The MOST Hated Marshall? TRIPLE SUPER LEAD TSL60 JCM2000
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2023
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Huh. I remember in the early 2000s we all wanted one of these. I had no idea they were disliked.
Same here! I think I actually liked that amplifier better than the Mesa Boogie Rectifier Amps.
My memory is that most people wanted a DSL 50/100, some wanted a TSL100, and nobody wanted a TSL60 or DSL401.
Came here for the amp. Stayed for the playing. Absolutely inspiring
Same
Sounds Great! Modern and Classic. I'm happy to haul off whomever doesn't want theirs!!
This was a very impressive video. I had to rewind a couple times just to confirm that the whole part with the PRS was a single take. After the freestyle lead part, I did not expect time would resume and you'd fall back in with a track. Nice work!
But it wasn't. There is a cut at 3:15 and 4:44
I once had a JCM2000 combo amp... I probably didn't know much about tone then, but I did like that amp! I didn't know some folks don't like this amp. Nice to see John featured it !
John, I never tire of your playing. so melodic!
Yep, me neither!
Absolutely fantastic sound, some of the very best tones you've gotten on the Channel. Really suits your lead playing. The size of the Head looks unwealdy and heavy, but what a tone!
This is the kind of situation where Profiling the Amp makes great sense to me.
This PRS just sounds fantastic and the playing is great. But the usual Strats he plays are... well... different :D
Wow, amazing. Have to say that load boxes are a great invention for getting the most out of this loud amps
I have the 1x12 combo version of this amp (TSL601), It was the first valve amp I ever bought not long after i got my first full time job, and as such feels special to me. Ive always enjoyed it and never felt the need to swap it out. The tones you get from It sound truely great! I think its just become the accepted dogma to hate on this amp, and not often based on actual experience.
Man, incredible face-melting shredding on the DGT, especially on the up-tempo track!!
I have the TSL602 (2x12 Combo). It works perfectly for me. I only use the clean channel and pedals for gain. I have the FX Mix turned up full with just a patch lead in the FX loop to get more volume out of the power amp section. Main downside for me is the weight. I have caster wheels installed to help move it around but it's quite awkward to get up a set of stairs. Would like to hear what it was like with the stock speakers swapped out in the future.
Absolutely mind blown by the playing in the intro
would he have used the effects loop for that?
Played this amp new in the shop. It was a blast!
The early 100 watts had some problems that's where some hate is coming from. But this are such a great sounding and versatile amps. And your video proves that again!
Dude your playing is insane. Gorgeous. You sound like Eric Johnson playing those big chords on the clean channel.
I have an early tsl100 which unfortunately died due to the bias drift issue, currently looking for a replacement board to get it up and running again. Gorgeous sounding amp - the hate is misplaced.
Eric Johnson called. He wants his thunder back!
Finally!! someone who can play & knows how to set up his amp 👍🏻😎
I have a TSL 100 that I had to swap the motherboard out on because it would overheat. Now it’s a beast. I love it.
These amps sound great. But there were quality issues that caused them to fail, including the whole board requiring replacement. That is the source of the bad reputation. Once fixed properly they generally are very good amps. Marshall kept making them *almost all the amps of that general era* with serious flaws - and had too many reliability issues so their brand took a big hit during this era. Too bad - they are good sounding amps. Generally, after fixed they are fairly reliable. I fixed a great number of them.
Even my 1 year old DSL 1 watt head has channel switching noise issues! no idea why maybe some clever folks can tell me thanks
@@johnthornburg4049Does changing the motherboard change the tone of the Crunch and Lead channels? I have the TSL100, and it doesn't have the bias overheating issue. It has a sweet clean, but tje Crunch and Lead channels are flat sounding to me, like the smp is trying too hard. It's pretty sweet when I run Marshall In A Box type overdrives and a Wampler Ego Compressor. Any help would be appreciated!
