Ha ha, it'll be a while! To begin with, you can't go wrong with the boxed set. Kit them all out with what you think looks cool. By the time that's painted up, I'll have the Dark Angels covered :D
One unique unit of theirs that works really well is the Inner Circle Knights Cenobium. They are meant to get real close but if they do then they will wreck most units.
@@blackbriargaming5483 We're still waiting on it 😅Hopefully you revisit this series when you have the time; we miss your heresy videos, they are the best! :)
Errata Update: 1. The Master of Signals can now declare at the start of each turn if the disruptor is turned on or off. 2. Reaver Aggressors now confirmed to become Troops and gain the Line subtype in Black Reaving Right of War. Sadly only Abaddon or Warmongers can Teleport in with Justaerin as Deep Strike does not carry over to attached characters. Also, Reavers still can't take Bolters or Volkite Chargers like in 1.0 but +1 W and Chainaxes for free is an acceptable trade-off IMO.
My sons of Horus are gunna lean so heavily into the black reaving I think love the idea of the way they are presented in the books as a speartip of gang raised brutalists going straight for a decapitation strike
Thanks for the detailed rundown! I'm new to HH, leaning a bit fluffy with SoH allied with EC, but trying to build something fairly functional too, so info like this is really useful.
I was thinking of trying to get the most out of the AoD box and one 10 man mk3 box and some other bitz I have using some conversion, so my starter 2000 list is: SoH- axe Praetor, 20 man tac squad with chainsaw bayos, 5 man recon with nemesis, spartan carrying 10 man cataphractii with power fists (2 with chainfists, one the sergeant), Dread with melta. EC - sword prateor, 10 man tac squad with chainsaw bayos, 5 man elite squad with power swords.
Sounds solid! Remember that if you make SoH the Allied Detachment, you can give them a Dark Emissary and make them all stubborn. So that might be the better way to go?? I'd also be careful with running a five strong squad without a transport or other sneaky mode of delivery/protection. They'll disappear pretty quick.
Didn't realize how good the reivers were, definitely gonna run some reivers but I also love my terminators, good thing I already got the box like 80% painted lol
one critique I have for you, its a small one at that but: You should include a finish list as an example at the end of the video. It would help for me at least! : )
The trouble with SoH, is it really feels like the cost of Justaerin, Reavers, and Abaddon had the Legion Trait and one of their RoW baked into their cost, unlike many other legions. They are straight up worse compared to most other legion equivalents, which is BIG sad.
Good analysis Charles, looking forward to getting some spikey bois back on the table. I particularly like the idea of a 'sacrificial' unit to get into combat before allowing reavers to get a rage buff.
@@keepanator i just don't know how i feel about that PDF hey 😅 I'm collecting my thoughts before addressing it. But I'm honestly tempted not to consider it in any of my analysis. It's kind of a mess 😬
On the topic of Banestrike, only Independent Characters, Seekers, and Veterans can take Banestrike Bolters as an upgrade (I know that Justaerin Terminators have them as default), and to be quite frank you're better off leaving the Banestrike off of the Seekers despite it being a free upgrade for them if you so choose - their default Kraken Bolters are both more versatile and Scorpius Rounds in particular are almost twice as likely to score Breaching shots as Banestrike could on a per shot basis. They're a definite must-have on Veterans though at 2pts/model (this doesn't translate over to Command Squads, by the way). As for my own personal build for a future Luna Wolves army (I will be going Loyalist with them), I'm actually eschewing the Heavy sub-type altogether, instead dedicating them to taking the Recon Company Rite of War instead of the Legion-specific ones. Just for troops alone, that will account for two 5-man Recon Squads (compulsory) with nemesis bolters, two 20-man despoiler squads, and at least one Seeker squad with chain bayonets, ultimately meaning that I can potentially have up to 4 Troops units, of which two are Line Infantry, infiltrating onto objectives and/or setting up to pin and disrupt enemy infantry units. Padding that out further, while a Reaver Squad, Vigilator, and maybe a Librarian or Pathfinder will be in order, I intend on padding out the bulk of its vehicle compliment in Sabre Strike Tanks and Sicarans (with one being an Arcus for token anti-air), and maybe a land speeder squadron for spotlight support (With Night Fighting being a sure thing on a 2+ at the start of the game, spotlights on a cheap unit are incredibly useful).
Sounds fantastic! Great idea for using land speeders as search lights fodder! Didn't even pick that up yet. Agreed on Seeker ammunition. Banestrike is a trap.
