i think the obsession might come because of the fans that are obsessed with the objective "singing high notes makes you a good singer" no matter how strained it sounds
It's really disappointing how pervasive that line of thinking is. Vocal technique is half of what makes vocals appealing. Tone is also very important. I find in my experience that listening to a trained vocalist (high notes, low notes, comfort zone, etc.) is far more preferable than hearing strained, incredibly ear shattering notes. I actually am very impressed and drawn to lower registers as they often feel more... luscious? Rich? I can't think of the correct word lol but they sound like smooth silk to my ears
@@Chuckles_The_Echidna i agree with what you said about the lower register. i do not mind listening to vocalists that aren't the most technical advanced (wonyoung for example i just really really enjoy her tone) even though i know they need vocal training.
Like for and its not only kpop fans I've met people in general who feel if you can high note no matter how it sounds that is what it means to be a good singer
@@straawberryy me too, I love mina tone and style, she is one of my favorite vocalist even tho she lack alot in singing but her tone is just SO GOOD to hear
I haven't seen a video of her singing it without straining hard enough to burst a blood vessel, yet people go crazy over it. I always thought I was the problem, like I'm missing something.
It's low-key funny to me. A lot of her own songs are out of her range and she strains them. In survival shows, they make even less competent singers sings the songs she herself can't sing😂 idk why I find the irony so funny
@@allieannette3712 I think that's because she doesn't sang that song too often that it would damage her vocal cords. She got recommendations from her doctors to not sing it way too often.
It’s goes deeper than vocal tone. Music context such as genre is also an important factor. For example, High notes from someone with a soft tone works the best with rnb. High notes from someone with a sharp is effective in rock. It’s all about what’s appropriate for the song.
As important as technique, agility, and breath control is...Vocal tone is definitely what's one of the most important things to me. You can hit a note without straining it..but if you sound awful....do we really wanna hear it?
@@lincolneyar8269 technique is important for sure and its importance can't really be understated but even if you have good technique you could have a really grating tone. like i genuinely kind of can't stand sopranos with really high and light voices doing high belts because their voices are so light and piercing. that's not a matter of technique. but a matter of their natural timbre
Its quite good to see how Belle sort of recognised (or not lol) the strain she has been putting her voice lately and with recent comeback, she has been showing more of her lower register on the bridge instead of high notes like how she’d usually does it. It quite good but to untrained ears, people dont see this shit because all they care is her straining her voice to hit those high notes
like companies need to realize if idols can’t do a highnote without straining, then just don’t make them😭 for example, yujin of ive gets really high vocals even though she is an underdeveloped vocalist
Not only overly obsessed with high notes, but the kpop industry needs to stop forcing idols to sing entire songs outside their vocal range *cough* JYP *cough* Go listen to Panorama by IzOne. Fantastic song that sounds like it's sung by Alvin and the Chipmunks for no good reason.
I remember when Twice cameback with "i can't stop me", OMG i the way Jihyo and Nayeon (specially Nayeon) forced their voice, i could never understand what was the purpose of giving them such impossible high note, the girls are good enough and don't need to reach those limits to show their talent
Almost every twice and izone songs 😭 like I love them but everytime they sing some of their songs live they sound like they're pushing and straining so hard just to reach that high note. Their main vocalists have so much potential (yena, yuri, nayeon, jihyo etc.) But they're singing songs way out of their range (although I'd say they can handle them IF they have more proper training). They need to give them songs that fit them so they can shine especially in live singing
@@gial5338 ICSM is vocally explosive especially for nayeon's part in a sense as she have to shout but not really vocally straining, so not a perfect example in this context
@@Akkochan123 Yes. It just sounds like screaming a lot of the time, but the only idol you can say that about without getting a lot of pushback is Hwang Yeji which is really unfair
Well... Resonance on its own is pretty much everything in a voice, so it would mean doing high belts/mixes without even going into the territory of a singing-sound
The trend of considering high notes as the critical measure of vocal ability in Korea, since early 2010, may be influenced by professional singing competition programs like "I'm a singer", "Immortal Song" and"King of Mask Singer". In these shows, the majority of winners were the top tier singers extremely good in the high note, for example, So Hang, Ki-Young Park and Yeon Woo Ha. Unfortunately, it made a tendency for the Korean public to become excessively fixated on high notes, IMHO.
It could also be that this obsession comes from korea's conservative/ traditional outlook even on music and now its become the norm to find only high notes impressive also because in most asian countries+ korea ballads were always popular, here in asia its kinda like.. the pop of asia is ballads east asia, southeast asia, south asia etc ballads were popular everywhere even before many asian countries became independent so maybe(probably) that perception & expectations for ballads trickled down even to the next generations.
what's important to note is that all those singers have many other things going for them that isn't just high notes. Sohyang has clarity and raw emotion, Park Kiyoung has versatility, musicality and artistry, and Ha Hyunwoo has style and being a fantastic performer. These idols are tending to only be seen for their high notes and little else, which might make them feel like they HAVE to do them
Whenever someone accuses idols of screaming I am always like “No they aren’t screaming” but this time Ahyeon's obviously screaming I can’t defend her 😭
@@Hellokitty_391 the fact that the only idols screaming g her sister the other people in the video and not Ahyeon lmao because her high note sound amazing compared to the other in the video 😂
Glad to see Seulgi included - she is so underestimated as a vocalist but actually form the vocal backbone of RV along with Wendy. Seulgi does not have crazy high notes but sings well within her range.
Thats why i love Ningning soo much iam obsessed with her lower register she doesn’t sing high like her vocal chord is going to break she know her comfort range and sing in her own way❤
@@anisaafsar4528 yeh at their early debut they let her belting too much but she improved as her stain note turn into her relax range plus she has great technique like vibrato,breath control etc
As a kyungsoo fan it has been slightly annoying seeing people saying things like he hasn't been using his voice to its full potential in his solos just because he doesn't do high note filled songs when anyone with working ears can see how absolutely amazing he is in every single song and even though they're not belty they are still incredibly hard to sing and he is ao effortless with his voice and vocal technique that they seem easy to sing
His singing is always filled with emotion, and that really is a difficult thing to achieve. I have yet to see a voice with more emotion and an interesting texture, except for him and Jonghyun. Maybe also Woosung
Definitely not me. His resonance ❤ he can belt but since its not piercing, looks like he don't sing high enough i guess thats wwhat most people think 😂
I think the reason why stans clamor onto high notes so much is because they don’t get to see their faves do much else. Not a lot of idols have the technique to play around with other aspects of singing. So many struggle with supporting their notes. Others struggle with pitch. Forget about vocal agility with some. When we look at the recent generation of western artists praised for their vocals (Ariana, Demi, Dinah, Perrie, Tori, JoJo, etc.), look at how they’re able to bring so many tools to the table. I think it was Whitney that said something in an interview along the lines of how having a better grasp of vocal techniques allowed her to do more in her music. And not because she could, because she wanted to. I think a great example is Demi’s “Stone Cold”. We know that crazy high note in the bridge. But then she changed the arrangement for the Billboard’s Women In Music Award’s show with a lower high note. She’s capable of singing the song either way. But she chooses which one she thinks works best. A lot of KPop idols don’t have that choice. Their technique is so underdeveloped and limited that they sometimes even struggle with the high notes that separate them from their peers. So, when fans don’t get to experience listening to an artist that possesses a full range of vocal skills, high notes become the one and only thing that stands out amongst a bunch of monotone singing. I really hope companies start investing more and more time into cultivating strong vocal technique. Not only is it good in the long term, but it also diversifies what artists can do. A lot of people have been feeling discontent with KPop (especially boy groups) in finding a lot of artists’ discographies to sound similar to each other. When you have the ability to explore other sounds because your voice isn’t limited, the sky’s the limit. We’ve seen this with Mamamoo, Red Velvet, NMIXX, and Kiss Of Life. R&B, Jazz, Mix Pop, etc. They wouldn’t be able to handle these genres if the members weren’t competent vocally. Anyways, that’s my two cents. Or two books lol Great vid as always! Your content never disappoints and always opens my eyes to aspects of KPop I failed to notice! ❤️
while i do agree with you, i think most fans simply don't have the understanding of voice as an instrument that's necessary to consider other parts of vocal technique also important, let alone more important than simply hitting a high note. high notes are spectacle and that's the most that fans are going to understand.
I just discovered your channel and I've been binging for like 2 hours. To me it's so shocking that kpop idols undergo super rigorous training for years and then they debut and they can barely sing... It's like, what? What were they teaching them? To dance, sure, but vocally? And I agree, technique is better than range, for sure!! But I also feel most kpop fans (myself included) don't know enough about singing to appreciate what the idols can do and think high notes is the end all of singing. Moreover, people think just hitting the high note is enough but it's obvious, now that you've pointed it out, how Belle isn't as skilled in signing super high notes as she is in other areas. This was a very interesting video to watch, thank you!
@@LupescupeFirst of all, thank you so much! It means a lot and hopefully I’ll continue to upload content that you enjoy! And second, there’s definitely a ring of truth to that. A lot of stans don’t possess the background (whether it be educational or simply what they listen to) to have experienced all that a well developed voice has to offer. I hope that they explore outside of KPop both to see what they’re missing out on (and to expand their musical palette). I definitely think companies focus mainly on stamina. They can hide poor vocal technique with lip syncing. And they don’t need to worry about stage presence because plenty of idols can get away with just being attractive and fans think they’re a great performer. But they can’t hide it if an idol is dying on stage because they’re not able to handle a 3.5 minute performance without losing their breath and looking like they’re about to topple over. Companies probably figure that until they can find a way to hide idols without any stamina, that’s what they need to prioritize in the idol’s training period. Everything else can either come later or a trainee/idol has to take the initiative to develop those skills outside of scheduled practice times.
@@kaylabunnie5283 this is not a drag😭 it’s good he actually takes vocal lessons regularly but realistically it’s not beneficial for anyone to put that much pressure on their voice so often no matter how talented they are or how wide their range is
@@i_332 According to the man himself, his health (he has allergies, he needs good sleep, his voice doesn't like the cold/lots of air conditioning, etc.) affects his vocal ability more than anything else. The higher range is more natural to him but people don't want to accept that.
@@kaylabunnie5283 i’m not going to argue with you about that and we both can agree that he is an amazing vocalist which is why I hope he doesn’t push himself too much now so he is able to continue singing in the future
I’m only a casual fan of Ateez but I feel bad how they make Jongho sing in that high range all the time. I feel like he could probably do a variety of cool vocals but it’s always that high wailing during his part.
As an Ateez Ulter…. I completely agree with you. He has an incredible voice, his ballads are tear-inducing, his softer vocals are so sweet and clear, but all we get half the time is yelly belts. Their music is very intense, so I could see why they’d want to make his vocals more intense, but like…. At what cost lol? I feel like I can’t even say anything as an Atiny without people getting defensive, but I am not saying and have NEVER said he can’t sing. Just that I wish they’d use his voice differently more often. I feel like his high belts would only get better too, if given time to breaaaaathe in between them, ya know?
He can and does, but he also likes doing the high notes and has the most extensive vocal training. His vocal coach was the same as Baekhyun's and is taking vocal lessons with Kathleen Riggs. You should check out some of the songs he sang for OSTs like Gravity or A Day and his solo song Everything.
i don't like his high notes, his singing is very "yelling" for me, no hate to him personally. this is why i don't really listen to ateeze, for example the song inception was going really good sort of melodic still a bit techno and then suddenly his "deep in my heart, deep in my soul... flashing light" the part is so ear straining i can't fully listen even though i liked the og concept. ateez have their own audience in that case, not every group is for everyone
DO tho. He definitely can sing HIGH. But not coz he can, he have to. Everyone loves his chill songs. It's the voice color that people need to appreciate.
i don't particularly stan babymonster but i saw yesterday a video of ahyeon pushing out the high note in sheesh several notes higher than it originally is and GOD did it sound strained 😭 i really hope she's taking good care of her vocal cords behind the scenes
Exactly, I love her so much but she needs to stop sometime. It's not necessary to push those high notes all the time when it's not needed. Something you can hear her voice breaking 💀
@@saradfv Yes him too. I've been there since 20212 both groups debuted, I can say Chen still is little bit above Eunkwang. Eunkwang, tho with high range, struggles with technique and support in the early times, but he's splendid now due to training ang experience.
Kpop companies not only need to start taking technical levels way more into account but also tone. Winter from Aespa can do these high notes (to a certain level) fine, but her tone is so incredibly piercing and nasal that even when she does have fine technique, it still doesn’t sound pleasing. Same with Ahyeon from BaeMon, except she doesn’t even have the okay technique on these notes that Winter does and is literally screaming.
@@DeeDeeDeeeee yeh ahyeon is falt high note no such technique and sound more like screaming while winter was natural high pitch plus in her belting she has very strong vibrato
Winter's belt is getting less piercung. I think it was YYJ who made her doing highnotes like 'SM' style cause Ningning's best suit isnt 'SM style' highnotes,
Need to explain: winter can sounds fine and some fuller at least in her range like Bb4/B4 she can showcase her clean here. Then Ahyeon not just about technical but she lack the "true" connection to her cord then her development can't go to 5 octave! In this gen only a Few idols can mix or belts above B4s like for example: Lily, Haewon, Ning' some Average like Haram, Geoun, Winter have a moment at least until C#5! If the vocalist have developed a 5 octave like Taeyeon, Eunji, Wendy ofc those idol can do what most ppl said it's a "High Note" the thing ppl or fans should knowing about Mix register and Belting, head voice. rather than just comment or called thats "High Notes" lol.