@@1twangmaster i have a replaced board in mine but the clean sounds just as good. but for some reason my reverb is not working at all now.. but could be the reverb chamber being dead now
Well I'm off to eBay!
Best tone ever on this channel
I did a gig through someones "bad"marshall, and it sounded amazing.
Sounds like that amp has circuitry from the JMP rack unit, which Iron Maiden and slipknot used for donkeys years.
Snap those up!
TSL DSL? damn it...
I've been using the combo version of this amp, with the single speaker, for years now and it's been really good. My only criticisms are it can be quite 'hummy/noisy at times and it weighs a ton. Great for small gigs, open back for mic options in the studio and it can do quiet-ish levels for home use. Lovely warm valve sounds. I've no idea why it gets slated in some circles. Great video and great playing as usual. Cheers
my tsl60 hums too its coming from the output transformer not enough iron
I had the dsl forever it was amazing but it did overheat the valves one melted but it sounded great I used to get compliments on my tone all the time!
I used one of these for a gig in 2005 as a replacement for my old Marshall Anniversary 6100. Had a nightmare, as the switching between the channels wasn’t instant as I was used to from the 6100. Sounded alright, but the switching killed me
Had a TSL100 back in the day. I enjoyed it. More of a "modern" Marshall sound but still useful and versatile. I was lucky and never ran into the issues that others did. Nonetheless, sold it when I started to commit to modelers for my live gigging purposes.
I still own a TSL 602. Great amp that can be dialed in to achieve most sounds you need. Great with pedals too.
The JVM410 is one of the best most versatile amps I have ever played. The only weakness it has is a good metal sound. The JVM has a killer clean tone, a killer crunch tone and a really good rock tone, the thrash tone is pretty good as well.
My dad had the 2x12 combo version for years. It sounded great, but it was so complicated. I've always preferred much simpler layouts like Orange Rocker 30, Vox AC30, etc.
I used to have the TSL100 (100w obviously and it had full controls for each channel) JCM2000 head with a 4x12 1960 lead cab and it was ridiculously glorious haha... The reverb on the TSL100 at least was not digital - you could hear it bounce around if you moved the amp lol... As for why they were 'hated' i think it was more a sign of the times, and not because of the sound... People were wanting a 'metal' amp i think, while the JCM2000 were the last 'real' old school Marshall's if you ask me they sound stunning...
I've been using a TSL602 for a while now, after circumstances forced me to sell my JCM800 half stack. Admittedly, I had to swap out the Wolverines for Greenbacks to calm it down a bit, but the amp is great. I occasionally use it perched on a basketweave 1960B 4x12 for larger spaces and it sounds perfectly sweet to me. I'd have the head, but the flexibility of picking and choosing the speaker set-up works for me.
Hello, Do you get any hum on it after about 45 minutes?
@@jonnysophisticado Not that I've noticed, and it's normally switched on for 10 mins before sound check, then on standby for an hour, before two hour long sets. Mind you, our drummer is an animal and our bassist isn't far behind, so I'm not sure if it would be discernible :D
That sounded fantastic fantastic!
Have the TSL122 combo, yep bias issues with the motherboard. After I had it fixed, it’s a great amp now. Bought new in ‘98. These amps get slammed, but you can’t beat the crunch channel on the TSL.
Wow Jon. You have great technicue!!!
Rock-tions speak louder than words. Sounds amazing!
Sounds good... The major issue I know of is TSLs often drift bias, and start to sound off once this happens (think that's probably much of the dislike). Played for short periods the amps are fine, but they run pretty hot internally, so after playing for a bit (30 mins to 1hr), components get warmer causing their values to alter so the bias value is no longer correct (although once cooled they should return to near their original spec value). This can also cause power tubes to pull yet more current leading to the gradual damage to tubes and circuity, in particular red-plating too. Marshall did make a few reivisons of the amps though so might be solved if its a later model!