@@blackbriargaming5483 I should rescind my earlier comment about land speeders and searchlights - They can't take them in 2.0. Still, I would recommend slapping a searchlight on at least some vehicles that can take them. Recommended priority for such would be aiming for one vehicle in each squadron you take, if not on rhinos. Likewise about taking despoiler squads in a Recon Company Rite of War, even with a Legion that favours close combat like Sons of Horus. While it's tempting to try to take full advantage of the Legion special rules, oftentimes you're better off simply using the special rules as another tool in the box, especially when a Rite of War is involved. My Salamanders had this same issue in 1.0 where, while they technically had the benefit of taking flamers with +1 strength, were more in a position to benefit from the Covenant of Fire's Master-Crafted Melta weapons and vehicle 5+FNP. It didn't preclude me from including at least one flamer support squad, but that was about all I could invest into the offensive aspect of their Legion rules at the time. The same follows for a Sons of Horus Recon Company, in which the need to have units outside of your deployment zone if you intend on having any fun units on the table first turn is more important than amassing multiple 20-man assault blobs. With that in mind, there's nothing stopping you from giving bayonets and melta bombs to 10-man recon squads as low-threat units that can punch above their weight. You'll be able to get your Legion benefit that way.
This is a lot to take in, especially for a new player. I feel like it would help if there were more notes of what you say in the video on screen, as it is just so much helpful information. I guess I will have to watch it again and take my own notes. I just started collecting Sons of Horus, and I heard they are a bit weaker than most other legions.. I haven't got any experience though, so I don't know. But i've heard this from multiple experienced players/channels so far. I kind of want a fluffy army with cool units that I like, but losing always isn't fun, so I guess I'll have to do a middle ground somewhat.
On my Sargent can I take a power fist and a combi bolter? Or can I only use a pistol with a power fist? Having some confusion on legal Sargent loadouts and what I can put on my model. Thanks
Do you mean on tactical squads? In that case he adds the power fist to his gear but has to exchange his standard bolter for a combi-bolter. If you mean Reavers then the only restriction is that the Chieftain is the only one who can take artificer armour and a melta bomb but can't take one of the weapons which can be bought for Reavers only (like a meltagun). Otherwise he can do everything the squad can. Also, there is no option to take combi-bolters for Reavers anymore in 2.0
concerning black reaving, when it comes to the fast attack option in a force that already has reavers, would taking seeker squads be unnecessary or overkill? i'm still at the building stage and want to have a small but functional force around this rite of war so i know what to properly invest in.
I recommend, if you have the HQ slots, get a cheiftan squad, and slap the MoS into the group, give the cheiftains lances, and the MoS a shotgun. It dose wonders
Maybe I'm missing something, but are Carsoran axes kinda naff? Can't see why I'd take them over other power weapons. Also with the new Legacies PDF we can take Reavers with jump packs again. Though they are a separate unit so RoW and such won't apply to them. Maybe that will be errata'd? Either way it seems like a better way to run them unless you are going heavy into Black Reaving.
So the axes have specialist weapon, which could be useful for kitting our a character for flexibility (with a power fist) while still getting the +1 attack. Breaching also goes to AP2. So you've potentially got a weapon hitting at initiative, but also at AP2 33% of the time, which is considered quite powerful in Heresy. In regards to the PDF. Not sure how I feel about it yet. It's a bit of a mess. Will have to do a video and stance on it at some point soon.
@@blackbriargaming5483 I hadn't considered the powerfist combo, even though I'm doing a similar thing on one of my HQ lads with a fist and paragon blade (purely for Space Crusade nostalgia admittedly). I'd been comparing them to power swords, but double checking that, I was going off my memory of rending from like, 4th edition? Where it was on to hit rolls not to wound. The axes compare pretty favourably if you actually read the rules it seems lol. Thanks. The PDF is definitely messy, and some unit's statlines just make no sense. Still, it's better than nothing I feel.
While the legion RoW are very flavorful. Im thinking of a Pride of the Legion build. Its lets u take custom vet tacticals to sort out your shooting or melee needs. Then it also lets u take the named terminators as troops. Its a win win imo.
Drop pod assault is hurting in HH2.0. As you have to drop first turn, you don't really have an opportunity to prep the battlefield with some pinning or sniper or augury scanners first. My advice would be to make sure you're bringing TOUGH units down onto the table that can take some shooting before stepping out of their drop pods. This is very much a fluffy list in this edition, made for fun that'll struggle on the table against anything too tough. But definitely still fun! My plan is to do a build video for all the core RoW in the future too :D
Where can i find the list ? I'm not that goot in english and it would be easier if i could read it. I've been on your FB but i didn't find it, thank you !!
We'll get there eventually 😁 In the meantime, lots of bolters, predators and vinducators. Artillery, outside of quad launchers, seems like a trap. AP4 pie plates are going to disappoint every time.
Interested in taking up the sons of the Arch - Traitor himself, and wondering if its worth buying 2 sets of justaerin upgrades to turn the cataphractii in the AoD box into some Cheap justaerin, buying the mk IV head upgrader ( i find them better than the new ones )as well getting the SoH cataphractii praetor to lead the force as i will likely sell off the existing praetors to my friends - either way, excellent video!
