Horus Heresy: Best Generic Legion Consuls (and why it’s not the Master of Signals)

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  • Опубліковано 29 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 99

  • @pansch10
    @pansch10 2 роки тому +33

    As a new heresy player your videos have been absolutely invaluable! They've really helped with my understanding of heresy rules, units and how to put together a fun army list. Keep up the great work!

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +4

      Thank you!! What a lovely comment! Comments like this keep me going :)

    • @pansch10
      @pansch10 2 роки тому +1

      @@blackbriargaming5483 You're very welcome! Afterall I'm definitely hyped for Heresy!

  • @yuliydubovyk3080
    @yuliydubovyk3080 2 роки тому +14

    Amazing video, love it!
    Wish you would get more immediate engagement from US-based audiences, but alas there is a time difference so just wait 8 hours.
    Huge fan, thank you for your work!!!

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Thank you!! You're very welcome! And lol, they get there eventually.

  • @richardgreathead5735
    @richardgreathead5735 2 роки тому +4

    Thanks for helping someone who gets overwhelmed by walls of rulebook text get their head around what they want an army to do

  • @_the_eversor_lad_
    @_the_eversor_lad_ Рік тому +2

    The Moritat is my favourite. I really like the concept of it and they are a potentially very strong unit. High risk, high reward. Also it's funny because at times the Moritat just blows himself up and does nothing lol.

  • @Donkas
    @Donkas 2 роки тому +3

    I'm new to this game, I love these lectures

  • @jw7500
    @jw7500 2 роки тому +6

    Good choices here, but with the Chaplain I want to also shout-out the White Scars Golden Keshig for a good fit. The Keshig go from a pretty good, but finesse unit to an almost guaranteed Contemptor delete button. S10 AP1 Brutal 3 lance weapon at Initiative 8! from WS5 with full rerolls to hit. This even goes through super heavies with ease.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      My only concern is that I don't know if we've got a firm agreement from the community (and certainly nothing from GW...) whether the Hold Fast reaction turns off the Golden Keshig's lances. What's your thoughts?

    • @jw7500
      @jw7500 2 роки тому +1

      @@blackbriargaming5483 As far as I read it, you get the lance attack 100% of the time as it's wargear and not a charge bonus (so you attack at initiative 4 regardless). But if you want to guarantee that initiative 8, you use a telepathy libby. And let's be honest, you are bringing one of those anyway. But yes, this is something GW should have had FAQ'd during the last round.

  • @elijah260
    @elijah260 Рік тому +2

    I do agree with your list, a little iffy on the Herald imo, but at certain LGS's, the MoS is invaluable. In general, this is a good list for best generic consuls, but when the people you play with are Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Raven Guard, you need a MoS as it's so important to disrupt deep striking Dark Furies going into your backline. MoS is a fantastic generic consul in the right situations. Discrediting it entirely would be a diservice to the model and its capabilities. Otherwise I can agree with the list generally.

  • @dariostabletopminatures
    @dariostabletopminatures 22 дні тому

    16:27 Chaplain, Emperors Children...Mass Infantry! Check!

  • @Blazetwoe
    @Blazetwoe 2 роки тому +3

    Great video, confirms some of my thoughts on the consuls. I have all of hese in my lists bar the herald... That Line buff is a must so gonna look into that for my exiled XIX force of Dust Clad. I do think the Siege Breaker, where as not the best, is underrated. Giving a unit within 6" Sunder can be ideal in the right legion. Imperial fists using Autocannons, hitting on 2s with Rending and Sunder allows them to punch against almost all targets very effectively. On Iron Warriors, that Sunder USR is going to push those S8 Autocannons and S9 missile launcher well above their expected range. Any heavy weapon squad with missile launchers become a reliable AA unit when paired with sunder. You can sit these guys in the backfield with telekine dome for that 4++ and they will be a constant thorn in your opponents side.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +2

      So the reason I didn't include the Siege Breaker (besides phosphex apathy which I described above), and it was a close call, was that I'm not finding I need more help destroying tanks in this edition. Lascannons are my go to and they already have sunder. Multimeltas are great and already have armour bane. There's also great Ordnance options out there already rolling two dice. You are correct, that IF and IW Autocannons do great work and would definitely benefit from a Siege Breaker. But outside of those examples, I'd leave him at home. In a flyer meta, a Siege Breaker with a missile squad is also a great option, yeah.

  • @jcshields27
    @jcshields27 Рік тому +2

    The character gorgon upgrade removes the limit of cataphractari armor so they can do a sweeping advance. The Gorgon unit also get more special weapons 1 per 3. Nice extra grav shots.

