I can’t find it because I don’t play Destiny anymore, but a friend told me that there are Acolytes that have started worshiping Eris as the fourth gods of the Hive. Not sure if it’s from a lore tab or a character talks about it.
@@TeastottHe was never truly in on the whole "Savathun and her Hive suddenly becoming good" hype bandwagon. He was sort of forced to find a partner, and then quickly became disillusioned with Lucent Brood. His Ken disagreed, and wanted to snitch on him, so Fynch had to off him. We have NO friendly Hive AT ALL. Fynch was never truly against the City. He just wanted to fulfill his purpose.
I have the feeling that xivu killing eris might give her the power (through vengeance) that a throne world will be created for her, allowing her to live
And Xivu killing Eris at her peak would make her worm turn insane... They always ask for something "greater" from their host. Is there something bigger than a hive god?... Either the witness, or the traveler... Hmmm
@@DavidUtau Canonically the Hive Gods, specifically Oryx, have killed each other before for various reasons. Oryx killed both Xivu Arath and Savathun in order to gain enough power to defeat the Worm God Akka.
Something I've been thinking about: if Eris succeeds at starving Xivu to death, and then is able to renounce her godhood, the hive would be IN SHAMBLES
@FunniesRS with us tithing to Eris, she (in the eyes of Xivu Arath) is the one who slew Savathûn and Oryx. If we/Eris also slay Xivu, then Eris steps down, there will be no one left for the hive following the sword logic to go to, except the true Worm Gods.
@@axelkusanagi4139wait it was like a lightbulb. Savuthun proabably knows Eris would want to renounce the hive form after the mission is done and with Xivu dead, she is the only hive god left even if she is a lightbearer now. The hive would have to pick her or probably never fully recover again. Bam savuthun has all the power.
@@FunniesRS not all of them. Some hive on both sides believe and disagree with the new ideology Savathun presents to them. Kelgorath being one party who fervently is against the new tacts Savathun is using and all the Lucent hivebearers who were gifted freedom from their worms by savathun, to choose to follow her new ideology to usurp humanity as the Traveler's chosen protectors. And looking at the dungeon lore from last season, Lucent hive were trying to force rez Oryx with hive ghosts. Clearly showing a level of mistrust in Savathun, since we killed her and put a stop to her taking the traveler. Put a stop to their plan to usurp us as Guardians. Proven that they are not superior beings just because they wield Light or Dark. That could be a big blow to loyalty in Savthun, even if she wins up being the only hive god left. So you'd have hive who would still choose to follow her, some who would turn from Xivu and the witness, some who may even try going to the witness directly, and some who may attempt to just do their own thing since they technically(the lucent hive) have no obligation to a higher power anymore should they choose to renounce their religious fanaticism. But the closest we've seen to that is Savathun herself. All the rest have belief in the sword logic, even if they dont believe in the gods who turned their culture to eternal violence and conflict in the name of it.
Dear Byf, I know that this will probably get buried in the pile, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for all the awesome content you make and share with us, and for being a beacon of relentless positivity. You’re one of a select few channels that I would happily watch regardless of the type of content you produced (though the fact that you peer into the mysteries and vagaries of one of my all-time favorite games certainly doesn't hurt), simply because of the positive vibes you put out into the world. In an increasingly cynical era, people like you stand out like lighthouses in the dark, and I can’t thank you enough for that. You continue to be, as ever, an inspiration to me, and I don’t know if I can think of a more sincere compliment than that. Best, -NB
The final line to me felt like Eris does not want to create one, as then it may cement Elsie's concern over her transformation. It is her failsafe against the dark future. It is her own way of staying human, and as a line she cannot cross if she is to keep the peace between her and the last cities defenders.
The lore on this season has been absolutely phenomenal and is doing a really good job of having us thread the line of light and dark to prepare us with their full understandings so were ready for what comes in our next saga. Edit - hired a bee keeper he rehomed the bees
Eris herself wrote to Mara Sov, and at the end or near the end of her letter she says she has to be satisfied with imagining a Throne World rather than actually HAVING a Throne World. So, I am uncertain as to whether she WANT'S one.
If you can see Eris' sanctuary in the sky near the altair, there are 3 big light orbs the shape of eyes that resemble Savathuns eyes when we were revisiting her memories. Idk what they are but I think its connected to something big
Back in the Witch Queen, you could see those eyes at the back of the Altar of Reflection, before Savathun revealed herself. She presumably has been watching us as we learned her secrets through the Altar, hinted at by those eyes. At the end of the Witch Queen too, during her boss fight, those three eyes are visible as you cross the bridge to her main battlefield. I presume Savathun is keeping an eye on us, or at least recording our activity, to watch once she's brought back
Makes you wonder what our Throne World would look like after all the powerful beings we've slain. Would it be possible since we've combined our Light with Hive magic? Like our staff (seasonal artifact?)
I don't think we could make a "Throne world", per se, until we've fully dedicated to the Sword Logic. Ascendancy is a power of belief, so we'd need some Toland levels of belief in Hive Magic and a Throne World to construct one. But it could be possible, in a vein similar to Savathun's own Light-blessed Throne World
Could be a really cool house builder thingy where we can make our own realm maybe if bungie is really daring they could give us acces to a full on map builder where you can completely edit anything and everything in your throne world that would be pretty cool
@moxie6132 What about Queen Mara? She has Eleusinia that her and Riven made out of a piece of the ascendant realm. Or the Mindbender, who twisted hive magic and created a throne world using the death of Cayde-6 to fuel it. It isn't impossible to think that we've more than established ourselves as having enough power to make a throne world. Besides, Savathun has a throne world and still maintains it even after embracing the Light and rejecting the sword logic. The question remains: do we even need one? We've killed gods in the name of War and Vengeance and have yet to find a foe that we can't kill, save for the Witness. Once he's dead, how much more powerful will we become? What could possibly kill us then?
@@innocent-_- The thing about Mara and the Mindbender is they placed most of their chips into Ascendancy as an option, hell, Mindbender is pretty much the first and only Ascendant Eliksni. We as Guardians place more faith in the Light, and so haven't tithed properly to Ascendancy to create a Throne World, usually because we don't need one, the Light gives us more than enough power as it is. We have the capacity for it, certainly, but we don't channel that meaningfully
The Shattered Throne was shattered by Oryx’s very presence?!? I always assumed that it was tied to Riven by the poisoned gift of Wish Magic and the HER being taken was what triggered the collapse of the Shattered Throne.
The way its phrased makes me wonder if Eris already has the makings of a Throne World, but she is hoping that she will never need to see it, and merely just imagine it.
I interpreted this lore as 'she hasn't deliberately made a throne world but she may find she has created one inadvertently when she experiences her first true death.' IRRC that is how it was when the three Hive gods first died. The last line could be her saying she simply doesn't plan to die or it could be like you said, she would have to become fully hive to create/enter her throne world. That conversion may not even be optional if she dies before renouncing her Hive ritual. The lore team is really firing on all cylinders this season.
Oryx brought his siblings back by an act of war and an act of cunning. Xivu committing an act of vengeance for Oryx upon her new sister could create Eriss world or empower her. Also note this could be Savathuns plan already and be the act of cunning(which is still her nature) to empower her as well. Also where is Oryxs worm? His body is still undergoing mitosis. Is there tribute being gained by someone or something? Is the great traveler still gaining knowledge? Bungie can go lots of ways with this.