You are 100% correct! Just had another look. He confers FnP to a unit when they deepstrike but not deepstrike itself. My bad! He, however, does have deep strike.
Thankyou for the analysis and sample lists. What do you think about seekers with banestrike bolters? I'm kinda tempted, because it's a thing they can have that others can't, but the sniper rifles just seem better?
Nemesis bolters are 100% better. Seekers and Recon Marines are going to be popular. I even think the Seeker's regular ammunition is better than Banesteike too 😅
Banestrike overall really isn't worth it on Seekers. There is a significant difference between 10 Scorpius shots dealing (average) 4-5 breaching shots at 24" and 20 Banestrike shots dealing 2 breaching shots in a 9" rapid fire range, which is much more in the favour of the Seekers' default Kraken Bolters by a long shot. Really, the units to slap it on are your melee-centric veterans. As for Nemesis bolters, while you can give them to your Seekers, it'll be more efficient of you to load up a Recon squad with them instead and employ them as proper snipers with the Skirmish sub-type (+1 to cover saves while in terrain) and shroud bombs (counts as being 6" further away when being shot at). Recon are also a cheap way of running melta bombs as a tank-hunter unit.
@@blackbriargaming5483 Legiones Astartes Unit Types (LA/LH pg95): A unit that contains only models with the Skirmish sub-type has a unit coherency range of 3" instead of 2", and increases all Cover Saves granted by terrain features by 1 to a maximum of 2+. When you get around to doing Space Wolves, I would recommend making even a minor note of this, since their legion-specific Troops choices have the sub-type in question.
Was wondering if anyone could clear this up for me? I was flicking through Liber Hereticus and noticed that only 2 out of the 9 Primarchs have the bulky(6) special rule. Is this an oversight and misprint or are there other rules for the 7 without the bulky(6) rule that I am missing? Fulgrim and Mortarion both have it, the rest do not.
Models with the Primarch Unit type have Bulky (4), which is in the Primarch unit type on p196 of the Age of Darkness Rulebook. Which is a deeply weird place to put all the Primarch special rules.
Hey there, Absolutely love the channel, your in depth discussions are really helpful for someone who is new to the game and has a AoD box sitting in front of him that leaves me thinking... how the hell am I going to load out these tactical marines, then getting confused and it not happening! I'm finding that the hardest decision right now, do I want tactical squads or just all terror squads or a mix for balanced fluffy army. Leaning into one thing seems a little, well unfluffy and boring to me. Cant wait to see what you write for the night lords! Top quality content, keep up the great work Kind regards Marcus
@@blackbriargaming5483 yh because from what I've seen you can't just use the age off darkness box you need to swap some bits over any tips like what to use
thanks for the video. Did help me in choosing the way i want to build my first boxset....and because i have a second one too..when will you release the video about the Ultramarines XD ?
I'm buying stuff to build an SoH force but am trying to keep it 99% plastic, as I don't want the resin hassle. It's a little frustrating that all the good melee units are either unavailable or resin at the moment. 😵💫 (Been watching lots of your videos recently, keep the good stuff coming!)
I know what you mean. 3D printing is a Heresy player's best friend and will solve a LOT of your problems. Getting one between a few mates is a great way to do it. Or finding a local who has one and can do some prints for you.
So it's certainly not to be ramming! Much better to go with numerous cheap vehicles for that. If I were going to include a Kratos in a SoH army I'd kit it out to bust other heavy tanks. Either the battlecannon for flexibility or the big melta weapon, though it does mean you're then encouraged to move your Kratos within 18" of the enemy's line...
@@blackbriargaming5483 That's probably a good idea. My wife is running Fists and has a Spartan and a Kratos that I'll have to worry about. I'm thinking maybe the melta cannon plus a pintle multi-melta, but keep the 4x heavy bolters for suppressing her legionaries. Sort of a multi-role loadout.
@@aaronsomerville2124 defensive weapons are always handy on a vehicle for both splitting fire and enabling reactions. Four heavy bolters can do work too!
Black reaving isn't particular to traitors so you're good to go. Loken is pretty much an auto include in a loyalist army, cause funsies. And I'd probably skip any psychic shenanigans. Maybe less spikes. Most focus on traditional Legion units 😊
There's plenty of ways to play Luna Wolves (Loyalist Sons of Horus), just lacking access to the Long March Rite of War and the Traitor-only characters and warlord traits. You don't even have to go with Black Reaving as your primary detachment's Rite of War - I for one will be doing a Legion Recon Company with mine.
Issue is you then would have to put him in an expensive transport as, in that RoW, I don't think terminators can start on the battlefield without one. Meanwhile you can't outflank him. So while it does make sense normally. Potentially not in this RoW.
