That's pretty awesome. I second that thought. I already have a 1040 and do not plan on buying any of the others two but it's Ray and I just had to watch it. Plus the whole plug in about the Grand Canary island was spot on! That's my next spot.
I love the whole navigation side of the Karoo unit. It's so clear and easy to read showing climbs ahead in blue the large arrowheads it's a big winner for me.
Right! I can't even tell what's going on the map on the Wahoo. I can imagine having to pull out my phone all the time when trying to navigate around complex unfamiliar areas with that.
@@klaxxon__ In particular if you are on an uneven section of road or off-road and need a quick glance or if your route crosses over a section already ridden. You need to be able to see this clearly. My only grip and not something Ray mentioned is that the climb graph overlays your position on the route map.
Di2 support was canceled by Shimano since Hammerhead belongs to SRAM for some time.. but on the Karoo 2 there was a good workaround, guess this will appear on the 3 soon
D C R you are a beast when it comes to tech reviews 👍. Fantastic coverage of all the features. Well done for continuous talking … your brain must be flying. I’m a Garmin fan through and through. Well done 👏 👏
From my experience: Most of us have always just stuck with whichever brand we purchased first, lol. 🧠This would be a great video to watch before making a first purchase.
I used Garmin 530 and now Karoo 3. Garmin is definitely a better training platform. Hammerhead feels very basic, just the map and some numbers - no suggestions for recovery, training load, etc
@morneauh and strava or other training platforms can easily provide that data post ride. What I want in training functionality is cadence, speed, and/or heart rate targets on the prescribed route or indoor workout. When to push, when to ease off, etc.
This video popped up for me at a perfect time. I just bought a Lynskey GR300 with SRAM Rival AXS and have been researching a bike computer to serve me on pavement and gravel / trail riding. This told me literally more than 5-10 hours of research looking at head unit comparisons online. Thank so much, you earned a sub and like.
Wahoo user here. I like how its syncs switch ridewithgps and it’s not fiddly like Garmin. I am a little jealous that it doesn’t have a Garmin connect-like web based interface, but RWGPS fills that gap for me.
In the early days of the first version Elemnt, they were compatible with Garmin Connect. After Wahoo took a few swipes at Garmin in their adverts, Garmin blocked Wahoo compatibility. You can still plug your wahoo into your desktop or laptop, copy the .fit files to your computer, and then log into Garmin Connect with your browser to upload the files from your computer.
Great roundup Ray. I've been on Garmin since I started with an Etrex in 2008 making cycling routes on Garmin Basecamp, jumping to the Edge series with the 810, 510, 520, 1000, etc. and now on the x40s, along with Forerunner and Fenix watches. I prioritize battery life, readable road names on maps and a deep web site with all my uploaded data. Garmin devices occasionally have been glitchy but they've always taken care of my issues via customer service without a lot of hassle. Things on the software side seemed to get better after your post a couple years ago making the case for improvements -- I do think that got their attention.
I have to agree %100. I had an Edge 200 that was randomly glitching, but then had an Edge 800 that worked flawlessly for many years. I even replaced it’s battery once so my wife could get a few years use out of it., after I tried a Wahoo Elemnt just to see what hubub was about. It was okay, but in many ways an obvious step backwards. Too many external apps/sites, and paid subscriptions are required to bring the functionality anywhere close to that of a mid-tier Garmin Edge. Then I got an Edge 830, and it has been 100% trouble free since day one.
Thanks for the great review. I’ve got the 840 after upgrading from the 830. I just love the integration of data from my Epix, Marq and Edge, no matter which of the 3 devices I use! It gives you a pretty holistic view of all your activities including health metrics. And while I don’t have the time to organize my life along the recommendations from my devices, its quite motivating to get off the couch and on the road in order to keep your training status in the green.
Yup, that's one area I didn't really touch on here. I think in general, if you've got a Garmin watch, it's probably best to get a Garmin bike comptuer for that integration/etc (at least if you care about the physio/training load type metrics).
@@Dcrainmaker You know what I do and I'm sure many do is dual record on my Garmin FR 955 and my Wahoo Bolt v2. I love my Garmin watch but I also love the Wahoo so I live in 2 worlds :)
@@Dcrainmaker if you've got the watch it can do that from any activity source I would expect, it does from Zwift (training load etc). So the question is should you pay for it all again with this device. I think it does some cool stuff for du/triathlons though that i need to look into as i cant decide between the wahoo roam v2 and the 1040
I have been watching Ray since 2014 or before, when it was way smaller super nerdy with limited navigation, mostly Garmin and raw data, and the world had much less understanding of power, VO2 etc, only difference, Ray is just as good, if not better. I've been using an Edge 520 since then and now it got slower and unresponsive at rides. Thanks for the comparison, I was sold on Edge 840 after your initial review, now there's no doubt what I am getting next. Keep amazing, and congrats to the lady on triathlon finish and age-level win. Bravo!
Thanks for the super thorough review, Ray. I’ve been waiting to look too closely at the Karoo 3 until you put this out. 😅 I tried a Bolt V2 initially, but it had basically 0 trail coverage near me for MTB (only one of like 10 nearby systems had coverage) so it went back. Returned it for a Karoo 2, that I mostly liked, just had some lag at times and was scared off of it due to low battery life reports, returned that for an 840 because I have a Garmin watch. First unit was warrantied, and have been having what seems like a new issue every time I ride with its replacement. It really seems like every SW update fixes 2 things but breaks 2 more, and it’s been frustrating. Considering hopping back into Karoo land, and giving up the Garmin watch connectivity to just have a stable computer to use, where I don’t have to worry about it deleting important rides or restarting itself several times in the middle of navigating an event. This is all super useful info/comparison.
I love my Wahoo Roam v2 mainly for its lights and ease of use. The lights can be applied to various metrics making it super easy to track exact stats that you need, mainly use it for Varia radar, would be nice to have it extended out just a bit more like for gradient but oh well. No touchscreen/Di2 page scrolling functionality is another nice feature to make it easy to navigate the various pages without an accidental touch movement. When you are moving on a bike you don't want to have to fiddle around with this type of stuff. The GPS part though? I do short quick 5 mile rides outside of my house and the GPS tracking recently got all wonky with it sitting right over buildings and not starting the climb segments with it not showing the current road grade so I am currently waiting for a replacement unit to solve this issue. Not sure how it tracks vs the other 2 units but I'd love to see boot up time factored. Having to wait for the unit to fully boot up before setting off is annoying and that is with a short walk factored in.
Have been using the K2, just upgraded to the K3 ... even though it could be a bit "snappier," it's navigation, screen, strava live segments are so good.
Best combo: for all cycling metrics a Garmin Fenix/Epix/Forerunner (even an older model is totally fine) and for Navigation Wahoo Roam V2 or Karoo 3. :)
What I notice with Wahoo re-routing is that it will try to get you back onto your route as close to the point where you diverted from it as possible. That means your rejoin can be 10m away and still it wants you to go back 5km through some random roads. Once you join your track again it is fine however. But you will have to do some on the fly routing yourself with the map screen. Good thing I played so much Driver as a kid so I can do that quickly without stopping.
Wahoo Roam 2 on my bike just because of its great food reminder. Have also the Karoo2, good but missing a food reminder (people are asking since years….). Garmin is a total mess with a menu that is all but intuitive. Thanks for the review.
I am so unhappy with Garmin (830), despite only ever having Garmin. And the problem is not something you discuss. It is updates, and fixes. Garmin just seems to leave support off after about a year. Things never get fixed. I really think this aspect needs to be part of reviews. You act like all these units work as advertised, but I find that only sometimes. Things like getting the phone to connect; seems to work only at random on my Garmin. I would jump at an alternative if I thought it would be better, but I can't find that sort of info.
Agreed. Went from Garmin to Wahoo years ago because my unit randomly and completely dropped all my ride data several times. Then I started having connectivity problems where my data wouldn't upload. I think I've had my Wahoo like 6 years and other than some wifi issues when I'm staying at hotels, I have had none of these problems.
Did you try filing a warranty claim when it was still within warranty period? Easy to do on the website. My 830 has been flawless since day 1. It really sounds like you have a bad unit.
That’s a good point. My Garmin was a hot mess where every firmware update was a crapshoot whether it would randomly break something that worked before.
I was a Garmin user for years and switched to the Karoo 2 a little over a year ago. I love the interface and navigation compared to my Garmin. I use the KI2 app for my DI2 integration and I'm content with that. Native support would be optimal, but lawyers will be lawyers! 😢
My favorite feature in the karoo is in the climbing mode, it slices the climb in 100m chunks and shows the percentage. It's great to deal with difficult climbs. It's litteraly the only feature that makes me remain in this ecosystem.
