Project 49 - Rollers Vs Sliders - 49cc Scooter Performance Comparison 50cc
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 чер 2012
- Roller weights vs Sliding Weights : 0-35MPH
49cc Minarelli / Jog / 1E40QMB
1000RPM Contra
Lightened Clutch Shoes
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****Copyright Info****
Sound clip is an original work written and recorded by me. - Авто та транспорт
the most difficult video to find, thanks alot!
Hi top speeds are important also. Nice report and thank you! With my gy6 stock 50cc I've ordered the 4.5 rollers. 11 buks. I'm 200 lbs. We shall see. After the salt then rain for riding on Monday Jan 12. Stock new cheap vari. With non bronze bushing ! Eco boost ! Timing stock. I'll hope for 40 on the flats. Quick 46 down the hill ! 2 h.p. at 7800. That would be the max. Speeds for this sled! Then a 10 in. Wheel for extra pull with 2 up.riding. Bill
Another good informative video. Awesome!!!
Thanks again for your videos :)
Excellent Video.
Thanks for the video. I'm pretty sceptic about the sliders. First when i saw them i thought it's a marketing trick. And now i have seen your video i still don't believe it lol. But i'm so curious that i want to test it myself with a timer xD
+Thomas B I am also a skeptic. It doesn't pay to believe everything that people try to sell you. That's why I try stuff out. Sometimes sliders provide a nice gain. Sometimes they work about the same as rollers. That said, since I started using sliders I have stuck with them and own probably more than 20 sets. To me, being able to work at least as well as the standard rollers plus being able to last much longer, they're hard to argue with.
side be side testing appreciated, ty
Have you noticed that sliders seem to last longer and wear out more evenly than rollers?
nice job!
Appreciate the input the problem is the wife gets pissed when I get obsessed and spend all weekend on something like this LOL
It's an investment in the future. The more you work on the scoot, the faster you'll get it done in the future. If the scoot is in tune you can save time wherever you ride (obeying all traffic laws of course).
thank you for the link..Ive been doing some testing with rollers n found a good combo (3)8g. (3)9g. id like to do (3)8g and (3)8.5g rollers..whats the rule of thumb when going to rollers to sliders? is it same weight or u do you have to add or subtract?
+Ian Rhoads Depends on the variator, but most with the GY6 50 add 1g to sliders.
Hi tks four your, videos, I have a Sym Fiddle version 1 from 1999 is a 50cc two stroke the moment I have a stand rolleres is 7 grams I like the scooter to bee the same speed in flat roads and up the hills, Whitch best rolleres size you recommend? Tank you
I don't have experience with those to give you a good recommendation. My suggestion is to get a roller tuning kit that contains multiple weights. They won't hold up to regular use, but they are good for figuring out what you need. Once you find a weight that makes you happy, get a set of quality weights that size.
man, if only there was a continuation or weights until the times started to get slower (or rpm too high) Early days video though! Still like your work!
There may be more info in this link. The vids were originally intended as a companion to this thread : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/4240
Was your stock time on this motor 17.71? So even with the the 4.5g sliders you really only gained an extra .3 of a second over stock?
With conditions as similar as I could keep them over a short time frame the difference is 4-5 seconds for rollers vs sliders as shown @ 1:44 in the video. The first time I did was indeed 17.71, but some things changed since then. It is helpful to follow the thread about the project here to get all of the details. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/4240
Hey is it harder to install sliders than rollers or about the same amount of work?
Same process. Just have to put them in in the correct orientation. DrPulley sliders have a picture right with them usually that shows how they go in.
I enjoyed the test runs it showed me what worked best. I am having trouble finding 4.5g sliders for my GY6 50cc scooter. Does anyone have any sites to buy these size sliders. Thank you and hope to get some replies.
+Ian Rhoads www.partsforscooters.com/?partner=49CCSCOOT has them.
