At 14:08 he mentions 3 points of damage, in another video i watched by Crabbok (@ 24:50) he states that it's how many cards in the combo. So is it damage or card count for monster retaliation?
very good. i didn't have to exclude the theme and setting to say that, either. i have no problem with the gritty world, and the immature chainmail bikinis are just minor annoyances. it's a very strong design (though i haven't seen how the save system works, which could make or break it)
Wow this is crazy. We've been working on a very similar idea. But all the things that have stumped me or I felt weren't great the designers over at awaken realms just prove they are in a league of their own. I wonder what the cmon narrative adventure game is going to do with the genre.
This looks to share some large similarities to 7th continent and a bit of smaller ones to City of Kings. Any thoughts on the comparison Rhado? Thanks and great video.
i think they're very comparable. TG i think has a better design for co-op, 7C was always a solo game with multiplayer sort of taked on. I'd say they have comparable amount of content in the main box. the world changes more in 7C than TG, but you have to do a lot more filing and busywork keeping track of all the cards as a result. TG has a much stronger narrative woven throughout. it's also, of course, much darker and grimmer...
i'd have to compare them with the runebound co-op expansion, since by default ruenbound isn't (and it's a much weaker experience, IMO, when played competitively). so comparing them as solo/co-op, they're comparable in terms of production quality (both very high). they've both got very cleverl combat systems, with TG being a bit more thinkey and puzzzley and RB being more lighthearted and quick. TG requires a MUCH higher level of time commitment than RB, which is good or bad depending on your preferences. Overall RB is a faster moving game and I think has more long term replayability, but its narrative element is much weaker. Of course, TG is much darker and gritty, while RB is more easy going standard fantasy fare.
Thanks for the reply @@rahdo, from what I have seen and heard, more from your video than others, is that this is more of a story with a game element, than a game with a story element. I initially did not want to back this, as I am after speed and replayability. But I think what you said will make me see it in a different light, thanks
@@chriswinston1223 i wouldn't necessarily agree, based on what i've seen. you earn experience *very* slowly in this game, and things get progressively more expensive they higher you level (like an MMO). some of the card upgrades that you swap into your deck can be pretty costly.
What are your thoughts on the rest of the story, minus serious spoilers? Would there be anything else that you might find it off-putting for some people?
well of course i've only seen a small portion of what the game will have, but there were certainly other dark passages in there. a lot stuff about players grave robbing that was just sort of icky feeling, for instance. or really sad bits dealing with suicide because of desperate situations. stuff like that. it's all thematically appropriate for a total end of the world apocalypse, but it's often very heavy...
@@rahdo I really like how heavy and dark this is. A very mature setting. I am primarily a pen-and-paper and video game player, and my favorite titles include stuff like Vampire the Masquerade and Dark Souls, so this is right up my alley. I never play tabletop, but this is a unique mix of pen-and-paper storytelling, tabletop mechanics and grimdark videogame visuals, and I highly, highly recommend it
@Rahdo I'm worried the dark theme will be turn off for my game group. The weightiness may be a little too much for my wife and I. The dark and heavy decision, like the one you mentioned, are those commonplace? Or could you please shed a little more light on it?
well of course i've only seen a small portion of what the game will have, but there were certainly other dark passages in there. a lot stuff about players grave robbing that was just sort of icky feeling, for instance. or really sad bits dealing with suicide because of desperate situations. stuff like that. it's all thematically appropriate for a total end of the world apocalypse, but it's often very heavy...
it's a term for a specific type of gameplay, that focuses more heavily on storytelling and lots of dramatic swings of luck, with less strategy overall. it was originally created as a putdown of this sort of "trashy" gameplay, but fans of the genre adopted it as a point of pride and changed the trash to mean that you spend a lot of time "trashing" your opponents stuff in dice based combat :)
Sorry, I think I missed the part where you talk about the skills and deep thought processes needed to successfully overcome this challenge. Seems like another game where you take one of 2 or 3 options and hope for the best.
there are plenty of occasions where you have to puzzle out the best way to proceed, mostly having to do with splitting up and getting back together at the right time because different characters have different strengths, but dealing with barriers or timed events that get in the way of ideal proceedure. plus, the puzzle of combat/diplomacy. sometimes the showdowns are pretty simple, but they can get fairly complex (especially when you start adding more advanced cards to your decks).
rahdo thank you Richard. I tend to think the story line and thematic experience is the take away which is fine if that is your thing. I appreciate what you are saying but it still feels very “non-thinks”. Thanks for your reply
This game looks fantastic and was hoping to play it with my kids but now with how dark and grim you say it is and with the example you shared I am hesitant to back it. Bummer
I'd say this is not suitable for children at all. There is death, suicide, desperation, disease, violence, nihilism. This may be ok for teenagers but not children in any way.