@@blackbriargaming5483 At first glance, especially to people who do not play SoH, they may seem good.... But they are tragic. Totally unsuitable for this edition. Virtually zero synergy between troops. The strongest units, are ... ultra slow. Reavers have lost JetPacks, Terminators are very expensive and designed for short-range combat.... but still incredibly slow. One could say "OK! But transports!" ... well, and here the list of failures continues. Transports have never been as bad as they are today. They are very expensive in points and, if destroyed, hit with a fatal force of 8 for expensive models with T4 W2. To make matters worse, the Dreadclaw lost the assault vehicle rule! Virtually every hero is worse than it was, and is more expensive in points. And then there's the primarch... Horus, costs a lot of points. And his improved version is 1000 points, in one slow model, which we can easily avoid. Anything we put out for 1000 points will have a greater impact on the game. In short, it's a very slow army for close combat, with very expensive units that make it even more difficult to take advantage of the Legion rules (because you have few troops on the table) and at the very end we have reactions, a new rule in HH2.0 that very effectively disables deathstar play. There is no single reason to play SoH, of course outside "I love this army" and fluff. To be honest, I've already sold mine.
@@AirsoftAddicted I disagree and here's why: Reavers do have jump packs if you get Reaver Aggressors (which do become troops and line in the RoW). SoH were always a short range firepower/close assault army and Multi-Meltas and BS5 of Justaerin as well as Precision shots on Reavers is quite deadly. Deep Striking with Jump or Teleport solves the mobility issue. Telepathy and Apothecaries secure it. Agree on the Transports but Drop Pod assault ist still viable (not for melee units unless Charybdis) Heroes are optional anyway and Abaddon got better. Shame about Horus' claw though. Primarchs are played because they are awesome not because they are points efficient. Shame that you sold yours but I'm sure you can buy plenty of Imperial Fists with that money.
@@OzymandiasRex I don't feel bad for leaving weak Legion with such poor written rules that theirs Merciless Fighters is fully on mercy of your opponent. He can turn it off when he wants. Reavers and Justaerin points costs is just insane. In addition, reavers are situational at best.
Anxiously awaiting your Dark Angels edition of this series because I'm new and I have no f*in idea what I'm doing
Ha ha, it'll be a while! To begin with, you can't go wrong with the boxed set. Kit them all out with what you think looks cool. By the time that's painted up, I'll have the Dark Angels covered :D
One unique unit of theirs that works really well is the Inner Circle Knights Cenobium. They are meant to get real close but if they do then they will wreck most units.
@@blackbriargaming5483 We're still waiting on it 😅Hopefully you revisit this series when you have the time; we miss your heresy videos, they are the best! :)
Errata Update:
1. The Master of Signals can now declare at the start of each turn if the disruptor is turned on or off.
2. Reaver Aggressors now confirmed to become Troops and gain the Line subtype in Black Reaving Right of War.
Sadly only Abaddon or Warmongers can Teleport in with Justaerin as Deep Strike does not carry over to attached characters. Also, Reavers still can't take Bolters or Volkite Chargers like in 1.0 but +1 W and Chainaxes for free is an acceptable trade-off IMO.
My sons of Horus are gunna lean so heavily into the black reaving I think love the idea of the way they are presented in the books as a speartip of gang raised brutalists going straight for a decapitation strike
Definitely! And just hordes of infantry spilling across a world as they tear it apart.
Thanks for the detailed rundown! I'm new to HH, leaning a bit fluffy with SoH allied with EC, but trying to build something fairly functional too, so info like this is really useful.
Very welcome! I'm building an EC army too! What's your plan so far??
I was thinking of trying to get the most out of the AoD box and one 10 man mk3 box and some other bitz I have using some conversion, so my starter 2000 list is:
SoH- axe Praetor, 20 man tac squad with chainsaw bayos, 5 man recon with nemesis, spartan carrying 10 man cataphractii with power fists (2 with chainfists, one the sergeant), Dread with melta.
EC - sword prateor, 10 man tac squad with chainsaw bayos, 5 man elite squad with power swords.
Sounds solid! Remember that if you make SoH the Allied Detachment, you can give them a Dark Emissary and make them all stubborn. So that might be the better way to go?? I'd also be careful with running a five strong squad without a transport or other sneaky mode of delivery/protection. They'll disappear pretty quick.
Yeah I think maybe at first convenience I should swap the Praetor for a dark emissary or champion and a rhino 😅
Didn't realize how good the reivers were, definitely gonna run some reivers but I also love my terminators, good thing I already got the box like 80% painted lol
Good effort!!!
one critique I have for you, its a small one at that but: You should include a finish list as an example at the end of the video. It would help for me at least! : )
Hey there! I just saw this so missed the opportunity for the Blood Angels. But I'll make sure I put one in for the next Legion Build :)
The trouble with SoH, is it really feels like the cost of Justaerin, Reavers, and Abaddon had the Legion Trait and one of their RoW baked into their cost, unlike many other legions. They are straight up worse compared to most other legion equivalents, which is BIG sad.
it was a toss between these and Prospero boys, thanks for the review!
