Doctor Who's Metacrisis Mistake

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  • Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
  • Now that the dust has settled on Doctor Who's 60th anniversary specials, I wanted to take a look back at The Star Beast, especially the controversial ending of the episode, where Donna Noble and her daughter Rose simply expel their dangerous metacrisis energy and "let it go". I don't like this ending (not for political reasons though lol) and here's why I think it was such a disappointing misfire.
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    #DoctorWho #60thAnniversary #Review

КОМЕНТАРІ • 432

  • @HarboWholmes
    @HarboWholmes  8 місяців тому +44

    No, this video isn't about THAT line
    www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

    • @gamerboiiiiiii
      @gamerboiiiiiii 8 місяців тому +30

      The extreamly sexist and misandrist one?

    • @Gabbagool86
      @Gabbagool86 8 місяців тому +19

      @@gamerboiiiiiii Yeah that's the one i doubt a whotube channel would want to point out that incredibly regressive and nonsensical line because well it might make the show look like it's being run by a bunch of morons. That shouldn't be a concern thought since everyone already knows that but they live in hope.

    • @theinvisiblegentleman1142
      @theinvisiblegentleman1142 8 місяців тому +4

      Is that why you were deleting comments that mentioned that line in the community post?

    • @truefan4136
      @truefan4136 8 місяців тому +3

      was my comment deleted ? if so can I have a reason as to why?

    • @HarboWholmes
      @HarboWholmes  8 місяців тому +7

      @@theinvisiblegentleman1142 as explained in the community post, I didn't delete anything, comments positive AND negative were randomly deleted without me doing anything

  • @jbfangirl
    @jbfangirl 8 місяців тому +34

    I didn't like the resolution. The line about male-presenting Time Lord not knowing about letting go when he had a previous incarnation (Twelfth Doctor) whose famous last words were "Doctor, I let you go." I agree that there really wasn't much lead up to the reveal about Rose having meta-crisis energy.

  • @erubin100
    @erubin100 8 місяців тому +294

    There actually WAS a simple solution to this that they could've easily thrown in with no effort: instead of 15's "prize" for beating the Toymaker being a second TARDIS, it could've been to free Donna and Rose from the meta crisis! That way there would've been an actual reason for this being a trilogy! PROBLEM SOLVED!

    • @thetimeshadow6769
      @thetimeshadow6769 8 місяців тому +20

      That's acc a really good idea.

    • @adampica9815
      @adampica9815 8 місяців тому

      ​@@thetimeshadow6769i second that

    • @HMMadsen
      @HMMadsen 8 місяців тому +8

      I agree with thetimeshadow, this is good. It's simple but sounds so obvious that I'm surprised Davis didn't do it

    • @WisdomShark
      @WisdomShark 8 місяців тому +61

      Alternatively, Donna and Rose could've "let go" of the meta crisis by funneling their regeneration energy back into The Doctor, which could've been the origin of the bi-generation instead of it coming out of nowhere.

    • @mjudec
      @mjudec 8 місяців тому +17

      Both of these are vastly superior ideas. And would've kept the ticking clock over Donna, adding tension.

  • @sanddagger36
    @sanddagger36 8 місяців тому +102

    honestly having Dona finally die after getting 14 more years would not have been so bad. Or maybe the doctor sacrifices himself to save her, causing them both to regenerate

    • @maegor-targaryen
      @maegor-targaryen 2 місяці тому +1

      Donna explodes and turns into Matt Smith, who immediately starts snogging Rose. Jedi Force Ghost of Steven Moffat fades in, and smiles and nods.

  • @Jackson-ub1uv
    @Jackson-ub1uv 8 місяців тому +88

    What's funny is that, by bringing back the Toymaker, all RTD had to do was _not_ explain why Donna survived and have the Toymaker later reveal that _he_ was responsible for it. By making it the Toymaker's fault, not only would it have lent some mystery to how it was resolved and help tie The Star Beast to the other two episodes, but it would've also been a satisfying conclusion for the audience.

    • @wanderingrandomer
      @wanderingrandomer 8 місяців тому +13

      And to go furthur with the Toymaker, his return could've been better explained by the devestation of the Flux ripping the universe apart or something and allowing him back in, rather than that BS with salt in episode 2. That would further the guilt we are *told* the Doctor feels for causing the Flux.

    • @SSJPENGUIN
      @SSJPENGUIN 8 місяців тому +3

      Yeah I did think the Toymaker was ultimate workaround for something like this but alas

    • @efad3215
      @efad3215 7 місяців тому +5

      You basically have Q-with-conditions in your pocket....And you *don't* use him to fix a plothole or revive a "dead" character? What are you even doing at that point as a writer, even a writer of fanfiction, much less a hired writer working on this project you've basically had 15 years to think up fiction of

  • @Thenesrookie
    @Thenesrookie 8 місяців тому +29

    13:25 Just throwing it out there (and this is nothing but silly fan fic)
    Imagine if The Doctor had actually figured out how to remove the Metacrisis during his 11th incarnation.
    You have a scene during the climax where the ship is about to self destuct where we flash back to Doctors 11,12, and 13 coming back to erase it at various points in time. Each time they arrive to find Donna, Shaun and Rose at various happy points in their lives and naturally realises that she would've been happier without The Doctor. Showing that they have in fact pogressed and can "let her go"
    So the only bring back the Metacrisis as a last resort.

  • @OkMakuTree
    @OkMakuTree 8 місяців тому +90

    One of the biggest issues with the RTD era is his tendency to not consider the larger ramifications of the Scifi concepts he introduces. For example, in School Reunion the Z-List villains the Krillitane are within a stone's throw of deciphering the algorithm of the universe, which would give them complete control of time and space. That's absurdly powerful and can be easily discovered with the help of a few mentally enhanced children, yet never gets brought up again. Does it service the character plot? I guess, but RTD definitely didn't need to introduce universally high stakes to explore of The Doctor's relationship with his current and former companions.
    In the 60th anniversary specials it's clear not much has changed, RTD still prioritizes hitting character beats over making his Scifi ideas airtight. I enjoyed them for what they were, but I am concerned for his upcoming seasons. I hope the other writers can reign in RTD's worst tendencies and help fill in for his weak areas.

    • @matthewlacey4198
      @matthewlacey4198 8 місяців тому +8

      I find RTD tends to write himself into a corner with his set ups, they're always one bigger, one better than last time and you can't keep upping the stakes like that

    • @zachanikwano
      @zachanikwano 8 місяців тому +3

      I mean, I agree but if you’re going to prioritize one thing over another I’d choose characters.
      Again tho the lore plot holes would drive me a bit batty.

  • @engineerforthefuture8593
    @engineerforthefuture8593 8 місяців тому +166

    I agree that it was lazy storytelling. But it seems dishonest to me to wholly ignore Rose's statement since it was not only polarizing and unnecessary, it also seems very out of character from the otherwise kind and supportive Rose. It was very antagonistic for no reason. And they both got the Doctor's memories, so they both know he was a woman like a day ago, so it doesn't even work logically. It's just terrible on every level.

    • @markpostgate2551
      @markpostgate2551 8 місяців тому +28

      This is a bit cynical and perhaps tinhatted of me, but I think the "engagement" gained from upsetting people is considered to the production team to be positive PR. It's like the neglected kid being disruptive at school because getting in trouble is the most attention he ever gets. And maybe it works - how do we incentivise quality over obnoxiousness if obnoxiousness gets noticed and quality gets ignored?

    • @empressfrozentoes5285
      @empressfrozentoes5285 8 місяців тому +44

      I agree, I'm literally the person they're trying to pander to (read: LGBT person) with that line and it's literally the most cringe inducing line I've ever heard in a doctor who episode 💀

    • @BoeBins
      @BoeBins 8 місяців тому +1

      ​@@markpostgate2551 actually it's not tinhatted at all. In fact you are spot on about engagement. Look up Parrot Analytics.

    • @avocadothecat
      @avocadothecat 8 місяців тому +18

      a@@empressfrozentoes5285 also it makes you guys look bad. Never have I met an actual LGBT person that is patronusing like that.

    • @empressfrozentoes5285
      @empressfrozentoes5285 8 місяців тому +27

      @avocadothecat you've highlighted another problem I had with it; it paints a picture of LGBT people that's so chronically online that it doesn't even exist off the internet. I sincerely hope russ never tries to write an LGBT character again, he peaked with sky sylvestry and now he's just showing his ineptitude trying to write one for what he thinks is "the modern audience".

