Review it on the 15th. If they plan on shipping they deserve a review on what they are subjecting their costumers to. Promises dont matter. They need to be judged on what they are currently delivering
exactly ... companies are delivering hardware where software is not working properly at all .. and we are paying for hw + software .. its like games ..patching in day 1.. its our failure that we are buying shits before in day 0
Agreed. It has become too much of an unfortunate 'standard' in many industries to say 'it's fine because we will fix it later'. Nothing against Coros, I like what they do, but you can't review a promise. Or ride it.
Thanks for the update! As it seems they plan to send out preorders per July 15th, for those who choose to, I think it makes sense to share your review as well.
My two cents: The decision to ship is a cash flow and logistic issue. From the cash flow point of view, getting units out gets cash on the other side of the ledger. From the logistics point of view, they have a bunch of units with bad tabs ready to go, so they have three options: 1. open up the boxes, take the backs off, put the new backs on, and pack them up. This is a long, manual process. 2. trash the units. This is a costly issue. 3. Ship the iffy units and hope they don't break. So, which is the lesser of the three evils. From a cost perspective, I agree with what they are doing. From the customer point of view, not so much.
Hello, we would like to clarify that we will offer a free replacement to all customers who bought the first batch of DURA. So this policy actually costs us more than to just hold off the entire shipment because of all the logistics involved. We also decided to deliver these products to consumers because the DURA is totally fine to use with our own COROS handlebar mount, and because we've made a promise to ship them on July 15. Again, we made this decision because we want to put consumer's experience as the first priority.
Nothing to do with cash,they have large cash reserves and Decathlon is a big investor. it’s because they want to make use of the Gravel race (can’t remember the name) and get in for the summer sales. The delay is because the software isn’t up to scratch. The mount is a ridiculous lie and I think most people see through this lie. It’s a shame coros has decided to take this approach, as they’ve typically been all about building a solid brand.
That date has already been and gone. Customers already received their devices. Now the second drop is in September when they’ve fixed the moun… sorry I mean when they’ve done a bit more software work
I don't understand what the big deal is about rerouting; I even find it annoying. I want to follow routes exactly as the person who designed it intended, so super annoying when the device reroutes, I always turn it off. Same with turn-by-turn navigation. Who really needs that? It's totally unnecessary in my opinion. What I would like to know is whether the device performs flawlessly in extended rain, heat, etc.
I think it would be helpful for minor route fixes. For example I just plotted a 63 mile route through the city and there are a lot of parallel paths or random junctions that might diverge around a lake or a river. Occasionally a path might be blocked due to high water or a tree, both of which I've had happen. I'm not sure how functional breadcrumb routing is if you wander off the specific route and then come back to it because I haven't actually used my watch or a bike computer for directions. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think a detour would confuse bread crumb routing? If not, then yeah. I guess it's not that big of a deal.
Seems like extending the warranty on the mounting tabs is a bit of an empty gesture. If the tabs fail, and the device goes crashing down the pavement, it is really the device AND tabs that should have a warranty the is extended and covers physical damage--and loss depending on where the device flies to.
Hey @jbhorner, to clarify what the extra year of warranty on the mounting tabs covers - it will cover any issues relating to a mounting tabs failure like physical damage if the device were to fail causing the unit to fall off the bike. While we expect these issues to be very rare, they will be covered in the instance that it occurs. Hope this helps!
I am tempted, if only because i have a coros apex 42mm watch and this uses the same app… and the wahoo watch is too big for my tiny wrists, and they are abandoning watched
I’d say review it when it officially releases and release an update review once the unit is actually of a quality level to compete with the competitors. From the videos you’ve released already it’s pretty clear I won’t buy this thing until it’s better, and I think an official confirmation that it’s unfinished and not worth buying is a helpful review to kick the company to actually make it good.
I wear a Coros Apex II on my wrist. Use a Wahoo Roam V2 while cycling, paired to a Wahoo Tickr on my upper arm. In general, I like the physical buttons on the Wahoo, which is very simple to push, even on very bumpy roads. I’m not sure the scroll wheel on the Coros cycling unit is a good idea.
