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Simple Lead Repair
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2014
- You can do lead repair with simple items from a hardware store.
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This is a very old school body talent. Used to be on any seam or joint of a car truck etc . Haven't seen it demonstrated by anyone except your channel in a very long time. Good to keep the old school going.
I've been doing it for over 40 years
It seems it would be more durable than bondo
I gotta tell you after watching a lot of your work, I'm amazed that anything I screwed together, repaired, or welded in the old days actually lasted.
I thought about all the things I'd want to incorporate if I built a truck, and realized it's sitting in the garage right now in the form of a 330 inch F150. Retirement is good!
Good for you Jon! In the old days things didn't need to be so precise. Everything improves as technology advances. Great for the do it yourselfer. Have fun with your F150.
For 40 years I've been soldering. I never knew flux lowered the melting point of solder. I understood the melting point of solder was determined by the tin lead ratio.
Well, the first purpose of flux is to clean and prevent oxidation. It also helps the solder to flow, that is what I meant by lowering the melting point.
I tried your method yesterday, it worked great. I took my solder and cut a piece about 8 inches and straightened it out to make myself a "welding rod". I filled up several holes in a 72 Chevy fender using your method, thanks again for the information!
+dogbitefred That's awesome! I'm glad it worked for you
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Flux does not Lower the melting temperature it helps soldering, brazing, and welding by removing oxidation from the metals to be joined and prevents the formation of metal oxides, Flux also enables the solder to adhere to the clean metal surface, rather than forming beads, as it would on an oxidized surface
You're right, thanks for the correction
Flux etches the surface.
Tinning (applying a thin coating of solder) allows heavier layers to stick.
I have seen people use solder paste (solder particles in flux paste) applied with a copper scourer on to the hot surface to tin large areas.
Tinning and soldering little psnippets of metal is a great way to patch - did it recently on a Suzuki fuel tank. Never throw away old desktop computer cases - lovely sheets of thin steel!
Anytime you solder with lead, any lead no matter if it has tin in it or not wear a respirator, otherwise you will be breathing in lead oxides from the melting process and never, never grind or sand lead of any kind with a machine. You are filling the air with microscopic lead particles that you then breath in. Use a body file to smooth it only.
Thanks Frank
As always, well explained videos - thanks Petes for taking your invaluable time to give a clear illustration.
I have a 1983 240D benz and water leaks through some rusty holes close to the winshield rubber glass. Any video illustrating how to address/work on these areas?
+Carlos Avila You can use the same process if you take the glass out. I do it all the time
Oh 1 more question, what is the maximum thickness you shouldn’t go over? Is it similar to bondo? Reason I’m asking is bottom of my door rusted out but it’s not that bad and my door is in excellent shape maybe needing 1/8ths max also everything for MoPars is very expensive thanks again
I've filler in A pillars and body seams 3/16"
Don’t forget to remove any excess acid as you will have problems with it reacting with paint topcoats later.
Absolutely correct
Brilliant. Tempted to solder up a rust hole on my Saab 9-3 instead of using filler.
It works awesome! Give it a go
Great thanks. I inherited an old tool box belonged to my dad, in process of restoring, going to use this process in filling in some screw holes he made that don't belong...thanks again.
That is really cool!
I'm repairing rust holes in a child's wagon. The wagon was sandblasted and epoxy primered. Do I have to sand or grind the epoxy off to bare metal to solder the holes?
Yes
70/30 lead tin body solder is relatively easy to do. But other lead/tin solder compounds don't work nearly as well.
True
Wow thanks so much for sharing that. Awesome video.
Thanks my friend
Nice video, you made that look surprisingly easy!
Thank you, everything is easy when you practice.
would you do this in a window channel with pin doles and a coulpe pencle size ... after sand blasting i found them and was going to weld them shut but so thin
love the vid
Yes, absolutely
Now I have some holes to fill from a mirror so like screw holes. Is this a better method than using a wire feed welder?
Yes, less heat, unless you are really good at spot welding.