I'm glad winter isn't given high notes that often anymore. It's just too ear bleeding and annoying bc of her tone. Always felt ningning or any other member deserved those high notes instead of her. Hearing her do high notes always reminds me of that one quote "just because you can do it does not mean you should do it". And well the only reason ahyeon keeps getting these high notes is bc of that one viral moment that made her famous. Her tone is just too annoying no wonder my favourite song from baemon is batter up. She just ruins the perfect bridge of sheesh for me and now in forever as well. I wanna know who in that studio listens to her scream and thinks well that was awesome let's add it to the song. Even suhyun from akmu who can actually pull off these crazy high notes which ahyeon does, does not show it off bc it is never required in their songs. YG forcefully puts these high notes in baemon songs so that fans would gag. I'm also glad bp does not do high notes as well (they do but it's really rare)
Doh Kyungsoo is an example. He is best in both but do not strain his vocal chords. Just because he doesnt have high parts in group songs, doesnt mean he cant. But if he does it, like rewrite the stars, mama, love me right says he doesnt strain. 🥰
yup, for example this video, repeatedly showing that kingdom clip which was YEARS AGO. when jongho has now improved much better by continuous learning from his vocal coach. they didn't even show him doing low register which can be heard from some of their songs and even from his own osts 🤦🤦
@@ichhimaii1956 exactly this creator didn’t do any research at all just using a viral moment repeatedly he did this in other videos too idk if it’s a thing against ATEEZ directly but he seems to only do this when it comes to Jongho
Tbf fans LOVE high notes, they sound impressive to the common folk and that's why even BTS got praised and loved for them. But then again Jongho has done so much other than these high notes. I don't see any clip or mention of his OSTs, the covers of OSTs, immortals songs etc. I've watched a few of this channel's videos and there is no such mention or even a clip of that. Boy groups usually have higher range when it comes to songs (hence most of Jongho's high notes in Ateez) because Ateez and other idols have mentioned it themselves and that those kinds of songs garner more attention
@@yatorayeager5517 who is comparing BTS here?! It's the whole kpop thing as a whole. I just said that fans love high notes... There is no comparison, I don't think there's any need to create drama out of nothing. Ig I'll be more specific and say that the majority of kpop fans love high notes and praise their idols for doing so (it's my observation only). And u don't need to throw shade at any other idol either.
Bringing examples from ZB1: Taerae and Zhang Hao both are incredibly capable of doing high notes. However their lower registers are easily their true vocal highlight. They harmonize with everyone so easily and smoothly like butter and adds so much vocal richness to any song they sang.
obsessed with their low notes in their starry club covers oof edit: leaving this here bc taerae's lower register improvement is chefs kiss ua-cam.com/video/OHkONMZZYU8/v-deo.htmlsi=1bwG3LFnZyxQCaCY + id recommend going through this channel for more jebewon vocal content
Every time I listen and watch zhang hao perform it makes me happy remembering he is the winner of boys planet like such a deserved winner honestly. Can't think of any better winner than him. Taerae-Zhang Hao undoubtedly the best vocal duo of 5th gen and I don't think anyone would come close to these two
this is always what p*ssed me off the most about kpop fans. specifically because im a huge D.O. stan and he’s unarguably one of thee best vocalists in kpop but he doesn’t get mentioned as much as Chen or Baekhyun simply because he doesn’t really do these crazy 5th octave high notes, as if that made his bandmates the „clearly better“ singers (it doesn’t). very sad because massive talents like him get overlooked because of it
this made me especially mad because he has this huge skill of having a full and powerful sound very high up in his range like up to C5 he sounds incredibly full and sometimes even at ease, while with other male vocalists you would hear a clear lightening of the mix (which isn’t bad at all ofc) but that doesn’t matter because he’s not squeezing out E5s or F5s in every songs climax. let’s not even get into his great agility..
Kyuhyun from Super Junior is the best example of a vocalist who manages his voice very well. He rarely use his voice outside his supported range, yet he is still considered the best vocalist among Kpop idols to this day. No other idols can match his vocal superiority. Although he barely use powerful high notes, but he is the only Kpop male idol who can support up to C5. He is also a well-rounded vocalist, proficient in lower, mid, and upper registers. As well the only male idol to have achieved a four-octave range. It's true that others can do powerful high notes but did they support it?No. It's like cheating . So big respect to those vocalists who managed their vocals so well.
He leaves the high notes to Ryeowook (the best in this field with his flexibility between chest voice, head voice and falsetto) and Yesung but for the lower notes (in KRY) he's the best.
There does seem to be a lot of people who conflate high _notes_ with high _quality_ singing-to the point that clips of EXO showing incredible dynamics, control, agility, etc. are written off as "not showing how good they are" and instead the fan recommends a compilation of high notes. Like... what? _Excuse me??_ The number of times I have seen this exact thing is absurd. The strength of a good singer is in those techical things, in their ability to communicate emotion and yeah, maybe in their range. But reducing it down to high notes not only ignores a ton of hard work put in by great singers, it condemns those of us with lower ranges to NEVER being "great singers" bc a high note for us doesn't sound like a high note.
Seriously,stop adding high notes on itzy's songs. I want to hear their comfortable voices not highnotes that they can barely sing. I'm shocked how they learned nothing from all those 1st&2nd gen singers getting vocal nodules.
if you compare jongho's vocals in kingdom vs. coachella it'll really make you realize just how much more important vocal tone and technique is in singing high notes. because edenary really needs to give this man justice in terms of showcasing how good his vocals actually are (╥﹏╥) . his voice shines best in his covers of "so you" and "dear name" but edenary just cant seem to utilize his vocals right and just gives him high notes after high notes...
They give him high notes because he can handle them, they also give him plenty of lines in a lower range. Maybe you should listen to more of their songs, try lyrics videos to actually see who's singing when?
@@LadyTiferethe can handle high notes but only to a certain extent. there are times that jongho gets noticeably nasally (and at times sounds painful) when singing high notes bcs they are sometimes out of his comfort zone.. tho I won't deny that he is getting better as days go by but singing all these high notes can very much strain his voice and can be impractical considering how high energy ateez' songs can get.. also for reference, can you name some songs where jongho is singing in a lower register? the only song that I can recall rn is the leaders 🤧
@@hgrxste1549 there are many: Horizon, Desire, Win, Wonderland, Promise, Say My Name, With U come to mind just from the ATEEZ discography, but he has also done OST work which shows his lower register
@@hgrxste1549with Ateez? Try his solo Everything. His OSTs include lower register singing. His cover with Maddox of Ditto has them singing in all registers and trading off who sings high or low. He sings mostly for Ateez in his mixed voice. Watch his Immortal Songs appearances where he uses a variety of vocal techniques-lower, higher. He also rides his breaks (between chest, mixed, head, and falsetto) really well-which is difficult to do without proper technique.
that is why I love haewon she doesn't sing in really high belt, and she have such great mid belt and good low register and her tone quality omg I really love her voice
She is soo young and already is such a good singer,dancer and an amazing performer. She also enjoys what she does and it really just makes me happy just watching a passionate person perform. Not to mention her great personality, a cherry on top
@@xryvxctyrsyndry not deep, but it's full and reach tone and her tone is very rare in kpop I never heard some one in kpop have that tone (maybe pharita is just little similar)
Just because the song has high notes, doesn't meant it's actually good or you have to do it often. Speaking of high notes, for me, it was never the high note that is the problem though. But, lower notes are way more difficult to reach.
I feel like high notes are to singing what dunks are to basketball. It seems more impressive than it is because many people watching CAN'T do it. It's easy for people to convince themselves that they COULD hit layups or 3 pointers if they just PRACTICED. It's the same with singing in a lower range. People think they could do it as well as the pros if they practiced. But in BOTH cases, people don't see all the work that goes on in the background to make those "easy" things so consistent and look effortless. I may be biased, b/c I like singers who make use of their lower ranges or have that type of voice. Singers like Lee Hi, Ha Dong Qn (I'm not gonna fight Romanization on those stage names) or Big Mama as a whole. It's also one of the things I like most about STAYC: they have a range of distinct voices in their vocals.
It's also a self-perpetuating issue because producers know fans want to hear these high notes, and producers aren't always performers themselves, who know what makes good vocalists. So producers encourage their idols to continue with the high notes and fans keep eating it up online and commercially, which gives the producers more incentive to continue. Pdogg, I'm looking at you.
cough cough jyp. he sounds horrendous with his high note obssession, some of his performances makes everyone's ears bleed and he keeps pushing into his artists. still remember yeji literally going hoarse in the studio from trying to bump the notes up and he was like "no that aint enough GO HIGHER"
and she is always shake no matter what register it is 😭😭😭😭 and when she feel uncomfortable and she well lose the control over her high note she make it higher 💀
Look… I’m a diehard atiny, they’re literally my ults. But I can never EVER watch their original performance of Wonderland on Kingdom. I hear the strain in jongho’s voice and, knowing the stress and hell they’ve been through, I can only imagine how much they were ki||ing themselves everyday performing at that intensity. And jongho has a wonderful voice, everyone knows that, but he’s more than just a high note machine gun. His lower register is so warm, and so beautifully rounded and sweet. It’s really a shame what EDENARY is doing to his voice
Except his Wonderland performances recently show no strain. And the Kingdom version had many reasons why his voice sounded strained (fatigue being a main one since they had been without rest at that point for at least 36 hours).
@@kimdaniel2601 its a B5 of course he strains it after B4 when going up a whole octave to B5, no male can even support above C5 let alone B5 is like impossible lol
As an Atiny, I very much do agree with a (meanwhile widespread) criticism that Jongho has turned into a highnote jukebox. Which is certainly a shame given that he is a very skilled singer when he sings in his more comforted range. You can see as much in his covers, solo performances, and OSTs. However, what I find unfair about how you represented Jongho in this video is that all of his clips were from 2021 or even older when Ateez were still rookies. He has massively improved since then and he is still improving every day as he takes vocal lessons diligently. If you for instance compare their recent performances of Kingderland (Wonderland Kingdom Version) from Coachella fex you will hear a noticeable difference. I'm not trying to be overly defensive, your criticism of how Jongho is treated by the producers is valid and trust me, Atiny KNOW, but next time please put in some effort to find more recent clips❤
Since y'all wanna talk about Jongho's vocal technique and downplaying it for his strained high notes ONLY, let me yap about singing here instead, and also showcased what i observed his strengths and what he lacks among these areas based on listening to him for whole 5 years. In singing, there are different key areas but let me just include 3 and focus on 1 (so i will not yap any longer 😭). We have Technique, Musicality and Performance Skills. We're focusing on technique here. Vocal Technique consists of: 1. breath control - proper breath support to sustain notes, dynamic control and resonant sound. (Jongho is known to have at least 3 pairs of lungs among the fandom for how impeccably strong his breath support is, hence allowing him to do most of the high notes in their discography that y'all are criticizing a lot. Take note that breath control is also considered the foundation in singing so it really affects every areas. It is a MUST for singers to have a proper breath support.) 2. vocal placement - knowing how to direct resonance to various areas of vocal tract (chest, head, mask). (Jongho learned the arts of proper vocal placement hence why he has such wide range. Also when you think of him, you also think of resonance. He knew how to put resonance whenever it's needed. The chest voice is the lower register of the voice, while the head is the higher one.) 3. vocal registers - mastering of the chest voice, head voice, falsetto and mixed voice, allowing wider range and greater flexiblity in singing. (When you mastered the vocal placements, mastering the registers is a light work. Thus, Jongho excels in here. Though sometimes, he still do made mistakes. Ofc no one is perfect, singers will have a bad day no matter what.) 4. transitioning between registers - (common sense). (This is something that most vocalists in the new generation do not have, or have not yet mastered. Few of the exceptions are Ningning, Lily and Jongho but let's focus on Jongho (since this is about him, love the girlies tho.) I think people also call this the "flip". This is when you go from a register to a different one, flawlessly and smoothly like a baby's butt. Jongho has been literally doing this since debut, just listen to their songs, I suggest Empty Box, which is one of their recent song. Must be nice i guess.) 5. vibrato - slight fluctuations in pitch (This is literally Jongho core 😭. He's famous for this, not only his high notes. When you have a very strong stamina and breath support like him, doing this is easy-peasy. What I like about his vibrato tho is that it never falters, his is very strong, very resonant, full and complete. It is always so satisfying to hear. I have never heard a failed vibrato from him ever (but maybe some of you did and i happen to miss that so do let me know.) But yeah, vibrato is like Jongho's brand as a vocalist lol) 6. runs and riffs - melodic patterns that involves quickly moving between different notes. (I don't think there are much of him doing riffs and complicated long runs but when he do he does it right! Go and listen to his cover of Brian McKnight's Another You in Lee Mujin service. In my honest opinion, i know he could do better so i really hope he showcased more of this in their future songs or covers. 7. articulation and diction - clear and precise pronunciation and delivery of the lyrics. (This is probably Jongho's greatest weakness for me, esp when covers English songs or any other songs in another language beside Korean, but it mostly applies to most idols tho.) So yeah, this is my few cents about Jongho's singing skills. If you guys made it up to here, congrats and thank you i guess lol. Now let me give you some recommendations of Jongho's more recent singing videos and not one from Stone age lmao Lee Mujin Service Immortal Songs - So You (Solo) Ateez's Killing Voice Covers IU's Dear Name (with San) New Jeans' Ditto (with Maddox) Park Hyoshin's Wildflower (Solo) You can do search for more if you want. Coachella, Mawazine, it's all up to you. Heck you can even check the fancams of their concerts starting from 2022. Ciao!
I actually think Jongho is almost flawless when riding between and switching registers. His Immortal Songs appearances (think this one was the So You cover) demonstrates this so beautifully. That cover should be a go to any time there is a discussion about Jongho’s vocals. I think Celebrate is a good example of his runs and riffs-and when they performed this in their last concert series he would often change it up. He also changes up the runs in Fireworks and several others. I feel like he does more runs than riffs. I think the Ditto cover is a great feature of what he can do with his voice and not a single belt to be found. His karaoke sessions are the proof that he can do vocally what we hear without the studio magic.
thank you for both of your guys’ comments im glad that you two who know what your talking about are not only pointing put what he needs to improve on but also praising his singing unlike this channel who loves to make jongho out to be a “bad” singer
@@kimdaniel2601 yeah his transitions between registers are almost flawless, he's probably the best in this out of all the vocalist in 4th Gen. As for runs and riffs, yeah i mentioned that he doesn't showcased that much of him doing such, he does runs in some of their songs but complicated long runs, i think the closest that he did was his Brian McKnight cover. Overall, he's still a great singer, who works hard to improved and works harder to sing live and deliver the fruit of his hardwork. That's all that matters.