Just a few random questions/thoughts: Would it be possible to create multiple throne worlds? Could the traveler have used the ahamkara to make a wish to win against the darkness? Is Toland able to return from his throne world or is he too weak?
Some answers I'll try to provide: A) Theoretically possible, but unlikely. A Throne World requires a massive amount of Ascendant energy, and tithes to keep it open. One is hard enough, two would be a feat to make even the Hive Gods shiver. But, Mara technically has two, one being the Shattered Throne, and the other being a subspace from the Nine B) That would require the Traveller to communicate, something it is notoriously not good at doing C) Depends on how you want to define "return". He was eviscerated by the Deathsong and preserved only through his devotion to Hive Magic, he has no body to return to. If you want to consider his formless blob of Light as his body, then sure, we see him in the realm of the Nine and on the Moon. But he can only appear as this shapeless blob of Light, he has no physical form like Savathun
The whole concept of throne worlds being influenced by the forces inside them got me thinking... What if The Pale Heart is a throne world in itself? By the videos and pictures Bungie released so far we can see elements of both light and darkness representing the presence of both. This could also help explain why or how Cayde-6 will be back in The Final Shape; perhaps The Pale Heart is the throne world of the entire universe.
Then The Pale Heart would be the collective throne world for all Guardians in a sense, with our ghosts being the conduits able to bring us back from there.
@@3ndlessL00p Exactly! Another thing I've been thinking about is how this ties with The Veil; it is an entity of darkness and darkness is the realm of emotions and memory. We now know that The Veil is kind of a cosmic backup of all consciousness and memories. This leads me to presume that since The Traveler is an entity of light and light is the realm of the physical, then its Pale Heart could be a repository of every place, every object and every being that ever existed! This could also explain why lightbearers have no recollection of their lives before being risen; they're just half of the package. A body brought back to life from inside The Traveler but no memories retrieved from The Veil.
I believe shes actually had one for a long time, perhaps maybe even since the events of the dark below. Eris having had a throne world all this time is the kind of plot twist bungie loves to throw into their stories
I’ve always thought the notion of a throne world was in direct conflict to sword logic. I mean, what’s the difference between dying and being sent to your throne world to regenerate and come back versus, say, Nokris and his necromancy? I see little if any difference.
@@kylilin Oryx was said to be a hypocrite, and this might be an example of that. Our Ghosts, for example, would be considered heretical by the Sword Logic, but can be explained as us gaining power from paracasuality that trumps the effort they put into killing us, our will was stronger, so we survived. The Sword Logic operates like the Wild West, so Oryx making rules for it is hypocritical by its very design
@@kylilin Well, The way I see it, Throne Worlds aren't just, a free revive. It's power earned and gained by a person and their own actions. The stronger you get, the bigger your throne world and the more you can do with it. It's not really that the person is being revived, it's more of a disconnection, their Soul is essentially stored separately, and they're recreating their bodies through the Dark. Their body connects to their soul in the throne world, their body dies and their form is returned to the throne world, where, they are only able to reform themselves through further acts of strength. They still need tithes and they still need victory to get to the point where they live. Their throne world, essentially, from what I understand is where their real self is. And that is where they die their final death. And one that dies in their throne world, no longer deserves their throne world, and it lies empty. As we've seen through Tales of Toland and Mara Sov using some of these empty throne worlds to recover themselves. They are essentially taking their lives back. Not being given it. Though, I could just be understanding this wrong. However, in the case of Necromancy, a person is being brought back to life, regardless of their own strength. It is being given to them. Technically, the rules for what counts as your own strength as opposed to someone else's I'm not sure. It can be pretty strange, considering how Hive Magic, a power of The Dark and a result of Hive Conquest and growth, technically does count as the Strength of The Hive, and necromancy shouldn't necessarily be against the Sword Logic. I feel like the rules on that whole thing are just really iffy tbh.
@@One_Moonlit_Night in a way we’re in agreement. Maybe I’m following the letter of the law too closely, but having a place to retreat to upon death, regardless if earned and regardless of tithes, and use that place to put yourself back together sounds a lot closer to guardian revival than it does pure sword logic.
So if I remember correctly, Oryx never knew about throne worlds til he died at the hands of Savathune. There is a chance that if Xivu strikes Eris down in vengeance for her kin, Eris may be able to exert her will with Xivu's vengeance and create a throne world that is ultimately a trap to lure Xivu into
Hey there Byf, just want to correct you on a couple things. At 11:47 you mentioned Eramis. You meant to say Eris Morn I presume. Also, you were pronouncing Cocytus wrong, but I understand what you are getting at with what you're saying. Anyways thanks for the awesome content and lore breakdowns. I hope you have great day friend and I'll see you later.
I get the sense Eris realizes she _could_ create a throne world but doing so is the line she's refusing to cross, possibly because that's the point of no return, resurrecting as the hive god of vengeance in a throne world may solidify her as such.
I like to think that the new location beyond the portal in the helm is Eris’s throne world. It’s small like a starter-home because she has just created it
I think what she may have meant, when saying "imagining must be enough for me," was that she intends to die without one, or at least she intends never to make one. I don't know, but I can almost feel a sense of finality to the phrase, like she's resolved to self-sacrifice. What if she resolves to end herself, both to protect us from her own possible corruption, and also maybe out of loathing for what she fears she's going to become, if she loses control?
To me the lore tab sounded like eris has a throne world, but doesn't really know what it looks like because she hasn't died yet and therefore didn't visit it yet
What if by saying "imagining well have to be enough" she's referring to what her throne world will look like. That line comes ever close behind her saying how her warning prepared Mara. Might be a bit of a stretch but it's a thought.
I think that because of Brya's sacrifice, Eris can't afford to die. In paracausal terms a guardian without a ghost is living on their last life. If Eris died and used a throne to survive it would be her accepting her place among the osmium throne, potentially even at the cost of her humanity. And that would be very grave indeed
One interesting thought is if the witness has a throne world? I wonder if the "sea of screams" that exist around other throne worlds is something akin to the witness. im sure it would be a easy way for the witness to live on for newer content.
The way that passage is written makes it sound like she has a throne world but she does not wish to see it. It would be cool if later on down the road Bungie lets us make our own throne world to create and personalize.
My speculation is that It sounds like the throne world is already in place. The comment about being satisfied with imagining it. Seems like some sort of affirmation that she intends to not keep her hive godhood. And is drawing from a sense optimism that she wouldn’t have to die and experience it. It is interesting though, that in her hive form she is said to be a more refined “true” version of herself. And has said in conversations that she won’t lose herself.. So what actually is it she would be leaving behind? And is what she would be leaving really “her” to begin with? Soo much to think about. Im really enjoying the story progression thus far.
Story wise it would be bonkers if we somehow get a throne world after winning/losing or something and have the people of the city take refuge. Considering how many gods and enemies we’ve slain. Granted there are some things to consider but it would be pretty cool
My personal theory on that point is her dying "seals the deal", so to speak. She can play around with the ritual all she wants, but if she dies, and ends up retreating to her Throne World, theres no going back anymore.
The problem I have with Throne Worlds in general us that if they exist due to the will of their creators, if that will is no longer rhere because we killed them shouldn't they just collapse or fade away?
Myelin (or Evaze) did a video discussing the Mithrax section of the 4th entry in the seasonal lore book (not Sorrocide) about how Mithrax may soon die and be rezzed as a Lightbearer. Perhaps you could give your own thoughts on that bit of lore?
