The ‘Baby Reindeer’ Fallout & Liz Truss’ Flop Book Sales | PODCAST
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- 00:00 - Intro
00:34 - Baby Reindeer Fallout
16:14 - Liz Truss' Flop
32:18 - Meta's New Chatbots
Netflix's "true story" hit Baby Reindeer has led to real-world fallout, but what compliance protections are in place around shows such as this? Liz Truss's book hasn't set the publishing world alight, however, the PR would lead us to believe it has been a success... what is the real story? And celebrity chatbots, another indication we can't trust what we read, see or hear?
Richard and Marina get into the entertainment stories of the week.
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“You can’t watch an old TOTPs without googling to see where the band are now”
I think most people google to see what sentences the presenters got.
The mindset of a modern social media user right there. We are addicted to crisis.
@@ronniepyewelcome to 2024, you’re going to hate it 😊
@@Montycat78 I'll be fine. I'm not glued to my phone walking down the road absorbing all the crap they think I need, which in turn, facilitates tension and anxiety. 😄
@ronniepye I’m glad you’re fine, probably being up on your high horse helped 😊
@@ronniepyeBut here you are, watching a UA-cam video about Baby Reindeer.
Here’s where I struggle with the talk about the duty of care around “Martha.” With I May Destroy You, the perpetrator wasn’t tagging Michaela Coel hundreds of times on public social media accounts. Even if they had changed the character of Martha and didn’t use her actual messages, the real woman would have been easy to find. I mean, people haven’t figured out who Gadd’s rapist is. They have theories, but they don’t know. They did an alright job of disguising that identity, because that person isn’t all over the Internet advertising it. How could they have possibly changed it enough to disguise her, without changing the entire premise of the show?
I mean quite easily: don't use verbatim lines of dialogue, don't make the character look very similar, don't set the show in the same location as the real person lives. It still might've been discoverable but it took the internet like one google search to find her (the curtains phrase)
Make her into a slim Irish secretary, don’t use the original banter
So why has the guy responsible for the rape not been identified as easily as Fiona Harvey 🤔 he needs to be outed….. how many people has this man assaulted since then…….
I search the comments for exactly this..... the industry knows but the industry covers it up...
@@skippy6462it’s allegedly Garry Reich
Because we don’t like punishing men for their bad behaviour, only women.
@@samcad-ho3ze I heard it's one of the Peep Show writers
They are talking about public outing, not legal action. His identity is known, just not by the public at large.
Marina has great points but really needs to learn the concept of conversation. Whoever you're speaking with, whatever you're discussing; if they don't interrupt your monologues then give them the same respect.
I wish Richard was allowed to talk more
I worked on Baby Reindeer on the Edinburgh unit (it was only a few days) and I had no idea it was about a stalker. However as you said the show it was based on was already well known. Fun fact it was filmed in Edinburgh during a bin strike.
How could it be disguised? The information was already out there. The success of the show simply brought many eyes to the story.
Change the race, nationality, body type of the character.
That would change nothing since even the smallest amount of sleuthing would reveal the truth. And completely fictional characters get the actors similar attention if the fans do not like the character for example...
Exactly.
Guys remember he made monkey see money do which was the same thing baby reindeer was that on a bigger scale so of course people wanted to play vigilante
A few people saying they never google stuff. I remember a time when every single film or old tv programme would be sidelined by someone saying, who's that, what have they been in, wasn't he or she married to so and so etc. Telly was like that for all of us in the 60's and 70's even more maddening before the advent of videos you could rewind/subtitles if you missed dialogue. You can especially get mixed up with character actors that appeared in a lot of old British films. There used to be a certain pleasure in a name that had been on the tip of your tongue suddenly occurring to you. But sometimes you spent most of the film/prog agonising. Google dispels that in an instant. Absolutely I google TOTP being a bit of a music nerd. One hit wonders especially, it's surprising how many are still going, carving out a career on the chicken in a basket circuit. Shades of Les McQueen about some of them, 'It's a shit business'.
