This is a huge step in the right direction!! Just like B. Sully said, definitely need a wiring /setup video of converting factory fuse boxes to the PD16. I think at a minimum, lighting, starter, alternator control, wipers…basically the essential stuff…or just all of it in a multi-video series!!
You've asked for it - and here it is: A step-by-step guide to removing a fuse / relay box from your harness and re-wiring it into a PDM. (sorry about the fingernails....) Products used in this video: PD16 and Accessories: www.haltech.com/product-category/inputs-and-can-expansion-products/power-management/ Dual Crimper Set: www.haltech.com/product/ht-070300-dual-crimper-set/ Crimping tools: www.haltech.com/product-category/tuning-tools/ CAN adaptor loom: www.haltech.com/product/ht-130046-can-adaptor-loom/
Haltech have the best staff. Dave and Scotty are so freaking cool. Can you imagine how nerdy the conversation would get when hanging out with them? I'd love it!
You guys always do a great job explaining things on other channels, great to see you've got extended thorough explanations under your own banner too. Someday I'll have a car project cool enough to need an ecu and pdm, and it'll 100% be a haltech. No question.
I love the idea, but at 5 to 10 times the cost of a simple fuse-and-relay setup, I'll stick with what I can diagnose on the trail, if it ever needs to be done.
It is pricey but it actually adds some diagnostic capabilities if you have your laptop. For example, if the output was on and the current draw was zero that would indicate an open circuit. Furthermore if it was shorted you would get a DTC and you would see the overcurrent value in the software. Also no more fuses to replace.
@@autotuneengineering I'm not discounting the added benefits you mention. My concern is that when I'm off-road, I don't bring my laptop. I have a box of fuses (many different ratings) and relays that are interchangeable. A quick check and swap and I could be back on the road before my computer booted. Technology is good, but complexity is not as robust as simplicity. For me in that situation, simplicity works best for me.
@@autotuneengineering All of that depends on the problem being something other than the module itself; you have doubled the number of points of failure in each circuit and made it literally impossible to accurately diagnose. Go read a modern factory service manual, half of the component tests just say, "Replace with known good part and check operation," because the module arrangement makes it impossible to do anything else.
Here’s the thing … The difference between a porcupine and a Porsche driver? With Porsche, the pricks are on the inside.. 🤓😂🤪. I am a 964 Owner and Weekend warrior in the garage. Dropped engine. Etc.. Never touched a wiring harness. All your doo-dad’s look intriguing, however, can’t find a single thread on the World Wide Web that has replaced the standard ECU with your products or fuse box on a swap of stock street car. Not one. Our cars are 30 years old and someday it would be fun to swap the ECU and Fuse box to some CAN stuff 🥳. I am not talking strip out the stock harness and ripping out the dash. More like your products configured to use existing harness. Pie in the sky, I know. Probably a Porsche specialist would be required to make that happen. I’m talking N/A 3.6L, not intended to Turbo or Race, however, would be fun to go Wide band vs Narrow band, be able to micro manage Fuel Trim and Maps, etc.. This require somebody to do the following work; Create a conversion cable for accepting the 964 ECU wiring harness plug on one end and your input to Haltech ECU on other and of course, trying to accommodate every function Motronic does in the stock ECU. Add PDM to eliminate stock fuse box too… The other approach is to ween certain functions from Stock ECU to a 3rd party ECU running in parallel? 😳. It seems your products are targeted to folks who have gutted their vehicles down to bare interior, etc. I wonder, does Singer Conversions go with 3rd party ECU’s and PDM and CAN technologies? Keep building, we’ll keep watching. 👍
Why on Earth would you ever do this?! You can get the same functionality with just an auxiliary fuse box without sacrificing the ability to effectively troubleshoot future electrical issues.
Thank you so much for the detailed video. At first some of the extra wires made no sense to me but after watching this video, it all made sense to me. I watched this video step by step as I was cutting and splicing at the same time. That I had 3 gray/red wires but some testing narrowed down the correct one. I grounded the ECU to the battery and went one by one on the g/r wires giving them 12v until my ecu powered up
Ford did this in the late 90's ... also known as the CCRM - for constant control relay module.... they were nothing but problems and was just easier to install normal relays which were much more reliable and easier to replace when something does goes bad..... how much is your PDM? and if only one issue in the PDM doesnt work you have to replace the whole thing vs a single relay....