8 years later and still going strong on giving people alternative ideas to rust hole repairs, other than using MIG / TIG welding.. I have an old 77" IH Loadstar truck with half dozen rust holes in the roof, not restoring it to show room, but into a joy rider / (not for hire) work.. really can't say much for its floor, completely rotted out under the rubber mat.. lol
I try
How strong is this type of repair? I was thinking of trying it on my bedside toolbox lid. I made the whole side of the bed lift up and there are shelves under it. The body panels came in two pieces, from the middle of the fender to the front of the bed, and the other one from the middle of the fender to the back. I tack welded the two pieces together and used bondo to fill in the imperfections. After using the door for a while it has started cracking where the bondo is. Would this lead repair hold up in this situation? I'm sorry for the long comment but I thought it would help to explain the situation.
No problem Luke. I use this lead on every seam I weld, like quarter panels and seams. It lasts forever if you do it right. I use bondo very sparingly.
Great idea to do. Could I use a handheld butane torch ? Could I use flux paste before using soldier or just get what you used. I know...questions...
questions. Lol. Thanks !
Yes on all of that
So after the solder is cooled down does the temperature to melt it stay at that lower temp or is it back to its pre flux temperature?
It melts at the same temp
Thanks worked perfectly only took 5 minutes for a great job
Great to hear!
damn, you used like an 84" grinding disc... are you 100% sure that this type of repair will hold up? like would you be comfortable doing this on a 67 GT fastback to fill an emblem hole? just wondering because ive been looking for an alternative to welding small emblem holes and slightly warping panels...
+Chris Craft I use this type of repair on any car. All cars have leaded seams actually. That was a job on the assembly line. It is actually a factory original repair
cool... oh, i know about leading but i was just trying to make sure that this method with the solder and small torch will hold up and i will be trying this pretty soon.. thanks,,,, good video
Will that bleed through the paint?....herd it would....that why I never used acid core wire
Not at all. Just clean the surface with water and baking soda to neutralize the acid.
Dude, i soldered copper pipes all the times i did any kind of bathroom and or kitchen renovation.. i never thought of doing this on a car... i have a small 1/4 inch hole near my windshield on the roof, thats filled for the moment with an acrylic caulking... would this type of repair actually work???
I do it all the time
@@PetesGarage awesome... so the process would be , clean metal/sandblast, then wire brush /sink the hole around the edges with body hammer or countersink spike, tin with 95% tin 5% silver solder and a zinc chloride flux, wipe, neutralize the hydrochloric acid with baking soda and water, then melt lead to fill the hole, shape a needed?
That's how you do it
Thank you for inspiration. Good luck for more works.
Thank you! You too!
Can you sand the lead down smoothly with a fine grit sandpaper like 400 grit? Or is it too strong to sand? Thanks.
It's very easy to sand and even polish
What about bigger holes, where you doesnt have inner metal plate. For example in rocker panels. Using lead too?
I've welded in patch panels, countersunk the seams and leaded them flush.
This is a great video, thanks for sharing! I've got old motorcycle fenders and tanks that need this. I'm gonna give it a shot.
+OneInch Punch It's easy to do,take your time
+Petes Garage this worked really well, thanks again for sharing!!
Would love to try this out, my dad has his old 1995 Jaguar XJ Sport sat in my drive and its began to rust on the back wheel arch, id love to work on it and get it fixed before it gets worse but im sure he just won't let me near it.
thank, for another great video, Pete much appreciated!! PJP
Thanks Patrick
Thanks for the video. Once question. Since the flux is acidic, will this starts corrosion again?
Yes, that's why you clean it with baking soda
How much paint gets scorched by the heat of the torch, or do you grind a wide perimeter beyond the rust to avoid this? Also, on a front quarter panel would the heat
remove the undercoating of the wheel well?
thank you
I always grind enough so it does not burn the paint. You may heat it enough to melt undercoat...but not burn it
Just found this video, awesome. I’m going to repair some imperfections on my 94 F-150
Glad it helped
Thanks for your video, it was very informative, is lead better than body filler for small rust holes?
Metal repair is always better than plastic filler
this is good for holes in a hood where filler swells . copper foil base larger holes works too.