I have a theory that most of these issues are/were (3 mos ago) due to the battery saving method. more time between refreshes means less power usage. which is fine as long as it doesn't screw up the data integrity. it sounds to me like the entire system is on a common refresh instead of "smart" timing individual features for what the user thinks is important in the settings... the GPS receiver for instance should be timed based off your pace and how far away is your next turn is... ideally on a bike you want an alert one to two tenths of a mile prior to the turn, possibly less if you're going slower, and another alert at the turn. this means they should time the GPS reciever to turn on half a mile prior to verify your position and stay on until the turn is complete and verify that you've made the turn correctly, and after calculating the time to the next turn, should stay on if the turns are close enough together, keeping in mind there are other reasons to turn on the GPS. for example depending on the performance sensor granularity, the software can estimate the GPS coordinates for sensor data points and still collect that data then when it gets an actual GPS reading the software can adjust the GPS stamps for the data points in between based on the difference. camera settings have aperture priority shutter speed priority... this should have something similar: navigation priority, training data priority. honestly with my tablet most of the energy goes to lighting the screen, and second behind that is the various communication transmitters and receivers... simply said they would save the most energy just by being smarter about when the screen comes on. the problem with my scenario above is that situations change. you're going to go a lot faster down a steep descent, so if the timing doesn't take that into account, then it might be late to give you instructions because you got there earlier than it predicted based off of your pace on the flat. the other thing is they're using Google maps and Google does its calculations without taking elevation into account, which you can see in a car when comparing the actual odometer versus "Google mileage"... in a car it doesn't make much difference to travel time, but on a bike it can add up to a lot. and how much difference there is between estimate and actual depends on your skill level and how much weight you're pushing.
Mounting tabs also brake on garmin and bryton devices. 🤷♂️ Nowadays Bryton use a replaceable back piece. It is durable and it can be replaced easily if it breaks. Another brand uses an aluminium mounting piece which is also replaceable.
I don’t think I understand the insistence on auto-rerouting. The Coros is at least partially targeting the ultra-distance or bikepacking crowd with the long battery life, and Garmin rerouting has historically caused trouble there, taking riders off route. And I’m pretty sure similarly priced computers don’t have that feature either. I just don’t think it’s a make or break feature.
Agree on auto-rerouting. Not something most bikepackers would use as they will typically want to go back to the point on the route where they went wrong! I am keen to see the turn-by- turn routing working properly. Then the Coros could be a good replacement for my Etrex...
The Wahoo BOLT V2 at basically the same price re-routes just fine. As do numerous other Garmin Edge x40 series (and frankly, x30 series). While there are some long-distance people that might not want to re-route, the reality is when there's a route that's blocked/etc, people want a way around. No idea why it keeps get repeating that people don't want re-routing.
For me and most of the people I know it is the first thing to turn off. It's easier to just look at the map and go back on route where you want to. I use the bolt V2.
100% wait to give us the full review as a Christmas gift 🎁 I haven't had as many issues with navigation but I do see a few sticky watts in here. Do you ever just feel sorry for the COROS software development team? I always worry that management is making promises that are very hard for that team to back up. Or "writing checks their dev team can't cash"? I don't know. 🤷♂ But I'm glad COROS is trying to do something interesting in this space.
I still think they could fix the rerouting problem by doing the rerouting on the phone with downloaded maps. The real problem is porting or writing code to do rerouting (in a performant way) on the device itself with limited resources. Most riders will still have a phone with them even if they are out of cellular range. If you have to have rerouting on the device, buy a $600 Garmin.
Don't understand the conspiracy. If they are going to change the units in September, then it's indeed about the mounting. For software updates there would be no need to exchange the units physically.
I tihink Coros put routes caluculation on phone on purpose. Routes calculation requires resources, and this leads to higher battery drain. So instead of draining Dura battery they put calculations on your phone to drain phone battery and not Dura. So this way they can keep Dura processor on lower frequency which saves battery. It could be that if Dura would be calculating rotes by itself, it would not get those 120 hours of battery.
I think the main reason is because they forward the request to google maps or kind of. So they don't spend time on such complex part. In my opinion this is not a bad idea, but it just be done well (quickly and accurately) and would be good to use the offline capabilities of google maps, in case of white zone
I cancelled my order. This makes me too nervous especially on A 1st gen product. The only reason I was going with the coros becuase the app is so much better then garmin
Most people don’t realise that bike computer hardware is pretty basic - it’s the combination of software in the device and cloud services that actually does all the heavy lifting - all this small companies trying to muscle in are going to lose a lot of money - what we really need is Apple to build a top notch bike computer.
Wonder when coros blacklist @DCrainmaker again for speaking the truth. Thank you, I will continue to save my nickel and dimes for a Garmin 840, if it doesn't end up changing to a 850... Need the JetBlack victory before I guess :)
Wait until they ship the 'final' version in September for any more coverage. You are being kind to them about shipping a problematic version. I'm not faulting that but no reason to give more coverage in the meantime. If they make meaningful progress by September that's 'newsworthy' and worth another video.