You really should not put two wires into a single deutsch connector cavity. The terminals aren’t rated for it( probably not a huge deal if the CMA is within range), but worse the seal will be compromised, you cannot seal a figure of eight intrusion with a round seal. Yes you said you’re going to be in an interior space so even that shouldn’t matter, but for demonstration purpose you should show the right way, using a splice somewhere else in the harness.
Love it… Can you do the same Video but with the Nexus? I can make assumptions and guessing it’s similar but simpler. Would also be good to show the injectors, coils in the video connected so we can see it full wired. Can you also include indicators and lights as I’m aware the nexus can run far more than a traditional ecu. I have a nexus waiting to go in, so this is helpful
Awesome vid. An idea for a vid is a "Complete guide to converting your car from carbies to EFI". Something like Al did to Mick's 1600, but more around what you need to do it, rather than how to do it and what happens after. Or, even better, partner with the likes of EFI Hardware and put together carb to EFI conversion kits! Happy for you to start with L series Datto motors, and will donate me car for a few months as test mule :D
Awsome video great inf it's not hard at all to do this I dealing with a honda accord the have a bad wire somewhere and including me and 3 more mechanic couldn't find it for me I think it's bette get rid of all those wire and fo something simple like that I'm gonna start saving to get this soon as possible 😀 👍
What I'd be curious to know is just how versatile the pdm would be, such as using a pdm to power general body functions of a vehicle such as lights, windows, locks, etc.
That’s what I am also curious about, PDM definitely can work all those functions with a CAN keypad but what if we want to use factory combi switches etc
This is a huge improvement… all the LS guys always want to go Holley. For me I’d love to use a Haltech system on my twin turbo G8GT. Do you have a system that still allows my BCM control over body stuff like a/c, heated seats ect? Thanks for the info I definitely prefer Haltech over Holley tuning wise.
their is no plug and play harness..but you can depin your factory ecu items you dont need..injectors, coils, etc and keep what you want ac/etc...I did it on my 08 silverado
I’ve watched this a couple of times now. I’m looking at doing this with a s3 and universal harness for a r32 gtr. Since the s3 harness is different to the premium harness what pins would I use?
This is great information, do you have any tutorials for people coming from carburettor engines moving to aftermarket ECU/ECM for different reasons ( racing/performance, restomod ,etc ), explain how to wire each sensors, triggers, ancillary, pumps .etc fusebox,etc for the more basic haltech systems ( elite 500,750,etc. For me I'm coming from a 74' Vw T2 build ( type 4/porsche 912 big bore stroker ) that has twin carbs to ECU/ECM
*** HALTECH *** Please create a dedicated PDM screen for the IC7 dash since the software only allows you to add the specific channels you want and isn't a full STUDIO package software. Include state indicators, maybe a bar graph for the current with numerical value and numerical voltage value and DTC codes and also PIN numbers and wire graphic with color code. No more laptop to view PDM info or get wiring diagram. Now that would be neat.
To clarify, the ECU gets its 'power on' power from the PD16's CAN +12V, and the rest of the CAN network (o2 sensor etc) will get its power from the ECUs CAN +12V?
When I have used nylon harness sleeve, when I cut it, it almost frayed instantly. I struggled to use it. I noticed when Dave cut the cable tie, it didn’t really come apart. So I’ve taken a look at the Haltech cable harness sleeve kit you do. Clearly there must be different kinds of nylon sleeve. As far as heat goes, are some ok for engine bays and other types not? I went wrong in using regular heat shrink as well. I now know to use the double layered 3:1 (?) heat shrink. I’m going to go back and rewatch some of Dave’s tutorials. I’m sure he covered harness labelling in one? Sorry, a bit off topic from the PDM wiring.
When crimping two wires into a single DTP, are you at all worried about the compromised weatherproofing on the cable seal? I have always believed that was a bad idea on those connectors, but I can't say I've ever tested it. Double crimping on a DTP is easier than making another splice in the harness and dealing with SCL to support the splice area.