  • @emperorholocron8278
    @emperorholocron8278 8 місяців тому +21

    The metacrisis, the bigeneration, the “Fresh start, happy ending for The Doctor” was just something that was done so Russell wouldn’t have to put down his favourite toy. I mean we see that 15 EVEN AFTER the whole “fresh slate” break is still haunted by The Timeless Child stuff.
    Wish David’s Doctor didn’t get that special treatment…

    • @joshuacroll8534
      @joshuacroll8534 8 місяців тому +8

      This is the issue with Russel, he has really obvious favourites, Rose, Ten and Donna, and seemingly can't put them down

  • @DalekCaanOfSkaro
    @DalekCaanOfSkaro 8 місяців тому +25

    Okay, Im no writer, but im gonna put on my fan fic head on for a second. The first problem with all these specials to me is they lacked some type of continuous story. And this comes to my second point, Im all for Donna getting her memories back, but it needs to have stakes and needs to have a powerful justification. So, heres my pitch of what RTD could have done, the story would have had Donna sacrifice herself like in the Star Beast to save her daughter and London, but it turns out her death due to the metacrisis was actually part of a big game of the Toymaker, and to save Donna, The Doctor would have to play a game with the Toymaker, and his prize would be to save Donna. The Toymaker can do anything being a celestial god, so it wouldnt be too hard to believe that he could bring Donna back. Its a rough fan fic, but it would connect each story and have Donna saved in a logical, believable and plausible way.

  • @johnphamlore8073
    @johnphamlore8073 8 місяців тому +6

    The Doctor has a horrifying inability to think outside the box to solve problems with companions. To me, at some point the Doctor will slap their foreheads and realize that Bill and Heather could easily locate and crack open the Quantum Shade freeing Clara's soul.

  • @TJKlimoski
    @TJKlimoski 8 місяців тому +83

    Do you think the ending to series 1 with Eccelston might have actually been because Eccelston left? Could RTD's original intent have been for the 9th doctor to absorb and then 'let it go'. Honestly it would fit into his writing style more 😂. Maybe we should thank Eccelston for that series 1 ending having actual consequences.

    • @Gamelover254
      @Gamelover254 8 місяців тому +11

      Honestly RTD got a bit lucky that someone left at the end of each season. It made it seem like the events had actual consequences.
      Series one was the death of the ninth doctor.
      Series 2 was Rose being trapped in a different world.
      Series 3 was Martha getting fed up and leaving and he also lost the master again.
      Series 4 was of course Donna losing her memory.
      And the specials concluded with losing David Tennant.
      All these departures made the journey feel real and it made the events that caused them seem bigger and more memorable.

    • @HuntingViolets
      @HuntingViolets 7 місяців тому

      He was originally supposed to survive but then they used it to write him out, out of necessity.

    • @maegor-targaryen
      @maegor-targaryen 2 місяці тому +2

      @@Gamelover254 Honestly, it made the RTD era feel a bit H*rry P*tter to me, where the Big Plot Event always happens at the end of the school year, after the exams, because the big baddie _really_ cares about the formal education of the teenage boy he’s obsessed with.

  • @something1600
    @something1600 8 місяців тому +18

    If Donna could have just released the Doctor-Donna WHY DID SHE NOT DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

  • @shmikex
    @shmikex 8 місяців тому +11

    I like the idea of the Meta Crisis energy being split between Donna and Rose, but HATED the "just let it go" statement. One of two things could have happened.
    1. The Meta Crisis energy still needs to be released. The Doctor now has a solution to remove the energy or knows where to go. It could be Galifrey (although the timelords are gone, the lab equipment might not all be destroyed) or one of the other places the Doctor went to during 11, 12, or 13's run (on screen or off screen). It could be the stuff of the next two episodes. Then at the end 15 splits from 14 and Donna and 14 still settle down with her family.
    2. By splitting the Meta Crisis energy between two humans (two hearts), Donna and Rose are fine. Donna and 14 are involved in the other two stories, and when 15 splits from 14, 14 and Donna still settle down with her family.

    • @Mugiwara2k
      @Mugiwara2k 8 місяців тому +2

      That is probably my one gripe about it, the whole ‘Let it go’ thing. The idea of it being split between Donna and Rose was great, but the let it go thing did feel a bit lazy.
      I still enjoyed it overall though.

  • @Blandy8521
    @Blandy8521 8 місяців тому +11

    For me the problem is the missed potential that getting rid of it in episode 1 was.
    Even if we kept the plot mostly the same I think that the metacrisis being resolved in ep2 and that causing the Toymaker to be able to enter reality would've been more interesting.
    Have the salt game (still not sure how that allowed the Toymaker into reality) combined with the energy of the metacrisis be what let the Toymaker in

    • @Arizonaguy1856
      @Arizonaguy1856 8 місяців тому +2

      what if it was both? and thats why the third special has the big bad of the toymaker?

  • @zurgtheemperor975
    @zurgtheemperor975 8 місяців тому +16

    When I saw Donna and Rose "let it go" at the end of The Star Beast, I was confused. In Journey's End, it was said that Donna had to forget about the Doctor to survive, but then she and Rose were able to remember the Doctor without dieing.

  • @Julios_47
    @Julios_47 8 місяців тому +4

    I think that they could try to extend this storyline until The Giggle, then 14th sacrifice his regeneration to save his best friend

  • @EddJones25
    @EddJones25 8 місяців тому +17

    If the theme is "let it go",
    Donna could well have done all that, saved the day,
    and then died,
    we're going into a whole new era,
    time to let companions from RTD1 go too

  • @redbaron9420
    @redbaron9420 8 місяців тому +8

    7:14 I think you misunderstood that scene. Here RTD criticised the Moffat's love for bittersweet endings, as Ponds, Clara and Bill are only "technically" not dead. But IMO Davies got quite the opposite problem: obsession with "happily-ever-afters" and he wasn't quite happy that 10th and Donna didn't got theirs at the end of his run.

  • @Doctor_What63
    @Doctor_What63 8 місяців тому +34

    This video is spot on!
    Series 4 was my favourite series, so this resolution was almost insulting.
    I didn’t have an issue with the metacrises being passed down to Rose, that made sense, but the what follows and how it’s executed was poor.
    I now can’t rewatch my favourite series and enjoy that tragic ending which showcased some excellent acting, writing, directing and score without thinking about how it gets undone so messily in the 60th

    • @descatter
      @descatter 8 місяців тому +3

      Yes - it was all going so compellingly well until the ‘let it go’ bullshit. My sister, who is, like me, proudly just ‘woke’ enough without resorting to tedious silliness, said it best - ‘That is just CRINGE!’ And indeed it was. Fuck, it was an awful moment on transmission and it was hard for The Star Beast to recover from it, because it was all building really well until he kicked it over and pissed on it. You know what - it was such a sloppy joke of a resolution, we should try to come up with something brilliant and satisfying to replace it in our imaginations. Sometimes, head canon can come to the rescue.

    • @Doctor_What63
      @Doctor_What63 8 місяців тому +1

      @@descatter tbh I started to question how well it was building up, the Doctor didn’t seem to care about Donna’s head blowing up when he started acting all cocky saying he has 2 hearts and handing her the sonic screwdriver 🤦‍♂️

    • @descatter
      @descatter 8 місяців тому +1

      @@Doctor_What63 indeed, even knocking on her door and changing his tune to her remembering him, not just seeing him, pushed the integrity of that arc somewhat, but there still seemed to be the possibility up until then that he was operating in safe parameters like a tightrope walker.