My issue is that with Jongho you are using old footage. Why not use some of his recent karaoke sessions or their Coachella performances. Or some of his OSTs, Immortal Songs appearances (he’s been twice as a soloist and Ateez 6 times)? Also Jongho still takes vocal lessons and takes steps to protect his voice. I enjoy Jongho’s voice and his OSTs Gravity and A Day are both fantastic.
Talking about the high notes obsession there's a certain emotional climax it presents mostly when good build up accompanies it something that kpop often lacks.... the other parts are important like using falsetto to end a song or low notes for the build up but high notes are the part we tend to remember..for example fur elise live performance has exquisite vocal moments but what would you say is the highlight
One thing I love about exo is the fact that they actually explore lower register. They are the few groups I see play around with lower notes like how they do with higher notes. Like half of them have good technique in lower register and they make use of that.
Tell me you haven't heard Jongho without telling you haven't heard him, Jongho's literally one of the best vocalists in kpop. He's not called 4th gen vocalist bc he can hit high notes, but bcoz of his range & techniques. He's trained by same vocal coach as Baekhyun Exo & Haechan NCT and was chosen has one of his top 3 students by that teacher. And now, he's being trained by same vocal coach's daughter who trained Michael Jackson. Not only this, she's so impressed by him that she requested if she can come to Korea to teach him more. And here are self-proclaimed vocal experts giving their opinions lol, keep going.
@@gelesic6757 He actually told it himself that he's taking lessons from Kathleen Riggs (the daughter of vocal coach who trained Michael Jackson & Steve wonders, she's trained singers like Madison Beer, Weekend, Dua lipa) on toktoq live during Coachella time.
People are obsessed with high notes, with sales, with music show wins, number of YT and/or insta subs. We manage our appreciation like our bank account. The more the better. And we are losing the value of our artistic appreciation, of our emotions, to numbers. Scorched by the scores. Underrated. Overrated. But "rated" in each case. "Think" with your heart, and stop thinking that artists are like stock options, or keys are like the horizontal bar in pole vaulting. I wish I could express more, sorry for my poor English 😅
Absolutely agree. You will notice a change in yourself as a fan as soon as you join stan twitter. They care sooooo much about charting, having a "clean","good" reputation, be good looking, having good streams and sales like what happened about caring only about the music and maybe some variety content. You are disqualified as a person if you accidentally make a mistake. Going viral, having a lot of wins matters soo much to them it makes me laugh honestly. I Joined twitter for like a month and immediately left. People there are honestly psychotic and i worry about the teenagers who join it and ruin themselves to "fit" these psychos
Not sure why people focus so much on Jongho's high notes. I'm starting to think they've become desensitized or they ceased to be in awe, but I am not. He clearly is a skilled singer, if not he wouldn't be invited to all these shows to sing with veterans. He also has demonstrated a variety of ranges, and his vibrato is what impresses me the most he sings like a tenor or classical type in my humble opinion. This video is unnecessarily targeting him, since it makes it seem like he's not a overall skilled singer and just a belter. Yes he belts but he also SINGS and beautifully! Only a few kpop acts of his age range can compete with him.
No, it just shows that even skilled singers can struggle out of their comfort zones. He also showcased Nayeon and Belle while he praised them in his previous videos. So one clip wont make a vocalist look bad, dont worry
@@Nhaila no the video just highlights the obvious fact that he’s made to sing way out of his comfortable range. He is skilled yes but that’s not the point of the video.
My issue is he used Jongho as a focus point and didn't really say much about him unlike others and from his past videos he doesn't seem to favour Jongho much. In Kingdom there was a whole episode centered on vocalists where Jongho showcased great signing qualities even high notes, no mention of that but just that one dramatized scene. Yes all singers can have off moments but that's not what I understood from this video. No I do not believe Jongho is signing out of his comfort zone, he is working with elite specialists and if they thought he couldn't hit those notes they would not have him do them.
Honestly, as a vocalist I completely agree with all of this, I might not be good but I will always prefer sing a song in my range and nailed it with good technicalities rather than go for something that too far too hard for me to keep my stability,however the song to be chose for sang is also MAJOR factor to singer (including singer’s tone (versatalities is also needed in different variety type of song to provide dynamic) ,range,vocal agility) it’s really sad to see some of the good singer abusing their voice to sound higher,but actually in fact this is damaging to their vocal chord badly.
i get that this channel is in favour of female vocalists and singers and thats fine because it is your channel but if you are going to use male idols in your videos why not do some proper research? this channel always talks pessimistic of jongho in terms of vocals and always uses the same old clips and doesn't have the care to check out more of jongho's recent singing you need to check out many events where jongho displayed his beautiful vocals, especially in coachella where he with his members done a ~40min performance that happened in the desert where its hot, sweaty, windy yet they still managed to be one of the best if not the best performers there. it disheartens me how you, a vocal critic, isn't bothered to check out jongho's singing journey from debut till now yet you still talk poorly of him. its not that you don't have the time, because how else are you doing all these other videos despite the exams? please dont see this as hate as i am just expressing my disappointment
I've been saying the same thing like why are they always showing the same clips from 2018-2021??? And the supposed "better" clips that they included at the end wasn't even considered as one of his best moment 💀 Coachella, Mawazine, Dingo killing Voice, Immortal Songs and a plethora of his covers, solo, duet or as a group are literally right here in the internet, it will only take few clicks for them to find it 😭 tbh i feel like they just want to nitpick his vocals and give a platform for the "hate disguised as criticisms" from kpop stans.
This is why sometimes i kinda feel guilty enjoying Siyeon's high notes. Like i know they are kinda unhealthy but they still sounded beautiful especially every time she adds vibrato. Her singing has a lot of personality and i cant really see her outside the rock-dominated style of singing yet (although she can do other concepts too like some of hwr covers and solos). Currently she's in a hiatus huhuhu right before their comeback. I hope she takes her time to heal and recover.
Jongho is famous for continually developing his skill, he has vocal lessons at least weekly and takes extra ones with local instructors when Ateez are abroad. He went back to LA the next day after Coachella to take lessons from Kate Riggs, one of the most famous vocal technique and therapy coaches in the world. She was so satisfied working with him she said she'd like to come to Korea to train him further. He might be most famous for his high notes bc they're the most noticeable in their title tracks but it's by no means all he can do and showing him multiple times as a ~negative example contrasted to all those other vocalists with a different range is a bit weird. There's a reason he keeps getting invited to Immortal Songs solo and being praised by the veterans of the music industry rather than just kpop fans.
Hi, I noticed that as well with the editing in this video. It was really not necessary. Often some old out of context clips plus that one from Kingdom are used in a pejorative way whilst there being all these great clips that could have been used. Also he has range, he sings highs and lows, he's very trained and has been praised up and down by professionals. I'm pretty sure he is sleeping very comfortably at night, thanks!
You 2 get that nobody questions Jongho's vocals, but the excessive & repetitive extremely high note he does EACH TIME per title track right?? His ballads and covers back both him as a vocalist as his talent up, but when him/the production teams end up giving Jongho the EXACT SAME ROLE and purpose in every comeback (these vocals and the eternal highnote) it might get tiring and become the focus point of his vocals - precisely due to ATEEZ making it the focus point for Jongho even as a member -.
And not using a single example more recent than Kingdom. Like talking about a vocalist completely as a negative but not using any of their recent work, his OSTs, his Karaoke sessions, or his Immortal Songs appearances is lazy research.
@@chromaticasforecast4419excessive and repetitive? really. I find they use it strategically, when it calls for it, you do know they have a large repertoire of songs with variety of styles. He is known for his high notes, that's a stylistic choice, and what is wrong with that since he can do it well and he is the main vocalist. Ateez do what they want with their music, similarly to every other musicians, it's their creation and it doesn't need to be for everyone but let me tell you when you hear his voice live there is nothing more enjoyable to the ears.
@@Nhaila "really" yes. excessive when the highnote seems to serve as more of a shock factor required for the now formulaic approach to the "ATEEZ title track" rather than a melodic resource, and repetitive when that becomes basically the main role of Jongho as a member when the structure of their biggest songs only use Jongho for this (at least their title tracks, which serve as the showcase of the group for the general public). We can talk about his solos or covers, but that doesn't go beyond the fandom. And outside of atiny, Jongho is reduced to the impressive highnote vocalist of the group but that's it. This is reductive and a shame for a talented singer imo And it is strategical, but precisely that approach to an already overused formula becomes reductive for Jongho's abilities and purpose as an ATEEZ member. Seonghwa shocked as a rapper in Bouncy despite him being a vocalist, Hongjoon sings and does hignotes even when he's a rapper and San gets diversity in his vocal approach for example; why can't Jongho do smth else? He may not want to for whatever reason and that's ok it is his free choice, just as I'm free to say what I saud
A video about high notes in K-pop without including BTOB’s EUNKWANG is criminal! But thank you for appreciating one of the best k-pop vocalists APINK’s Eunji!
Can’t take K-pop stans seriously when it comes to vocal analysis. There is a misconception that the only reason why Jongho is called the best 4th gen vocalist is because of high notes. Critically acclaimed vocalists and industry veterans know he is talented because his range impressive, he is really stable, his breath control and technique isn’t lacking. Making smear videos of him won’t make your faves better than him this goes for the people in the comment section too. Also vocal tone is subjective, it has nothing to do with skill so calling someone a bad vocalist because you don’t like their tone is stupid.
High notes, many times, can be a marketing tactic. Belle said she knew that they needed to stand out IMMEDIATELY being from a small company and all, so she decided to include whistle notes in the debut, something unsual in kpop that she could do. Overall I think it was a great choice, because it DID attract attention, and people checked them out enough to actually see her biggest strenght as a vocalist now
It'd be nice if you could show the good and the bad clips of the same artist. Not just throw shade to some and than show the better clips of some. All the idols you showed in the first part of your video have great moments as well. 😅
I really like YG not pushing Rora to do crazy high notes and let her showcase her beautiful lower range but I also hate how I dont hear Ahyeon going below a certain note
And here it is. When Rora doesn't sing high notes then credit YG for doing the right thing but the criticism on Ahyeon is when she does it, it's 100% her fault.
Now let us show actual clips of Jongho showcasing his best vocals, and not only those flawed old clips of him from 2018-2021. You can even see how bad the resolution are for majority of the videos here, they are literally antique af. It's literally 2024 rn, can't we move tf on 😭
I don’t think the video is meant to be malicious-it’s to showcase what they can improve on and be better. Sorry to break it to you but he still strains alot of times and it’s unhealthy. He’s a little better now but there should always be a room for improvement like healthier techniques. Even some of the world’s best singers start out strainy, improved a lot and still continue to improve. So it’s about time you grow up and stop meatriding and act like your oppa is so perfect
@@billliealim no matter the intention the research is done extremely poorly, he already improved a lot and sang the same high notes with much better technique, so what's the point of using the same clips (multiple time by the way) from years ago and some even from predebute when there is A LOT OF content that showcase the real situation at the moment? And it's easy to find, much easier than some random predebute clip. Not to mention that Jongho isn't just his high notes, and the people who praise his vocals (real professionals) know that very well, only kpop stans (that are not his fans, because his fans know better for the most part) focus on his high notes only (which is exactly the same thing creator does every time he mentions him). Like, yes, he isn't always perfect, and ATEEZ rarely have any time to rest, so obviously there will be mistakes and imperfections and that's okay, as you said even the best vocalists have bad moments, but I don't see how using the same outdated and not relevant clips helps the conversation about vocals when the situation is completely different now? Why talk about things that should be improved and then purposely ignore the improvement? And that's not the first time with this creator, I get this videos in my recommendations along with other videos about vocals and this creator just seems to really not be interested in ATEEZ at all and it's okay but then just don't talk about them? Why do you feel the need to talk about them when you don't want to do a proper research or even just watch more than one performance that is up to date and not from 3+ years ago? There is so much content that show their voices without any postproduction editing and he just always decides to use the weirdest examples that doesn't show anything at all? The same goes for San when he mentioned him. And San isn't even the vocalist I prefer in ATEEZ but the choises of clips? That's the best your research can be done? Literally the only song from their coachella performance he used was wonderland (a couple of moments) and this song isn't even that vocally interesting. Not interested in a group/don't like them = no need to talk about them and pretend to care and seriously analise them, just ignore them, it's that simple. These guys get enough hate on every day basis, they could do without people creating safe space for spreading even more misinformation and hate about them
@@billliealimlmfao all i said was to include a more recent clips instead of the old ones and here i am getting called meat riding. Where did i even say that he's perfect, my point flew right past your airhead, tone down that misogyny a bit.
@@billliealimif it’s to showcase what can be made better than all the more reason to use recent clips. There is a plethora of clips-Immortal Songs, OSTs, his karaoke sessions, Lee Mujin, Killing Voice, etc.
@@billliealimNo one is saying he's perfect, but he's literally one of the best vocalists in that industry who can actually pull off high notes. There's a reason why only he's invited to immortal songs high note episode where he competed with vocal legends (and that included actual k-vocalists not just kpop vocalists) double his age & was highly praised, that too when he had an allergy that day & wasn't in his best condition.
It's a very selfish reasoning, but I would love a lower range in songs so that those of us who can't hit those sky-high notes can sing along with their music better 😆
I’m surprised Taehyun of TXT didn’t make it into the video, he’s struggled in the past making those high notes come out sounding healthy and full. I think he has improved a bit but I worry about him training and using is voice safely.
He would not want to cheese off that fandom by bringing negativity to Taehyun just for clicks. No, he has Jongho for that...massive click returns from the negativity without the massive fandom push back. WIN WIN
@@kaylabunnie5283 lol fair, though Jongho is much more known for his prowess with high notes so I guess you can take it as a compliment. As an Atiny I don't mind it because I also care about Jongho maintaining good vocal health.
