Using LIPSTICK to choose a BETTER mouthpiece?
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- This video is sponsored by Vennture Mouthpieces. Get 10% off any Vennture Mouthpiece order with my unique coupon code PUCKERUP at vennture.mp - and each purchase also helps support my channel!
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Check out this other video about creating my custom mouthpieces with Vennture Mouthpieces - • How to design YOUR OWN...
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Have you ever heard of the LIPSTICK TEST? It's a way to measure lip intrusion (also sometimes called lip engagement) on brass instruments - or how far your lips go into the cup of your mouthpiece when you’re playing. Everybody’s lip intrusion is going to be different and depends on many factors like the structure and size of your teeth and lips as well as how your embouchure functions - and it matters because lip intrusion can even affect what kinds of mouthpieces might work well for you! Watch this episode to watch Courtney and I get glammed up and learn about lip intrusion along the way.
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Links:
Vennture Mouthpieces - www.vennture.mp/
VennCAD (the mouthpiece software) - www.vennture.mp/venncad/downl...
Wet & Wild Megalast Matte Finish, Stoplight Red Lipstick - www.wetnwildbeauty.com/mega-l...
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:16 Lip Intrusion/Engagement
0:36 Lipstick comparison
1:33 Jon's LIPSTICK TEST
2:14 Vennture Mouthpieces
2:43 Courtney's LIPSTICK TEST
3:01 Comparing Lipstick Test Results
3:34 Signs your lip is intruding too far
4:35 Will you do your own lipstick test?
If you enjoyed the lipstick test, learn more about mouthpiece design in this video - ua-cam.com/video/l3KiV0XMIlA/v-deo.html
Personally I use a Bach 1-1/2A for trumpet because small IDs are tough for me but on low brass, smaller ID, sharper bite, and deeper cup make a great combination! Cool video!
That makes total sense, Sam! When I was in high school I also played euphonium, trombone, and tuba and especially for those wicked high euph parts in tuba quartets I used a very narrow but deep Schilke mouthpiece. Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@JonTalksTrumpet What Schilke was it? Was it 51D (more on the smaller side if ordinarily used euphonium pieces, but still normal sized), or something even smaller like a Schilke 44E4 (super narrow for euphonium, but deep-ish cup)?
I did it and it was a bloodbath. Lipstick stuck in places I didn't know the mouthpiece had.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I will say, the lipsticks that I tried that were objectively better lipsticks seemed to smear more and leave a less definite indicator of lip intrusion. The one I used was 1.99 at Walmart and was not good objectively but the print was much clearer on the mouthpiece.
Really informative as always. Thank you for your effort!
My lips tends to intrude a lot into the cup and that makes my choice of mouthpiece quite restricted than the others do, especially on a piccolo mouthpiece since all the so called standards like 7EW or 11AX didn’t really work out for me.
Since your size of bigger mouthpiece quite resembles to mine, I’m curious about which mouthpiece you are playing on piccolo. And possibly some commercial piece on a bigger horn as well. Thank you!
Hey!! So glad you enjoyed it and felt it was informative. Yes, same, never could use 7EW or 11AX or most other typically shallow pieces for very long.
For pops I use a version of my regular orchestral mouthpiece with a bit of volume taken out of just the bottom of the cup, which I designed with Vennture Mouthpieces. That way my lip intrusion is consistent between my regular piece and the one I use for pops! For picc, I use another vennture piece that was constructed using a Parke 620 rim (a 1X style flat rim, but in a 7 diameter), a 10.5C cup made a little shallower at the bottom, 27 throat, 117 backbore. If you’re curious about the vennture thing, check out my other video titled “designing your own trumpet mouthpiece” where I talk about what they do and how they do it. Thanks for commenting - good luck on your trumpet quest!
Jon, this is super cool experiment. I certainly will do it and see how my lips interact with the mouthpiece.
So glad you think so! Please do try it and let me know what you discover.
Funny John, albeit a tad unorthodox...not that that's a bad thing tho! In my 30+ years of teaching Trumpet, I've found that most cats are simply going to go with what "feels" best on their chops...the old school cats went with what produced the best sound, regardless of how hard they had to work to achieve those results. OFC, looking back, you didn't have as many choices back in the day
Awesome!
If I could ever work myself up enough to get through the lipstick application in the first place, I'd love to see how the various mouthpieces I play differ in lip intrusion (i.e. Bach 1.5C vs. Pickett orchestral vs. Jet-Tone lead)!
The lipstick test was SO easy!! The hardest part was finding the right one so it would stick best. The one I chose was $2 at Walmart. For a later video I will definitely compare lip engagement on several very different mouthpieces.