Both are great!! Thanks!
This is by far the best explanation of tactics and legion strength and weaknesses I have seen on youtube. Please keep it going!
Thank you! Really glad I'm hitting the mark 😁
Good analysis Charles, looking forward to getting some spikey bois back on the table. I particularly like the idea of a 'sacrificial' unit to get into combat before allowing reavers to get a rage buff.
Thanks! Can't wait to see 'em!
And reavers with jump packs are back! They got released in the pdf yesterday - they would get up the field much quicker
@@keepanator i just don't know how i feel about that PDF hey 😅 I'm collecting my thoughts before addressing it. But I'm honestly tempted not to consider it in any of my analysis. It's kind of a mess 😬
@@blackbriargaming5483 yeah reading thru it now - there are some glaring errors in there, and some very undercosted units! It is a hot mess indeed
Love your channel and the production quality is great
Thanks!! Nothing fancy but hopefully nice to watch and listen to 😊
For the extra joint for the contemptor there is an alternative, blue stuff and milliput if the 3d printing is not easy to arrange.
Exactly the video is was looking for. What to do with the age of darkness box.
More more more horus heresy video please
Can do! 😁
Great video and very useful. Guess I need some Reavers...
Thanks! Yeah. Reavers are definitely a thing if you're going to SoH!
Thunder hammers have Brutal (2) so are still pretty nasty against SoH even without the Instant Death
They sure are, though EXPENSIVE on your terminators! Rightfully so I suppose.
On the topic of Banestrike, only Independent Characters, Seekers, and Veterans can take Banestrike Bolters as an upgrade (I know that Justaerin Terminators have them as default), and to be quite frank you're better off leaving the Banestrike off of the Seekers despite it being a free upgrade for them if you so choose - their default Kraken Bolters are both more versatile and Scorpius Rounds in particular are almost twice as likely to score Breaching shots as Banestrike could on a per shot basis. They're a definite must-have on Veterans though at 2pts/model (this doesn't translate over to Command Squads, by the way).
As for my own personal build for a future Luna Wolves army (I will be going Loyalist with them), I'm actually eschewing the Heavy sub-type altogether, instead dedicating them to taking the Recon Company Rite of War instead of the Legion-specific ones. Just for troops alone, that will account for two 5-man Recon Squads (compulsory) with nemesis bolters, two 20-man despoiler squads, and at least one Seeker squad with chain bayonets, ultimately meaning that I can potentially have up to 4 Troops units, of which two are Line Infantry, infiltrating onto objectives and/or setting up to pin and disrupt enemy infantry units. Padding that out further, while a Reaver Squad, Vigilator, and maybe a Librarian or Pathfinder will be in order, I intend on padding out the bulk of its vehicle compliment in Sabre Strike Tanks and Sicarans (with one being an Arcus for token anti-air), and maybe a land speeder squadron for spotlight support (With Night Fighting being a sure thing on a 2+ at the start of the game, spotlights on a cheap unit are incredibly useful).
Sounds fantastic! Great idea for using land speeders as search lights fodder! Didn't even pick that up yet. Agreed on Seeker ammunition. Banestrike is a trap.
What's your hot tip for kitting out your sabres??
@@blackbriargaming5483 I should rescind my earlier comment about land speeders and searchlights - They can't take them in 2.0. Still, I would recommend slapping a searchlight on at least some vehicles that can take them. Recommended priority for such would be aiming for one vehicle in each squadron you take, if not on rhinos.
Likewise about taking despoiler squads in a Recon Company Rite of War, even with a Legion that favours close combat like Sons of Horus. While it's tempting to try to take full advantage of the Legion special rules, oftentimes you're better off simply using the special rules as another tool in the box, especially when a Rite of War is involved. My Salamanders had this same issue in 1.0 where, while they technically had the benefit of taking flamers with +1 strength, were more in a position to benefit from the Covenant of Fire's Master-Crafted Melta weapons and vehicle 5+FNP. It didn't preclude me from including at least one flamer support squad, but that was about all I could invest into the offensive aspect of their Legion rules at the time.
The same follows for a Sons of Horus Recon Company, in which the need to have units outside of your deployment zone if you intend on having any fun units on the table first turn is more important than amassing multiple 20-man assault blobs.
With that in mind, there's nothing stopping you from giving bayonets and melta bombs to 10-man recon squads as low-threat units that can punch above their weight. You'll be able to get your Legion benefit that way.
This is a lot to take in, especially for a new player. I feel like it would help if there were more notes of what you say in the video on screen, as it is just so much helpful information. I guess I will have to watch it again and take my own notes.