  • @ultimategamingchannel3800
    @ultimategamingchannel3800 7 місяців тому +1

    I agree with your closing remarks about the 60th specials.
    - It stunned me that the meta crisis wasn’t a 3 episode long arc too due to how the marketing made it seem
    - I was disappointed that there wasn’t a proper explanation for why the face of the 10th returned (along with the clothes changing)
    - I was also disappointed that the Toymaker didn’t have at least a 2 part episode due to how heavily he was featured in the marketing (especially with how quickly the 2nd & 3rd games between the Doctor & Toymaker were played)
    The specials were still enjoyable but I’d probably only go back to watch the 2nd episode again

  • @Condor-gb1xp
    @Condor-gb1xp 8 місяців тому +2

    RTD saw Moffat undercutting tragic companion endings and took notes

  • @Domisbeast
    @Domisbeast 8 місяців тому +1

    It could easily have been that the reward for beating the toymaker was to cure donna from the metacrisis, or even more dramatic, have it be a choice between saving Donna and banishing the toymaker, and donna makes the choice to sacrifice herself in order to do the right thing

  • @speeeee35
    @speeeee35 8 місяців тому +6

    I still think Ruby is gonna be the daughter of Rose and the original meta crisis doctor that they made a point to say only had one heart and was human… And I think it’s gonna be like either their dimension is dangerous or someone’s after her or something like that, or maybe that she NEEDS to be in a dif dimension bc her father is barely a real person… so that is why they need to put her in roses original timeline before she ever met the doctor (which she would’ve met the doctor a year later almost to the day of ruby’s being found)… It just fits too perfectly… She even looks like she could be their daughter lol
    They even had a walk around the tardis, the way rose did when she first saw it…

    • @speeeee35
      @speeeee35 8 місяців тому +3

      *meaning blonde rose just to be clear 😂

    • @markpostgate2551
      @markpostgate2551 8 місяців тому

      ​@@speeeee35
      😂 I was about to say! "I don't know how I am going to break this to you..."
      "Where's the foetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?" as Reg of the Peoples Front of Judea would say.
      I think Ruby will turn out to be the same species as the Doctor as RTD tries to embellish and fill in gaps of the Timeless Child back story.

  • @sassquatch212
    @sassquatch212 8 місяців тому +15

    I was so excited for the 60th. Couldn’t believe how disappointing it was. Wild Blue Yonder was decent but the others were terrible in my opinion.
    Totally not worth bringing back Tennant and Tate and ruining Donna’s perfect ending.
    It was always going to be difficult to do justice to bringing back Donna, and really it probably should never have happened, shame they didn’t even try.

  • @NileSWPhotography
    @NileSWPhotography 8 місяців тому +1

    The one thing I really didn’t like was how careless and silly the Doctor was being about his identity. I understand he sort of HAD to but he was being real alien like before all the action: mentioning having 2 hearts, letting Donna see the sonic screwdriver and not remembering his cover up (being a friend of Neyrs)

  • @natvelo
    @natvelo 8 місяців тому +17

    i love and respect all non binary and trans people, but the lines "binary" "non-binary" was so damn funny to me lmao

    • @saeedrazavi4428
      @saeedrazavi4428 8 місяців тому +16

      I'm nonbinary and that line made my skin crawl

    • @gamerboiiiiiii
      @gamerboiiiiiii 8 місяців тому +1

      There was barely any respect to 'non binary people' :/ they litterally shoved a misandrist scene into a show and directed at the nost favorite doctor.

    • @joyconfdpd6222
      @joyconfdpd6222 8 місяців тому +4

      Trans here and i found roses comment about the doctor going back to "male presenting" rude imo as the 9th doctor said he could regenerate into anything maybe a dog with 2 heads. This was a cheap shot to push a trans narrative in the show it makes trans people sound snarky and selfish towards others. The whole binary and non binary thing made me absolutely cringe

    • @EmergeHolographic
      @EmergeHolographic 8 місяців тому +1

      @@joyconfdpd6222 I just figured out what's so dissonant about it. As a trans person also, Rose's story arc involves feeling alien and faces people intentionally misgendering her. I can relate to Rose feeling othered for being trans, obviously, but through that empathy I'm also aware of how it feels to be treated like my sex defines who I am inside, which is what Rose did to the Doctor right at the end. That's counter to what her arc should have been. Not to mention, Rose had never met 14, who is she to assume he presents the same way he identifies? 14 should have said "Don't assume" back at her, then "My dress regenerated."
      I'm also just realizing as well, I loved and related to 13, in part because of the Doctor being a woman I could relate to, but also for the gender allegory of a previously male character swapping identities, effectively turning the Doctor into a naturally transitioning character. So, for Rose, a trans woman, to put 14 down as if the previous Doctor hadn't transitioned (or existed)? Yeah, it was dissonant as heck.

    • @saeedrazavi4428
      @saeedrazavi4428 8 місяців тому

      @EmergeHolographic fr yeah. It felt like they wanted to write a gender essentialist line of "a man wouldn't get it" in a misguided attempt to reaffirm Rose's womanhood, but remembered they had to use inclusive language and didn't think about the line being fundamentally bad. Rose is a woman but RTD, can we not affirm one trans person by shitting on and essentializing someone else's experience of gender? That's what transmedicalists do and it's icky

  • @WiGgYof09
    @WiGgYof09 8 місяців тому +1

    They could have had the Meta Crisis looming in the background and then had it have something to do with the Doctors bigeneration.
    They easily could have the exact same regeneration scene where Donna holds the Doctors hand, only have Rose there instead of Mel. As the Doctor regenerates, it triggers the Meta Crisis energy to keave both their bodies and forces the Doctor to split. This solves two issues. One, why the Doctor bigenerates and Two, gets rid of the meta crais in a way that the Doctor wouldnt have known about before.
    The only issue is that it would mean having The Doctor Donna around during the other 2 specials which would change how they played out. However, we could have the Doctor apply a surpressor of some kind while he tries tomfind a solution. Its all made up science anyway, they could literally do anything they want.

  • @andrewsmart4491
    @andrewsmart4491 7 місяців тому

    Completely agree, except, I like the idea the meta crisis can be diluted through a bloodline, and there is a precedent. Have the meta crisis be a thing throughout the specials then have cues like have the captain of the ship in the wild blue yonder be a descendent of Donna and give her the idea of finding other ancestors. Then when the toymaker talks about the jigsaw of the Doctor's life another cue to use the TARDIS to pinpoint Donna's ancestral line and seed the meta crisis through it. The DoctorDonna side though corrupts the telepathic circuits and causes the Doctor to cross and collide with his own incarnations pitting them at different times against the Toymaker United and thrashing him at his own games. The collisions though weaken The Doctor and the nexus of his 10th and 14th incarnations stretch the blinovitch limitation to breaking point resulting in the 15th Doctor being wrenched from his future regeneration backwards to meet the fourteenth and slow him down figuratively and physically as the TARDIS careers out of control. The Tardises split and they find themselves side by side facing the toymaker. Best of 15? They day. The game? SNAP! the reality smashing nature of these two incarnations banishes the toymaker whence he came. 15 says goodbye to his past and says, hey the universe, I got it. Why not put your feet up for a bit. We deserve it. And off he goes into adventures in time and space

  • @ThatAnArchyDude
    @ThatAnArchyDude 8 місяців тому

    8:31
    Excuse me?
    It was mentioned in the very next special because the No-Thing version of Donna had access to those memories & used them to thoroughly emotionally torture Fourteen.
    Also, Fourteen brought this up to Donna later, asking if she truly can't remember any of it.

  • @robertshannon8357
    @robertshannon8357 8 місяців тому +6

    So I think having the Metacrisis slowed because part of it being passed down to Rose would have been great, then having Rose go with The Doctor and Donna while now questioning if her being Trans was due to the Metacrisis energy or truly herself would leave room for development. In Wild Blue Yonder those aliens not being able to copy Rose at all removing that doubt show that the energy doesn't change who you are and both The Doctor and Donna knowing this, but also realing as a young person Rose needed to be able to come to that herself. I know if I suddenly found out there was thus alien energy that had been manifesting itself out of my subconscious my entire life I would certainly question how much of me was actually me and feel like a storyline like that would be a good one for any young person to see. Then finally in The giggle Rose being there to see the human costs of The Doctors life, both in how dangerous it can be staying with him and dangers that find him and come looking for him would have been great. In the climax of the special when the Toymaker has hit The Doctor with the UNIT weapon, the regeneration is unstable prompting Donna and Rose to try funneling the Metacrisis energy into The Doctor causing the bigeneration, and the special could continue on as it did. I feel that could have given the three specials a more consistent overall story arc, Rose could have been a proper companion with real development, and not feel lazy at all in wrapping up Donna's story.

