Funny that the average UA-cam commentator knows more and articulates better than Bloomberg reporters who devote their entire lives to this alone... (or at least more info than they want the mainstream).
when you hear someone talk about Tesla as though they are really a car company... think back to when Amazon was just an online book store. yep... the future will be interesting and Bloomberg talking heads are so far off the mark it is laughable.
I dont see hydrogen catching up to EV. The infrastructure for it is not there. You guys didn’t mention Lucid. Lucid is going to be the next Tesla in the US, not nio. Nio battery swapping technology will not work in the US, only in China. On top of this, lucid has a factory (more coming) and build everything in house just like Tesla. They dont outsource their cars like Nio does.
You all probably dont care but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account?? I somehow lost my login password. I would appreciate any help you can give me!
@Alvin Khari Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Living off grid out here in the middle of nowhere in the Amazon Rainforest, I can't wait for 5G, Starlink, better batteries, solar systems and all that - as this'll make my work out here a lot easier 🙏💪✌️👍😎♥️🌴 greetings from the Amazon Jungle
H2 will never have the infrastructure to support any vehicles. Every EV owner can charge up every pm in their garage but no one has a H2 station at home. I hate going to the gas station. Would love it to know that I could charge up my car every night in the comfort of my home.
Right; they have $6 gasoline yet they sold oil themselves. There isn't anything Ahead with EVs as presently made ; they are battery pigs. Say you have 10,000 lithium ion batteries; you can make 2 Tesla's or 20 Hybrids, booth run all electric for commutes; but since you wasted your batteries on pig EVs you must now make 18 Ice vehicles - smart right Big leaders.
"charging can take an hour at the best of times" actually 0 hours at the best of times. as most of the time you can charge at home or your destination as we have pumps(wall sockets) everywhere. Sick of this misinformation.
And besides that, charging at good chargers will take between 30 and 45 minutes with various newer models. Hyundai's upcoming ionic 5 does 5-80% in 18 minutes at a 350kw charger
@@marcels9658 spot on, this wording of the media creates a fear electric won't work for your needs. When in fact it will save you time over all, how often do most people even drive over 200miles(320km) especailly without stoping to eat or even pee. This is straight up hidden messaging to sow doubt.
Charging takes time whether you are busy doing other things or waiting by the car. Accept this. Nothing like zero minutes. Picture this: you get home with hardly any charge left them there is an emergency. Where is your zero minutes?
Ev's are not gonna catch on here in the USA. A lot of people don't have garages and they're not gonna be running a cord out in the yard during the cold and rain.Unless you have 240 it's takes a while to charge at home. In the next year or two we are gonna see ICE powered hybrids with zero emisions and that will end EV's just like the automatic starters and mufflers did in the early 1900's. The people that are thinking that Ev's are the future are gonna be stunned when it doesn't happen.
@@samesame2931 I have had an ev for going on 3 years(one car family). I have never run into this situation you mentioned. Once I arrived home with 5% which is still enough to get to my local hospital. Regardless, in 1 hour I will add another 40-50km(25-30miles) of range on my home chager. On average I arrive home with 50-90% left. How often do you drive over even 100miles(160km) in a day! Maybe once a month for your average home.
Does NIO have a full self driving solution in hand, or at least close to operational? The cost of an EV will be far, far less important than the ability to run a transportation as a service company. The cost of driving a battery swapping car is higher than a car that charges during low demand periods. Almost all robotaxi work could be done with only a 100 mile range battery pack. High usage taxis in NYC and LA average 70,000 miles per year, less than 200 miles per day. There are at least three off-peak periods per 24 hour day when robotaxis could rotate in for a quick charge. The could do 'sweet spot' charging from 10% to 80% quick charges and get back to work. It's more likely we'd use 200 mile range or a bit higher vehicles. -- The charging times you use in your attempt to support hydrogen are dishonest. Your entire hydrogen reporting is full of misleading statements. It take 2x to 3x as much electricity to produce a mile's worth of H2 than it takes to drive a EV. Add into that much higher electricity cost to the cost of building a huge hydrogen infrastructure. Tesla already has a ~550 mile 18-wheeler. The cost of operation will be much lower than running a fuel cell truck. Hydrogen for long distance flight? Nope. Hydrogen is lightweight but not so much once you add in the tanks. Plus there's not enough room in a passenger jet for hydrogen tanks, passengers, and their luggage. Perhaps a more complex molecule for ships. Ammonia is a possibility and it can be created using renewable electricity. Hydrogen would take up too much space and eat into cargo capacity. This report makes me not want to trust Bloomberg's reporting.