I just started collecting Sons of Horus, and I heard they are a bit weaker than most other legions.. I haven't got any experience though, so I don't know. But i've heard this from multiple experienced players/channels so far. I kind of want a fluffy army with cool units that I like, but losing always isn't fun, so I guess I'll have to do a middle ground somewhat.
i’m deciding between this set and the battle group
Just getting back into the hobby. Love your channel.
Thanks! 😁
On my Sargent can I take a power fist and a combi bolter? Or can I only use a pistol with a power fist? Having some confusion on legal Sargent loadouts and what I can put on my model. Thanks
Do you mean on tactical squads? In that case he adds the power fist to his gear but has to exchange his standard bolter for a combi-bolter.
If you mean Reavers then the only restriction is that the Chieftain is the only one who can take artificer armour and a melta bomb but can't take one of the weapons which can be bought for Reavers only (like a meltagun). Otherwise he can do everything the squad can. Also, there is no option to take combi-bolters for Reavers anymore in 2.0
concerning black reaving, when it comes to the fast attack option in a force that already has reavers, would taking seeker squads be unnecessary or overkill? i'm still at the building stage and want to have a small but functional force around this rite of war so i know what to properly invest in.
Reavers are elite choices (troops with RoW) so you still need those fast attack units
@@OzymandiasRex Ah yeah thanks!
I recommend, if you have the HQ slots, get a cheiftan squad, and slap the MoS into the group, give the cheiftains lances, and the MoS a shotgun. It dose wonders
highly anticipating your world eaters video!!!
Me too!
Maybe I'm missing something, but are Carsoran axes kinda naff? Can't see why I'd take them over other power weapons. Also with the new Legacies PDF we can take Reavers with jump packs again. Though they are a separate unit so RoW and such won't apply to them. Maybe that will be errata'd? Either way it seems like a better way to run them unless you are going heavy into Black Reaving.
So the axes have specialist weapon, which could be useful for kitting our a character for flexibility (with a power fist) while still getting the +1 attack. Breaching also goes to AP2. So you've potentially got a weapon hitting at initiative, but also at AP2 33% of the time, which is considered quite powerful in Heresy.
In regards to the PDF. Not sure how I feel about it yet. It's a bit of a mess. Will have to do a video and stance on it at some point soon.
@@blackbriargaming5483 I hadn't considered the powerfist combo, even though I'm doing a similar thing on one of my HQ lads with a fist and paragon blade (purely for Space Crusade nostalgia admittedly). I'd been comparing them to power swords, but double checking that, I was going off my memory of rending from like, 4th edition? Where it was on to hit rolls not to wound. The axes compare pretty favourably if you actually read the rules it seems lol. Thanks.
The PDF is definitely messy, and some unit's statlines just make no sense. Still, it's better than nothing I feel.
While the legion RoW are very flavorful. Im thinking of a Pride of the Legion build. Its lets u take custom vet tacticals to sort out your shooting or melee needs. Then it also lets u take the named terminators as troops. Its a win win imo.
I’m looking at building around drop pods, not really sure how to do it but that is the plan.
Drop pod assault is hurting in HH2.0. As you have to drop first turn, you don't really have an opportunity to prep the battlefield with some pinning or sniper or augury scanners first. My advice would be to make sure you're bringing TOUGH units down onto the table that can take some shooting before stepping out of their drop pods. This is very much a fluffy list in this edition, made for fun that'll struggle on the table against anything too tough. But definitely still fun! My plan is to do a build video for all the core RoW in the future too :D
Great video, keep up the good work! Could you do a Death Guard Legion video next? I would highly apreciate it!
Almost! Going reverse order 😊
Where can i find the list ? I'm not that goot in english and it would be easier if i could read it. I've been on your FB but i didn't find it, thank you !!
What would be the best legions to build using the Age Of Darkness box?
Hey will you be doing a space wolves video? Much appreciated if you do this!
Sure will! Going reverse order so a bit to wait I'm afraid.
@@blackbriargaming5483 fantastic new that’s perfect gives me time to whittle down my pile of shame haha! Thanks for the awesome videos.
Can't wait for the Iron warriors video of this series!
We'll get there eventually 😁 In the meantime, lots of bolters, predators and vinducators. Artillery, outside of quad launchers, seems like a trap. AP4 pie plates are going to disappoint every time.
Looking forward to the Thousand sons build.
Coming soon! Working on it now :D
Interested in taking up the sons of the Arch - Traitor himself, and wondering if its worth buying 2 sets of justaerin upgrades to turn the cataphractii in the AoD box into some Cheap justaerin, buying the mk IV head upgrader ( i find them better than the new ones )as well getting the SoH cataphractii praetor to lead the force as i will likely sell off the existing praetors to my friends - either way, excellent video!
You can never go wrong with more justaerin 😁
Hi, loved the video! Where did you find that abaddon confers deepstrike to a unit? To my knowledge he doesn't
You are 100% correct! Just had another look. He confers FnP to a unit when they deepstrike but not deepstrike itself. My bad! He, however, does have deep strike.