For the concerned here's a more clear depiction of the "rape scene": www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/tainted-grail-the-fall-of-avalon/comments?comment=UHJvamVjdENvbW1lbnQtMjI1MjQ4NDI%3D
Hmm... I think I'm in, but there is a difference between dark for dark's sake and mature content. How did you feel this game strode that line? I feel like TWoM got a good rep for dealing with it in a good way, so I assume care was taken but no punches pulled.
the super grim nature doesn't feel gratuitous to me. i only called it out because i've seen so many folks say they can't wait to play this with their kids, and the hobbit this is not! this is basically game of thrones during the apocalypse
I really Like your Review and thanks for the Warning at the end. I like it, just hoping the rest of my company dose so too:) But there is also a Solomode:) Just one thing for non native speakers its sometimes a bit hard to follow you but i love your enthusiasm:)
Its too bad that there are only two squares to put in the attributes, especially when the game is soo long you will level up your attributes quite fast and then you only have weapon or maybe other skills left to get, but i see that there are too little progression for a game that has 40+ hour gameplay in it. Hope they expand the attributes tree
after you've put 2 cubes in an attribute, you start adding powers to attributes, so instead of a 3rd cube, you add a unique power. instead of a 4th cube, you add a 2nd unique power. etc.
I am in dire need of a proper runthrough of SAKURA ARMS nobody has a video out on how to play and the explanation of the rules is terrible as its translated to english. Please can you do a runthrough of the game. Thanks.
One problem I see is with the replayability. Maybe I misunderstood but I was watching a different video and they showed paper that you had to mark to show when you was affected by something. Is it truly possible to play the campaign more than once without issue?
Why would "dark and grim" be considered a con when choosing a game? I dont understand this unless you re wanting to play it with your 5 year old son/daughter. That actually provides so much immersion in a world where you kill people to survive and loot from.
@@rahdoExactly my point. A "con" in my understanding is a disadvantage the game has when compared to a certain standard. Being "Dark and gritty" is a characteristic relative to the theme in this case. That s the equivalent to criticising a game for being a dungeon crawler or a puzzle, etc. So your self righteous reply doesnt make sense. Leave the schooling to your children and acolytes. Next time i wont comment as if you were intelligent.
@RogueNinja wow, you seem to be a thoroughly unpleasant and immature person. how unfortunate, i didn't think that was the case from your previous posts on the channel...
@@rahdo yes of course, says the guy who insults other people s intelligence with arrogant remarks. Get over yourself. Yes I m unpleasant but honest and there s nothing wrong with that ;)
Wow, your ten second comment about the "grim" setting and an aside about so-called chain mail bikinis has set off a firestorm of negativity in the KS forum. Not sure why people can't take your advice and pass on a game if it doesn't agree with their tastes or sensibilities.
I can agree with you, but I also cannot miss the fact that one of the very first things you notice when looking at the Kickstarter preview of this game is a pin-up picture of a nearly nude woman who looks as if she is posing for a Playboy magazine and not preparing to leave on a grim adventure. It's really not a reason for a slew of negativity, but it does kinda communicate that the game is aimed at prepubescent males who like oogling pretty fantasy chicks and not people who want deep, engaging gameplay experience.
Nobody was raging about the sexual content of this game. The negativity wasn't coming from the ones who were simply requesting for transparency and politely expressing their disappointment at their surprise. They weren't demanding things change to conform THEIR whims. NO ONE wanted censorship. Several said it's simply not the game for them and will move on. Others that it was not great, but they'll look past it. The negativity (then) was coming from some of the other side.
ah well. it's a shame that the 'firestorm' is all from the 'defenders' of the game being rude, dismissive and insulting, while those who have concerns they'd like to express are generally polite and civil. it's funny how it always seems to turn out this way... but that's just the internet, bringing out the worst in people i suppose. gotta take the bad with the good...
