Probably not, he owns a 350 with more money into it than that bike has into it in Aus. However I do agree they should have just done stock vs stock suspension or put money into both.
@@jakereagan5805 Exactly, Gypsy has like $30K into his bike, customized from the frame on up. It is comical how far from stock they are price wise. Lets not forget approx. $1500 for the ECU and tune, $1200 for full FMF. So the 350 has close to $9K in extras!
that was a great vid guys. My buddy bought a KTM 450 in 2019 and he was never comfortable on it and i told him he would like the 350 better. so for 2023 he bought the 350 and he said "its the greatest motocross bike he's ever ridden"
I'm 54, been riding since 6 years old, grew up on CR 125's and 250's. I've had many bikes as well over the years and last year I bought a 2023 KTM SX-F 350 and I also agree, it's the best bike I've had....by a long shot!
Great comparison! I disagree with Eddy that 450's are better in the start, I ride a 2023 350 with akrapovic exhaust against 30-40 450's and get at least 1 holeshot almost every race weekend.
I agree with you. I ride a 350 with a votex mapped by Chad at XPR and I race 450's up comp hill in Glamis. I pull the holeshot almost every time and I'm on the smooth map. It's mazing off the start.
Love my FC350 (Husky). I find that the primary limiting factor in my speed is the governor in my right hand and the confidence I get with the 350 allows me to push harder. Glad he had some 450 fans weigh in though because, as always, YMMV.
I’ve been a fan of the 350 since 2012. I almost always choose the 350 when I’m racing primarily because my events are 1 to 5 hours long. The longer I ride the 450 tires me out more. So at the end of the day in long races, the 350 is my choice. On occasion over the years, I’ve gone to a 450, 500/501’s or even a 300 two-stroke, but in the end I always end up back on the 350.
Finally got a 2024 Ktm 350, Vet A level rider, 200lbs.. i love it.. feels like a highly modded 250, has more off the bottom stock than my Slip on piped Kx450. I agree with what they say, 450 dont have to ride as hard to go fast but the weight you can feel the difference and it does wear me out faster. I ride the 350 hyper like a 250 and its just plain fun and i can ride it alot longer.
I'd love to see you guys get a bone stock or as close as 07 or 08 crf 450 that's been looked after properly and put it against the 350 and best current 450. Do a similar test to the above and see how far technology has come in the last 15 years. Best bike I ever owned was a toss up between an 06 rm 250 and 06 crf 450. They just handled and done exactly what you wanted.
For me I like to open the throttle to the stops on corner exit. I don't want an explosive hit so I ride the 350 and don't rev it to the limiter unless I need to. I want it to feel super linear and just go faster and faster and keep up my momentum.
Power versus ease of riding .... - I experienced this Road racing in the early 90's, we ended up combining the 250 2 stroke production class with F3 400cc 4 stroke class. The 250 2 strokes were as fast if not faster in qualifying but in a race, the 400cc 4 strokes (more torque, broader power) always won and took the top positions. RACING was quite different to lap times. We have found the same in our Vet series, anyone who goes to a 350 loves it and feels faster (likely is) but they never get the results they had or get back, when they return to a 450. I'd love to hear Keefer and others' thoughts or experiences on that?
I loved my 350, I regret not getting a new one instead of getting my kx450. Never had a issue with starts or hills in south western pa races. You do need to ride it like a 250f
Man i thought 350 would be a no brainer but i agree with all sides Im more confused now I agree with all theory's, racing ,fun ,morning, afternoon, weight, power, tired, fresh .. lol
They never compare 250 vs 350 striaght up, head to head. It’s always 350 vs 450 or 250 vs 350 vs 450 but they don’t directly compare the 250 vs 350 head to head or mention why 350 is much better than a 250 the conversation always revolves around why 350 is better for vets than a 450.
This comparison was done by Dirt Rider years ago with every full size KTM from 200-450. On a trail ride circuit almost every rider was faster on a 2 stroke 200. I have owned a 200 and currently ride a 350, bike is just in the sweet spot like my old 200 was.
