.
Aw, c'mon Dan - if she's going to throw her toys out of the pram like that, she's never fit to 'build bridges' in LLF. Unless she's sussed it will never have a theological undergirding.
How telling that Newcastle resigns when a Conservative theologian comes into the ring! How is that respectful is that?? What she is saying is that unless you believe the liberal position you're not welcome, has she read the Pastoral Privisions?
Seems to me that for a loss making organisation ...they need to reduce the number of HQ staff analysing the detail - and the importance of political correctness. Let the operatives of the business be responsible for running what they do - where they do it. It seems there are too many people deciding what we should believe - while the whole organisation is in the process of collapsing. Pastor Dan is doing well - but please remember he is called to make disciples - not to be embroiled in theological administrative discourse.
If I may be open and honest...And, please, do not receive this as mean-spirited... you should consider talking a bit slower. I love your content, but English is my second language, and sometimes it is almost impossible to understand what you are saying. I have to play back, slow you down, and even turn on the Closed Captions. Just a friendly request, brother.
I couldn't agree more, and ike you my comment is intended to be constructive. In my case English IS my first language but I too struggled to understand the very fast speech especially at the beginning of the video when it was completely unintelligible on first listening!
I don’t know what device you watch this on, but there is a playback speed option on UA-cam. I agree Dan does speak too fast sometimes. You might find it useful to playback at 0.75 speed.
Many thanks for your helpful reply. I watch UA-cam videos on both Android and Windows devices. I am hoping that Dan will also read these posts especially bearing in mind the number of people who "liked" the original post on the issue as It seems to indicate that others watching this video may also have struggled to hear what Dan was saying in whole or in part.
well that's 17 mins of my life I will never get back again! What a load of balderdash! 'Oh yes,' she says, 'I'll join with my (not really) conservative friend and brother in Christ to work to reconcile the two diametrically opposed sides in this argument' . . . 'Oh, wait, you mean my (not really) conservative friend and brother and I are going to have to work with THAT wretch, who clearly, from his past scribblings, REALLY does not agree with me (instead of just pretending). You mean I might have to actually do some work on this instead of poncing around looking official and nicey-nicey. Oh well, in that case I'm taking my ball and going home!' The whole CoE needs to grow up and decide what it wants to be, either orthodox or apostate.
NOT FIT FOR OFFICE A response to the statement of the House of Bishops of the Church of England 11th October 2023 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!" Jeremiah 23:1 We grieve with millions of faithful Anglicans around the world at the disastrous decision by the House of Bishops in the Church of England to agree in principle to commend Prayers of Love and Faith for same-sex couples. This action is offensive to the God of love. It replaces his wonderful gospel of grace with a distorted message, blessing what God calls sin. This is heart-breaking, wicked and outrageously arrogant. Together the House of Bishops have embraced heresy by departing from the clear teaching of Scripture on matters of sexual conduct. As a result, they have betrayed their office. At their consecration service, each bishop was instructed to “be to the flock of Christ a shepherd, not a wolf; feed them, devour them not.” However, by introducing, and not banishing “erroneous and strange doctrine”, they have become wolves. Together they have demonstrated they are not fit for office. They stand under judgement as did the shepherds of Israel in Jeremiah’s day. Their shame is further compounded by a seriously misleading and distorted appeal to reconciliation. In the House of Bishops’ statement, the Bishop of London asserts “the heart of the gospel is reconciliation.” However that reconciliation is first and foremost with our heavenly Father through the atoning death of Christ upon the cross, and only then, on that basis, to one another as forgiven sinners who serve Jesus as their Lord. To appeal to the cross as the grounds to "remain together as one Church in our uncertainty”, and, as a reason for embracing sin and failing to call for repentance, is an astonishing and blasphemous corruption of the grace of Christ and an entirely different gospel. We call on the House of Bishops to repent. We urge orthodox bishops, who have courageously fought for the truth, now to publicly dissent and distance themselves from their episcopal colleagues who are promoting these dangerous prayers. We continue to pray for our faithful brothers and sisters in the Church of England as they weep, resist this apostasy and trust our Sovereign Lord. With God’s help, we remain committed to the unchanging Biblical gospel which brings light, life and love to all who repent and put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. May the Holy Spirit compel us to preach Christ faithfully to the nations. Rt. Rev. Andy Lines (Presiding Bishop of ANiE) Rt. Rev. Stuart Bell (Assistant Bishop of ACE) Rt. Rev. Tim Davies (Assistant Bishop of AMiE) Rt. Rev. Ian Ferguson (Assistant Bishop of ACE) Rt. Rev. Lee McMunn (Assistant Bishop of AMiE)
The process should not involve her, it is not part of her job description. It shows that she see LLF a must and doesn't want any opposition. Those that oppose should go. It illustrates that she should not be a bishop as it is her way or the highway. She is a quitter something I did not want in anyone I hired. I wonder if she is worthy to be a parish priest. I have been in too many churches where the priest everything must be done his way and only his way. As a result the churches go into decline.