  • @Thillidan
    @Thillidan 2 роки тому +1

    Really awesome vids for newer players!
    Loving your content a lot. Helping my mates and I get into Horus Heresy, and just genuinely good presentation and slides.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      Thank you! I like to keep it simple and straightforward. Keen to get into some 'How to Play' vids soon.

  • @AubLambe
    @AubLambe 2 роки тому

    I just picked up the preator consul duo kit. Thanks for the ideas!

  • @TheoLeggett-g9z
    @TheoLeggett-g9z Рік тому

    Who did the Mike Mignola looking art work? It's really cool and I've never seen it before.

  • @warpaintjj
    @warpaintjj 2 роки тому +1

    This opened my eyes to how these work. At my age I can read a rule many times & just not get it…

  • @tudorguti1309
    @tudorguti1309 2 роки тому +1

    Speaking of playing Alpha Legion, this video really gave me some new ideas on how to make a better list. Specifically, one which doesn't include any sort of Master of the Legion, because, lets be real now, none of the rites of war really benefited us in the first place. I always included Dynat in my lists because I thought his warlord trait was a must. But, after some games where the trait didn't really do anything for me, and after watching this vid, it made me realize how much characters who could offer me passive abilities overshadow the one-time-buff/beatstick Praetors.
    I was thinking of running a normal Chaplain and Telepathy Librarian, plus a Cataphractii Medicae.
    The Medicae would really benefit a squad of Lernaeans, especially with the FNP + rerollable It Will Not Die, making them a pain to kill (though this could get foiled by Instant Death attacks). Also, as a side note, the conversion beam would be really nice to have on the termies for the sole purpose of absolutely crippling the unit you want to charge (Blind giving the enemy WS and BS 1, even with a 33% chance of it working most of the time, is really something which could potentially turn the tide of the battle and certainly a good use of 15 points). A certified troll weapon for a certified troll faction.
    The Telepath, as you mentioned, would be really good to have for pinning and denying reactions. Another troll to add to the troll army.
    And finally, and probably the single most unholy model in my army, the Warlord Chaplain with the Hydran Excursor trait. This dude, this lad, THIS CHAD, can make an already bonkers unit of your choice into one of the filthiest death star units known to man. AL has access to 17 legions worth of op units to choose from and the fact we can boost them further than even their own legions can just seems ridiculous to me, yet so, so sweet.
    My personal choice is a ten man squad of Suzerains (Ultras' unit) fitted with hammers. Place this baby in a Land Raider alongside the Chaplain and an Apothecary and watch it delete anything and everything you throw it at. Each Suzerain has 3 attacks and, if given a hammer and a claw, the Chaplain will have 4 hammer attacks base. That's 45 hammer attacks on the charge, hitting most things you'd wanna throw it at on a 3+ with rerolls!
    I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the astartes lists short of the Mastodon that can withstand this... not even a Primarch with a dedicated retinue!
    Also, we shouldn't forget our "get out of jail free" card (or "GET OVER HERE" move, depending on what you're trying to accomplish), like I have unfortunately forgotten over and over again :))
    Smoke and Mirrors can get your death star either out of the way of nasty fire or closer to units you'd like to not be there next turn, and I really ought to remember it when going to matches. It also works on vehicles, in case the Raider gets immobilized :D
    Now, I've yet to try anything I've said here, but, on paper, this all seems really, really juicy!

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      I think you'll find you don't need to go all hammers on the Suzerain to make them work. But yeah an AL Chaplain with the +1 Warlord Trait is just nuts. I LOVE Smoke and Mirrors for moving 12" up the table. People just don't expect you to use it like that. I do it with my Gal Vorbak and it's just rude.

    • @CyberDagger003
      @CyberDagger003 2 роки тому

      I'd wager it might be worth it to give the Chaplain a boarding shield instead of the claw so the unit keeps the benefits of the Heavy trait. That should be worth more than one attack. The hammer's already master-crafted anyway.
      Also, by the way, what unit are you planning on running with your Librarian?

  • @zachhayward5142
    @zachhayward5142 2 роки тому +1

    I have a Word Bearers Moritat and it is actually quite obscene. Two warpfire pistols will absolutely mulch (and potentially pin) infantry and can even glance light armor to death. It is absolutely worth paying 10 pts to upgrade both plasma pistols to warpfire pistols, as you'll still be wounding on 2s with S6 and have breaching +4, but remove gets hot and therefore do not have to stop rolling on a 1 and will not injure yourself. Extremely dangerous option for any fellow word bearers players out there!