@@Dcrainmaker I wonder how they are making it get better. They take from openstreetmap, and any errors there are projected straight into the Karoo. Near my place the karoo shows a 40% climb when riding a flat along a river. When I looked into OSM, they had a large hill bulging well into the river there.
Got one, was time to try something new... I used mine K3 for the last week (road , gravel , mtb) coming from a Garmin 840: - Climber works well but it not as intuitive as the 840, the scrolling gradients is a very strange way to display it, and follow your progression on the climb - No descent gradients or color coding, just distance (elevation remaining graph), also think the 840 its better here, its very useful in long rides, so you can “see” whats ahead of you and for how long. - Battery goes fast (10% per hour with navigation), but I don’t ride for 10hrs+ Otherwise, the navigation is fantastic, setup and integration with phone/strava/dashboard is very intuitive, no bugs so far or issues (had several with my 840 + Garmin navigation is horrible, hence the change to this unit) Happy so far, just wish they would learn a bit from Garmin on the visualisation of climbs and descents, once you have it you really miss it.
I’d just like to say I bought my 1040 just before the Karoo 3 came out. I’m keeping my 1040, it’s awesome. I rode 100 miles and used 8% of the battery yesterday. The wind app is also amazing.
I like the wahoo, it's really intuitive and does the basics extremely well. If you need more features grab the garmin, but to me it's just too cluttered with features and options I'll never use. And navigating through the menus looks like hell to me.
DC. It seems clear in this video and also consistent with my experience that if you are a serious “time crunched “ athlete that just needs to turn on your device and have it work , then Garmin is the way to go. Good video.
Brilliant video Ray . Very insightful . I've been a Garmin user for years but with every model of bike computer I've owned the 810,830,130 plus I've had software issues and glitches. EVERY computer I have had to send back to Garmin to get fixed or usually replaced and I just can't be bothered with the software unreliability anymore . Today I've sent back my Garmin 1030 plus AGAIN as it refuses to turn off and won't load . It's the 2nd replacement ! Garmin are great when they work but for me reliability is poor, no question. You've just convinced me to try something else and go for the Karoo 3.
With Karoo 2 you needed internet connection when you want to create a route and the number of POI’s was very limited. Also the maps did not seem to have much details. I purchased the Karoo 2 when they launched it a few years ago, but I returned it! (No problem to send back and I got my money back without any problem.) I now use the Garmin 1030 (after using Garmin Explore 1000 for a few years) and I am still very happy with it! I do install the maps from VeloMaps, mainly to have more POI’s in the memory. Another great advantage for the Garmin is the great battery! I have now cycled about 35000 km with my bike and those two Garmins (including trip from Belgium to North Cape and back, and last year from Belgium to Turkey and back) and no problems at all! Thumbs up for Garmin!
I also had a Karoo 2 and found it got confused when I accidentally went off route. It could've been bad signal or my error. Is there a difference between Garmin and karoo in terms of gps signal quality?
Awesome review as always Ray! Re: Garmin incident detection. From what I can tell and your reviews, it seems to work fine on the road, but many people I know that ride offroad end up turning it off due to false positives. It seems to use simple thresholds that trigger the algo more often in offroad conditions. I would love to see all three manufacturers continue to innovate in the cycling safety space.
re the HH app, it is indeed basic but its only been out a few weeks and, knowing HH, it will no doubt get multiple updates and improvements in the very near future. And its ability to push google map pins onto the K3 is almost reason enough to get that device imo!
once again Ray knocks it outta the park with his video. Torn between getting a Roam v2 or an 840... this will be my first bike computer and sick of using my cell phone in the quadlock mount. leaning towards the Garmin as I still use my 945 and HRM pro strap.. but the price of the Roam is a bit better. Thank Ray !!!
I would have been interested to hear some discussion on post-purchase software support. Garmin seem happy to crap on Edge x30 owners from a great height by not offering the new UI on those units, whereas Hammerhead seem to go out of their way keep older units updated, with Wahoo somewhere in between. I understand Garmin's business reasons for it but I think they underestimate the good will created by supporting older units when the time comes for the customer to replace those units.
Practically speaking, if we look at release timeframes, they're actually pretty similiar, especially now that both Wahoo and Hammerhead have gotten beyond the V1 versions, we're basically seeing them on similiar "how long do we support things". It's been a notable shift for both companies. Heck, even though Hammerhead is still updating the Karoo 2, we already see breakaways (structured workout player is different between V2 and V3, as an example).
@@Dcrainmaker Then we are pretty poorly served by the cycling tech industry. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but iOS17 is supported back through 7 generations. I don't think it's too much to ask to have two generations covered by the same firmware and let the hardware upgrades, such as they are, speak for themselves.
Not offering a new UI is hardly "crapping" on users of older hardware. They still receive updates and fixes, and maybe they don't get the new UI because it would not run well on old hardware. . My 830 worked great when I bought it years ago, and it still works perfectly today. . I see no reason to have a different UI. If I thought I needed a new UI, I'd buy a new computer because new software always runs best on new hardware. . Nobody "needs" any of this stuff anyway. I attained a wuite high fitness level with a wired Avocet v.1.0 back in the 80's. Speed, Distance, ride time.
Excellent summary of the bike computer from different competitors. Karoo Hh3 would be interesting option to try but this time decided to purchase Garmin 540 solar due to sale in my local store.
If you just like to ride and don’t care about having every single training metric and feature available to you, the Wahoo can’t be beat. It’s the most user friendly and super reliable. I don’t need the clutter of the Garmin
Thanks as always Ray. Definitely looking into Gran Canaria vacation I went with the Roam v2 as I got an incredible deal. Been happy with it, but wish they had a Garmin-like ecosystem for training. I have the Epix 2 watch, so I see all the metrics available in Garmin. Do I ditch Wahoo for Garmin? The 1040 is now on discount....so maybe...but... I borrowed a Garmin 840 and from a visibility standpoint it's been my experience that the Garmin screen has issues with reflections that make the Garmin less easy to view in direct sunlight than the Roam v2. Again, that's my experience YMMV. I may do a DCR and pick up a discounted 1040 and run the two units simultaneously. Keep the winner and sell the other unit. Be well. Way to go Bobbi on the win.
I use the Garmin Explore 2, but traveling between US and EU, discovered that with limited internal storage I can't have both US and EU maps and the process of removing/loading maps through Garmin Express PC app is surprisingly buggy and time consuming. I'd love a unit that can hold more maps or makes the loading process easier (e.g. via phone app, or directly on the unit). Wish you didn't skip over this part in your otherwise thorough and excellent review.
Not sure why you missed out the TwoNav Aventura 2. IMO the best there is! I've had an original TwoNav Aventura for over 10 years and it's still going strong. It's flown and hit things a few times during my mountain biking and survived. The screen is big enough to view while riding along and you are able to adjust the route line width to see it more clearly.
Thanks for the effort! Since I've got a Garmin Fenix for running and swimming an Edge is pretty much a requirement and ties in much better than it's competitors. I just wish Garmin would make their Strava segment screen as customizable as the rest, it's missing some key options.
Enjoy the video. I'm looking for a head unit, was thinking of the Garmin edge explore 2 as only need it for navigation. I've using a Lezyne mega xl at the minute. So would like to see a video on the Garmin explore 2 please
I had the Garmin and just got the Wahoo. Don't get another Garmin! Buy the Wahoo, you won't regret it. No more devious submenus created by a company deliberately making it difficult for its customers.
Great review 👍 Myst admit though I am still shopping for a solution to connect my insulin pump (Medtronic) to a GPS directly, instead of via an iphone. As soon as Medtronic, Hammerhead or Garmin release that, I’ll be the first to order. No matter the price 🤞🤞
Me too. I have an Epix Pro which is my recording device for every activity and health/fitness metric. On the bike, my Karoo gives me a great display and navigation plus a backup recording if I forget to start the Garmin.
I bought my Wahoo Roam a couple days before this video came out. Think I might have gone with the Garmin after watching this video. Still happy w my purchase though - thanks for the video!
The video doesn't do a good job of explaining how user friendly the Roam is. I just used it for the first time yesterday and I can't believe how much better the Roam is than the Garmin. DON'T BUY A GARMIN. I had a Garmin 520 plus for about 3 years and I could never figure out how to get navigation to work. I was able to get a route on the Roam in about 5 minutes while setting it up. I wish I bought the Roam years ago. You made the right choice. btw, I had a long time Garmin user help me with the Garmin and she was struggling with it because it wasn't the touch screen. Most unintuitive device I've ever purchased. I should be able to sell it to one of the many brainwashed sheep who like Garmin products.
