In the video I called this a TSL 100 but it's the almost exactly the same TSL 122. Here's the video on the issues with Marshall's replacement boards: • Marshall DSL100 Part 1...
Thanks, Lyle. I actually feel shame / guilt for putting you through any frustration working on my stuff. That you were finding ways to save me a few sheckles (lots of them actually) speaks to your character. I really cannot thank you enough for being so thoughtful. - Chris
I assume you are the owner of the amplifier in the video? FWIW, I have repaired a huge amount of these JCM2000s both the TSL and DSLs. I currently have four TSL100s in my house that I bought dead and repaired. Honestly, the TSL100 is still my favourite sounding Marshall ever made and I own more than a few Marshalls. I actually even prefer it to the JVM410H. While I no longer gig my TSL100s (currently gig an Engl Powerball II), it's still my go-to amplifier for tracking rhythms on recordings. It just does some really magic things in front of an SM57. Honestly, you made the right call getting your TSL100 repaired. I know new and fancy is all great, but it's a great amplifier.
@@jonsick445 I am the owner of the JCM2000 (DSL) he is working on for me. He mentions it in this video. He is also working on a cool old solid state Lead 100. Looking forward to playing through them after Lyle's work and improvements are complete. I am in no rush though. It will be done when he says it is done. I'm thankful.
I’m so glad for our consumer protections here in Australia. Marshall footed the bill for these boards up until a few years ago because there was a big hubbub about it. Unfortunately not everyone had it done so there are still 25 year old amps around that need the job done and we can’t get the boards for no cost anymore.
The moral of the story: If a high-powered tube guitar amplifier is built to typical consumer-grade electronics standards, don’t expect it to provide excellent reliability and consistent performance over the long haul. At least with a mass-produced hi-if audio product, it sits on a shelf for years, and rarely experiences other components being plugged in or out. It’s a completely different world lugging a guitar amp to gigs, throwing it onto stages, and then back into the trunk of your car, then back into basement, and… etc. etc.
I had a nightmare with a Blackstar HT40 due to that exact situation. Great sounding circuit and cabinet that I loved but the construction was a problem. Had to send it for warranty repair three times until I just returned it. It would start making crackling noises and lose a lot of power after one set.
I have an Orange Valve Tester. I know I know, its not as exact as a real tube tester BUT , it has identified bad and good tubes for me, for years and helped me verify and match tubes and test 12AX7 tubes as well.
I had a JCM2000 DSL50 back around when they were released. It had this exact same bias drift issue. But people did not know about this, it was not spoken about on forums until many years later. Most knew only the DSL401 combo (not to be mistaken for the more modern DLS40C/CR) as a hotbox that develops cold solder joints. Marshall seriously should have fixed them on their dime. It's absurd that even now you have to pay several hundred for the board to fix a problem that was made by the company.
I bought a TSL122 in the late 90s. It was my first ever major amp purchase at $1500. Just past the warranty period I started noticing the sound deteriorating after it warmed up. I tried two different techs and neither one could fix it. I ended up selling it to the second tech for $100. It seems like a class action suit should have been the solution. Oh well that was a long time ago.
I bought mine brand new in 98 for about 1500€....single guy, with a job, parents house... I went all in the JCM bandwagon. Played it for some years with friends (no gigs...completely untalented up to today) and found myself getting at the Marshall importer spending 100€ for every year after those initial happy years! Kept humming after some months after coming from the importer and being reliefed from 100€. Got married, stored it and when I started playing again that hum was horrible after a few minutes. Went to google and forums were plaged with complaints about Marshall and those boards! Contacted Marshall and they'd gently charge me 200€ plus labour for replacing the board and if the tubes needed replaced they'd be charged too. I had steel kept the receipts for the 4 'repairs' done to the amp but they didn't gave a rats @ss...got rid of it at a pawn store but I explaned that it had a problem. I got 350€ in 2012 and I guess it was a good deal...bye Marshall!
I've got the TSL100 and even with the Rev20 board it was trying. Most of the frustration was of my making, but I can't explain how happy I am with it. I lucked into trading work with a tech friend that took care of some of those goofy things like the speaker jack ground and a few values, the ducking problem when switching. Then he helped with a ton of the mods I wanted. I feel it is the BEST clean sound Marshall ever made. MANY clean sounds and I don't think the JVM matches it. The Crunch and Lead are super deluxe too, but need some shaping. Utility wise it's my go to still.
I have, not one, but two of these combo amps. Tsl 122 and the 602. I’ve also spent lots of money in repairs, through multiple techs. Each tech badmouthed the former for poor workmanship or knowledge, as it turns out Marshall created a monster. I’ve not heard of the head version having these issues, as the tubes are on top of the pcb. I still gig with the 602 regularly. Can’t bring myself to part with it. Very informative video, thanks!
Always love your videos, Lyle. I've had my (newer version) DSL100H for almost ten years (2013, 2014, I can't remember)... I retubed and re-biased it myself (pretty proud that I did that, too) when the stock tubes gave up the ghost after heavy use those first few years and it's been damn near bulletproof ever since with the JJ's. Thank goodness I didn't get the TSL I wanted as a teenager but my dumbass bought a Mesa TriAxis and power amp instead....WHEW what a tech bill nightmare. I still have flashbacks to that POS
TSL100 was the first Marshall I ever played and remember it sounding so massive. With all of those issues I am glad I never picked one up and happily a Friedman player currently. I enjoyed the current DSL40CR and agree it was a great amp at the price point as well Lyle. I just wish that version was shared to the higher and lower wattage versions in the new DSL series, the others seem to have issues as well or strangely lack the same features. All the best on the work there Lyle, thanks for sharing!