I feel like this also affected Yuju during her time in Gfriend. She sounded great in almost every register but her high notes were what got her and Gfriend the most attention back then.
this video only uses old videos of jongho in his rookie days. he still gets vocal lessons and has improved so so much and i hate this narrative that he just sounds like he’s screaming because it’s just false.
One if the biggest issues I have with pushing high notes is Yujin from Ive. They keep giving her super high notes, higher than Liz's, and she sounds so strained.
I love I AM to death, but ever since Liz and Yujin have gotten their “High Note Certified” badges from casual listeners, it has led to some concerning high notes. I loved Heya, but I always end up tuning out Yujin’s high notes at the end.
When you look at thise good examples, its not just one boring high note. There is texture and tone. Its nto juat squeezing out a long note at the high end of your range, which producers seem to have forgotten.
Being back altos! Make diversified vocal performances cool again! Me personally, id like to see more runs or riffing again, reminiscent to the gospel/rnb inspired styles that were all the rage in 2/3rd(?) gen.
Part of what is concerning here, too, is how many younger trainees have been debuting of late. While all K-pop idols typically start young, the fact of the matter is that your vocal cords are still developing in your teens and early 20s. Women's voices do not fully mature until about the age of 30. So, the younger they are when they start consistently straining for those high notes, the more likely it is to not only damage but potentially alter their vocal health and quality overall as they age. The key here, no matter the age of the idol, is to provide them with the right training. Vocal foundation = vocal (and maybe even career) longevity. I hope these idols can somehow receive the musical and physical education/training they both need and deserve.
Why is it that when someone wants to roast or disparage Jongho they go to these same set of clips from his rookie years and Kingdom (April 2021) where it is well documented that he was suffering from exhaustion because of his super packed schedule? So many people here proclaiming to be Ateez fans (liars) and so "concerned" that the high notes hide that Jongho is really an overrated, under developed vocalist with bad vocal technique who is being taken advantage of by bad producers. Last year, this content creator placed Jongho at #6 when ranking active BG main vocalist (Kihyun, DK, Doyoung, Taeil, and Seungkwan were the top 5) yet, even then, you got the feeling that he gave the rank grudgingly. Criticism of Jongho's vocals is based more on subjective taste than on objective measures. People, including this content creator, need to admit that Jongho is a great vocalist; you just don't like his "tone" and hate that such a voice has brought him and Ateez attention and success as kpop artists. He talked about this on Lee Mujin's show; how people were able to acknowledge his vocal ability but greatly disliked his voice as it was not a "pop" voice. People discouraged him from pursing becoming an idol because they said his voice was unpleasant and unappealing and not suited for kpop. Jongho is a rockstar being judged inadequate by a bunch of biased kpoppies. Luckily, for "real" Atiny, Jongho found a place with a group/producers that creates a lot of music that is suited to his type of voice. He has said that he wants to be vocally challenged, to push and explore is boundaries and Ateez songs do that for him. He and the other Ateez members still take vocal lessons from legitimate coaches as a regular part of their ongoing training to develop and improve their sound. Jongho and Ateez have improved so much since Kingdom and continue too but no one wants to really acknowledge nor accept it.
Yes. I hate the fact that we keep seeing reactors (including this one) who use clips from years ago and don’t even bother to listen to solo work, Immortal Songs, or even his recent karaoke sessions. Nope we get trainee Jongho and Kingdom (there are even a ton of more recent Wonderland Symphony no 9 performances with good technique).
I would say that this specific video is not criticizing Jongho as a vocalist, but the praise his high note in one clip and in Kingdom got, which is acknowledged as affected by his exhaustion during the show. People as a whole do generalize his voice too much based on trainee/debut clips, I agree with you on that.
@@faiththomas6137 well if we ever get that video where this reactor has any praise for him I might agree with you but this reactor mostly just posts negative comments about Jongho when he uses Jongho. Even the bg ranking said almost nothing positive about Jongho (and that one relied on old trainee day clips and used nothing within the last few years for evaluation). But I get that this reactor doesn’t like BGs and probably isn’t going to put real effort and time into the evaluation. I don’t think he used any clips here that weren’t used in the bg ranking.
As Filipino who loves belting, there's a technique in reaching it and there should not be a strain heard. If there is IT IS NOT GOOD SINGING. You belt on a song for intense emotion or putting emphasis or putting climax for the song . I don't know why they are belting when the song does not require for it. I appreciate the tone and texture of a voice because it is more interesting and uniquely the artist voice. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN IDOL AND AN ARTIST. I will not label Bruno Mars an idol but AN ARTIST. The only kpop that I stan most through the years for me is 2NE1. Check their song "it hurts" the song connects with the audience' emotion which is lost on this generation.
I've always been able to tell when they're straining vocals, i always felt bad when idols were being made to sing out of their range especially because they never really look confident (why would you be confident) when performing it
Aaahh .. today's video is chef's kiss! I enjoyed it so much, all the points you made I totally agreed with. D.O's voice is like a warm blanket, a precious gem wrapped in velvet 💋 (I find this quality in Lee Mujin's voice as well) Kiss of Life are just SO GOOD 🔥 Protect these gals at all costs. High notes are only good if you can pull it off without being visibly *strained* because it ends up not giving the wow moment you were hoping for. Not to mention detrimental to your vocal chords. AND FINALLY, CONGRATULATIONS ON PASSING *ALL* OF YOUR EXAMS DOCTOR! 👏👏🎊🎊
As a person who has always loved the warmer and deeper tones, I completely agree. My favorite singers (even outside of kpop) are always the ones that sing in a lower register. And also, it's so easy to identify who has a good technique and who doesn't. There's a lot that come into singing and it's unfortunate that the majority of people only pay attention to high notes.
I think high notes when used properly could elevate the emotions of a song a lot. Sadly, most Kpop producers just use them to make idols sing really high to impress audiences without much meaning behind it. An example of high notes accompanying emotions are the one down here, a rare case in Kpop and one of my fav: ua-cam.com/video/Z83Oz5vFQns/v-deo.htmlsi=zSkbfFihXZ9ZZRCh
I don’t like how you did NOT put a single clip showcasing Jongho’s exceptional technique. why are we acting like he doesn’t have the same vocal coach as baekhyun and haechan that I don’t see being shaded here. that same vocal coach stated that he has one of the best techniques among the people she follows so… i feel like this video just wanted to defame/put jongho in a bad light and I did not like it at all. you just put 2 clips of his high notes and didn’t even bother searching for clips where he uses his lower register, this says enough to be honest.
I blame labels and fans alike for this, labels push idols (esp main/lead vocalists) to hit highnotes knowing they're straining their voices just so they would be known as "good vocalists", this not only damage their voices but also make them overshadow other great vocalists who don't focus on highnotes as much.
I think if people have never trained to sing - which is the majority - it is hard for them to differentiate good vocal technique from a bad one. and high notes is kind of an easy way to say if someone is obviously bad.
Well, when you showed the high notes I had to volume down immediately, cuz my ears couldn't handle it. While playing "Forgotten greatness" part I felt goosebumps! I agree with every word you said. E.g I love Jimin's high voice, but when he goes too high you can see him struggle and it just doesn't sound good. Vocalist shouldn't force themselves to do things like that unless they mastered technique, that allows it.
My opinion before watching the video: lots of high notes are UNNECESSARY and often ANNOYING and too forced to prove prove prove your abilities. Doing high notes is ofc impressive, but delivering it well, when needed in a song, in a subtle and natural manner is the best. I'd rather listen to a more groovy, rnb, soul, low registered group with a good song without high notes rather than a group screaming every second in a bad song with annoying high notes.
IKR it’s so annoying the obsession with high note as if that determines their capability and as a person who likes music rather than typical Kpop highnotes or raps I like Newjeans and people are like they don’t have vocals… but bro that’s how their music is we can check out covers to see their vocals
I'm kinda worried with Belle's vocal honestly, KIOF almost sings live everytime so I'm afraid that it will damage her vocal in the long run 😢 Glad that in Sticky she did not have that crazy ahh high notes
Belle isn't Ailee nor Celine Dion who sings the ENTIRE song. Nor does every KIOF song requires her to do so. Learn to reason with logic if you want to be taken seriously AKA respect inteady spewing nnon-sense in the sake of "worrying"
This video is so necessary, you are completely right about this obsession. I have mentioned this video in my last post (I hope you don't mind) to spread this knowlege about proper singing. Congratulations.
I feel like the high note obsession warped a lot of people's perceptions of what Solar's solo music should sound like. When I first heard Spit It Out I was kinda let down but I didn't yet understand that Mamamoo's Solar and Solar the soloist were not the same person. Once that dawned on me I finally saw that Solar sees her solo work as a way to play with and experiment with her voice. Trying all sorts of genres and arrangements. Yes, she can do some awesome high notes but I love her voice when it's a low purr. These days she tends to leave her high notes for Solarsido covers and her Solar Emotion project(covers of ballads) and ngl I started loving her even more. Once you add in her work in Mamamoo+ and as a musical actress you get a picture of an amazing singer who sounds different in each project but always sounds like herself at the same time. PS - Siyeon is more responsible on tour than on music shows or in the recording booth. Probably because she's far from trainers and her GP. The last few albums the producers have been giving more high notes to SuA, Yoohyeon, and even JiU in order to balance things out. Just not the final one. 😂I really thought SuA had the final high note in Bon Voyage until Siyeon quashed that idea a second later. I might be the only Somnie alive who wants Siyeon to sing more soft songs like Entrancing or the Oort Cloud cover. Siyeon's low tones are so warm and cozy!
i think the obsession might come because of the fans that are obsessed with the objective "singing high notes makes you a good singer" no matter how strained it sounds
It's really disappointing how pervasive that line of thinking is. Vocal technique is half of what makes vocals appealing. Tone is also very important. I find in my experience that listening to a trained vocalist (high notes, low notes, comfort zone, etc.) is far more preferable than hearing strained, incredibly ear shattering notes. I actually am very impressed and drawn to lower registers as they often feel more... luscious? Rich? I can't think of the correct word lol but they sound like smooth silk to my ears
@@Chuckles_The_Echidna i agree with what you said about the lower register. i do not mind listening to vocalists that aren't the most technical advanced (wonyoung for example i just really really enjoy her tone) even though i know they need vocal training.
Like for and its not only kpop fans I've met people in general who feel if you can high note no matter how it sounds that is what it means to be a good singer
@@Chuckles_The_Echidna yessssss tone quality is very important, like you don't want to sound colorless and only care about the technique
@@straawberryy me too, I love mina tone and style, she is one of my favorite vocalist even tho she lack alot in singing but her tone is just SO GOOD to hear
Every time I see that IU high note I pray a hail mary for her vocal cords.
I haven't seen a video of her singing it without straining hard enough to burst a blood vessel, yet people go crazy over it. I always thought I was the problem, like I'm missing something.
It's low-key funny to me. A lot of her own songs are out of her range and she strains them. In survival shows, they make even less competent singers sings the songs she herself can't sing😂 idk why I find the irony so funny
@@allieannette3712 I think that's because she doesn't sang that song too often that it would damage her vocal cords. She got recommendations from her doctors to not sing it way too often.
@@emanueltheodorus1056Glad someone told her the truth and is looking out for her vocal chords health and she's following suit.😅
Well, normally she doesn't do the high note in good day
Vocal tone is a big factor on high notes. It can go from impressive to annoying real quick. 💀
It’s goes deeper than vocal tone. Music context such as genre is also an important factor. For example, High notes from someone with a soft tone works the best with rnb. High notes from someone with a sharp is effective in rock. It’s all about what’s appropriate for the song.
Vocal technique***
As important as technique, agility, and breath control is...Vocal tone is definitely what's one of the most important things to me. You can hit a note without straining it..but if you sound awful....do we really wanna hear it?
@@lincolneyar8269 technique is important for sure and its importance can't really be understated but even if you have good technique you could have a really grating tone. like i genuinely kind of can't stand sopranos with really high and light voices doing high belts because their voices are so light and piercing. that's not a matter of technique. but a matter of their natural timbre
@@T_katsyeah
for instance winter and ningning of aespa. The first one’s highnotes are kinda annoying but ning is doing this really cool
Its quite good to see how Belle sort of recognised (or not lol) the strain she has been putting her voice lately and with recent comeback, she has been showing more of her lower register on the bridge instead of high notes like how she’d usually does it. It quite good but to untrained ears, people dont see this shit because all they care is her straining her voice to hit those high notes
She probably also noticed the risk on her vocal health and toned it down to avoid an injury
@@aeluminous I kinda always noticed she struggled with certain whistle notes, I just didn't wanna say anything so her fandom doesn't jump me
@@mymelodramaticanticsthe most important thing is she can sing plus kissy are nice don't worry 😂
it's sad to see everyone straining their vocal chords just to sound impressive
omg... same pfp?! also agree with ur comment, bcs high notes aren't everything when it comes to vocals
@@insxmniac_54 same pfp !! :DD
also, you're so right. there's so much more to singing than just highnotes, people should really start to realize that
like companies need to realize if idols can’t do a highnote without straining, then just don’t make them😭 for example, yujin of ive gets really high vocals even though she is an underdeveloped vocalist
@@skittle2821 frfr 😭 every time i hear her sing her highnote in i am, i always cringe a bit cuz it's usually flat 💀
Sohyang really need to teach them all
Not only overly obsessed with high notes, but the kpop industry needs to stop forcing idols to sing entire songs outside their vocal range *cough* JYP *cough* Go listen to Panorama by IzOne. Fantastic song that sounds like it's sung by Alvin and the Chipmunks for no good reason.
Fr that panorama song always sounds like it's pitched up or something.
