Wonderful advice! I was another one of those kids that over the course of 15 years or so went from a Bach 7...to a 5....to a Schilke 14....to a 1.5....to a heavyweight 1.5. All because that was conventional wisdom. I even had a very, very well-respected teacher endorse this (whose orchestra shall remain nameless!). Sure, I had an arguably fuller tone but I couldn't even last 2 hours. Went back to a Bach 3 a few years ago, much more responsive than the 14 and frankly I haven't sounded better :)
Right ON, Jens. I have been saying the same thing in my clinics for the past 40 years. And too many times it is high school band directors and some college trumpet professors who force these kids to get bigger and bigger. A bigger mouthpiece does NOT give you a better tone. It gives you a darker tone. Some of the greatest players I have ever heard have played medium to medium small mouthpieces. And some have even played small mouthpieces.
Sorry to be off topic but does anybody know of a way to get back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me
@Brantley Grey Thanks for your reply. I found the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
Such wise wise words. Like most players I started on the 7c, then moved to a 3c. For some reason my teacher at the time advised going BIG, so I switched to a 1C. Big mistake. Now I'm back on a comparable 3c,
Went from Bach 7C to Schilke 15B, Denis Wich 1C, Curry 70m, 60M, and 5DE then 7C. Finally settled on a Bach 10 1/2 C. Bit of a detour in the wrong direction but now I'm happy.
Where was this video when I was in school!?! I did that very same thing. Stated on a 7C and landed on a 1C and felt like I accomplished something. Now I use a variation of a 10 1\2 D. I should have been using this size years ago.
Hi Jens, This makes perfect sense. Could you possibly elaborate about making a transition to a smaller diameter MPC? Some people suggest you down size incrementally until you find your niche, others say go for it but only play the Mpcs 20 mins a day in practice gradually expanding time until you land. What Bach diameter do you play............ Thanks for you insightful Video. Steve
I have gone from a Stork 3C to a Curry 7BC. I think that the cup diameter is not as important as the cup volume. I have better results with a deeper cup, especially if the cup has a v or semi-v style cup. But of course that is just me, as I play in small combos and seldom play above E above high C.
I just got a Yamaha 11 yesterday from this little music store I found, and it works perfectly for low notes and High. Im getting a low F# perfectly and my double C isn't too hard either. I'm thinking I'll get a 7E next for messing around, and eventually I want to get a 3C for performances.
well that made me feel less like i'm not completely stupid!. I always thought smaller rim bigger cup. stamina suckers are large rims, doesn't matter the cup depth, the wider the rim the more muscle support you need to control the length of lip between the diameter of the rim, the smaller the rim the less muscle tension to control the lip vibrating in the middle, the deeper cup produces the darker tone, not the width of the rim. If it was why does a large rim shallow cup sound bright, i cant help thinking it was just a way for Bach to sell more mouthpieces. I kinda saw the light when i was playing function gigs on a ginardinelli 3M, still got knackered, semi shallow cup but quite wide rim 17.00mm for fun i got a G2 mouthpiece from kunstal 16.00mm and a deep v cup to put in the music room as it was miles mouthpiece, tried it for a bit of fun at a gig, and found out i had a ton more stamina, and i sounded fatter (the rest of the bad said it) and the high range was way easier and much more stable. thanks so much for this!
Yeah, my director says small the number is better(bigger the size). He told me to get a 3c so I went out and spent 60$ on it and I cant even hit above a A above the staff consistently. So I use my 5c were I can get to the E above the staff with easy. Today he got mad at me cause I was using it and told me I should use the 3c, even though my low notes sound pretty good my range is horrible and I fish for notes to much.. But the only problem I have is my lips getting fatigue and slipping after tim
@bornaprince5 I'd say Jens is right, after all he is Jens. Also, I used to use a 1-1/4 c, but now I use around a Schilke 12 (16.69 mm) rim with brilliant results.
I play with a Vincent Bach 1B and it is good for low notes but not high. I was thinking about switching to a 3C, 3CW, and 3D. The 3C and the 3CW are the same thing except that 3CW is for people with thicker lips. Both are middle ranged I guess you could say. The 3D is for the high register. I'm not sure what to choose can anyone help me.
@bornaprince5 I believe that Lindemann was speaking mostly about cup size. I do however agree with you, big bore horns need big bore mpcs. They just won't get the right amount of sound filled air to vibrate the lead pipe.