If Xivu kills eris in revenge, she ultimately Tithes to Eris,, which would be significant enough that upon death, Eris creates a throne world without meaning to. In the process Xivu is defeated, because no matter how many times she kills eris, she is only tithing too her, even as Eris refuses to strike back directly, which weakens Xivu. When it is all said and done, Xivu likely will make Eris's words not a threat, but a prophecy, and if that happens, Xivu will run in cowardice, her worm will gnaw at the very fibers of her soul, and she will starve.
At some point, we should explore the fact that the Pyramid ships existed BEFORE The Witness's people had access to Darkness. It implies heavily that they're actually built with tech from the Light.
I think that since something powerful needs to die for a Throne World to normally form, Eris saying that just Imagining it has to be enough means that she does not *plan* to die and finalize the formation of her Throne World. Though I think it is a backup of sorts for her, should she die to Xivu or possibly Elsie, it would catalyze that process bringing her back to life in it. Also I think that Eris's form after death is predicated upon if she were transformed or not.
Honestly, between everything you, and Myeline have shared about throne worlds, it's entirely possible that Eris has some kind of plan at least. Given how much of a focal point she's been over the last few seasons, it will be interesting to see how her progression is handled from here. 👀
This has me wondering now, is the pale heart like a throne world then, because it seems to be shaped somewhat by the will and or memories of those inside it from the brief glimpses of it we’ve been shown
I’m curious, there seems to be some interaction between throneworlds and the light that prevent their creation bc if there wasn’t there would certainly be guardians with hive knowledge that would’ve created a throne world by now.
Ya know a throne world should be well within our power as guardians to create and with the hive gods cast out now would be a good time for us to try and claim the ascendent realm. Could just be a way to introduce some kind of player owned space like in the season with calus' menagerie
I'm inclined to think that she is incidentally meeting the requirements that would lead to the creation of one, but without completing her transformation and more importantly dying, It does not exist. It's definitely my perception of the sword logic but the throne worlds exist effectively to allow for the continued honing of their forms; By the sword logic the sharpest and truest of Hive would never die and never need a throne world to fall back to. It's almost a consolation to me in that sense, that creating it would be a sign of weakness and fear unless it was created purely out of necessity in their act of dying. So I think as long as she survives and we keep tithing I don't believe she'll establish one, though of course with that Ahamkara bone a tough fight and a grim moment could change that.
I would be surprised if Eris' Throne world resembled Earth in the golden age but it's all a huge memorial to dead friends who were killed by our enemies throughout destiny. Cayde-6's gravesite is a piece of the Tower with a map with a rock on it. Eriana's is a vast lush playground illuminated by the stars above shining down on a statue of Crota's head on a pike.
I wonder if there'd be a way for Eris to transfer the vengeance hive power, minus further upkeep requirement, directly to Ahsa when she's done. Give her the ability to create her own throne world to rest and sleep in peace after all this time without fear. But, part of me figures that Ahsa is going to sacrifice what she has left of herself to save Eris with Drifter's help and Sloan. Drifter talking Eris down when she starts getting pulled too far. He'll call her by her real name or Moondust, she'll start to fight it more and that's when Ahsa sacrifices herself fully by breaking the connection and takes it all on herself. Sloan then breaks down and the Taken energy starts to take her over more, Ahsa gives a goodbye, breaks the Taken hold over Sloan with the last of the power Eris gave her and dies. Xivu freaks out at Eris refusing Oryx's position and we have a proper battle with Xivu as the season's last big battle.
I think it's a matter of has a throne world but doesn't want to see or use it do to how intoxicating the power she is using is. If you keep getting more good things for you it makes it harder and harder to put it down when you need to.
Rulk is currently dead sooo if Savathun get resurrected in theory, couldn’t she restore her loosens, hive control to the override and sectors of the throne world? That would be interesting to see.
^^ Unless Xivu establishes a contesting presence, which... who knows. But in theory you're correct. Unless the pyramid itself is preventing it... But I don't know.. Lot to contemplate on the topic still.
I still believe she meant she was not going to create her own throne world, knowing that many people are already afraid that she will get out of control. But it's still possible she will die and will be brought back through vengeance and thus Hive magic will create a throne world for her. It just won't be part of her plan.
I don’t understand this piece of dialogue from Rhulk in the context of Hive/ Worm union being the only way to create throne worlds. “She thought herself mistress of this domain you leased her. She did not-could not-appreciate the precarity of her situation. So sure of her dominion, she could not recognize her jailer, or that she lives within a prison formed from her own ego-one I will put to work for you, my Witness”. If the witness “leases” the ascendant realm space for Hive gods, ie gives it to them, then surely it plays a part in the creation of them too?
It would make sense if instead of the "Witness blessing", you only need a great understanding of the Darkness. It fits the overall theme that the Darkness is a paracausal power linked to consciousness. Would also explain why Hiraks has a Throne Would, so do Mara. I doubt the Witness conceived it to Hiraks considering how unimportant he is.
@@legitimadfs1151 but why would Rhulk say that. I think the Hiraaks one is fine the Witness basically “owns” the scorn so he would be happy to “lease” Hiraaks a throne world. Maras is fine too since like Eris said it’s an exception due to the use of Ahamkara paracausal magic, it completely subverts the normal creation process including needing the witness. I don’t understand why they would have this dialogue if the witness didn’t play some part in the creation of throne worlds and also has some ownership over them. The process was fully understood before this is added context they chose to include.
@@legitimadfs1151 we also know from Rhulk and Xivu that the Taken are from the witness and was “given” to Xivu after we killed Quiria. This is a line from Mara from season of the lost “Taken she once controlled. Taken that now serve a new master. Or, if Savathûn is to be believed, their original master. Not her brother, Oryx, but something far older. She fears it. It commands Xivu Arath to conquer the Ascendant space surrounding the Dreaming City... “
The Witness only got the "ownership" of the Scorns after the death of Uldren Sov and the diminished leadership the Fanatic had on the overall faction.@@Moobeus As for "the domain you leased her", this could be also interpreted back to WQ final plot, The Hive were lied to by the Witness within the pack of the Worm Gods. From such perspective we could imagine that the domain "come from" the worms (not entirely as explained in BYF's video)
@@legitimadfs1151 while I understand your point about the Fanatic, that second point is a huge stretch. I think it’s more likely that they just forgot that they had Rhulk say that than anything else at this point.
Do we know where the seasonal vendor destination actually is? It definitely gives me the vibe of a Throne World, especially with the stars resembling Eris' eyes, reminds me of the giant Savathun shadow overlooking her Throne World
Is it weird like, I know the season is about Eris an stuff but I really wanted Fynch the Rouge ghost had a little part in this story in some way I could definitely see him wanting to work with Eris maybe even being ready to Rez his guardian to do so
The mere existence of a throne world makes the Hive just as much "liars" as they claim guardians to be. Their power made it so where they can circumvent the rules of death. It's wild how they carried on for so long operating in their own fallacy lol
If guardians get a throne world they can make a pve pvp boss game mode where the throne works holds what we have been through and choose where it will be set
I wouldn't be surprised if she has long since had a Throne World, she's carrying around an Ahamkara Bone, which unless we are supposed to believe the power within has faded, could very well have granted the paracausal fuel. And for psychomutable spaces, if we are to believe that they at least in part are formed from force of will. The drive for vengeance, for revenge against the Hive would prove to be an adequate driving force for the "force of will" component. I'm not sure what the take away is, from that last line. But, I feel that if she does have a Throne World, then to her it means surrender, giving in. Would she return human, eyes intact. Or perhaps Hive? Human with Acolyte eyes? Some malformed amalgamation of the two? Possibilities, I'm sure she'd rather avoid, would dying in her Hive-morph result in a fixed Hive state should she return from death?