@@holdencaulfied7492The Garmin Edge 520 was released in April 2015, over 9 years ago. It’s not at all like the Edge 840 I compared here. (And the Edge 520 Plus in 2018, some 6 years ago).
For me personally, the Garmin training plan ecosystem is a major differentiator. I use the Garmin training plans (cycling) and the suggested workouts (running). I'm not serious enough or wealthy enough to pay for personal coaching, but I do like to have some structure to my workouts. If you add in the monthly fees for 3rd party training apps to get the equivalent of the included Garmin plans for the other devices, you are paying a lot more for them. I've found the Garmin cycling training plans ideal for cycling Gran Fondo events I've done, and the Garmin Connect calendar feature works well for me too.
i'd be curious to see a deeper dive into the comparison between navigation on the different devices. This may have been corrected on newer Garmins, but whenever you go off course on my edge 530, it always wants me to make a u-turn even when there is a perfectly viable route on it. additionally, if i were to go off course and make a u-turn to get back on course, my garmin seems to always tell me to go the wrong direction on the road that I came from rather than the way I am supposed to go. I know hammerhead really marketed smarter navigation features with the karoo 2, but I didn't hear any mention of those. Also, obviously where you live is a much more bike-friendly area, but I have had my Garmin direct me on roads that are unsafe for cyclists (I'm not a wuss; roads that literally no one rides on) instead of taking a safer, more popular route. Additionally, the automatic route creation is close to unusable in my area as it takes me on dangerous roads. I am not sure it even references the heat map data at all...
I have a very disappointing experience with my Edge 840. Navigation is hard to see and follow, the colors make no sense especially on the sun with sunglasses. Ad hock navigation is not reliable. I was 4kms in a straight line to the beginning of a bike race in Granada. It calculated a 25kms route to get there! It’s just unreliable. Had to use google maps to get there. Also the integration with the phone it’s crazy slow. Finish a route, takes more then 45m to upload to Garmin connect. Also to download routes takes forever. Stop creating new features and work on the core functions.
Something may be wrong with your device specifically, my ride uploads are always fast (under 30s), longest route download I've done was for a 300km route with dozens of poi points and that was a 15s download.
Agree with most of your comments. I don’t have much of a delay but the user experience to navigate somewhere is horrendous for a company that has been producing gps for ages. I feel like this review is too afraid to point out garmins negatives.
Wish I could get into this guys style but my brain starts to go into overdrive trying to take in all the info he puts out , you have to pause and go back and forth with his efforts , I like the hard work he does it’s just a bit to much 😵💫
I'm very satisfied with my Roam v1, and will likely upgrade to the v2 eventually. I just wish they'd have different profiles for different bike disciplines...
I used my Roam V2 for the first time yesterday (first Wahoo bike computer) for MTB and it worked great, already easier and better than the Garmin and it was only the first ride. I haven't used a V1 so not much to compare it to and probably not worth the upgrade. Coming from a Garmin, the Wahoo is way better, don't even consider thinking of switching to Garmin.
Great comparison thanks. I didn't realise the battery life difference was actually quite noticeable between the models. I wonder if the Garmins are the preference of bikepackers.
I used a Elemnt Bolt for years and now use a Bolt V2 (color). 2 major problems: they ALWAYS fall behind on Nav routing directions on longer rides. After awhile they’ll be telling you about an upcoming turn hundreds of feet after you already turned. The other is they’re fundamentally incapable of not going off course on live segments in hilly/tree’d areas. Here in Northern California, you’ve always got >50% chance of it deciding you’re no longer on a segment and no longer showing live stats- even though after the fact the gps data is perfect. I’ve been having these problems for 10 years now across 2 computers. It’s nuts.
I've been doing a lot of video viewing on the igps, wahoo, bryton, and hammerhead videos, especially compared to Garmin. I think based on your reviews that the K3 is going to suit me best. I like the Wahoo, but everyone seems to agree on how sluggish it is on navigating (slow to refresh when you turn, etc), as well as its lacking in its climbing feature. The sleek interface and display is a big factor, and that the K3 while not cheap won't break the bank like Garmin and much better support. I don't have electronic drive trains, so compatability isn't an issue for me at all.
Mapping and navigation: I dislike how poor Garmin's maps are in terms of colours and such. You hardly see what's around. Is that a park, a forest, a field? Just like at around 9:30 you only see a road in the middle of nowhere. It also makes free riding and planning hard without knowing the surroundings.
What a great compare video. Not yet ready to upgrade my 830 but I like the new Garmin interface. Question on navigation though, when going off route on the Garmin 830 in my experience it will navigate you back to (where you left?) the route instead of the shortest or fastest way to the route. Especially in domestic area's I find that annoying. What is your experience amongst these brands or devices? (or can I adjust it in the 830) Thanks Ray, keep up the good work.
I moved from Garmin to Wahoo then back to Garmin after buying a Garmin watch for trueup features etc. If I’m being honest I miss the simplicity of the Wahoo while out on rides. Hard to explain but the on bike experience is just better with Wahoo IMO.
@@redauwg911 BUY THE WAHOO. Don't buy anything from Garmin unless you like submenus and confusion. I just switched from Garmin to Wahoo Roam V2 and I wish I had done it years ago.
SRAM/Hammerhead recently published the fact that they have no timeline for a developer SDK for the K3. This means apps like Ki2 (for Di2) or Xert, etc. don't work and likely won't work in the mid-term or ever. I like the responsiveness over my Garmin, but I sent the K3 back and went from 530 to 840 instead. Anticompetitive shit (from Shimano) and ecosystem lockdown (from SRAM) sucks!
Waiting for HH/SRAM to send over their official plan/timeline. They previously said it would be slightly delayed from launch, but that it did have a timeline. I saw the customer service comment, but often that's not necessarily the product team communications.
I am generally fairly happy with my Edge 840 but I have to say the map/navigation view is pretty big letdown for me. The colour scheme is just not great and it’s sometimes hard to tell where you are meant to go at a glance. You can change the theme to make the colours more clear but that requires digging around in config files. Once it’s set up it works fine but Garmin could definitely give you more options on the device itself. Another thing that bugs me about the Garmin is that it’s simply not possible to reverse a course on the device. I have several pre-planned routes in my area that I commonly ride but if I want to go in the opposite direction (maybe due to wind the day) it is simply not possible on device. So overall I’d say the Edge does most things quite well but Garmin is a bit too focussed on adding more new features than cleaning up older stuff and providing a great user experience.
I started with the Wahoo Bolt, the data wouldn't jive with Strava when I get a KOM in the device and im 2 seconds off in Strava, that was enough for me to get a Garmin 830, it was perfect, data was on point, sometimes even better when it hit strava. I just bought the Karoo 3, cause navigating with the 830 has caused me to drop my phone 3 times and demolished screens... Im hoping the karoo will be as accurate to strava segment KOM data, while able to send google maps directions direct to the unit 🤞
Love the review! I'm about to change from my well used 810 and I'm on the fence between 840 and 1030 plus. Any thoughts on that? Is the 1030 plus too outdated? I have just seen on a good offer in a bundle in hrm priced well below 840
Hey DC, since you are all plugged into the industry. Do you see Wahoo coming up with an updated Computer anytime soon. Did not want to get a V2 one if there was V3 on the horizon? Thanks great stuff as always.
I was in the same boat as you and just bought the Roam V2. It's so much clearer and easier to use than the Garmin that I don't care if they come out with the V3, I'll just buy that and use the V2 on another bike.
My old Bolt finally died on me after years of service and the verdict is out, I am just getting a Garmin. I just hope it syncs my rides as well as Wahoo did 🤞
Nice review, but I got 1040 for 480eur. There are few stores at this price, so for 30 bucks more it was no brainer to chose it over 840. Didn't find 840 discounted yet, since it is newer device.
Moved from Garmin to hammerhead as I could not justify the cost of a new Garmin after my wife thru out my brand new 830! another story and I got the k2 on a deal, been enjoying it so far, maps are good, screen and batt life has been also Ok so far. Been really good in Mallorca for directions, on maps , Garmin was clearer and simple while HH feels more a phone. Finding a few glitches loading routes when shared from a friends ( garmin/strava) .. I like the climber function on the HH and the strive segments are good segments are single or combined if there right after each other , Also loading to stave HH is not as good as Garmin, the HH app could be much better like garmin, HH updates are good every week or few weeks, But if I were buying from new with no issue of budgets I would go Garmin again I think.