Craplifier! Glad I got rid of mine. Now I'm playing two Selmer T&B MKll 50w heads from '66, with two 4x12 cabs, a Binson echorec, and a '68 strat. Never been happier!
I have to thank you for your DSL100H video where you mentioned it was a nicely designed amp. I pulled the trigger and I am happy I did. Glad I never bought a JCM2000.
hi lyle. you should totally get a used orange vt 1000 tube tester (300$) ive been using one for the last ten years with no issues. not ideal for matching power tubes but great for showing the gain ratings of most power and preamp tubes. enjoy!
I greatly enjoy your videos. The worst gear choice I've ever made since I started playing guitar 55 years ago was purchasing a new TSL122 back around 2005. Paid over 2 grand for it and finally sold it for $500 just to get rid of it and the ongoing costs of repairs and tubes. Now I play through a couple of amps from Steve Carr and couldn't be happier with them. Night and day difference in build quality and sound. Thanks again.
Lyle, very informative vid, you've covered most of the issues -> A few other TSL / DSL issues worth looking out for that may not be immediately apparent : a/ Low to mid level hum originating from rear jack PCB. Check caps C16, C18 for drift in value. If they differ in value significantly, will cause a current return spike through gnd wire at con2 b/ Footswitch connector DIN1 can be prone to cracking solder joints / pcb tracks in amps that cop really heavy (road / stage) use. Beefing up pcb connections will definitely help. Securing DIN socket to amp chassis with brkt also works but it's a PITA job that most will avoid unless absolutely necessary. c/ Power transformers were prone to mechanical and electrical noise. An insidious 100 / 120 Hz HF spike (not hum) can be result of mtg bolts shorting on chassis & can causing a semi shorted turn, I've had this in on one TSL. Mechanical hum is usually due to poor laminating / varnishing and almost impossible to get rid of... try tightening the mtg bolts. They cheaped out on the traffos.
That''s why you always see two double stack Marshals at concerts, in case one shits itself! One of 3 great myths of modern music, Marshal amps, Gibson Les Paul s and no one can play like Hendix!
I have a hard time understanding why any amp builder would use quick connects for grounds. Its like they are saying "we know this design choice is going to cause issues eventually and is certainly less ideal than the normal way of doing things but we dont really care." With that said Hughes and Kettner were very helpful when i reached out to them about an amp before i got my Marshall. They were polite and very willing to help and talk with me. That has not been my experience with Marshall USA lol. I have a DSL100HR that i got at launch and i couldnt be happier with it really. Since i bought it ive started building my own amps but i still love to play the DSL and am still very happy with the tone and versatility it offers. I did make a couple circuit modifications to the Ultra gain channel and i added an optional Choke/Resistor switch. It didnt NEED the choke but they are so cheap and easy to add so i figured why not? I did have the glue that holds in the filter caps become conductive and it caused an arc at start up (in between a filter cap and a resistor next to it that was linked by the glue touching the leads of both coponents) but i was already half expecting it to become conductive after seeing the glue darkening a few month before when i was in the amp. Because Id noticed that early i was able to turn off the amp clean off all the glue, test the effected components and start it back up with no lasting damage to any components or the board. I was even able to restore the pcb with some micro mesh in the area that the arc occured ( luckily no traces were damaged irrepairably, just a very small black chared spot on the eyelet of the resistor that the micro mesh took care of). Other than that glue issue its been a really solid amp. Im already making this too long but i also wanted to say im glad you are fixing this TSL. It might not make sense financially but its always good to have as many of these amps in working condition as possible to preserve that part of gear history lol. And id be willing to bet theres some diehard JCM2000 TSL fans out there dispite the issues with the boards etc.
Well, this video makes it easier for me to part with my newly acquired TSL-100 before I start putting $ into it. I have a ‘21 JVM410H and a newer DSL40 as well, should have stopped there but wanted to hear the difference in person.
I seem to remember hearing about some Marshal DSL and TSL series of amps with PCBs that become conductive which then causes the power tubes to go into Red-Plating.
Im learning alot from you Lyle your approach is diffeent from other amp techs I have watched ,I just got a Valvestate VS100 from a guy For work I did on his guitar(hes a old friend only reason) surprisngly its not that bad of a amp ,have to clean the pots and put new peramp tube in and probably give it to my son who plays alot of metal ,for a 30 year old amp its alot better sounding than the MG style amps I have heard and probably will spend $40 couldnt say no
Ok ... let me point one thing out! This is the most satisfying voice i had ever heard from any techs out there. Came here by accident, stood till the end and left a subscription... Plus the fact that i am "liker" 666 ! If thats not a sign.. then what?
The JCM 2000 was a killer sounding amp, I still like the sound, but never owned one, but everyone I played always ran super hot, (heat) Also reminds me of right after that Marshall put out the Mode Four amp. Didn’t last very long
Definitely stuff I wish I knew when I bought mine used years and years ago. It was fine for years but suddenly, loud hum and red plating. It's the combo, so I'm still deciding if I'm a fan of the sound enough to get the mainboard replaced, which would still be cheaper than having to get a new amp. Honestly wish I had gotten a JCM 800 Combo instead.