I wonder if the ascendent plane is inherently a plane of darkness and consciousness where people can only gain access to them through the use of darkness. Light can be used within the ascendent plane to create life and "chaos"
This video's discussion on throne worlds and saying that the ascendant plane is influenced by those who dwell there brings shocking similarities to how the pale heart of the traveler works, being formed by those who influence it... Such as us when we enter it to the witness when we draw closer to them.
Perhapse through our ghosts we are pulled from a "Light throne world" not just created through destruction but by the traveler and shared with us to be bound in and revived from, similar to but not identical to the hive and hive god resurrection. It would grant evidence that that's how we find Cayde there and only there... He still lives but cannot be manifested in our physical plane.
Just a quick random thought theory. Eris morn will take the power of the taken king away from the witness and take the witness. But he will remain powerful enough to have his own will. I have no idea how it would happen but oh well!
Going on what the Eremite's lore mentions about Baron Hiraks throneworld creation with Cayde's death if there is anyone to forge a throneworld through blood it would be Eris. Eris is the Hive God of Vengeance and will likely bring one into existence with vengeance. So I see 2 main paths the story goes. The first being if the story goes the way of Eris' death then it will be us that bring her throneworld into reality by bringing vengeance against Xivu assuming it is her who kills Eris. Otherwise the throne may already be made but nothing more then Toland's is created as she doesnt have a great act that brings it to the size of the other hive gods. The second is that the story brings her throneworld the direction of Savathun's that being a turfwar. This would be Eris and us invading Xivu's and establishing Eris' throne in Xivu's throneworld as both are being fueled in the fighting.
I think the Throne World Eris would go to in the event of her death is both hers and not. The way I see it, Eris and her "Goddess of Vengeance" form have a dynamic akin to the Krill Sisters (Aurash, Sathona, and Xi Ro) and their own deific forms (Oryx, Savathun, and Xivu Arath). Even if, in Eris's case, the names are the same, her Hive form (or as I am keen to call it, her "Hunter Morph") represents her identity as vengeance itself, as a true god of the Hive. In the wake of the rituals undertaken this season, Eris Morn gained a Throne World. But this world belongs to her post-ascension, Goddess of Vengeance identity. So if Eris were to die, she would find herself in a Throne World, but forever trapped in her Hive form.
If the sea of screams connects all throne worlds You could travel from oryxs to xivus or maras if you had a spacecraft or transport vessel and Navigation nessessary. Or is travel impossible cause of destiny lore dudu?
in my opinion, eris has "prepared it, but not finished" if you know what I mean. She is ready to finish it at any second, in case she has to make an ultimate sacrifice while fighting xivu. but as for now, she do not have it.
So if the sea of screams has been manipulated by the hive and wasn’t always like that could we say that it’s a dark version of the pale heart from what we know now?
I just got a crazy idea and maybe byf has thought of it to but what if the final shape expansion the entering of the traveler is just us entering it's throne world entering it's own mind that it surrounded with it's White body for some reason and the only way in is the veil that would explain the trailer for it 😂😅
Is it possible that void light was originally darkness? Cause we saw in the final shape reveal the subjugators using darkness powers and they are like tormentors. And if tormentors are of darkness then why do they use void and why did nezarec use void as a disciple of the witness
Honestly i feel like it's the way forward Eris needs it more than anything else shes free but i think asua will have a place there and not lost as everyone seems to think
Can we just find a way to start building a city in a throne world/ascendant realm. Idc wich throne world/ascendant realm, maybe try to create a place in it as our own. Then try to find a way to bring the inhabitants of the last safe city there and build our own civilasation in it? Our guardian has slain gods, obtained the power of the light and dark. Why is our guardian not saving everyone this way?? Is it maybe possible that when the final shape would happen and the witness reshapes the universe to his own ideology, the alternate space (where the created throne worlds are in and the total ascendant plane as well) is safe from it? I truly don't know if we have got enough information about this to even try this idea out, but I just cannot shake off this possible solution.
so, just to take a bit of a step backwards in eris' story how is she still alive? how long has it been since she escaped the hellmouth? wasn't she down there for hundreds of years? assuming brya only sacrificed herself a short time before eris escaped (which i think is wrong, i believe eris was lightless down there a long time) wasn't the great disaster still years and years ago? is she immortal or is my idea of the timeline wrong? if she is immortal, how? just "hive magic" (tm)?
I believe what it is is that Guardians are immortal, they don't age whatsoever even after their ghost dies Eris is just lucky/skilled enough to have not died to anything for years upon years, so she's still here because Guardians don't age That's at least my interpretation of it
I wonder, how long before we have hive, hell even some hive guardians wanting to join Eris, due to her becoming a Hive God?
I can’t find it because I don’t play Destiny anymore, but a friend told me that there are Acolytes that have started worshiping Eris as the fourth gods of the Hive. Not sure if it’s from a lore tab or a character talks about it.
When you think about it, Hive guardians could make their own choices, We have seen a lot from other guardians as well.
@@vontheunknown7982I mean fynch a hive ghost became our ally so it’s possible
@@TeastottYep, he's a treasure. Back then some guardians would WarLords, before they even called themselves guardians.
@@TeastottHe was never truly in on the whole "Savathun and her Hive suddenly becoming good" hype bandwagon. He was sort of forced to find a partner, and then quickly became disillusioned with Lucent Brood. His Ken disagreed, and wanted to snitch on him, so Fynch had to off him. We have NO friendly Hive AT ALL. Fynch was never truly against the City. He just wanted to fulfill his purpose.
Erin has a throne world. Next season, 6 Hive Guardians are going to invade her throne world and attempt to kill her. We’re the bosses of their raid
Honestly a fire idea
I have the feeling that xivu killing eris might give her the power (through vengeance) that a throne world will be created for her, allowing her to live
To add onto that, the guardian killing Xivu creates a tithe strong enough to bring her back from the throne world.
And Xivu killing Eris at her peak would make her worm turn insane... They always ask for something "greater" from their host. Is there something bigger than a hive god?... Either the witness, or the traveler... Hmmm
@@DavidUtau Canonically the Hive Gods, specifically Oryx, have killed each other before for various reasons. Oryx killed both Xivu Arath and Savathun in order to gain enough power to defeat the Worm God Akka.
Something I've been thinking about: if Eris succeeds at starving Xivu to death, and then is able to renounce her godhood, the hive would be IN SHAMBLES
wouldn't they just follow Savathun then since at that point we would need her alive again?
Must be Savathun's plan. Hope she leads them to do good and turns them more moth-like (one can hope)
@FunniesRS with us tithing to Eris, she (in the eyes of Xivu Arath) is the one who slew Savathûn and Oryx. If we/Eris also slay Xivu, then Eris steps down, there will be no one left for the hive following the sword logic to go to, except the true Worm Gods.
@@axelkusanagi4139wait it was like a lightbulb. Savuthun proabably knows Eris would want to renounce the hive form after the mission is done and with Xivu dead, she is the only hive god left even if she is a lightbearer now. The hive would have to pick her or probably never fully recover again. Bam savuthun has all the power.