Greeting from indonesia im use yamaha mio that bike matic 110 cc 4t and the pulley have same dimension with yamaha jog 90. The question if i use big pulley koso jog 90 can i use sliding roller too?
And what the problem my bike fast acceleration 0-60kph but after 70 kph my bike very high rpm but cant speeding up. In condition Standard my bike can reach 100kph. what wrong with my bike thx
I use sliders in my aftermarket variators, so that should be fine. Maybe you need heavier weights, a softer contra spring, or the belt is worn thin or too short.
nice video. is there a changes on gas consumption?
Shouldn't make much difference between rollers and sliders if tuned the same way otherwise.
Well that solves it I am getting some sliders, that is a huge difference for 20 bucks
hello can you show me link where can i buy 4,5g for my aprilia sr50
There are different engines in SR50s. You'd need to know which engine type to figure out what size rollers/sliders. Minarelli, Morini or Piaggio.
Ive got a stock ruckus aside from intake and exhaust, im hittin the rev limiter all the time at 40mph. The bike accelerates pretty well for a 50cc and i just want more top end. Should i start with sliders the same weight as stock rollers or go heavier?
I don't know a lot about the Rucks, but luckily some guys on the forum do. Here's some info that may be useful : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/post/320297/thread
U need an aftermarket cdi.
so do weights actually give you more top end speed or just get there faster or slower but remain stock speed less you got big bore kit or something?
1121mdcity jiggy fuck scooters. Buy a bike. I have a gilera runner sp50 and that shit has costed me a fortune to maintain. It never runs fine, i'm always regulating the carb and doing all this useless shit for nothing.
Heavier weights can give you more speed to a point. If they are too light, they can't work against the contra spring enough to get full belt travel. Too heavy and RPM is low and it shifts to "high gear" too fast and runs poorly.
I have a question for you, would it be possible to symmetrically leave weights out? to test how the scooter handles with say, half the total weight it currently has?
You can do that as long as you keep it balanced.
@@49ccscoot thank you!
hi sr is it ok to combine 3pcs slider and 3pcs roller weights?
It has worked OK for some. I try not to mix and match, but you can see how it goes.
Hey man, for "stop and go" city riding, what is your recommend clutch shoe pad material!? (Carbon or stock, i dont know what honda stock shoe made by)
Most of the stuff that I've used is carbon to my knowledge. It works fine. I regularly do full throttle starts and I don't have excessive wear on stock or aftermarket clutches that I've used so far.
@@49ccscoot oh i'm looking for the rapid engagement clutch shoe material, but i worry that the more friction of clutch shoe, the more belt slipped when fully throttle start, and the belt wear faster, isn't it!?
Another question: soft shoe and hard shoe, which one have more friction force!? Can hard shoe damage the bell!? Thanks for your rep 😍
@@chauvoduy9350 I haven't studied friction materials to give you any great answers here. I've just worked with what's available. A good system should not wear the pads or bell rapidly. Both are going to wear over time, but it takes me quite a while to go through a clutch due to material thickness and even longer for bells. Some bells with knurling or other friction efforts will wear pads more quickly. I'm sure you could find pad materials that will wear the bell, just like some brake pads can wear brake discs more quickly.
Depending on how much force/friction is available, you're correct that something may have to give. It may be that a clutch that grabs hard would cause the belt to slip more because of the abrupt force applied. You should be able to tell if it's excessive by watching RPM.
@@49ccscoot thank you so much 👍
What gives you more top end speed lighter or heavier?
People would usually say heavier. That is and isn't accurate. Too light won't allow full travel, but too heavy can't get RPM up enough to be in the power.
What's your opinion on heavy roller and lighten clutch bell setup. Is it good for acceleration and top speed?
You've gotta be doing some serious fine tuning to notice a small change in clutch bell weight. As far as rollers, to me it's not about light or heavy. It's all about whatever weight is required to keep you in the power wherever you're looking for strong performance. If you want to go fast, you don't want to be revving beyond where it makes power at speed.
