When I was considering these amps when they came out, I talked to my amp tech and he said "save your money kid." When asked why, he said, "less than a year in and I've had nearly all the ones we sold in for repairs. They're like a Bill Gates factory and not reliable. Shame on Marshall!" Turns out, as you have proven, he was right. I miss Chuck (RIP) he was an honest man and a great tech. Thanks for your videos, Lyle.
I am all too familiar with Trashall's DSL and TSL boards that will not let some voltages stabilize because the boards conduct electricity. Older Kenwood ham radios had a conformal coating that became conductive over 10 or 15 or 20 years , but if you depopulate the boards, remove the coatings, those boards are not at all conductive. You can rebuild them. Marshall and Fender are just names now, and neither one has had any quality reputation attached to their amps for a couple of decades now.
Excellent couple of videos regarding the TSL you've put out. There is no question that the early revision mother boards will eventually cause bias drift and eventually red plate your SED Winged-C EL-34's! I experienced this twice before finding a forum that explained why my tubes were burning up. This was many years ago when this issue wasn't as well documented as it is nowadays. Your videos will surely help others in understanding what they're dealing with, with the TSL's. I can also confirm that a Rev 20 mother board fixed the issue for me. My original was a Rev 5 just like the one in your first video. Shame on Marshall for not doing the right thing though .The TSl-100 was my main amp for many years and I loved cranking that sucker up. Anyway, thanks for posting
I Love the JCM DSL/TSL amps! I’ve bought a handful, gutted them and installed my own “SLO” type circuit with reverb. You can’t beat $250 for a chassis, cab and iron. I should do an Overdrive Special type thing next, or maybe a straight up AB763 Twin.
Did a lot of mods on my tsl 122. It was the first tube amp I ever worked on. Stock it sounds like shit but I got it sounding great but it is to noisy for my applications. After watching your videos, specially your restoration of that butchered super lead with new turretboard design, I felt more confident and built a super lead amp with a extra gain stage Jose Arrendando style. I got some really good ideas from your videos like lead dress, grounding, master volume and were to use shielded wires. Your channel is so great thank you. The amp turned out great no noise or hum. Thank you for showing that great amp design don’t need to be overly complicated. I really wish amp manufacturers would listen to you. Until they do I will build my own amps!
If you have replaced the board: you are warned to replace both bias pots. The pots fail frequently and often. You are warned to replace the "16 ohm only" jack because the jack switch contacts burn up.
I used to use the TSL 60W 1x12 combo live. It was practical for covering a wide range of tunes. It sounded great when turned up to the 1 o'clock position. That was 25 years ago. Still works, but doesn't get played anymore.
I used to have a tsl 100. Sold it due to money issues but I used it for gigs for 5 years without a problem. It was my favorite amp I've owned. I'm saddened to find out the build quality is so bad because I was wanting to buy another one. I've had 3 Marshalls and never had problems. I've had 6 Fenders and had problems with 4 of them, 2 Mesas no problems, 2 Peveys both had problems. Go figure
I was watching through your fender reissue problems videos, do the "57 custom" amps have the same problems? At the price point they are asking are they built with better parts?
I have my early 2000s JCM2000 DSL100 that I have had since new fry a board a couple of years ago. Dickhead me tried plugging it into my Mesa SOB combo Black Shadow speaker, and forgetting about the impedance mismatch compared to my 16ohm 4x12 Marshall cabinet, played it for a minute, before a fizzle and a ton of smoke.
Great video as always Lyle. I was just wondering why you always demo the amps with the controls facing away from the camera? Is it a safety thing? Thanks!
Thanks. I don’t always, but here I was testing after measuring voltages and I prefer to have the output tubes nearest me for that. This isn’t really a “demo” but a bench test that I share.
I’m not a fiberglass specialist but as I understand it there are different grades for different applications. The stuff we want is FR4. But that’s not what Marshall used on the earlier TSL/DSL boards. And here we are.