If you ever watch a celebrity show, is googling handy to see who the people actually are?
Also are they still alive or dead ? My mother was a bit morbid "he / she is dead now . When actually some were not. But couldn't instantly Google them to check? Sadly My mother is dead now .
Poor Richard preparing to talk about Baby Reindeers success and then Marina goes off on a tangent.
Well of course the BBC would have covered up the identities better!
Fargo had the best use of "This is a true story"
I feel it is disheartening to blame the producers of a show for how viewers behave. The problem is with viewers, with all of us, not the storytellers.
Discovered the Liz Truss book in the Fantasy & Science Fiction section of Waterstones
Na, it's just an opinion piece 🙂
I'm confused as I thought that In Liz we NEVER Trusted was the actress in Baby Reindeer wearing a padded suit
The Liz Truss book thing is astonishing to me as an American. Over here, conservative donors use books by conservative politicians as a way to make massive donations while skirting donation laws. Politicians or conservative judges will drop a book and then some org funded by the Kochs or the Mercers will buy hundreds of thousands of copies.
I don't know if this is illegal there in the UK, but I'm guessing she thought she'd get some Koch brother purchases on that book.
I think the same thing happens with here, and not just with Conservatives. Massive fees for after dinner speeches, huge advances for memoirs no one in their right mind would bother to read, consultancies given to people with a track record of nothing but disaster, people who entered politics barely earning a living but leaving as multi-millionaires. And just when we think we have seen the last of them, back they come as heads of useless but apparently well-funded international organisations.
It's all politicians, not just conservatives. The pigs all eat from the same trough.
38:40 Marina prognosticating about a dystopian future which arrived about ten years ago.
I've been reading the science fiction series 'Hyperion Cantos' by Dan Simmons which, like many novels of that genre, is eerily prescient regarding the development of AI - over thirty years before its emergence in modern culture. Despite taking the concept to its extremes (quite brilliantly I should add) the underlying themes distil down to "be careful what you wish for" and "complacency is the mother of disaster"!
I literally just finished the second novel and it’s funny you summed it up so well
Please don't give Liz Truss any air time, she cost the UK economy £billions!
Or she was stitched up
In fairness to Richard Gadd.. if you listened to the interview she did, she really didn’t think she looked anything close to Jessica Gunning😅
yep , nothing like her at all !
Truss has no shame, believes herself to be totally right and that she’ll be vindicated. Totally barking.
The example of Black Box is a double layer of impersonation…
The original release has a sample of Loretta Holloway singing on the tune 'Love Sensation'
but this was then replaced by Heather Small ( of M People fame) re-recording the sampled vocal line due to legal action by the original copyright owners
which was then fronted for mimed performances by Katrin Quinol
Your story about Baby Reindeer reminded me of why they have the "all people are in this work fictious" disclaimer. That is because of a lawsuit by Princess Irina Alexandrovna and Prince Felix of Russia against MGM over a film. They also sued CBS over a different broadcast but lost. More info on Wikipedia.
"I have a friend who is a producer; let's call him Richard" Is that libel?
I love how this lady says without irony that in America they can say whatever they like "unlike here"
As if it's in any way a good thing we have to walk on eggshells in this broken country and it's universally agreed upon that it's a good thing. Insanity
There are consequences.
First time watching. Loved it! Glad to have found this excellent real content.
“…a guy called Daniel Dennett…” 🤣🤣🤣 I want to start seeing this wording on every Dennett citation. Love it! 🤣🤣🤣
For all of the deserved attention and awards Jessica Gunning gets for her role in Baby Reindeer, she also put in a great performance in the film Pride as Siân James... An altogether more uplifting representation of humanity.
I love this programme, but Richard and Marina please could you sort out the advert breaks so that they are between the chunks rather than randomly midword!
Other channels do this...
If your like many of us these days then youtube is maybe your main source of streaming. So il suggest you realise that and pay for premium (no I don't work here), you also get a great music app every bit as good as Spotify which you can cancel as I did.