@@psycogeek1031 There's not enough roof surface on typical cars to add many miles. And you'd have to park where the car wouldn't get shaded. There's an interesting car that's probably coming to market called the Aptera. It's kind of a strange looking, three wheel best that's very light weight and very aerodynamic. The extensive top surface of the car is covered with solar panels. If it's parked in the sunshine the panels will generate enough electricity to power the car for 30 (IIRC) miles. If you have a modest daily drive and live in a sunny location you might never need to plug your car in. I suspect it's going to be a viable car. They've got Sandy Munro (top notch engineer who has helped develop an incredible range of products) working with them to make the car easy to manufacture and high quality. You might want to keep a watch for news on it. I expect they'll show the upgraded version in a few months.
There has already been a hydrogen storage tank at a hydrogen generation plant that exploded. It broke windows for 12 miles around the plant. Do you really want to have a tank of explosive fuel on board and get into a high speed accident?
I heard these hydrogen vehicles are very expensive in maintenance. A Tesla battery change is $8k+/-, your gonna start seeing these Tesla EVs on used lots. My first question is not gonna be about the miles....."How many cycles are left?"....as far as stocks....think recycling
20:29 For River Davis: A much more economical and green production of hydrogen may be on the horizon. Appears to be easily scalable and even potentially self-sustaining - article from Journal of Petroleum Technology, March 1, 2021 follows: jpt.spe.org/canadian-operator-works-to-transform-an-oil-field-into-a-hydrogen-factory 2:07 Pun intended? Looks like batteries will replace gasoline cars, hydrogen will replace shipping, diesel (ie commercial vehicles and equipment), and could currently replace regional jets & turbo prop planes, but jet fuel engines are unavoidable for now when it comes to trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific flight. Economical and scaled-up sources of green hydrogen are the key to rationalizing investment in hydrogen infrastructure, which if I understand correctly, will in turn require lots of fiberglass lined piping.
A separate and related issue will be financing the Highway Trust Fund, where I believe it's currently 84% financed by a gas tax not adjusted since '93. I think a lump sum tax on sales of all new vehicles is the most straightforward way to do it; i.e. $2,500~$3,000 straight to the Highway Trust Fund for each new car sold. Then there's existing public transit, which always operates at a loss, and will soon compete with a massive supply surge in robo-taxis... What's the plan Phil!?
Where to start... Our largest challenge is to massively deploy renewable electrical energy generation. A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle using three times the electrical energy as a battery electric vehicle implies that promotion of hydrogen fuel cells adversely impacts our ability to progress toward a fully green electrical grid. While much is made of operating electrolysers when "surplus" renewable energy is being generated, this will be in direct competition with battery storage that can more profitably resell the energy on a daily basis in order to offset peaking generator plants. Hydrogen may initially be successful as both technologies, as well as other storage technologies will have difficulty scaling to absorb the surplus but my money is on battery and even liquid nitrogen energy storage being able to outbid hydrogen for the surplus energy in the not too distant future. This will keep hydrogen as a premium fuel, only successful in niches that cannot currently be filled with the current state of battery technology. Since battery technology has much more opportunity for improvement in energy density and hydrogen fuel cell has only a relatively small opportunity for efficiency improvement, the niche will only become smaller as technology progresses. While batteries currently suffer a weight penalty when looking only at the energy storage component of a vehicle, the weight advantage of direct-drive electric motors vs. engine, transmission and the means to dissipate 70-80% of the thermal energy of fossil fuel or 40-60% of the thermal energy of hydrogen reduces the disparity by a significant amount. While hydrogen has a high energy density vs. mass, it's volumetric energy density is 1/4 that of diesel fuel. Being up to twice as efficient as diesel this still represents the capacity of the pressure vessels being twice that of the saddle tanks on a diesel. I believe hydrogen fuel-cells also operate in conjunction with batteries in order to reduce the dynamic range of operation on the fuel cell, so that is another weight and volume hit. Since these batteries are providing the equipments peak power capability, they are likely not inconsequential. I agree hydrogen is likely to find a niche, I just think it will be very expensive as the majority of our transportation needs will be much more efficiently provided by battery electric vehicles. Some trucks may be required to use hydrogen but the majority will not. This will adversely impact the economies of scale for those trucks, driving the industry to other solutions. Two or more electric trucks platooning loaded only to the weight consistent with the range required to be travelled may wind up being more cost effective than a single hydrogen truck on the same route. The fact that a single battery electric cannot haul the load we expect today over a given challenging route does not automatically imply that the load cannot be more cheaply moved with battery-electric transportation. In summary, because I like to summarize: 1. We should promote the technologies with best overall energy efficiency as long as a portion of the energy is necessarily derived from fossil fuels. 2. Electrical energy storage for grid balancing will likely out compete hydrogen electrolysis for transportation as such systems can make better returns on capital investment vs. hydrogen competing with electricity as transportation energy. 3. Hydrogen, being expensive, will be niche, not achieving economy of scale in the land transportation market. 4. Hydrogen has volumetric energy density issues vs. mass energy density. 5. A hydrogen vehicle, being a more complex system, is likely to have more points of failure. It is, after all, a battery electric with additional fuel-cells and hydrogen storage. Please provide any counter-arguments as I have spent some time trying to make hydrogen work in my mind but have only come up with possibly transoceanic shipping and a few difficult long-haul trucking routes.