Really Rahdo? I find it odd that those with so many issues with the game are backing it nevertheless, yet pestering the designers/company to no end to make changes that the majority of backers are not asking for. If you don't like a game (for any reason!) then move on and back or buy one of the myriad of other games available to you. There are games for all tastes. I like games about tea. Outrageous, I know, but that's just me.
which is why i mentioned it, because it's not something you often see in boardgames, and didn't want anyone to be unnecessarily surprised, especially folks who might plan to play the game with their kids.
Huh... a grim and dark fantasy world that has some dark real events that happen all the time in our world and people are super weird about it? Rape or other kinds of sexual assault can be a powerful narrative tool. Y'all have no problems lobbing a dudes head clean off his shoulders or burn some guy alive with magic but assault crosses that line... right... It doesn't seem glorified or overly gratuitous. It fits the setting and that's all that really matters. I just think it sounds weird to hear Rahdo with his overly enthusiastic voice talk about it.
different people have different personal lines. They have a right to them and to know if a game crosses that threshold. I don't get the complaining about people politely expressing ONE dislike for a game.
I'm with Jen here. I understand that the game is grim and dark, but also feel that the rape story is unnecessary and is just put there for the sake of the shock effect. It could potentially ruin an otherwise good/fun gamenight.
Mmm. I disagree. But mostly because of taste. I prefer shocking and provocative, dark content. But I come from pen-and-paper and video gaming, so naturally tabletop would not have that.
The creators posted the actual text from the event in question; it's honestly nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out.....completly blown out of proportion
instant back. I look forward to being drawn into this story and see everything the game has to offer. Thanks for the preview Rahdo
The Kickstarter is live. This is myfirst ever backing, really happy. It got funded in 2 minutes.
Unfortunately, it was funded in 1 minute. ;)
At 14:08 he mentions 3 points of damage, in another video i watched by Crabbok (@ 24:50) he states that it's how many cards in the combo. So is it damage or card count for monster retaliation?
crabbok is wrong i'm afraid!
here's the rules if you want to check for yourself: static.gamefound.com/taintedgrail/rulebook_web.pdf :)
@@rahdo thanks for the clarification :)
@rahdo If you exclude the theme and dark setting, gameplay wise how did you find it as a coop, story game?
very good. i didn't have to exclude the theme and setting to say that, either. i have no problem with the gritty world, and the immature chainmail bikinis are just minor annoyances. it's a very strong design (though i haven't seen how the save system works, which could make or break it)
@@rahdo Thanks!
Wow this is crazy. We've been working on a very similar idea. But all the things that have stumped me or I felt weren't great the designers over at awaken realms just prove they are in a league of their own. I wonder what the cmon narrative adventure game is going to do with the genre.
Instant back. Great company!!
This looks to share some large similarities to 7th continent and a bit of smaller ones to City of Kings. Any thoughts on the comparison Rhado? Thanks and great video.
i think they're very comparable. TG i think has a better design for co-op, 7C was always a solo game with multiplayer sort of taked on. I'd say they have comparable amount of content in the main box. the world changes more in 7C than TG, but you have to do a lot more filing and busywork keeping track of all the cards as a result. TG has a much stronger narrative woven throughout. it's also, of course, much darker and grimmer...
@@rahdo Thank you for the reply. That helps a lot.
Thanks for the preview! This convinced me to back the game.
So, Rahdo let me ask you, how do you compare it to FFG's Runebound?
i'd have to compare them with the runebound co-op expansion, since by default ruenbound isn't (and it's a much weaker experience, IMO, when played competitively).
so comparing them as solo/co-op, they're comparable in terms of production quality (both very high). they've both got very cleverl combat systems, with TG being a bit more thinkey and puzzzley and RB being more lighthearted and quick. TG requires a MUCH higher level of time commitment than RB, which is good or bad depending on your preferences. Overall RB is a faster moving game and I think has more long term replayability, but its narrative element is much weaker. Of course, TG is much darker and gritty, while RB is more easy going standard fantasy fare.
Thanks for the reply @@rahdo, from what I have seen and heard, more from your video than others, is that this is more of a story with a game element, than a game with a story element. I initially did not want to back this, as I am after speed and replayability. But I think what you said will make me see it in a different light, thanks
I was waiting for this!!
The character development seems fairly limited for a campaign that is 15 chapters long.
Too early to say for sure.
@@chriswinston1223 i wouldn't necessarily agree, based on what i've seen. you earn experience *very* slowly in this game, and things get progressively more expensive they higher you level (like an MMO). some of the card upgrades that you swap into your deck can be pretty costly.