@@49ccscoot So lightweight clutch bell doesn't give much performance, right? Okey I got it. Roller weight on the other hand is to control the rpm of the scooter, not acceleration
my gy6 139qmb 50cc scooter had very flat spots (almost down to the metal bushing in the center) on the rollers and it ran fine I replaced them with 6g rollers (which i assume is around what came stock.) Very slow boggy acceleration with the 6 gram. So i replaced them with 5g sliders a little better but still very boggy low rpm slow acceleration and low top speed. The scooter refuses to go above 20 mph and it's a turtle race to get there. I put the flat ones back in and it's like it woke up. Revving high with speedy acceleration. Any suggestions? I'm really tired of putting money into this thing to try fixing problems by trial and error. Thank you in advanced.
That's wild. It's usually the opposite of what you describe. Have you weighed your stock weights to be more certain of what you have?
So i just received some 8g rollers i ordered thinking i went to light but as you can imagine it got even slower, bogged heavily and wouldn't go past 10mph. I weighed the stock rollers and the one with the least amount of wear came out to 6g as i suspected. I then weighed the worn rollers and they ranged from 3-4 grams. Any normal person would order some 4g weights and call it day. Out of loss of patients to wait for yet, another roller delivery, I took the 6 gram rollers i bought and sanded them down, got all six as close to 4 grams as i possibly could popped them in and still the same boggy slow acceleration. I started to diagnose other areas that might give me some issues. I Put a bigger main jet in the carb but it just gave me a rich sputter. It seems to be happy with an 81-85 jet and a highflow air filter. Replaced the cdi, put a spare variator i had on it, replaced spark plug, adjusted valves, new fuel filter, and put a new belt on.The thing i'm finding is that it runs fine accelerates up to speed when i first start it but when I come to a stop or it warms up fo a 5 min or so it starts to bog. This leads me to believe that i either have a fuel delivery problem or the variator gets stuck in a high gear. But it never did this with the flat rollers so that makes me want to rule out the fuel problem but it sounds like it's not getting enough fuel, hence the bog. I am truly baffled and i'm all out of ideas. I hate taking the bus to work!! Please give me a suggestion as to what it could be. Thank you in advanced!
I'd go over the whole CVT. Clean and inspect it all. Could be something like the contra spring fading with heat so it gets softer and it acts almost like you put heavier rollers in. Could be a tuning issue. They'll need more fuel when cold, but they're warm enough in short time... like a few minutes. If the heat related issue takes a long time to start, I wouldn't think it's as likely to be fuel.
Just a quick update. First off I wanna thank you because mechanics in my area don't work on chinese scooters. So when there is a problem I spent a lot of time trying to diagnose it. It's good to know there is a strong community of people who are always sharing ideas. I inspected the cvt and the contra spring was very rusty ( No cvt cover gasket) Moisture must have got in. I took it all apart and found the clutch bell and pads were glazed beyond the point of redemption and the spring was very weak. I ended up getting a whole new stock clutch for around 20$, just received it today and installed it. The scooter runs better than it ever did, the acceleration with the 5g sliders is excellent. thanks again for the suggestion. You just got yourself a new subscriber!
Glad you got it going!
Are sliders harder on cheap chinese scooter variator? Also does the color of the rollers denote the material they are made of and or quality? I've seen black. Tan. Orange rollers.
Sliders should be fine. Color does not tell you what material rollers/sliders are. They can add dye and make them whatever color they like. I just stick to known brands. I always buy DrPulley sliders for example.
Hi. Maryland did the Dr pulley sliders destroy your vari. Bushings ? I'll run 4.5 rollers and go easy on the throttle. Mass. We have to run the cheap Chinese scooters easy. 50cc
@@williamhaskellhaskell3162 No, they worked fine.