Sadly the main casualty of all of this is the authority of bishops and clergy. What authority have they to change the historical Faith? I can read the Bible and BCP and formularies as well as they can, and why are their conclusions any closer to the Gospel than mine? And the result is that year on year fewer attend their church.
The task of trying to bring some kind of consensus in an organisation irreconcilably polarised on a process sanctioned by a wafer thin margin - and some would say 'back door' manoeuvres - sounds like an unenviable assignment in the extreme. Doubtful then that +Newcastle will be the first to walk. Period of uncertainty indeed, with no winners in sight.
Why should theological conservatives modify their 'tone'? I accept the need for civility in discussions and debates, but this shouldn't dissuade people from assertively expressing their position. The modern progressive concept of tone policing is horrible.
Surely their resignations and statements confirm that their talk of reconciliation was the insincere window dressing many felt it was and the reset they spoke of was merely an emotional reset directed at conservatives.
Same sex marriage, as decided by Parliament, does not involve or include any sexual act...How can that be approved by any Christian, conservative or liberal? And how can some bishops claim that that wouldn't be a change, a very radical change, of doctrine?
I disagree in that Marriage is a sexual act, it is based entire on opposite sexes joining as one for the purpose of having and raising children. Just because a bunch of Liberals (many posing as conservatives) and neo-Marxists think they can redefine marriage (and reality) it doesn't mean they can...
Rev Dan, at 2.17 you wonder whether "the CofE may end up with 2 separate churches". The question to ask is this; Are liberals who are promoting same sex blessings & same sex marriage still believing and preaching the Gospel? If not, then by definition, they are not part of the Church. They are not members of the Universal church, built solely on the Gospel of Christ. Those who preach a different Gospel have left the church. I grieve for all faithful followers of Christ in the CofE . For any considering leaving, I can thoroughly commend the Anglican Mission in England and the Anglian Network in Europe as faithful, Biblical, authentic Anglican families of churches who are getting on with the work of preaching the Gospel and church planting, without this diabolical distraction.
So its ok to be a Vicar of Bray as lomg as you do it slowly? Glad I no longer attend a church which denies God's word, whether instantly or in slow motion. Scriptture IS. God does not debated with his creation.
In my view it's vital that different factions keep talking. A failure to do so will only lead to misunderstandings. My own theological position on LLF issues is orthodox, although I know Christians with views across the spectrum. Although people at opposite ends of the spectrum are equally uncomfortable at LLF taking place and see it as a waste of time, dialogue serves a useful purpose. Prior to LLF, one progressive Christian I know - who visits churches other than his regular one - thought that theological conservatives were nearly all elderly, which many of us are not. Equally, I was shocked prior to LLF by members of my theologically orthodox church who saw homosexuality as a mental illness which can and should be cured. Thankfully LLF has exposed such people to the evidence which shows this to be a myth, taken from secular thinking of about 50 years ago. My problem with a breakaway conservative wing is that I find it increasingly conflating Bible teaching with social conservatism I struggle to support from the Bible. For example the view that Christian women with young children should not be in paid work, or that the right to smack children should be supported. Both views are within the parameters a Christian reasonably can believe, but the Bible does not unequivocally support them.
Dan. Behaviour. Listening. Being with. Alongside. Identifying with the poorest. The sinner. The excluded. Putting the pharisees and saduccees back in the place they assume is theirs. Such was the Son of Man. Immanuel. God with us. Lover of my soul. Good news. And now? Synod. Division. Us and them. And the stench of absence, abandonment, hate. Such are the rifts in the Church today. To all - I say love. See the Son. There's your Love, Life, Faith. There's your God. So live. So love. I have lived to commands of the Church against myself. I died when the Church decided that I was not. When 'they' could not accept me. When I most needed love. When I most needed life. When I most needed the Son. And the Church turned away from me. Behaviour? Show me Love. Show me God. Show me Jesus. Then I will look at you. So that I can see something of the Son. Meanwhile - forget division. Condemnation. Judgment. You will leak your unlove. Your weaknesses. We all have have them. Be who you can be in the Son. Be for others as He was. Be for me?