I would recommend trying the Trimm Two from Trimm. A South Korean company making white and black, iphone 4 styled bike computer that features navigation, personalized data display, accurate GPS and so on. Most of all, it is quite affordable for it's features and design.
At least where I live is almost impossible to find the 840 and the 1040 is always on sale around 450€ for the non solar. Probably will take that one to pair with my fênix
Yeah, if all else is equal price-wise, I'd just get the Edge 1040. Only 'downside' is the Edge 1040 doesn't have the extra dedicated up/down buttons of the Edge 840, but hasn't really been an issue.
I have the Wahoo Roam V2 and that thing gets lost at least 1-2 times per ride. For example, if you have some overlap on a route or the route says to go left, U-turn, and then keep going in your original direction it will not give me breadcrumbs to get back on route. Several times two days ago i would go where it was telling me and then just have to ride around in a circle until it figured out where i needed to be again. Big reason i ride with my phone out front so that i can zoom in on Komoot and see where i actually need to go. Very annoying.
Curious, which road bike do you own? I just purchased Trek Domane SL 5 Gen 4 and love it. Thanks for the video. I also purchased the Garmin 840 based on your other video.
Wahoo has bugs on some data fields, e.g. Ant+ LEV, which is not fixed since month. As a long term customer I would appreciate if bugs are fixed fast (especially if they break something).
I have a 1030 plus love it but Garmin is not sending more updates since a year. Now ai bought a Wahoo Roam v2. Love the screen and the app. But I also have an Epix watch and I love the integration of Garmin edge and Epix. Really don’t know what computer will stay with me on the future…the Roam v2 or maybe a 840 solar
Best video ever.. Was it not worth a 2 sec mention that wahoo pages still annoyingly only swipe 1 direction (like my Nokia cell phone from 15 yrs ago) while hh and g swipe both ways.. Go!
Regarding usability you have to keep in mind that your are a power user of those devices for years now. Therefore I might assume that you are so accustomed to use even a Garmin computer. For me coming from an old Elemnt Bolt and currently switching to Garmin for the first time, I'm very much overwhelmed by the features and settings. It's pretty hard for me and I need to search the internet in order to find a way of setting up the 1040.
Don't do it! Return it and get the Wahoo Roam V2. I just got it, coming from a Garmin 520 plus and it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay simpler and better. Dare I say it makes cycling more fun? You should have no difficulty selling the 1040 to one of the legions of brainwashed sheep who buy Garmins. Why did you switch from Wahoo to Garmin? Likely one of the brainwashed sheep told you to get a Garmin. It's not too late for you, walk away from the cult and return to Wahoo!!
I think you have a other Garmin device than I had. Navigition on it is stressfull, turn notification are late, so late that you most of the time you miss your turn and need to turn around. Notification like "dangerous turn ahead" is sometimes given when you already leave the turn.
@@koenvercammen2259 Yeah, there was some pretty big bumps in performance (calculation specifically) between the x30 series and the x40 series. It's massive (I think in one of my x40 reviews I showed side-by-side recall times).
Nice detailed vid as always! But I guess for regular cyclists ride for fun and fitness, smartphone with a free cycling app would be much better than 500$ dedicated specialty device…
Agreed. That and it should have come with a tether. But it's such a good product, I'm okay with spending $10 for the tether and $15 for the combo mount on Amazon. I'm still hundreds of dollars ahead than if I had bought a Garmin.
At 13:36 in to the video, all 3 displays are showing “Ouderkerk aan de Amstel > Het Klein Kalfje”. It’s a mainly fish restaurant in The Netherlands. How is that in Gran Canaria? BTW, to all you (push)bikers it’s well worth visiting this restaurant. It’s mainly fish on the menu. But they also serve Wagyu burgers, Sirloin steaks, Tournedos, Chateau briand, pastas, risottos, etc. They have excellent food and drinks for a reasonable price.
I'm not sure what their thinking is in that area. I agree it seems to be a bit stale. I suspect they look at the falling prices of stuff like the previous gen units Garmin Edge 5xx units and Wahoo BOLT V1 units, and realize it's not all that different.
It would be great if you could somehow compare these units on an "it just works" basis. I have seen many issues where unit software and backend services are broken or unreliable -- things like route sync failures, live tracking not working, spontaneous unit reboot/hang, corrupted data that requires companion app removal/re-installation or factory reset of the unit, stuff that gets broken when new features are added (firmware "whack-a-mole").
+1. For me, it's a clear win. Cannot talk about the K3 but owning both a 1040 and a Roam v2, I never could get used to that Garmin screen too difficult to read for my eyes : it's both a matter of UI and screen reflections. The Roam was a game changer : so clear, crispy and easy to read.
I was shocked when I found out after buying the Garmin 1040 that the strava live segments do not work during navigation. In addition, Garmin limits you to max. 100 favorite strava segments - that's very little!!! I still can't understand why Garmin solves the control of the screens so that you close one screen with the button in the middle of the bottom line, another with the X in the lower right corner, and another with the arrow in the upper left corner!!! It's anything but not intuitive. So ease of use is horrible on Garmin vs. Wahoo which was my previous unit. Wahoo isnt perfect but for me is much better than Garmin. Also matte screen on Wahoo doesnt need any backlight and its still perfect readable and contrasty against Garmin screen which i often cant read because reflections on gloosy screen ruin contrast and readability. Biggest minus for Wahho is absence of possibility to list to previous page.
I have watched the entire review without skipping a second... and I don't even have a bike and don't plan on buying one. That's how good Ray is 😂🎉👍
That's the spirit!
That's pretty awesome. I second that thought. I already have a 1040 and do not plan on buying any of the others two but it's Ray and I just had to watch it. Plus the whole plug in about the Grand Canary island was spot on! That's my next spot.
exactly this
Same
But you still can buy a bike computer!
It’s reviews like this that remind me why DC Rainmaker is always my primary go to for product reviews👍
Thanks, much appreciated!!! This one took an absurd amount of time.
Finally a normal good review by someone who knows what he speaks about and have tried the products. Thx.
Your screen recording renderings are SUPER impressive & insightful in context of ride - I imagine that must have been a lot of work.
Thanks! And indeed…sadly very time consuming. Cheers!
I love the whole navigation side of the Karoo unit. It's so clear and easy to read showing climbs ahead in blue the large arrowheads it's a big winner for me.
Right! I can't even tell what's going on the map on the Wahoo. I can imagine having to pull out my phone all the time when trying to navigate around complex unfamiliar areas with that.
@@klaxxon__ In particular if you are on an uneven section of road or off-road and need a quick glance or if your route crosses over a section already ridden. You need to be able to see this clearly.
My only grip and not something Ray mentioned is that the climb graph overlays your position on the route map.
karoo 3 doesn't have sdk..so you cant use it with di2 for instance..
Di2 support was canceled by Shimano since Hammerhead belongs to SRAM for some time.. but on the Karoo 2 there was a good workaround, guess this will appear on the 3 soon
@h1n1worm you can probably sideload it though
D C R you are a beast when it comes to tech reviews 👍. Fantastic coverage of all the features. Well done for continuous talking … your brain must be flying. I’m a Garmin fan through and through. Well done 👏 👏
Thanks, much appreciated!
From my experience: Most of us have always just stuck with whichever brand we purchased first, lol.
🧠This would be a great video to watch before making a first purchase.
Definitely some truth there!
I used Garmin 530 and now Karoo 3. Garmin is definitely a better training platform. Hammerhead feels very basic, just the map and some numbers - no suggestions for recovery, training load, etc
@@aliancemd Recovery, training load, etc. is all stuff I want on my computer after a ride. Not while I'm out riding.
Is that so, I always do an extensive research before buying anything regardless of previously owned brands.
@morneauh and strava or other training platforms can easily provide that data post ride. What I want in training functionality is cadence, speed, and/or heart rate targets on the prescribed route or indoor workout. When to push, when to ease off, etc.
This video popped up for me at a perfect time. I just bought a Lynskey GR300 with SRAM Rival AXS and have been researching a bike computer to serve me on pavement and gravel / trail riding. This told me literally more than 5-10 hours of research looking at head unit comparisons online. Thank so much, you earned a sub and like.
What did you chose ? :)
Wahoo user here. I like how its syncs switch ridewithgps and it’s not fiddly like Garmin. I am a little jealous that it doesn’t have a Garmin connect-like web based interface, but RWGPS fills that gap for me.