@@PsionicAudio , Some grades of fiberglass are also considered to be hygroscopic and can absorb water, possibly even from the air. Or so I was told when I was working on boats installing navigational and communications equipment.
Marshall wanted to save < $1 per board and opted for a lower grade fiberglass with poor sealing. Any level of humidity and it became conductive. Pretty much the same as the Takata airbag recall (cheap + water = fail) but without the human death. Also "fixed" amp sounds bad to my ears too ;)
I suggested JJ 6V6gt tubes as being great in a livestream in the last 6 months. And you called out JJ as having lost quality control. Are you a fan of JJ again? What changed?
@@PsionicAudio it’s annoying that the same factory puts out different quality between the different tube types! I have several TAD rebranded JJ tubes. Do you think after going through TAD Q&A it’s a worthy tube - or would you still have reservations?
@@PsionicAudio I have two bargain basement Chinese 5E3 kits to put together. They supplied it with all PSvane tubes. Any experience with those? I am actually a closet fan of the Shuguang tubes. I know a lot of them rattled in Vox amplifiers, but I think to cut the budget, they opted for tubes that didn’t go through a stringent q&a. But ones I purchased through a vendor, I actually think they accomplished the whole Vox chime to a T.
When I was considering these amps when they came out, I talked to my amp tech and he said "save your money kid." When asked why, he said, "less than a year in and I've had nearly all the ones we sold in for repairs. They're like a Bill Gates factory and not reliable. Shame on Marshall!" Turns out, as you have proven, he was right. I miss Chuck (RIP) he was an honest man and a great tech. Thanks for your videos, Lyle.
I am all too familiar with Trashall's DSL and TSL boards that will not let some voltages stabilize because the boards conduct electricity. Older Kenwood ham radios had a conformal coating that became conductive over 10 or 15 or 20 years , but if you depopulate the boards, remove the coatings, those boards are not at all conductive. You can rebuild them. Marshall and Fender are just names now, and neither one has had any quality reputation attached to their amps for a couple of decades now.
Excellent couple of videos regarding the TSL you've put out. There is no question that the early revision mother boards will eventually cause bias drift and eventually red plate your SED Winged-C EL-34's! I experienced this twice before finding a forum that explained why my tubes were burning up. This was many years ago when this issue wasn't as well documented as it is nowadays. Your videos will surely help others in understanding what they're dealing with, with the TSL's. I can also confirm that a Rev 20 mother board fixed the issue for me. My original was a Rev 5 just like the one in your first video. Shame on Marshall for not doing the right thing though .The TSl-100 was my main amp for many years and I loved cranking that sucker up. Anyway, thanks for posting
I Love the JCM DSL/TSL amps! I’ve bought a handful, gutted them and installed my own “SLO” type circuit with reverb. You can’t beat $250 for a chassis, cab and iron. I should do an Overdrive Special type thing next, or maybe a straight up AB763 Twin.
Did a lot of mods on my tsl 122. It was the first tube amp I ever worked on. Stock it sounds like shit but I got it sounding great but it is to noisy for my applications.
After watching your videos, specially your restoration of that butchered super lead with new turretboard design, I felt more confident and built a super lead amp with a extra gain stage Jose Arrendando style. I got some really good ideas from your videos like lead dress, grounding, master volume and were to use shielded wires. Your channel is so great thank you. The amp turned out great no noise or hum. Thank you for showing that great amp design don’t need to be overly complicated. I really wish amp manufacturers would listen to you. Until they do I will build my own amps!
Thanks so much! Glad to hear.
If you have replaced the board: you are warned to replace both bias pots. The pots fail frequently and often. You are warned to replace the "16 ohm only" jack because the jack switch contacts burn up.
I used to use the TSL 60W 1x12 combo live. It was practical for covering a wide range of tunes. It sounded great when turned up to the 1 o'clock position. That was 25 years ago. Still works, but doesn't get played anymore.