I remember when Twice cameback with "i can't stop me", OMG i the way Jihyo and Nayeon (specially Nayeon) forced their voice, i could never understand what was the purpose of giving them such impossible high note, the girls are good enough and don't need to reach those limits to show their talent
💀
Almost every twice and izone songs 😭 like I love them but everytime they sing some of their songs live they sound like they're pushing and straining so hard just to reach that high note. Their main vocalists have so much potential (yena, yuri, nayeon, jihyo etc.) But they're singing songs way out of their range (although I'd say they can handle them IF they have more proper training). They need to give them songs that fit them so they can shine especially in live singing
@@gial5338 ICSM is vocally explosive especially for nayeon's part in a sense as she have to shout but not really vocally straining, so not a perfect example in this context
the worst thing is that almost every case they sound more like theyre screaming instead of singing
Singing high notes without having great vocal resonance to back it up sounds like its just screeching/screaming. It's not impressive at all. 😂
hurts my ears every time. Flabbergasted every time fans praise these clearly strained vocals.
@@Akkochan123 Yes. It just sounds like screaming a lot of the time, but the only idol you can say that about without getting a lot of pushback is Hwang Yeji which is really unfair
Well... Resonance on its own is pretty much everything in a voice, so it would mean doing high belts/mixes without even going into the territory of a singing-sound
@@Chuckles_The_Echidna there are ‘main/lead’ vocalists with worse pitch problems
@@ttteea I agree
speaking of high notes, lily's my favorite her parts are crazy high but seem so easy for her and she does not sound ear bleeding to me
i've never heard anyone sing with such a powerful chest in my life. i love her
Nah her high notes hurt my ears. Her voice as a whole is so annoying
@@dumpaduhof course coming from an aespa stan itself
@@BaeYeonSae. dont put that on aespa fans. I love me some lily / nmixx and also aespa. We love vocals in this house!
@@BaeYeonSae. People can have opinions regardless of the groups they stan? Wtf
The trend of considering high notes as the critical measure of vocal ability in Korea, since early 2010, may be influenced by professional singing competition programs like "I'm a singer", "Immortal Song" and"King of Mask Singer". In these shows, the majority of winners were the top tier singers extremely good in the high note, for example, So Hang, Ki-Young Park and Yeon Woo Ha. Unfortunately, it made a tendency for the Korean public to become excessively fixated on high notes, IMHO.
It could also be that this obsession comes from korea's conservative/ traditional outlook even on music and now its become the norm to find only high notes impressive also because in most asian countries+ korea ballads were always popular, here in asia its kinda like.. the pop of asia is ballads east asia, southeast asia, south asia etc ballads were popular everywhere even before many asian countries became independent so maybe(probably) that perception & expectations for ballads trickled down even to the next generations.
what's important to note is that all those singers have many other things going for them that isn't just high notes. Sohyang has clarity and raw emotion, Park Kiyoung has versatility, musicality and artistry, and Ha Hyunwoo has style and being a fantastic performer. These idols are tending to only be seen for their high notes and little else, which might make them feel like they HAVE to do them
Ahyeon girl ily but you were literally screaming....
Ikr😭 Im crying everytime I hear that
@@Milan20997 fr it's so hard to defend her
Whenever someone accuses idols of screaming I am always like “No they aren’t screaming” but this time Ahyeon's obviously screaming I can’t defend her 😭
@@Verowinday777 same 🥲 but i'm glad she seems like listened to the criticism
@@Hellokitty_391 the fact that the only idols screaming g her sister the other people in the video and not Ahyeon lmao because her high note sound amazing compared to the other in the video 😂
Glad to see Seulgi included - she is so underestimated as a vocalist but actually form the vocal backbone of RV along with Wendy. Seulgi does not have crazy high notes but sings well within her range.
Thats why i love Ningning soo much iam obsessed with her lower register she doesn’t sing high like her vocal chord is going to break she know her comfort range and sing in her own way❤
Yeah I noticed she often softens her voices as she reaches higher notes to prevent herself from straining
To be fair I'm pretty sure sm makes winter strain it however in recent comebacks her vocal tone has become a lot better
@@anisaafsar4528 yeh at their early debut they let her belting too much but she improved as her stain note turn into her relax range plus she has great technique like vibrato,breath control etc
@@Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhh8I've noticed Winter sounds better in Live than studio for highnotes, might come from technique or mixing
@@anisaafsar4528 yes she is getting comfortable with high belt
As a kyungsoo fan it has been slightly annoying seeing people saying things like he hasn't been using his voice to its full potential in his solos just because he doesn't do high note filled songs when anyone with working ears can see how absolutely amazing he is in every single song and even though they're not belty they are still incredibly hard to sing and he is ao effortless with his voice and vocal technique that they seem easy to sing
His singing is always filled with emotion, and that really is a difficult thing to achieve. I have yet to see a voice with more emotion and an interesting texture, except for him and Jonghyun. Maybe also Woosung
I agree some people often forget that he's just as great as baekhyun and chen and that he's one of the main vocalists for a reason
Definitely not me. His resonance ❤ he can belt but since its not piercing, looks like he don't sing high enough i guess thats wwhat most people think 😂
I think the reason why stans clamor onto high notes so much is because they don’t get to see their faves do much else. Not a lot of idols have the technique to play around with other aspects of singing. So many struggle with supporting their notes. Others struggle with pitch. Forget about vocal agility with some.
When we look at the recent generation of western artists praised for their vocals (Ariana, Demi, Dinah, Perrie, Tori, JoJo, etc.), look at how they’re able to bring so many tools to the table. I think it was Whitney that said something in an interview along the lines of how having a better grasp of vocal techniques allowed her to do more in her music. And not because she could, because she wanted to. I think a great example is Demi’s “Stone Cold”. We know that crazy high note in the bridge. But then she changed the arrangement for the Billboard’s Women In Music Award’s show with a lower high note. She’s capable of singing the song either way. But she chooses which one she thinks works best.
A lot of KPop idols don’t have that choice. Their technique is so underdeveloped and limited that they sometimes even struggle with the high notes that separate them from their peers. So, when fans don’t get to experience listening to an artist that possesses a full range of vocal skills, high notes become the one and only thing that stands out amongst a bunch of monotone singing.
I really hope companies start investing more and more time into cultivating strong vocal technique. Not only is it good in the long term, but it also diversifies what artists can do. A lot of people have been feeling discontent with KPop (especially boy groups) in finding a lot of artists’ discographies to sound similar to each other. When you have the ability to explore other sounds because your voice isn’t limited, the sky’s the limit. We’ve seen this with Mamamoo, Red Velvet, NMIXX, and Kiss Of Life. R&B, Jazz, Mix Pop, etc. They wouldn’t be able to handle these genres if the members weren’t competent vocally.
Anyways, that’s my two cents. Or two books lol Great vid as always! Your content never disappoints and always opens my eyes to aspects of KPop I failed to notice! ❤️
interesting opinion❤
Always love your added two cents! And thank you!😁
while i do agree with you, i think most fans simply don't have the understanding of voice as an instrument that's necessary to consider other parts of vocal technique also important, let alone more important than simply hitting a high note. high notes are spectacle and that's the most that fans are going to understand.
I just discovered your channel and I've been binging for like 2 hours. To me it's so shocking that kpop idols undergo super rigorous training for years and then they debut and they can barely sing... It's like, what? What were they teaching them? To dance, sure, but vocally? And I agree, technique is better than range, for sure!! But I also feel most kpop fans (myself included) don't know enough about singing to appreciate what the idols can do and think high notes is the end all of singing. Moreover, people think just hitting the high note is enough but it's obvious, now that you've pointed it out, how Belle isn't as skilled in signing super high notes as she is in other areas. This was a very interesting video to watch, thank you!
@@LupescupeFirst of all, thank you so much! It means a lot and hopefully I’ll continue to upload content that you enjoy!
And second, there’s definitely a ring of truth to that. A lot of stans don’t possess the background (whether it be educational or simply what they listen to) to have experienced all that a well developed voice has to offer. I hope that they explore outside of KPop both to see what they’re missing out on (and to expand their musical palette).
I definitely think companies focus mainly on stamina. They can hide poor vocal technique with lip syncing. And they don’t need to worry about stage presence because plenty of idols can get away with just being attractive and fans think they’re a great performer. But they can’t hide it if an idol is dying on stage because they’re not able to handle a 3.5 minute performance without losing their breath and looking like they’re about to topple over. Companies probably figure that until they can find a way to hide idols without any stamina, that’s what they need to prioritize in the idol’s training period. Everything else can either come later or a trainee/idol has to take the initiative to develop those skills outside of scheduled practice times.
I love jongho and ahyeon but im praying for their vocal cords
Jongho vocal cords are doing just fine...ask his vocal coaches.
@@kaylabunnie5283 this is not a drag😭 it’s good he actually takes vocal lessons regularly but realistically it’s not beneficial for anyone to put that much pressure on their voice so often no matter how talented they are or how wide their range is
@@i_332 According to the man himself, his health (he has allergies, he needs good sleep, his voice doesn't like the cold/lots of air conditioning, etc.) affects his vocal ability more than anything else. The higher range is more natural to him but people don't want to accept that.
@@kaylabunnie5283 i’m not going to argue with you about that and we both can agree that he is an amazing vocalist which is why I hope he doesn’t push himself too much now so he is able to continue singing in the future
so fr😭😭
I’m only a casual fan of Ateez but I feel bad how they make Jongho sing in that high range all the time. I feel like he could probably do a variety of cool vocals but it’s always that high wailing during his part.
As an Ateez Ulter…. I completely agree with you. He has an incredible voice, his ballads are tear-inducing, his softer vocals are so sweet and clear, but all we get half the time is yelly belts. Their music is very intense, so I could see why they’d want to make his vocals more intense, but like…. At what cost lol? I feel like I can’t even say anything as an Atiny without people getting defensive, but I am not saying and have NEVER said he can’t sing. Just that I wish they’d use his voice differently more often. I feel like his high belts would only get better too, if given time to breaaaaathe in between them, ya know?
Ikr I'm so worried about his vocal chords 😬
He can and does, but he also likes doing the high notes and has the most extensive vocal training. His vocal coach was the same as Baekhyun's and is taking vocal lessons with Kathleen Riggs. You should check out some of the songs he sang for OSTs like Gravity or A Day and his solo song Everything.
That's his choice i think, he likes singing rlly high
i don't like his high notes, his singing is very "yelling" for me, no hate to him personally. this is why i don't really listen to ateeze, for example the song inception was going really good sort of melodic still a bit techno and then suddenly his "deep in my heart, deep in my soul... flashing light" the part is so ear straining i can't fully listen even though i liked the og concept. ateez have their own audience in that case, not every group is for everyone
DO tho. He definitely can sing HIGH. But not coz he can, he have to. Everyone loves his chill songs. It's the voice color that people need to appreciate.
speaking of lower registers NINGNING for sure has one of, if not the best in 4th gen.
Yeah she even has the best lower register for sm's female main vocalists (ranked by ain't no other fan)
i don't particularly stan babymonster but i saw yesterday a video of ahyeon pushing out the high note in sheesh several notes higher than it originally is and GOD did it sound strained 😭 i really hope she's taking good care of her vocal cords behind the scenes
I love Belle and she does actually eat up her high notes about 25% of the time but she should really stop attempting some of those live
Exactly, I love her so much but she needs to stop sometime. It's not necessary to push those high notes all the time when it's not needed. Something you can hear her voice breaking 💀
Chen definitely has the cleanest high notes out there, range an technique wise
Yess. And we can't forget about Eunkwang from BTOB.
@@saradfv Yes him too. I've been there since 20212 both groups debuted, I can say Chen still is little bit above Eunkwang.
Eunkwang, tho with high range, struggles with technique and support in the early times, but he's splendid now due to training ang experience.
Id say baekhyun is slightly better in that regard, but yes jongdae ❤
chen's best low ranges too!! his control, vibrato, and dynamic are amazing. he got the lowest and highest ranges
Kpop companies not only need to start taking technical levels way more into account but also tone. Winter from Aespa can do these high notes (to a certain level) fine, but her tone is so incredibly piercing and nasal that even when she does have fine technique, it still doesn’t sound pleasing. Same with Ahyeon from BaeMon, except she doesn’t even have the okay technique on these notes that Winter does and is literally screaming.
@@DeeDeeDeeeee yeh ahyeon is falt high note no such technique and sound more like screaming while winter was natural high pitch plus in her belting she has very strong vibrato
Winter's belt is getting less piercung.
I think it was YYJ who made her doing highnotes like 'SM' style cause Ningning's best suit isnt 'SM style' highnotes,
Need to explain: winter can sounds fine and some fuller at least in her range like Bb4/B4 she can showcase her clean here. Then Ahyeon not just about technical but she lack the "true" connection to her cord then her development can't go to 5 octave! In this gen only a Few idols can mix or belts above B4s like for example: Lily, Haewon, Ning' some Average like Haram, Geoun, Winter have a moment at least until C#5!
If the vocalist have developed a 5 octave like Taeyeon, Eunji, Wendy ofc those idol can do what most ppl said it's a "High Note" the thing ppl or fans should knowing about Mix register and Belting, head voice. rather than just comment or called thats "High Notes" lol.
I'm glad winter isn't given high notes that often anymore. It's just too ear bleeding and annoying bc of her tone. Always felt ningning or any other member deserved those high notes instead of her. Hearing her do high notes always reminds me of that one quote "just because you can do it does not mean you should do it".