Jesus Christ spoke plainly and did not hide behind courtesy. He said get behind me Satan, you thinking usnt God's thinking. Christians...thank you those that don't hold Christian morals but who hide behind that claim are Christian with their minds and boies they are not is intolerable. Jesus said "if yiu love me keep my commandments". A "broad church" is just cop out! Every Christian must conform their opinion to the teaching of St Peter, St Paul, St Jude and St James who articulate and hand on the teaching of Jesus Christ on human sexual behaviour.
We all sin, especially me, but I feel bad about and try to better rather than cherry picking out of context verses and stretching the credibility of translation to justify what is elsewhere explicitly and implicitly prohibited. (This is in agreement with you)
James 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. I am sorry that vitriol has been seen in the current debate. An example was shown in wishing apposes to an opinion to be iprisoned!
what I was saying in response to @davidsprouse151 above is that reconciliation and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness follows repentance, and only then can reconciliation can happen. Reconciliation is being used here as a synonym to ''compromise', where as biblical reconciliation is a restoration to truth and to God. In the case of the English Bishops and LLF, there is no real sign of repentance happening and so full reconciliation unlikely. Any compromise is likely to be just as...compromised!
@@andrewsmclark @andrewsmclark the reconciliation already happened in the sacrifice. Basically, in your first sentence you're saying "there can be no forgiveness" by god for those you deem unworthy which is patently false. It's not up to you. I see how you might not have been talking about reconciliation with god. Is that the case? btw it's called shadow banning. Happens to me all the time . It's a youtube algorithm
@@andrewsmclark IC what you're saying. the reconciliation already happened between god and man The "compromise" you're talking about is irrelevant. Truth and justice are philosophical terms. It's ok, we'll just disagree :) This is a really important aspect of christianity though. God does NOT withhold foregiveness. God only withholds forgiveness from those who refuse to turn their eyes upon Jesus, where repentence is the inevitable outcome. It's a process. I'm dubious about same sex blessings, but it's not blasphemy or apostasy by any definition.
That's good news! It's obvious that Bishop Helen-Ann Hartley, long time supporter of LLF, has thrown her teddy out. It's a measure of the integrity of today's liberal bishops.
As Helen-Ann Hartley is female, then she is, by definition, not a bishop.
@@marcokite Very true!!
@@marcokite My Bishop is very pouty.
Before this bishop resigned, did she even bother to actually have a dialogue with this new theological adviser before making her decision to leave, or has she quit simply because she has thrown a tantrum over someone being appointed that does not have the same views as her?
She’s acting like the women she is, a perfect example of the results we can expect having women in the clergy. Women do not know how to lead, have not had any experience leading and refuse to accept that they need to learn and gain experience before they can accept such responsibilities. Gaining such authority solely on the basis of their sex is a recipe for disaster. I think we have enough evidence to realize it needs to stop.
As a sinner myself, I hope the Anglican Church helps us recognising and repent our sins, rather than developing a delusional sense of entitlement for God's mercy. LLF is dangerous, it really is.
This is the crux of the matter, whether God's forgiveness is ever withheld. Some churches certainly want you to think so. It's not delusional/heretical/apostasy etc to get things wrong. Both sides think they're right. They both have good arguments. It's a question of whether it's better to err on the side of love and compassion or to err on the side of tradition. After reading the bible, what do you think is more important?
@@davidsprouse151false dichotomy. Everyone should repent of whatever error they're erring into and recommit to upholding the whole of God's Word.
Ps it is loving to warn people of sin.
It's not loving to impose one's world view on others knowing you might be in error.
@@davidsprouse151 the trouble is all sides do that. Error & deception needs to be addressed with God's Word and that fact is made clear. All Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness.
First step is recognizing the error. The philology just doesn't support the traditional take on homosexuality, women, other minorities. It's cultural.
The process should never have begun. The thing is contrary to scripture. This has not been thought out in the true light of the word received and the result is this mess we now find ourselves in.
