I think Skreech could work as a LH, unlocked after a quest battle, similar to Ariel and Kroak. It would give CA an excuse to make him ridiculously powerful and it makes sense for him to be available for all the Skaven factions. That being said, he is one of those LHs, like Ariel, who I wish were given the Isabella treatment and could be played as their own LLs in their own faction while being LHs when playing as anyone else...
Instead of multiple pre-set Stormfiends units, imagine a trimmed down version of Daniel's feature, with a skavenified build-your-own-Stormfiends unit system, unlocking new types/pieces/options through research or minor quests and battles and such. Admittedly it'd be a lot of work, but I think that could be amazing.
Kinda sad that we didn't get to see Gotrek and Felix do battle with Thanquol one last time. But..... we still have options in age of sigmar. And plenty of time for quite a few rematchs, old and new.
On tabletop stormfiends don't get any combination you'd like in a squad. One has to take ratling guns OR grinderfist, one takes shock gauntlets OR doom-flayers, and one takes windlauncher OR warpfire thrower. In practice this means you usually pick whether your squad is a melee focused or range focused squad, then you pick between the gauntlets. Currently in the game shock gauntlets do critical strikes to give you potential to get lucky and do huge damage spikes, and doom-flayers are more consistent and have better base stats, but without the potential to go off.
The Exalted Daemonic Verminlords lord version should be extremely powerful lords, similar in power or even stronger than bloodline Vampire Lords and the Exalted Daemon and Daemon Prince, but the player would be limited in acquiring them. Being able to spam an Exalted Verminlord every turn like the current generic lords feels wrong.
It would be cool if the units got integrated into the faction mechanics for clan skryre and moulder, I think the stormfiends could be really cool as a front line for mortars and other stuff like that to clear out infantry as a weapons team army alternative bc they would just get shot by jezzails and ratling guns if you put them in front of those and stuff like rat summons just get wiped out too by that stuff.
26:25 I don't think any unit has both Bonus vs Infantry and vs Large without use of items or a toggle ability. I don't know that it would grant any benefit over raw stats considering what they do for the system (both just granting +MA and WS vs that target type). I guess it comes down to if the "Bonus vs ____" takes effect after debuffs (and could therefore raise hit chance after a MA debuff stacking would bring them below 0). Either way I agree they are unlikely to add it here as it would make it hard to judge what the unit can do at a glance of the unit card.
i imagine the verminlords with Glaives will be similar to the carnosaurs for the lizardmen. They say anti-large and do well against those targets but their attack speed and animations would it make so they also preform quite well against infantry.
The number of models hit (5) and Frenzy also do a fair amount of work for the Carnosaur. While Frenzy is active, they have a 55 MA and their WS is 26 + 79 AP vs each infantry model. That is better damage per model than a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth with 58 MA and 6 models hit (27 + 67 AP per infantry model). Compare this to a Giant with 65 MA and 11 models hit (18 + 45 AP per model hit). Of note, a Giant will quite often not swing at center mass, so they will get 1 shots, but fewer kills if they hit their maximum number of targets. As a frame of reference for 'average' infantry, I typically look at Empire Swordsman and Greatswords. Swordsman have 32 MD and 69 HP per model. Greatswords have 30 MD and 76 HP per model.
@@generalgrizzly7914 It is hard to say. It depends on how high the weapon strength would be and what abilities it is given. Most pure casters have 4, the lowest I've seen is 3 (Skaven Assassin). 5-8 is pretty common for a melee lord. 8-10 is common for a monster (giants hit 11, and normal greater daemon of nurgle hit 12). Most of the greater daemons (barring Tzeentch and Nurgle) hit 8. Tzeentch hits 6 (except Karios still hits 8...but we all know kairos will never hit anything). Nurgle hits 10 on exalted and 12 on normal, but the exalted also have a drain effect in Pestilent Decay to finish off models that aren't killed by the swing. With that in mind, I would probably lean toward hitting 8.
