All Perception Require a Mythical Framework | Jordan Peterson, John Vervaeke, Jonathan Pageau
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2022
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Podcast: Deeper Yet Into The Weeds: Pageau, Vervaeke, Peterson: • Deeper Yet Into The We...
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This was a really phenomenal video for Jordan. It sort of resurrected something in me in relation to him that I haven't experienced since I first became aware of his work. He seems so comfortable here and more willing to explore ideas. This is great because he's always playing defense. He often has the same well-crafted arguments in response to constant adversarial attacks. The unfortunate thing about that is you tend to keep hearing the same arguments, the same stories, the same stock answers over and over. But this video I feel was really freeing for him. It shows how important fellowship and dia logos are for the soul. And hopefully, Jordan can rediscover and further explore within this little corner of the internet.
That's probably because he's intellectually bankrupt. These days he's more concerned with swimsuit models in between thoughts on how to construct a philosophy that fits within his authoritarian worldview.
In this increasingly upside down world I so look forward to listening to such wisdom. Thank you all. God be with you.
As John frequently says, our salience landscape is essentially tied intimately to our consciousness and attentiveness. What we give attention to and devote our cognitive resources to, is what becomes our perceptive outline for the world.
John also mentions this idea of "reciprocal narrowing" to describe addiction; the narrowing of our perception is directly proportional to how we choose to act with agency in the world. As our options increase in the world, we inevitably open up our salient landscape of perception. If we narrow our bandwidth of perception to an addiction to some behavior, our environment around us also narrows to accommodate our self deception and available options in life.
I really like John because he's grasping for the Infinite. I hope he comes to realize that the framework is God. It cannot be replicated or fully understood, and that's okay. Same goes for Jordan.
He's been burned in a similar was as Peterson. Peterson had the unfortunate luck to be raised in the United Church of Canada while John grew up around fundamentalists which has left its mark on him.
I do wonder myself as my fundamentalist family nonetheless emphasized curiosity and wonder. Enough so that I joke that some in my family really aren't fundamentalists they just keep to the label because they're so used to it.
But any god is as real as another one, they are all constructions of our cultures as far as I know.
Like Jonathan said: the tooth fairy is real, so is Santa Claus.
I can see that christianity produced the most free and prosperous society thus it seems to be the best faith (representation of a good mode of being and perception)
An argument could be made that Islam is better as it’s growing and is not disintegrating as the christian faith at the moment. I can’t see how to bridge the gap from scientific understanding to reconnecting with our tradition, but I can now see the arrogance and short sightedness of ’pure’ atheist like Sam Harris and much of the left and myself not so long ago.
The role of a mothers is so important here, we are our child’s first guide to perception. I don’t think young women understand that responsibility. Wonderful video
I get dizzy with John's invented terms, you can understand the same concepts with traditional Christian metaphysics and antropology. I respect Pageau for his patience and willingness to engage with these complicated languages to share the truth of the gospel
Great to listen to this segment again! Interpretations as recipes. Which one to choose? Depends on your skills as a cook, the availability of ingredients and instructions, the occasion for cooking, the number of people you cook for and their dietery preferences, the season (warming or cooling foods), your budget, your cooking equipments etc... finally, out of 45 recipes you end up with 1 or 2 to make. It is usually quite rewarding to think a metaphore on.
This is so cool, especially as it relates to our relationship to computation.
14:26 that’s why I like crack jokes a lot. Moderately (autocorrected to miserably lol) distract, then get to it.
God gives us eyes to see. Only through him not man. In His Church after Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit. Unless one is following this formula as did all who loved God, one is deluded after the old man.
Yet the depths of self-congratulatory complicit conceit in the world abounds. Confounding the wise in it.
God have mercy.
0:15 John has a nimbus
That was genius
This conversation (and the minds that made it) are a bit too far above of me. It makes it difficult to grasp-though I wish I could.
The very use of words or language, which we all must each adopt in childhood, is already culturally categorized of itself as an historically and culturally instituted language in which we each gain our mortal identity and accountability.
As children, however, we do not yet have a conception of the greater history and culture implied by all language; but have to intellectually build up to a grasp of it, where we often view indeed our rooting in a greater society - but not always by everyone of that even greater and anthropological bases of all human culture, wherein even language itself necessarily sociologically arises in our species alone, and thereby establishes its quite singular and universal dominion - (and so that even a child, for example, in that magical command conventionally of language, will assert him or her self imperially like a parent, over a pet animal equal to or larger than them in size).
Beliefs based on appearances ought to be believable.
I would understand better if Jordan Peterson Let them Talk without cutting them all the time.
Jordan, you have to let the others finish their points.
Peterson does not even let you finish your stating your thoughts before he jumps in and starts ranting.
He is clearly not cultivating the essential virtues of someone aspiring to metaphysical health.
All convesation is about conversation expect for Holy Scriptures and fairy tales.
Not quite true, as conversation in itself is symbolic in nature as it always points to something other than itself.
Also... holy christian tradition
Yes but my main idea is that fairytales and Eden are not symbolic. If they are they are symbols of incomprehensible things. I don’t see the value of incomprehensible symbols other than we must be children to read them correctly.
Right on!
Jonathan, why do you continue to partner with a person ( Peterson) who refuses to admit that God is not merely a fiction though he obviously is struggling to find satisfactory meaning and explanation for reality?
Peterson has said that God
Is not merely fiction many, many, times throughout his life.
It’s really his life’s work proving that.
@@KizaWittaker He has also refused to simply proclaim God as something or someone he believes in.
He is playing both sides of the fence but has committed to Evolutionary Biology not to faith in God.
@@thenowchurch6419 He just called himself a Christian a couple months ago.
@@KizaWittaker Please show your source or provide a link to that please.