Hi , I have Keeway Silverblade 250cc, and my rollers according to manual should be 12gram, Can I use 11 grams sliders or 13 gram sliders, Which one should I choose ??
You can use them as long as they are the correct size. Lighter will raise RPM, which sometimes helps acceleration vs stock. Not always. It can lower top speed a little sometimes. Heavier will lower RPM. Could slightly improve top speed if the power is there to go faster or if it was revving too high before. Usually heavier weights will make it a little more sluggish on acceleration. I haven't played with 250s to tell you which is likely the best overall. Sometimes sliders act a bit heavier than rollers so 1g lighter may be good... but sometimes they don't. It depends on the design of the variator. Sorry that's not the exact answer that you probably wanted.
Terrific from you, have a good day man!
Possibly one more issue if you can answer, my rollers are with grease, is this normal or I should clean grease? Because i want to have more acceleration or better start driving for my 250cc motorbike .
Thank you!
@@jetonrexhepi9245 I don't grease mine. Some people swear by it. If you do use grease on rollers or sliders, it should be a light coating only. Some variators do have seals to hold grease around the drive boss/bushing. If yours has that, make sure to use grease there.
did you see any difference at top speed aswell?
Pretty similar, though sliders tend to have a slight advantage if there's a change.
So they behave lighter than rollers of the same weight.
Now i just need to find out if they do in fact give a lower cruising rpm than rollers of same weighteffect.
And how sluggish they are at responding to changes in throttle. Compared to rollers.
If i dont find any i think im gonna make an all around comparison of the two types of cvt weights
It varies by setup. They will respond different in different CVTs/variators. With the Minarelli stock, I can usually do a direct replacement. With the 139QMB I usually need to go about 1g heavier with sliders for a similar RPM as rollers.
@@49ccscoot ok dam. Another thing is the idea that they will allow for more travel of the variator.
But as is, my belt goes all the way down. More space would mean belt slippage.
And my belt wears the variator all the way to the edge. I dont think the variator can variate into any higher gear.
The only reason i have for buying the sliders is the allegedly reduced rpm at cruising, and longer lifespan.
Its just that i can get a set of 7.2gram malossi rollers for 10 bucks and be set for the next 6000miles.
Or i can pay 40 bucks for two sets of sliders. One 7g and one 7.5.
And then im not even sure i have the sliders i need 😅 may have to buy one more set for another 20 dollars.
And if the reduced rpm at cruising is negligible, well.. at least i will have 1 set of sliders that may take me 15k miles before they need replacing, at the price of 25k + worth of regular roller miles.
I'm kind of disappointed noone presented a proper test of dr pulley sliders and the alleged benefits.
Not even the company itself
@@Lifeisawheelie I gave away all of my rollers. I don't bother with them anymore. Sliders have always performed at least as well as rollers for me and have been longer lasting. I use them in every scoot I have from 49cc to 500cc.
@@49ccscoot yeah i been trying to flip the thing on its head and instead try to justify rollers.
Its really hard to justify rollers 😅 cheaper to manufacture yes. They dont risk flipping in odd cases. They can be installed while drunk out of your mind no issues haha.
Oh and rollers are what my cvt is designed to work with. Putting sliders in a malossi cvt might force me to shorten the otherwise stock distance between front pulley drive faces. Whete i normally shim for a new belt and remove shims as it gets worn thinner.
Well.
Guess there's only one way for me to find out.
Cough up the 30 dollars extra and get on my knees.
On the bright side i might get a lot of benefits if they turn out to work as well as advertised.
And even if not, i'll ve able to make a review and at least feel clarified / having found closure 😅
I'll give sliders a shot come time for season preps on the scoot.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. Despite maybe coming across as a bit disgruntled with the absence of conclusive info on all parametres. On any parametres actually 😅
As is, i really dont know what to expect apart from longevity
@@Lifeisawheelie I've got sliders in my Malossi OR. I have heard others say that rollers are the WTG for it, so I re-tried rollers. Worked fine, but flat spotted way too fast for me. Back to sliders.