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Love it! Can't believe I missed this spicy pick.

    • @marcialhd
      @marcialhd 11 місяців тому

      ⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@blackbriargaming5483what about the Thousand Sons Moritat with Aether-Fire Pistols? I mean they lose the “Gets Hot” rule plasma weapons have meaning that it is safer to wield on average, they get “Rending 6+” and “Achean Force” (which makes it also get a +2 to the Strength of all attacks during that phase after succeeding a Psychic check) and are considered both “Plasma” and “Force” for all rules that affect those weapons, that seems good enough to consider.

  • @dariostabletopbastelecke4846
    @dariostabletopbastelecke4846 22 дні тому

    6:37 I am gonna Build one and Field it NEXT TIME! MORITAT!

  • @paulbradley3830
    @paulbradley3830 2 роки тому

    Heard you in eye of Horus podcast and thought I’d check you out

  • @lukelloyd8976
    @lukelloyd8976 Рік тому +2

    Ok, so if someone turns up with a Cypher model as a Dark Angels Moritat: is the form to high-five them _before_ or _after_ the match?

  • @andrewvallance8004
    @andrewvallance8004 2 роки тому

    My Vigilator loves all your choices from 72” away ❤

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      Ha ha. I had my Librarian sniped by couple units of Recon Marines last night. Good thing I'm building my own as well :D

  • @stephenbosko9343
    @stephenbosko9343 2 роки тому +1

    better than the herald is taking in a command sqaud retinue. more bodies, wounds, good WS armor and turns into line :)

  • @cyberdan42
    @cyberdan42 2 роки тому

    I have an interesting question; when I take a Legion Chaplin and load them into a Damocles Command Rhino. The Chaplin is Ld 10 and Stubborn. The Damocles Command Vox Relay allows friendly units within 18' or with a nuncio-vox to utilise the Ld of an embarked character (so the Chaplin) for Morale and Pinning tests. At the base level, as I read this, the result is Ld 10 for my nearby or communicator-equipped units. But in addition, the Chaplins leadership is not subject to modification for Morale or Pinning tests, so does that also apply to tests taken 'through' the Command Vox Relay - I think not because the CVR does not mean the character is "in", "part of" or "leading" (so the unit does not contain the character) the relevant testing unit. Still, I can see a good argument that Stubborn does apply. I really like the Ld 10 bonus either way, and it allows the Chaplin to serve as an excellent (and nasty) battleline reserve while directly adding grit to my forces.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      I haven't had a close read. But i'd say that the Damocles does indeed not give out stubborn or inexorable.

  • @justapilgrim4050
    @justapilgrim4050 2 роки тому

    I was convinced in 1.0 ed about the Delegatii and the new rules make him more valuable. I disagree on the Moritat and I would take the Siege Breaker instead, but maybe is because im a son of Perturabo. Great video anyway. Keep going!

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      My hobby husband (Dean) and I debated the Siege Breaker which he wanted in the top five. My reasoning is this. If you include him, you're still then paying premium points to upgrade your units to Phosphex. Phosphex is good, but with a small blast and only 24" range it doesn't overly wow me. You're only really going to get a single decent round of shooting before most opponents can deal with them. For Iron Warriors. Siege Breaker every time. For sure.

  • @thomaswalton4996
    @thomaswalton4996 12 днів тому

    Hey mate - did I hear you right, you were at Jolt Games? In Mitchell?

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  10 днів тому

      @thomaswalton4996 yeah man! That's my local 😊

    • @thomaswalton4996
      @thomaswalton4996 10 днів тому

      @blackbriargaming5483 I've been trying to teach myself how to play! (And organically came across your videos!) You mean to tell me, the person I listen to on the net to try and learn, plays IRL 5kms away?

  • @lorgor4eva
    @lorgor4eva 2 роки тому

    I’m planning on a jet pack style word bearers legion with smash praetor & argel tal. I love the model of the moritat & he’s the reason I’m going this way with assault marines, ashen circle, destroyer assault ect. Plus hellfire plasma pistols sticking him with one of the squads & raining plasma hellfire shots sounds awesome. Chaplin is another obvious choice for me so I’ll have to do some swapping about to get the best of both worlds. I’ll probably not play argel tal in every friendly game so I think that works nicer to come up with my own background on characters with praetor, chaplain & moritat 😊

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Of course! The WB plasma weapons don't have Gets Hot! Oh man. Word Bearers Moritat for the WIN. I'm actually helping a mate with a Word Bearers podcast episode tonight. Will have to bring this up!