Can we do a start test? Is the 350 still got more hp? The 450 a diesel prity much And drag cars petrol/ nitro And the suspension thing was not the go i think same result with bothe stock tho
In the year of 2024 (bike manufacturer speaking), the 350 is almost as fast as a 450 with less inirtia. The 350 is the most sold size of KTM/ Husky/ Gas Gas. Not to mention....if you ride off-road....holy shit, the 350 is king!
You guys said you needed all these improvements but from what we've seen in this video you guys are actually not going that quick your not clearing jumps your lugging around the corners tbh Motocross Action Magazine is where you will see guys actually test these bikes because they ride them hard enough I doubt you 2 will be able to ride a ktm 250sxf hard enough, not to mention yeah I ride an older crf250r but it got the same if not more power than a 2025 model... This was boring to watch and listen to.
Wow not exactly apples to apples why not put the suspension on the 450 why because it would have won geoff walker took about 4 seconds a lap on his 450 with suspension
It's good to know that the most expensive bikes out there only require new triple clamps, complete suspension change. an exhaust and a ECU upgrade to be acceptable......LOL Orange piles of junk.
What do you mean a lot of you guys GO 2 Air Forks? You're the people telling everybody. They need to go to air forks. Or they're gonna hate their twelve thousand dollar motorcycle
i m starting to see the video and almost immediately i am going to turn it off.. i am sick of listening again and again about ECUs and a bunch of "improvements" you are supposed to need... none of you.. and i mean NONE of you.. all the test riders, not only in this channel, none can handle a stock 350's power.. none of you ever managed to do a better lap on a 450, not to say that many of you, you achieve better laps on 250Fs.. even PRO riders... so stop the advertising all the time.. ok we understand... all this stuff is just for the pleasure of tuning and not actually necessary, try to be honest once with the people.. I can accept 1000% the personal preference, you can like a 450, even a modified one, of course !!! but you have not the need of 450s power.. NONE OF YOU.. you need ecu and racing fuel on a 450... even the dirt you walk on laughs... champions you all...
You too are like a girlfriend that picks apart everything a guy says.And and judges from emotion. . I just bet that extra 2 mm on each side of the bars just threw him off and had a difficult time riding. I can't believe people listen to this stuff and repeat it. I hear riders all the time regurgutating the silly info and form tainted opinions from it. Just ride you dang bike
Leave them stock 🤦🏻♂️ your needs are different than everyone else’s and your budget as well you shouldn’t compared them unless they’re otd from the showroom. In this test you basically are trying to set the 450 up to fail. Absolute trash comparison. I have all the Ktm line up bone stock and the 450 is amazing the 125 is the most fun the 250 smoker is a fire breathing dragon the 250 thumper is amazing all around but could use a little more power for the faster more open track but that’s what the 450 is for. The 350 does meet a good medium but the 450 is just a smoother more controlled way of riding which is ideal for older heavier stronger vets not some 150lbs high school cheerleader weight guy.
This is the stupidest debate ever 450 is superior. Want it slower here it is… MELLOW MAP!! That’s not enough GEARING!!! DONE! They’re just trying to push sales . 450 last longer, better maintenance intervals, cheaper for racing, more power for trash obstacles meant for pros that now even you can hit because it’s so fuckin good. If you want that old motocross feel just get a 125! Done!
@@chrisvillarreal2752 me too, and notice I said "feel" not actual weight. I have two 450s in my shop but if I was to choose one bike it wouldn't be the 450 there not near as fun on mx tracks and most people are faster on the 350s and the top of the line pros are not much faster on the 450 and almost everyone of them interviewed rather ride a 350. If you're not really experienced or just not that talented you may not notice that much.. It's like a lot of people can't even notice suspension changes . You go up two clicks on low speed compression and your average person won't notice that either. Your anecdotal personal evidence means almost nothing
@@rickywoods3101 yeah no… 250s for sure will clock faster lap times on tighter tracks but 450s will tear them up on true motocross tracks and if 350s were the real deal they’d already be lining them up. They’re not. They’re just bored out 250s which still wear out faster than 450s still require some push and then not making them awkward not faster. “Most pros” shut the fuck up that’s a total lie just these clowns trying to sell bikes and get views say erroneous shit like that. I’ve been riding for 20 plus years I think I know the differences and can feel them all the same too again the 350 is nothing special or better than what’s already out there. If you want to race and have the emotional highs of pushing a bike to it’s limits to win you race the 250 but if you’re racing to win and at the highest caliber of rider then you’re racing a 450 that requires finesse and skill.