As a Christian in an evangelical church, when we need someone to take over the leadership of the church, we all pray to ensure he is the one that takes over the position is God's choice. In all these decisions that the Anglican church is making for these leadership roles, there seams to me a complete and total lack of pray (in fact it is not even menioned). No wonder the leadership of the Anglican church is in such a mess.
@@downenout8705Other options are available
@@downenout8705 When it comes to the issue of same-sex blessings under LLF God has already spoken and spoken clearly about this. There is nothing to pray about.
Sections of the CofE are genuinely as godless as the humanists. Prayer is the last thing on their minds, besides dead, meaningless recitals.
@@downenout8705 There is no hypocrisy or inconsistency because the church is not under the Mosaic Law. I find it incredible how often this is brought up, together with mixed fibres and shellfish.
@@kenbeach5021DownenOut here I did reply but it would seem that someone has chosen to block it.
Tom Woolford is an exemplary biblical Anglican. I hope he gets as much 'advice' into the Bishops as he can before they get a new adviser.
As the 'bishop' of Newcastle is female then she is, by definition, not a bishop.
Phoebe was an apostle (Rom.16:7), there were multiple women prophets in NT times (Acts 2:17-18 and many other places) and several women elders/overseers such as Priscilla, Phoebe, Chloe, Lydia etc. Never mind Deborah, Esther, Miriam, Abigail, Rahab, etc. There is no good Biblical reason to exclude women from oversight roles.
Exactly - a woman cannot be a priest and a fortiori she cannot be a bishop. Just take St Paul seriously - or perhaps you know better?
@@francisscott2196it is forbidden verbatim in the Epistles.
The example of women mentioned in the Epistles is a tacky strategy of fan fiction on the part of progressive Scripture twisters. They also deny or warp numerous other doctrines laid out clearly in Scripture.
Incorrect. Firstly it's Junias, not Phoebe, and it's not clear Junias was a woman (John Chrisostum thought so, but Epiphianus and Origen, who live over 150 year earlier, didn't).
Secondly, the term apostle was used less specifically in the time of Paul than it is today. Paul is also quite explicit in this topic elsewhere in his Epistles.
Prophets aren't the same thing as priests either, whether it's in the Old Testament or the early church. There.may have been female deacons too, but deacons can't administer Eucharist and that is the crux of the matter.
Throughout Church History priestesses haven't been permitted until the last 30 years, just about the same time church attendance started to nosedive. Since then we've seen the introduction of all manner of heresy, including the rewriting of the Nicene Creed.
If you read the bible in the context of the church fathers without inserting modern feminist politics there is ample reason to include women in Church roles, just not as priests.
To challenge that you need more than one ambiguous line in one Epistle.
You should view modern life through the lens of Scripture, not the other way around, and Church Leaders should do the same. If they don't the Church will dead in my children's lifetime
There can be no reconciliation. There is no sliding scale where there is a meeting point. Adhere to the teaching of the New Testament or don't.
Repent.
The Bible -is what we have to follow. -The New testament fulfills the Old Testament but the Old Testament explains the New Testament..
I wasn't implying an exclusion of the OT.
@@andrewsmclark the reconciliation already happened in the sacrifice. Basically, in your first sentence you're saying "there can be no forgiveness" (by god for those you deem unworthy )which is patently false. It's not up to you.
Dear David, reconciliation of two diametrically opposing views is not the same as forgiveness. Forgiveness follows repentance, which is then followed by reconciliation of a damaged relationships that cause the rift in the first place.
I am not sure what you are referring to when you say 'It's not up to you' - if you'd like to expand, I can respond.
@@davidsprouse151
I replied, but it seems to have disappeared.
What I said, @@davidsprouse151 , was that reconciliation of two views that are diametrically opposed is not the same as forgiveness. The only way for reconciliation to happen is on the other side of repentance, and then reconciliation is possible.
Forgiveness is not automatically applied, but is available because of the sacrifice of Christ when sought. In the unlikely event of much in the way of repentance over this issue, this then means that reconciliation also unlikely.
No wonder the church is in the state it is and members are walking away.
Jesus said" the love of the many shall wax cold",
How true.
So, basically, the Bishop of Newcastle stepped down due to a Conservative Bishop being appointed to this position? If this is true, she is only liberal if things go her way.
