Moana was lost, unsure of her role, and during the journey she discovered her identity (and rediscovered the forgotten identity of her whole tribe). She ran away from responsibility to come back as a new leader. That's hell of a transformation if you ask me.
I’m still learning a lot, but I see the Amazon as a sub-type between the Maiden and the Mother. Adopting masculine traits is a rejection of the Maiden. The Amazon’s aggression is framed almost identically to how I’d describe “mama bear” energy. Those I know who embody this archetype most are usually estranged from the Maiden and Mother; they pursue the Hero’s Journey and cannot access the Heroine’s Journey.
I think you guys miss the point. Artemis is not a “bad-ass” in the way you describe her. You say she probably gets into the army or into sports and show the Kill Bill example. Sorry but that is a bunch of nonsense. She is not an aggressive archetype. Artemis is an archetype that represents a great balance of feminine and masculine traits, she is not “dude-ish”. The archetype talks about her strength of will, self reliance, assertiveness, independence in all aspects ( physically, emotionally, etc) and overall purity. She is not “more close to the guys and likes to do guys things”. She is a moon goddess and therefore she is a loner- again pointing to her independence, self reliance and even mysterious nature. Her being by herself is not a “negative shadow” trait, it’s part of her essence. She doesn’t search for external validation. She is indifferent to the male gaze or gratification and punishes those who will see her unveiled. She has will power of her own therefore she doesn’t need to marry because she is that to herself in herself. Artemis is complete in and of herself and that’s why she is “pure” and “virgin”. She doesn’t go in competition with guys and tries to show she is just as good as them because what she is doesn’t stem from the ego. She isn’t loud. It’s not about her being almost a dude, but about HOW she goes after her target, whatever that may be. The arrow- her will in other words- is piercing unmistakably whatever her target is, and that is her masculine trait perfectly integrated. Perfect will, laser focus, all on her own. That is her masculine aspect, not the fact that she hangs around guys over girls. What the heck! She is always surrounded by animals which obey her, meaning she dominates the bestial nature, who is under her authority and will. The unconscious elements are integrated in other words. She is perfectly aware and self sufficient. She lives in the woods( the unconscious) and dominates it without force, but with clarity and naturalness. The characters in books and movies can definitely point to the archetype but they are not THE archetype. They are on a journey to integrate the archetype, to find the assertiveness and will power that Artemis has. Artemis represent the SELF in the psyche, balanced perfectly between the opposites. *And Hermione is all about the mind and intellect, I thought that was obvious. She is going in an Athena direction if you may, not Artemis.
Celie from the "Colour Purple" is a great example of a female character who goes through a transformative journey. Really loving this series. Thanks for sharing
There's actually a study that places the archetypes in a similar, but a bit different order: Witch -> Amazon -> Lover -> Mother -> Queen. (from the book: Vasilets, T. B., Man and Woman: Secret of Divine Marriage, Rech, Saint Petersburg 2010.) The Witch is in the bottom as it represents basic internal qualities of women and manifests in all other archetypes via the knowledge and intuition it provides.
Moana - In regards to sailing she was being caged by her father (who was kind of playing the dark mother archetype) keeping her from learning the skills needed to operate with sovereignty in the world. I mean, it was a freakin' island.
Korra from avatar (legend of korra) goes through a major transformation! The series has many mistakes but korras journey is still good. She starts out as a total amazon, that buff girl that just wants to fight and be a hero and going on her hero journey. At first it looks like she won't be able to get that journey but when it finally comes it eventually leads her more invert. Her biggest weakness is that she is not very spiritual or even open for these things. Wich shows trough her struggles with airbending and the spiritual world, as her story leads her inward and into understanding and into a more clam mind she is able to complete her journey and mature into being the avatar her world needs.