I was thinking of stocking up on a few of those boards should I come across a TSL122 for a good price. I just finished repairing my Carvin Belair 50 and I installed flashback diodes across the plates like you recommended! Funny thing is there was a trace already available and labeled but Carvin never actually installed the diodes in production. I also replaced a couple of cracked 220k plate resistors, a microphonic coupling capacitor with an orange drop, another cracked 100 ohm resistor in the dc filaments circuit for v1, v2. Also chased down a parasitic oscillation squealing in the clean channel and ended dropping in a 10k grid stopper on the grid of the 2nd stage just after the tonestack. I feel like the oscillation may have crossed back over to the dirty channel now, or maybe I can hear it more cleanly because the amplifier has quieted down a lot with all the repairs. I heard it squeal a little but it manifests more often as a hum. But it’s all bolted back together and working well. I am being nit picky, I am sure most Belair amplifiers are a lot noisier and people accept it. There’s a bus that brings power over the power section board that might be causing it due to proximity, so I might wrap it with a shield. Or the 2nd stage looks ripe for a grid stopper, Will have to chase with a scope when I get the gumption. Otherwise she clicks in at 41 watts clean!!! 402 volts on the plates, biased it so the class A operation at least operates within its heat dissipation curve - although class B part violates it quite a bit. Hopefully since class B is roughly 50% duty cycle - it can afford to cross that curve. But it has the Russian 6p14p tubes with the higher 14 watts plate dissipation to help out. She sounds awesome though so far. Thanks for the advice. I didn’t up the value of the screen resistors though, snd I think the red plating was due to one bad tube - as that was the the tube whose glass envelope broke as I was handling it - so it had to have issues brewing in it.
Around 2003 I was looking to “retire” my JCM900 (use in studio only). I found a JCM2000 DSL at a very reasonable $300 (Canadian). Needless to say, I’m STILL using my ‘80’s JCM900. :/ ❤ from way the hell up North eh! :)
I have a TSL122 that I got in 2001. It's been a doorstop for nearly 20 years now. When it worked (which was rare) it sounded great. I also had several techs "fix" it but by the time one finally told me about the board problem, I'd put so much money into it I never got it fixed. It's still in my music room and gets used for photos and decoration,. There are some great sounding Marshalls out there, but I've never bought another one after getting burned like that.
I've seen on JVM that the G1 of EL34 gets conductive, and to fix it you need to drill out that pin from the board and solder the gridstopper directly to that pin to stable the bias. Same problem here?
Techs try that on these boards but that’s not the only place where conductive paths form in the bad material. So that’s a bandaid that ultimately fails. Sadly. I tried it myself on my first one. The only true solution is a later board, complete replacement.
Have you ever tried the 'repair' kits that are available for the conductive boards? I've installed one and it worked well. Might be a cheaper fix for your customer. Great content btw 👍
Those don’t address all the areas of the board that become conductive. Some techs have been lucky with them but I know many have not. It’s well-intentioned but not a solution I could trust for my clients.
that's great having access to such a good matching tester for tubes. I just finished repairs on my dsl100 I got it as a chassis with no tubes 150$.....anybody have a marshall head box? enclosure.?that will fit?
TSL 122 combo was my first tube amp. Didn't have this issue, but the foot switch would randomly change channels due to cracked solder joints on the jack. Worth touching up while you're in there. For the conductive board, i always wondered if it's possible to disconnect the bad traces with a dremel, and reconnect them with wires on top of the board. The first one would take a while to figure out, but once you have it down i bet it'd be cheaper / faster than buying and installing a new board.
I cringe every time I see a tech who thinks they've fixed their conductive PCB. They will ALWAYS fail again, maybe not now, and maybe in a different manner, but they WILL. Those "fix" board add-ons are just another vulture company making money from the customer for another non-fix.
Those PWBs look like FR-4. I have never heard of PCB substrates becoming conductive. Can you tell me how these boards are becoming conductive and how much so. Are these PWBs made in China perhaps?
I was sweating looking through the comments in regards to the TSL 60. It's my only good amp, had it for years after picking it up for $200 from a pawn shop. Survived playing all through my 20s, hoped it wasn't cursed.
Maaf bhs indonesia punyak saya itu itu lampu yg samping kanan yg EL34 yg paling jau dari travo daya kok keluar merah maron yaa mohon bantuannya para suhu terus ad capasitor 22j kebakar itu ap ngaruh ke lampu yg di pegang tadi yg paling deket am lampu pin anoda pin 2 dan pin 3 ad jemperan capasitor 22j kebakar ap klu di biarkan akan ngaruh ke musik
I had one of these. Bias drift. Just like this one. I found a replacement board for $120 from a company in the UK. My amp tech replaced it and resolved all the issues with the new board, but the new board sounded like poop compared to the old one so I sold it. This is why I stopped buying Marshall’s and will never own another one. I still have my old 1973 super bass, but I’ll never buy another new one. Thanks Marshall.
Lucky for me I don't see too many of these amps. With a bad board and sketchy EL34s they're almost valueless and more than one person has told me "Just put it back together and I'm going to dump it." A new board plus install and a quad of power tubes is nearly all the value that's in em. Good work steering people away from this turd hurricane.