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“These bikes are set up almost identical, except for the $5000 suspension on the 350” lol😂
Exactly take the suspension off the 350 and I bet Gypsy changes his mind lol
Probably not, he owns a 350 with more money into it than that bike has into it in Aus. However I do agree they should have just done stock vs stock suspension or put money into both.
@@jakereagan5805 Exactly, Gypsy has like $30K into his bike, customized from the frame on up. It is comical how far from stock they are price wise. Lets not forget approx. $1500 for the ECU and tune, $1200 for full FMF. So the 350 has close to $9K in extras!
that was a great vid guys. My buddy bought a KTM 450 in 2019 and he was never comfortable on it and i told him he would like the 350 better. so for 2023 he bought the 350 and he said "its the greatest motocross bike he's ever ridden"
Ive had many bikes over the years and just got a 2023 FC350, I agree 100% with your buddy, the 350 is the best bike I have ever ridden!
I'm 54, been riding since 6 years old, grew up on CR 125's and 250's. I've had many bikes as well over the years and last year I bought a 2023 KTM SX-F 350 and I also agree, it's the best bike I've had....by a long shot!
Great comparison! I disagree with Eddy that 450's are better in the start, I ride a 2023 350 with akrapovic exhaust against 30-40 450's and get at least 1 holeshot almost every race weekend.
I agree with you. I ride a 350 with a votex mapped by Chad at XPR and I race 450's up comp hill in Glamis. I pull the holeshot almost every time and I'm on the smooth map. It's mazing off the start.
Luck and skill, being down on power is never an advantage
I really enjoyed having gypsy on here with keefer. Definitely need more of this pair with bike testing, reviews and podcast 👌 🔥🤙
Love my FC350 (Husky). I find that the primary limiting factor in my speed is the governor in my right hand and the confidence I get with the 350 allows me to push harder. Glad he had some 450 fans weigh in though because, as always, YMMV.
Stoked to see Jase out there testing bikes and giving feedback! Way to go Gypsy Tales!
I’ve been a fan of the 350 since 2012. I almost always choose the 350 when I’m racing primarily because my events are 1 to 5 hours long. The longer I ride the 450 tires me out more. So at the end of the day in long races, the 350 is my choice.
On occasion over the years, I’ve gone to a 450, 500/501’s or even a 300 two-stroke, but in the end I always end up back on the 350.
Finally got a 2024 Ktm 350, Vet A level rider, 200lbs.. i love it.. feels like a highly modded 250, has more off the bottom stock than my Slip on piped Kx450. I agree with what they say, 450 dont have to ride as hard to go fast but the weight you can feel the difference and it does wear me out faster. I ride the 350 hyper like a 250 and its just plain fun and i can ride it alot longer.
I've never rode a modded 250 that felt like a 350. Its significantly faster than a modded 250. 100ccs is hard to overcome.
@Runk3lsmcdougal keefer said it feels like a factory Star yamaha 250 .. im saying it rides similar to a 250, just a really fast one
@@robkeller8008 ahh yes I agree
I'd love to see you guys get a bone stock or as close as 07 or 08 crf 450 that's been looked after properly and put it against the 350 and best current 450. Do a similar test to the above and see how far technology has come in the last 15 years. Best bike I ever owned was a toss up between an 06 rm 250 and 06 crf 450. They just handled and done exactly what you wanted.
For me I like to open the throttle to the stops on corner exit. I don't want an explosive hit so I ride the 350 and don't rev it to the limiter unless I need to. I want it to feel super linear and just go faster and faster and keep up my momentum.
What gearing do you run on the 350 please?