    • @Osammar100
      @Osammar100 8 місяців тому

      This is elegant plotting and I feel like gives all three of the characters more to work with. I especially like the link between the meta-crisis and bi-generation to give a rationale for something so extraordinary happening. And giving time to Rose to address what it might mean for her - I can't help but feel that would also be a braver and better representation. And definitely, the slowed meta-crisis should have been a motivating factor and ticking clock over all three specials. I actually always find a way to look past the rushed plotting in doctor who because it's always been a bit clunky and silly and I love it for that reason, but, I'd like to see your version.

    • @AH-vm8yo
      @AH-vm8yo 8 місяців тому

      I love this. It does make sense that some of the metacrisis energy would have passed down to Donna's child. I wish that the energy that has now been slowed just slowly leaves them over the 3 specials and I love the idea of bringing Rose into the other specials and letting her charcter develop.

  • @HeyJay2000
    @HeyJay2000 8 місяців тому +1

    Yeah, honestly I was really really excited for RTD to come back, I thought Doctor Who was back.
    And it kinda is, but something is just off. It feels like someone trying to mimic the RTD1 era.
    Like someone has come in and said "Yeah, I can fo that" but didn't fully understand what Russell did back then to make it so great. Except it is Russell doing it. 😅😔

  • @aDifferentJT
    @aDifferentJT 8 місяців тому +2

    Sure, the male-presenting Time Lord thing is silly given that he was literally a woman a matter of hours ago, but the real problem I have with it is that it is furthering a very harmful stereotype about men not being able to express or let go of emotions. The fact is that there are a lot of men and boys who struggle with that, they need to be told it’s ok, that letting things go can be difficult but it is possible to move on. This episode seemed to be saying ‘letting things go is super easy for us, shame you can’t, sucks to be you, haha’ which is such a toxic message.
    On the other hand, having the Doctor struggling to accept he needs to seek help and take time out to deal with stuff at the end of The Giggle was so healthy, a great message, it was just such a shame that in this context that seems to be painted as failure.
    Maybe if RTD wanted them to just let it go he could have had Donna begging to keep the Time Lord knowledge while The Doctor and Rose convince her to let it go (The Doctor having subconsciously figured out some way in the mean time to let go of the Time Lord bit keeping her memories of him, or whatever technobabble is needed). This would have wonderfully mirrored the ending of The Giggle where Donna and 15 are convincing 14 to let go of being The Doctor for a bit. It would also have made the letting it go feel earned.

  • @HudsonMedia
    @HudsonMedia 8 місяців тому

    Literally the ONE thing I saw everyone saying when Catherine and David were announced to come back was “they need to handle it right.”
    And yet when they give the most rubbish, contrived and convenient resolution to an VERY impactful character beat. Everyone just went…
    “Oh my god that’s amazing! So perfect! Holy shit!”
    From the second I saw the reaction to Star Beast. It just turned me off. Cause it sort of feels like the fans just enjoy the quality of the show no matter how bad or good.
    I just feel bad for Chibnall. That’s all I’m gonna say.

  • @CJ-qp7hi
    @CJ-qp7hi 8 місяців тому +2

    I think the DrDonna will return as intended from the boss, paring them in the first place, hence the BiGeneration.
    This leads 15 to have amnesia, forced to become the timeless child

    • @CJ-qp7hi
      @CJ-qp7hi 8 місяців тому +1

      The dr
      1-11 first regeneration cycle
      11 received an extended cycle
      12-15 - heading towards becoming the timeless child in a trap caused by the doctor choosing to save Gallifrey in his past.
      This caused the cracks in time that prevented 11s death, changing time.
      14 and Donna unleash the legions after traveling to the edge of the universe.
      This lead to 14s bi generation splitting into 14 and 15.
      Donna and Doctor merge to become the timeless child- giving 15 amnesia before he is forced to become the timeless child
      ( Timechange)
      The child after years of torture had their memories removed- including 1-15 memories.
      The child regenerated into a fugitive as the doctor's final face.
      The tardis saved a fugitive by dropping 13 on earth in the doctor's past.
      In doing so, the fugitive was able to find her past memories, from the original universe to change her past to prevent the rise of the division universe.
      By finding her old companion Kavanista with bel and vindor, working out that they are the doctor's parents born within the division timeline, their child is left at Ruby road to meet 15.
      This creates the time change, by Ruby and the 15 doctor trading places the division universe is undone however Ruby with the fob watch of memories shapes the new Gallifrey.
      The 15 doctor heads back to his universe before regeneration or dies correcting the change in time at Trenzalore allowing the dr Donna to take the doctors place in this universe and the audience follows the new doctor with a spinoff following the DrDonna
      In unit.

  • @FaeChangeling
    @FaeChangeling 8 місяців тому

    What I'm realising is that there was actually a really interesting alternative that they could have used: that being bringing the metacrisis Doctor back. They'd have to explain how he'd come back from another universe and either bring Rose back or explain why he's back without her, but this would effectively have avoided three major controversies. Instead of the Doctor regenerating back into an old face, he could have gone straight to Gatwa, the metacrisis from Donna could finally be complete by putting all the timelord energy back into the metacrisis Doctor making him a full timelord, and we wouldn't have needed to invent bigeneration to explain there being two Doctors again. Only real issue then being that it rips away Rose's happy ending to do the same thing with Donna, but maybe Rose passed away or their relationship didn't work out long term or something.

  • @obi-wan-jacobi840
    @obi-wan-jacobi840 8 місяців тому

    One thing I think RTD and Moffat both did a lot was to give their companions bittersweet (if not outright bitter) endings. I don’t mind this point even though it was kinda poorly executed because it allows Donna to continue living happily ever after. I want them to start bringing back companions who go out on their own terms without some horrific tragedy befalling them.

  • @VeryUsMumblings
    @VeryUsMumblings 8 місяців тому +1

    Modern Who companions all seem to have to go out with some kind of BANG. Classic Doctor Who would've drop off Sarah Jane at the wrong bus stop or Harry would say "No thanks, Doctor, I'm going to stay where I am." It might feel good for an exiting character to have a whopper of an episode, but you see how far they have to go to untangle the mess if they want to bring back a character. Maybe the next companion(s) should vote for getting dropped off at the bus station....

  • @Redboots
    @Redboots 8 місяців тому

    you know, I understand why it was the storyline rtd went with because I remember hearing tennant and tate asked to return, but it's just an unsatisfying and unnecessary resolution. in journey's end, donna's story is resolved in a way that was absolutely perfect for the character, and we even got an epilogue of sorts in the end of time. I feel like the dissatisfaction comes from a failure to understand that the emotional impact of donna's story comes from the tragedy that she can't remember her travels, and that if what happened simply hadn't, the story would lose its impact. however, in order to facilitate the story rtd decided to go with for the trilogy, we essentially get something that could've happened fifteen years prior which is deeply unsatisfying on a character growth level, both in terms of it happening then and now since it is poor writing, handwavy, and unsatisfying storytelling.
    and then we reach the actual 'letting go'. I feel like if you're going to reference events that have been shown in the show or in prominent extended media, you need to have actually engaged with the stories where those events happened. and I don't think rtd did that for thirteen, or worse, decided to ignore one of thirteen's defining character traits to essentially virtue signal at the audience, which whether or not it was done for the right reasons is simply poor writing and disrespectful towards an entire era. thirteen would not let go! it's not even that dr who was a male-presenting time lord as tenthree/fourteen, it's the assumption that because thirteen was female-presenting she would've had the emotional capacity to understand how to let it go. this isn't even getting into how, yeah, it IS incredibly lazy and a wasted opportunity to create a proper driving thread throughout the trilogy
    and I agree that it's basically a continuation of the moffat-era reluctance to show consequences or permanently killing off a character, so it's baffling. and I can't help but bring up how rtd used 'dr who settles down with a companion into Normal Life and lives happy domestic bliss with his own tardis' as a reward again, and I'm annoyed so much by that fact that I will make my own video discussing why it sucks for various reasons. but yeah, it's poor writing and poor storytelling that undoes an already emotionally impactful and iconic companion departure in exchange for weak, flimsy, and frankly boring and stock-standard feel-good happily ever after.

  • @Tulf42
    @Tulf42 8 місяців тому +1

    As Harbo reflected on in his video essay about TV shows sabotaging themselves, it is a shame that writers have to alter their planned perfect endings when asked to write for another series, as requested by the distributors to rake in the money and ratings, but it's also a shame the time and effort isn't given to a writer to create a suitable comeback to that ending that will satisfy most people to allow the story to continue.