This reaction to the show has to remind you of the black mirror episode “Joan is awful”
These two are top tier podcasters and this is my first time on this channel and I will be back soon 💯 keep up the good work
Love the podcast, but wish you'd fix the audio. It's always lower than any other video on UA-cam, so I have to constantly adjust the volume whenever I watch one of your videos. Minor annoyance, but keep up the good work.
I see this being a significant issue if the podcast were 4 minutes long rather than 44, but adjusting volume once or twice an hour hardly seems backbreaking
Am I the only one conditioned to sing Doo doo dee doo doo after someone says phenomenon? Had to do it a bit this week XD
You are not alone. It's obligatory in our house.
Oh me me me 😂😂😂 and also my kids 😂😂😂
Good show. Thanks!
I love this podcast - and love that you filmed it as well. Normally I’ll watch you guys, but don’t want to loose 3-5 minutes of your podcast! Why don’t you show all of the talk like you do on audio podcast? Why is it shorter here on YT?
They really shoot on film? That seems crazy! There really should not be a good reason to do it on film these days, the digital cameras have surpassed film in the last 10 years-ish...
It’s very unhinged that anyone can defend this woman
Marina STOP interrupting when Richard speaks, he doesn't talk over you so stop talking over him and interrupting him.......
We have the best new drinking game, every time you hear “YA” from Marina take a sip. We tried taking a shot but nobody made it past the first five minutes!
I hope that there were plenty of emotional support counsellors on the set to help with any possible PTSD.
So the onus was on Richard Gadd to materially change the facts/ characters and re write his series to protect the identity of his stalker and his rap#st? Who Marina just referred to as "really vulnerable people" while explaining that this type of thing would never have been allowed to happen on good ole aunty beeb🙄 in stark contrast to horrible for profit Netflix.
Honestly I feel like I need a shower after listening to this.
The onus is on Netflix
The honus is on the people who distribute it, that would be Netflix. That's how the law works.
Fiona has not proved Martha is her
Thank you !
The show really was almost gruelling to watch. I wanted to compare the actor to the person and was amazed when I read he played himself. I thought he was brutally honest he show what he went through when he was “with “ the tv producer
I really don’t understand why Netflix choose to put this is a true story and not based on a true story
She does seem relentless in her behaviour
It's either patient zero of Netflix compliance, or patient zero in terms of fictionalised stories targeted at real people and embraced by the masses as true, for sheer entertainment value. The truth no longer seems to matter.
I’m in hospital in Australia and the nurse asked what I was watching. We had a passionate convo about baby reindeer and what’s happening around it. 2 other nurses have talked to me about today. Big in Oz! Hope things work out for the writer Chappy.
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion on this show and its ‘aftermath’.
Actors playing a character that the fans do not like get even more unwanted toxic fandom... It literally has zero to do with the show and the creators and entirely caused by poor parenting...
Is something wrong with the camera on Marina or are they just cutting out from the wide shot camera?
Yes, focus is pulled on the background not the foreground so her face is out it focus. She is also sitting too profile. Camera setup for this podcast is actually excellent compared to most podcasts. Plus, very entertaining and educational show.
An American agent called Javelin. I can't quite see the point in that.
I wonder where the BBC Compliance people were when they ran the story about Cliff Richard on the news. That turned out to be totally false but hey ho.
What has the BBC news got to do with Baby Reindeer?
@@jasonchambers4495 Nothing, but surely the BBC would only have one compliance team which should check on either factual or fictional content that they release?
“Compliance” at BBC and ITV would definitely have prevented this from happening…just look at Jimmy Saviles career
Mic drop 👌 Honestly everything about the way these two presented this made me viscerally angry.
Hopefully Richard will 'do better' as the buzzword of today goes to protect the identities of his stalker and rapist who, as Marina tells us, are "really vulnerable" people 🙄
Indeed, they are excellent when it comes to protecting perpetrators.