@@FunniesRS not all of them. Some hive on both sides believe and disagree with the new ideology Savathun presents to them. Kelgorath being one party who fervently is against the new tacts Savathun is using and all the Lucent hivebearers who were gifted freedom from their worms by savathun, to choose to follow her new ideology to usurp humanity as the Traveler's chosen protectors.
And looking at the dungeon lore from last season, Lucent hive were trying to force rez Oryx with hive ghosts. Clearly showing a level of mistrust in Savathun, since we killed her and put a stop to her taking the traveler. Put a stop to their plan to usurp us as Guardians. Proven that they are not superior beings just because they wield Light or Dark. That could be a big blow to loyalty in Savthun, even if she wins up being the only hive god left. So you'd have hive who would still choose to follow her, some who would turn from Xivu and the witness, some who may even try going to the witness directly, and some who may attempt to just do their own thing since they technically(the lucent hive) have no obligation to a higher power anymore should they choose to renounce their religious fanaticism. But the closest we've seen to that is Savathun herself. All the rest have belief in the sword logic, even if they dont believe in the gods who turned their culture to eternal violence and conflict in the name of it.
Dear Byf,
I know that this will probably get buried in the pile, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for all the awesome content you make and share with us, and for being a beacon of relentless positivity. You’re one of a select few channels that I would happily watch regardless of the type of content you produced (though the fact that you peer into the mysteries and vagaries of one of my all-time favorite games certainly doesn't hurt), simply because of the positive vibes you put out into the world. In an increasingly cynical era, people like you stand out like lighthouses in the dark, and I can’t thank you enough for that. You continue to be, as ever, an inspiration to me, and I don’t know if I can think of a more sincere compliment than that.
Best,
-NB
Ha, it's not buried yet, it's still near the top for me
Near the top for me also! 100% agree with everything said
The final line to me felt like Eris does not want to create one, as then it may cement Elsie's concern over her transformation. It is her failsafe against the dark future. It is her own way of staying human, and as a line she cannot cross if she is to keep the peace between her and the last cities defenders.
The lore on this season has been absolutely phenomenal and is doing a really good job of having us thread the line of light and dark to prepare us with their full understandings so were ready for what comes in our next saga.
Edit - hired a bee keeper he rehomed the bees
There are bees!?! Oh this season is super fire now
uh, yeah it's the worl-
Eris herself wrote to Mara Sov, and at the end or near the end of her letter she says she has to be satisfied with imagining a Throne World rather than actually HAVING a Throne World. So, I am uncertain as to whether she WANT'S one.
I think she meant she wasn't going to create one as well.
If you can see Eris' sanctuary in the sky near the altair, there are 3 big light orbs the shape of eyes that resemble Savathuns eyes when we were revisiting her memories. Idk what they are but I think its connected to something big
Oh, I thought they resembled Eris' eyes...the three orbs in the bowl on the offering table, too, I thought they were an Eris thing.
As far as I'm aware the Athanaeum in the HELM is actually a secluded location in Savathun's Throne World.
99% Sure those are Xivu Arath's eyes, you can see clouds around them which resemble her head.
Back in the Witch Queen, you could see those eyes at the back of the Altar of Reflection, before Savathun revealed herself. She presumably has been watching us as we learned her secrets through the Altar, hinted at by those eyes. At the end of the Witch Queen too, during her boss fight, those three eyes are visible as you cross the bridge to her main battlefield. I presume Savathun is keeping an eye on us, or at least recording our activity, to watch once she's brought back
@@moxie6132 in the WQ it's her entire spectral head, this is slightly different. Still think it's important, just not quite the same.
Makes you wonder what our Throne World would look like after all the powerful beings we've slain.
Would it be possible since we've combined our Light with Hive magic? Like our staff (seasonal artifact?)
I don't think we could make a "Throne world", per se, until we've fully dedicated to the Sword Logic. Ascendancy is a power of belief, so we'd need some Toland levels of belief in Hive Magic and a Throne World to construct one. But it could be possible, in a vein similar to Savathun's own Light-blessed Throne World
Could be a really cool house builder thingy where we can make our own realm maybe if bungie is really daring they could give us acces to a full on map builder where you can completely edit anything and everything in your throne world that would be pretty cool
@moxie6132 What about Queen Mara? She has Eleusinia that her and Riven made out of a piece of the ascendant realm. Or the Mindbender, who twisted hive magic and created a throne world using the death of Cayde-6 to fuel it. It isn't impossible to think that we've more than established ourselves as having enough power to make a throne world. Besides, Savathun has a throne world and still maintains it even after embracing the Light and rejecting the sword logic. The question remains: do we even need one? We've killed gods in the name of War and Vengeance and have yet to find a foe that we can't kill, save for the Witness. Once he's dead, how much more powerful will we become? What could possibly kill us then?
@@innocent-_- The thing about Mara and the Mindbender is they placed most of their chips into Ascendancy as an option, hell, Mindbender is pretty much the first and only Ascendant Eliksni. We as Guardians place more faith in the Light, and so haven't tithed properly to Ascendancy to create a Throne World, usually because we don't need one, the Light gives us more than enough power as it is. We have the capacity for it, certainly, but we don't channel that meaningfully
@@moxie6132 that is true, though if it was as simple as a choice we'd see the traveler react to our use of darkness
The Shattered Throne was shattered by Oryx’s very presence?!? I always assumed that it was tied to Riven by the poisoned gift of Wish Magic and the HER being taken was what triggered the collapse of the Shattered Throne.
Typical Oryx W
The way its phrased makes me wonder if Eris already has the makings of a Throne World, but she is hoping that she will never need to see it, and merely just imagine it.
Hello Byf The Hive God of Lore
I interpreted this lore as 'she hasn't deliberately made a throne world but she may find she has created one inadvertently when she experiences her first true death.' IRRC that is how it was when the three Hive gods first died.
The last line could be her saying she simply doesn't plan to die or it could be like you said, she would have to become fully hive to create/enter her throne world. That conversion may not even be optional if she dies before renouncing her Hive ritual.
The lore team is really firing on all cylinders this season.
Oryx brought his siblings back by an act of war and an act of cunning. Xivu committing an act of vengeance for Oryx upon her new sister could create Eriss world or empower her. Also note this could be Savathuns plan already and be the act of cunning(which is still her nature) to empower her as well. Also where is Oryxs worm? His body is still undergoing mitosis. Is there tribute being gained by someone or something? Is the great traveler still gaining knowledge? Bungie can go lots of ways with this.
Just a few random questions/thoughts:
Would it be possible to create multiple throne worlds?
Could the traveler have used the ahamkara to make a wish to win against the darkness?
Is Toland able to return from his throne world or is he too weak?
Some answers I'll try to provide:
A) Theoretically possible, but unlikely. A Throne World requires a massive amount of Ascendant energy, and tithes to keep it open. One is hard enough, two would be a feat to make even the Hive Gods shiver. But, Mara technically has two, one being the Shattered Throne, and the other being a subspace from the Nine
B) That would require the Traveller to communicate, something it is notoriously not good at doing
C) Depends on how you want to define "return". He was eviscerated by the Deathsong and preserved only through his devotion to Hive Magic, he has no body to return to. If you want to consider his formless blob of Light as his body, then sure, we see him in the realm of the Nine and on the Moon. But he can only appear as this shapeless blob of Light, he has no physical form like Savathun
The whole concept of throne worlds being influenced by the forces inside them got me thinking... What if The Pale Heart is a throne world in itself? By the videos and pictures Bungie released so far we can see elements of both light and darkness representing the presence of both. This could also help explain why or how Cayde-6 will be back in The Final Shape; perhaps The Pale Heart is the throne world of the entire universe.