  • @stratuvarious8547
    @stratuvarious8547 8 місяців тому +1

    Since his return, RTD just seems to be lazy, like he doesn't have the same passion he did in his first run. That makes me feel really sad. If he didn't have the same drive and energy he did before, he shouldn't have returned. Without a showrunner with excitement, drive and energy, it'll be like having a showrunner who wants to try to write everything himself but without the skill to back it up.

  • @mathieuleader8601
    @mathieuleader8601 8 місяців тому

    If I was RTD I would have the excess time lord energy causing the fabric of spacetime to rip open thus allowing the Toymaker to enter mainstream reality

  • @gyszabolcs
    @gyszabolcs 8 місяців тому

    off the star beast could have ended an "I don't wana go..." and then no not yet.
    And at the end when 14 get shoot then it could say to Donna I can't I'm too tired... Donna then hugs him and transfers the energy left in her. Which then could cause the bigeneration if it must.
    Rose should have escaped with the family...

  • @porkins1202
    @porkins1202 8 місяців тому +1

    I just cant get over the whole Davros not being in a "wheelchair" because it might be offensive. The character was literally thousands of years old, even getting to the point of growing Daleks off his own flesh. I think everyone viewed it as a life support machine keeping a literal corpse alive.
    The problem is that (*rolls eyes* another one saying it) Woke writing is inherently just lazy, it just feels like it has to pander and artificially insert characters of various backgrounds rather than naturally introduce them. The Davros changes, the metacrisis resolution and the doctor implying he's gay (which Tennants version of the doctor spent the remainder of his run being sad about losing rose. 11 and 12 with River Song, and 13 the hints of the romance with Yaz). Alot of things just seem to come out of nowhere, which are affecting the show. For Sci-fi to work it needs to have ground rules or it just becomes Fantasy, Dr Who has always had a lot of "Timey Wimey" for some events or a retcon. But it feels like the show is breaking too many rules without establishing how or why.
    Im sure if Russel T Davis were to apply his writing as it is now to a fantasy show then it would be a hit and things would be more accepted, but the way it stands - and the fact they have said they want to lean into fantasy more. I feel like the show is going to falter and slowly lose relevance.

  • @andygozzo72
    @andygozzo72 8 місяців тому +2

    he couldnt have 'wiped' her mind , if he had, theres no way she couldve remembered anything at any time, or passed anything on to rose...it wasnt a 'wipe. but some sort of memory block/lock .....

  • @Sigurd-r5
    @Sigurd-r5 6 місяців тому

    It all kind of makes sense in a vague way and now it's over so whatever it's outta the way and we're onto the new Doctor and stuff! Great days! Hopefully.

  • @optimistic5467
    @optimistic5467 8 місяців тому

    Ngl I love happy convenient endings these days. I feel since game of thrones the majority of people expect every single ending to be totally tragic and make them depressed for a week but the nice simple deux ex machina endings are just feel good :)

  • @unorthodoxbox
    @unorthodoxbox 8 місяців тому +1

    RTD even during his first era is just not good at resolutions. He does great character work, great set ups but in most cases just has the major threats waved away which to me ruins the presence of villains and in this case Donna’s arc.
    This is one of my biggest reasons for stepping away from his new era after The Star Beast and Wild Blue Yonder, waiting for reviews because I am genuinely not in the mood for more deus ex machinas.
    My own What If for these specials is it would’ve been a serialised story. The Toymaker early on toying with the Doctor and Donna. Donna being a major casualty because A) The Doctor’s Guilt and B) Donna and her family at this point are innocent bystanders caught in something that only Silvia and Wilf understand so in my mind Silvia and Rose become temporary companions. Imagine that dynamic. Silvia stepping up to protect her daughter and granddaughter and Rose getting pulled in because of her curiosity.

  • @Knighttt662
    @Knighttt662 8 місяців тому

    People often complain that Moffat era Comapanions never face consequences.
    Welp now, every single RTD companion has also got a happy ending.
    With two of them having their own David Tennant.

  • @AshJammy
    @AshJammy 8 місяців тому +1

    I honestly wouldn't have been mad if the doctor used his prize from the toy maker to stop the metacrisis... but he did need a new TARDIS... for some reason.

  • @q16beats95
    @q16beats95 8 місяців тому

    yo this comment isn't bout the video but i was just wondering if you would ever do a video ranking the series or anything like just would be cool to get your take and see where you would put everything on a scale where they're all together anyways great vid mate love the analysis even thou i think blue yonder is better then u do

  • @genuwine21
    @genuwine21 8 місяців тому +1

    For me The Star Beast felt like it could have been either longer or two different episodes. Watching it I felt it didn't work for me because there wasn't time given to dwell on everything it all happened so fast to squeeze into an hour. Imagine if Wild Blue Yonder went into more because that was an episode so focused on the Doctor and Donna it would have worked better as the place to need the DoctorDonna and the place where they could have addressed a solution without it feeling too forced if The starbeast ended with the activation of DoctorDonna but she had a little longer before she burned out. One last adventure, maybe with Rose and they could have done some of the stuff they did instead in Wild Blue Yonder but have an opportunity to go into Rose's backstory more since the creature was psychic reading their minds.

  • @catgonzalez6979
    @catgonzalez6979 8 місяців тому +1

    As someone else once said, the worst doctor who writer is always the current one.

  • @craiglee3048
    @craiglee3048 8 місяців тому +1

    One thing that certainly confuses me is that Rose supposedly just knows how to “let go” of the metacrisis because of being female and all, but since Rose isn’t actually female, how is that possible? Seriously, does just looking like a woman give you “female intuition”? I’m pretty sure things don’t work like that but whatever; this just seems like RTD sacrificing story over Message.

    • @mrdr0161
      @mrdr0161 7 місяців тому

      Rose is female. Transphobe.

  • @PetePiper892
    @PetePiper892 8 місяців тому +1

    I would have loved if the additional meta crisis energy contributed to the bi-generation, rather than both of them just conveniently being accepted.

  • @maydarichoybonov170
    @maydarichoybonov170 3 місяці тому

    meanwhile genshin: makes the whole world AND EVEN THE GAME ITSELF forget about Rukkhadevata except the mc, replacing every mention of her IN THE GAME and STICKING TO IT.

  • @bodkimalone
    @bodkimalone 5 місяців тому

    I would have rewritten it as rose and donna still dying and the game with the toymaker and bi generation meant 1. 10 wishes donna not to die/to have them no longer have the time lord stuff in their heads 2.ncuti banishes the toymaker and 3.since rose and donna are doctor donna during the game timey wimey rules allow for them being there at the time to create second tardis shenannigans and the last wish from rose/donna (since both have metacrisis energy) can be something simple like getting the lottery money back (probably more a donna thing) idk ik this seems like a poor hindsight thing that seems just as if not more convoluted and alternatively since it’s about letting go,killing off donna and maybe rose or we can leave the metacrisis out of her,either way rewriting it so donna dies,family is upset and grieves,ncuti gives his speech,that scene at the table instead of being jolly is very tense and ends on being all about acceptance,grief and how life goes on..idk this is a very spur of the moment comment which is made only 5 mins into the video so yeah.

  • @treefrog1018
    @treefrog1018 8 місяців тому

    I am a HUGE Doctor/Donna fan and I was ALL FOR her coming back and RTD finding a way to save her. I love that the Metacrisis passed down to her children. That is perfect.
    Let it go? That's Elsa's line, not yours.

  • @bootstrapparadox8656
    @bootstrapparadox8656 8 місяців тому

    You could possibly even see RTD’s writing flaws in Wild Blue Yonder (the best episode of the trilogy, in my opinion). When the Not-Doctor is faster to stop the robot, the real Doctor just exclaims that the Not-Doctor is going to fail and the Tardis just materializes for our heroes to escape.

  • @RichardFiggs
    @RichardFiggs 8 місяців тому

    I think deep down the doctor part of Donna should've working on a way to save getting her memories back and saving herself, working subconsciously with that human part, not having anything to do with her being female. Just human imagination working with the timelord part to resolve her plight. I also think that RTD was too busy platforming commentary and not focusing on a good sci-fi story. I am really sad about what's become of Doctor Who. I just can't watch it anymore . And I really loved Doctor Who.