Stormfiends are definitely one of those units that need to be high tier and high cost considering they are combining the power of weapon teams and rat ogres. I personally don't have a preference but one idea that I have heard is that there should be two generic weapon loadouts with another being used by an RoR. Skreech regarding if he should be a LH or LL really depends on what CA's plans for him are considering he would fit well in either category. Verminlords I think should either be implemented as you suggested or have one be a lord choice and the other three heroes. As we don't have a Skryre or Moulder one I don't think the ascension mechanic would fit. Thanquol should have a quest battle against Gotrek and Felix with perhaps an unique lord trait.
Well, i wouldnt say Thanquol and Verminlords are End Times content, they were well established before. Stormfiends should be a T5 unit definitly. Giant rat ogres with weapon team equipment are brutal. I think the best option would be to make two different unit options and add a third weapon options as a RoR.
@@ruas4721 ya but the verminlords of yore weren't as specialized, meanwhile Thanquol and Boneripper are powerful pre-endtimes they both receive a huge powerboost.
For the stormfiends I think they should have the approach of having 2 base versions, doomflayers as an obvious mega meat slapper unit, and then the warpfire variant as the starting ranged variant, solid range with high damage. They then should have a side/upgrade system similar to the champions of chaos DLC, have the remaining 4 as upgrades to their respective variants. Doomflayers can turn into grinderists or shock guantlets and warpfire into windlauncher and rating cannons. As for Skreech I am okay with him as a universal LH for the skaven or have him in a Isabella situation where only the player can play as them otherwise they are a LH and maybe that makes thanquol and boneripper into a LH. However I believe Skreech will likely be a LH if CA only did one LL because as they've shown with Malakai they will choose a character who has more personality than ones that make more lore sense. It would be cool if we could have our cake and eat it too and both can switch between hero and lord and maybe both in the same faction? They're just tied at the hip that even if Skreech is a universal LH Thanquol would likely have him automatically such as gor-roq with kroak and malakai with Gotrek and Felix.
Anti-Large AND Anti-Infantry would basically just be high attack and damage stats. I mean, that's the point, isn't it? That's just what they do. And are Verminlords really also Daemon Prince'd sometimes? I wasn't aware of this.
All of the verminlords could be an special endtimes RoR. Where you get access to them if you ever reach a minimum turn number or unlock them with quests.
I would just be happy to get Thanquol, with Boneripper as a legendary hero. Vermin lords would be nice, but for me I would want them based on the older models, I think they look much better
I kind of feel like this is too much to expect for 1 dlc. More likely we get thanquel with the stormfiends in one and the demons in another dlc. That is of course not taking a "champions of chaos" approach into considetation but we'll see.
With regards to the Exalted Verminlords, I think they’ll copy and paste the mechanics from for getting them from the Warriors of Chaos and monogod factions. That is, a generic Verminlord SEM and exalted verminlords that ascended from Skaven lords.
I agree with what someone else said, he should get the Isabella treatment and be a LL option for the player to play as. Otherwise he is a LH for other skaven factions.
My problem with like most of these is they’re like insanely OP, like you me have to knee cap stormfiends to an insane degree. Or give other factions their own insane units.
option two always option two hate nerfs nerfs are a plague and nine times out of ten can simply be solved with more units or better player strats especially when it comes to rts games rpg games also have their version of this.
Would like Packmasters made into units and the hero one reskinned and renamed into Master Moulder. Not to mention Master Mutators and Harbingers of Mutation.
@@thegreatbookofgrudges6953 Yep. Plague Pontifex and Master Mutator generic lords, Master Moulder and Harbinger of Mutations generic heroes...am I missing something else here? Also wish the Verminlords for Skryre and Moulder were a Cyberdemon rat and notThe Thing (even more so than the Thing-Thing RoR) considering how Verminlords change with the Clans they are connected to.
Can we please stop turning perfectly viable LLs into LHs for absolutely no reason? Skreech is the closest the Skaven have to an actual Race leader, he should be a LL, preferably FLC since most of the models work would already be done.
Honestly, No. Skaven already have 6 legendary lords, that represent most of the core themes of their roster, and with how closely tied Thanquol and Skreech are they’re likely going to be coming together and it’s a choice between one of the two.