I don't think they're anything amazing as some claim, but I prefer them vs rollers. If not for their longevity in my experience, then in many cases I'd say it either or would be fine with me.
im gonna order me a set of dr pulleys and do a review on em. with timer as well. maybe... you have a minarelli?
Yeah, this is a minarelli. I have sliders in my 139QMBs, TMAX, and had them in my GY6 as well.
90GTVert okay then, ordering the 4.5 Dr pulleys for my 2001 Zuma II on eBay today. Thanks!:)
hello can you show me the link where i can buy 4,5g for my aprilia sr50
So what can you advise me. Go with rollers or sliders??? Pls reponse to comment i will highly appreciate it
I got rid of pretty much every set of rollers that I owned some time ago. Sliders are in everything of mine.
@@49ccscoot Thanks you bro, my variator is opening only half way and my scooter goes only 30-35 km/h that really slow for a stock 50cc. I feel like there is a problem and the variator make noise also.
@@noobinho8882 ua-cam.com/video/2EjW-iSP-Q8/v-deo.html
What if u mix sliders and rolers?
I've done it for tuning and it worked OK, but I wouldn't leave it like that.
Hi, I have a 1997 Piaggio Liberty 50 2T a/c, stock except Leo Vince TT plus just in case 75 main jet size (I know it is big, but for the engine safety, later I will change it). I wanna buy Dr Pulley neylon sliders and I don't know the right weight. The stock rollers weight is 6.4g. I see here a review(www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/moped-tuning--rollers), but this is a totally different bike (Aerox). I need 8500-8600rpm for the right horse power. Should I buy immidiatly 4.5g or should I try 5g first? It's expensive one so I don't wanna waste money on it. Btw the big clutch spring is also stock!
hggird Your best bet would be to weight what you have and see what RPM you're at so you can make an educated guess. It's pretty tough to hit an RPM target on the nose even with that info. Too many variables.
***** I'm ordered a cheap $11 rpm meter from ebay to find out what rpm does the 6.4g stock rollers and play a little bit with it. It is pure guess so I take time to find the best sliding weights for my scooter. Thaks!
In your experience what would you say the best style and weight would be to use for General performance, a little of both take off and top speed combined ? (50cc Chinese scooter under 200 pound Rider) Thank you, Tim D
Sliders. I use them exclusively now. Even if you forget any possible differences in performance, they hold up better from what I've seen. Hard to say for sure what works best for everyone. Small things can change a lot. I'd say get 4g sliders and then use aluminum foil to make the 5g if needed. Would need a scale too, so they are all even... but that's a good thing for any tuner to have around anyway.
90GTVert I got a new rock you performance transmission kit with a clutch and variator and rollers it came with 6 gram takes off fairly quick but didn't seem to gain much on the top maybe I'll try four or five gram ( Sliders) in it
Naraku
Well, the variator can totally change what weights are needed. What I really like to do is back to back test runs to find what works best. Use a set distance or stretch of road and go both ways to negate wind and mild slopes. Average the top speed and RPM from each way. The results should show you what works.
so.. sliders do make acceleration better, but what happens to the top speed?
Henri Talismaa I would also like to know
Sliders give you a lower and higher gear.
What brand of your slider?
DrPulley
Until now you're using dr. Pulley slider?
4.5g sliders had a nice mid range
Witch wold be best for top end speed
Sliders usually.
you know what? this ain't worth it. im getting a different bike.
this is the only helpful video on variator weight
my scooter takes 8-9 seconds to reach 50kmph
50cc
Nice, but to be clear this has nothing to do with the actual speed but rather a comparison. I don't claim that any of my scooters are fast. I'm huge compared to a normal rider. Just learning and trying to help others learn what works and what doesn't.
im pretty huge to :D
but great video