Straight from marshall the tsl 60 wasn’t effected by this issue like the 100w one was which is why i sought out the 60w version
JNC, you are the triplet king 👑 I’m paying you royalties whenever I use them
Some very solid tones here, I think the TSL's are better than their rep suggests. Most people's issues with them is less for what they are, and more because they aren't a 2203/2204. The diode clipping definitely gives them a particular sound that (for better or worse) seems to really suit pop punk. Thankfully you showed what else it’s capable of!
FWIW people get too hung up on the diodes - you don’t hear people complaining about Jubilee/JMP-1/JCM800 2205/2210/JCM900 MKIII as much.
It's a spring reverb, I have the 601 combo and the tsl100h they are brilliant amps , I love them, had a jmp1 rack before , the tsls were so much better sounding and easier to use, you get fabulous tones out it
As I recall it's mainly reliability why people don't like these but did like the DSL. Also some people swear the DSL sounds better but that could be copium as it should be the same circuit just with more knobs and another board. I always loved the rough quality to the distortion on these, more rude and aggressive than the smoother/ tighter JVM (which I adore). I wound up doing the JVM 205H thing and couldn't be happier, but the real DSL/ TSL (the reissue DSL isn't the same for some reason) had its own personality somehow separate from the 800 and Plexi.
I think it’s a great amp. You’re reviewing a lots of gear but to my knowledge you haven’t yet reviewed pickups. I’m not asking you to mess with your favorite strat but it would be really interesting to get to to know your opinion on for instance Monty’s Stratocaster pickups. I have an American strat but before ordering it would be interesting to know your opinion on those pups. I know it’s not related to this video but when time permits for you it would really interesting if you could make a shootout on some pickups. Cheers!
I much prefer the TSL to the DSL. Much rounder in the mids.
Even the TSL60?
It’s the 100W JCM 2000 TSLs and DSLs (not the current model DSL100) that have conductive board issues. If you buy one make sure the board is ISS 20.
And avoid the JTM60s - very flimsy construction and bad heat issues especially with the bridge burning the board.
The JCM2000 DSL and TSL 60s are fine - the sound is wholly subjective.
Oh, and some 100W TSLs have a buzz in the clean channel.
Pretty sure this is the same (or, at least, a very similar) amp that Colin Frangicetto of Circa Survive plays, so for me, this is THE Marshall sound. A quick search online tells me that the reason this amp is disliked is that it may have some diodes for distortion, which I guess means it's not "real" tube distortion. Not sure though.
I LOVE the shark 😆😆😆 Killer TONES and PLAYING as always 🤘
Great tones once again @johnnathancordy ! You could make a paper coffee cup attached to your guitar with a string sound good. 👏👍
And yes the tone here is amazing
I gigged a TSL 100 Head for quite a few years and it never let me down. I could never understand the hate, I must have been lucky and got a good one.
I bought one of the earlier ones(TSL 100) and gigged it non stop for 8 years. The PCBs would consistently fail. Some components were under valued and failed. I can honestly say it was a PITA. But boy did it sound the goods cranked!! Once they brought out the Revision 2 PCBs (They were thicker and could stand the heat and current) most of the issues were fixed. There were forums galore torching the TSL100 and 60 because of these failures. All in all it was ahead of its time. The Footswitch had Ch1 / Ch2 / Ch3 / FX Loop and Boost which was great, yep the Fx Loop in Parallel was a bad choice, but I managed along with the FX Loop boost switch which gave you an extra +6db or so. I always wished they made the 2nd channel the same as the 3rd which you could dial gain in or out. Every now and then I get the urge to buy a used TSL100......yep there's one now on FB Marketplace:).
These amps have an amazing clean channel provided the amp is Biased correctly, its has one of the best EL34 tube clean tones around!
what would you bias a tsl60 to?