@@k1fizz I look at H2 from the perspective of energy input per unit useful energy output combined with the assumption that energy from renewable resources will be a scarce commodity for the foreseeable future. Green H2 has failed to develop infrastructure in this current era when wind and solar regularly face curtailment and energy for portions of the day would be "free" or even negative cost. In the meantime stationary chemical batteries have demonstrated the capacity to be rapidly deployed and to generate revenue on with a much higher cycle efficiency than H2 can theoretically achieve. Such installations can pay more for otherwise curtailed energy yet profit by outbidding fossil peakers during peak demand. This, in turn, is likely to reduce the hours/year an electrolyser can operate efficiently, lowering the LCOE of such facilities. H2 as an industrial energy source, either as a source of thermal energy or consumed in a co-generation facility where the heat rejected from its combustion (fuel-cell or ICE engine or turbine) is also a useful product. Since the percentage of rejected heat is high per unit of motive energy achieved from H2, I am not aware of transportation uses where the majority of the rejected heat would be anything other than waste. Where chemical batteries suffer a gravimetric specific energy penalty, H2 suffers a volumetric specific energy penalty. If the goal is to merely retrofit current transportation technologies then neither is ideal. After absorbing a substantial amount of information on both technologies I am still of the belief that chemical batteries and, most likely, Lithium-based batteries for the next decade will provide the lowest cost per tonne/km or ton/mile on transportation systems properly adapted to their use. You can read this and say my mind is made up. I still consider myself quite open to H2 should the substantial majority of my concerns are simultaneously addressed. The area where I struggle in my thinking is the requirement for intermediate and long-term storage. I need to understand better the material input per kw power capability of renewable generation vs material input per kWh of energy storage times the number of hours one determines the need to have in reserve. In the short term, I only see this requirement as being met by fossil fuels. However, as renewable energy and stationary batteries build out my general impression is that it will be cheaper to overbuild renewable energy generation,, increasing its LCOE than building sufficient storage capacity, which increases the LCOE of the batteries due to normal operation at a higher average state of charge. If H2 can overcome the difficulties with storing vast volumes without significant leaking, once we achieve adequate renewable energy capacity H2 may become competitive. No one technology will solve all our problems. I do have a bias toward lithium-based battery chemistries for the next decade, at least. If the goal is to remove the greatest mass of otherwise fossil-originated CO2 from entering the atmosphere per unit of capital investment, no explanation of H2 I've heard seems a contender. I am certainly open to hearing a plan where H2 is broadly competitive and not just solving niche applications. I have personal experience filling niche needs. The niches tend to erode as the capabilities of the more broadly adopted technology improves. If you don't see a path to achieving a higher efficiency than the competitive technology in the long-term, the cost to the customer of your inefficiency had better be close to zero.
@@mrhickman53 *EDIT* I realized I am not allowed to post links to my sources so I removed them. "No one technology will solve all our problems" That leads me to believe you can still use reason. First, renewable energy is not scarce. *Google CAISO renewable energy curtailment* California curtailed 1.5 billion kWh of clean energy in 2021 due to intermittent supply not matching with demand. This is just a byproduct in our journey to a 100% clean energy grid. California averages 41% clean energy overall, so the amount of curtailment will only increase as we continue from 41% to 100%. Once we assume that clean energy is not actually scarce, a lot of possibilities open up. Let me know if you agree with this and I can continue.