Then The Pale Heart would be the collective throne world for all Guardians in a sense, with our ghosts being the conduits able to bring us back from there.
@@3ndlessL00p Exactly! Another thing I've been thinking about is how this ties with The Veil; it is an entity of darkness and darkness is the realm of emotions and memory. We now know that The Veil is kind of a cosmic backup of all consciousness and memories. This leads me to presume that since The Traveler is an entity of light and light is the realm of the physical, then its Pale Heart could be a repository of every place, every object and every being that ever existed!
This could also explain why lightbearers have no recollection of their lives before being risen; they're just half of the package. A body brought back to life from inside The Traveler but no memories retrieved from The Veil.
I believe shes actually had one for a long time, perhaps maybe even since the events of the dark below. Eris having had a throne world all this time is the kind of plot twist bungie loves to throw into their stories
I’ve always thought the notion of a throne world was in direct conflict to sword logic. I mean, what’s the difference between dying and being sent to your throne world to regenerate and come back versus, say, Nokris and his necromancy? I see little if any difference.
A throne world is earned, perhaps even taken for ones self, a reflection of the deep. Necromancy is life given to another, a reflection of the sky.
@@Chloroxite all true. But when sword logic dictates what dies deserves to die and stay that way a throne world sounds like a convenient loophole.
@@kylilin Oryx was said to be a hypocrite, and this might be an example of that. Our Ghosts, for example, would be considered heretical by the Sword Logic, but can be explained as us gaining power from paracasuality that trumps the effort they put into killing us, our will was stronger, so we survived. The Sword Logic operates like the Wild West, so Oryx making rules for it is hypocritical by its very design
@@kylilin Well, The way I see it, Throne Worlds aren't just, a free revive. It's power earned and gained by a person and their own actions. The stronger you get, the bigger your throne world and the more you can do with it. It's not really that the person is being revived, it's more of a disconnection, their Soul is essentially stored separately, and they're recreating their bodies through the Dark.
Their body connects to their soul in the throne world, their body dies and their form is returned to the throne world, where, they are only able to reform themselves through further acts of strength. They still need tithes and they still need victory to get to the point where they live.
Their throne world, essentially, from what I understand is where their real self is. And that is where they die their final death. And one that dies in their throne world, no longer deserves their throne world, and it lies empty. As we've seen through Tales of Toland and Mara Sov using some of these empty throne worlds to recover themselves. They are essentially taking their lives back. Not being given it. Though, I could just be understanding this wrong.
However, in the case of Necromancy, a person is being brought back to life, regardless of their own strength. It is being given to them. Technically, the rules for what counts as your own strength as opposed to someone else's I'm not sure. It can be pretty strange, considering how Hive Magic, a power of The Dark and a result of Hive Conquest and growth, technically does count as the Strength of The Hive, and necromancy shouldn't necessarily be against the Sword Logic. I feel like the rules on that whole thing are just really iffy tbh.
@@One_Moonlit_Night in a way we’re in agreement. Maybe I’m following the letter of the law too closely, but having a place to retreat to upon death, regardless if earned and regardless of tithes, and use that place to put yourself back together sounds a lot closer to guardian revival than it does pure sword logic.
So if I remember correctly, Oryx never knew about throne worlds til he died at the hands of Savathune. There is a chance that if Xivu strikes Eris down in vengeance for her kin, Eris may be able to exert her will with Xivu's vengeance and create a throne world that is ultimately a trap to lure Xivu into
Hey there Byf, just want to correct you on a couple things. At 11:47 you mentioned Eramis. You meant to say Eris Morn I presume. Also, you were pronouncing Cocytus wrong, but I understand what you are getting at with what you're saying. Anyways thanks for the awesome content and lore breakdowns. I hope you have great day friend and I'll see you later.
Theory after 9:00
Sounds like the pale heart is the guardians throne world which would explain, why Cayde will be in the Final shape.
11:49 Got really confused there at the mention of eramis, then quickly realised who we we're talking about
Yet again LOVE THE LORE Bean Byf!
I get the sense Eris realizes she _could_ create a throne world but doing so is the line she's refusing to cross, possibly because that's the point of no return, resurrecting as the hive god of vengeance in a throne world may solidify her as such.
Good afternoon, Keeper of the Lore.
I like to think that the new location beyond the portal in the helm is Eris’s throne world. It’s small like a starter-home because she has just created it
I’m just saying, when can I get my own Throne World?
Never
We can wish
I think what she may have meant, when saying "imagining must be enough for me," was that she intends to die without one, or at least she intends never to make one. I don't know, but I can almost feel a sense of finality to the phrase, like she's resolved to self-sacrifice. What if she resolves to end herself, both to protect us from her own possible corruption, and also maybe out of loathing for what she fears she's going to become, if she loses control?
To me the lore tab sounded like eris has a throne world, but doesn't really know what it looks like because she hasn't died yet and therefore didn't visit it yet
What if by saying "imagining well have to be enough" she's referring to what her throne world will look like. That line comes ever close behind her saying how her warning prepared Mara. Might be a bit of a stretch but it's a thought.
Thank you Byf, these videos have really helped me forget about my toothache many thanks again
I think that because of Brya's sacrifice, Eris can't afford to die. In paracausal terms a guardian without a ghost is living on their last life. If Eris died and used a throne to survive it would be her accepting her place among the osmium throne, potentially even at the cost of her humanity. And that would be very grave indeed
One interesting thought is if the witness has a throne world?
I wonder if the "sea of screams" that exist around other throne worlds is something akin to the witness. im sure it would be a easy way for the witness to live on for newer content.
The way that passage is written makes it sound like she has a throne world but she does not wish to see it.
It would be cool if later on down the road Bungie lets us make our own throne world to create and personalize.
I can truly say i've no idea where this season's going or the next season
My speculation is that It sounds like the throne world is already in place.
The comment about being satisfied with imagining it. Seems like some sort of affirmation that she intends to not keep her hive godhood. And is drawing from a sense optimism that she wouldn’t have to die and experience it.
It is interesting though, that in her hive form she is said to be a more refined “true” version of herself.
And has said in conversations that she won’t lose herself.. So what actually is it she would be leaving behind? And is what she would be leaving really “her” to begin with?
Soo much to think about. Im really enjoying the story progression thus far.
i think we'll be f-ing around and finding out tomorrow.
Story wise it would be bonkers if we somehow get a throne world after winning/losing or something and have the people of the city take refuge. Considering how many gods and enemies we’ve slain. Granted there are some things to consider but it would be pretty cool
My personal theory on that point is her dying "seals the deal", so to speak. She can play around with the ritual all she wants, but if she dies, and ends up retreating to her Throne World, theres no going back anymore.
The problem I have with Throne Worlds in general us that if they exist due to the will of their creators, if that will is no longer rhere because we killed them shouldn't they just collapse or fade away?
Myelin (or Evaze) did a video discussing the Mithrax section of the 4th entry in the seasonal lore book (not Sorrocide) about how Mithrax may soon die and be rezzed as a Lightbearer. Perhaps you could give your own thoughts on that bit of lore?