Just because they´re going to include some content of that fanfiction called "End Times", it doesn´t mean that now GW is going to let them include everything...we have been here before (Tzaangors drama, for example)
I think a large part of my gripe with the end times is the whole part where completely ludicrous characters and factions which could and did wipe their asses with established strong units and heroes just appeared out of nowhere with no build-up and lackluster lore explanation for why we had never seen or even heard of them before. It felt like a badly written fanfic. And all of that is besides the fact that people who joined the game during 8th edition spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on something that became obsoleted and discarded shortly thereafter.
I think Skreech could work as a LH, unlocked after a quest battle, similar to Ariel and Kroak. It would give CA an excuse to make him ridiculously powerful and it makes sense for him to be available for all the Skaven factions. That being said, he is one of those LHs, like Ariel, who I wish were given the Isabella treatment and could be played as their own LLs in their own faction while being LHs when playing as anyone else...
Instead of multiple pre-set Stormfiends units, imagine a trimmed down version of Daniel's feature, with a skavenified build-your-own-Stormfiends unit system, unlocking new types/pieces/options through research or minor quests and battles and such. Admittedly it'd be a lot of work, but I think that could be amazing.
Probably couldn't work for MP
@@oldtoby4062 Yeah, fair point. I don't play MP so I didn't think of that. Ah well.
MP could just have some presets representing the original tabletop storm fiends @@oldtoby4062
they arent a character so you couldnt use the "Daniel" system but you could use something like scrap or woc unit upgrade system
@@phantomthunder203 That's the safe bet, it could work pretty well imo
Kinda sad that we didn't get to see Gotrek and Felix do battle with Thanquol one last time. But..... we still have options in age of sigmar. And plenty of time for quite a few rematchs, old and new.
Who knows, I foresee a skaven quest battle featuring them as enemies.
On tabletop stormfiends don't get any combination you'd like in a squad. One has to take ratling guns OR grinderfist, one takes shock gauntlets OR doom-flayers, and one takes windlauncher OR warpfire thrower. In practice this means you usually pick whether your squad is a melee focused or range focused squad, then you pick between the gauntlets. Currently in the game shock gauntlets do critical strikes to give you potential to get lucky and do huge damage spikes, and doom-flayers are more consistent and have better base stats, but without the potential to go off.
I'm looking forward to Grey Seer Thanquol and yet I am more interested in the Screaming Bells!
I think it would be really cool but there’s no way we’re getting all of these variants
would love to be proven wrong
The Exalted Daemonic Verminlords lord version should be extremely powerful lords, similar in power or even stronger than bloodline Vampire Lords and the Exalted Daemon and Daemon Prince, but the player would be limited in acquiring them. Being able to spam an Exalted Verminlord every turn like the current generic lords feels wrong.
It would be cool if the units got integrated into the faction mechanics for clan skryre and moulder, I think the stormfiends could be really cool as a front line for mortars and other stuff like that to clear out infantry as a weapons team army alternative bc they would just get shot by jezzails and ratling guns if you put them in front of those and stuff like rat summons just get wiped out too by that stuff.
26:25 I don't think any unit has both Bonus vs Infantry and vs Large without use of items or a toggle ability.
I don't know that it would grant any benefit over raw stats considering what they do for the system (both just granting +MA and WS vs that target type). I guess it comes down to if the "Bonus vs ____" takes effect after debuffs (and could therefore raise hit chance after a MA debuff stacking would bring them below 0).
Either way I agree they are unlikely to add it here as it would make it hard to judge what the unit can do at a glance of the unit card.
i imagine the verminlords with Glaives will be similar to the carnosaurs for the lizardmen. They say anti-large and do well against those targets but their attack speed and animations would it make so they also preform quite well against infantry.
The number of models hit (5) and Frenzy also do a fair amount of work for the Carnosaur. While Frenzy is active, they have a 55 MA and their WS is 26 + 79 AP vs each infantry model.