@@Matte.u.k I believe I set my tubes at 40ma per tube, I used the Eurotube Bios probe to make the setting. Be sure to check with the tube manufacture to see what they recommend. The following is from Eurotube:
The ET “Pro One” Bias Probe will read out the plate current in the upper readout and the DC plate voltage in the lower readout. Unlike other probes the "Pro One" uses a direct plate current reading therefore subtracting the screen current is not necessary. The information below is applicable for push pull adjustable bias amps. All you have to do is make a simple calculation by dividing the dissipation of the tube in watts into the plate voltage and then multiply the result by .7 most amps will actually come out of crossover distortion at about 65% but on average sound best at 70% to 75%.
For example, if you were biasing a 25 watt tube and your DC plate voltage was 450VDC the calculation would look like this. 25 Watts divided by 450VDC = .0555 multiplied by .7 = .0388 and rounded off this would be .039 or 39 Milliamps. You can run the tube as high as 85% but you will wear them out quite a bit quicker. If you want to run them on the hot side we recommend not exceeding 80% but again, you will wear the tubes out about 20% faster. The calculation for 80% with a 25 watt tube at 450VDC would look like this. 25 Watts / 450VDC = .0555 X .8 = .0444 or 44mA.
Those things last forever. I have the TSL 100 from the 90's and still going stong!!! Killer amp!
Wow, really preferred the tone with the DGT
As someone whos not super into Marshall amps I thought this was actually pretty great, id definitely be happy if I had one of those. The clean tone is soooo good.
HAHAHA the emulated line out! Omg thats hilarious.
I have the TSL 100 and still gig with it. There are many different revisions of the mainboard because Marshall tried to fix numerous issues. Mine failed many times but it was cheaper to get it fixed than buy a new amp. To me the crunch channel is a bit fizzy and not as good as the dsl crunch at the time. The lead channel is too harsh in the treble but at least each channel has its own eq so that can be adjusted. Hitting the lead channel with a boost gives great sustain for rock. The loop is pants. With the fx dial on 10 it is in series but sufferes a loss in volume and tone compared to not using the loop. It means that it's not good to switch between using the loop and not using the loop. It does mean that I can crank the amp a little bit more to reach the sound level required. Lastly the foot switcher for this amp has 5 buttons so it's quite large and heavy but worst of all is that it has a long fixed midi cable soldered on to it rather than a socket to unplug the cable. Not the end of the world to fit a socket but not a fully thought through idea.
I haven't played one but if I remember correctly, this is the amp of choice for Jonsí of Sigur Rós, oddly enough.
The PRS part is absolutely insane Could you please tell me your signal path for the intro? are you going into the effects loop or doing it all in post?
That thumbnail really got me for some reason 😂
💚If its an “emulated line out”, with that XLR, why has mine always sounded like yours? (hissy scratchy). Isnt it meant to be so that I dont have to add my own impulse response? And if I do add an impulse response, am I now having 2 can impulses (emulated line plus IR)? Also, is that XLR impulse response, including the Post power amp tubes or is that just including the pre amp? Im wondering if it would be just the same, going out from the fx loop, as oppose to going out the xlr. Its odd because my xlr out on my egnater rebel 30, just does that job fine, without an additional IR added. But the egnater isnt as tight or punchy as the marshall, so I would prefer to figure out this xlr thing on the marshall, if you can help.
John which IR (specifically please) did you use?
Sounds great!
Not terribly Marshall related but… For the short period you used the DGT, were you coil splitting or full humbucking? Reason I ask is, seemed to have more high end going on than the k-line. (Both lovely sounds by the way!)
Cheers to ol’ blighty from the land of hillbillies.
I actually dig these amps but.. I get quite a few nowadays coming into the workshop melting their output tubes. This is due to some early models being made with low-quality PCB's, over time the PCB boards become conductive. I have to replace the entire main boards with new Marshall ones, quite the mish!