Just WOW. The quick disconnects the little white ones are rated at like 30 volts 60 at best if those are the ones I have seen. Hope no High voltage goes thru them . To take 20 versions to a board to fix the problem is not what I would call professional after 3 you need a new PCB designer and project lead and maybe a new supplier. As well I will not IMHO that statement just facts in that case.
Uggh... That jack panel board... Board mounted jacks... with PLASTIC threads. Possibly held to the back panel via plastic nuts on the plastic threads. Wouldn't it be better to have discrete metal Switchcraft jacks with detachable leads with modular connectors or spade lugs on the board where they need to connect?
I have only used these amps since they came out ,, my combo just failed from 2001 ,, the tone of these amps loud with effects is incredible , worth every penny to fix ,,and super loud ,, mullard tubes with tung-sol 12ax7 my amp after repair that with a strat ua-cam.com/video/IZf916KFOyY/v-deo.htmlsi=sMHbhYqpYT0UkIS0 the hotter marshals get the better they sound ,,, hard for a tech to understand why people fix stuff .. but that Marshall I love it .. I bought the new DSL made in vietnam and sent it back sounded like a solid state amp ,no soul, ,, nothing like my made in England , so so much louder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Korg did not do any good for both Vox and Marshall. Just like the Harmen group profited at the expense of JBL reputation. It's a sad state we find ourselves in, especially for those of us who can remember what things were like when a reputation for quality and reliable performance was a great value. In watching your channel I have been glad I no longer do what you do. Thank you for your dedication.
I have one in pieces i'll never fix it and i'll certainly never buy another Marshall product again. Many years ago i contacted marshall and they stated there never was a problem with conductive boards what bastards!
I am sorry. But why is EVERYTHING thats been built/so called designed in the last 10 years or so, CRAP with so many (Some times terminal/uneconomic) problems! Just cheap components/bad design?. I was always on the understanding as times went by we learnt, and things improved. I have my old 1976 Music man 2x10 65 and can honestly say apart from a fairly regular service and new tubes (Tubes: my decision, the old ones were fine apparently) I've NEVER had a problem with the old girl and she works and sounds fine! (To these old ears!) Sorry, most of these "newer"(Circus board) amps are basically destined for the landfill from day one! (and keeping Young Lyle busy)! Sorry,Old gits rant over! x
Those amps are abominations if you're a tech guy. Really bad boards and tons of jumper cables. Most of those cables have different ID# at each end. I was at a music store about 5 years ago and they had a stack of 7 of these waiting for somebody willing to repair them.
I'm in the same boat... my '98 JCM DSL 100 shit the bed well over a decade ago. I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere, so shipping this thing out would be a major pain, never mind shucking out over $200 for a Revision 20 board and a few hundred more to have it repaired. And even then there's no guarantee something else won't fail on it after I've gone to all that expense. The struggle is real...
Bought the TSL 100 new and to this day I will not by a Marshall. I'd love one of there new 20 watt vintage amps but it won't happen. What a crap company
Your commentary is bizarre and cannot be accurate. I have owned a TSL 100 for 25 years and I have so many friends with TSL's and DSL's. I've practiced with a 2000 series dsl for a few years and I've never heard of any of this nir had friends complain. Yes there are issues with the jacks being mounted to the pcb's that should be reflowed and the TSL's can smoke a resistor if your foot switch acts up and is left unrepaired. I believe you should put in fresh tubes every year or 2 for best tone and Amp health no matter what the existing tubes test like and I totally believe people playing old crap tubes has a lot to do with these problems. Other than that, I've never had an issue with my amp and have played every Rock club in my city many west coast theaters and 2 max security prisons thrown in for fun. Great sounding reliable amplifiers!
Thanks, Lyle. I actually feel shame / guilt for putting you through any frustration working on my stuff. That you were finding ways to save me a few sheckles (lots of them actually) speaks to your character. I really cannot thank you enough for being so thoughtful. - Chris
I assume you are the owner of the amplifier in the video? FWIW, I have repaired a huge amount of these JCM2000s both the TSL and DSLs. I currently have four TSL100s in my house that I bought dead and repaired. Honestly, the TSL100 is still my favourite sounding Marshall ever made and I own more than a few Marshalls. I actually even prefer it to the JVM410H. While I no longer gig my TSL100s (currently gig an Engl Powerball II), it's still my go-to amplifier for tracking rhythms on recordings. It just does some really magic things in front of an SM57. Honestly, you made the right call getting your TSL100 repaired. I know new and fancy is all great, but it's a great amplifier.
@@jonsick445 The only one that I've heard that I think might sound better is the original Jubilee model.
@@jonsick445 I am the owner of the JCM2000 (DSL) he is working on for me. He mentions it in this video. He is also working on a cool old solid state Lead 100. Looking forward to playing through them after Lyle's work and improvements are complete. I am in no rush though. It will be done when he says it is done. I'm thankful.
Now I have become JCM 2000, destroyer of valves
As a person who has had many surgeries, I always get the best surgeon for the procedure. This customer learned his lesson.
I’m so glad for our consumer protections here in Australia. Marshall footed the bill for these boards up until a few years ago because there was a big hubbub about it. Unfortunately not everyone had it done so there are still 25 year old amps around that need the job done and we can’t get the boards for no cost anymore.