In the early days of the first version Elemnt, they were compatible with Garmin Connect. After Wahoo took a few swipes at Garmin in their adverts, Garmin blocked Wahoo compatibility. You can still plug your wahoo into your desktop or laptop, copy the .fit files to your computer, and then log into Garmin Connect with your browser to upload the files from your computer.
An AD I actually didn't skip over!
Thanks - I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make it interesting. :)
Literally came back to this vid just to find that ad again
Great roundup Ray. I've been on Garmin since I started with an Etrex in 2008 making cycling routes on Garmin Basecamp, jumping to the Edge series with the 810, 510, 520, 1000, etc. and now on the x40s, along with Forerunner and Fenix watches. I prioritize battery life, readable road names on maps and a deep web site with all my uploaded data. Garmin devices occasionally have been glitchy but they've always taken care of my issues via customer service without a lot of hassle. Things on the software side seemed to get better after your post a couple years ago making the case for improvements -- I do think that got their attention.
I have to agree %100. I had an Edge 200 that was randomly glitching, but then had an Edge 800 that worked flawlessly for many years. I even replaced it’s battery once so my wife could get a few years use out of it., after I tried a Wahoo Elemnt just to see what hubub was about.
It was okay, but in many ways an obvious step backwards. Too many external apps/sites, and paid subscriptions are required to bring the functionality anywhere close to that of a mid-tier Garmin Edge.
Then I got an Edge 830, and it has been 100% trouble free since day one.
Thanks for the great review. I’ve got the 840 after upgrading from the 830. I just love the integration of data from my Epix, Marq and Edge, no matter which of the 3 devices I use! It gives you a pretty holistic view of all your activities including health metrics. And while I don’t have the time to organize my life along the recommendations from my devices, its quite motivating to get off the couch and on the road in order to keep your training status in the green.
Yup, that's one area I didn't really touch on here. I think in general, if you've got a Garmin watch, it's probably best to get a Garmin bike comptuer for that integration/etc (at least if you care about the physio/training load type metrics).
@@Dcrainmaker You know what I do and I'm sure many do is dual record on my Garmin FR 955 and my Wahoo Bolt v2. I love my Garmin watch but I also love the Wahoo so I live in 2 worlds :)
@@Dcrainmaker if you've got the watch it can do that from any activity source I would expect, it does from Zwift (training load etc). So the question is should you pay for it all again with this device. I think it does some cool stuff for du/triathlons though that i need to look into as i cant decide between the wahoo roam v2 and the 1040
I have been watching Ray since 2014 or before, when it was way smaller super nerdy with limited navigation, mostly Garmin and raw data, and the world had much less understanding of power, VO2 etc, only difference, Ray is just as good, if not better. I've been using an Edge 520 since then and now it got slower and unresponsive at rides. Thanks for the comparison, I was sold on Edge 840 after your initial review, now there's no doubt what I am getting next. Keep amazing, and congrats to the lady on triathlon finish and age-level win. Bravo!
Thanks - much appreciated!
Thanks for the super thorough review, Ray. I’ve been waiting to look too closely at the Karoo 3 until you put this out. 😅 I tried a Bolt V2 initially, but it had basically 0 trail coverage near me for MTB (only one of like 10 nearby systems had coverage) so it went back. Returned it for a Karoo 2, that I mostly liked, just had some lag at times and was scared off of it due to low battery life reports, returned that for an 840 because I have a Garmin watch. First unit was warrantied, and have been having what seems like a new issue every time I ride with its replacement. It really seems like every SW update fixes 2 things but breaks 2 more, and it’s been frustrating. Considering hopping back into Karoo land, and giving up the Garmin watch connectivity to just have a stable computer to use, where I don’t have to worry about it deleting important rides or restarting itself several times in the middle of navigating an event. This is all super useful info/comparison.
I love my Wahoo Roam v2 mainly for its lights and ease of use. The lights can be applied to various metrics making it super easy to track exact stats that you need, mainly use it for Varia radar, would be nice to have it extended out just a bit more like for gradient but oh well. No touchscreen/Di2 page scrolling functionality is another nice feature to make it easy to navigate the various pages without an accidental touch movement. When you are moving on a bike you don't want to have to fiddle around with this type of stuff.
The GPS part though? I do short quick 5 mile rides outside of my house and the GPS tracking recently got all wonky with it sitting right over buildings and not starting the climb segments with it not showing the current road grade so I am currently waiting for a replacement unit to solve this issue. Not sure how it tracks vs the other 2 units but I'd love to see boot up time factored. Having to wait for the unit to fully boot up before setting off is annoying and that is with a short walk factored in.
Have been using the K2, just upgraded to the K3 ... even though it could be a bit "snappier," it's navigation, screen, strava live segments are so good.
Best combo: for all cycling metrics a Garmin Fenix/Epix/Forerunner (even an older model is totally fine) and for Navigation Wahoo Roam V2 or Karoo 3. :)
What I notice with Wahoo re-routing is that it will try to get you back onto your route as close to the point where you diverted from it as possible. That means your rejoin can be 10m away and still it wants you to go back 5km through some random roads. Once you join your track again it is fine however. But you will have to do some on the fly routing yourself with the map screen. Good thing I played so much Driver as a kid so I can do that quickly without stopping.
Yeah, this is so odd mistake to have for rerouting. Really annoying too.
The Garmin gives you 3 different options for rerouting. I like that option!
Wahoo Roam 2 on my bike just because of its great food reminder. Have also the Karoo2, good but missing a food reminder (people are asking since years….). Garmin is a total mess with a menu that is all but intuitive. Thanks for the review.
While both Garmin/Wahoo do have nutrition reminders, I do like Wahoo's customization of it (I have gummy bears on mine).
@@Dcrainmaker How do you set up the food reminders? That sounds like a great feature.
Garmin has food, water, miles, time, reminder. Smh
I am so unhappy with Garmin (830), despite only ever having Garmin. And the problem is not something you discuss. It is updates, and fixes. Garmin just seems to leave support off after about a year. Things never get fixed. I really think this aspect needs to be part of reviews. You act like all these units work as advertised, but I find that only sometimes. Things like getting the phone to connect; seems to work only at random on my Garmin. I would jump at an alternative if I thought it would be better, but I can't find that sort of info.
Agreed. Went from Garmin to Wahoo years ago because my unit randomly and completely dropped all my ride data several times. Then I started having connectivity problems where my data wouldn't upload. I think I've had my Wahoo like 6 years and other than some wifi issues when I'm staying at hotels, I have had none of these problems.
Did you try filing a warranty claim when it was still within warranty period? Easy to do on the website. My 830 has been flawless since day 1. It really sounds like you have a bad unit.
I have the same issue with my fenix. If you look at the comments in the App Store, this new app version has borked a lot of things.
That’s a good point. My Garmin was a hot mess where every firmware update was a crapshoot whether it would randomly break something that worked before.
Same here. Bought a Garmin 830 and always have problems. No week, were I can simply ride my bike. Will change to Wahoo or Hammerhead.
I was a Garmin user for years and switched to the Karoo 2 a little over a year ago. I love the interface and navigation compared to my Garmin. I use the KI2 app for my DI2 integration and I'm content with that. Native support would be optimal, but lawyers will be lawyers! 😢
"but lawyers will be lawyers!" - Or, adults sometimes be children...
My favorite feature in the karoo is in the climbing mode, it slices the climb in 100m chunks and shows the percentage. It's great to deal with difficult climbs. It's litteraly the only feature that makes me remain in this ecosystem.
Agree, it's handy. Especially now that the data is getting better in Europe (previously it was kinda hot garbage).
@@Dcrainmakerwell, I can only speak from my experience, and in CH/DE/FR it works pretty well. ;)
@@Dcrainmaker I wonder how they are making it get better. They take from openstreetmap, and any errors there are projected straight into the Karoo. Near my place the karoo shows a 40% climb when riding a flat along a river. When I looked into OSM, they had a large hill bulging well into the river there.
Got one, was time to try something new...
I used mine K3 for the last week (road , gravel , mtb) coming from a Garmin 840:
- Climber works well but it not as intuitive as the 840, the scrolling gradients is a very strange way to display it, and follow your progression on the climb
- No descent gradients or color coding, just distance (elevation remaining graph), also think the 840 its better here, its very useful in long rides, so you can “see” whats ahead of you and for how long.
- Battery goes fast (10% per hour with navigation), but I don’t ride for 10hrs+
Otherwise, the navigation is fantastic, setup and integration with phone/strava/dashboard is very intuitive, no bugs so far or issues (had several with my 840 + Garmin navigation is horrible, hence the change to this unit)
Happy so far, just wish they would learn a bit from Garmin on the visualisation of climbs and descents, once you have it you really miss it.