I don't know the exact year but I just love mine, I play everything on it...not the best reverb but is usable. GREAT clean tones in low or high volumes and the crunch channel is very good, with some time and patience, it can sound like a "bluesbreaker"...the lead channel imo can sound a little fuzzy/harshy for some people/types of music, but you can solve that with a TS or a EQ...I am running mine with 7080 celestions and I'm sure I would sound much more better with Creambacks or V30...it's a fantastic amp, probably I'll never sell it :D
TSL 60? im getting one today
what cab ir are u using in the intro demo? is it from a captor x? sounds liek its emulating 65w speakers
Oh the motherboards on the jcm2000 and the goofy grounding on the speaker jack😢😢😢
If the effects loop has done properly, when you turn the parallel effects loop mix to the 100%, it is serial loop.
(Yes, i know, on some Mesa amps it is not designed properly 😀)
not on the tsl60 unfortunately... do you know if he is using the effects loop here?
@@Matte.u.k Yes he is, When he was playing crunch/lead, he had some form of delay on the loop. Stomp propably.
@@aristocaster sounded great! I thought the fx loop sort of lowered the quality. Can i ask you What is the advantage of a serial loop?
@@Matte.u.k No advantage, it depends what you wanna do with it, parallel loop gives you more options, aka you can keep your amp tone without effects, and the chorus delay reverb are insert with the pure sound only as an effect, not containing the actual amp sound mixed in it.
I think the quality was inconsistent. I had a brand new one and I never got a tone I liked, I bought it watching a local hotshot player use one, like yourself he made theTSL60 sound great. I replaced it with a used Marshal rack system. The JMP-1 and EL-50/50 I haven't looked back. At about 16.04 you had a killer early 80's Judas Priest tone going on.
Tsl602 is all i need.
Its a very modern and slick tone no matter how you dial it, which isnt everyone’s thing. I think they have a bad reputation for the design flaws which cause bias to drift which might the transformer to breakdown faster too.
Dialed in a Banana again and made it sound like the Best Amp/Food ever!!!! My gigging friend, who passed away, used to have a jcm900, When he replaced it with a jcm800, it made a world of a difference. He Hated the 900, and I noticed the sound difference right away.
I though it was the JCM900 dirty channel... time flies 😅
I regularly played the 2x12 combo version of that exact amp (the TSL 602). It sounded great...when it worked. The reliability was horrible.
I've heard so much bulls#it about TSLs... And I dreamed about JVM, until I tried both...
I had two tsl601 combos.
I quite liked the first one, it the second one I had was awful - not idea why.
please be aware early versions of these have boards that over time conduct.. they will die and then its a whole new board.... 😫 If you're in the UK you cannot buy a replacement its UK service centre only.. be warned!!
Bought one from hot rox uk, think it was 130 quid fitted it myself and biased it , look up Tony Mackenzie for a great video on how to do it
Dont think so Jeff beck did use one for many many years but the 100 watt version the most hated Marshall must be JCM900
Ive had mine for about 15 years, its great, its loud, very versatile but.... the hum..... any other owners agree? Also feel like channel 1 is a bit under powered, but that said, itsa beast. 80 pounds...
with modern equipment... like load boxes and stuff (captor X and OX to name a couple) you will find that most of the so called shitty amps actually perform very well as you can push the power section... most negative reviews of these amps are because they tried to play them at very low volumes where they sound thin or brittle.
I thought it sounded great 😊 I know the jcm900 had a bad reputation because it was a type of solid state amp instead of valves. Maybe it was just a continuation of the hate towards them?
It does make second hand prices a bit cheaper so all good with carrying on hating! 😂
Just bought the combo version of this amp today for $150 Australian. I feel like I stole it.