Marshall did send me a new board free, when mine burned up in 2015. I have three Marshall’s but the TSL’s crunch tone is just great.
The moral of the story: If a high-powered tube guitar amplifier is built to typical consumer-grade electronics standards, don’t expect it to provide excellent reliability and consistent performance over the long haul. At least with a mass-produced hi-if audio product, it sits on a shelf for years, and rarely experiences other components being plugged in or out. It’s a completely different world lugging a guitar amp to gigs, throwing it onto stages, and then back into the trunk of your car, then back into basement, and… etc. etc.
I had a nightmare with a Blackstar HT40 due to that exact situation. Great sounding circuit and cabinet that I loved but the construction was a problem. Had to send it for warranty repair three times until I just returned it. It would start making crackling noises and lose a lot of power after one set.
I have an Orange Valve Tester. I know I know, its not as exact as a real tube tester BUT , it has identified bad and good tubes for me, for years and helped me verify and match tubes and test 12AX7 tubes as well.
I had a JCM2000 DSL50 back around when they were released. It had this exact same bias drift issue. But people did not know about this, it was not spoken about on forums until many years later. Most knew only the DSL401 combo (not to be mistaken for the more modern DLS40C/CR) as a hotbox that develops cold solder joints.
Marshall seriously should have fixed them on their dime. It's absurd that even now you have to pay several hundred for the board to fix a problem that was made by the company.
I bought a TSL122 in the late 90s. It was my first ever major amp purchase at $1500. Just past the warranty period I started noticing the sound deteriorating after it warmed up. I tried two different techs and neither one could fix it. I ended up selling it to the second tech for $100. It seems like a class action suit should have been the solution. Oh well that was a long time ago.
I bought mine brand new in 98 for about 1500€....single guy, with a job, parents house... I went all in the JCM bandwagon. Played it for some years with friends (no gigs...completely untalented up to today) and found myself getting at the Marshall importer spending 100€ for every year after those initial happy years! Kept humming after some months after coming from the importer and being reliefed from 100€. Got married, stored it and when I started playing again that hum was horrible after a few minutes. Went to google and forums were plaged with complaints about Marshall and those boards! Contacted Marshall and they'd gently charge me 200€ plus labour for replacing the board and if the tubes needed replaced they'd be charged too. I had steel kept the receipts for the 4 'repairs' done to the amp but they didn't gave a rats @ss...got rid of it at a pawn store but I explaned that it had a problem. I got 350€ in 2012 and I guess it was a good deal...bye Marshall!
I've got the TSL100 and even with the Rev20 board it was trying. Most of the frustration was of my making, but I can't explain how happy I am with it. I lucked into trading work with a tech friend that took care of some of those goofy things like the speaker jack ground and a few values, the ducking problem when switching. Then he helped with a ton of the mods I wanted. I feel it is the BEST clean sound Marshall ever made. MANY clean sounds and I don't think the JVM matches it. The Crunch and Lead are super deluxe too, but need some shaping. Utility wise it's my go to still.
I have, not one, but two of these combo amps. Tsl 122 and the 602. I’ve also spent lots of money in repairs, through multiple techs. Each tech badmouthed the former for poor workmanship or knowledge, as it turns out Marshall created a monster. I’ve not heard of the head version having these issues, as the tubes are on top of the pcb. I still gig with the 602 regularly. Can’t bring myself to part with it. Very informative video, thanks!
I have (sitting on a shelf, cuz I can’t throw crap out) a JCM2000 DSL head, and it has the same problem. :/
Always love your videos, Lyle. I've had my (newer version) DSL100H for almost ten years (2013, 2014, I can't remember)... I retubed and re-biased it myself (pretty proud that I did that, too) when the stock tubes gave up the ghost after heavy use those first few years and it's been damn near bulletproof ever since with the JJ's.
Thank goodness I didn't get the TSL I wanted as a teenager but my dumbass bought a Mesa TriAxis and power amp instead....WHEW what a tech bill nightmare. I still have flashbacks to that POS
TSL100 was the first Marshall I ever played and remember it sounding so massive. With all of those issues I am glad I never picked one up and happily a Friedman player currently. I enjoyed the current DSL40CR and agree it was a great amp at the price point as well Lyle. I just wish that version was shared to the higher and lower wattage versions in the new DSL series, the others seem to have issues as well or strangely lack the same features. All the best on the work there Lyle, thanks for sharing!
Craplifier! Glad I got rid of mine. Now I'm playing two Selmer T&B MKll 50w heads from '66, with two 4x12 cabs, a Binson echorec, and a '68 strat. Never been happier!
I have to thank you for your DSL100H video where you mentioned it was a nicely designed amp. I pulled the trigger and I am happy I did. Glad I never bought a JCM2000.
hi lyle. you should totally get a used orange vt 1000 tube tester (300$) ive been using one for the last ten years with no issues. not ideal for matching power tubes but great for showing the gain ratings of most power and preamp tubes. enjoy!
I greatly enjoy your videos. The worst gear choice I've ever made since I started playing guitar 55 years ago was purchasing a new TSL122 back around 2005. Paid over 2 grand for it and finally sold it for $500 just to get rid of it and the ongoing costs of repairs and tubes. Now I play through a couple of amps from Steve Carr and couldn't be happier with them. Night and day difference in build quality and sound. Thanks again.