I’m glad it wasn’t just me that had the same thought. Closing ranks, everyone scared to name him potentially saving others from being abused.
Savile
You are conflating to different issues.
Listening to this on iPad, watching snooker on TV. Multitasking god!😂😂
After reading the thumbnail, I thought this would be about how stalking will be taken much more serious from now on . Not about protecting te perpetrators.
Marina never stops talking..her bullet point shouts are more suited for breaking news and I haven't a clue what she's saying. Let Richard speak please. He's calm and telling a story for grown ups that's very pleasant.
Self published book Just Stab Me Now by youtuber Jill Bearup, who self published it in february (so no advance there!), has sold five figures worth of books, earning her about £50K.
Reckon Liz has a ways to go before she outsells the world bestriding colossus of a slip of a girl from northern ireland banging on about corsets and swordfights.
two things to get from this information:
1. ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa go crash an economy liz.
2. Buy Jill's book.
Jill Bearup is such a fantastic UA-camr, she deserves so much praise, I agree!
Fallout was in the title. I misunderstood and thought they were going to discuss Fallout. Would be interesting to hear a discussion, given Bethesda must have made a killing in additional games revenue from the TV series.
No must about it, fallout 4 and fallout 76 have shot us the charts again (which is a shame with fallout 76 considering what a mess its launch was)
Same
Me too! LOL
"Did she cure loneliness?"
hahahahahahahaha that was brilliant
I definitely think Martha needed a different profession and backstory and the joke about the curtains needed to be changed. It's possible she would have outed herself anyway judging by her current behaviour. It's really sad that she's now being exploited by the likes of Piers Morgan. She seems to be a far less sympathetic person than she was portrayed as in the series but the fact remains that she's vulnerable and unwell and if there are really reporters outside her house then it's clear that the tabloid media have learnt nothing and the legal system has made no changes to regulate their activity. She shouldn't be in the public eye. The rapist on the other hand needs to face some kind of consequences legal, professional or otherwise and it's CRAZY that people are still protecting him while the less culpable abuser is thrown to the wolves
How could Gadd and Netflix have stopped this happening though? To totally change everything about his story and make it fake? And “Martha” was found as she stalked him and his girlfriend online. Many posts still exist.
Want it find out who stalked him? Look back and see who stalked him.
Netflix could have changed curtains to wallpaper, Diet Coke to gin and tonic, Camden to Brighton, stalking an MP to stalking a footballer. All of those things made ‘Martha’ easily identifiable online. It wouldn’t have made the story fake to make small changes, especially since there were much bigger changes such as the non existent viral video of a stage breakdown and the prison sentence which were not true.
@@Stacey-111 nobody found her because of these details. They found her by looking for the woman who stalked him online.
@daviebananas1735 how dumb are you? How do you think the FIRST people that found her, found her? Those details. That is how. 😅jesus. The Internet. Proving humanity as stupid as it seems one youtube comment at a time.
They could have said it’s fiction…and not based on a true story
@@jacquelinearcher1158 So a victim of abuse is again forced to pretend it didn’t happen. To protect the perpetrator. I feel like this is not how we should be thinking.
plse talk about clive james..loved his reviews back in the day,,he educated me....
The talk about AI singles. Maybe Richard and Marina need to look into Hatsune Miku. Granted it's Vocaloid not fully AI, but there are concerts that literally consist of vocaloid holograms performing on stage with an IRL band and people GO NUTS for this sort of stuff. A sea of glowsticks as people scream along to the 'Po Pi Po' song.
I'm such a knob it was Lolita Holloway not Lorretta only know that as I a'm Nicky Holloway lol only having giggle, love what you do.: )
Liz Truss should give every penny (cos she is not earning pounds) earned from her book sale back to the British public as compensation for the havoc she wreaked on the financial markets from her brief tenure as PM.
We never sit with our phone when watching stuff. We look stuff up maybe twice a year, probably similar to what might happen 20 years ago...