Garmin style mounting tabs are a hard no from me anyway on any device, software doesn't matter if it's broken in the drawer (like my old garmins) If they wanted to copy/license a common standard, use the lezyne 4-tab. It's metal and already has nice 3rd party options
Sorry but Coros dis a really bad job here in terms of marketing. They have a too early status reviewed, get understandably lukewarm comments, damage on the units reputation is done. And now they're spending a small fortune on unit replacement. I wouldn't like to work for them!
conclusion; junk product - they're way out of their depth, about 5-10 years behind Garmin and Wahoo (no climb pro for example), you'd be buying a troubled buggy product.
Review it on the 15th. If they plan on shipping they deserve a review on what they are subjecting their costumers to.
Promises dont matter. They need to be judged on what they are currently delivering
The golden rule all reviewers should follow!
exactly ... companies are delivering hardware where software is not working properly at all .. and we are paying for hw + software .. its like games ..patching in day 1.. its our failure that we are buying shits before in day 0
Agreed. It has become too much of an unfortunate 'standard' in many industries to say 'it's fine because we will fix it later'. Nothing against Coros, I like what they do, but you can't review a promise. Or ride it.
I vote for review sooner, when it ships. Companies need to understand that shipping incomplete crap has consequences.
Thanks for the update! As it seems they plan to send out preorders per July 15th, for those who choose to, I think it makes sense to share your review as well.
Ray's body battery hitting the 10's with all these uploads
@@wandatowellable currently at 5. High for the day was…ummm….38.
It will be available to the public on the 15th. So I say review it on the 15th.
I'm just here to say that I'm a big fan of your taste in T-shirts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts-opinion!
Thanks!!!
My two cents: The decision to ship is a cash flow and logistic issue. From the cash flow point of view, getting units out gets cash on the other side of the ledger. From the logistics point of view, they have a bunch of units with bad tabs ready to go, so they have three options: 1. open up the boxes, take the backs off, put the new backs on, and pack them up. This is a long, manual process. 2. trash the units. This is a costly issue. 3. Ship the iffy units and hope they don't break. So, which is the lesser of the three evils. From a cost perspective, I agree with what they are doing. From the customer point of view, not so much.
Hello, we would like to clarify that we will offer a free replacement to all customers who bought the first batch of DURA. So this policy actually costs us more than to just hold off the entire shipment because of all the logistics involved. We also decided to deliver these products to consumers because the DURA is totally fine to use with our own COROS handlebar mount, and because we've made a promise to ship them on July 15. Again, we made this decision because we want to put consumer's experience as the first priority.
@@COROSGlobal Just goes to show what UA-cam commenters know ;-)
Nothing to do with cash,they have large cash reserves and Decathlon is a big investor. it’s because they want to make use of the Gravel race (can’t remember the name) and get in for the summer sales.
The delay is because the software isn’t up to scratch. The mount is a ridiculous lie and I think most people see through this lie. It’s a shame coros has decided to take this approach, as they’ve typically been all about building a solid brand.
First thing I turn off on any Garmin device is rerouting, just like all my friends ;-)
The removable back tab is a good idea. I've seen tons of broken tabs. They fix the tab also have more time to fix firmware. Not bad
Definitely review it once it officially launches and then do a follow up next year if needed.
I think your official review should coincide with when the product is actually available for purchase and use by the general public.
That date has already been and gone. Customers already received their devices. Now the second drop is in September when they’ve fixed the moun… sorry I mean when they’ve done a bit more software work
I don't understand what the big deal is about rerouting; I even find it annoying. I want to follow routes exactly as the person who designed it intended, so super annoying when the device reroutes, I always turn it off. Same with turn-by-turn navigation. Who really needs that? It's totally unnecessary in my opinion. What I would like to know is whether the device performs flawlessly in extended rain, heat, etc.
I think it would be helpful for minor route fixes. For example I just plotted a 63 mile route through the city and there are a lot of parallel paths or random junctions that might diverge around a lake or a river. Occasionally a path might be blocked due to high water or a tree, both of which I've had happen. I'm not sure how functional breadcrumb routing is if you wander off the specific route and then come back to it because I haven't actually used my watch or a bike computer for directions. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think a detour would confuse bread crumb routing? If not, then yeah. I guess it's not that big of a deal.
I have one of these. I have none of these issues! Power meter data OK, Navigation works just fine. Only problem is with the RwGPS integration.