They say hydrogen can be fill up as quickly as ice cars. They forgot to mention that after fill up a car there is a 30 min time to pressurize the system so it can charge another car. So if you are in line it is going to be 35 min for each car in front of you until is your time.
Stupid conversion! US behind? What is the quantity of EV in the States? how can you compare the large country with a small country with population less than a state? Who makes EV? Did Norwegian make a single EV?
Norway does NOT make their own EV's though they already teamed up with NIO.Possibly other Nordic countries will follow suite by siding with China and NIO as opposed to America and Tesla. Though Tesla is building a giga factory in Germany so will see how that changes things. Though this American news channel seems to be pushing/promotic all other car manufacturers except American Tesla. Seems like American media is not promoting their own but betting on others to destroy its own.
The GM commercial is dumb denial. Norway is number one in EV take up because from the start they have been TESLA's number one customer. So it is not a Norway versus USA thing it is a TESLA versus Auto industry thing.
Welcome I'm not paid. I can't use my credit card. This is not the America you know @openai Don't complain don't explain, only love and compassion @bild Good luck for the holistic healing
GM who ? Lol Hahaha Naaah they are gonna get CRUSHED by TESLA and NIO point blank period, even Lucid got their sight on Big Tings and will get a slice of the EV pie before GM. GM is small fry lmao :))))
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Instead of 5 minutes to fill the gas tank, stop to recharge for 4 to 6 hrs. Government will force everyone into electric cars. It will destroy travel and empty the interstates along with all the businesses that line the roads.
When was the last time you only spent 5 minutes to fill up a gasoline car on a holiday weekend? It is not just the act of filling it is the waiting in line to do it. EV driver's park, plug in, go have lunch and 35 minutes later (unless the humans have longer time taking needs) you are back on your road trip. You are going to stop for that lunch anyway. The only difference is your car is charging while parked, while you eat.
@@audiquagaming I'm not from Texas. But based on your problems forming an understandable sentence might we suspect you are from some backward part of the world?
They need to consider liquid biofuels which is great alternative to gasoline vehicles. Also, improving fuel mileage of ethanol vehicle tanks that rival gas tanks which will be difficult to achieve but a great outcome.
I don’t know why they keep saying that more charging stations will solve the problem of charging. More stations equals less queues, but queue length reduction doesn’t reduce the time it takes to charge. People will be charging for hours and hours 😂
@@anthonywalker6168 False, factor of range and charging rate. Charging for hours, sure in primitive EV's, but with advanced modern EV's especially with a range of over 400 miles the occupants will need a break after a few hours , 15-30 mins, which fits in perfectly with charging rates and times
Bad reporting. Nikola was based on lies and has admitted it.
Funny that the average UA-cam commentator knows more and articulates better than Bloomberg reporters who devote their entire lives to this alone... (or at least more info than they want the mainstream).
Absolutely. It's amazing how one cannot trust journalism (on the take)
when you hear someone talk about Tesla as though they are really a car company... think back to when Amazon was just an online book store. yep... the future will be interesting and Bloomberg talking heads are so far off the mark it is laughable.
If Bloomberg is where you get your information... you're gonna have a bad time
@Ezequiel Keenan popppoppppppppppppppppppppppppp
I dont see hydrogen catching up to EV. The infrastructure for it is not there. You guys didn’t mention Lucid. Lucid is going to be the next Tesla in the US, not nio. Nio battery swapping technology will not work in the US, only in China. On top of this, lucid has a factory (more coming) and build everything in house just like Tesla. They dont outsource their cars like Nio does.
why won't battery swapping work in the US? even if it doesn't work, NIO EVs still offer a lot of range especially with the upcoming 150kW batteries
Nikola Motors wasn’t a “rise and fall” story. It was more like “Fraud & Found Out”.
You all probably dont care but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account??
I somehow lost my login password. I would appreciate any help you can give me!
@Amir Brayan Instablaster ;)
@Alvin Khari Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Alvin Khari It did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my account!
@Amir Brayan You are welcome :D
Living off grid out here in the middle of nowhere in the Amazon Rainforest, I can't wait for 5G, Starlink, better batteries, solar systems and all that - as this'll make my work out here a lot easier 🙏💪✌️👍😎♥️🌴 greetings from the Amazon Jungle
H2 will never have the infrastructure to support any vehicles. Every EV owner can charge up every pm in their garage but no one has a H2 station at home. I hate going to the gas station. Would love it to know that I could charge up my car every night in the comfort of my home.