Power versus ease of riding .... - I experienced this Road racing in the early 90's, we ended up combining the 250 2 stroke production class with F3 400cc 4 stroke class. The 250 2 strokes were as fast if not faster in qualifying but in a race, the 400cc 4 strokes (more torque, broader power) always won and took the top positions.
RACING was quite different to lap times.
We have found the same in our Vet series, anyone who goes to a 350 loves it and feels faster (likely is) but they never get the results they had or get back, when they return to a 450.
I'd love to hear Keefer and others' thoughts or experiences on that?
I loved my 350, I regret not getting a new one instead of getting my kx450. Never had a issue with starts or hills in south western pa races. You do need to ride it like a 250f
Really digging on my 23 FX350 for track and trail, is it the best ever maybe,,,,, I think I'm converted for sure though.
Those bikes look clean AF 👌
Super clean...
Man i thought 350 would be a no brainer but i agree with all sides Im more confused now I agree with all theory's, racing ,fun ,morning, afternoon, weight, power, tired, fresh .. lol
They never compare 250 vs 350 striaght up, head to head. It’s always 350 vs 450 or 250 vs 350 vs 450 but they don’t directly compare the 250 vs 350 head to head or mention why 350 is much better than a 250 the conversation always revolves around why 350 is better for vets than a 450.
If Ktm would put wp spring forks on everything more people would buy more them love my ktm with A kit
This comparison was done by Dirt Rider years ago with every full size KTM from 200-450. On a trail ride circuit almost every rider was faster on a 2 stroke 200. I have owned a 200 and currently ride a 350, bike is just in the sweet spot like my old 200 was.
Can we do a start test? Is the 350 still got more hp?
The 450 a diesel prity much
And drag cars petrol/ nitro
And the suspension thing was not the go i think same result with bothe stock tho
Which offset did you prefer XTrig 20mm - 22mm or ride engineering 23.5mm?
Kris, did you ride the 350 with the vented air box? Thank you
So Pro Taper bars make you wet? great way to stay cool on the track I guess.
Just get the yz 450 2023 feels like a 350 and can change the mapping to be crazy or smooth it feels like a 2 stroke and lots of fun
Kris. Who did those graphics? Looks so clean and simple
i ride my 350 like a 125 is how i would describe it
I’d go for the 350. I’m 5’8”
180 lbs
Keefer = perfect as always. 32 minutes flew by 👍
In the year of 2024 (bike manufacturer speaking), the 350 is almost as fast as a 450 with less inirtia. The 350 is the most sold size of KTM/ Husky/ Gas Gas. Not to mention....if you ride off-road....holy shit, the 350 is king!
350 all the way
We changed the WP internals for KYB internals and problems solved
350 was great when I weighed 165lbs. 450 is great now that I weigh 210. Each one has their place.
I can't get my head around to pay 11k dirtbike and the manufacturer can't figure out how to make a silencer
I agree with the old guy :)!
So were ALL the riders faster on the 350?!?
...and then all but 1 picked the 450?!? 😂
You guys said you needed all these improvements but from what we've seen in this video you guys are actually not going that quick your not clearing jumps your lugging around the corners tbh Motocross Action Magazine is where you will see guys actually test these bikes because they ride them hard enough I doubt you 2 will be able to ride a ktm 250sxf hard enough, not to mention yeah I ride an older crf250r but it got the same if not more power than a 2025 model... This was boring to watch and listen to.
I guarantee I could mount triple clamps or motor mounts or tires. And you wouldn't be able to tell a difference and you'd be guessing every time
Keefer does a great job!
Wow not exactly apples to apples why not put the suspension on the 450 why because it would have won geoff walker took about 4 seconds a lap on his 450 with suspension
450 master race
You need to put air forks on the 350 to make it fair 😂
It's good to know that the most expensive bikes out there only require new triple clamps, complete suspension change. an exhaust and a ECU upgrade to be acceptable......LOL Orange piles of junk.
i’m here for the ktm trash talk
60! EffinA. Life goals
Ove allways been a KTM fan but I'm a Honda cr man 1st
My gut extinct tells me most riders that weren't at or near the other worldly talent of a pro rider would be faster on a 350 than a 450.