The more of these videos I watch, the more I like my Boss Katana.
HAHA
@@PerfectCircle91 🤡👻
Wouldn't have guessed those look like that inside. Good shit as always, sir.
Lyle, very informative vid, you've covered most of the issues -> A few other TSL / DSL issues worth looking out for that may not be immediately apparent :
a/ Low to mid level hum originating from rear jack PCB. Check caps C16, C18 for drift in value. If they differ in value significantly, will cause a current return spike through gnd wire at con2
b/ Footswitch connector DIN1 can be prone to cracking solder joints / pcb tracks in amps that cop really heavy (road / stage) use. Beefing up pcb connections will definitely help. Securing DIN socket to amp chassis with brkt also works but it's a PITA job that most will avoid unless absolutely necessary.
c/ Power transformers were prone to mechanical and electrical noise. An insidious 100 / 120 Hz HF spike (not hum) can be result of mtg bolts shorting on chassis & can causing a semi shorted turn, I've had this in on one TSL. Mechanical hum is usually due to poor laminating / varnishing and almost impossible to get rid of... try tightening the mtg bolts. They cheaped out on the traffos.
That''s why you always see two double stack Marshals at concerts, in case one shits itself! One of 3 great myths of modern music, Marshal amps, Gibson Les Paul s and no one can play like Hendix!
I have a hard time understanding why any amp builder would use quick connects for grounds. Its like they are saying "we know this design choice is going to cause issues eventually and is certainly less ideal than the normal way of doing things but we dont really care." With that said Hughes and Kettner were very helpful when i reached out to them about an amp before i got my Marshall. They were polite and very willing to help and talk with me. That has not been my experience with Marshall USA lol. I have a DSL100HR that i got at launch and i couldnt be happier with it really. Since i bought it ive started building my own amps but i still love to play the DSL and am still very happy with the tone and versatility it offers. I did make a couple circuit modifications to the Ultra gain channel and i added an optional Choke/Resistor switch. It didnt NEED the choke but they are so cheap and easy to add so i figured why not? I did have the glue that holds in the filter caps become conductive and it caused an arc at start up (in between a filter cap and a resistor next to it that was linked by the glue touching the leads of both coponents) but i was already half expecting it to become conductive after seeing the glue darkening a few month before when i was in the amp. Because Id noticed that early i was able to turn off the amp clean off all the glue, test the effected components and start it back up with no lasting damage to any components or the board. I was even able to restore the pcb with some micro mesh in the area that the arc occured ( luckily no traces were damaged irrepairably, just a very small black chared spot on the eyelet of the resistor that the micro mesh took care of). Other than that glue issue its been a really solid amp. Im already making this too long but i also wanted to say im glad you are fixing this TSL. It might not make sense financially but its always good to have as many of these amps in working condition as possible to preserve that part of gear history lol. And id be willing to bet theres some diehard JCM2000 TSL fans out there dispite the issues with the boards etc.
Really really helpful video - thanks ❤
Well, this video makes it easier for me to part with my newly acquired TSL-100 before I start putting $ into it. I have a ‘21 JVM410H and a newer DSL40 as well, should have stopped there but wanted to hear the difference in person.
Good morning Sir. He called the correct person.
I needed this video like 5 year ago 😅
I seem to remember hearing about some Marshal DSL and TSL series of amps with PCBs that become conductive which then causes the power tubes to go into Red-Plating.
Im learning alot from you Lyle your approach is diffeent from other amp techs I have watched ,I just got a Valvestate VS100 from a guy For work I did on his guitar(hes a old friend only reason) surprisngly its not that bad of a amp ,have to clean the pots and put new peramp tube in and probably give it to my son who plays alot of metal ,for a 30 year old amp its alot better sounding than the MG style amps I have heard and probably will spend $40 couldnt say no
Thank god they do sound decent once all the issues are solved! And one less amp to the landfill, and thats a good thing!
Ok ... let me point one thing out! This is the most satisfying voice i had ever heard from any techs out there. Came here by accident, stood till the end and left a subscription... Plus the fact that i am "liker" 666 ! If thats not a sign.. then what?
The JCM 2000 was a killer sounding amp, I still like the sound, but never owned one, but everyone I played always ran super hot, (heat)
Also reminds me of right after that Marshall put out the Mode Four amp. Didn’t last very long
Definitely stuff I wish I knew when I bought mine used years and years ago. It was fine for years but suddenly, loud hum and red plating. It's the combo, so I'm still deciding if I'm a fan of the sound enough to get the mainboard replaced, which would still be cheaper than having to get a new amp. Honestly wish I had gotten a JCM 800 Combo instead.