@@blackbriargaming5483 yes and if you take justaerin as a retinue, they do get deepstrike due to Abaddon as well!
You seem to be going in reverse order through the legions so I guess I'm going to be waiting a while to see what you think of Emperor's Children!
SO many requests for these amazing deviates, I wonder how much trouble I'd get in if I did a sneaky EC video before it was their turn 😅
@@blackbriargaming5483 Wouldn't bother me any! I split the box with a friend so my next purchases are front in my mind atm
Thankyou for the analysis and sample lists. What do you think about seekers with banestrike bolters? I'm kinda tempted, because it's a thing they can have that others can't, but the sniper rifles just seem better?
Nemesis bolters are 100% better. Seekers and Recon Marines are going to be popular. I even think the Seeker's regular ammunition is better than Banesteike too 😅
Banestrike overall really isn't worth it on Seekers. There is a significant difference between 10 Scorpius shots dealing (average) 4-5 breaching shots at 24" and 20 Banestrike shots dealing 2 breaching shots in a 9" rapid fire range, which is much more in the favour of the Seekers' default Kraken Bolters by a long shot.
Really, the units to slap it on are your melee-centric veterans.
As for Nemesis bolters, while you can give them to your Seekers, it'll be more efficient of you to load up a Recon squad with them instead and employ them as proper snipers with the Skirmish sub-type (+1 to cover saves while in terrain) and shroud bombs (counts as being 6" further away when being shot at). Recon are also a cheap way of running melta bombs as a tank-hunter unit.
@@liammorgan1413 i could not for the life of me find what the skirmisher sub-type did! Where is this?? 😅
@@blackbriargaming5483 Legiones Astartes Unit Types (LA/LH pg95):
A unit that contains only models with the Skirmish sub-type has a unit coherency range of 3" instead of 2", and increases all Cover Saves granted by terrain features by 1 to a maximum of 2+.
When you get around to doing Space Wolves, I would recommend making even a minor note of this, since their legion-specific Troops choices have the sub-type in question.
@@liammorgan1413yeah for sure!
Was wondering if anyone could clear this up for me? I was flicking through Liber Hereticus and noticed that only 2 out of the 9 Primarchs have the bulky(6) special rule. Is this an oversight and misprint or are there other rules for the 7 without the bulky(6) rule that I am missing? Fulgrim and Mortarion both have it, the rest do not.
Models with the Primarch Unit type have Bulky (4), which is in the Primarch unit type on p196 of the Age of Darkness Rulebook. Which is a deeply weird place to put all the Primarch special rules.
@@rorythomas9469 thanks, it’s a little annoying that these rules are split between the books and not in one place.
@@georgethearle7612 There are some very odd decisions about what went in the rulebook and what went in the army books
Can you do a black shield
Can you make a how to build a legion for space wolve?
Sure can! Only a couple more to go until we're at the VIth!
Hey there,
Absolutely love the channel, your in depth discussions are really helpful for someone who is new to the game and has a AoD box sitting in front of him that leaves me thinking... how the hell am I going to load out these tactical marines, then getting confused and it not happening!
I'm finding that the hardest decision right now, do I want tactical squads or just all terror squads or a mix for balanced fluffy army. Leaning into one thing seems a little, well unfluffy and boring to me.
Cant wait to see what you write for the night lords! Top quality content, keep up the great work
Kind regards
Marcus
The best advice of all, is to build and paint what you think is cool. Then, no matter how you do on the table, you're always winning 😊
Will you be doing a space wolves one off these I'm new to hh and think this would really help
Yep! But going in reverse order. So it's going to be a bit of a wait!
@@blackbriargaming5483 oh man will have to wait then any advice for a noob why I wait its the conversions that confuse me
@@masterballuk6780 as in converting miniatures into Space Wolves units using FW bits??
@@blackbriargaming5483 yh because from what I've seen you can't just use the age off darkness box you need to swap some bits over any tips like what to use
thanks for the video. Did help me in choosing the way i want to build my first boxset....and because i have a second one too..when will you release the video about the Ultramarines XD ?
Not long to go! 16th, 15th, 14th... then 13th! 😁
Mate, these are great. Got yourself a subscribe! Are you planning on doing all the legions? If so, really looking forward to the thousand sons one :)
Sure am! They're a bit of work so will take time, but luckily 15th is next!!
I'm new to the game. Is there a minimum number of units that you have to have to form a unit?
I'm buying stuff to build an SoH force but am trying to keep it 99% plastic, as I don't want the resin hassle. It's a little frustrating that all the good melee units are either unavailable or resin at the moment. 😵💫 (Been watching lots of your videos recently, keep the good stuff coming!)