  • @TheRealBGregz
    @TheRealBGregz 8 місяців тому

    “The Metacrisis Resolution” sounds like an episode of The Big Bang Theory 😆

  • @ExpiredPorridge
    @ExpiredPorridge 8 місяців тому +1

    side note, the way they shoehorned trans politics into the episode made me cringe so hard. that line 'I finally know who I am' almost made me close iplayer on the spot. I'm not transphobic, I couldn't care less what someone else identifies as, but the writing and delivery of it was... just bad

  • @selvahechicera4292
    @selvahechicera4292 7 місяців тому

    David Tennant should nt have returned confused as to why he had the same face. Tennant should have arrived and said "I have unfinished business. Donna."

  • @ZMYaro
    @ZMYaro 8 місяців тому +2

    I took it as Davies commenting a little on people (especially businessmen and politicians) who want whatever power they can and feel the need to hold on to it at all costs, even when it harms them or people they care about, when they could just let it go. But I agree the way he went about it probably could have used another draft or two before shooting.

  • @MightyElemental
    @MightyElemental 8 місяців тому

    RTD's modern writing has just revealed existing issues in his old series for me :/
    I used to really like his writing, but now I'm not sure.

  • @Johnson_2022
    @Johnson_2022 8 місяців тому +1

    Generally I would agree it was handled very poorly quite simply due to the lack of any foreshadowing in the slightest and how David had three specials worth of time to work with.
    You could have the Daughter acting in a way that resembled series 4 Donna with the Mother noticing (establishing the link between them for veiwers). Donna steadily becoming more of an active problem solver over the episode (showing that the events are meaningful effecting her but something has obviously changed).
    You still have the same climax of them working together near the end but instead just rationalise the daughter as the receptical (linking back to the idea that caused this thing in the first place).

  • @drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303
    @drakeconsumerofsoulsandche4303 8 місяців тому +1

    I feel like star beast needed to be split in 2. Have part 1 be about rose and the meep, then when it shows its true colours you have a "infiltrate the enemy" episode where you actually stops the meep
    Also i liked the message of the dialogue, but sometimes it felt really clunky

  • @ftumschk
    @ftumschk 8 місяців тому

    There is a genuine word "metaCRASIS", which means the blending of different biological elements or physical essences, which is basically what the DoctorDonna is when you think about it. The biggest "metacrisis mistake" IMHO is either that Davies had encountered the word "metacrasis" and mis-remembered/mis-spelt it, or he came up with the similar word "metacrisis" by sheer coincidence. Whatever, "metacrisis" doesn't really make sense in its own right. We know what a "crisis" is - a dangerous/emergency situation - so what on Earth a METAcrisis might be is anyone's guess. Whatever it might mean, it doesn't describe the blending of human and Timelord as well as "metacrasis" would.

    • @CineScarborough
      @CineScarborough 8 місяців тому

      Metacrasis doesn't sound right. If there is a genuine word, then metacrisis should instead replace it.

    • @ftumschk
      @ftumschk 8 місяців тому

      @@CineScarborough A "crisis" can't be be "meta" - it's either a real crisis or it isn't. Even within the context of Doctor Who, metacrisis doesn't make much sense in describing the DoctorDonna, who is after all an amalgam, a "hybrid", a fusion of biological essences. There are lots of words RTD could have chosen, so why he had to invent another, nonsensical, one is baffling. Especially when there's a real word, "metacrasis", which would have done the trick... whether we like the sound of it or not.

    • @CineScarborough
      @CineScarborough 8 місяців тому

      @@ftumschk Personally I'm seriously considering starting a petition to change the official spelling of Metacrasis in the Oxford English Dictionary to Metacrisis.

  • @claudius3359
    @claudius3359 8 місяців тому

    I agree 100% with you.Even if we don't talk from the 'political aspect',the resolve was anti-climactic and disappoints people who followed the lore since 10th's era.

  • @juliushernandezg
    @juliushernandezg 8 місяців тому

    With only three episodes, Russell T. Davies demonstrated that the problem was Chibnall's lack of imagination.
    And I only see people here trying to show and solve an inexistent problem. Doctor Who is back, and for good!

  • @robertfitzjohn4755
    @robertfitzjohn4755 8 місяців тому

    The ending of the Toymaker episode was equally anticlimatic. How do you defeat a godlike being? Oh, he fumbles a catch. Pffft!

    • @mrdr0161
      @mrdr0161 7 місяців тому

      Well that's how the Toymaker works. Challenge him to a game. If he loses, he loses and that's it.

  • @GoddessOfWhim2003
    @GoddessOfWhim2003 8 місяців тому +1

    i'm gonna just stop after 12 and pretend none of this ever happened

    • @pettytyrant2720
      @pettytyrant2720 8 місяців тому +2

      In my head cannon the show went off the air after 12 and it was left ambiguous as to what the Doctor decided, to regenerate or not.

    • @GoddessOfWhim2003
      @GoddessOfWhim2003 8 місяців тому +1

      @@pettytyrant2720 i accept your head canon

    • @pettytyrant2720
      @pettytyrant2720 8 місяців тому +1

      @@GoddessOfWhim2003 It's such a good point to have a break in my view - the Master and Doctors stories are complete (more head cannon, Missy is the final incarnation of the Master).

  • @CinescopeLTD
    @CinescopeLTD 8 місяців тому

    I think you’re very wrong actually, if it was aimed just at doctor who fans then yeah of course drag the meta crisis out for the 3 episodes because they’re the only ones that’s going to remember but for him to try and recapture the “golden age” of series 4 he needs to resolve the meta crisis as soon as possible because it’s aimed at a general audience. And to say he did with no skill and little thought is wrong, he hasn’t spent 15 years thinking about Doctor Who he’s been working on so much more than that and thought his who days were way behind him. Hence he resolved it quickly for a general audience in a “satisfying way” to get m new audience ready for Ncuti. I’m sorry I love your reviews but this missed the mark. If you want just the stuff aimed at the doctor who audience then big finish is the way to go, this needs to be aimed at the general audience which he did and to great success cause the audience clearly stuck around

  • @RedimusStudios
    @RedimusStudios 8 місяців тому

    I'll be honest, s4 was a low point in the series (at the time) for me, with what felt like several recycled stories and a companion I didn't really like very much.
    Add to that RTD ending syndrome, and I had my worries despite the build up to the finale (Turn Left) being really good.
    And I wasn't wrong, I still really dislike the s4 finale, in no small part because I hated the whole concept and execution of the metacrisis.
    As the years have gone on, I've grown to like, if not love, Donna Noble, and was open to a little more of her.
    Then RTD shits the bed with the whole Metacrisis narrative (again), and decides we haven't got enough David Tennants running around, so gives us *another* metastasis level peice of lore crunching in the third episode....
    It's a good thing his writing is still entertaining, and Ncuti Gatwa has been excellent so far....

  • @cru-say3990
    @cru-say3990 8 місяців тому +1

    Someone should rewrite the specials to address these issues

  • @DWN037
    @DWN037 8 місяців тому

    3:59 I was half asleep watching this and for a good few seconds thought that was MatPat

  • @shmikex
    @shmikex 8 місяців тому

    Thank you for calling out the clothes changing! Considering when 15 showed up it was 14's outfit split, it made sense there. It doesn't make sense here.

  • @sail4170
    @sail4170 8 місяців тому +1

    Mans doesn’t like endings….

  • @STEVEBINNION1
    @STEVEBINNION1 5 місяців тому +1

    They are just pissing on it all now 🌈

  • @thunberbolttwo3953
    @thunberbolttwo3953 8 місяців тому

    Donating her lotery winings to charity. LOL no one would do that.

  • @TheDoctorwho-er
    @TheDoctorwho-er 3 місяці тому

    Random thought- what if the meta crisis, if it was resolved in the giggle, was the factor that caused bi-generation?

  • @mgthestrange9098
    @mgthestrange9098 7 місяців тому

    7:16 * asterisk, not Asterix. He’s the main character in a series of fantastic Belgian comics. Sorry for being a grammar nazi, I just always feel the urge to correct that particular mistake. Fantastic video as always! ❤️

  • @MiTaReX
    @MiTaReX 8 місяців тому

    Hot take: I enjoyed Chibnall's era more than these specials.
    Here, I said it.