This is a dead good podcast. I learn loads.
You sound dense.
@@karmpuscookie I am
@@michaeldunne3379love it 😂
I don't think you can people 'assumed' something happened when it didn't. Sounds to me that they were told something actually happened. Given everything happens under the line of "This is a true story".
The TV industry always protects its own. This week Osman's mate and regular guest Dane Baptiste was investigated after he sent out anti-Semitic death threats to a female comedian. Not even a peep from Osman about it. Just imagine how much he would be going to town if a Tory MP had done the same thing.
And if Baptiste was a white comedian you’d be telling everyone that it was just a joke and to get a sense of humour.
See, I can also make up some sh*t based on something that didn’t happen.
Why people like you always crying about race. U want to be a victim so bad 😂 absolutely nothing to do with race @@KristianaCembre
@@KristianaCembrehe’d be cancelled if he was white…Shame you ignore it,
I love that AI turned Marina Northern Irish for a moment which is a real testiment to the quality of this tech. I do share Marina's fear for AI and how manipulative it will be in the future. Love the show.
Liz Truss took two week to write her book. That long?
That’s what she was doing during her time in office!! 😂
And she hasn’t got it in audio format
People should not have hunted this woman down. Whatever she may or may not have done does not mean it's open season on harrassing this woman.
this is what the media always does to women.
She craves and thrives on attention so more than likely she is enjoying every minute of her “fame”.
@@sandyaronds5753 How do you know?
The mere choice to turn this into entertainment and introduce fiction, leading to viewers confusing the character and real person, was immoral. People should have more sense and realise they don't know what was fictional. But of course they don't.
@@sandyaronds5753she is not all there. She’s unwell and if he was really truly frightened of her he would never have led her on and manipulated her. His crap made-up pop psychology to excuse it doesn’t cut it.
I had a college friend who is now a celebrity. One of his first jobs was for Rolf Harris. He would reply to all the fan mail, and even draw the little "Rolfaroo" signature at the bottom. So this sort of thing is not entirely new.
Saying "this is a true story" is not a legal statement.
I'm not proud!
Yes it is. She is not a public figure. That one sentence is what will make them liable.
Sure they didn't publish her personal details but they did a sloppy job at making it obvious to who it was.
Every thing a business does is a legal matter.
Minor correction. Barack Obama published dreams from my father in 1995 when he was only a few years out of Harvard law and before he was elected as to the state senate. So you can't really describe it as a political book in the same way as Truss's or Johnson's. It was republised a few times including after he was elected president.
I have to say 'Baby Reindeer' started really well but the last couple of episodes were extremely dull. Netflix seem to specialise in tv series that start with a bang but end with a whimper. Even worse is when they have no conclusion, to tease that there may be a second season, but then there isn't. It leaves you feeling exploited.
In life there is no conclusion, everything doesn't get tied up in neat little knots. Baddies don't get their comeuppance, good guys don't win, stories don't end.
@@BongoBaggins That's true of course but a Netflix TV series isn't real life, it is a dramatised narrative. Mosts narratives end with a resolution, my point is that Netflix don't seem to care too much about that, as long as they have secured your subscription.
@@PWMozeYeah I'm no fan of Netflix, or indeed Gadd. So many stupid decisions, I started to doubt whether the story was true at all.
I didn’t feel that way about the final two episodes but I can appreciate that they weren’t as explosive. I don’t think it’s part of a wider con I think it’s just that most Netflix shows do run out of steam at the end and so did this one for you.
@@BongoBaggins We literally all have the same conclusion in our lives, we die, I'm not sure what planet you live on.
Wow i didnt know daniel dennet died
The audience doing the stalking are the ones responsible for any trouble. A show does not have to be based in reality for this kind of toxic fandom to happen... The most fantastical shows with no connection to real persons still will get this kind of toxic fandom, maybe aimed at the actor playing a character that the fans do not like.... Completely irrational behavior in .01% of the fans happens no matter what the creators intend or how they handle things...