Aw, c'mon Dan - if she's going to throw her toys out of the pram like that, she's never fit to 'build bridges' in LLF. Unless she's sussed it will never have a theological undergirding.
How telling that Newcastle resigns when a Conservative theologian comes into the ring! How is that respectful is that?? What she is saying is that unless you believe the liberal position you're not welcome, has she read the Pastoral Privisions?
Seems to me that for a loss making organisation ...they need to reduce the number of HQ staff analysing the detail - and the importance of political correctness.
Let the operatives of the business be responsible for running what they do - where they do it.
It seems there are too many people deciding what we should believe - while the whole organisation is in the process of collapsing.
Pastor Dan is doing well - but please remember he is called to make disciples - not to be embroiled in theological administrative discourse.
If I may be open and honest...And, please, do not receive this as mean-spirited... you should consider talking a bit slower. I love your content, but English is my second language, and sometimes it is almost impossible to understand what you are saying. I have to play back, slow you down, and even turn on the Closed Captions.
Just a friendly request, brother.
I couldn't agree more, and ike you my comment is intended to be constructive. In my case English IS my first language but I too struggled to understand the very fast speech especially at the beginning of the video when it was completely unintelligible on first listening!
I don’t know what device you watch this on, but there is a playback speed option on UA-cam. I agree Dan does speak too fast sometimes. You might find it useful to playback at 0.75 speed.
Many thanks for your helpful reply. I watch UA-cam videos on both Android and Windows devices. I am hoping that Dan will also read these posts especially bearing in mind the number of people who "liked" the original post on the issue as It seems to indicate that others watching this video may also have struggled to hear what Dan was saying in whole or in part.
I have had personal experience of speaking too fast for many years. For me, it was driven by anxiety.
Just thought I'd share that.
well that's 17 mins of my life I will never get back again! What a load of balderdash! 'Oh yes,' she says, 'I'll join with my (not really) conservative friend and brother in Christ to work to reconcile the two diametrically opposed sides in this argument' . . . 'Oh, wait, you mean my (not really) conservative friend and brother and I are going to have to work with THAT wretch, who clearly, from his past scribblings, REALLY does not agree with me (instead of just pretending). You mean I might have to actually do some work on this instead of poncing around looking official and nicey-nicey. Oh well, in that case I'm taking my ball and going home!' The whole CoE needs to grow up and decide what it wants to be, either orthodox or apostate.
Based.
I don't follow
NOT FIT FOR OFFICE
A response to the statement of the House of Bishops of the Church of England
11th October 2023
"Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!"
Jeremiah 23:1
We grieve with millions of faithful Anglicans around the world at the disastrous decision by the House of Bishops in the Church of England to agree in principle to commend Prayers of Love and Faith for same-sex couples. This action is offensive to the God of love. It replaces his wonderful gospel of grace with a distorted message, blessing what God calls sin. This is heart-breaking, wicked and outrageously arrogant.
Together the House of Bishops have embraced heresy by departing from the clear teaching of Scripture on matters of sexual conduct. As a result, they have betrayed their office. At their consecration service, each bishop was instructed to “be to the flock of Christ a shepherd, not a wolf; feed them, devour them not.” However, by introducing, and not banishing “erroneous and strange doctrine”, they have become wolves. Together they have demonstrated they are not fit for office. They stand under judgement as did the shepherds of Israel in Jeremiah’s day.
Their shame is further compounded by a seriously misleading and distorted appeal to reconciliation. In the House of Bishops’ statement, the Bishop of London asserts “the heart of the gospel is reconciliation.” However that reconciliation is first and foremost with our heavenly Father through the atoning death of Christ upon the cross, and only then, on that basis, to one another as forgiven sinners who serve Jesus as their Lord. To appeal to the cross as the grounds to "remain together as one Church in our uncertainty”, and, as a reason for embracing sin and failing to call for repentance, is an astonishing and blasphemous corruption of the grace of Christ and an entirely different gospel.
We call on the House of Bishops to repent.
We urge orthodox bishops, who have courageously fought for the truth, now to publicly dissent and distance themselves from their episcopal colleagues who are promoting these dangerous prayers.
We continue to pray for our faithful brothers and sisters in the Church of England as they weep, resist this apostasy and trust our Sovereign Lord.
With God’s help, we remain committed to the unchanging Biblical gospel which brings light, life and love to all who repent and put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. May the Holy Spirit compel us to preach Christ faithfully to the nations.