Seems like extending the warranty on the mounting tabs is a bit of an empty gesture. If the tabs fail, and the device goes crashing down the pavement, it is really the device AND tabs that should have a warranty the is extended and covers physical damage--and loss depending on where the device flies to.
Hey @jbhorner, to clarify what the extra year of warranty on the mounting tabs covers - it will cover any issues relating to a mounting tabs failure like physical damage if the device were to fail causing the unit to fall off the bike. While we expect these issues to be very rare, they will be covered in the instance that it occurs. Hope this helps!
I am tempted, if only because i have a coros apex 42mm watch and this uses the same app… and the wahoo watch is too big for my tiny wrists, and they are abandoning watched
I am quite pleased that I have NOT ordered a Coros Dura 😂
I’d say review it when it officially releases and release an update review once the unit is actually of a quality level to compete with the competitors. From the videos you’ve released already it’s pretty clear I won’t buy this thing until it’s better, and I think an official confirmation that it’s unfinished and not worth buying is a helpful review to kick the company to actually make it good.
I wear a Coros Apex II on my wrist. Use a Wahoo Roam V2 while cycling, paired to a Wahoo Tickr on my upper arm. In general, I like the physical buttons on the Wahoo, which is very simple to push, even on very bumpy roads. I’m not sure the scroll wheel on the Coros cycling unit is a good idea.
I know this can detect your shifting but can it also detect battery life of shifters and derailleur?
I have a theory that most of these issues are/were (3 mos ago) due to the battery saving method. more time between refreshes means less power usage. which is fine as long as it doesn't screw up the data integrity. it sounds to me like the entire system is on a common refresh instead of "smart" timing individual features for what the user thinks is important in the settings... the GPS receiver for instance should be timed based off your pace and how far away is your next turn is... ideally on a bike you want an alert one to two tenths of a mile prior to the turn, possibly less if you're going slower, and another alert at the turn. this means they should time the GPS reciever to turn on half a mile prior to verify your position and stay on until the turn is complete and verify that you've made the turn correctly, and after calculating the time to the next turn, should stay on if the turns are close enough together, keeping in mind there are other reasons to turn on the GPS. for example depending on the performance sensor granularity, the software can estimate the GPS coordinates for sensor data points and still collect that data then when it gets an actual GPS reading the software can adjust the GPS stamps for the data points in between based on the difference. camera settings have aperture priority shutter speed priority... this should have something similar: navigation priority, training data priority. honestly with my tablet most of the energy goes to lighting the screen, and second behind that is the various communication transmitters and receivers... simply said they would save the most energy just by being smarter about when the screen comes on. the problem with my scenario above is that situations change. you're going to go a lot faster down a steep descent, so if the timing doesn't take that into account, then it might be late to give you instructions because you got there earlier than it predicted based off of your pace on the flat. the other thing is they're using Google maps and Google does its calculations without taking elevation into account, which you can see in a car when comparing the actual odometer versus "Google mileage"... in a car it doesn't make much difference to travel time, but on a bike it can add up to a lot. and how much difference there is between estimate and actual depends on your skill level and how much weight you're pushing.
What's the third party mount that you mentioned that also mounts an action camera?
Mounting tabs also brake on garmin and bryton devices. 🤷♂️ Nowadays Bryton use a replaceable back piece. It is durable and it can be replaced easily if it breaks. Another brand uses an aluminium mounting piece which is also replaceable.
I don’t think I understand the insistence on auto-rerouting. The Coros is at least partially targeting the ultra-distance or bikepacking crowd with the long battery life, and Garmin rerouting has historically caused trouble there, taking riders off route. And I’m pretty sure similarly priced computers don’t have that feature either. I just don’t think it’s a make or break feature.
Agree on auto-rerouting. Not something most bikepackers would use as they will typically want to go back to the point on the route where they went wrong! I am keen to see the turn-by- turn routing working properly. Then the Coros could be a good replacement for my Etrex...
The Wahoo BOLT V2 at basically the same price re-routes just fine. As do numerous other Garmin Edge x40 series (and frankly, x30 series). While there are some long-distance people that might not want to re-route, the reality is when there's a route that's blocked/etc, people want a way around. No idea why it keeps get repeating that people don't want re-routing.
For me and most of the people I know it is the first thing to turn off. It's easier to just look at the map and go back on route where you want to. I use the bolt V2.