What do you mean a lot of you guys GO 2 Air Forks? You're the people telling everybody. They need to go to air forks. Or they're gonna hate their twelve thousand dollar motorcycle
one day we will have a yz350f and world peace will follow shortly after.
if Jason McAlpine wasn't such a swappa he might have a clue.
First guy faster on the 350, I want 450. 🤦♂️
These things are a copy and paste of the new 2025s that just got shown/released
Looked cold af out there....high Dez in winter with strong wind...brrr
the 350 weight less 5kilo think so
i m starting to see the video and almost immediately i am going to turn it off.. i am sick of listening again and again about ECUs and a bunch of "improvements" you are supposed to need... none of you.. and i mean NONE of you.. all the test riders, not only in this channel, none can handle a stock 350's power.. none of you ever managed to do a better lap on a 450, not to say that many of you, you achieve better laps on 250Fs.. even PRO riders... so stop the advertising all the time.. ok we understand...
all this stuff is just for the pleasure of tuning and not actually necessary, try to be honest once with the people..
I can accept 1000% the personal preference, you can like a 450, even a modified one, of course !!! but you have not the need of 450s power.. NONE OF YOU.. you need ecu and racing fuel on a 450... even the dirt you walk on laughs... champions you all...
Bro exactly!!!! They’re fuckin ridiculous!!!!
You too are like a girlfriend that picks apart everything a guy says.And and judges from emotion.
. I just bet that extra 2 mm on each side of the bars just threw him off and had a difficult time riding. I can't believe people listen to this stuff and repeat it. I hear riders all the time regurgutating the silly info and form tainted opinions from it. Just ride you dang bike
Nerd
Austrian bikes “OVERRATED” ….
Leave them stock 🤦🏻♂️ your needs are different than everyone else’s and your budget as well you shouldn’t compared them unless they’re otd from the showroom. In this test you basically are trying to set the 450 up to fail. Absolute trash comparison. I have all the Ktm line up bone stock and the 450 is amazing the 125 is the most fun the 250 smoker is a fire breathing dragon the 250 thumper is amazing all around but could use a little more power for the faster more open track but that’s what the 450 is for. The 350 does meet a good medium but the 450 is just a smoother more controlled way of riding which is ideal for older heavier stronger vets not some 150lbs high school cheerleader weight guy.
This is the stupidest debate ever
450 is superior. Want it slower here it is… MELLOW MAP!!
That’s not enough GEARING!!! DONE!
They’re just trying to push sales .
450 last longer, better maintenance intervals, cheaper for racing, more power for trash obstacles meant for pros that now even you can hit because it’s so fuckin good.
If you want that old motocross feel just get a 125! Done!
The 350 feels more nimble and quick . Less reciprocating mass
@@rickywoods3101 that’s doesn’t mean shit I ride all of them the difference between my 21 ktm 125 and my 22 450 weight wise is negligible.
@@chrisvillarreal2752 me too, and notice I said "feel" not actual weight.
I have two 450s in my shop but if I was to choose one bike it wouldn't be the 450 there not near as fun on mx tracks and most people are faster on the 350s and the top of the line pros are not much faster on the 450 and almost everyone of them interviewed rather ride a 350.
If you're not really experienced or just not that talented you may not notice that much..
It's like a lot of people can't even notice suspension changes . You go up two clicks on low speed compression and your average person won't notice that either. Your anecdotal personal evidence means almost nothing
@@rickywoods3101 yeah no… 250s for sure will clock faster lap times on tighter tracks but 450s will tear them up on true motocross tracks and if 350s were the real deal they’d already be lining them up. They’re not. They’re just bored out 250s which still wear out faster than 450s still require some push and then not making them awkward not faster. “Most pros” shut the fuck up that’s a total lie just these clowns trying to sell bikes and get views say erroneous shit like that. I’ve been riding for 20 plus years I think I know the differences and can feel them all the same too again the 350 is nothing special or better than what’s already out there. If you want to race and have the emotional highs of pushing a bike to it’s limits to win you race the 250 but if you’re racing to win and at the highest caliber of rider then you’re racing a 450 that requires finesse and skill.