And well the only reason ahyeon keeps getting these high notes is bc of that one viral moment that made her famous. Her tone is just too annoying no wonder my favourite song from baemon is batter up. She just ruins the perfect bridge of sheesh for me and now in forever as well. I wanna know who in that studio listens to her scream and thinks well that was awesome let's add it to the song. Even suhyun from akmu who can actually pull off these crazy high notes which ahyeon does, does not show it off bc it is never required in their songs. YG forcefully puts these high notes in baemon songs so that fans would gag. I'm also glad bp does not do high notes as well (they do but it's really rare)
Doh Kyungsoo is an example. He is best in both but do not strain his vocal chords. Just because he doesnt have high parts in group songs, doesnt mean he cant. But if he does it, like rewrite the stars, mama, love me right says he doesnt strain. 🥰
DOs voice in rewrite the stars is just chef's kiss! I wish they would release a full version
What I hate about casual kpop fans is that they think all Jongho can do is hit high notes but he’s very versatile
yup, for example this video, repeatedly showing that kingdom clip which was YEARS AGO. when jongho has now improved much better by continuous learning from his vocal coach. they didn't even show him doing low register which can be heard from some of their songs and even from his own osts 🤦🤦
@@ichhimaii1956 exactly this creator didn’t do any research at all just using a viral moment repeatedly he did this in other videos too idk if it’s a thing against ATEEZ directly but he seems to only do this when it comes to Jongho
Tbf fans LOVE high notes, they sound impressive to the common folk and that's why even BTS got praised and loved for them.
But then again Jongho has done so much other than these high notes. I don't see any clip or mention of his OSTs, the covers of OSTs, immortals songs etc. I've watched a few of this channel's videos and there is no such mention or even a clip of that.
Boy groups usually have higher range when it comes to songs (hence most of Jongho's high notes in Ateez) because Ateez and other idols have mentioned it themselves and that those kinds of songs garner more attention
@@Armtiny why do yall bring up BTS when they aren’t even a topic of conversation it’s not like they can sing like Jongho anyway
@@yatorayeager5517 who is comparing BTS here?! It's the whole kpop thing as a whole. I just said that fans love high notes... There is no comparison, I don't think there's any need to create drama out of nothing. Ig I'll be more specific and say that the majority of kpop fans love high notes and praise their idols for doing so (it's my observation only).
And u don't need to throw shade at any other idol either.
Bringing examples from ZB1: Taerae and Zhang Hao both are incredibly capable of doing high notes. However their lower registers are easily their true vocal highlight. They harmonize with everyone so easily and smoothly like butter and adds so much vocal richness to any song they sang.
obsessed with their low notes in their starry club covers oof
edit: leaving this here bc taerae's lower register improvement is chefs kiss ua-cam.com/video/OHkONMZZYU8/v-deo.htmlsi=1bwG3LFnZyxQCaCY + id recommend going through this channel for more jebewon vocal content
@@emanueltheodorus1056 I love Taerae’s vocal tone and his is easily my personal favourite among 4th & 5th gen vocalists.
Every time I listen and watch zhang hao perform it makes me happy remembering he is the winner of boys planet like such a deserved winner honestly. Can't think of any better winner than him. Taerae-Zhang Hao undoubtedly the best vocal duo of 5th gen and I don't think anyone would come close to these two
this is always what p*ssed me off the most about kpop fans. specifically because im a huge D.O. stan and he’s unarguably one of thee best vocalists in kpop but he doesn’t get mentioned as much as Chen or Baekhyun simply because he doesn’t really do these crazy 5th octave high notes, as if that made his bandmates the „clearly better“ singers (it doesn’t). very sad because massive talents like him get overlooked because of it
this made me especially mad because he has this huge skill of having a full and powerful sound very high up in his range like up to C5 he sounds incredibly full and sometimes even at ease, while with other male vocalists you would hear a clear lightening of the mix (which isn’t bad at all ofc) but that doesn’t matter because he’s not squeezing out E5s or F5s in every songs climax. let’s not even get into his great agility..
Hard agree.. There’s a reason why he is going viral every time he sings
Oh my god just a taste of Ailee’s goddess vocals was all I needed for ear cleanse 😭❤️
Kyuhyun from Super Junior is the best example of a vocalist who manages his voice very well. He rarely use his voice outside his supported range, yet he is still considered the best vocalist among Kpop idols to this day. No other idols can match his vocal superiority. Although he barely use powerful high notes, but he is the only Kpop male idol who can support up to C5. He is also a well-rounded vocalist, proficient in lower, mid, and upper registers. As well the only male idol to have achieved a four-octave range.
It's true that others can do powerful high notes but did they support it?No. It's like cheating .
So big respect to those vocalists who managed their vocals so well.
He leaves the high notes to Ryeowook (the best in this field with his flexibility between chest voice, head voice and falsetto) and Yesung but for the lower notes (in KRY) he's the best.
There does seem to be a lot of people who conflate high _notes_ with high _quality_ singing-to the point that clips of EXO showing incredible dynamics, control, agility, etc. are written off as "not showing how good they are" and instead the fan recommends a compilation of high notes. Like... what? _Excuse me??_ The number of times I have seen this exact thing is absurd. The strength of a good singer is in those techical things, in their ability to communicate emotion and yeah, maybe in their range. But reducing it down to high notes not only ignores a ton of hard work put in by great singers, it condemns those of us with lower ranges to NEVER being "great singers" bc a high note for us doesn't sound like a high note.
Louder 🗣️🗣️
Seriously,stop adding high notes on itzy's songs. I want to hear their comfortable voices not highnotes that they can barely sing. I'm shocked how they learned nothing from all those 1st&2nd gen singers getting vocal nodules.
right, like they forced chaer do those highnote😭
We love the tiffany young appreciation
if you compare jongho's vocals in kingdom vs. coachella it'll really make you realize just how much more important vocal tone and technique is in singing high notes. because edenary really needs to give this man justice in terms of showcasing how good his vocals actually are (╥﹏╥) . his voice shines best in his covers of "so you" and "dear name" but edenary just cant seem to utilize his vocals right and just gives him high notes after high notes...
I'm scared for his voice really, he may be getting at hitting these notes but doing it so often can't be good for him
They give him high notes because he can handle them, they also give him plenty of lines in a lower range. Maybe you should listen to more of their songs, try lyrics videos to actually see who's singing when?
@@LadyTiferethe can handle high notes but only to a certain extent. there are times that jongho gets noticeably nasally (and at times sounds painful) when singing high notes bcs they are sometimes out of his comfort zone.. tho I won't deny that he is getting better as days go by but singing all these high notes can very much strain his voice and can be impractical considering how high energy ateez' songs can get..
also for reference, can you name some songs where jongho is singing in a lower register? the only song that I can recall rn is the leaders 🤧
@@hgrxste1549 there are many: Horizon, Desire, Win, Wonderland, Promise, Say My Name, With U come to mind just from the ATEEZ discography, but he has also done OST work which shows his lower register
@@hgrxste1549with Ateez? Try his solo Everything.
His OSTs include lower register singing.
His cover with Maddox of Ditto has them singing in all registers and trading off who sings high or low.
He sings mostly for Ateez in his mixed voice.
Watch his Immortal Songs appearances where he uses a variety of vocal techniques-lower, higher. He also rides his breaks (between chest, mixed, head, and falsetto) really well-which is difficult to do without proper technique.
that is why I love haewon
she doesn't sing in really high belt, and she have such great mid belt and good low register and her tone quality omg I really love her voice
She kinda has a deep tone to her voice.
She is soo young and already is such a good singer,dancer and an amazing performer. She also enjoys what she does and it really just makes me happy just watching a passionate person perform. Not to mention her great personality, a cherry on top
@@Oscillations-eq8np yeah I really love her
@@xryvxctyrsyndry not deep, but it's full and reach tone and her tone is very rare in kpop I never heard some one in kpop have that tone (maybe pharita is just little similar)
Havewon is literally the one who always cracks her voice right even without doing high notes 😂
Just because the song has high notes, doesn't meant it's actually good or you have to do it often. Speaking of high notes, for me, it was never the high note that is the problem though. But, lower notes are way more difficult to reach.
I feel like high notes are to singing what dunks are to basketball. It seems more impressive than it is because many people watching CAN'T do it.
It's easy for people to convince themselves that they COULD hit layups or 3 pointers if they just PRACTICED. It's the same with singing in a lower range. People think they could do it as well as the pros if they practiced.
But in BOTH cases, people don't see all the work that goes on in the background to make those "easy" things so consistent and look effortless.
I may be biased, b/c I like singers who make use of their lower ranges or have that type of voice. Singers like Lee Hi, Ha Dong Qn (I'm not gonna fight Romanization on those stage names) or Big Mama as a whole. It's also one of the things I like most about STAYC: they have a range of distinct voices in their vocals.
that's a great analogy
Nice tone, even vibrato, pitch accuracy, harmonising, riffs and runs >>> high notes
It's also a self-perpetuating issue because producers know fans want to hear these high notes, and producers aren't always performers themselves, who know what makes good vocalists. So producers encourage their idols to continue with the high notes and fans keep eating it up online and commercially, which gives the producers more incentive to continue. Pdogg, I'm looking at you.
cough cough jyp. he sounds horrendous with his high note obssession, some of his performances makes everyone's ears bleed and he keeps pushing into his artists. still remember yeji literally going hoarse in the studio from trying to bump the notes up and he was like "no that aint enough GO HIGHER"
They ain't singing they are screeching on top of their vocal cords. YG needs to stop giving ahyeon so much high notes they DONT sound good.
and she is always shake no matter what register it is 😭😭😭😭
and when she feel uncomfortable and she well lose the control over her high note she make it higher 💀
they do?
@@skydendy97 no actually they don't
@@BP-tm6ye u shud go to a doctor i guess
@@skydendy97 gurl I love ahyeon but her high belt is really bad and nothing impressive just screaming and straining
Look… I’m a diehard atiny, they’re literally my ults. But I can never EVER watch their original performance of Wonderland on Kingdom. I hear the strain in jongho’s voice and, knowing the stress and hell they’ve been through, I can only imagine how much they were ki||ing themselves everyday performing at that intensity. And jongho has a wonderful voice, everyone knows that, but he’s more than just a high note machine gun. His lower register is so warm, and so beautifully rounded and sweet. It’s really a shame what EDENARY is doing to his voice
Except his Wonderland performances recently show no strain. And the Kingdom version had many reasons why his voice sounded strained (fatigue being a main one since they had been without rest at that point for at least 36 hours).
@@kimdaniel2601 its a B5 of course he strains it after B4 when going up a whole octave to B5, no male can even support above C5 let alone B5 is like impossible lol
@@triplej8666saying ‘no male’ is incorrect, ‘most males’ would be accurate
As an Atiny, I very much do agree with a (meanwhile widespread) criticism that Jongho has turned into a highnote jukebox. Which is certainly a shame given that he is a very skilled singer when he sings in his more comforted range. You can see as much in his covers, solo performances, and OSTs. However, what I find unfair about how you represented Jongho in this video is that all of his clips were from 2021 or even older when Ateez were still rookies. He has massively improved since then and he is still improving every day as he takes vocal lessons diligently. If you for instance compare their recent performances of Kingderland (Wonderland Kingdom Version) from Coachella fex you will hear a noticeable difference. I'm not trying to be overly defensive, your criticism of how Jongho is treated by the producers is valid and trust me, Atiny KNOW, but next time please put in some effort to find more recent clips❤
Since y'all wanna talk about Jongho's vocal technique and downplaying it for his strained high notes ONLY, let me yap about singing here instead, and also showcased what i observed his strengths and what he lacks among these areas based on listening to him for whole 5 years.
In singing, there are different key areas but let me just include 3 and focus on 1 (so i will not yap any longer 😭). We have Technique, Musicality and Performance Skills. We're focusing on technique here.
Vocal Technique consists of:
1. breath control - proper breath support to sustain notes, dynamic control and resonant sound. (Jongho is known to have at least 3 pairs of lungs among the fandom for how impeccably strong his breath support is, hence allowing him to do most of the high notes in their discography that y'all are criticizing a lot. Take note that breath control is also considered the foundation in singing so it really affects every areas. It is a MUST for singers to have a proper breath support.)
2. vocal placement - knowing how to direct resonance to various areas of vocal tract (chest, head, mask). (Jongho learned the arts of proper vocal placement hence why he has such wide range. Also when you think of him, you also think of resonance. He knew how to put resonance whenever it's needed. The chest voice is the lower register of the voice, while the head is the higher one.)
3. vocal registers - mastering of the chest voice, head voice, falsetto and mixed voice, allowing wider range and greater flexiblity in singing. (When you mastered the vocal placements, mastering the registers is a light work. Thus, Jongho excels in here. Though sometimes, he still do made mistakes. Ofc no one is perfect, singers will have a bad day no matter what.)
4. transitioning between registers - (common sense). (This is something that most vocalists in the new generation do not have, or have not yet mastered. Few of the exceptions are Ningning, Lily and Jongho but let's focus on Jongho (since this is about him, love the girlies tho.) I think people also call this the "flip". This is when you go from a register to a different one, flawlessly and smoothly like a baby's butt. Jongho has been literally doing this since debut, just listen to their songs, I suggest Empty Box, which is one of their recent song. Must be nice i guess.)
5. vibrato - slight fluctuations in pitch (This is literally Jongho core 😭. He's famous for this, not only his high notes. When you have a very strong stamina and breath support like him, doing this is easy-peasy. What I like about his vibrato tho is that it never falters, his is very strong, very resonant, full and complete. It is always so satisfying to hear. I have never heard a failed vibrato from him ever (but maybe some of you did and i happen to miss that so do let me know.) But yeah, vibrato is like Jongho's brand as a vocalist lol)
6. runs and riffs - melodic patterns that involves quickly moving between different notes. (I don't think there are much of him doing riffs and complicated long runs but when he do he does it right! Go and listen to his cover of Brian McKnight's Another You in Lee Mujin service. In my honest opinion, i know he could do better so i really hope he showcased more of this in their future songs or covers.
7. articulation and diction - clear and precise pronunciation and delivery of the lyrics. (This is probably Jongho's greatest weakness for me, esp when covers English songs or any other songs in another language beside Korean, but it mostly applies to most idols tho.)
So yeah, this is my few cents about Jongho's singing skills. If you guys made it up to here, congrats and thank you i guess lol. Now let me give you some recommendations of Jongho's more recent singing videos and not one from Stone age lmao
Lee Mujin Service
Immortal Songs - So You (Solo)
Ateez's Killing Voice
Covers
IU's Dear Name (with San)
New Jeans' Ditto (with Maddox)
Park Hyoshin's Wildflower (Solo)
You can do search for more if you want. Coachella, Mawazine, it's all up to you. Heck you can even check the fancams of their concerts starting from 2022. Ciao!