What are your thoughts on the rest of the story, minus serious spoilers? Would there be anything else that you might find it off-putting for some people?
well of course i've only seen a small portion of what the game will have, but there were certainly other dark passages in there. a lot stuff about players grave robbing that was just sort of icky feeling, for instance. or really sad bits dealing with suicide because of desperate situations. stuff like that.
it's all thematically appropriate for a total end of the world apocalypse, but it's often very heavy...
@@rahdo I really like how heavy and dark this is. A very mature setting. I am primarily a pen-and-paper and video game player, and my favorite titles include stuff like Vampire the Masquerade and Dark Souls, so this is right up my alley. I never play tabletop, but this is a unique mix of pen-and-paper storytelling, tabletop mechanics and grimdark videogame visuals, and I highly, highly recommend it
@Rahdo I'm worried the dark theme will be turn off for my game group. The weightiness may be a little too much for my wife and I. The dark and heavy decision, like the one you mentioned, are those commonplace? Or could you please shed a little more light on it?
well of course i've only seen a small portion of what the game will have, but there were certainly other dark passages in there. a lot stuff about players grave robbing that was just sort of icky feeling, for instance. or really sad bits dealing with suicide because of desperate situations. stuff like that.
it's all thematically appropriate for a total end of the world apocalypse, but it's often very heavy...
@@rahdo I always appreciate your quick responses and not beating around the bush about things. Thank you!
Any game with a character named Maggot can’t be bad.
Forgive my lack of boardgame terminology...but is "ameritrash" a bad thing like the name suggests? What does it mean?
it's a term for a specific type of gameplay, that focuses more heavily on storytelling and lots of dramatic swings of luck, with less strategy overall. it was originally created as a putdown of this sort of "trashy" gameplay, but fans of the genre adopted it as a point of pride and changed the trash to mean that you spend a lot of time "trashing" your opponents stuff in dice based combat :)
Sorry, I think I missed the part where you talk about the skills and deep thought processes needed to successfully overcome this challenge. Seems like another game where you take one of 2 or 3 options and hope for the best.
there are plenty of occasions where you have to puzzle out the best way to proceed, mostly having to do with splitting up and getting back together at the right time because different characters have different strengths, but dealing with barriers or timed events that get in the way of ideal proceedure. plus, the puzzle of combat/diplomacy. sometimes the showdowns are pretty simple, but they can get fairly complex (especially when you start adding more advanced cards to your decks).
rahdo thank you Richard. I tend to think the story line and thematic experience is the take away which is fine if that is your thing. I appreciate what you are saying but it still feels very “non-thinks”. Thanks for your reply
I always appreciate your candid carebear opinions Rhado, but I have a feeling the designers regret sending you a review copy of this one...
This game looks fantastic and was hoping to play it with my kids but now with how dark and grim you say it is and with the example you shared I am hesitant to back it. Bummer
I'd say this is not suitable for children at all. There is death, suicide, desperation, disease, violence, nihilism. This may be ok for teenagers but not children in any way.
is the board always the same? That feels like a bummer.
For the concerned here's a more clear depiction of the "rape scene":
www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/tainted-grail-the-fall-of-avalon/comments?comment=UHJvamVjdENvbW1lbnQtMjI1MjQ4NDI%3D
Hmm... I think I'm in, but there is a difference between dark for dark's sake and mature content. How did you feel this game strode that line? I feel like TWoM got a good rep for dealing with it in a good way, so I assume care was taken but no punches pulled.
the super grim nature doesn't feel gratuitous to me. i only called it out because i've seen so many folks say they can't wait to play this with their kids, and the hobbit this is not! this is basically game of thrones during the apocalypse
@@rahdo Very cool, thanks for that :) Awesome rundown per usual :)
I really Like your Review and thanks for the Warning at the end. I like it, just hoping the rest of my company dose so too:)
But there is also a Solomode:)
Just one thing for non native speakers its sometimes a bit hard to follow you but i love your enthusiasm:)
Thanks for the insight into content. I appreciate the heads-up!
Its too bad that there are only two squares to put in the attributes, especially when the game is soo long you will level up your attributes quite fast and then you only have weapon or maybe other skills left to get, but i see that there are too little progression for a game that has 40+ hour gameplay in it. Hope they expand the attributes tree
after you've put 2 cubes in an attribute, you start adding powers to attributes, so instead of a 3rd cube, you add a unique power. instead of a 4th cube, you add a 2nd unique power. etc.