Damn...I should of just got the elite harness and not got the pdm harness/Universal harness for the 1500....Now lets get a one adding the pdm to the elite universal :)
Does a PDM have to be used with a ECU if I just want to get rid of my old Fuse panel? Can't I just replace my old fuse panel with the new PDM if my engine is carbureted and doesn't use any sensors?
@@haltech It doesn't matter to me if I need to use a Haltech PDM has to be used with a Haltech ECU. That wasn't my question. The question is: Can I use a PDM of any brand in the place of old original fuse panel without the requirement of having to connect it to an ECU? If I have a carburetor on my engine and don't need an ECU do I still need one to have the PDM function properly?
Yes, a fully stand-alone Power Distribution Module should work with a carbureted engine but you'll obviously need to check with the manufacturer before buying.
Too much talking. Just need to explain the wiring diagram differences between relay/fuse module vs PDM pinout. Trigger switch, grounding and load output pinout differences between both types
Would love an option for classic/carby users that don't have a ecu to have some sort of pdm from you guys. I use a standalone ic7 and a typical fuse/relay box but would love a pdm for simplicity.
Absolutely, we have a whole range of universal and engine-specific harnesses that include a fuse and relay box: www.haltech.com/product-category/wiring-harnesses/
@@haltech But that won't let the power windows work without the door modules, or the windshield wipers without the wiper module, or... we really need a product that will let us fix the crap the auto makers are forcing on us.
What do you do with the red/white cable from pin B11 to the elite 2500? I’m assuming because the red/white and grey/red are connected as the output from relay one, that they get crimped together on the CAN power pin to the PDM?
At $1200 for the PD16 these products will end up exclusively in race cars and high-end customs. Hopefully the prices will come down in the future as the industry converts over to PDMs.
The majority do indeed go into race cars but you'd be surprised just how many end up in mid-level and even mildly modified cars too. It's all relative, people pay more for a rear wing on a street car....
@@haltech Appreciate your response. I test aircraft as an occupation and I'm pretty familiar with the benefits of both distributed power and CAN. I'd love to upgrade the electrics in my project car but can't justify the price. Perhaps sometime in the future.
Crazy timing, just about to embark on this exact project on my GT40 with elite 2500 and old school fuse and relay panel that desperately needs updating. Thank you 🙏.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is a huge step in the right direction!! Just like B. Sully said, definitely need a wiring /setup video of converting factory fuse boxes to the PD16. I think at a minimum, lighting, starter, alternator control, wipers…basically the essential stuff…or just all of it in a multi-video series!!
Agree many would be interested in that, especially diy resto modders
You've asked for it - and here it is: A step-by-step guide to removing a fuse / relay box from your harness and re-wiring it into a PDM. (sorry about the fingernails....)
Products used in this video:
PD16 and Accessories: www.haltech.com/product-category/inputs-and-can-expansion-products/power-management/
Dual Crimper Set: www.haltech.com/product/ht-070300-dual-crimper-set/
Crimping tools: www.haltech.com/product-category/tuning-tools/
CAN adaptor loom: www.haltech.com/product/ht-130046-can-adaptor-loom/
Haltech have the best staff. Dave and Scotty are so freaking cool. Can you imagine how nerdy the conversation would get when hanging out with them? I'd love it!
can confirm. lunch convos do indeed get very nerdy.
This is why I love videos of Scotty tuning Benny's cars. There's always a good bit of nerding out about cars, and it's always entertaining.
You guys always do a great job explaining things on other channels, great to see you've got extended thorough explanations under your own banner too. Someday I'll have a car project cool enough to need an ecu and pdm, and it'll 100% be a haltech. No question.
I love the idea, but at 5 to 10 times the cost of a simple fuse-and-relay setup, I'll stick with what I can diagnose on the trail, if it ever needs to be done.
Agreed. I feel like at it's current price it's not feasible for the majority of enthusiasts.
It is pricey but it actually adds some diagnostic capabilities if you have your laptop. For example, if the output was on and the current draw was zero that would indicate an open circuit. Furthermore if it was shorted you would get a DTC and you would see the overcurrent value in the software. Also no more fuses to replace.
@@autotuneengineering I'm not discounting the added benefits you mention. My concern is that when I'm off-road, I don't bring my laptop. I have a box of fuses (many different ratings) and relays that are interchangeable. A quick check and swap and I could be back on the road before my computer booted.