I actually think Jongho is almost flawless when riding between and switching registers. His Immortal Songs appearances (think this one was the So You cover) demonstrates this so beautifully. That cover should be a go to any time there is a discussion about Jongho’s vocals.
I think Celebrate is a good example of his runs and riffs-and when they performed this in their last concert series he would often change it up. He also changes up the runs in Fireworks and several others. I feel like he does more runs than riffs.
I think the Ditto cover is a great feature of what he can do with his voice and not a single belt to be found.
His karaoke sessions are the proof that he can do vocally what we hear without the studio magic.
thank you for both of your guys’ comments
im glad that you two who know what your talking about are not only pointing put what he needs to improve on but also praising his singing unlike this channel who loves to make jongho out to be a “bad” singer
@@kimdaniel2601 yeah his transitions between registers are almost flawless, he's probably the best in this out of all the vocalist in 4th Gen. As for runs and riffs, yeah i mentioned that he doesn't showcased that much of him doing such, he does runs in some of their songs but complicated long runs, i think the closest that he did was his Brian McKnight cover.
Overall, he's still a great singer, who works hard to improved and works harder to sing live and deliver the fruit of his hardwork. That's all that matters.
My issue is that with Jongho you are using old footage. Why not use some of his recent karaoke sessions or their Coachella performances. Or some of his OSTs, Immortal Songs appearances (he’s been twice as a soloist and Ateez 6 times)?
Also Jongho still takes vocal lessons and takes steps to protect his voice.
I enjoy Jongho’s voice and his OSTs Gravity and A Day are both fantastic.
Talking about the high notes obsession there's a certain emotional climax it presents mostly when good build up accompanies it something that kpop often lacks.... the other parts are important like using falsetto to end a song or low notes for the build up but high notes are the part we tend to remember..for example fur elise live performance has exquisite vocal moments but what would you say is the highlight
One thing I love about exo is the fact that they actually explore lower register. They are the few groups I see play around with lower notes like how they do with higher notes. Like half of them have good technique in lower register and they make use of that.
Tell me you haven't heard Jongho without telling you haven't heard him, Jongho's literally one of the best vocalists in kpop. He's not called 4th gen vocalist bc he can hit high notes, but bcoz of his range & techniques. He's trained by same vocal coach as Baekhyun Exo & Haechan NCT and was chosen has one of his top 3 students by that teacher. And now, he's being trained by same vocal coach's daughter who trained Michael Jackson. Not only this, she's so impressed by him that she requested if she can come to Korea to teach him more. And here are self-proclaimed vocal experts giving their opinions lol, keep going.
i totally agree with you but can tou please tell me where you got the info of jongho being taught by the vocal coach who taught michael jackson?
@@gelesic6757 He actually told it himself that he's taking lessons from Kathleen Riggs (the daughter of vocal coach who trained Michael Jackson & Steve wonders, she's trained singers like Madison Beer, Weekend, Dua lipa) on toktoq live during Coachella time.
@@YoursTAngel thank you
thats so cool tho im so proud of jongho for taking care of his vocals
People are obsessed with high notes, with sales, with music show wins, number of YT and/or insta subs. We manage our appreciation like our bank account. The more the better. And we are losing the value of our artistic appreciation, of our emotions, to numbers. Scorched by the scores. Underrated. Overrated. But "rated" in each case. "Think" with your heart, and stop thinking that artists are like stock options, or keys are like the horizontal bar in pole vaulting.
I wish I could express more, sorry for my poor English 😅
Fans are also obsessed with charting on every possible chart, and the number of views and likes.
I wonder how many actually enjoy the music anymore...
💯
Every once in a while I read an intelligent comment from a kpop fan and it reminds me that there is still faith in the community.
Absolutely agree. You will notice a change in yourself as a fan as soon as you join stan twitter. They care sooooo much about charting, having a "clean","good" reputation, be good looking, having good streams and sales like what happened about caring only about the music and maybe some variety content. You are disqualified as a person if you accidentally make a mistake. Going viral, having a lot of wins matters soo much to them it makes me laugh honestly. I Joined twitter for like a month and immediately left. People there are honestly psychotic and i worry about the teenagers who join it and ruin themselves to "fit" these psychos
Blinks and armys and onces 😶 I'm all of these btw
Not sure why people focus so much on Jongho's high notes. I'm starting to think they've become desensitized or they ceased to be in awe, but I am not. He clearly is a skilled singer, if not he wouldn't be invited to all these shows to sing with veterans. He also has demonstrated a variety of ranges, and his vibrato is what impresses me the most he sings like a tenor or classical type in my humble opinion. This video is unnecessarily targeting him, since it makes it seem like he's not a overall skilled singer and just a belter. Yes he belts but he also SINGS and beautifully! Only a few kpop acts of his age range can compete with him.
No, it just shows that even skilled singers can struggle out of their comfort zones. He also showcased Nayeon and Belle while he praised them in his previous videos. So one clip wont make a vocalist look bad, dont worry
@@Nhaila no the video just highlights the obvious fact that he’s made to sing way out of his comfortable range. He is skilled yes but that’s not the point of the video.
My issue is he used Jongho as a focus point and didn't really say much about him unlike others and from his past videos he doesn't seem to favour Jongho much. In Kingdom there was a whole episode centered on vocalists where Jongho showcased great signing qualities even high notes, no mention of that but just that one dramatized scene. Yes all singers can have off moments but that's not what I understood from this video. No I do not believe Jongho is signing out of his comfort zone, he is working with elite specialists and if they thought he couldn't hit those notes they would not have him do them.
@@Nhaila Yeah, he didnt mention him but that doesnt mean he thinks he is bad
Also notice that the clips are old as heck. He has changed so much but you wouldn't know it from here.
Honestly, as a vocalist I completely agree with all of this, I might not be good but I will always prefer sing a song in my range and nailed it with good technicalities rather than go for something that too far too hard for me to keep my stability,however the song to be chose for sang is also MAJOR factor to singer (including singer’s tone (versatalities is also needed in different variety type of song to provide dynamic) ,range,vocal agility) it’s really sad to see some of the good singer abusing their voice to sound higher,but actually in fact this is damaging to their vocal chord badly.
9:45 Why didn’t yall tell me he can sing like that ?????? I’m obsessed omg
Keeho is criminally underrated :(
@@zannatul312truee alot of people only recognize him for his humor and not his talent 😔
His lower register go crazy!!!!
I love Taeyeon's high notes. It doesn't hurt my ears and actually sound like she's singing instead of screaming.
i get that this channel is in favour of female vocalists and singers and thats fine because it is your channel but if you are going to use male idols in your videos why not do some proper research? this channel always talks pessimistic of jongho in terms of vocals and always uses the same old clips and doesn't have the care to check out more of jongho's recent singing
you need to check out many events where jongho displayed his beautiful vocals, especially in coachella where he with his members done a ~40min performance that happened in the desert where its hot, sweaty, windy yet they still managed to be one of the best if not the best performers there.
it disheartens me how you, a vocal critic, isn't bothered to check out jongho's singing journey from debut till now yet you still talk poorly of him. its not that you don't have the time, because how else are you doing all these other videos despite the exams?
please dont see this as hate as i am just expressing my disappointment
I've been saying the same thing like why are they always showing the same clips from 2018-2021??? And the supposed "better" clips that they included at the end wasn't even considered as one of his best moment 💀
Coachella, Mawazine, Dingo killing Voice, Immortal Songs and a plethora of his covers, solo, duet or as a group are literally right here in the internet, it will only take few clicks for them to find it 😭
tbh i feel like they just want to nitpick his vocals and give a platform for the "hate disguised as criticisms" from kpop stans.
been saying this, his clips are so much older while the other idols clips were all pretty recent 😒
Nah, the stabler the better. The high notes is just the cherry on the top of the cake called stable vocals...
yes like they are just screaming 💀💀💀
This is why sometimes i kinda feel guilty enjoying Siyeon's high notes. Like i know they are kinda unhealthy but they still sounded beautiful especially every time she adds vibrato. Her singing has a lot of personality and i cant really see her outside the rock-dominated style of singing yet (although she can do other concepts too like some of hwr covers and solos).
Currently she's in a hiatus huhuhu right before their comeback. I hope she takes her time to heal and recover.
fellow Somnie✨
also, agreed. I really love Siyeon's voice and I hope she has a great recovery for this comeback period
Jongho is famous for continually developing his skill, he has vocal lessons at least weekly and takes extra ones with local instructors when Ateez are abroad. He went back to LA the next day after Coachella to take lessons from Kate Riggs, one of the most famous vocal technique and therapy coaches in the world. She was so satisfied working with him she said she'd like to come to Korea to train him further.
He might be most famous for his high notes bc they're the most noticeable in their title tracks but it's by no means all he can do and showing him multiple times as a ~negative example contrasted to all those other vocalists with a different range is a bit weird.
There's a reason he keeps getting invited to Immortal Songs solo and being praised by the veterans of the music industry rather than just kpop fans.
Hi, I noticed that as well with the editing in this video. It was really not necessary. Often some old out of context clips plus that one from Kingdom are used in a pejorative way whilst there being all these great clips that could have been used. Also he has range, he sings highs and lows, he's very trained and has been praised up and down by professionals. I'm pretty sure he is sleeping very comfortably at night, thanks!
You 2 get that nobody questions Jongho's vocals, but the excessive & repetitive extremely high note he does EACH TIME per title track right??
His ballads and covers back both him as a vocalist as his talent up, but when him/the production teams end up giving Jongho the EXACT SAME ROLE and purpose in every comeback (these vocals and the eternal highnote) it might get tiring and become the focus point of his vocals - precisely due to ATEEZ making it the focus point for Jongho even as a member -.
And not using a single example more recent than Kingdom. Like talking about a vocalist completely as a negative but not using any of their recent work, his OSTs, his Karaoke sessions, or his Immortal Songs appearances is lazy research.
@@chromaticasforecast4419excessive and repetitive? really. I find they use it strategically, when it calls for it, you do know they have a large repertoire of songs with variety of styles. He is known for his high notes, that's a stylistic choice, and what is wrong with that since he can do it well and he is the main vocalist. Ateez do what they want with their music, similarly to every other musicians, it's their creation and it doesn't need to be for everyone but let me tell you when you hear his voice live there is nothing more enjoyable to the ears.
@@Nhaila "really" yes. excessive when the highnote seems to serve as more of a shock factor required for the now formulaic approach to the "ATEEZ title track" rather than a melodic resource, and repetitive when that becomes basically the main role of Jongho as a member when the structure of their biggest songs only use Jongho for this (at least their title tracks, which serve as the showcase of the group for the general public).
We can talk about his solos or covers, but that doesn't go beyond the fandom. And outside of atiny, Jongho is reduced to the impressive highnote vocalist of the group but that's it. This is reductive and a shame for a talented singer imo
And it is strategical, but precisely that approach to an already overused formula becomes reductive for Jongho's abilities and purpose as an ATEEZ member. Seonghwa shocked as a rapper in Bouncy despite him being a vocalist, Hongjoon sings and does hignotes even when he's a rapper and San gets diversity in his vocal approach for example; why can't Jongho do smth else? He may not want to for whatever reason and that's ok it is his free choice, just as I'm free to say what I saud
A video about high notes in K-pop without including BTOB’s EUNKWANG is criminal! But thank you for appreciating one of the best k-pop vocalists APINK’s Eunji!
Can’t take K-pop stans seriously when it comes to vocal analysis.
There is a misconception that the only reason why Jongho is called the best 4th gen vocalist is because of high notes.
Critically acclaimed vocalists and industry veterans know he is talented because his range impressive, he is really stable, his breath control and technique isn’t lacking.
Making smear videos of him won’t make your faves better than him this goes for the people in the comment section too.
Also vocal tone is subjective, it has nothing to do with skill so calling someone a bad vocalist because you don’t like their tone is stupid.
K-pop fans should take a mandatory class on what makes good vocals before going any further into K-pop at this point.
That first minute ooof, my God
The Seulgi clip gave me chills ✨
@@wonderingchuu seulgi's 28 reasons ep really showcased her amazing vocals, I would literally beg on my knees outside the sm building for a comeback 🤕
Have you seen NCT Doyoung's cover to this song?
High notes, many times, can be a marketing tactic. Belle said she knew that they needed to stand out IMMEDIATELY being from a small company and all, so she decided to include whistle notes in the debut, something unsual in kpop that she could do.
Overall I think it was a great choice, because it DID attract attention, and people checked them out enough to actually see her biggest strenght as a vocalist now
It'd be nice if you could show the good and the bad clips of the same artist. Not just throw shade to some and than show the better clips of some. All the idols you showed in the first part of your video have great moments as well. 😅
Omg I thought i was weird for not liking high notes. It just sounds like screaming to me.
I really like YG not pushing Rora to do crazy high notes and let her showcase her beautiful lower range but I also hate how I dont hear Ahyeon going below a certain note
But I also would like to hear Rora's mix range time to time.
It is so funny how people say that Ahyeon better vocal than Rora, lmao
And here it is. When Rora doesn't sing high notes then credit YG for doing the right thing but the criticism on Ahyeon is when she does it, it's 100% her fault.
@@onlydbrasko I am sorry if I worded it wrong but I meant Ahyeon always pushed to sing high. Its like the producers has chosen her to be scheecher
@@denizyazgan5127 No worries. You're the only person on social media who acknowledges that YG has a lot of influence on how their idols sing.
Now let us show actual clips of Jongho showcasing his best vocals, and not only those flawed old clips of him from 2018-2021. You can even see how bad the resolution are for majority of the videos here, they are literally antique af.