  • @avocadothecat
    @avocadothecat 8 місяців тому

    I do wish someone puts that missed plot potential in a 50k words fanfiction ngl.
    I wanna read that. Good plot.

  • @entertain7us148
    @entertain7us148 8 місяців тому

    When I first watched this episode, it really seemed that rose saved the day with the power of being non binary…. Which was confusing, since she was established as a binary trans woman…

    • @Gabbagool86
      @Gabbagool86 8 місяців тому +1

      They used these terms like buzz words to entice in a new generation of viewers or something.

  • @shinyxstar
    @shinyxstar 8 місяців тому

    Stop! stop! stop! I don't believe all of this hate is necessary, I mean sure the 60th specials weren't as good as we all had hoped, well to me they were to some extent. But that's because I firmly believe the story isn't over yet between Donna and the Doctor, I personally believe the bi generation has made David Tennant become the master and the Doctor Donna story and also the bad wolf story isn't finished yet, RTD will do what he does best. Surprise YOU, stop hating it after only 4 episodes and let's just see what "series 1" will bring.

  • @kylenetherwood8734
    @kylenetherwood8734 8 місяців тому

    This is just something that a male presenting UA-camr wouldn't understand

    • @Gabbagool86
      @Gabbagool86 8 місяців тому

      They just don't know how to let go of things. Ok that works too well considering the channels focus.

  • @joeundrenoikue1413
    @joeundrenoikue1413 7 місяців тому

    Genuinely think it was RTD’s (albeit silly) way of dealing with the fact that Rose & Donna can ‘let it go’ because they’re women and men cannot ever let anything go haha aren’t men just awful - but they can’t go ‘well the Doctor should’ve thought of that solution’ sooooooo they just dismiss it as him being a man, which RTD (and the viewer) know he isn’t, as he was just a woman. So you end up with RTD saying ‘you couldn’t have come up with this woman-only solution as you’re a man, but not a man, but you’re a man now …. You’re male presenting!’ And voila it’s dumb!! Hate when you can see the writers cogs turning in the dialogue. Like just think about it for two more seconds Russel!

  • @R.senals_Arsenal
    @R.senals_Arsenal 8 місяців тому +2

    11:48 your entire problem with the build up and the hype is ridiculous. The display meal never looks the same as the actual meal. Most of the hype over the resolution was down to fandom. This is no better than being upset with Wild Blue Yonder cause it didn't have fanwank cameos all throughout. You're better than this lazy criticism point made about build-up.

  • @eldrey0
    @eldrey0 8 місяців тому

    I totally agree and still idc, the episode was very good and i can't believe it's been a month and people are still worried about a simple line from a trangender girl, grow up....

  • @CashelOConnolly
    @CashelOConnolly 8 місяців тому +6

    I really dislike the transphobia surrounding the anniversary specials. Also certain so called Doctor Who fan channels hating on Doctor Who for being ‘WOKE’ these channels (always run by greasy haired 20 something guys,who look like they’ve never been laid) would like Doctor Who to go back to the Hartnell days 🙄
    I disliked the 60th anniversary specials because they weren’t celebrating 60 years of Who but the Tennant/Noble era. Also the storylines were dross 🔷🔷🔷🔷🔷🔷

    • @dr.mund0339
      @dr.mund0339 8 місяців тому

      Yes people who took issue with the show pushing Trans agendas on kids are all greasy haired 20 somethings who are trabsphobes lol

    • @Gabbagool86
      @Gabbagool86 8 місяців тому

      Yeah it's a shame the BBC hide behind that tired excuse but anything is preferable to saying RTD is a hack

    • @PurpleBarnIndrustry
      @PurpleBarnIndrustry 8 місяців тому +6

      I agree. Personally I also really hated the line about the Doctor not understanding due to being a male-presenting time lord. To me the line felt like a reinforcement of gender conformity and roles, and was a rather offensive poke toward people who fall between the lines of masculine and feminine while still presenting one way or another.

    • @dr.mund0339
      @dr.mund0339 8 місяців тому +3

      @@PurpleBarnIndrustry I find your take interesting because to me the line male presenting. Was ment to be inclusive.. because if they said you wouldn't understand because your a man then that's transphobic.. to me it's seems like an attempt to be pro Trans.. but you took it as conforming gender roles.. lol seems like a perfect example of why this stuff shouldn't be in a show about a time teavling alien lol
      People like me who have 0 interest in gender polotics didn't like it and people like you didn't like it lol maybe they should get back to sum timey wimey stuff lol

    • @PurpleBarnIndrustry
      @PurpleBarnIndrustry 8 місяців тому +3

      @dr.mund0339 100% agree that they should focus on what makes the show good and let the social commentary come from that, not force it in to cover bad writing. I also agree that their intent was likely to be pro trans. I am a cis male, but I see both "masculine" and "feminine" traits in myself. Some friends have told me they suspect me to be trans or that I'm an egg, but I truly feel comfortable and happy as a man. That said, I don't think that any character traits should be assumed based on if a character is male presenting or female presenting. There is always the masculine in the feminine, and the feminine in the masculine. Reducing people down to their physical presentation is some identity politics bollucks that should be left behind with tribalism. It is assuming things about a person based on their appearance, and we all know what assuming does.

  • @SciFiGuy72
    @SciFiGuy72 8 місяців тому

    Doctor Who ended, unfairly imo, on November 22, 1989. Everything since is glorified overhyped fan fiction.

  • @fussiesthydra9216
    @fussiesthydra9216 8 місяців тому +1

    Was absolutely terrible. It was only their for Woke PC propaganda. She shouts “Binary Binary Binary” at the end of Season 4 because of Binary code not because of morons who don’t know there’s only 2 Genders male and female. Story wise I can understand the metacrisis going down into her son Jason but tbh she should have never got her memory’s back as it was sad the end of S4 and heart wrenching. Then it’s just get them bk and forget it happened. You say the 1st RTD Era had odd endings and while I get your point they were well done this wasn’t it was just let’s fix Donna and use it to lecture people. If I’m honest that was the worst of the 3 specials and RTD is just here to push messages not story.

  • @Doctor_What63
    @Doctor_What63 8 місяців тому +76

    Random thought, what if the Doctor absorbed the metacrisis energy to save Donna - similar to Series 1 I guess - but by absorbing another Timelord mind then causes the Bi-Generation. Not enough to fully kill 14, but 1 timelord can’t have 2 minds, hence the Bi-Generation. Would make the Bi-generation less of the random gimmick that it was, and an interesting way to resolve the metacrisis which should have been the story arc for the 3 specials

    • @MarkMichalowski
      @MarkMichalowski 8 місяців тому +14

      Aw, bugger - you beat me to it by three minutes. THREE MINUTES!! LOL ;-)

    • @Doctor_What63
      @Doctor_What63 8 місяців тому +4

      @@MarkMichalowski great minds haha

    • @StarKhan
      @StarKhan 8 місяців тому +7

      Fantastic idea

    • @markpostgate2551
      @markpostgate2551 8 місяців тому +4

      Genius.

    • @furiousfigures8714
      @furiousfigures8714 8 місяців тому +3

      Can we get you writing Doctor Who?

  • @shmikex
    @shmikex 8 місяців тому +122

    The "male-presenting timelord" line was pure rubbish, considering 14's last incarnation was a female-presenting timelord.

    • @Knighttt662
      @Knighttt662 8 місяців тому +20

      And the fact that Wild Blue Yonder establishes that Donna has The Doctor's memories. Which means she knew that one day ago he was a woman.
      I am pretty sure that line was just there to upset people and improve engagement, since there is nothing like bad publicity

    • @HuntingViolets
      @HuntingViolets 7 місяців тому +1

      @@Knighttt662 It's kind of ambiguous whether she has his memories now, because she says it's too much for her and it was the copy that talked to him about having his memories (which could have been gotten from his mind). Unless Donna is lying, which is the ambiguous part, she hasn't retained much of his memory at all. Although she would have had them during "The Star Beast," true.

    • @michele219
      @michele219 7 місяців тому +1

      And considering the last words of 12 were “Doctor, I let you go”

    • @swordseye2
      @swordseye2 7 місяців тому +1

      @@Knighttt662 Honestly that line made me so angry that I still haven't watched and still am hesitant to watch the rest of the specials

  • @michaelfraser1073
    @michaelfraser1073 8 місяців тому +362

    I think the main problem is that RTD clearly wanted to quickly get it out of the way to get the old Doctor/Donna relationship back, so he could keep pretending it was the glory days of 2009 again. The core flaw of the 60th anniversary specials is how they desperately pander to nostalgia to try and win back old fans.