Rt. Rev. Andy Lines (Presiding Bishop of ANiE)
Rt. Rev. Stuart Bell (Assistant Bishop of ACE)
Rt. Rev. Tim Davies (Assistant Bishop of AMiE)
Rt. Rev. Ian Ferguson (Assistant Bishop of ACE)
Rt. Rev. Lee McMunn (Assistant Bishop of AMiE)
AMEN. Chris x
The process should not involve her, it is not part of her job description. It shows that she see LLF a must and doesn't want any opposition. Those that oppose should go. It illustrates that she should not be a bishop as it is her way or the highway. She is a quitter something I did not want in anyone I hired. I wonder if she is worthy to be a parish priest. I have been in too many churches where the priest everything must be done his way and only his way. As a result the churches go into decline.
No woman can be a priest never mind a bishop it's blatant against God's law
Too many woman in leadership positions, the c of E has gone downhill since the ordination of the first woman
Sadly the main casualty of all of this is the authority of bishops and clergy. What authority have they to change the historical Faith? I can read the Bible and BCP and formularies as well as they can, and why are their conclusions any closer to the Gospel than mine? And the result is that year on year fewer attend their church.
The task of trying to bring some kind of consensus in an organisation irreconcilably polarised on a process sanctioned by a wafer thin margin - and some would say 'back door' manoeuvres - sounds like an unenviable assignment in the extreme. Doubtful then that +Newcastle will be the first to walk. Period of uncertainty indeed, with no winners in sight.
Why should theological conservatives modify their 'tone'? I accept the need for civility in discussions and debates, but this shouldn't dissuade people from assertively expressing their position. The modern progressive concept of tone policing is horrible.
Particularly when they go around calling everyone who disagrees them a "bigot".
Passive aggressive apostates
The problem is complex and would be a lot simpler if the C-of-E was Disestablished.
You've given us a chance to use antidisestablishmentarianism in a sentence!
If the Apostle Paul were in charge of this (Welby's position), how long would it take him to sort this out? How many "advisors" would he need?
You said you were leaving the CofE have you changed your mind?
Surely their resignations and statements confirm that their talk of reconciliation was the insincere window dressing many felt it was and the reset they spoke of was merely an emotional reset directed at conservatives.
Same sex marriage, as decided by Parliament, does not involve or include any sexual act...How can that be approved by any Christian, conservative or liberal? And how can some bishops claim that that wouldn't be a change, a very radical change, of doctrine?
I disagree in that Marriage is a sexual act, it is based entire on opposite sexes joining as one for the purpose of having and raising children.
Just because a bunch of Liberals (many posing as conservatives) and neo-Marxists think they can redefine marriage (and reality) it doesn't mean they can...
I dont see much difference these days between the COE and the City Council
Rev Dan, at 2.17 you wonder whether "the CofE may end up with 2 separate churches".
The question to ask is this;
Are liberals who are promoting same sex blessings & same sex marriage still believing and preaching the Gospel?
If not, then by definition, they are not part of the Church. They are not members of the Universal church, built solely on the Gospel of Christ.
Those who preach a different Gospel have left the church.
I grieve for all faithful followers of Christ in the CofE . For any considering leaving, I can thoroughly commend the Anglican Mission in England and the Anglian Network in Europe as faithful, Biblical, authentic Anglican families of churches who are getting on with the work of preaching the Gospel and church planting, without this diabolical distraction.
Never mind the LLF, the Bishop of Newcastle is a lady? 1 Tim 3 and Titus 2.
When you see these things look up for your redemption draweth nigh.APPOSTSY IN THE LAST DAYS.WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE !
Can they be reconciled? You conclude Rev Dan . . I don't think so either.
So its ok to be a Vicar of Bray as lomg as you do it slowly? Glad I no longer attend a church which denies God's word, whether instantly or in slow motion. Scriptture IS. God does not debated with his creation.