  • @thickasmud
    @thickasmud 2 роки тому

    I've said it before but I'll say it again. Don't underestimate the Esoterist! 12 s6 (I think) shots can mess up your opponent and they can really do damage to Word Bearer's but that part is a bit niche. Slap on a jump pack and give them an archeotech pistol to have them bouncing around zapping characters.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      Ha ha, the Daemon ability is what really interests me here. But we don't know what Daemons do yet so I thought I'd hold off on this guy.

  • @andrewbakescakes9684
    @andrewbakescakes9684 2 роки тому

    No love for the Vigilator? That MC Nemesis Bolter with Shell-Shock 1 puts him ahead of Exodus I think for his cost.

  • @DMHightower
    @DMHightower 2 роки тому

    Great video!!

  • @johnondich-batson9066
    @johnondich-batson9066 2 роки тому

    As a Thousand Sons player, Hallucinations is VERY powerful. Being able to react with it as a shooting attack is also bonkers. I have had to limit myself a little bit because of what this power does.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +2

      Yeeaah. Self regulation is important. Though I feel like Thousand Sons need all the help they can get :P

    • @Appolyon
      @Appolyon Рік тому

      But reactions can't force pinning. So what use of Hallucination as reaction?

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  Рік тому +2

      @@Appolyon you are INCORRECT! They can't force morale teats. They can 100% force pinning tests 😊

    • @Appolyon
      @Appolyon Рік тому

      @@blackbriargaming5483
      I'm not sure, if you're right there. Rulebook, p. 159, right collumn, 3rd passage "Shooting attacks made as part of a Reaction do not cause Leadership Tests". If there was written "Morale Checks", then pinning would be excluded, but the wording is "Leadership Tests", which includes "Pinning".

    • @DeusExMachina10001
      @DeusExMachina10001 Рік тому

      It’s also amazing for Night Lords since he practically auto pins. A telepathy Librarian in a 20 man Despoiler squad and Curze in the army gives them over 100 attacks. It’s pretty nutty.

  • @guilliman1990
    @guilliman1990 2 роки тому

    All of these I am currently sorting out new 3d printer so doing custom hq options now

  • @spencergalland5754
    @spencergalland5754 2 роки тому

    You overlook that legion delegatus can take command squads, meaning they can take legion standards, making them even more useful than they already are

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      SO GOOD!!! Great catch!

    • @Blackhound61
      @Blackhound61 2 роки тому

      Was just thinking this. Termie delegatus and a few command squad termies, cheap cheerful line termies with WS5

    • @padanfain7466
      @padanfain7466 6 місяців тому

      The Delegatus also has an amazing once a game ability. A must have against those dirty Thousand suns pyskers pinning you.

  • @niallgeary94
    @niallgeary94 2 роки тому +1

    Now if you could just do that guide for ec...;)

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Ha ha. In the meantime, have you listened to the Eye of Horus podcast episode Warmonger? Focusing on the IIIrd??

  • @Kiickman
    @Kiickman 2 роки тому +1

    Librarian is abusrd strong. Been running Sigismund, Librarian and Templar Bretheren in Land Raider Proteus, and it's so strong. you wont get many friends with telepath tho.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Lol. Yeah. I'm going to try out some different psychic powers over my next few games to give the local group a rest.

  • @seamusloftus5291
    @seamusloftus5291 2 роки тому

    I play Raven Guard. I bring all the Nemesis Bolters, lol. No Vigilator?

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      I toyed with the Vigilator in the top five, but in the end he doesn't do anything that a squad with nemesis bolters can't also do. He's certainly a good addition to that squad to give it some more oomf, but nothing ground breaking.

  • @wochtulka
    @wochtulka Рік тому

    Im assuming a Salamanders Moritat couldnt take 2 hand flamers and make it work somehow with chain fire? New to these rules sorry for silly questions :)

  • @kitten2799
    @kitten2799 2 роки тому +1

    A champion consul is underrated imo.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      He definitely does work! Though nothing that a Praetor or a decent close combat unit can't also achieve. Killing infantry isn't something most armies struggle with.

    • @kitten2799
      @kitten2799 2 роки тому

      @@blackbriargaming5483 Very treu, but if you want something cheap, cool to make and effectivew hile spending your points on more expensive units with other purposses the champion is worth it, imo. But you're of course right that other things work a lot better.