    • @michaelfraser1073
      @michaelfraser1073 8 місяців тому +30

      also, personally, I wish RTD had copied Moffat when Moffat implied the Doctor knew freezing Gallifrey would work because he spent hundreds of years thinking of a solution.

    • @robbiefl2001
      @robbiefl2001 8 місяців тому +43

      Unfortunately I think the nostalgia pandering was the ONLY solution to bring any sort of viewership back. Chibnall ruined the image of DW that badly that most people wouldn't have come back for Ncuti's Doctor unless they saw that Russell could still handle DW effectively, and bringing David back was a good way to do this without affecting the new Doctor

    • @Doctor_What63
      @Doctor_What63 8 місяців тому +13

      I’d have much preferred them to explore their relationship as the Doctor Donna, would have been something new and exciting rather than trying to give us a rehash of their pre-metacrisis relationship

    • @Jack-zz7bc
      @Jack-zz7bc 8 місяців тому +7

      Rushing companion relationships also feels like the biggest problem with Ruby as well

    • @ishathakor
      @ishathakor 8 місяців тому +13

      honestly all 3 of the 60th anniversary specials are literally just. season 4 part 2. there's nothing anniversary-like about it

  • @Xtraflux
    @Xtraflux 8 місяців тому +51

    Tbh I feel like if they wanted to tie in to the letting go theme Donna could’ve been like “Unlike you I’ve spent all this time learning to settle down and let go” which wouldn’t have come to Donna’s mind in s4 because she was equally obsessed with adventure as the doctor at the time

  • @dataweaver
    @dataweaver 8 місяців тому +74

    I think the later bigeneration was a similar issue: he wanted to give the 10th/14th Doctor a “happy ending” so much that he skipped the rules of proper dramatic beats.

    • @empressfrozentoes5285
      @empressfrozentoes5285 8 місяців тому +15

      this is exactly how I felt watching it. I never cared much for the star beast cause it was a little too stupid for my liking, but the giggle was actually really good up until that god awful "everybody lives!" ending. the 60th anniversary was just rife was unsatisfactory endings to plot threads, at least wild blue yonder escaped that fate

  • @redsquirrel724
    @redsquirrel724 8 місяців тому +26

    My idea. Sorry for the paragraph:
    Considering how ridiculous the whole the meta crisis resolution and Bi-Regeneration seemed, I really don't get why the meta-crisis couldn't have been the reason FOR the Bi-Regeneration. The Meta-Crisis not killing Donna straight away because some of it has been passed down to Rose isn't an awful idea and makes sense somewhat from a reproductive standpoint. But like you said it would've worked for it to stay lingering over them both. Maybe even a better reason for why the Doctor figures out the Not Thing in 'Wild Blue Yonder' isn't the real Donna, because the meta-crisis is so powerful it can't replicate it. Then in 'The Giggle' the Doctor tells Donna he doesn't know if he could save her this time and she says maybe this time she'll save him. They could've run with that. After the Toymaker shoots 14 as he regenerates it could be as Donna is finally beginning to burn up. She hugs him and the physical touch as he's regenerating, like with the hand in 'Journey's End', could cause the Doctor to take in the Meta-crisis energy and leave him with 2 Timelord brains in his head which is too much for even him. But because he can regenerate it causes the rare Bi-regeneration. Donna is saved as a result with her memories and 15 comes in and plays the Toymaker at the final game 1 v 1. This also solidifies Donna's importance as the most important women in all of creation and why they always met each other as "Destiny". 14 could finally retire as he did with his best friend and 15 could go off in the TARDIS.
    Equally for a less convoluted solution 15's prize for winning could've just been for meta-crisis to be fixed and Donna live with her memories. But I prefer the first idea.

    • @benstevens44
      @benstevens44 8 місяців тому +6

      Hmm... what if Donna touching a regenerating 14 releases the metacrisis energy and basically creates a whole new incarnation, and the paradox is what causes the bigeneration?
      Presume there's a "natural" version of events where 13 regenerated directly into 15, as we'd expected going into that finale. It plays out basically as the 60th anniversary did, but with the 15th Doctor instead of the 14th, and with the whole letting go of the metacrisis thing not happening in The Star Beast.
      Flash forward to The Giggle, and the Toymaker shoots the Doctor with the supervillain laser. The Doctor begins to regenerate. Donna collapses - this is the point where the metacrisis energy is about to burn her up. In desperation, she reaches out, her hand touches the Doctor's... and things break.
      The metacrisis was the 10th Doctor, all bundled up and copied into Donna Noble's head (and a spare body but let's ignore that part.) That energy, that essence, gets released into a proper regeneration, and it creates a new regeneration, one that was never supposed to happen. The 14th Doctor is created in the image of the 10th.
      But the metacrisis doesn't flow in only one direction. It ripples backward, down the Doctor's timestream. The new incarnation of the Doctor is created, not at the moment of regeneration in The Giggle... but back at the moment that 13 should have become what is now 15.
      The time-displaced 14th Doctor now exists through the events of The Star Beast, Wild Blue Yonder, and The Giggle; the version where 15 did all this is overwritten. The Toymaker now causes 14 to regenerate. Donna reaches out. A paradox is formed - 14 is now a part of the event that creates 14.
      The paradox is resolved by the regeneration becoming a bigeneration, as the two incarnations of the Doctor who are meant to exist at this moment now try to occupy the same space-time. What's left of the metacrisis energy is enough that it allows 14 to return from the brink of death; 14 has not regenerated into 15 (yet). At some point in 14's future, he will regenerate into 15, who will be pulled back to this moment, a bit irate and confused.
      Meanwhile, Donna is spared. The metacrisis energy released into the Doctor's regeneration, she's just Donna Noble again - with all the memories she should always have had, and maybe just a tiny spark of that old Time Lord consciousness; she'll never be the Doctor-Donna again, but she can still remember, still understand what being the Doctor really is and what it means.
      Rest of the episode continues as written, why bother to change it; the TARDIS isn't duplicated, the "extra" one is just snatched out of time at the same point 15 was.
      We get an explanation for 14, Donna's brain gets to be a little more dramatic, 15 doesn't just suddenly come out of nowhere as a second Doctor with years of therapy he shouldn't have had if he followed 14 at that exact moment in time.

    • @SageWon-1aussie
      @SageWon-1aussie 8 місяців тому +3

      I had a similar idea while watching this VOD.
      WBY could have happened because Donna tried to use her Timelord memories to operate the Tardis. The No-things could have let slip that the metacrisis was not resolved by "letting go", just delayed. The Toymaker could have puppet showed Donna burning up from the metacrisis, pushing the Doctor into overdrive. The Doctor gets distracted by the metacrisis, which allows the Toymaker to make the fatal strike. The Doctor uses their regeneration phase to absorb the metacrisis energy, saving Donna but causing the Bi-regeneration. The 15th Doctor points out the Toymaker lied and cheated bringing about the Toymaker's defeat though a metaphysical crisis. The 14th Doctor has to stay with the Noble family to retire and do therapy because the 15th Doctor takes the Tardis.
      This leaves a storyline thread (is Rose Noble still at risk from the metacrisis?) for later episodes to explore. Doesn't even require changing "The Star Beast" in any particular way.
      I'm angry with this special because they didn't bother trying to make the pseudo science sound scientific. "Scatterfry the positronics" kinda broke me, and nobody googled the size of London. 25 square miles? Try 700 mate.

    • @yospidey0078
      @yospidey0078 5 місяців тому +1

      Okay why aren't you writing the show? This is really good, and it makes more sense.

  • @Renfield286
    @Renfield286 8 місяців тому +13

    I am so glad that RTDs problem with endings is something that someone else has noticed and not just me being overly nit picky about a family TV show.
    I'm not a big fan of RTDs writing and I always seem to prefer the episodes where he is the show runner and he lets other folks write the actual episode, just focusing on overarching plots.
    And I agree, Donna shouldn't have been brought back as it does completely cheapen the whole arc.
    And also, such a wasted opportunity for an interesting story.
    The second "special" just felt like filler.