100% wait to give us the full review as a Christmas gift 🎁 I haven't had as many issues with navigation but I do see a few sticky watts in here. Do you ever just feel sorry for the COROS software development team? I always worry that management is making promises that are very hard for that team to back up. Or "writing checks their dev team can't cash"? I don't know. 🤷♂ But I'm glad COROS is trying to do something interesting in this space.
Wait. If there is day and night differences, you have shown enough for now.
Hi,sir! nice video as always, what tool do you use to compare two FIT files?
I still think they could fix the rerouting problem by doing the rerouting on the phone with downloaded maps. The real problem is porting or writing code to do rerouting (in a performant way) on the device itself with limited resources. Most riders will still have a phone with them even if they are out of cellular range. If you have to have rerouting on the device, buy a $600 Garmin.
Ray, hi! Can you hint, are you already testing Phoenix 8?
Could you please review Sigma Rox 12.1 Evo?
Don't understand the conspiracy. If they are going to change the units in September, then it's indeed about the mounting. For software updates there would be no need to exchange the units physically.
I'll wait till an hardware updated at least. Not fan of a dial nob while pedaling
I don't really see which part or feature is going to cause a headache for competition. If this ever gets combined right at all. Sorry, Coros.
I tihink Coros put routes caluculation on phone on purpose. Routes calculation requires resources, and this leads to higher battery drain. So instead of draining Dura battery they put calculations on your phone to drain phone battery and not Dura. So this way they can keep Dura processor on lower frequency which saves battery. It could be that if Dura would be calculating rotes by itself, it would not get those 120 hours of battery.
I think the main reason is because they forward the request to google maps or kind of. So they don't spend time on such complex part.
In my opinion this is not a bad idea, but it just be done well (quickly and accurately) and would be good to use the offline capabilities of google maps, in case of white zone
Good call by them to delay it
I cancelled my order. This makes me too nervous especially on A 1st gen product. The only reason I was going with the coros becuase the app is so much better then garmin
Sigma 12.1 evo review please!!
Most people don’t realise that bike computer hardware is pretty basic - it’s the combination of software in the device and cloud services that actually does all the heavy lifting - all this small companies trying to muscle in are going to lose a lot of money - what we really need is Apple to build a top notch bike computer.
Wonder when coros blacklist @DCrainmaker again for speaking the truth. Thank you, I will continue to save my nickel and dimes for a Garmin 840, if it doesn't end up changing to a 850... Need the JetBlack victory before I guess :)
Wait until they ship the 'final' version in September for any more coverage. You are being kind to them about shipping a problematic version. I'm not faulting that but no reason to give more coverage in the meantime. If they make meaningful progress by September that's 'newsworthy' and worth another video.
i dont think its the reason, its the software
100%. A bit too convenient
So in September they will exchange the device ... by the same one updated ?
I divided to be a beta tester of the Dura. I choose the first option.
you are being too nice lol. none of this will matter with their horrible idea for hardware. the crown/dial is an awful idea
Tries to outshine Garmin as always, but fails.
Their watches are better
Why not do a review on the 15th (with caveats) and then a scheduled update in September?
Well it's clearly not ready 😅
Review the Bryton cycle computer.. Biniam is head ever heels with his!!
He has reviewed at least a few over the years.
@@mikecar52 not for a long time..
What an absolute disaster. Who would buy this monstrosity
It's an evolution........ 🤣
Garmin style mounting tabs are a hard no from me anyway on any device, software doesn't matter if it's broken in the drawer (like my old garmins)
If they wanted to copy/license a common standard, use the lezyne 4-tab. It's metal and already has nice 3rd party options
Whats wrong with the garmin mount?
@@_gregvalencia it breaks. There's even a whole industry built around making replacement tabs for what is effectively a defective design.
Meanwhile their watches are getting leapfrogged by suunto
That thing looks rubbish.
The whole unit just seems less Dura-Ace and more Dura-Meh.
Feels DuraAce power meter, not DuraAce shifting.
Sorry but Coros dis a really bad job here in terms of marketing. They have a too early status reviewed, get understandably lukewarm comments, damage on the units reputation is done. And now they're spending a small fortune on unit replacement. I wouldn't like to work for them!
Who can tell me how to transfer variability data, sleep, and other statistics to the new watch from 255 to 7?
conclusion; junk product - they're way out of their depth, about 5-10 years behind Garmin and Wahoo (no climb pro for example), you'd be buying a troubled buggy product.
The worst thing in this world is toxic positivity. We need to be brutally honest. Truth prevail
Zero reasons to purchase this thing.
to support coros
Coros is a joke lol