Norway takes the lead? They started the race and have been ahead from the start 😂😂
TESLA is the top car there so TESLA takes the lead in Norway.
Right; they have $6 gasoline yet they sold oil themselves. There isn't anything Ahead with EVs as presently made ; they are battery pigs. Say you have 10,000 lithium ion batteries; you can make 2 Tesla's or 20 Hybrids, booth run all electric for commutes; but since you wasted your batteries on pig EVs you must now make 18 Ice vehicles - smart right Big leaders.
How many car makers they've????
"charging can take an hour at the best of times" actually 0 hours at the best of times. as most of the time you can charge at home or your destination as we have pumps(wall sockets) everywhere. Sick of this misinformation.
And besides that, charging at good chargers will take between 30 and 45 minutes with various newer models. Hyundai's upcoming ionic 5 does 5-80% in 18 minutes at a 350kw charger
@@marcels9658 spot on, this wording of the media creates a fear electric won't work for your needs. When in fact it will save you
time over all, how often do most people even drive over 200miles(320km) especailly without stoping to eat or even pee. This is straight up hidden messaging to sow doubt.
Charging takes time whether you are busy doing other things or waiting by the car. Accept this. Nothing like zero minutes. Picture this: you get home with hardly any charge left them there is an emergency. Where is your zero minutes?
Ev's are not gonna catch on here in the USA. A lot of people don't have garages and they're not gonna be running a cord out in the yard during the cold and rain.Unless you have 240 it's takes a while to charge at home. In the next year or two we are gonna see ICE powered hybrids with zero emisions and that will end EV's just like the automatic starters and mufflers did in the early 1900's. The people that are thinking that Ev's are the future are gonna be stunned when it doesn't happen.
@@samesame2931 I have had an ev for going on 3 years(one car family). I have never run into this situation you mentioned. Once I arrived home with 5% which is still enough to get to my local hospital. Regardless, in 1 hour I will add another 40-50km(25-30miles) of range on my home chager. On average I arrive home with 50-90% left. How often do you drive over even 100miles(160km) in a day! Maybe once a month for your average home.
I bet eventually all car makers will use the same charger in order to grow the market
This is embarrassing how wrong you are about Tesla. You are straight up lying.
18:27 Wow, all those stats are trash. Unbelievably bad job
I can’t believe they said “the electrolytic process to make hydrogen” what happened to steam reformation of petroleum????? What a freaking scam.
@Михаил Михайлов please don’t make comments when you have no idea what you’re talking about.
The waste product is pure CO2
Bloomberg says Tesla model s has a 375 miles range at 18:55 sec it is a lie. 412 miles now and soon with model s plaid plus 520 miles.
Does NIO have a full self driving solution in hand, or at least close to operational? The cost of an EV will be far, far less important than the ability to run a transportation as a service company.
The cost of driving a battery swapping car is higher than a car that charges during low demand periods.
Almost all robotaxi work could be done with only a 100 mile range battery pack. High usage taxis in NYC and LA average 70,000 miles per year, less than 200 miles per day. There are at least three off-peak periods per 24 hour day when robotaxis could rotate in for a quick charge. The could do 'sweet spot' charging from 10% to 80% quick charges and get back to work. It's more likely we'd use 200 mile range or a bit higher vehicles.
--
The charging times you use in your attempt to support hydrogen are dishonest. Your entire hydrogen reporting is full of misleading statements.
It take 2x to 3x as much electricity to produce a mile's worth of H2 than it takes to drive a EV. Add into that much higher electricity cost to the cost of building a huge hydrogen infrastructure.
Tesla already has a ~550 mile 18-wheeler. The cost of operation will be much lower than running a fuel cell truck.
Hydrogen for long distance flight? Nope. Hydrogen is lightweight but not so much once you add in the tanks. Plus there's not enough room in a passenger jet for hydrogen tanks, passengers, and their luggage.
Perhaps a more complex molecule for ships. Ammonia is a possibility and it can be created using renewable electricity. Hydrogen would take up too much space and eat into cargo capacity.
This report makes me not want to trust Bloomberg's reporting.
Then stop watching Bloomberg
@@audiquagaming 'Frain I may have to. I thought Bloomberg was a trusted news source. Perhaps it's just Forbes under a different brandname.