I was thinking of stocking up on a few of those boards should I come across a TSL122 for a good price. I just finished repairing my Carvin Belair 50 and I installed flashback diodes across the plates like you recommended! Funny thing is there was a trace already available and labeled but Carvin never actually installed the diodes in production. I also replaced a couple of cracked 220k plate resistors, a microphonic coupling capacitor with an orange drop, another cracked 100 ohm resistor in the dc filaments circuit for v1, v2. Also chased down a parasitic oscillation squealing in the clean channel and ended dropping in a 10k grid stopper on the grid of the 2nd stage just after the tonestack. I feel like the oscillation may have crossed back over to the dirty channel now, or maybe I can hear it more cleanly because the amplifier has quieted down a lot with all the repairs. I heard it squeal a little but it manifests more often as a hum. But it’s all bolted back together and working well. I am being nit picky, I am sure most Belair amplifiers are a lot noisier and people accept it. There’s a bus that brings power over the power section board that might be causing it due to proximity, so I might wrap it with a shield. Or the 2nd stage looks ripe for a grid stopper, Will have to chase with a scope when I get the gumption. Otherwise she clicks in at 41 watts clean!!! 402 volts on the plates, biased it so the class A operation at least operates within its heat dissipation curve - although class B part violates it quite a bit. Hopefully since class B is roughly 50% duty cycle - it can afford to cross that curve. But it has the Russian 6p14p tubes with the higher 14 watts plate dissipation to help out. She sounds awesome though so far. Thanks for the advice. I didn’t up the value of the screen resistors though, snd I think the red plating was due to one bad tube - as that was the the tube whose glass envelope broke as I was handling it - so it had to have issues brewing in it.
Around 2003 I was looking to “retire” my JCM900 (use in studio only). I found a JCM2000 DSL at a very reasonable $300 (Canadian). Needless to say, I’m STILL using my ‘80’s JCM900. :/
❤ from way the hell up North eh! :)
I have a TSL122 that I got in 2001. It's been a doorstop for nearly 20 years now. When it worked (which was rare) it sounded great. I also had several techs "fix" it but by the time one finally told me about the board problem, I'd put so much money into it I never got it fixed. It's still in my music room and gets used for photos and decoration,. There are some great sounding Marshalls out there, but I've never bought another one after getting burned like that.
Lyle love your videos and attention to detail! I am trying to find a good 2 conductor shielded cable for use in my vintage amps. Any recommendations?
the nicest looking Marshall style amps i’ve seen lately are the Rockitt Retro ones, do you have any experience with them?
Great video. I have a JCM2000 DSL50 and I love the sound. The board on mine says ISS678910. Should I replace it?
Hi Lyle. Is there a replacement circuit board available for the DSL 50 from the same era?
you mentioned the newer ones are ok. is that the non jcm 2000 ones you mentioned? or are the later jcm2000 ones ok?
I've seen on JVM that the G1 of EL34 gets conductive, and to fix it you need to drill out that pin from the board and solder the gridstopper directly to that pin to stable the bias. Same problem here?
Techs try that on these boards but that’s not the only place where conductive paths form in the bad material. So that’s a bandaid that ultimately fails. Sadly. I tried it myself on my first one.
The only true solution is a later board, complete replacement.
Why do they solder tubes to the PCB?
Have you ever tried the 'repair' kits that are available for the conductive boards? I've installed one and it worked well. Might be a cheaper fix for your customer. Great content btw 👍
Those don’t address all the areas of the board that become conductive. Some techs have been lucky with them but I know many have not.
It’s well-intentioned but not a solution I could trust for my clients.
Who makes them?
@@swaffy101Dr Tube stable bias kit.
that's great having access to such a good matching tester for tubes. I just finished repairs on my dsl100 I got it as a chassis with no tubes 150$.....anybody have a marshall head box? enclosure.?that will fit?
Another reason why I bought a Laney.
Lost in space ♥️
TSL 122 combo was my first tube amp. Didn't have this issue, but the foot switch would randomly change channels due to cracked solder joints on the jack. Worth touching up while you're in there.
For the conductive board, i always wondered if it's possible to disconnect the bad traces with a dremel, and reconnect them with wires on top of the board. The first one would take a while to figure out, but once you have it down i bet it'd be cheaper / faster than buying and installing a new board.
It’s not the traces. It’s the board.
I had my eye on that same amp years ago. Times were tough back then and now im glad i couldn't afford it. What a crap show for those who bought them
Criminal is putting it mildly, shessshhhhh!
I cringe every time I see a tech who thinks they've fixed their conductive PCB. They will ALWAYS fail again, maybe not now, and maybe in a different manner, but they WILL. Those "fix" board add-ons are just another vulture company making money from the customer for another non-fix.
Those PWBs look like FR-4. I have never heard of PCB substrates becoming conductive. Can you tell me how these boards are becoming conductive and how much so. Are these PWBs made in China perhaps?
I believe the TSL60 amps did not have this issue. At least I never had a board conduction problem with mine.
It’s the 100W models that have the bad boards.
I was sweating looking through the comments in regards to the TSL 60. It's my only good amp, had it for years after picking it up for $200 from a pawn shop. Survived playing all through my 20s, hoped it wasn't cursed.
Maaf bhs indonesia punyak saya itu itu lampu yg samping kanan yg EL34 yg paling jau dari travo daya kok keluar merah maron yaa mohon bantuannya para suhu terus ad capasitor 22j kebakar itu ap ngaruh ke lampu yg di pegang tadi yg paling deket am lampu pin anoda pin 2 dan pin 3 ad jemperan capasitor 22j kebakar ap klu di biarkan akan ngaruh ke musik
I had one of these. Bias drift. Just like this one. I found a replacement board for $120 from a company in the UK. My amp tech replaced it and resolved all the issues with the new board, but the new board sounded like poop compared to the old one so I sold it. This is why I stopped buying Marshall’s and will never own another one. I still have my old 1973 super bass, but I’ll never buy another new one. Thanks Marshall.