Don Desnoo why not just weld it
@@mr.quimby_is_newclyde8830 welding can cause hole to het larger and If you have an aluminum hood you might as well use this method
Thank you boss! Going to try this method !
Good luck!
I’m going to go give this a try see how it works .. thnx
Good luck
Will lead repair rust fast or do you have to protect it with primer? Will it hold up over time and does it have to be that specific number? Thank you
You have to prime and paint it because the steel around it can still rust. It will hold up for decades
@Pete's Garage thank you so much my 70 challenger has some little spots that’s perfect for this. You saved me from needles spending (times is rough for me right now) in my efforts to save my car thank you!!
Good luck
Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for.
I'm so glad you found it, I could have just told you
@@PetesGarage Thank you for being a surprise walk-on guest during last night's stream and personally explaining it to our eager audience!
It's always a pleasure to walk-on
Outstanding. I’ll give it a shot.
You can do it
That was just what I was looking for, the facts and no shit. Thank you sir.
Thanks John
I have a large lead flower pot that was round and when it was emptied of the dirt and flowers for moving it, the sides caved in slightly overnight!. Do you know what can be done to make sides go back to standing up straight? I want it to go back to original shape. I haven't seen anything on UA-cam. Hopefully it can be reshaped to normal. Thanks for any advice!
A lead flower pot? Sounds like a dangerous material to make a flower pot out of. It probably got too hot somehow, even just sitting in the sun
I am not a body man but that seems like sloppy work not seeing those low spots etc. Is that the common way most body men do this applying solder multiple times instead of once?
This is a scrap fender just demonstrating the steps
Im trying to find info on flux. I can find lead free solder and I can even order 6040 but is there other types? Do I use tinning for this prior? I have watched other videos but nobody is clear on that. Thanks and I enjoy your videos sir.
This is the product I use www.eastwood.com/ew-tinning-butter-1-lb-jar.html
Whats the tinning butter for? You didn't use any in your video
Hey pete this is a cool trick. thanks for showing m this. I will definitely try this on my restoration. hey is it ok to use the lead bars from an old car battery? I have a bunch of them on a warehouse that I purchased and never thought of using them for anything. the battery's are so old the plastic cases are deteriorating and are exposing the lead inside. just wondering.
Any lead will work, but I would melt out all of the impurities first.
Do you ever have any corrosion or rust issues with the solder acid flux?
No, as long as you neutralize with baking soda
@@PetesGarage Is that baking soda and a water mix? if so what's the mix ratio?
Just make a baking soda slurry like paste
Would a non acid flux work the same? I worry anytime acid is near my paint or metal.
Thank I have some trim work that needs leading. On the back widow frame Always wondered if you can do it
You can do it and it will last forever
Pete is there a chance that wax will contaminate the work and cause problems under primer or with solder bonding?
Maybe a putty knife would work to smooth solder (no wax)?
No. not at all, it's made for lead work
@@PetesGarage - Pete I have several areas where I removed crappy Bondo repairs on my 70s Challenger. I took it down to bare metal at the areas and removed all rust. I bought an Eastwood kit for lead work. Is there anything I need to be aware of to avoid ruining the body metal like overheating it with torch? What do you suggest to apply to bare metal to prevent surface rust while car is stored in garage?
Great video, I have a 911 that the rear arches are starting to bubble up with rust, once I grind the rust out if the hole is bigger than the one in this video do you think this will still work or would i need to weld a plate behind first?
You can spot weld in a piece of metal, that will work well.
Great Thanks
Really great, going to try this on my old classic, thanks
Pete, I truly enjoy and appreciate your videos. I've always wanted to learn lead work and I think the solder method may be a good step into lead repair. I do have a question though, is lead solder a good to use to fill holes that were used to hold some chrome trim on?
Thanks Jason. The lead is a great base for holes. It is certainly strong enough to fill bolt holes. I do it all the time.
Nice, would the solder be strong enough to hold a small patch, say 2 inch by 2 inch?
Lead is pretty strong. I have used patches like that before and it worked fine.
Would the glazing putty you mention be the same as you'd use for installing
window glass?
No. This is either a polyester putty or a solvent based spot putty you would buy at an auto supply store.