Technology is good, but complexity is not as robust as simplicity. For me in that situation, simplicity works best for me.
@@autotuneengineering All of that depends on the problem being something other than the module itself; you have doubled the number of points of failure in each circuit and made it literally impossible to accurately diagnose.
Go read a modern factory service manual, half of the component tests just say, "Replace with known good part and check operation," because the module arrangement makes it impossible to do anything else.
Here’s the thing … The difference between a porcupine and a Porsche driver? With Porsche, the pricks are on the inside.. 🤓😂🤪. I am a 964 Owner and Weekend warrior in the garage. Dropped engine. Etc.. Never touched a wiring harness. All your doo-dad’s look intriguing, however, can’t find a single thread on the World Wide Web that has replaced the standard ECU with your products or fuse box on a swap of stock street car. Not one. Our cars are 30 years old and someday it would be fun to swap the ECU and Fuse box to some CAN stuff 🥳. I am not talking strip out the stock harness and ripping out the dash. More like your products configured to use existing harness. Pie in the sky, I know. Probably a Porsche specialist would be required to make that happen. I’m talking N/A 3.6L, not intended to Turbo or Race, however, would be fun to go Wide band vs Narrow band, be able to micro manage Fuel Trim and Maps, etc.. This require somebody to do the following work; Create a conversion cable for accepting the 964 ECU wiring harness plug on one end and your input to Haltech ECU on other and of course, trying to accommodate every function Motronic does in the stock ECU. Add PDM to eliminate stock fuse box too… The other approach is to ween certain functions from Stock ECU to a 3rd party ECU running in parallel? 😳. It seems your products are targeted to folks who have gutted their vehicles down to bare interior, etc. I wonder, does Singer Conversions go with 3rd party ECU’s and PDM and CAN technologies? Keep building, we’ll keep watching. 👍
What great timing. Just ordered this for my build on my turbo mini. Thanks for the easy DIY instructions for this
Why on Earth would you ever do this?! You can get the same functionality with just an auxiliary fuse box without sacrificing the ability to effectively troubleshoot future electrical issues.
Effectively troubleshooting electrical issues is one of the key points of this conversion.
@@haltech Um, speaking as an auto tech with 30 years of experience, it doesn't work that way.
Watching this back straight away...I need to absorb this as its my last major bit, to a 20+year restoration on a M1 Escort.
This is bloody amazingballs information... Blew me 36 galaxy's away,il 100 percent be in contact with you guys very very soon
That's going to be an expensive call from that distance, but we look forward to taking it!
@@haltech nah we got wifi here 👌 😂
@@haltech sounds like a Scotty reply :)
Doesn't haltech pdms only work with Haltech ECUs? So no Hondata ECUs, ECUMaster, etc?
Thank you so much for the detailed video. At first some of the extra wires made no sense to me but after watching this video, it all made sense to me. I watched this video step by step as I was cutting and splicing at the same time.
That I had 3 gray/red wires but some testing narrowed down the correct one. I grounded the ECU to the battery and went one by one on the g/r wires giving them 12v until my ecu powered up
Ford did this in the late 90's ... also known as the CCRM - for constant control relay module.... they were nothing but problems and was just easier to install normal relays which were much more reliable and easier to replace when something does goes bad..... how much is your PDM? and if only one issue in the PDM doesnt work you have to replace the whole thing vs a single relay....
You really should not put two wires into a single deutsch connector cavity. The terminals aren’t rated for it( probably not a huge deal if the CMA is within range), but worse the seal will be compromised, you cannot seal a figure of eight intrusion with a round seal. Yes you said you’re going to be in an interior space so even that shouldn’t matter, but for demonstration purpose you should show the right way, using a splice somewhere else in the harness.
Love it…
Can you do the same Video but with the Nexus? I can make assumptions and guessing it’s similar but simpler.
Would also be good to show the injectors, coils in the video connected so we can see it full wired.
Can you also include indicators and lights as I’m aware the nexus can run far more than a traditional ecu.