7:45+ isn't this a hint of psychopathy if not more? I do see a distinction however as all overbearing personas are not psychopathic. Xena was definitely on my radar for this, from my memory I felt like she embodied a better balance of male and female. this may be a sideline but for female warriors in TV/movies they are often depicted as clean cut warriors in their fighting style, a clean cut feminine dance of moments no matter how many targets they disable Charlize is a good example of this. Very rarely at all is a female warrior brutish or tapping into full bouts of raw brutish energy- even if they still embody a 'feminine'/ female frame. Or if woman is not clean cut, her fighting style is mildly loutish, not embodying the brute force energy a female warrior would definitely have ability to tap into. All of this is to say, I think the female warrior archetype is very underdeveloped compared to what it could be, to be considered authentic.
Much appreciate you both. Have you considered an alternative to Patreon? I’d like to offer support but I just can’t get behind Patreon and all the censorship
But is the heroine's journey the same as the hero's? Does/should their evolution follow the same path? I think there is maybe a different truth for the female archetypes...
I feel like the avatar series shows that really good. Aang is a boy with more feminin energy who doesn't want the journey. Korra on the other hand is a buff girl wanting her hero journey but won't get it at first and when she gets it her journey is more internal and brings her more to her feminin where she gets the power to win in the end. Aang had to get the maskulin energy. Both balanced both at the end Also the new She-ra! Total choosen one / hero story
Second video in a row that pushes into 'gender fluidity'. Really? Is there a reason that this -has- to be brought in in discussion of ARCHETYPES?! Just discuss the archetypes themselves. We get the concept of gender fluidity, but it's NOT the subject matter. Especially when the subject is the AMAZON; the FEMININE warrior. Mike is pitching 'meatball' questions at Euvie. I've yet to hear him make a solid argument about anything that didn't totally agree with what she said.
Moana was lost, unsure of her role, and during the journey she discovered her identity (and rediscovered the forgotten identity of her whole tribe). She ran away from responsibility to come back as a new leader. That's hell of a transformation if you ask me.
I’m still learning a lot, but I see the Amazon as a sub-type between the Maiden and the Mother. Adopting masculine traits is a rejection of the Maiden. The Amazon’s aggression is framed almost identically to how I’d describe “mama bear” energy. Those I know who embody this archetype most are usually estranged from the Maiden and Mother; they pursue the Hero’s Journey and cannot access the Heroine’s Journey.
Do u think she can pursue both?
I think you guys miss the point. Artemis is not a “bad-ass” in the way you describe her. You say she probably gets into the army or into sports and show the Kill Bill example. Sorry but that is a bunch of nonsense. She is not an aggressive archetype. Artemis is an archetype that represents a great balance of feminine and masculine traits, she is not “dude-ish”. The archetype talks about her strength of will, self reliance, assertiveness, independence in all aspects ( physically, emotionally, etc) and overall purity. She is not “more close to the guys and likes to do guys things”. She is a moon goddess and therefore she is a loner- again pointing to her independence, self reliance and even mysterious nature. Her being by herself is not a “negative shadow” trait, it’s part of her essence. She doesn’t search for external validation. She is indifferent to the male gaze or gratification and punishes those who will see her unveiled. She has will power of her own therefore she doesn’t need to marry because she is that to herself in herself. Artemis is complete in and of herself and that’s why she is “pure” and “virgin”. She doesn’t go in competition with guys and tries to show she is just as good as them because what she is doesn’t stem from the ego. She isn’t loud. It’s not about her being almost a dude, but about HOW she goes after her target, whatever that may be. The arrow- her will in other words- is piercing unmistakably whatever her target is, and that is her masculine trait perfectly integrated. Perfect will, laser focus, all on her own. That is her masculine aspect, not the fact that she hangs around guys over girls. What the heck! She is always surrounded by animals which obey her, meaning she dominates the bestial nature, who is under her authority and will. The unconscious elements are integrated in other words. She is perfectly aware and self sufficient. She lives in the woods( the unconscious) and dominates it without force, but with clarity and naturalness. The characters in books and movies can definitely point to the archetype but they are not THE archetype. They are on a journey to integrate the archetype, to find the assertiveness and will power that Artemis has. Artemis represent the SELF in the psyche, balanced perfectly between the opposites.
*And Hermione is all about the mind and intellect, I thought that was obvious. She is going in an Athena direction if you may, not Artemis.