It's literally 2024 rn, can't we move tf on 😭
I don’t think the video is meant to be malicious-it’s to showcase what they can improve on and be better. Sorry to break it to you but he still strains alot of times and it’s unhealthy. He’s a little better now but there should always be a room for improvement like healthier techniques. Even some of the world’s best singers start out strainy, improved a lot and still continue to improve. So it’s about time you grow up and stop meatriding and act like your oppa is so perfect
@@billliealim no matter the intention the research is done extremely poorly, he already improved a lot and sang the same high notes with much better technique, so what's the point of using the same clips (multiple time by the way) from years ago and some even from predebute when there is A LOT OF content that showcase the real situation at the moment? And it's easy to find, much easier than some random predebute clip. Not to mention that Jongho isn't just his high notes, and the people who praise his vocals (real professionals) know that very well, only kpop stans (that are not his fans, because his fans know better for the most part) focus on his high notes only (which is exactly the same thing creator does every time he mentions him). Like, yes, he isn't always perfect, and ATEEZ rarely have any time to rest, so obviously there will be mistakes and imperfections and that's okay, as you said even the best vocalists have bad moments, but I don't see how using the same outdated and not relevant clips helps the conversation about vocals when the situation is completely different now? Why talk about things that should be improved and then purposely ignore the improvement?
And that's not the first time with this creator, I get this videos in my recommendations along with other videos about vocals and this creator just seems to really not be interested in ATEEZ at all and it's okay but then just don't talk about them? Why do you feel the need to talk about them when you don't want to do a proper research or even just watch more than one performance that is up to date and not from 3+ years ago? There is so much content that show their voices without any postproduction editing and he just always decides to use the weirdest examples that doesn't show anything at all? The same goes for San when he mentioned him. And San isn't even the vocalist I prefer in ATEEZ but the choises of clips? That's the best your research can be done? Literally the only song from their coachella performance he used was wonderland (a couple of moments) and this song isn't even that vocally interesting.
Not interested in a group/don't like them = no need to talk about them and pretend to care and seriously analise them, just ignore them, it's that simple. These guys get enough hate on every day basis, they could do without people creating safe space for spreading even more misinformation and hate about them
@@billliealimlmfao all i said was to include a more recent clips instead of the old ones and here i am getting called meat riding. Where did i even say that he's perfect, my point flew right past your airhead, tone down that misogyny a bit.
@@billliealimif it’s to showcase what can be made better than all the more reason to use recent clips. There is a plethora of clips-Immortal Songs, OSTs, his karaoke sessions, Lee Mujin, Killing Voice, etc.
@@billliealimNo one is saying he's perfect, but he's literally one of the best vocalists in that industry who can actually pull off high notes. There's a reason why only he's invited to immortal songs high note episode where he competed with vocal legends (and that included actual k-vocalists not just kpop vocalists) double his age & was highly praised, that too when he had an allergy that day & wasn't in his best condition.
It's not an "Ain't No Other Fan" video until Ailee shows up and I'm HERE for it.
It's a very selfish reasoning, but I would love a lower range in songs so that those of us who can't hit those sky-high notes can sing along with their music better 😆
One of the more underrated vocalists in K-Pop is Hui of Pentagon.
He doesn't sing particularly high but he's very soulful
I’m surprised Taehyun of TXT didn’t make it into the video, he’s struggled in the past making those high notes come out sounding healthy and full. I think he has improved a bit but I worry about him training and using is voice safely.
He would not want to cheese off that fandom by bringing negativity to Taehyun just for clicks. No, he has Jongho for that...massive click returns from the negativity without the massive fandom push back. WIN WIN
@@kaylabunnie5283 lol fair, though Jongho is much more known for his prowess with high notes so I guess you can take it as a compliment. As an Atiny I don't mind it because I also care about Jongho maintaining good vocal health.
I feel like this also affected Yuju during her time in Gfriend. She sounded great in almost every register but her high notes were what got her and Gfriend the most attention back then.
this video only uses old videos of jongho in his rookie days. he still gets vocal lessons and has improved so so much and i hate this narrative that he just sounds like he’s screaming because it’s just false.
One if the biggest issues I have with pushing high notes is Yujin from Ive. They keep giving her super high notes, higher than Liz's, and she sounds so strained.
I love I AM to death, but ever since Liz and Yujin have gotten their “High Note Certified” badges from casual listeners, it has led to some concerning high notes. I loved Heya, but I always end up tuning out Yujin’s high notes at the end.
When you look at thise good examples, its not just one boring high note. There is texture and tone. Its nto juat squeezing out a long note at the high end of your range, which producers seem to have forgotten.
Being back altos! Make diversified vocal performances cool again! Me personally, id like to see more runs or riffing again, reminiscent to the gospel/rnb inspired styles that were all the rage in 2/3rd(?) gen.
Am i the only one who loves lower registers from idols when they sing more than high notes?
Part of what is concerning here, too, is how many younger trainees have been debuting of late. While all K-pop idols typically start young, the fact of the matter is that your vocal cords are still developing in your teens and early 20s. Women's voices do not fully mature until about the age of 30. So, the younger they are when they start consistently straining for those high notes, the more likely it is to not only damage but potentially alter their vocal health and quality overall as they age.
The key here, no matter the age of the idol, is to provide them with the right training. Vocal foundation = vocal (and maybe even career) longevity. I hope these idols can somehow receive the musical and physical education/training they both need and deserve.
Wheein's voice is underrated, her voice is beautiful and sweet, she is one of the best kpop voices.
Why is it that when someone wants to roast or disparage Jongho they go to these same set of clips from his rookie years and Kingdom (April 2021) where it is well documented that he was suffering from exhaustion because of his super packed schedule? So many people here proclaiming to be Ateez fans (liars) and so "concerned" that the high notes hide that Jongho is really an overrated, under developed vocalist with bad vocal technique who is being taken advantage of by bad producers. Last year, this content creator placed Jongho at #6 when ranking active BG main vocalist (Kihyun, DK, Doyoung, Taeil, and Seungkwan were the top 5) yet, even then, you got the feeling that he gave the rank grudgingly.
Criticism of Jongho's vocals is based more on subjective taste than on objective measures. People, including this content creator, need to admit that Jongho is a great vocalist; you just don't like his "tone" and hate that such a voice has brought him and Ateez attention and success as kpop artists. He talked about this on Lee Mujin's show; how people were able to acknowledge his vocal ability but greatly disliked his voice as it was not a "pop" voice. People discouraged him from pursing becoming an idol because they said his voice was unpleasant and unappealing and not suited for kpop. Jongho is a rockstar being judged inadequate by a bunch of biased kpoppies.
Luckily, for "real" Atiny, Jongho found a place with a group/producers that creates a lot of music that is suited to his type of voice. He has said that he wants to be vocally challenged, to push and explore is boundaries and Ateez songs do that for him. He and the other Ateez members still take vocal lessons from legitimate coaches as a regular part of their ongoing training to develop and improve their sound. Jongho and Ateez have improved so much since Kingdom and continue too but no one wants to really acknowledge nor accept it.
Yes. I hate the fact that we keep seeing reactors (including this one) who use clips from years ago and don’t even bother to listen to solo work, Immortal Songs, or even his recent karaoke sessions. Nope we get trainee Jongho and Kingdom (there are even a ton of more recent Wonderland Symphony no 9 performances with good technique).
I would say that this specific video is not criticizing Jongho as a vocalist, but the praise his high note in one clip and in Kingdom got, which is acknowledged as affected by his exhaustion during the show. People as a whole do generalize his voice too much based on trainee/debut clips, I agree with you on that.
@@faiththomas6137 well if we ever get that video where this reactor has any praise for him I might agree with you but this reactor mostly just posts negative comments about Jongho when he uses Jongho. Even the bg ranking said almost nothing positive about Jongho (and that one relied on old trainee day clips and used nothing within the last few years for evaluation).
But I get that this reactor doesn’t like BGs and probably isn’t going to put real effort and time into the evaluation. I don’t think he used any clips here that weren’t used in the bg ranking.
Please do a western music episode...been waiting 😢
As Filipino who loves belting, there's a technique in reaching it and there should not be a strain heard. If there is IT IS NOT GOOD SINGING. You belt on a song for intense emotion or putting emphasis or putting climax for the song . I don't know why they are belting when the song does not require for it. I appreciate the tone and texture of a voice because it is more interesting and uniquely the artist voice. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN IDOL AND AN ARTIST. I will not label Bruno Mars an idol but AN ARTIST. The only kpop that I stan most through the years for me is 2NE1. Check their song "it hurts" the song connects with the audience' emotion which is lost on this generation.
I've always been able to tell when they're straining vocals, i always felt bad when idols were being made to sing out of their range especially because they never really look confident (why would you be confident) when performing it
Aaahh .. today's video is chef's kiss! I enjoyed it so much, all the points you made I totally agreed with.
D.O's voice is like a warm blanket, a precious gem wrapped in velvet 💋 (I find this quality in Lee Mujin's voice as well)
Kiss of Life are just SO GOOD 🔥 Protect these gals at all costs.
High notes are only good if you can pull it off without being visibly *strained* because it ends up not giving the wow moment you were hoping for. Not to mention detrimental to your vocal chords.
AND FINALLY, CONGRATULATIONS ON PASSING *ALL* OF YOUR EXAMS DOCTOR! 👏👏🎊🎊
Thank you!!!🥰🤓
As a person who has always loved the warmer and deeper tones, I completely agree. My favorite singers (even outside of kpop) are always the ones that sing in a lower register. And also, it's so easy to identify who has a good technique and who doesn't. There's a lot that come into singing and it's unfortunate that the majority of people only pay attention to high notes.
I think high notes when used properly could elevate the emotions of a song a lot. Sadly, most Kpop producers just use them to make idols sing really high to impress audiences without much meaning behind it.
An example of high notes accompanying emotions are the one down here, a rare case in Kpop and one of my fav:
ua-cam.com/video/Z83Oz5vFQns/v-deo.htmlsi=zSkbfFihXZ9ZZRCh
agreed! I think Anymore by Wheein highlights this point really well: ua-cam.com/video/FL2HRVtVH6Y/v-deo.htmlsi=-oT75TLPjZVZomeZ
I don’t like how you did NOT put a single clip showcasing Jongho’s exceptional technique. why are we acting like he doesn’t have the same vocal coach as baekhyun and haechan that I don’t see being shaded here. that same vocal coach stated that he has one of the best techniques among the people she follows so… i feel like this video just wanted to defame/put jongho in a bad light and I did not like it at all. you just put 2 clips of his high notes and didn’t even bother searching for clips where he uses his lower register, this says enough to be honest.
In the beginning of their careers almost everyone sounds strained 😂 even exo. Nowadays they can do it in a healthy way
The quality of their high note are 😵💫🥱
I blame labels and fans alike for this, labels push idols (esp main/lead vocalists) to hit highnotes knowing they're straining their voices just so they would be known as "good vocalists", this not only damage their voices but also make them overshadow other great vocalists who don't focus on highnotes as much.
Sohyang really need to teach them
I think if people have never trained to sing - which is the majority - it is hard for them to differentiate good vocal technique from a bad one. and high notes is kind of an easy way to say if someone is obviously bad.
To the contrary, i thought that the high note era kinda disappeared, we even have many 4th groups without a main vocal now
Well, when you showed the high notes I had to volume down immediately, cuz my ears couldn't handle it. While playing "Forgotten greatness" part I felt goosebumps! I agree with every word you said. E.g I love Jimin's high voice, but when he goes too high you can see him struggle and it just doesn't sound good. Vocalist shouldn't force themselves to do things like that unless they mastered technique, that allows it.
i’m glad aespa released armageddon. they do not need high notes to produce a good song. they slay even without them 🔥
I really dislike this thing, people always think the highest the note, the best the singer is 💀
My opinion before watching the video: lots of high notes are UNNECESSARY and often ANNOYING and too forced to prove prove prove your abilities. Doing high notes is ofc impressive, but delivering it well, when needed in a song, in a subtle and natural manner is the best. I'd rather listen to a more groovy, rnb, soul, low registered group with a good song without high notes rather than a group screaming every second in a bad song with annoying high notes.
IKR it’s so annoying the obsession with high note as if that determines their capability and as a person who likes music rather than typical Kpop highnotes or raps I like Newjeans and people are like they don’t have vocals… but bro that’s how their music is we can check out covers to see their vocals
I'm kinda worried with Belle's vocal honestly, KIOF almost sings live everytime so I'm afraid that it will damage her vocal in the long run 😢 Glad that in Sticky she did not have that crazy ahh high notes
im so worried about some of these singers vocal cords! like belle does so many high notes in pretty much every kiof song, it's concerning
Belle isn't Ailee nor Celine Dion who sings the ENTIRE song. Nor does every KIOF song requires her to do so. Learn to reason with logic if you want to be taken seriously AKA respect inteady spewing nnon-sense in the sake of "worrying"
This video is so necessary, you are completely right about this obsession. I have mentioned this video in my last post (I hope you don't mind) to spread this knowlege about proper singing. Congratulations.
I feel like the high note obsession warped a lot of people's perceptions of what Solar's solo music should sound like. When I first heard Spit It Out I was kinda let down but I didn't yet understand that Mamamoo's Solar and Solar the soloist were not the same person. Once that dawned on me I finally saw that Solar sees her solo work as a way to play with and experiment with her voice. Trying all sorts of genres and arrangements. Yes, she can do some awesome high notes but I love her voice when it's a low purr. These days she tends to leave her high notes for Solarsido covers and her Solar Emotion project(covers of ballads) and ngl I started loving her even more. Once you add in her work in Mamamoo+ and as a musical actress you get a picture of an amazing singer who sounds different in each project but always sounds like herself at the same time.
PS - Siyeon is more responsible on tour than on music shows or in the recording booth. Probably because she's far from trainers and her GP. The last few albums the producers have been giving more high notes to SuA, Yoohyeon, and even JiU in order to balance things out. Just not the final one. 😂I really thought SuA had the final high note in Bon Voyage until Siyeon quashed that idea a second later. I might be the only Somnie alive who wants Siyeon to sing more soft songs like Entrancing or the Oort Cloud cover. Siyeon's low tones are so warm and cozy!