You can speed up rhe reaction times of the k3 by dropping the animation times via the dev setting tap build 3x 👍
I’d just like to say I bought my 1040 just before the Karoo 3 came out. I’m keeping my 1040, it’s awesome. I rode 100 miles and used 8% of the battery yesterday. The wind app is also amazing.
I like the wahoo, it's really intuitive and does the basics extremely well. If you need more features grab the garmin, but to me it's just too cluttered with features and options I'll never use. And navigating through the menus looks like hell to me.
DC. It seems clear in this video and also consistent with my experience that if you are a serious “time crunched “ athlete that just needs to turn on your device and have it work , then Garmin is the way to go. Good video.
Brilliant video Ray . Very insightful . I've been a Garmin user for years but with every model of bike computer I've owned the 810,830,130 plus I've had software issues and glitches. EVERY computer I have had to send back to Garmin to get fixed or usually replaced and I just can't be bothered with the software unreliability anymore . Today I've sent back my Garmin 1030 plus AGAIN as it refuses to turn off and won't load . It's the 2nd replacement ! Garmin are great when they work but for me reliability is poor, no question. You've just convinced me to try something else and go for the Karoo 3.
I used garmin hr monitors years ago, each one failed. Moved over to fitbit, same problem (all 7). Moved on to polar and no issues whatsoever in 5 yrs.
With Karoo 2 you needed internet connection when you want to create a route and the number of POI’s was very limited. Also the maps did not seem to have much details. I purchased the Karoo 2 when they launched it a few years ago, but I returned it! (No problem to send back and I got my money back without any problem.)
I now use the Garmin 1030 (after using Garmin Explore 1000 for a few years) and I am still very happy with it! I do install the maps from VeloMaps, mainly to have more POI’s in the memory.
Another great advantage for the Garmin is the great battery!
I have now cycled about 35000 km with my bike and those two Garmins (including trip from Belgium to North Cape and back, and last year from Belgium to Turkey and back) and no problems at all!
Thumbs up for Garmin!
I also had a Karoo 2 and found it got confused when I accidentally went off route. It could've been bad signal or my error.
Is there a difference between Garmin and karoo in terms of gps signal quality?
Awesome review as always Ray! Re: Garmin incident detection. From what I can tell and your reviews, it seems to work fine on the road, but many people I know that ride offroad end up turning it off due to false positives. It seems to use simple thresholds that trigger the algo more often in offroad conditions.
I would love to see all three manufacturers continue to innovate in the cycling safety space.
re the HH app, it is indeed basic but its only been out a few weeks and, knowing HH, it will no doubt get multiple updates and improvements in the very near future. And its ability to push google map pins onto the K3 is almost reason enough to get that device imo!
once again Ray knocks it outta the park with his video. Torn between getting a Roam v2 or an 840... this will be my first bike computer and sick of using my cell phone in the quadlock mount. leaning towards the Garmin as I still use my 945 and HRM pro strap.. but the price of the Roam is a bit better. Thank Ray !!!
This is an awesome test, perfectly done! It made my decision easy, thx al lot!
I would have been interested to hear some discussion on post-purchase software support. Garmin seem happy to crap on Edge x30 owners from a great height by not offering the new UI on those units, whereas Hammerhead seem to go out of their way keep older units updated, with Wahoo somewhere in between. I understand Garmin's business reasons for it but I think they underestimate the good will created by supporting older units when the time comes for the customer to replace those units.
Practically speaking, if we look at release timeframes, they're actually pretty similiar, especially now that both Wahoo and Hammerhead have gotten beyond the V1 versions, we're basically seeing them on similiar "how long do we support things". It's been a notable shift for both companies. Heck, even though Hammerhead is still updating the Karoo 2, we already see breakaways (structured workout player is different between V2 and V3, as an example).
@@Dcrainmaker Then we are pretty poorly served by the cycling tech industry. Perhaps not a fair comparison, but iOS17 is supported back through 7 generations. I don't think it's too much to ask to have two generations covered by the same firmware and let the hardware upgrades, such as they are, speak for themselves.
Not offering a new UI is hardly "crapping" on users of older hardware.
They still receive updates and fixes, and maybe they don't get the new UI because it would not run well on old hardware.
.
My 830 worked great when I bought it years ago, and it still works perfectly today.
.
I see no reason to have a different UI.
If I thought I needed a new UI, I'd buy a new computer because new software always runs best on new hardware.
.
Nobody "needs" any of this stuff anyway.
I attained a wuite high fitness level with a wired Avocet v.1.0 back in the 80's. Speed, Distance, ride time.
Excellent summary of the bike computer from different competitors.
Karoo Hh3 would be interesting option to try but this time decided to purchase Garmin 540 solar due to sale in my local store.
If you just like to ride and don’t care about having every single training metric and feature available to you, the Wahoo can’t be beat. It’s the most user friendly and super reliable. I don’t need the clutter of the Garmin
Thanks as always Ray. Definitely looking into Gran Canaria vacation
I went with the Roam v2 as I got an incredible deal. Been happy with it, but wish they had a Garmin-like ecosystem for training. I have the Epix 2 watch, so I see all the metrics available in Garmin.
Do I ditch Wahoo for Garmin? The 1040 is now on discount....so maybe...but...
I borrowed a Garmin 840 and from a visibility standpoint it's been my experience that the Garmin screen has issues with reflections that make the Garmin less easy to view in direct sunlight than the Roam v2. Again, that's my experience YMMV.
I may do a DCR and pick up a discounted 1040 and run the two units simultaneously. Keep the winner and sell the other unit.
Be well. Way to go Bobbi on the win.
I use the Garmin Explore 2, but traveling between US and EU, discovered that with limited internal storage I can't have both US and EU maps and the process of removing/loading maps through Garmin Express PC app is surprisingly buggy and time consuming. I'd love a unit that can hold more maps or makes the loading process easier (e.g. via phone app, or directly on the unit). Wish you didn't skip over this part in your otherwise thorough and excellent review.
Not sure why you missed out the TwoNav Aventura 2. IMO the best there is! I've had an original TwoNav Aventura for over 10 years and it's still going strong. It's flown and hit things a few times during my mountain biking and survived. The screen is big enough to view while riding along and you are able to adjust the route line width to see it more clearly.
Thanks for the effort! Since I've got a Garmin Fenix for running and swimming an Edge is pretty much a requirement and ties in much better than it's competitors.
I just wish Garmin would make their Strava segment screen as customizable as the rest, it's missing some key options.
Enjoy the video. I'm looking for a head unit, was thinking of the Garmin edge explore 2 as only need it for navigation. I've using a Lezyne mega xl at the minute. So would like to see a video on the Garmin explore 2 please
Have a 530 and looking to upgrade to 840 soon…good info!
Consider 1040 also. It is discounted at some stores and you can get it for les then 500.
I had the Garmin and just got the Wahoo. Don't get another Garmin! Buy the Wahoo, you won't regret it. No more devious submenus created by a company deliberately making it difficult for its customers.
Top video Ray. Best regards Martin
Great review 👍
Myst admit though I am still shopping for a solution to connect my insulin pump (Medtronic) to a GPS directly, instead of via an iphone.
As soon as Medtronic, Hammerhead or Garmin release that, I’ll be the first to order. No matter the price 🤞🤞
I bought the Edge 540 and happy with it.
I think I'm leaning towards the Karoo for the better screens and using my Garmin watch for the physiological metrics.
Me too. I have an Epix Pro which is my recording device for every activity and health/fitness metric. On the bike, my Karoo gives me a great display and navigation plus a backup recording if I forget to start the Garmin.
Currently on Amazon US the 840 with both speed, cadence and the HRM Dual heart rate strap is $399.00 😁
Feed with the Karoo2 mount breaking Multiple times. On a Wahoo Roam V2 now
I just had my karoo 2 mount break for the 3rd time in 4 years...yeah I'll be switching back to Garmin or Wahoo now.
I bought my Wahoo Roam a couple days before this video came out. Think I might have gone with the Garmin after watching this video. Still happy w my purchase though - thanks for the video!
Hope you enjoy it!
The video doesn't do a good job of explaining how user friendly the Roam is. I just used it for the first time yesterday and I can't believe how much better the Roam is than the Garmin. DON'T BUY A GARMIN. I had a Garmin 520 plus for about 3 years and I could never figure out how to get navigation to work. I was able to get a route on the Roam in about 5 minutes while setting it up. I wish I bought the Roam years ago. You made the right choice. btw, I had a long time Garmin user help me with the Garmin and she was struggling with it because it wasn't the touch screen. Most unintuitive device I've ever purchased. I should be able to sell it to one of the many brainwashed sheep who like Garmin products.