I used to have a tsl 100. Sold it due to money issues but I used it for gigs for 5 years without a problem. It was my favorite amp I've owned. I'm saddened to find out the build quality is so bad because I was wanting to buy another one. I've had 3 Marshalls and never had problems. I've had 6 Fenders and had problems with 4 of them, 2 Mesas no problems, 2 Peveys both had problems. Go figure
I was watching through your fender reissue problems videos, do the "57 custom" amps have the same problems? At the price point they are asking are they built with better parts?
I have my early 2000s JCM2000 DSL100 that I have had since new fry a board a couple of years ago. Dickhead me tried plugging it into my Mesa SOB combo Black Shadow speaker, and forgetting about the impedance mismatch compared to my 16ohm 4x12 Marshall cabinet, played it for a minute, before a fizzle and a ton of smoke.
This has inspired me to dig out my JCM2000 DSL and order a new board for it. :)
❤ from 🇨🇦 eh! \m/, ,\m/
Wire a decoupling cap into a guitar lead. Should save your guitars volume pots while diagnosing (and potentially save you from a jolt too).
I have two TSL60s and I love them.
Good on ya. The 60s didn’t have the conductive board issues.
I really liked mine
Great video as always Lyle. I was just wondering why you always demo the amps with the controls facing away from the camera? Is it a safety thing? Thanks!
Thanks. I don’t always, but here I was testing after measuring voltages and I prefer to have the output tubes nearest me for that.
This isn’t really a “demo” but a bench test that I share.
@@PsionicAudio Gotcha. Just curious. I see Im not the only night owl catching up on geeky stuff! Thanks for the reply. Peace..
Good work Lyle
when you pull and then put back a board, is it possible that the physical feel/resistance of the knobs can change as with that process?
No
Unless you damaged something in the process.
What did they make those boards from as they become conductive? I thought that by this era it was pretty much standardized fiberglass laminate?
The glass fiber won't become conductive but the epoxy resins that are used to make fiberglass apparently can.
I’m not a fiberglass specialist but as I understand it there are different grades for different applications. The stuff we want is FR4.
But that’s not what Marshall used on the earlier TSL/DSL boards. And here we are.
@@PsionicAudio , Some grades of fiberglass are also considered to be hygroscopic and can absorb water, possibly even from the air. Or so I was told when I was working on boats installing navigational and communications equipment.
Marshall wanted to save < $1 per board and opted for a lower grade fiberglass with poor sealing. Any level of humidity and it became conductive. Pretty much the same as the Takata airbag recall (cheap + water = fail) but without the human death. Also "fixed" amp sounds bad to my ears too ;)
It sounds exactly as it was designed Ted. ;)
I suggested JJ 6V6gt tubes as being great in a livestream in the last 6 months. And you called out JJ as having lost quality control. Are you a fan of JJ again? What changed?
I said the 6V6s go microphonic in combos and yes, I’ve had vacuum failures with the ECC83s. These are EL34s and have been a good choice.
@@PsionicAudio it’s annoying that the same factory puts out different quality between the different tube types! I have several TAD rebranded JJ tubes. Do you think after going through TAD Q&A it’s a worthy tube - or would you still have reservations?
TADs have been reliable with only one bad tube so far in my experience (vendor swapped, no issue).
@@PsionicAudio I have two bargain basement Chinese 5E3 kits to put together. They supplied it with all PSvane tubes. Any experience with those? I am actually a closet fan of the Shuguang tubes. I know a lot of them rattled in Vox amplifiers, but I think to cut the budget, they opted for tubes that didn’t go through a stringent q&a. But ones I purchased through a vendor, I actually think they accomplished the whole Vox chime to a T.
I’m just dumbfounded by the manufacturers desire to continue to sell junk.
Sounds great!
Well, I’m not a big fan of these amps, but it sounds consistent. So big win.
You don’t know “Nothing” (yep I know, incorrect English , but I’m a Flarda boy) about Marshall! I just can’t help it.🤣
That's not a bug it's a feature 🤣
I would not buy a JCM2000 walk away