The reason this amp has a bad reputation is because it always blew up tubes due to a design flaw with the PCB and design of the amp. Hot components was mounted to close to eachother and failed, causing the wrong voltage to go across the tubes and blowing them. Tony mckenzie has a vid of this where he buys a new PCB from marshall revision 22 or something where the issue is fixed. I had a TSL 122 and it was in and out of repair and my local repairguy did not know this so it just stacked up repaircost. Alot of amps are more reliable and sound more marshall thats why this one is unpopular.
The deal with TSLs and DSLs is..
Wait for it
They sound better at lower volumes😏 don't crank them. The DSL crunch channel is sublime btw. I know he's demoing a TSL.
i had one TSL 601 for two years. Well built quality, heavy as hell, clean sounds was fine, drive channels did not work for me.
taking a break from tonemaster pro content haha
Fender salesmen are working flat out aren't they. Every channel I watch is all over it.
I use five of the TSL line up. They are great amps with a true gain and distortion and thats why they work well in the studio. The runaway bias these amps suffer from is an easy 20 min fix by a good tech. Stay away from cheap JJ tubes and use good power tubes and these amps rock. If you use JJ junk tubes you will have one heck of a noise amp that sound fizzy. Mullards, Winged C or Svetlanna in the power section and your amp will rock. Granted this demo sucks ass.
The only people who dislike the JCM2000’s are the forum dwellers on The Gear Page who’ve never actually played one at volume. 😂
I have this head and it needs to be run at least halfway master volume to really get the real sound out of it. Maybe more like 60% it then comes alive. And the amp is loud !
It's hated because they all broke. From what I understand some of the later amps have a better board that can survive, but most of the earlier amps are dead. I really wanted the 2x12 version when they were out new.
I saw loads of bands of all varieties use these, on stages like at Download and you’d see them on tv.
I think JCM 900 was more hated
Geezus😮
I had the TSL122 from new for around 10 years. Clean tone and crunch tone was excellent. Lead tone too much for me. The speaker emulated output was fantastic for silent recording back then before we had IRs, OxBoxes, Captor Xs and the like. The effects loop was awful (and in part sent me on a years long search to find an amp with the ‘perfect loop’- I don’t actually bother nowadays!). The channel switching was also disappointing as it wasn’t instantaneous, but you could work around it with some forethought. It ran very, very hot but never caused me any reliability issues. A mixed bag. You can pick them up quite cheaply these days.
Mine KILLS!!!
Marshall heads are the very embodiment of every unreliable tube amp story you’ve ever heard
RIP my JCM900 DR 😢
I don’t know. Mine has been fine with zero issues for 11 years now. And I have a DSL… I’ve actually seen more unreliablity from Fenders. Supersonic series is known to have more than a few issues. Had a Laney in the 90s that just blew fuse, after fuse and never could stay working for more than an hour.
I thought they sounded good back in the day, and still think they sound good now. Are they actually hated or am I missing something?
14:40 Sounding a bit Eric Johnson(ish)
I don’t understand the hate for a lot of gear. It’s like a rumor about someone at school. No one finds out if it’s true, but everyone believes it and continues spreading it.
Had a tsl100, unreal amp until a friend dropped it....
Tappy (boi) Super Lead
People often times parrot opinions without doing any research.
What i really didn't like about this amp was almost (don't throw the tomatoes and eggs, i sad ALMOST) no difference what guitar to plug in. You can hear the MARSHALL as (seems like) it has to be, but you can't hear the guitar - amps takes the signal of the guitar and makes it sound like "he thinks it should be because he's more important". I'm talking about 601 combo, don't know how it was with the 100th, life has never crossed our ways.
Any bad reviews of tsl 602 would be using bad guitars. GLP or Fstrat no problem
I’ve got the 100 TSL and it’s killer.
I think the brochure says clean equivalent to JTM, crunch =JMP and lead is JCM 900?
3 amps in one 😊
Something like that!
I had one. Sold it,and bought an Boss Katana Mk2 100w
As far as I know, they broke a lot. Cheap production choices
I hated this amp immediately upon seeing it. I just don't like amps that try to do everything.