Why not add at least some minor solar generation on the top part of the vehicles ?
It'll pick up some power on the road , and when it is parked.
@@psycogeek1031 There's not enough roof surface on typical cars to add many miles. And you'd have to park where the car wouldn't get shaded.
There's an interesting car that's probably coming to market called the Aptera. It's kind of a strange looking, three wheel best that's very light weight and very aerodynamic. The extensive top surface of the car is covered with solar panels. If it's parked in the sunshine the panels will generate enough electricity to power the car for 30 (IIRC) miles. If you have a modest daily drive and live in a sunny location you might never need to plug your car in.
I suspect it's going to be a viable car. They've got Sandy Munro (top notch engineer who has helped develop an incredible range of products) working with them to make the car easy to manufacture and high quality. You might want to keep a watch for news on it. I expect they'll show the upgraded version in a few months.
High risk of explosion during a vehicle accident. Explosion of hydrogen is very destructive.
There has already been a hydrogen storage tank at a hydrogen generation plant that exploded. It broke windows for 12 miles around the plant. Do you really want to have a tank of explosive fuel on board and get into a high speed accident?
I heard these hydrogen vehicles are very expensive in maintenance. A Tesla battery change is $8k+/-, your gonna start seeing these Tesla EVs on used lots. My first question is not gonna be about the miles....."How many cycles are left?"....as far as stocks....think recycling
The average age of US cars is 12.1 years. That means half of their cars are older. That is another twenty. My neighbour drives a forty year old Volvo.
Hydrogen is basically Beta Maxx.
This is super misleading to ordinary people who's is the bulk of car buyers
@Donald Eldridge you are spreading misinformation. Do you work for a car dealership?
GM?! 😂😂😂
Great...
Damn ass....., since when the California is a country ......!!? 2:14. Definitely it's a very accurate statistic data......😅
20:29 For River Davis: A much more economical and green production of hydrogen may be on the horizon. Appears to be easily scalable and even potentially self-sustaining - article from Journal of Petroleum Technology, March 1, 2021 follows:
jpt.spe.org/canadian-operator-works-to-transform-an-oil-field-into-a-hydrogen-factory
2:07 Pun intended?
Looks like batteries will replace gasoline cars, hydrogen will replace shipping, diesel (ie commercial vehicles and equipment), and could currently replace regional jets & turbo prop planes, but jet fuel engines are unavoidable for now when it comes to trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific flight.
Economical and scaled-up sources of green hydrogen are the key to rationalizing investment in hydrogen infrastructure, which if I understand correctly, will in turn require lots of fiberglass lined piping.
A separate and related issue will be financing the Highway Trust Fund, where I believe it's currently 84% financed by a gas tax not adjusted since '93. I think a lump sum tax on sales of all new vehicles is the most straightforward way to do it; i.e. $2,500~$3,000 straight to the Highway Trust Fund for each new car sold. Then there's existing public transit, which always operates at a loss, and will soon compete with a massive supply surge in robo-taxis... What's the plan Phil!?
Eventually other businesses and consumers buy from Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Nvidia, Microsoft so these are the stocks you want to own....
I expect best Tesla car soon
just mindful with those German automakers with their failed diesel spin
Where to start...
Our largest challenge is to massively deploy renewable electrical energy generation. A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle using three times the electrical energy as a battery electric vehicle implies that promotion of hydrogen fuel cells adversely impacts our ability to progress toward a fully green electrical grid. While much is made of operating electrolysers when "surplus" renewable energy is being generated, this will be in direct competition with battery storage that can more profitably resell the energy on a daily basis in order to offset peaking generator plants. Hydrogen may initially be successful as both technologies, as well as other storage technologies will have difficulty scaling to absorb the surplus but my money is on battery and even liquid nitrogen energy storage being able to outbid hydrogen for the surplus energy in the not too distant future. This will keep hydrogen as a premium fuel, only successful in niches that cannot currently be filled with the current state of battery technology. Since battery technology has much more opportunity for improvement in energy density and hydrogen fuel cell has only a relatively small opportunity for efficiency improvement, the niche will only become smaller as technology progresses.
While batteries currently suffer a weight penalty when looking only at the energy storage component of a vehicle, the weight advantage of direct-drive electric motors vs. engine, transmission and the means to dissipate 70-80% of the thermal energy of fossil fuel or 40-60% of the thermal energy of hydrogen reduces the disparity by a significant amount.