@@holdencaulfied7492The Garmin Edge 520 was released in April 2015, over 9 years ago. It’s not at all like the Edge 840 I compared here. (And the Edge 520 Plus in 2018, some 6 years ago).
For me personally, the Garmin training plan ecosystem is a major differentiator. I use the Garmin training plans (cycling) and the suggested workouts (running). I'm not serious enough or wealthy enough to pay for personal coaching, but I do like to have some structure to my workouts. If you add in the monthly fees for 3rd party training apps to get the equivalent of the included Garmin plans for the other devices, you are paying a lot more for them. I've found the Garmin cycling training plans ideal for cycling Gran Fondo events I've done, and the Garmin Connect calendar feature works well for me too.
I don't know a cyclist out there using Gamrin training.
i'd be curious to see a deeper dive into the comparison between navigation on the different devices. This may have been corrected on newer Garmins, but whenever you go off course on my edge 530, it always wants me to make a u-turn even when there is a perfectly viable route on it.
additionally, if i were to go off course and make a u-turn to get back on course, my garmin seems to always tell me to go the wrong direction on the road that I came from rather than the way I am supposed to go. I know hammerhead really marketed smarter navigation features with the karoo 2, but I didn't hear any mention of those.
Also, obviously where you live is a much more bike-friendly area, but I have had my Garmin direct me on roads that are unsafe for cyclists (I'm not a wuss; roads that literally no one rides on) instead of taking a safer, more popular route. Additionally, the automatic route creation is close to unusable in my area as it takes me on dangerous roads. I am not sure it even references the heat map data at all...
I have a very disappointing experience with my Edge 840. Navigation is hard to see and follow, the colors make no sense especially on the sun with sunglasses. Ad hock navigation is not reliable. I was 4kms in a straight line to the beginning of a bike race in Granada. It calculated a 25kms route to get there! It’s just unreliable. Had to use google maps to get there. Also the integration with the phone it’s crazy slow. Finish a route, takes more then 45m to upload to Garmin connect. Also to download routes takes forever. Stop creating new features and work on the core functions.
Something may be wrong with your device specifically, my ride uploads are always fast (under 30s), longest route download I've done was for a 300km route with dozens of poi points and that was a 15s download.
Agree with most of your comments. I don’t have much of a delay but the user experience to navigate somewhere is horrendous for a company that has been producing gps for ages. I feel like this review is too afraid to point out garmins negatives.
Wish I could get into this guys style but my brain starts to go into overdrive trying to take in all the info he puts out , you have to pause and go back and forth with his efforts , I like the hard work he does it’s just a bit to much 😵💫
Watch at 0.75x speed 😜
Graet review, thanks, staying with my garmin ❤
I'm very satisfied with my Roam v1, and will likely upgrade to the v2 eventually.
I just wish they'd have different profiles for different bike disciplines...
I used my Roam V2 for the first time yesterday (first Wahoo bike computer) for MTB and it worked great, already easier and better than the Garmin and it was only the first ride. I haven't used a V1 so not much to compare it to and probably not worth the upgrade. Coming from a Garmin, the Wahoo is way better, don't even consider thinking of switching to Garmin.
Not sure if I missed it earlier, but 500k subscribers! Way to go!
Great comparison thanks. I didn't realise the battery life difference was actually quite noticeable between the models. I wonder if the Garmins are the preference of bikepackers.
I used a Elemnt Bolt for years
and now use a Bolt V2 (color). 2 major problems: they ALWAYS fall behind on Nav routing directions on longer rides. After awhile they’ll be telling you about an upcoming turn hundreds of feet after you already turned.
The other is they’re fundamentally incapable of not going off course on live segments in hilly/tree’d areas. Here in Northern California, you’ve always got >50% chance of it deciding you’re no longer on a segment and no longer showing live stats- even though after the fact the gps data is perfect. I’ve been having these problems for 10 years now across 2 computers. It’s nuts.
The Roam V2 has dual GPS receivers and is on par with the Garmin and Karoo now.
I've been doing a lot of video viewing on the igps, wahoo, bryton, and hammerhead videos, especially compared to Garmin.
I think based on your reviews that the K3 is going to suit me best. I like the Wahoo, but everyone seems to agree on how sluggish it is on navigating (slow to refresh when you turn, etc), as well as its lacking in its climbing feature.
The sleek interface and display is a big factor, and that the K3 while not cheap won't break the bank like Garmin and much better support. I don't have electronic drive trains, so compatability isn't an issue for me at all.
Awesome comparison. Lots of details. How does Bryton S800 compare to these?
Mapping and navigation: I dislike how poor Garmin's maps are in terms of colours and such. You hardly see what's around. Is that a park, a forest, a field? Just like at around 9:30 you only see a road in the middle of nowhere. It also makes free riding and planning hard without knowing the surroundings.
Awesome review Ray!
What a great compare video. Not yet ready to upgrade my 830 but I like the new Garmin interface. Question on navigation though, when going off route on the Garmin 830 in my experience it will navigate you back to (where you left?) the route instead of the shortest or fastest way to the route. Especially in domestic area's I find that annoying. What is your experience amongst these brands or devices? (or can I adjust it in the 830) Thanks Ray, keep up the good work.
I moved from Garmin to Wahoo then back to Garmin after buying a Garmin watch for trueup features etc. If I’m being honest I miss the simplicity of the Wahoo while out on rides. Hard to explain but the on bike experience is just better with Wahoo IMO.
Hi I am just looking for one with easy to read navigation thats all i need nothing else. Can i ask your thoughts? thanks
@@redauwg911 The opposite of what I just said but if all you care about is navigation I’d go Garmin.
@@jaredstrauss617 thank you
@@redauwg911 BUY THE WAHOO. Don't buy anything from Garmin unless you like submenus and confusion. I just switched from Garmin to Wahoo Roam V2 and I wish I had done it years ago.
Jared, the Wahoo experience is way better. You should switch back.
SRAM/Hammerhead recently published the fact that they have no timeline for a developer SDK for the K3. This means apps like Ki2 (for Di2) or Xert, etc. don't work and likely won't work in the mid-term or ever. I like the responsiveness over my Garmin, but I sent the K3 back and went from 530 to 840 instead. Anticompetitive shit (from Shimano) and ecosystem lockdown (from SRAM) sucks!
Waiting for HH/SRAM to send over their official plan/timeline. They previously said it would be slightly delayed from launch, but that it did have a timeline. I saw the customer service comment, but often that's not necessarily the product team communications.
I am generally fairly happy with my Edge 840 but I have to say the map/navigation view is pretty big letdown for me.
The colour scheme is just not great and it’s sometimes hard to tell where you are meant to go at a glance.
You can change the theme to make the colours more clear but that requires digging around in config files. Once it’s set up it works fine but Garmin could definitely give you more options on the device itself.
Another thing that bugs me about the Garmin is that it’s simply not possible to reverse a course on the device. I have several pre-planned routes in my area that I commonly ride but if I want to go in the opposite direction (maybe due to wind the day) it is simply not possible on device.
So overall I’d say the Edge does most things quite well but Garmin is a bit too focussed on adding more new features than cleaning up older stuff and providing a great user experience.
I started with the Wahoo Bolt, the data wouldn't jive with Strava when I get a KOM in the device and im 2 seconds off in Strava, that was enough for me to get a Garmin 830, it was perfect, data was on point, sometimes even better when it hit strava. I just bought the Karoo 3, cause navigating with the 830 has caused me to drop my phone 3 times and demolished screens... Im hoping the karoo will be as accurate to strava segment KOM data, while able to send google maps directions direct to the unit 🤞
Geeze you are clumsy!
@@emziemann lol, phones are getting massive now; drafting at 25 mph and navigating can be challenging
Love the review! I'm about to change from my well used 810 and I'm on the fence between 840 and 1030 plus. Any thoughts on that? Is the 1030 plus too outdated? I have just seen on a good offer in a bundle in hrm priced well below 840
Buy the Wahoo. The interface is way better than Garmin. I can't speak about the Hammerhead (other than it has the best name).
Hey DC, since you are all plugged into the industry. Do you see Wahoo coming up with an updated Computer anytime soon. Did not want to get a V2 one if there was V3 on the horizon? Thanks great stuff as always.
I was in the same boat as you and just bought the Roam V2. It's so much clearer and easier to use than the Garmin that I don't care if they come out with the V3, I'll just buy that and use the V2 on another bike.
Thanks!