Again! Actors get the same stalking toxic fandom stuff just because fans do not like the character they play!! There is no amount of being careful on the part of the creators that would help this situation
Netflix is to blame not Gadd!
All good stuff but here is the thing with these two luvvies - they are poking at Netflix for not handling this properly. But Mariana knows full well (but conveniently forgets to mention) that Netflix commissioned a production company to make this show. A company that is owned by BBC studios - her favourite left wing state broadcaster and employer of her darling hubby. So why not point the finger at them ?
I’m very much with Daniel Dennett on AI copies of humans. I’d also trust his take on its impact on us more than Zuckerberg’s.
Hang on, have you not already said that Fargo leads with ‘this is a true story’?😢
If you remove friends, family, colleagues, journalists and reviewers she sold like 2
Ah no, we don't all feel compelled to google everything.
"We are Back On Thursday" = We are BOT ... Proof, if there was ever any doubt, that they are AI ! (Scary Stuff indeed)
Based on a true story for me is like based on a book, maybe a few character names and locations are the same and a couple of plot points, but it’s definitely not 1 to 1, and even documentaries aren’t necessarily the truth, there are so many ways of viewing something so I trust nothing
How depressiing to know there are over two thousand people in this country willing to fork out good money for a book by Liz Truss. It wasn't till I saw her hawking herself and her book in the U.S. that I finally realised how truly awful the woman is.
It seems like any money LT makes on that book will be from back of room sales at her appearances.
That's what all authors do and nobody shills their book more than Osman,
100% correct! This story isn’t over. Lawsuits are coming. I don’t believe either person involved in this story, lies everywhere.
Her
Scarlett Johnson AI, we are 5yrs away from mass individualism AI partners.
Let’s just ban “this is a true story”, you sung the praises of Mr.Bates vs. The Post Office, but that also includes large amounts of dramatisation about things that the writers couldn’t possibly know about. I think that presenting dramas as documentaries is very risky, almost as risky as presenting a documentary as full facts.
But Mr Bates Vs The Post Office had a disclaimer at the start of each episode that said while it was a true story, certain scenes and dialogue had been fictionalised for TV but based on extensive research. It's completely different to a single statement that says "this is a true story" as per Baby Reindeer, and doesn't even hint at anything being added or dramatised along the way.
Actors playing fictional roles (could be made up to look like an alien) get the same or worse toxic fandom just because .001% of the audience dislikes the character and are crazy enough to come after the actor... There is nothing that creators can do to cure these crazy people. Their parents probably failed hard when raising them and fine tuning a show will.never make up for that lack of years of proper parenting...
29:45 She’s not “inspo”, she’s delusional.
The 19th century roman à clef is not dead, just changed its format...
...and Liz Truss is the Eddie the Eagle of the post-pandemic?
the talk about "books selling out" not necessarily being a mark of success is very interesting, Graham linehan had very low sales for his memoir last year and was very loud about reprints and "selling out at Amazon", to try and convince people that his book was actually very successful. Like Liz Truss, his whole message relies on "everyone agrees with me but they are too scared to speak up because WOKE". so maybe the "Amazon ran out" defence will become more common for right wing memoir/manifestos?
There hasn't been private investment in an A.I. generated No 1 song because recorded music completely lost it's value.
Not taking any responsibility for your actions. Great example for your children
Gosh, this got a bit heavy.
This is my new favourite video podcast.
So not baby reindeer fallout cross over ?😅
Why is no one in the industry outting this abuser then??? Are you all protecting him so he can keep abusing other people? That’s sick!
Yeah, it's messed up how they know who the abuser is but keep protecting him for whatever cowardly reason. They're absolutely spineless.
It’s for legal reasons.
Why don't u ask them?
interestin..this woman seems to diss anything thats big on net/prime......what has she ever done???
Podcasts are vulnerable but not video podcasts... :)
funny - how i always thought hyde looks like bret anderson's sister.. if he has a sister.
This is a fascinating conversation