I have a nexus waiting to go in, so this is helpful
Awesome vid. An idea for a vid is a "Complete guide to converting your car from carbies to EFI". Something like Al did to Mick's 1600, but more around what you need to do it, rather than how to do it and what happens after. Or, even better, partner with the likes of EFI Hardware and put together carb to EFI conversion kits! Happy for you to start with L series Datto motors, and will donate me car for a few months as test mule :D
Dave-Os voice is so soothing. It makes me want to listen him talk.
Dave really does love doing wiring. It's amazing.
Awsome video great inf it's not hard at all to do this I dealing with a honda accord the have a bad wire somewhere and including me and 3 more mechanic couldn't find it for me I think it's bette get rid of all those wire and fo something simple like that I'm gonna start saving to get this soon as possible 😀 👍
Nice works guys. ps wouldn't matter what the topic was i could watch these 2 all day!!
Hi, Is it possible to use the original Steering Column switch?
What I'd be curious to know is just how versatile the pdm would be, such as using a pdm to power general body functions of a vehicle such as lights, windows, locks, etc.
That’s what I am also curious about, PDM definitely can work all those functions with a CAN keypad but what if we want to use factory combi switches etc
Loving the new PDM videos. Any chance we get a video about wiring up a wiper motor?
We're thinking about doing a full car wiring with wipers and all, so yeah, that's in the pipeline.
@@haltech appreciate y'all!
@@haltech please do. Dave's wiring series was awesome last year, need a second series!
Any reason your CAN message period is 50ms and not lower like 10 or 5?
This is a huge improvement… all the LS guys always want to go Holley. For me I’d love to use a Haltech system on my twin turbo G8GT. Do you have a system that still allows my BCM control over body stuff like a/c, heated seats ect? Thanks for the info I definitely prefer Haltech over Holley tuning wise.
the only people that use holley are advertisers. the problem is you think paid advertisers are actual doers. they are not.
@@DieselRamcharger agreed. I’m using a Haltech 2500 on my LS swap.
their is no plug and play harness..but you can depin your factory ecu items you dont need..injectors, coils, etc and keep what you want ac/etc...I did it on my 08 silverado
I’ve watched this a couple of times now. I’m looking at doing this with a s3 and universal harness for a r32 gtr. Since the s3 harness is different to the premium harness what pins would I use?
We'd recommend the R3.
That was so good
More videos like that please.
This is great information, do you have any tutorials for people coming from carburettor engines moving to aftermarket ECU/ECM for different reasons ( racing/performance, restomod ,etc ), explain how to wire each sensors, triggers, ancillary, pumps .etc fusebox,etc for the more basic haltech systems ( elite 500,750,etc. For me I'm coming from a 74' Vw T2 build ( type 4/porsche 912
big bore stroker ) that has twin carbs to ECU/ECM
*** HALTECH *** Please create a dedicated PDM screen for the IC7 dash since the software only allows you to add the specific channels you want and isn't a full STUDIO package software. Include state indicators, maybe a bar graph for the current with numerical value and numerical voltage value and DTC codes and also PIN numbers and wire graphic with color code. No more laptop to view PDM info or get wiring diagram. Now that would be neat.
To clarify, the ECU gets its 'power on' power from the PD16's CAN +12V, and the rest of the CAN network (o2 sensor etc) will get its power from the ECUs CAN +12V?
can a stock ECU operate with the PDM?
Can we buy a 2500 a pdm and dash and a plug and play loom ?
When I have used nylon harness sleeve, when I cut it, it almost frayed instantly. I struggled to use it. I noticed when Dave cut the cable tie, it didn’t really come apart. So I’ve taken a look at the Haltech cable harness sleeve kit you do. Clearly there must be different kinds of nylon sleeve. As far as heat goes, are some ok for engine bays and other types not?
I went wrong in using regular heat shrink as well. I now know to use the double layered 3:1 (?) heat shrink.
I’m going to go back and rewatch some of Dave’s tutorials. I’m sure he covered harness labelling in one?
Sorry, a bit off topic from the PDM wiring.
When crimping two wires into a single DTP, are you at all worried about the compromised weatherproofing on the cable seal?
I have always believed that was a bad idea on those connectors, but I can't say I've ever tested it. Double crimping on a DTP is easier than making another splice in the harness and dealing with SCL to support the splice area.