Loved this video lol!! Great thinking, man! (Curry 50S Blackjack)
So glad you enjoyed it Alex!! Love Curry pieces ❤️❤️❤️
I'm a former trumpet player (former student of Ed Tarr) and since 1995 a bass trombonist. In 2014 I junked all my "standard" mouthpieces and went to the Wedge. I know these are controversial mouthpieces. But it would interest me to get your impression of one. Dr. Dave gives all buyers a 90 day trial with money back guarantee, so you only risk the shipping of $10.00 and once you've finished evaluating it, you send it back and get your money back.
Tip: As opposoed to what seems intuitive, the small marking on the outside of the m-piece are put onto the lips in the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions, NOT side to side.
Hey! Thanks for watching and commenting!!! That’s amazing that you got to be a student to the great Ed Tarr. What a legend. I have played a wedge before and I definitely learned a lot from the experience - I talk about it briefly in a video I made about my “mouthpiece breakups” - which you can check out here if you’re interested to hear my take. ua-cam.com/video/df2rvlO8mb0/v-deo.html
@@JonTalksTrumpet - as soon as I played my first Wedge, I knew I was on the right path. I settled on the Wedge S59, which corresponds with the Schilke 59, a standard bass trombone piece. i looved the fullness and richness of the sound with it's core. The only piece that sounded marginally better was a Hammond 21BL, but that was waaaay to bog. 95% of what I needed to do worked great on the S59 -- except the famous bass trombone solo in the Creation. It has a 2-octave jump in a melisma that just didn't work on that piece. In fact the high range was the only thing that i didn't like. I worked up to being able to play high, but it was thin sounding. So i figured, I'd stick through the high register and if need be, I'd use my Yamaha 58 for pieces that didn't go really low, but where lightness and the high register were necessary.
Then between COVID putting the brakes on everything and a family loss, that meant I pretty much stopped playing for about 9 months, when I came back, I started on that Hammond and concentrated on my low register. But at the end of the day, the Hammond was just really to big, but then ... suddenly so was the S59. I did have a Wedge 1.5G and suddenly, with having worked on my low register, everything was there I'd looked for. Range, endurance, articulation, just a shade of darkness and richness of the S59 was still missing. I talk to Dr. Dave and he sent me a 108 Gen 2. In between a Bach 1.5G and Bach 1.25G with the throat of the S59. After taking 2 weeks trading back and forth between the 1.5G and this 108 Gen 2, settled on the later.
Now having watched you breakup video, a LOT of what you described resonated. The only thing "missing" might be the slightly more crisp attacks of the Hammond. Might.
Now, as to having studied with Ed Tarr. Best thing I ever did for me musically and philosophically. Funny enough, he open my mind up to taking responsibility for interpretations based upon a mixture of knowledge of history, style, performance practice and pragmatisism. My previous teacher showed us excerpts and said "Max Rudolph wanted it this way, but Thomas Schippers wanted it this way. And X wanteed it this way." When asked WHY, his answer was "because, at the end of the day, they signed your pay check". this wasn't enough for me because I knew, I'd never be good enough to get an orchestral job. But I did have chops and Brandenburgs. Ed also didn't so much teach his interpretations, but he demanded I coome up with mine and then justify it to him. He'd often end up saying "Ok, I understand why you came to this interpretation, you looked at the score and the sources. I would do it differently, but that's ok too." Best lessons in my life-time.
So brave. Thanks Jon for all your great content. Very informative stuff.
#InJonWeTrust
Haha! Thank you very much for saying that, it's my pleasure.
Have you tried any mouthpiece made from titanium? Can you tell me you opinoin regarding differences in feeling gold/silver/titanium rim? (I feel more secure with silver vs gold and I am curious about titanium) Thank you for your time.
I play a stainless Giddings and Webster mouthpiece after several other silver mouthpieces. I'm rather happy w/ my choice in the never ending mouthpiece safari
Does this work for trombone players as well?
Sure, of course! Same principle applies. Might be less influential on trombone because of it's much larger internal volume but lip intrusion is still very much a thing and the lipstick test is well suited to show it to you on any brass instrument.
@@JonTalksTrumpet Thanks
So is lip intrusion bad 😂? I feel like I missed the point of the lipstick
Lip intrusion is normal - the lipstick is to show you how far into the mouthpiece your lips are really going. Then, based on how much intrusion you see, you can make better mouthpiece decisions. If you have a lot of lip intrusion but need a piccolo trumpet mouthpiece, and you pick up a Bach 7EW, you’re likely to swell into it and bottom out - which means you might want to try a cup with more vertical sides (deeper usual) and a sharper rim bite. It’s a diagnostic tool!! Hope that helps.