Vibrations vs air volume. Have a listener sit at the back of a church or similar room. Take GR 65S 65MS and 65M mouthpieces and play them in order of shallowest to deepest. The listener at the back of the room hears more sound from the 65S because the concentration of vibrations projects better from the smaller backbore cup and less air volume but the player hears more wrap around the player feed back sound with the 65M. Maximum generation of vibrations and sound DOES NOT require BIG AIR VOLUME.
I've been playing the same 11B4 Yamaha mouthpiece for seven years. Especially in marching band, I am currently finding it difficult to play on. It's only a recent occurrence since last year. Why is it that I am having trouble now? It doesn't even seem like I've been having that much trouble before. I think it's time for me to experiment with different mouth pieces, but I just don't know where to start!
Finally...the truth is revealed!!! I've been saying this stuff for years and no one believed me. There is a reason a 'smaller" mpc is included with your instrument when you buy it new. Many of the old time players performed on the size 5 & 7 Bach-style rims, etc. Thanks for this video. Best Wishes!!!
I don’t agree at all, in my opinion, I think the bad thing on compact or shallow mpc is the tone, is piercing for a classic style , almost sound like a piccolo , but piccolo has beautiful unique quality of tone on small mpc , also, You don’t have to much chance to change the color or tone of the trumpet, all the time it’s strident and annoying for a classic piece , great for big band, lead or pops , I think the rim should be a little big ( 3) I love 1 , they allow great air flow, besides, the other great advantage is that 1 rim mpc blends beautiful even with cellos timpani and contrabasses ! on small pieces ( Reeves, Schilke, etc) the notes came easier in sense of range but your endurance and flexibility decrease a little bit and most important , I don’t want that cutting edge sound on a German symphony for instance , that would destroy the balance specially with F horns , symphonies become so glorious on fff with a big piece. From a pedagogical standpoint , I think the big pieces help students to become ready for any situation ,I love small pieces for comercial but I just practice this mpc with picc or a little lead solo , not too much , and if you put your players to chose they are going to say -- small !!! -- they want the mpc to be their héroe , they don’t want to work and develop a great tone on those big pieces , please hear Arturo S. On big pieces , what a monster player , he used 3C in Cuba 3C on his student days, obviously for a tiny girl we should use a 10.5 piece , but is an exception, just my opinion .
Allen Vizzutti played a Schilke 14A4(c) for everything when he was in college. Orchestra, pops, jazz ensemble ... everything. And no one could tell he was playing on such a shallow mouthpiece.
@@ronaldinnewmexico1912 again, the issue here is the style, you cannot play the Mahler 5 with a small piece, by the way there are tons of players that fits better than Vizzutti in orchestral music. Allen is soloist he can use and sound whatever he wants .
@@ralphnuolo3359 I think the point of the video is that we should have the freedom to choose what we want to play; we shouldn't let someone else *tell* us what to play. That's what Vizzutti did. If we're more comfortable on a smaller mouthpiece, we should just play it and ignore the jackasses who will ridicule us because we dare to think for ourselves. Jens was referring to the general trumpet population, not to professionals playing Mahler 5. There is a place for large mouthpieces in the world. He didn't deny that.
💀💀 your talking about one of the best trumpet players in the world playing on a 5C. Use what works for you, it’s all tailored to the player. Not every mouthpiece is meant for everyone
FINALLY somebody making sense about MPCS! This is what I've been preaching for 20 years!
timely, wise words!
Wonderful advice! I was another one of those kids that over the course of 15 years or so went from a Bach 7...to a 5....to a Schilke 14....to a 1.5....to a heavyweight 1.5. All because that was conventional wisdom. I even had a very, very well-respected teacher endorse this (whose orchestra shall remain nameless!). Sure, I had an arguably fuller tone but I couldn't even last 2 hours. Went back to a Bach 3 a few years ago, much more responsive than the 14 and frankly I haven't sounded better :)
Right ON, Jens. I have been saying the same thing in my clinics for the past 40 years. And too many times it is high school band directors and some college trumpet professors who force these kids to get bigger and bigger. A bigger mouthpiece does NOT give you a better tone. It gives you a darker tone. Some of the greatest players I have ever heard have played medium to medium small mouthpieces. And some have even played small mouthpieces.