While hydrogen has a high energy density vs. mass, it's volumetric energy density is 1/4 that of diesel fuel. Being up to twice as efficient as diesel this still represents the capacity of the pressure vessels being twice that of the saddle tanks on a diesel. I believe hydrogen fuel-cells also operate in conjunction with batteries in order to reduce the dynamic range of operation on the fuel cell, so that is another weight and volume hit. Since these batteries are providing the equipments peak power capability, they are likely not inconsequential.
I agree hydrogen is likely to find a niche, I just think it will be very expensive as the majority of our transportation needs will be much more efficiently provided by battery electric vehicles. Some trucks may be required to use hydrogen but the majority will not. This will adversely impact the economies of scale for those trucks, driving the industry to other solutions. Two or more electric trucks platooning loaded only to the weight consistent with the range required to be travelled may wind up being more cost effective than a single hydrogen truck on the same route. The fact that a single battery electric cannot haul the load we expect today over a given challenging route does not automatically imply that the load cannot be more cheaply moved with battery-electric transportation.
In summary, because I like to summarize:
1. We should promote the technologies with best overall energy efficiency as long as a portion of the energy is necessarily derived from fossil fuels.
2. Electrical energy storage for grid balancing will likely out compete hydrogen electrolysis for transportation as such systems can make better returns on capital investment vs. hydrogen competing with electricity as transportation energy.
3. Hydrogen, being expensive, will be niche, not achieving economy of scale in the land transportation market.
4. Hydrogen has volumetric energy density issues vs. mass energy density.
5. A hydrogen vehicle, being a more complex system, is likely to have more points of failure. It is, after all, a battery electric with additional fuel-cells and hydrogen storage.
Please provide any counter-arguments as I have spent some time trying to make hydrogen work in my mind but have only come up with possibly transoceanic shipping and a few difficult long-haul trucking routes.
Brilliantly put Mark!
I can provide some counter-arguments, but is your mind already made on pushing batteries or are you actually open to hydrogen?
@@k1fizz I look at H2 from the perspective of energy input per unit useful energy output combined with the assumption that energy from renewable resources will be a scarce commodity for the foreseeable future. Green H2 has failed to develop infrastructure in this current era when wind and solar regularly face curtailment and energy for portions of the day would be "free" or even negative cost. In the meantime stationary chemical batteries have demonstrated the capacity to be rapidly deployed and to generate revenue on with a much higher cycle efficiency than H2 can theoretically achieve. Such installations can pay more for otherwise curtailed energy yet profit by outbidding fossil peakers during peak demand. This, in turn, is likely to reduce the hours/year an electrolyser can operate efficiently, lowering the LCOE of such facilities.
H2 as an industrial energy source, either as a source of thermal energy or consumed in a co-generation facility where the heat rejected from its combustion (fuel-cell or ICE engine or turbine) is also a useful product. Since the percentage of rejected heat is high per unit of motive energy achieved from H2, I am not aware of transportation uses where the majority of the rejected heat would be anything other than waste.
Where chemical batteries suffer a gravimetric specific energy penalty, H2 suffers a volumetric specific energy penalty. If the goal is to merely retrofit current transportation technologies then neither is ideal. After absorbing a substantial amount of information on both technologies I am still of the belief that chemical batteries and, most likely, Lithium-based batteries for the next decade will provide the lowest cost per tonne/km or ton/mile on transportation systems properly adapted to their use.
You can read this and say my mind is made up. I still consider myself quite open to H2 should the substantial majority of my concerns are simultaneously addressed.
The area where I struggle in my thinking is the requirement for intermediate and long-term storage. I need to understand better the material input per kw power capability of renewable generation vs material input per kWh of energy storage times the number of hours one determines the need to have in reserve. In the short term, I only see this requirement as being met by fossil fuels. However, as renewable energy and stationary batteries build out my general impression is that it will be cheaper to overbuild renewable energy generation,, increasing its LCOE than building sufficient storage capacity, which increases the LCOE of the batteries due to normal operation at a higher average state of charge. If H2 can overcome the difficulties with storing vast volumes without significant leaking, once we achieve adequate renewable energy capacity H2 may become competitive.
No one technology will solve all our problems. I do have a bias toward lithium-based battery chemistries for the next decade, at least. If the goal is to remove the greatest mass of otherwise fossil-originated CO2 from entering the atmosphere per unit of capital investment, no explanation of H2 I've heard seems a contender. I am certainly open to hearing a plan where H2 is broadly competitive and not just solving niche applications.