My old Bolt finally died on me after years of service and the verdict is out, I am just getting a Garmin.
I just hope it syncs my rides as well as Wahoo did 🤞
Don't buy a Garmin, after having a Wahoo you'll regret it. Get Wahoo Roam V2. The Garmin interface I believe was designed by war criminals.
@@holdencaulfied7492 other than the interface, what else is bad about a Garmin?
Nice review, but I got 1040 for 480eur. There are few stores at this price, so for 30 bucks more it was no brainer to chose it over 840. Didn't find 840 discounted yet, since it is newer device.
Moved from Garmin to hammerhead as I could not justify the cost of a new Garmin after my wife thru out my brand new 830! another story and I got the k2 on a deal, been enjoying it so far, maps are good, screen and batt life has been also Ok so far. Been really good in Mallorca for directions, on maps , Garmin was clearer and simple while HH feels more a phone. Finding a few glitches loading routes when shared from a friends ( garmin/strava) .. I like the climber function on the HH and the strive segments are good segments are single or combined if there right after each other , Also loading to stave HH is not as good as Garmin, the HH app could be much better like garmin, HH updates are good every week or few weeks, But if I were buying from new with no issue of budgets I would go Garmin again I think.
Please review some Bryton GPS computers? I have Rider 750 SE and it is really great for it’s price
Do you know if heart rate can be displayed while on Strava Live segment screen on Roam V2 ? I miss this on my 530
After years with garming I bought wahoo bolt v2 and oh my gosh, it’s much better.
I would recommend trying the Trimm Two from Trimm. A South Korean company making white and black, iphone 4 styled bike computer that features navigation, personalized data display, accurate GPS and so on. Most of all, it is quite affordable for it's features and design.
At least where I live is almost impossible to find the 840 and the 1040 is always on sale around 450€ for the non solar. Probably will take that one to pair with my fênix
Yeah, if all else is equal price-wise, I'd just get the Edge 1040. Only 'downside' is the Edge 1040 doesn't have the extra dedicated up/down buttons of the Edge 840, but hasn't really been an issue.
I have the Wahoo Roam V2 and that thing gets lost at least 1-2 times per ride. For example, if you have some overlap on a route or the route says to go left, U-turn, and then keep going in your original direction it will not give me breadcrumbs to get back on route. Several times two days ago i would go where it was telling me and then just have to ride around in a circle until it figured out where i needed to be again. Big reason i ride with my phone out front so that i can zoom in on Komoot and see where i actually need to go. Very annoying.
Curious, which road bike do you own? I just purchased Trek Domane SL 5 Gen 4 and love it. Thanks for the video. I also purchased the Garmin 840 based on your other video.
I've got an older Canyon as my primary one. But this is just a loaner testing out the SRAM RED stuff, so it's the new Specialized Roubaix.
Wahoo has bugs on some data fields, e.g. Ant+ LEV, which is not fixed since month.
As a long term customer I would appreciate if bugs are fixed fast (especially if they break something).
I have a 1030 plus love it but Garmin is not sending more updates since a year. Now ai bought a Wahoo Roam v2. Love the screen and the app. But I also have an Epix watch and I love the integration of Garmin edge and Epix. Really don’t know what computer will stay with me on the future…the Roam v2 or maybe a 840 solar
Best video ever.. Was it not worth a 2 sec mention that wahoo pages still annoyingly only swipe 1 direction (like my Nokia cell phone from 15 yrs ago) while hh and g swipe both ways.. Go!
Thank you
Regarding usability you have to keep in mind that your are a power user of those devices for years now. Therefore I might assume that you are so accustomed to use even a Garmin computer. For me coming from an old Elemnt Bolt and currently switching to Garmin for the first time, I'm very much overwhelmed by the features and settings. It's pretty hard for me and I need to search the internet in order to find a way of setting up the 1040.
Don't do it! Return it and get the Wahoo Roam V2. I just got it, coming from a Garmin 520 plus and it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay simpler and better. Dare I say it makes cycling more fun?
You should have no difficulty selling the 1040 to one of the legions of brainwashed sheep who buy Garmins. Why did you switch from Wahoo to Garmin? Likely one of the brainwashed sheep told you to get a Garmin. It's not too late for you, walk away from the cult and return to Wahoo!!
I think you have a other Garmin device than I had. Navigition on it is stressfull, turn notification are late, so late that you most of the time you miss your turn and need to turn around. Notification like "dangerous turn ahead" is sometimes given when you already leave the turn.
Which exact unit/model do you have?
@@Dcrainmaker I had the 1030+
@@koenvercammen2259 Yeah, there was some pretty big bumps in performance (calculation specifically) between the x30 series and the x40 series. It's massive (I think in one of my x40 reviews I showed side-by-side recall times).
Can you test the Bike Computer: Sigma 12.1?
Great review, as always!
Thanks!!!
Nice detailed vid as always! But I guess for regular cyclists ride for fun and fitness, smartphone with a free cycling app would be much better than 500$ dedicated specialty device…
the bottom plate of the Wahoo mount is removable they should include an extra one with the GoPro mount. That missed opportunity right there
Agreed. That and it should have come with a tether. But it's such a good product, I'm okay with spending $10 for the tether and $15 for the combo mount on Amazon. I'm still hundreds of dollars ahead than if I had bought a Garmin.
Great video - anyone catch the very last comment? (June is going to be very busy)? Garmin 1050 ???
At 13:36 in to the video, all 3 displays are showing “Ouderkerk aan de Amstel > Het Klein Kalfje”. It’s a mainly fish restaurant in The Netherlands. How is that in Gran Canaria?
BTW, to all you (push)bikers it’s well worth visiting this restaurant. It’s mainly fish on the menu. But they also serve Wagyu burgers, Sirloin steaks, Tournedos, Chateau briand, pastas, risottos, etc. They have excellent food and drinks for a reasonable price.
Yup, some of my screen recordings failed of Strava Live Segment comparisons, so I had to fall back on one I did on the street I basically live on. :)
@@DcrainmakerAh, fair enough.
Ray is garmin ever going to release the new edge 130/140
I'm not sure what their thinking is in that area. I agree it seems to be a bit stale. I suspect they look at the falling prices of stuff like the previous gen units Garmin Edge 5xx units and Wahoo BOLT V1 units, and realize it's not all that different.
Incredible & Thanks Sir :)
Great video comparisson. The best out there. I know it's a feature comparison but how about battery life?
I cover battery life in the video in the battery section :)
@@Dcrainmaker sorry man missed it as someone interrupted me as I was watching the video. Went back to rewatch it sorry for bothering you.
It would be great if you could somehow compare these units on an "it just works" basis. I have seen many issues where unit software and backend services are broken or unreliable -- things like route sync failures, live tracking not working, spontaneous unit reboot/hang, corrupted data that requires companion app removal/re-installation or factory reset of the unit, stuff that gets broken when new features are added (firmware "whack-a-mole").
In bright light the Wahoo is ahead in screen visibility..I got fed up with the reflective screen of my Garmin
+1. For me, it's a clear win. Cannot talk about the K3 but owning both a 1040 and a Roam v2, I never could get used to that Garmin screen too difficult to read for my eyes : it's both a matter of UI and screen reflections. The Roam was a game changer : so clear, crispy and easy to read.
@@CasablancaDriver friend has a Karoo, it's like a mobile phone, better than the Garmin, but not as good as the Wahoo
@@CasablancaDriver I had a Garmin Edge 520 Plus for 3 years and hated it. I've had the Wahoo Roam V2 for 3 days and I'm a Wahoo customer for life now.
I was shocked when I found out after buying the Garmin 1040 that the strava live segments do not work during navigation. In addition, Garmin limits you to max. 100 favorite strava segments - that's very little!!! I still can't understand why Garmin solves the control of the screens so that you close one screen with the button in the middle of the bottom line, another with the X in the lower right corner, and another with the arrow in the upper left corner!!! It's anything but not intuitive. So ease of use is horrible on Garmin vs. Wahoo which was my previous unit. Wahoo isnt perfect but for me is much better than Garmin. Also matte screen on Wahoo doesnt need any backlight and its still perfect readable and contrasty against Garmin screen which i often cant read because reflections on gloosy screen ruin contrast and readability.
Biggest minus for Wahho is absence of possibility to list to previous page.
Fwiw, they do work during navigation, but only with routes from Strava (Strava Routes). Definitely annoying.
What about the famous Garmin connectivity problems? Do Wahoo and Hammerhead also experience similar issues?
I’m not aware of any famous Garmin connectivity problems for at least 2-3 years.
Congrats to win the race!