That is better damage per model than a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth with 58 MA and 6 models hit (27 + 67 AP per infantry model).
Compare this to a Giant with 65 MA and 11 models hit (18 + 45 AP per model hit). Of note, a Giant will quite often not swing at center mass, so they will get 1 shots, but fewer kills if they hit their maximum number of targets.
As a frame of reference for 'average' infantry, I typically look at Empire Swordsman and Greatswords.
Swordsman have 32 MD and 69 HP per model. Greatswords have 30 MD and 76 HP per model.
@xvim7106 wow I was not aware of those stats. So where do you think the verminlord would fall under as the max entities it can hit?
@@generalgrizzly7914 It is hard to say. It depends on how high the weapon strength would be and what abilities it is given.
Most pure casters have 4, the lowest I've seen is 3 (Skaven Assassin). 5-8 is pretty common for a melee lord. 8-10 is common for a monster (giants hit 11, and normal greater daemon of nurgle hit 12).
Most of the greater daemons (barring Tzeentch and Nurgle) hit 8. Tzeentch hits 6 (except Karios still hits 8...but we all know kairos will never hit anything). Nurgle hits 10 on exalted and 12 on normal, but the exalted also have a drain effect in Pestilent Decay to finish off models that aren't killed by the swing.
With that in mind, I would probably lean toward hitting 8.
@xvim7106 ya that would be a likely reasonable spot for the verminlords to hit on average I can see it go lower or higher depending on the type.
Stormfiends are definitely one of those units that need to be high tier and high cost considering they are combining the power of weapon teams and rat ogres. I personally don't have a preference but one idea that I have heard is that there should be two generic weapon loadouts with another being used by an RoR.
Skreech regarding if he should be a LH or LL really depends on what CA's plans for him are considering he would fit well in either category. Verminlords I think should either be implemented as you suggested or have one be a lord choice and the other three heroes. As we don't have a Skryre or Moulder one I don't think the ascension mechanic would fit.
Thanquol should have a quest battle against Gotrek and Felix with perhaps an unique lord trait.
Im very very hyped for this!! OMG CA DO IT!
Well, i wouldnt say Thanquol and Verminlords are End Times content, they were well established before.
Stormfiends should be a T5 unit definitly. Giant rat ogres with weapon team equipment are brutal. I think the best option would be to make two different unit options and add a third weapon options as a RoR.
True, but the iterations Sotek is talking about here come from the End Times rather than how the units looked and acted in previous incarnations.
@@archmageeldran2567 In the end they are just more modern designs for 20 years old models. Nothing realy new.
@@ruas4721 ya but the verminlords of yore weren't as specialized, meanwhile Thanquol and Boneripper are powerful pre-endtimes they both receive a huge powerboost.
What should Thanquol’s campaign mechanics be?
Plans only you have a timer till Gotrek and Felix thwart you
For the stormfiends I think they should have the approach of having 2 base versions, doomflayers as an obvious mega meat slapper unit, and then the warpfire variant as the starting ranged variant, solid range with high damage.
They then should have a side/upgrade system similar to the champions of chaos DLC, have the remaining 4 as upgrades to their respective variants. Doomflayers can turn into grinderists or shock guantlets and warpfire into windlauncher and rating cannons.
As for Skreech I am okay with him as a universal LH for the skaven or have him in a Isabella situation where only the player can play as them otherwise they are a LH and maybe that makes thanquol and boneripper into a LH.
However I believe Skreech will likely be a LH if CA only did one LL because as they've shown with Malakai they will choose a character who has more personality than ones that make more lore sense. It would be cool if we could have our cake and eat it too and both can switch between hero and lord and maybe both in the same faction? They're just tied at the hip that even if Skreech is a universal LH Thanquol would likely have him automatically such as gor-roq with kroak and malakai with Gotrek and Felix.
Anti-Large AND Anti-Infantry would basically just be high attack and damage stats. I mean, that's the point, isn't it? That's just what they do.
And are Verminlords really also Daemon Prince'd sometimes? I wasn't aware of this.