I have personal experience filling niche needs. The niches tend to erode as the capabilities of the more broadly adopted technology improves. If you don't see a path to achieving a higher efficiency than the competitive technology in the long-term, the cost to the customer of your inefficiency had better be close to zero.
@@mrhickman53 *EDIT* I realized I am not allowed to post links to my sources so I removed them. "No one technology will solve all our problems" That leads me to believe you can still use reason. First, renewable energy is not scarce. *Google CAISO renewable energy curtailment* California curtailed 1.5 billion kWh of clean energy in 2021 due to intermittent supply not matching with demand. This is just a byproduct in our journey to a 100% clean energy grid. California averages 41% clean energy overall, so the amount of curtailment will only increase as we continue from 41% to 100%. Once we assume that clean energy is not actually scarce, a lot of possibilities open up. Let me know if you agree with this and I can continue.
They say hydrogen can be fill up as quickly as ice cars. They forgot to mention that after fill up a car there is a 30 min time to pressurize the system so it can charge another car. So if you are in line it is going to be 35 min for each car in front of you until is your time.
After watching the vid. Realization tesla is not the only ev. Scream short tesla on March 6
stop talking about gm, gm doesnt exist in most of the world
Stupid conversion! US behind? What is the quantity of EV in the States? how can you compare the large country with a small country with population less than a state? Who makes EV? Did Norwegian make a single EV?
Norway does NOT make their own EV's though they already teamed up with NIO.Possibly other Nordic countries will follow suite by siding with China and NIO as opposed to America and Tesla. Though Tesla is building a giga factory in Germany so will see how that changes things. Though this American news channel seems to be pushing/promotic all other car manufacturers except American Tesla. Seems like American media is not promoting their own but betting on others to destroy its own.
The GM commercial is dumb denial. Norway is number one in EV take up because from the start they have been TESLA's number one customer. So it is not a Norway versus USA thing it is a TESLA versus Auto industry thing.
Basic factual errors throughout this video
California is still an American state so why do you break it out. Trying to make Europe look good?
Welcome I'm not paid. I can't use my credit card. This is not the America you know @openai Don't complain don't explain, only love and compassion @bild Good luck for the holistic healing
Buy more Tesla stock when you see all this “competition” hype! You will not regret owning Tesla.
GM who ? Lol Hahaha Naaah they are gonna get CRUSHED by TESLA and NIO point blank period, even Lucid got their sight on Big Tings and will get a slice of the EV pie before GM. GM is small fry lmao :))))
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@bloomberg you need to keep your vides between 10 to 15 munites .at max ..... else who ant to share will not ... sorry 20 munite is long .
Electric cars don't have the thump that gasoline cars have.
Instead of 5 minutes to fill the gas tank, stop to recharge for 4 to 6 hrs. Government will force everyone into electric cars. It will destroy travel and empty the interstates along with all the businesses that line the roads.
So, going with FUD?
When was the last time you only spent 5 minutes to fill up a gasoline car on a holiday weekend? It is not just the act of filling it is the waiting in line to do it. EV driver's park, plug in, go have lunch and 35 minutes later (unless the humans have longer time taking needs) you are back on your road trip. You are going to stop for that lunch anyway. The only difference is your car is charging while parked, while you eat.
Silliest comparison I ever heard. What is the population comparison Norway vs US???????????????
Sales per capita.
@@bobwallace9753 exactly never mind population. Look how stupid Texas is your probably from Texas lol
@@audiquagaming I'm not from Texas. But based on your problems forming an understandable sentence might we suspect you are from some backward part of the world?
Too expensive, too long to recharge, too few charging stations.
They need to consider liquid biofuels which is great alternative to gasoline vehicles. Also, improving fuel mileage of ethanol vehicle tanks that rival gas tanks which will be difficult to achieve but a great outcome.
I don’t know why they keep saying that more charging stations will solve the problem of charging. More stations equals less queues, but queue length reduction doesn’t reduce the time it takes to charge. People will be charging for hours and hours 😂
@@anthonywalker6168 False, factor of range and charging rate. Charging for hours, sure in primitive EV's, but with advanced modern EV's especially with a range of over 400 miles the occupants will need a break after a few hours , 15-30 mins, which fits in perfectly with charging rates and times
QQ