1:18 GO UNSUNG GUARDIAN! GO!
If Xivu kills eris in revenge, she ultimately Tithes to Eris,, which would be significant enough that upon death, Eris creates a throne world without meaning to. In the process Xivu is defeated, because no matter how many times she kills eris, she is only tithing too her, even as Eris refuses to strike back directly, which weakens Xivu. When it is all said and done, Xivu likely will make Eris's words not a threat, but a prophecy, and if that happens, Xivu will run in cowardice, her worm will gnaw at the very fibers of her soul, and she will starve.
This is the most logical explanation I've read. I love it!
At some point, we should explore the fact that the Pyramid ships existed BEFORE The Witness's people had access to Darkness. It implies heavily that they're actually built with tech from the Light.
I think that since something powerful needs to die for a Throne World to normally form, Eris saying that just Imagining it has to be enough means that she does not *plan* to die and finalize the formation of her Throne World. Though I think it is a backup of sorts for her, should she die to Xivu or possibly Elsie, it would catalyze that process bringing her back to life in it. Also I think that Eris's form after death is predicated upon if she were transformed or not.
Honestly, between everything you, and Myeline have shared about throne worlds, it's entirely possible that Eris has some kind of plan at least.
Given how much of a focal point she's been over the last few seasons, it will be interesting to see how her progression is handled from here. 👀
"It's been influenced and overtaken by the taken king's influence." Just thought that was funny. lol
This has me wondering now, is the pale heart like a throne world then, because it seems to be shaped somewhat by the will and or memories of those inside it from the brief glimpses of it we’ve been shown
I’m curious, there seems to be some interaction between throneworlds and the light that prevent their creation bc if there wasn’t there would certainly be guardians with hive knowledge that would’ve created a throne world by now.
Well, the Mindbender seems to have made one after cayde was killed, unless I'm misremembering. It stands to reason Eris can make one.
I’m pretty sure that was stated in game- killing Cayde was enough to allow the Mindbender to cement his own.
Ya know a throne world should be well within our power as guardians to create and with the hive gods cast out now would be a good time for us to try and claim the ascendent realm. Could just be a way to introduce some kind of player owned space like in the season with calus' menagerie
I'm inclined to think that she is incidentally meeting the requirements that would lead to the creation of one, but without completing her transformation and more importantly dying, It does not exist. It's definitely my perception of the sword logic but the throne worlds exist effectively to allow for the continued honing of their forms; By the sword logic the sharpest and truest of Hive would never die and never need a throne world to fall back to. It's almost a consolation to me in that sense, that creating it would be a sign of weakness and fear unless it was created purely out of necessity in their act of dying.
So I think as long as she survives and we keep tithing I don't believe she'll establish one, though of course with that Ahamkara bone a tough fight and a grim moment could change that.
5:31 I didn't know you could retrieve those...
You can with the new warlock exotic arms this season. I forgot the name, tho
I would be surprised if Eris' Throne world resembled Earth in the golden age but it's all a huge memorial to dead friends who were killed by our enemies throughout destiny.
Cayde-6's gravesite is a piece of the Tower with a map with a rock on it.
Eriana's is a vast lush playground illuminated by the stars above shining down on a statue of Crota's head on a pike.
Eris’ loophole. Where if she is struck down by Xivu, as it would be a form of vengeance, maybe that would generate her throne world?
I dont know if i would label rhulk as "in control" his pyramid is shattered and he is stuck there being unable to chase after savathuun
I wonder if there'd be a way for Eris to transfer the vengeance hive power, minus further upkeep requirement, directly to Ahsa when she's done. Give her the ability to create her own throne world to rest and sleep in peace after all this time without fear.
But, part of me figures that Ahsa is going to sacrifice what she has left of herself to save Eris with Drifter's help and Sloan. Drifter talking Eris down when she starts getting pulled too far. He'll call her by her real name or Moondust, she'll start to fight it more and that's when Ahsa sacrifices herself fully by breaking the connection and takes it all on herself. Sloan then breaks down and the Taken energy starts to take her over more, Ahsa gives a goodbye, breaks the Taken hold over Sloan with the last of the power Eris gave her and dies. Xivu freaks out at Eris refusing Oryx's position and we have a proper battle with Xivu as the season's last big battle.
I think Eris has one but she refuses to enter it, so imagining has to be enough
I think it's a matter of has a throne world but doesn't want to see or use it do to how intoxicating the power she is using is. If you keep getting more good things for you it makes it harder and harder to put it down when you need to.
Rulk is currently dead sooo if Savathun get resurrected in theory, couldn’t she restore her loosens, hive control to the override and sectors of the throne world? That would be interesting to see.
^^
Unless Xivu establishes a contesting presence, which... who knows. But in theory you're correct. Unless the pyramid itself is preventing it... But I don't know.. Lot to contemplate on the topic still.
I still believe she meant she was not going to create her own throne world, knowing that many people are already afraid that she will get out of control. But it's still possible she will die and will be brought back through vengeance and thus Hive magic will create a throne world for her. It just won't be part of her plan.
I don’t understand this piece of dialogue from Rhulk in the context of Hive/ Worm union being the only way to create throne worlds. “She thought herself mistress of this domain you leased her. She did not-could not-appreciate the precarity of her situation. So sure of her dominion, she could not recognize her jailer, or that she lives within a prison formed from her own ego-one I will put to work for you, my Witness”. If the witness “leases” the ascendant realm space for Hive gods, ie gives it to them, then surely it plays a part in the creation of them too?
It would make sense if instead of the "Witness blessing", you only need a great understanding of the Darkness. It fits the overall theme that the Darkness is a paracausal power linked to consciousness. Would also explain why Hiraks has a Throne Would, so do Mara. I doubt the Witness conceived it to Hiraks considering how unimportant he is.
@@legitimadfs1151 but why would Rhulk say that. I think the Hiraaks one is fine the Witness basically “owns” the scorn so he would be happy to “lease” Hiraaks a throne world. Maras is fine too since like Eris said it’s an exception due to the use of Ahamkara paracausal magic, it completely subverts the normal creation process including needing the witness. I don’t understand why they would have this dialogue if the witness didn’t play some part in the creation of throne worlds and also has some ownership over them. The process was fully understood before this is added context they chose to include.
@@legitimadfs1151 we also know from Rhulk and Xivu that the Taken are from the witness and was “given” to Xivu after we killed Quiria. This is a line from Mara from season of the lost “Taken she once controlled. Taken that now serve a new master. Or, if Savathûn is to be believed, their original master. Not her brother, Oryx, but something far older. She fears it. It commands Xivu Arath to conquer the Ascendant space surrounding the Dreaming City... “
The Witness only got the "ownership" of the Scorns after the death of Uldren Sov and the diminished leadership the Fanatic had on the overall faction.@@Moobeus
As for "the domain you leased her", this could be also interpreted back to WQ final plot, The Hive were lied to by the Witness within the pack of the Worm Gods. From such perspective we could imagine that the domain "come from" the worms (not entirely as explained in BYF's video)
@@legitimadfs1151 while I understand your point about the Fanatic, that second point is a huge stretch. I think it’s more likely that they just forgot that they had Rhulk say that than anything else at this point.