Wow you nailed this can I learn more
perfect description 🙏
Celie from the "Colour Purple" is a great example of a female character who goes through a transformative journey. Really loving this series. Thanks for sharing
There's actually a study that places the archetypes in a similar, but a bit different order: Witch -> Amazon -> Lover -> Mother -> Queen. (from the book: Vasilets, T. B., Man and Woman: Secret of Divine Marriage, Rech, Saint Petersburg 2010.) The Witch is in the bottom as it represents basic internal qualities of women and manifests in all other archetypes via the knowledge and intuition it provides.
Sarah Conner’s transformation into an amazon is phenomenal.
Yes, great reference
Moana - In regards to sailing she was being caged by her father (who was kind of playing the dark mother archetype) keeping her from learning the skills needed to operate with sovereignty in the world. I mean, it was a freakin' island.
Korra from avatar (legend of korra) goes through a major transformation! The series has many mistakes but korras journey is still good. She starts out as a total amazon, that buff girl that just wants to fight and be a hero and going on her hero journey. At first it looks like she won't be able to get that journey but when it finally comes it eventually leads her more invert. Her biggest weakness is that she is not very spiritual or even open for these things. Wich shows trough her struggles with airbending and the spiritual world, as her story leads her inward and into understanding and into a more clam mind she is able to complete her journey and mature into being the avatar her world needs.
How the woman must grow thru there ranks
1 amazon
2hitaria
3 mother
4crone/witch
Octavia from the TV series The 100 is an embodiment of this archetype.
Clark is too, but in a different way.
7:45+ isn't this a hint of psychopathy if not more? I do see a distinction however as all overbearing personas are not psychopathic.
Xena was definitely on my radar for this, from my memory I felt like she embodied a better balance of male and female.
this may be a sideline but for female warriors in TV/movies they are often depicted as clean cut warriors in their fighting style, a clean cut feminine dance of moments no matter how many targets they disable Charlize is a good example of this. Very rarely at all is a female warrior brutish or tapping into full bouts of raw brutish energy- even if they still embody a 'feminine'/ female frame. Or if woman is not clean cut, her fighting style is mildly loutish, not embodying the brute force energy a female warrior would definitely have ability to tap into. All of this is to say, I think the female warrior archetype is very underdeveloped compared to what it could be, to be considered authentic.
Star Wars has a Female Amazon/Heroine type who underwent the Hero/Heroine's Journey- Ahsoka Tano.
Rapunzel from Tangled.
G.I. Jane.. Demi Moore.. Geena Davis in the long kiss goodnight..
The New She-Ra
Much appreciate you both. Have you considered an alternative to Patreon? I’d like to offer support but I just can’t get behind Patreon and all the censorship
Thank you! Some alternatives here: futurethinkers.org/support/
But is the heroine's journey the same as the hero's? Does/should their evolution follow the same path? I think there is maybe a different truth for the female archetypes...
I feel like the avatar series shows that really good. Aang is a boy with more feminin energy who doesn't want the journey. Korra on the other hand is a buff girl wanting her hero journey but won't get it at first and when she gets it her journey is more internal and brings her more to her feminin where she gets the power to win in the end. Aang had to get the maskulin energy. Both balanced both at the end
Also the new She-ra! Total choosen one / hero story
The cartoon Mulan
The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel has quite a few of good female archetypes.
Lizbeth Salander!!!
Great example
What is the name of the lady in this video? I would like to follow her.
Second video in a row that pushes into 'gender fluidity'. Really? Is there a reason that this -has- to be brought in in discussion of ARCHETYPES?! Just discuss the archetypes themselves. We get the concept of gender fluidity, but it's NOT the subject matter. Especially when the subject is the AMAZON; the FEMININE warrior.
Mike is pitching 'meatball' questions at Euvie. I've yet to hear him make a solid argument about anything that didn't totally agree with what she said.
Is this Atena ?
Mulan!
Eleven from Stranger Things! Hands down!
Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz .
Elsa from frozen
The mom in terminator
Movies catness ever Deen,