Reduce, reuse, recycle, repair!
Lucky for me I don't see too many of these amps. With a bad board and sketchy EL34s they're almost valueless and more than one person has told me "Just put it back together and I'm going to dump it." A new board plus install and a quad of power tubes is nearly all the value that's in em. Good work steering people away from this turd hurricane.
Installing a kit bias mod, Instead of changing the board, will not solve the problem?
No, it won’t. The old board becomes conductive everywhere.
@@PsionicAudio What do you mean with becames everywhere?
Sorry, phone glitched my reply.
Just WOW. The quick disconnects the little white ones are rated at like 30 volts 60 at best if those are the ones I have seen. Hope no High voltage goes thru them . To take 20 versions to a board to fix the problem is not what I would call professional after 3 you need a new PCB designer and project lead and maybe a new supplier. As well I will not IMHO that statement just facts in that case.
Be fair. It was only 17.
Ish.
Fortunately I've bought my TSL with the new board already swapped.
Uggh... That jack panel board... Board mounted jacks... with PLASTIC threads. Possibly held to the back panel via plastic nuts on the plastic threads. Wouldn't it be better to have discrete metal Switchcraft jacks with detachable leads with modular connectors or spade lugs on the board where they need to connect?
Marshall - Such a shame to leave these artists out in the cold on this.
Excellent sounding amp, terribly fragile and prone to overheat, I remember the 50/60 watt version is more reliable though.
I have only used these amps since they came out ,, my combo just failed from 2001 ,, the tone of these amps loud with effects is incredible , worth every penny to fix ,,and super loud ,, mullard tubes with tung-sol 12ax7 my amp after repair that with a strat ua-cam.com/video/IZf916KFOyY/v-deo.htmlsi=sMHbhYqpYT0UkIS0 the hotter marshals get the better they sound ,,, hard for a tech to understand why people fix stuff .. but that Marshall I love it .. I bought the new DSL made in vietnam and sent it back sounded like a solid state amp ,no soul, ,, nothing like my made in England , so so much louder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Korg did not do any good for both Vox and Marshall. Just like the Harmen group profited at the expense of JBL reputation. It's a sad state we find ourselves in, especially for those of us who can remember what things were like when a reputation for quality and reliable performance was a great value. In watching your channel I have been glad I no longer do what you do. Thank you for your dedication.
I cringe every time I see those little "chicklet" style potentiometers ... have they gotten any better these days?
More and more common these days.
I have one in pieces i'll never fix it and i'll certainly never buy another Marshall product again. Many years ago i contacted marshall and they stated there never was a problem with conductive boards what bastards!
I am sorry. But why is EVERYTHING thats been built/so called designed in the last 10 years or so, CRAP with so many (Some times terminal/uneconomic) problems! Just cheap components/bad design?. I was always on the understanding as times went by we learnt, and things improved. I have my old 1976 Music man 2x10 65 and can honestly say apart from a fairly regular service and new tubes (Tubes: my decision, the old ones were fine apparently) I've NEVER had a problem with the old girl and she works and sounds fine! (To these old ears!) Sorry, most of these "newer"(Circus board) amps are basically destined for the landfill from day one! (and keeping Young Lyle busy)! Sorry,Old gits rant over! x
Accountants are top of the list IMHO. They seem to have taken over the world and know the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Had one got screwed over never buying Marshall again
I’ve one of these as well it’s spent more time broken then being used . Great sound terrible design and totally flawed
Those amps are abominations if you're a tech guy. Really bad boards and tons of jumper cables. Most of those cables have different ID# at each end. I was at a music store about 5 years ago and they had a stack of 7 of these waiting for somebody willing to repair them.
Traded my old tsl100 2 years ago. Still stuck with 2 JCM2000 Dsl100s. Fuck Marshall. I'll never buy another. I'm even gonna sell my 1983 JCM800 2203.
I'm in the same boat... my '98 JCM DSL 100 shit the bed well over a decade ago. I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere, so shipping this thing out would be a major pain, never mind shucking out over $200 for a Revision 20 board and a few hundred more to have it repaired. And even then there's no guarantee something else won't fail on it after I've gone to all that expense. The struggle is real...
Corporate Profits Uber Alles!
"if your DSL/TSL sounds funny" yeahhhh even in perfectly working order, they don't sound all that great 😬
Bought the TSL 100 new and to this day I will not by a Marshall. I'd love one of there new 20 watt vintage amps but it won't happen. What a crap company
Your commentary is bizarre and cannot be accurate. I have owned a TSL 100 for 25 years and I have so many friends with TSL's and DSL's. I've practiced with a 2000 series dsl for a few years and I've never heard of any of this nir had friends complain. Yes there are issues with the jacks being mounted to the pcb's that should be reflowed and the TSL's can smoke a resistor if your foot switch acts up and is left unrepaired. I believe you should put in fresh tubes every year or 2 for best tone and Amp health no matter what the existing tubes test like and I totally believe people playing old crap tubes has a lot to do with these problems. Other than that, I've never had an issue with my amp and have played every Rock club in my city many west coast theaters and 2 max security prisons thrown in for fun. Great sounding reliable amplifiers!
Ugh, those Chinese-built PCB Marshalls are all horrible.