Do we know where the seasonal vendor destination actually is? It definitely gives me the vibe of a Throne World, especially with the stars resembling Eris' eyes, reminds me of the giant Savathun shadow overlooking her Throne World
Is it weird like, I know the season is about Eris an stuff but I really wanted Fynch the Rouge ghost had a little part in this story in some way I could definitely see him wanting to work with Eris maybe even being ready to Rez his guardian to do so
The mere existence of a throne world makes the Hive just as much "liars" as they claim guardians to be. Their power made it so where they can circumvent the rules of death. It's wild how they carried on for so long operating in their own fallacy lol
If guardians get a throne world they can make a pve pvp boss game mode where the throne works holds what we have been through and choose where it will be set
I wouldn't be surprised if she has long since had a Throne World, she's carrying around an Ahamkara Bone, which unless we are supposed to believe the power within has faded, could very well have granted the paracausal fuel.
And for psychomutable spaces, if we are to believe that they at least in part are formed from force of will. The drive for vengeance, for revenge against the Hive would prove to be an adequate driving force for the "force of will" component.
I'm not sure what the take away is, from that last line. But, I feel that if she does have a Throne World, then to her it means surrender, giving in. Would she return human, eyes intact. Or perhaps Hive? Human with Acolyte eyes? Some malformed amalgamation of the two?
Possibilities, I'm sure she'd rather avoid, would dying in her Hive-morph result in a fixed Hive state should she return from death?
how do you get those clean landscape shots? they look so good
I wonder if the ascendent plane is inherently a plane of darkness and consciousness where people can only gain access to them through the use of darkness. Light can be used within the ascendent plane to create life and "chaos"
I wonder if there's any thematic correlation between throne worlds in Destiny and meta-verse "Palaces" in Persona
This video's discussion on throne worlds and saying that the ascendant plane is influenced by those who dwell there brings shocking similarities to how the pale heart of the traveler works, being formed by those who influence it... Such as us when we enter it to the witness when we draw closer to them.
Perhapse through our ghosts we are pulled from a "Light throne world" not just created through destruction but by the traveler and shared with us to be bound in and revived from, similar to but not identical to the hive and hive god resurrection. It would grant evidence that that's how we find Cayde there and only there... He still lives but cannot be manifested in our physical plane.
Just a quick random thought theory.
Eris morn will take the power of the taken king away from the witness and take the witness. But he will remain powerful enough to have his own will.
I have no idea how it would happen but oh well!
We are getting a dungeon next season. Its possible it could be Eris or Xivu's throne world.
IT JUST HIT ME.
43 days till Halloween Halloween Halloween 43 days till Halloween Silver Shamrock.
Going on what the Eremite's lore mentions about Baron Hiraks throneworld creation with Cayde's death if there is anyone to forge a throneworld through blood it would be Eris. Eris is the Hive God of Vengeance and will likely bring one into existence with vengeance. So I see 2 main paths the story goes.
The first being if the story goes the way of Eris' death then it will be us that bring her throneworld into reality by bringing vengeance against Xivu assuming it is her who kills Eris. Otherwise the throne may already be made but nothing more then Toland's is created as she doesnt have a great act that brings it to the size of the other hive gods.
The second is that the story brings her throneworld the direction of Savathun's that being a turfwar. This would be Eris and us invading Xivu's and establishing Eris' throne in Xivu's throneworld as both are being fueled in the fighting.
I believe the Eris is unsure if she has a throne world or not for it might be a subconscious thing for hive gods
I think the Throne World Eris would go to in the event of her death is both hers and not.
The way I see it, Eris and her "Goddess of Vengeance" form have a dynamic akin to the Krill Sisters (Aurash, Sathona, and Xi Ro) and their own deific forms (Oryx, Savathun, and Xivu Arath). Even if, in Eris's case, the names are the same, her Hive form (or as I am keen to call it, her "Hunter Morph") represents her identity as vengeance itself, as a true god of the Hive.
In the wake of the rituals undertaken this season, Eris Morn gained a Throne World. But this world belongs to her post-ascension, Goddess of Vengeance identity. So if Eris were to die, she would find herself in a Throne World, but forever trapped in her Hive form.
If I was a guardian I would pitch a tent in savs throne world for a 3 way battle. If I win, free throne world
I could see a death fake out, Eris “dies” but later comes out of a portal and reveals she has her own throne.
She has a thrown alright...that being my face😂😂
If the sea of screams connects all throne worlds
You could travel from oryxs to xivus or maras if you had a spacecraft or transport vessel and Navigation nessessary.
Or is travel impossible cause of destiny lore dudu?
i imagine if she has a throne world and were to die and be reborn in it, it would leave her trapped in her hive form
in my opinion, eris has "prepared it, but not finished" if you know what I mean. She is ready to finish it at any second, in case she has to make an ultimate sacrifice while fighting xivu. but as for now, she do not have it.
So if the sea of screams has been manipulated by the hive and wasn’t always like that could we say that it’s a dark version of the pale heart from what we know now?
Hunter at 1:27
I just got a crazy idea and maybe byf has thought of it to but what if the final shape expansion the entering of the traveler is just us entering it's throne world entering it's own mind that it surrounded with it's White body for some reason and the only way in is the veil that would explain the trailer for it 😂😅
Guardians should have a huge throne world
Wait if a throne world can be changed by a powerful inhabitant does that mean the pail heart is a throne world being changed by the witness.
If the Mindbender got enough exp just from being in the same fireteam as the people who killed Kayde, ain't no way she doesn't have a throne world.
Is it possible that void light was originally darkness? Cause we saw in the final shape reveal the subjugators using darkness powers and they are like tormentors. And if tormentors are of darkness then why do they use void and why did nezarec use void as a disciple of the witness
I thought the shattered throne was Toland’s hence the name Toland the Shattered?
Solar Soul when. I wanna see a guardian with all three
Honestly i feel like it's the way forward Eris needs it more than anything else shes free but i think asua will have a place there and not lost as everyone seems to think
Is the little planet cave we enter in the helm portal not eris's throne world?
correct me if im wrong, but isnt it true that our guardian has their own throne world, just due to defeating so many beings of power?
Can we just find a way to start building a city in a throne world/ascendant realm. Idc wich throne world/ascendant realm, maybe try to create a place in it as our own. Then try to find a way to bring the inhabitants of the last safe city there and build our own civilasation in it? Our guardian has slain gods, obtained the power of the light and dark. Why is our guardian not saving everyone this way?? Is it maybe possible that when the final shape would happen and the witness reshapes the universe to his own ideology, the alternate space (where the created throne worlds are in and the total ascendant plane as well) is safe from it?
I truly don't know if we have got enough information about this to even try this idea out, but I just cannot shake off this possible solution.
What if eris does plan to die, but not to get a throne world but instead gain a new ghost as a lucent hive?
so, just to take a bit of a step backwards in eris' story
how is she still alive? how long has it been since she escaped the hellmouth? wasn't she down there for hundreds of years? assuming brya only sacrificed herself a short time before eris escaped (which i think is wrong, i believe eris was lightless down there a long time) wasn't the great disaster still years and years ago?
is she immortal or is my idea of the timeline wrong? if she is immortal, how? just "hive magic" (tm)?
I believe what it is is that Guardians are immortal, they don't age whatsoever even after their ghost dies
Eris is just lucky/skilled enough to have not died to anything for years upon years, so she's still here because Guardians don't age
That's at least my interpretation of it
If eris goes against the vanguard im joining her