    • @LordGrantius
      @LordGrantius 2 роки тому

      @@blackbriargaming5483 I don't see the point of the champion as killing basic infantry. The reason I run a Champion is for WS6 and Paragon blade, for going up against terminators and veterans. I'd prefer to shoot them, but failing that being able to hit on 3s and ignore armour. Sure, a Praetor does the same better, but a Praetor and a Champion do work, especially against Pride lists

  • @f2padam
    @f2padam Рік тому

    I would argue that siege breaker is better than chaplin but that's just my might be because i play death guard

  • @myrar8708
    @myrar8708 Рік тому +1

    9:55 small detail most people get wrong is the Herald does not give the Fearless special rule to his models within the unit, they will just auto-pass any Pinning tests, Regroup tests and
    Morale checks. They still are targetable for Fear and by that are targetable by special rules like Shriekers

  • @henryjones8226
    @henryjones8226 2 роки тому

    Hi there, I'm new to hearsy and have just started collecting iron warriors, is there any chance you could do an iron warrior video? Like how to start collecting

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +2

      I sure can! I'm going reverse order at the moment. And have been putting them off. Lol. Up to the 12th Legion at the moment. But the 4th aren't TOO far away! In the meantime. Tacticals. Siege Tyrants. Rapiers. You can't go wrong :D

    • @henryjones8226
      @henryjones8226 2 роки тому +1

      @@blackbriargaming5483 OK thanks for that I look forward to seeing it. Also thanks for the tip.

  • @DreyfDreyf
    @DreyfDreyf 2 роки тому

    At first glance, the inferno moritat looks exceptional... but I suspect it's totally useless with its 6" range and the target withdraw reaction.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Remember that your opponent can't do a withdraw reaction from a deepstrike... 😊

    • @DreyfDreyf
      @DreyfDreyf 2 роки тому

      @@blackbriargaming5483
      I had totally forgotten that: it changes a lot of things. He's still going to have to resist the interceptor reactions (damn augury scanners), but at least if he survives he should be able to do some damage.
      Thanks a lot.

  • @orange-qj3yd
    @orange-qj3yd 2 роки тому

    What about us death guard? we don’t really field librarians

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +1

      Luckily you've got 10 man lascannon squads that can move, shoot and be taken as Troops to make up for it :P

    • @ianjohnson4270
      @ianjohnson4270 Рік тому

      There were plenty psykers on the death guard especially the traitor side. They just hid it from mortarian

  • @michaelscheffler7358
    @michaelscheffler7358 2 роки тому

    About the Hallucinations: I think, it's even worse now as the last FAQ stated the reactions dubiously as if you reacted before the attacker himself shoots. So if you target the unit with the Telepathy librarian, you will be most likely pinned in your own turn before you got a chance to fire your weapons.

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому +2

      Not how I've read it or how we're playing it. Cause that's ridiculous. But gamers will game 😅

    • @myrar8708
      @myrar8708 Рік тому

      Not true the reaction happens after the triggering unit has shot and did rolls. Thats literally in the FAQ.

  • @PraetorPreysight
    @PraetorPreysight 2 роки тому

    I'm just here to throw abuse in the comments as promised.
    Love the foreshadowing of "I bring a Telepathy Librarian because I have no dignity" and "Hope your opponent doesn't bring too many Nemesis Bolters".

  • @Pershoreify
    @Pershoreify 2 роки тому +1

    you didn't say why it wasn't the master of signals 😆

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      ahahah, I realised I forgot that sentence after I published! The answer is, cause these are all better :P In all seriousness though. The Cognis Signum is what people are generally going to the MoS for, and I actually like it better on a Techmarine (cheaper) or Legion Armistos (also puts out damage at BS5 and has a free augury scanner). However. If you're facing a very heavy deep striking meta, which I think will evolve over time but we're not seeing much of it at the moment outside of Blood Angels, then the MoS goes up heavily in value.

    • @padanfain7466
      @padanfain7466 6 місяців тому

      @@blackbriargaming5483 I thought you had skipped MoS as it's obviously best and this was a 'top 5 of the rest'.

  • @crwarren
    @crwarren 2 роки тому

    Urgh so many arguably broken rules in a single video
    Units composed entirely of characters
    Thousand sons pyromancy spam
    Telepathy in general
    Great video but on I wish these rules would be toned back

    • @blackbriargaming5483
      @blackbriargaming5483  2 роки тому

      100%! Hopefully someone at GW is listening and they include solutions to these in Errata's and FAQs. As opposed to what we got from them a couple of weeks ago...