Very well stated! I struggled for years using a Bach 1 1/2 C. I eventually went back to my old Bach 7C, been working out great. Thanks for sharing. JT
Sorry to be off topic but does anybody know of a way to get back into an Instagram account?
I somehow forgot my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me
@Marc Kaden instablaster ;)
@Brantley Grey Thanks for your reply. I found the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Brantley Grey It worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much you really help me out!
@Marc Kaden Happy to help =)
Such wise wise words. Like most players I started on the 7c, then moved to a 3c. For some reason my teacher at the time advised going BIG, so I switched to a 1C. Big mistake. Now I'm back on a comparable 3c,
I have always focused my mind to play the trumpet using a smaller mouthpiece. I agree 100% with this point of view.
Went from Bach 7C to Schilke 15B, Denis Wich 1C, Curry 70m, 60M, and 5DE then 7C. Finally settled on a Bach 10 1/2 C. Bit of a detour in the wrong direction but now I'm happy.
Where was this video when I was in school!?! I did that very same thing. Stated on a 7C and landed on a 1C and felt like I accomplished something. Now I use a variation of a 10 1\2 D. I should have been using this size years ago.
Hi Jens,
This makes perfect sense. Could you possibly elaborate about making a transition to a smaller diameter MPC? Some people suggest you down size incrementally until you find your niche, others say go for it but only play the Mpcs 20 mins a day in practice gradually expanding time until you land. What Bach diameter do you play............
Thanks for you insightful Video.
Steve
Been using yamaha 14, now trying out 1 c sounding a bit fuller, will see
I have gone from a Stork 3C to a Curry 7BC. I think that the cup diameter is not as important as the cup volume. I have better results with a deeper cup, especially if the cup has a v or semi-v style cup. But of course that is just me, as I play in small combos and seldom play above E above high C.
I just got a Yamaha 11 yesterday from this little music store I found, and it works perfectly for low notes and High.
Im getting a low F# perfectly and my double C isn't too hard either.
I'm thinking I'll get a 7E next for messing around, and eventually I want to get a 3C for performances.
well that made me feel less like i'm not completely stupid!. I always thought smaller rim bigger cup.
stamina suckers are large rims, doesn't matter the cup depth, the wider the rim the more muscle support you need to control the length of lip between the diameter of the rim, the smaller the rim the less muscle tension to control the lip vibrating in the middle, the deeper cup produces the darker tone, not the width of the rim.
If it was why does a large rim shallow cup sound bright, i cant help thinking it was just a way for Bach to sell more mouthpieces.
I kinda saw the light when i was playing function gigs on a ginardinelli 3M, still got knackered, semi shallow cup but quite wide rim 17.00mm for fun i got a G2 mouthpiece from kunstal 16.00mm and a deep v cup to put in the music room as it was miles mouthpiece, tried it for a bit of fun at a gig, and found out i had a ton more stamina, and i sounded fatter (the rest of the bad said it) and the high range was way easier and much more stable.
thanks so much for this!
Yeah, my director says small the number is better(bigger the size). He told me to get a 3c so I went out and spent 60$ on it and I cant even hit above a A above the staff consistently. So I use my 5c were I can get to the E above the staff with easy. Today he got mad at me cause I was using it and told me I should use the 3c, even though my low notes sound pretty good my range is horrible and I fish for notes to much.. But the only problem I have is my lips getting fatigue and slipping after tim
Thanks for telling the truth.
I wish I had seen this when I was in High School...
I LIKE THIS GUY.
@bornaprince5 I'd say Jens is right, after all he is Jens. Also, I used to use a 1-1/4 c, but now I use around a Schilke 12 (16.69 mm) rim with brilliant results.
I play with a Vincent Bach 1B and it is good for low notes but not high. I was thinking about switching to a 3C, 3CW, and 3D. The 3C and the 3CW are the same thing except that 3CW is for people with thicker lips. Both are middle ranged I guess you could say. The 3D is for the high register. I'm not sure what to choose can anyone help me.
Now, THIS is good!!! Amen Maestro Lindemann! FWIIW coming from me, these are words of wisdom!
@bornaprince5 I believe that Lindemann was speaking mostly about cup size. I do however agree with you, big bore horns need big bore mpcs. They just won't get the right amount of sound filled air to vibrate the lead pipe.