I know what you mean. 3D printing is a Heresy player's best friend and will solve a LOT of your problems. Getting one between a few mates is a great way to do it. Or finding a local who has one and can do some prints for you.
@@blackbriargaming5483 Yeah, you're not wrong. I need more spikes to put on my smooth boys, haha!
Dumb question, but what's the line sub type do? I don't have the rules yet but I'm already building my army.
Units with the Line sub-type are your scoring units in games with objectives.
Do you play solo?
Does Rage (2 ) only means one extra attack over what you normaly get? Because if I remember correctly black reaving gives you Rage 2.
Yep! Just means 2 attacks for charging instead of 1.
When is the Emperor’s Children video coming?
Not for some time 😔 Going reverse order.
@@blackbriargaming5483 :(
What do you think is the best role for the Kratos tank in a Sons of Horus force?
So it's certainly not to be ramming! Much better to go with numerous cheap vehicles for that. If I were going to include a Kratos in a SoH army I'd kit it out to bust other heavy tanks. Either the battlecannon for flexibility or the big melta weapon, though it does mean you're then encouraged to move your Kratos within 18" of the enemy's line...
@@blackbriargaming5483 That's probably a good idea. My wife is running Fists and has a Spartan and a Kratos that I'll have to worry about. I'm thinking maybe the melta cannon plus a pintle multi-melta, but keep the 4x heavy bolters for suppressing her legionaries. Sort of a multi-role loadout.
@@aaronsomerville2124 defensive weapons are always handy on a vehicle for both splitting fire and enabling reactions. Four heavy bolters can do work too!
But what if you wanted to go Loyalists instead of Traitor Sons of Horus?
Black reaving isn't particular to traitors so you're good to go. Loken is pretty much an auto include in a loyalist army, cause funsies. And I'd probably skip any psychic shenanigans. Maybe less spikes. Most focus on traditional Legion units 😊
There's plenty of ways to play Luna Wolves (Loyalist Sons of Horus), just lacking access to the Long March Rite of War and the Traitor-only characters and warlord traits. You don't even have to go with Black Reaving as your primary detachment's Rite of War - I for one will be doing a Legion Recon Company with mine.
You get to use the best colour scheme ever! (and you'll need 3d-printed shoulder pads ;-)
Because maloghurst can't run I'd put him with some terminators
Issue is you then would have to put him in an expensive transport as, in that RoW, I don't think terminators can start on the battlefield without one. Meanwhile you can't outflank him. So while it does make sense normally. Potentially not in this RoW.
Death Guard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Getting close!!!
☀️ ᵖʳᵒᵐᵒˢᵐ
Pro tip - there is no point of playing Sons of Horus in HH 2.0.
They are just garbage.
Ha ha. I put them quite low on my tier list and a lot of people were outraged 😅
@@blackbriargaming5483 At first glance, especially to people who do not play SoH, they may seem good.... But they are tragic. Totally unsuitable for this edition. Virtually zero synergy between troops. The strongest units, are ... ultra slow. Reavers have lost JetPacks, Terminators are very expensive and designed for short-range combat.... but still incredibly slow. One could say "OK! But transports!" ... well, and here the list of failures continues. Transports have never been as bad as they are today. They are very expensive in points and, if destroyed, hit with a fatal force of 8 for expensive models with T4 W2. To make matters worse, the Dreadclaw lost the assault vehicle rule! Virtually every hero is worse than it was, and is more expensive in points. And then there's the primarch... Horus, costs a lot of points. And his improved version is 1000 points, in one slow model, which we can easily avoid. Anything we put out for 1000 points will have a greater impact on the game. In short, it's a very slow army for close combat, with very expensive units that make it even more difficult to take advantage of the Legion rules (because you have few troops on the table) and at the very end we have reactions, a new rule in HH2.0 that very effectively disables deathstar play.
There is no single reason to play SoH, of course outside "I love this army" and fluff. To be honest, I've already sold mine.
@@AirsoftAddicted I disagree and here's why:
Reavers do have jump packs if you get Reaver Aggressors (which do become troops and line in the RoW).
SoH were always a short range firepower/close assault army and Multi-Meltas and BS5 of Justaerin as well as Precision shots on Reavers is quite deadly.
Deep Striking with Jump or Teleport solves the mobility issue. Telepathy and Apothecaries secure it.
Agree on the Transports but Drop Pod assault ist still viable (not for melee units unless Charybdis)
Heroes are optional anyway and Abaddon got better. Shame about Horus' claw though.
Primarchs are played because they are awesome not because they are points efficient.
Shame that you sold yours but I'm sure you can buy plenty of Imperial Fists with that money.
@@OzymandiasRex I don't feel bad for leaving weak Legion with such poor written rules that theirs Merciless Fighters is fully on mercy of your opponent. He can turn it off when he wants.
Reavers and Justaerin points costs is just insane. In addition, reavers are situational at best.