All of the verminlords could be an special endtimes RoR. Where you get access to them if you ever reach a minimum turn number or unlock them with quests.
I would just be happy to get Thanquol, with Boneripper as a legendary hero. Vermin lords would be nice, but for me I would want them based on the older models, I think they look much better
I kind of feel like this is too much to expect for 1 dlc. More likely we get thanquel with the stormfiends in one and the demons in another dlc. That is of course not taking a "champions of chaos" approach into considetation but we'll see.
With regards to the Exalted Verminlords, I think they’ll copy and paste the mechanics from for getting them from the Warriors of Chaos and monogod factions.
That is, a generic Verminlord SEM and exalted verminlords that ascended from Skaven lords.
Love this style video
keep it up
I think Screech should be a LL who buffs other vermin lords.
When's the queek headtaker video that was promised months ago?
God, i pray we get this dlc. Pls,
I! NEED! IT!
Skreech Verminking should be a lord imo, I get the argument for LH but I think he deserved lord treatment with option as a LH
I agree with what someone else said, he should get the Isabella treatment and be a LL option for the player to play as. Otherwise he is a LH for other skaven factions.
And despite doing all that Gotrek will still not remember him
My problem with like most of these is they’re like insanely OP, like you me have to knee cap stormfiends to an insane degree. Or give other factions their own insane units.
option two always option two hate nerfs nerfs are a plague and nine times out of ten can simply be solved with more units or better player strats especially when it comes to rts games rpg games also have their version of this.
Thank thank you so much for this 🤗
That’s is my Agreement for thinking about that, I hope CA would implement this in the future featuring the end times they’ve been discussing with
Please Thanquol for TW!
Sotek! Who is going to be LL 100
All the Stormfiends
Would like Packmasters made into units and the hero one reskinned and renamed into Master Moulder.
Not to mention Master Mutators and Harbingers of Mutation.
Master Moulder sounds much better. And also We haven't had Plague Pontifex lord character for Clan Pestilens
@@thegreatbookofgrudges6953 Yep.
Plague Pontifex and Master Mutator generic lords, Master Moulder and Harbinger of Mutations generic heroes...am I missing something else here?
Also wish the Verminlords for Skryre and Moulder were a Cyberdemon rat and notThe Thing (even more so than the Thing-Thing RoR) considering how Verminlords change with the Clans they are connected to.
I think that we could have Thanquol as a LH, and he can summon Skreech like Malakai does his ship.
Can we please stop turning perfectly viable LLs into LHs for absolutely no reason? Skreech is the closest the Skaven have to an actual Race leader, he should be a LL, preferably FLC since most of the models work would already be done.
Honestly, No. Skaven already have 6 legendary lords, that represent most of the core themes of their roster, and with how closely tied Thanquol and Skreech are they’re likely going to be coming together and it’s a choice between one of the two.
Still wish Harry and Akeold had been lords. Ariel too, atleast with a vlad/Isabella with her and Orion.
@@chrisspink8873would they lead armies in lore? Harry and aekhold? And ariel? Cant she just be his wife hero in the same army
@@jobvermuyen5382 Aekhold most certainly does lead armies, hell he is responsible for Praag getting destroyed.
Just because they´re going to include some content of that fanfiction called "End Times", it doesn´t mean that now GW is going to let them include everything...we have been here before (Tzaangors drama, for example)
I hate ENDTIMES
I think a large part of my gripe with the end times is the whole part where completely ludicrous characters and factions which could and did wipe their asses with established strong units and heroes just appeared out of nowhere with no build-up and lackluster lore explanation for why we had never seen or even heard of them before. It felt like a badly written fanfic. And all of that is besides the fact that people who joined the game during 8th edition spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on something that became obsoleted and discarded shortly thereafter.
@@SleepyFen GW : I want profit and I want it now
Model-wise it's fine.
My actual hate for it is the whole damn writing and character assassinations/idiotic deaths.
@@CommanderBohn unpopukar opinion but I hate the models too
@@tunencio7288 Yeah. Some are either too clean or too ridiculous.
The Nurgle ones however are great.
5:44 touché