Damn...I should of just got the elite harness and not got the pdm harness/Universal harness for the 1500....Now lets get a one adding the pdm to the elite universal :)
Does a PDM have to be used with a ECU if I just want to get rid of my old Fuse panel? Can't I just replace my old fuse panel with the new PDM if my engine is carbureted and doesn't use any sensors?
Sorry, the Haltech PD16 only works with a Haltech ECUs.
@@haltech It doesn't matter to me if I need to use a Haltech PDM has to be used with a Haltech ECU. That wasn't my question.
The question is: Can I use a PDM of any brand in the place of old original fuse panel without the requirement of having to connect it to an ECU?
If I have a carburetor on my engine and don't need an ECU do I still need one to have the PDM function properly?
Yes, a fully stand-alone Power Distribution Module should work with a carbureted engine but you'll obviously need to check with the manufacturer before buying.
Ahhh man they know me to well cable tied in place lolololol
Amm, is it that guy that helps Marty and Moog with ecu programing and wiring things in Mightycarmods?
It is! He works here full time :)
This is awesome! I'm curious if something like this exists for use with a factory/OEM ECU - I cannot run an aftermarket ECU where I live.
Legends, that’s for the info!
Would Haltech offer this as a service converting the premium harness from an elite to the pdm? Or have someone they'd recommend to do it?
I used to build PCs when I was 13. Now I'm 21 and it's the same with cars.
It's on the list😅👍
💥
Too much talking. Just need to explain the wiring diagram differences between relay/fuse module vs PDM pinout. Trigger switch, grounding and load output pinout differences between both types
Already covered that in this video: ua-cam.com/video/IeNT4DtTbwc/v-deo.html
Would love an option for classic/carby users that don't have a ecu to have some sort of pdm from you guys. I use a standalone ic7 and a typical fuse/relay box but would love a pdm for simplicity.
4:30 "cut here" /snip "but before you do....." lol!
Is there a product that is the opposite of this? Something to rewire a new car with an old-style fuse and relay box?
Absolutely, we have a whole range of universal and engine-specific harnesses that include a fuse and relay box:
www.haltech.com/product-category/wiring-harnesses/
@@haltech But that won't let the power windows work without the door modules, or the windshield wipers without the wiper module, or... we really need a product that will let us fix the crap the auto makers are forcing on us.
How suitable is this for an Engine Swap?
What do you do with the red/white cable from pin B11 to the elite 2500? I’m assuming because the red/white and grey/red are connected as the output from relay one, that they get crimped together on the CAN power pin to the PDM?
Send a message through to our support team via www.haltech.com/support
They'll be more than happy to assist you :)
Need 1 forbmw
I can run a pdm with a stock ECU right?
This was great!
Will you guys do this for other manufacturers as well?
Could do with you guys near where I live in the uk
I use a Micro 850 PLC Controller
What about the configuration of ECU and PDM? or it comes preprogrammed?
Check out this video: ua-cam.com/video/1GF8-QtqxWY/v-deo.htmlsi=ycC1M1gLboZNG_40
:)
Is dave standing and scotty sitting down 🤔🤣
Are you more proud of the job? Yeah?!
At $1200 for the PD16 these products will end up exclusively in race cars and high-end customs. Hopefully the prices will come down in the future as the industry converts over to PDMs.
The majority do indeed go into race cars but you'd be surprised just how many end up in mid-level and even mildly modified cars too. It's all relative, people pay more for a rear wing on a street car....
@@haltech Appreciate your response. I test aircraft as an occupation and I'm pretty familiar with the benefits of both distributed power and CAN. I'd love to upgrade the electrics in my project car but can't justify the price. Perhaps sometime in the future.
Overkill is Underrated! :D
😁😉🙃🙂😉
Love this stuff
Who would have thought anyone could make wiring entertaining. You guys do, and do it easy.
Great Video!
Can the PDM switch an exhaust flap?
They mentioned this use in another video, if your running the correct Haltech ECU, the PDM can directly operate an exhaust flap
Crazy timing, just about to embark on this exact project on my GT40 with elite 2500 and old school fuse and relay panel that desperately needs updating. Thank you 🙏.
Would love to see some pix of the setup!!
Loved the video
Thanks:)
Whats wrong with davo in this video. Looks like his struggling
Like you can do any better. You can't type he's 😂