In my view it's vital that different factions keep talking. A failure to do so will only lead to misunderstandings. My own theological position on LLF issues is orthodox, although I know Christians with views across the spectrum. Although people at opposite ends of the spectrum are equally uncomfortable at LLF taking place and see it as a waste of time, dialogue serves a useful purpose. Prior to LLF, one progressive Christian I know - who visits churches other than his regular one - thought that theological conservatives were nearly all elderly, which many of us are not. Equally, I was shocked prior to LLF by members of my theologically orthodox church who saw homosexuality as a mental illness which can and should be cured. Thankfully LLF has exposed such people to the evidence which shows this to be a myth, taken from secular thinking of about 50 years ago. My problem with a breakaway conservative wing is that I find it increasingly conflating Bible teaching with social conservatism I struggle to support from the Bible. For example the view that Christian women with young children should not be in paid work, or that the right to smack children should be supported. Both views are within the parameters a Christian reasonably can believe, but the Bible does not unequivocally support them.
Do you not do 1/2hour videos anymore?
All this seems to be an utter mess. Dare I say a godless mess? A significant part of the C of E has completely ‘lost the plot’.
Dan. Behaviour. Listening. Being with. Alongside. Identifying with the poorest. The sinner. The excluded. Putting the pharisees and saduccees back in the place they assume is theirs. Such was the Son of Man. Immanuel. God with us. Lover of my soul. Good news. And now? Synod. Division. Us and them. And the stench of absence, abandonment, hate. Such are the rifts in the Church today. To all - I say love. See the Son. There's your Love, Life, Faith. There's your God. So live. So love.
I have lived to commands of the Church against myself. I died when the Church decided that I was not. When 'they' could not accept me. When I most needed love. When I most needed life. When I most needed the Son. And the Church turned away from me. Behaviour? Show me Love. Show me God. Show me Jesus. Then I will look at you. So that I can see something of the Son.
Meanwhile - forget division. Condemnation. Judgment. You will leak your unlove. Your weaknesses. We all have have them. Be who you can be in the Son. Be for others as He was. Be for me?
Normalising this kind of stuff in church is heresy. This is carnality feeding the flesh...Where's spirituality in all this?
Jesus Christ spoke plainly and did not hide behind courtesy. He said get behind me Satan, you thinking usnt God's thinking. Christians...thank you those that don't hold Christian morals but who hide behind that claim are Christian with their minds and boies they are not is intolerable. Jesus said "if yiu love me keep my commandments". A "broad church" is just cop out! Every Christian must conform their opinion to the teaching of St Peter, St Paul, St Jude and St James who articulate and hand on the teaching of Jesus Christ on human sexual behaviour.
We all sin, especially me, but I feel bad about and try to better rather than cherry picking out of context verses and stretching the credibility of translation to justify what is elsewhere explicitly and implicitly prohibited. (This is in agreement with you)
@@sigurdholbarki8268 god's already forgiven you. Try to forgive yourself.
James 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
I am sorry that vitriol has been seen in the current debate. An example was shown in wishing apposes to an opinion to be iprisoned!
This nonsense is one of the reasons I left the CoE and joined the Ordinariate. I urge others to do the same.
Are there any real reasons why my replies to comments are disappearing? I've responded twice to a comment on something I've said and it's disappeared.
make that three times
what I was saying in response to @davidsprouse151 above is that reconciliation and forgiveness are not the same thing. Forgiveness follows repentance, and only then can reconciliation can happen. Reconciliation is being used here as a synonym to ''compromise', where as biblical reconciliation is a restoration to truth and to God. In the case of the English Bishops and LLF, there is no real sign of repentance happening and so full reconciliation unlikely. Any compromise is likely to be just as...compromised!
@@andrewsmclark @andrewsmclark the reconciliation already happened in the sacrifice. Basically, in your first sentence you're saying "there can be no forgiveness" by god for those you deem unworthy which is patently false. It's not up to you. I see how you might not have been talking about reconciliation with god. Is that the case? btw it's called shadow banning. Happens to me all the time . It's a youtube algorithm
@@davidsprouse151 I refer you to my responses. You are confusing forgiveness and reconciliation.
@@andrewsmclark IC what you're saying. the reconciliation already happened between god and man The "compromise" you're talking about is irrelevant. Truth and justice are philosophical terms. It's ok, we'll just disagree :)
This is a really important aspect of christianity though. God does NOT withhold foregiveness. God only withholds forgiveness from those who refuse to turn their eyes upon Jesus, where repentence is the inevitable outcome. It's a process. I'm dubious about same sex blessings, but it's not blasphemy or apostasy by any definition.
It should
Dan, why are you on here, if you do not bother to engage folks comments?
Click bait. It's why he specializes in controversy
Gods getting rid of the wolves in sheeps clothing