Hi Pete, have you got any idea if this can be done to a chrome bumper......... ?
No, chrome does not work well over lead
Would this be OK for a motorcycle gas tank?
As long as it's steel
wow really cool old skill trick btw awesome shirt! I'm gunna try this 2mro!
It's a handy skill to have
I tried the soldering technique on the cast metal light housing on my 65 mustang. I used lots of flux, but solder won't stick. Could anyone provide some advice? Thanks.
You can not solder cast metal. I wish there were a way to fix it other than plastic fillers.
On pot metal repair (muggy weld)
Works perfect! Been using it for years!
Thanks for the tip Pete
Now I'm on the right track
Cheers
Good...thanks Anthony
You go girl!!
How long does is last out and do body filler hold to it good?
It will last decades and filler will stick to it
I was going to try it with 50/50 rods . ?
I have been trying to find info on body leading and one guy crack me up , he was melting down old rim balance weights .
Im a bit sus on the wire your using and wonder if it is gong to create more problems as I would like to try body leading but want to do it right from the start .
It hard finding information about it as its such a dying art !
+No One You can use all types of lead, even lead free wire. Melting old tire weights is smart because they're cheap if not free and are made of lead. You can get a starter lead kit from Eastwood. Comes with everything you need.
Yeah but with all that acid residue on the solder wire ? Does that not create more issues further down the track with rust and paint application etc ?
AND does the lead need to be clean ? I imagine , eg tyre weights are I think made out of old car batteries so the lead is not clean .
I also heard stories of panel beaters that work from under passways would use solder wire and that rust would form quicker then usual ?
And also it says that you should not use power tools on lead as the dust particles are highly toxic and considered extremely dangerous to humans ?
Sorry mate im not trying to slander you I have just been trying to do the job proper and dont want to cut any corners .
I like what you have shared but would like some more insight to this job you have done.
+No One The last step is to clean the area of any flux, that is simply done with baking soda. The weights are made of lead. When you melt lead any impurity will rise to the surface and leave behind pure lead. Rust will not form as long as you clean the area thoroughly. If you do the job right you can form the lead with a body file. I used a power tool to speed up the job, but yes, you should wear a dust mask. I think you can do it!
Glazing putty contains talc with asbestos mostly of the time.
Interesting
why did you not clean the metal better??
christoffer1973 This was a junk fender I was using to show how the process is done
***** OK. That explains it all. But great tip. Nice when you weld up a hole ex from antenna. Normal filler uses to shrink after few years.
Thank you.
Awesome, great info
"The flux lowers the melting point of the solder." No, has nothing to do with melting point..
Flux acts as an anti-oxidant, allowing for better wetting (melding of the two metals).
Thanks for that info
And I thought you had to find an old school type of body shop or body man and pay a lot of $$$ to repair the old lead areas which you will find when taking off the vinyl top (of a Mopar b-body in my case). Thanks for the tip!
+c dl I have filled many clip holes after taking off vinyl tops. You can do it yourself
What do you recommend as a primer over this repair, great vid by the way...
I use an etching epoxy primer
This a is great for patching hole that I made on my hood. Some idiot think Bondo does everything no Bondo does not patch holes.
It works very well
You can use shortening instead of tallow...its basically the same thing
Have you tried the eastwood lead free, or know anyone who has? What are your thoughts?
I have not
We use lead when it comes to body repairs on some of our vintage cars at our transport museum. It would be a crime to use plastic filler on cars that old.
I've been using lead for 30 years....it's the best way to do it
That is a really great idea.
+rickym49 Thanks my friend
that was great. thanks
You're welcome!
i just published youre video
its relly good videos
i have som nice sport cars that are some rust on,
you helped me belive i can fix them! :D
Andreas Dokken You can do it
in vocationl school we got a crash course on body solder, but for the most part we used plastic body filler.
I like solder but use plastic quite a bit
Great vid Pete. Could you provide the brand of lead you are using?
I get lead from Eastwood, butany lead will work
hi pete whats your thoughts on white vinegar to cleaning of rust
+Eifion Davies Vinegar is a mild acid. Acidicilic acid to be exact.It is about 5% acid in water. It can work, but a stronger acid like battery acid diluted in water will be more effective.