Maynard Ferguson used very small mouthpieces with very large bore horns.
Vibrations vs air volume. Have a listener sit at the back of a church or similar room. Take GR 65S 65MS and 65M mouthpieces and play them in order of shallowest to deepest. The listener at the back of the room hears more sound from the 65S because the concentration of vibrations projects better from the smaller backbore cup and less air volume but the player hears more wrap around the player feed back sound with the 65M. Maximum generation of vibrations and sound DOES NOT require BIG AIR VOLUME.
Absolutely right! Its a myth..Since i play a Schilke 6a4a i finally can play for hours even in the upper register.. thanks master Lindemann!!!
I've been playing the same 11B4 Yamaha mouthpiece for seven years. Especially in marching band, I am currently finding it difficult to play on. It's only a recent occurrence since last year. Why is it that I am having trouble now? It doesn't even seem like I've been having that much trouble before. I think it's time for me to experiment with different mouth pieces, but I just don't know where to start!
Daniel II im going through the same thing its gettin difficult for me to play idk what size i should go next to help me play better
am i cheating since i use a 6a4a? im in a marching band and i need to play high plus it gives me a brighter sound
No such thing as cheating if it works for you and sounds good
Finally...the truth is revealed!!! I've been saying this stuff for years and no one believed me. There is a reason a 'smaller" mpc is included with your instrument when you buy it new. Many of the old time players performed on the size 5 & 7 Bach-style rims, etc. Thanks for this video. Best Wishes!!!
I've been saying this since I was 16. Sometimes common sense can finally emerge in a world predicated on "herd mentality".
I don’t agree at all, in my opinion, I think the bad thing on compact or shallow mpc is the tone, is piercing for a classic style , almost sound like a piccolo , but piccolo has beautiful unique quality of tone on small mpc , also, You don’t have to much chance to change the color or tone of the trumpet, all the time it’s strident and annoying for a classic piece , great for big band, lead or pops , I think the rim should be a little big ( 3) I love 1 , they allow great air flow, besides, the other great advantage is that 1 rim mpc blends beautiful even with cellos timpani and contrabasses ! on small pieces ( Reeves, Schilke, etc) the notes came easier in sense of range but your endurance and flexibility decrease a little bit and most important , I don’t want that cutting edge sound on a German symphony for instance , that would destroy the balance specially with F horns , symphonies become so glorious on fff with a big piece.
From a pedagogical standpoint , I think the big pieces help students to become ready for any situation ,I love small pieces for comercial but I just practice this mpc with picc or a little lead solo , not too much , and if you put your players to chose they are going to say -- small !!! -- they want the mpc to be their héroe , they don’t want to work and develop a great tone on those big pieces , please hear Arturo S. On big pieces , what a monster player , he used 3C in Cuba 3C on his student days, obviously for a tiny girl we should use a 10.5 piece , but is an exception, just my opinion .
Allen Vizzutti played a Schilke 14A4(c) for everything when he was in college. Orchestra, pops, jazz ensemble ... everything. And no one could tell he was playing on such a shallow mouthpiece.
@@ronaldinnewmexico1912 again, the issue here is the style, you cannot play the Mahler 5 with a small piece, by the way there are tons of players that fits better than Vizzutti in orchestral music. Allen is soloist he can use and sound whatever he wants .
@@ralphnuolo3359 I think the point of the video is that we should have the freedom to choose what we want to play; we shouldn't let someone else *tell* us what to play. That's what Vizzutti did. If we're more comfortable on a smaller mouthpiece, we should just play it and ignore the jackasses who will ridicule us because we dare to think for ourselves. Jens was referring to the general trumpet population, not to professionals playing Mahler 5. There is a place for large mouthpieces in the world. He didn't deny that.
@@IndianOutlaw1870 yes but, everything is ok, but… he said… nobody can tell you what to use….
@javy0005 2 and a half FTW!
I kept wondering about these apparently very common BOCK mouthpieces I had never heard of for the most part of the video
This really triggers people who can't see outside their traditions.
He only picks a small mouthpiece so he can party a lot and not practice
💀💀 your talking about one of the best trumpet players in the world playing on a 5C. Use what works for you, it’s all tailored to the player. Not every mouthpiece is meant for everyone
Allen Vizzutti plays an even smaller mouthpiece. Does he party too?