Will the repair withstand the heat of being powder coated?
No, powder coating is heated up to 375 degrees F and the solder will melt
@@PetesGarage There is low temp powder out there but is mainly epoxy base and will chalk in UV. Or you can lower the cure temp if you bake it longer. All depends on powder manufacture specks. Will be attempting this in the days to come..
How would you advise flushing a gas tank before attempting this?
Fill it with water. If there is no air in it there is no risk of fire.
@@PetesGarage Don't use water Pete, it will start rusting almost immediately and you will never stop it. Best to use nitrogen gas, just flood the tank while you are welding or soldering. If you have a shop and do this repair often just order a nitrogen tank from your Oxy/Acetylene supplier, then pick up a cheap regulator and attach a short rubber hose. Safe, easy and does no damage to the tank whereas water destroys it... a lesson I learned the hard way.
Ty
very helpful-great vid..
Thanks Charlie
why didn t you warn about warping body panels with too much heat?
Because when you use body lead you don't heat the metal enough to cause permanent warping. It will bend when you heat it, but as it cools it will go back into place.
Can you do this with a soldering iron?
No
How did you neutralize the acid from the flux?
Baking soda and water
What are the chances I can get this to work on pot metal?
I'm thinking pretty low. Pot metal has a low melting point, but you could try.
Thank God you aint no plumber! Thats the dirtiest sweat joint I ever saw!
Thank God this is not plumbing
Thanx Pete
Thank you
Will that work on lead drain pipes ?
Yes
Not criticizing you, but this looks like a pre-historic method of work. Seems that Bondo used properly is quicker and easier, and probably less toxic to work with.
+caduceus33 This method of repair is actually a factory original repair. When cars were built with seems, they were all leaded shut. This was a job on the assembly line. When restoring a car it is critical to know how to use lead if you replace any body panels especially the rear quarter panels. The mast and A pillar seems are all leaded smooth. This type of repair will never bubble, or lift like bondo usually will. As with any process it is completely safe if you take the proper safety precautions.
+Petes Garage Thanks for your reply! I originally thought that lead was just used in the old hot rod days for customizing. It looks as though the lead really has to be coaxed to get it to stick.
+caduceus33 If you tin the metal correctly it flows right on
bondo sucks this is the way to go nice job thanks
Thank you
That's a Dastsun roadster fender right?
That is actually from a 1969 Mustang
Your the MANNNN
Thanks my friend
When soldering steel I find you get a much better flow and adherence to the steel if you use Bakers Fluid No3. Why do Americans pronounce solder as sober?
Interesting. Growing up I always heard is pronounced as sodder.
I wouldn’t try this trick if I had a welder. MIG TIG or stick welding would all be much better and safer repairs.
Now if I was out in the middle of nowhere, survival. Zombie Apocalypse type of situation. Cool trick.
Welding is too hot, it will warp the metal
@@PetesGaragewith knowledge comes power. I stand corrected Thank you Pete.
is it possible to do a lead repair on a motorcycle exhaust then chrome plate it?
No. The lead melts at a low temprature
Does paint stick to it good
Very well
or you could use fiber glass filler and fill both sides of the hold, and finish it off with regular plastic body filler and prime and paint and should last longggg time, it would be faster too. good video tho.
That does work as well
Activated Fiberglass is not faster and it does not become a permanent part of the metal fender, unfortunately it just does not adhere well to raw metal. Bondo may adhere better but it does not last as long, give it 10 years and it looks like the bottom of the fender that Pete was working on. Lead the vehicles you want to keep a long time, only use an extremely high-quality polyester filler as a thin topper over the lead if you can't smooth it perfectly. If doing larger areas use a stick of 100% lead and a professional flux paste, it's a lot faster and you can almost spread like a plastic filler with a wooden paddle and just the right amount of heat. Not trying to be pushy but I have been in body shop business since 1970, so have tried all products and concepts. Just give it a try, you may like the results.
Why not just weld it ?
Because in order to weld it you have to heat the metal to its melting point and that will definitely warp any panel.