I am in dire need of a proper runthrough of SAKURA ARMS nobody has a video out on how to play and the explanation of the rules is terrible as its translated to english. Please can you do a runthrough of the game. Thanks.
you can add it to requests.rahdo.com :)
This game ticks everything i´ve ever wanted on a dark fantasy game. Instaback!!
One problem I see is with the replayability. Maybe I misunderstood but I was watching a different video and they showed paper that you had to mark to show when you was affected by something. Is it truly possible to play the campaign more than once without issue?
shouldn't be a problem. the game comes with a lot of those pages, and you can always download more if you need them, or laminate ones they sent
Oh, I wish you could go back to the white background... I can barely see anything in this vast blackness ;)
well, this game is particuarily dark :)
Why would "dark and grim" be considered a con when choosing a game? I dont understand this unless you re wanting to play it with your 5 year old son/daughter. That actually provides so much immersion in a world where you kill people to survive and loot from.
you might not have heard this before, but different people like different things, and there's nothing wrong with that
@@rahdoExactly my point. A "con" in my understanding is a disadvantage the game has when compared to a certain standard. Being "Dark and gritty" is a characteristic relative to the theme in this case. That s the equivalent to criticising a game for being a dungeon crawler or a puzzle, etc. So your self righteous reply doesnt make sense.
Leave the schooling to your children and acolytes. Next time i wont comment as if you were intelligent.
@RogueNinja wow, you seem to be a thoroughly unpleasant and immature person. how unfortunate, i didn't think that was the case from your previous posts on the channel...
@@rahdo yes of course, says the guy who insults other people s intelligence with arrogant remarks. Get over yourself. Yes I m unpleasant but honest and there s nothing wrong with that ;)
@@rogueninja185 actually, knowingly and purposefully being unpleasant to others... there is something wrong with that.
Wow, your ten second comment about the "grim" setting and an aside about so-called chain mail bikinis has set off a firestorm of negativity in the KS forum. Not sure why people can't take your advice and pass on a game if it doesn't agree with their tastes or sensibilities.
I can agree with you, but I also cannot miss the fact that one of the very first things you notice when looking at the Kickstarter preview of this game is a pin-up picture of a nearly nude woman who looks as if she is posing for a Playboy magazine and not preparing to leave on a grim adventure. It's really not a reason for a slew of negativity, but it does kinda communicate that the game is aimed at prepubescent males who like oogling pretty fantasy chicks and not people who want deep, engaging gameplay experience.
Nobody was raging about the sexual content of this game.
The negativity wasn't coming from the ones who were simply requesting for transparency and politely expressing their disappointment at their surprise.
They weren't demanding things change to conform THEIR whims.
NO ONE wanted censorship.
Several said it's simply not the game for them and will move on. Others that it was not great, but they'll look past it.
The negativity (then) was coming from some of the other side.
ah well. it's a shame that the 'firestorm' is all from the 'defenders' of the game being rude, dismissive and insulting, while those who have concerns they'd like to express are generally polite and civil. it's funny how it always seems to turn out this way... but that's just the internet, bringing out the worst in people i suppose. gotta take the bad with the good...
@@dianarivera4307 well said, and entirely spot on! :)
Really Rahdo? I find it odd that those with so many issues with the game are backing it nevertheless, yet pestering the designers/company to no end to make changes that the majority of backers are not asking for. If you don't like a game (for any reason!) then move on and back or buy one of the myriad of other games available to you. There are games for all tastes. I like games about tea. Outrageous, I know, but that's just me.
Loooooooooooong time no see man . I miss your videos
been sick. getting better now
Combat feels convoluted and game rules non-intuitive. I have backed but I'll do more observations and analysis... I may just drop out.
coop only. :(
I don't understand... why does rape cross the line with Jen but not murder? They both seem like pretty horrendous crimes.
everyone has different lines, nothing wrong with that. i suspect you'd find a LOT of people besides jen share that discomfort.
which is why i mentioned it, because it's not something you often see in boardgames, and didn't want anyone to be unnecessarily surprised, especially folks who might plan to play the game with their kids.
wow... fulfillmend in MAY 2020... and 36$ shipment... the boardgames are getting ridiculus these days :D
Atleast they are honest Horizon Zero Dawn pulled a fast one on the shipping going from a posted 15$ to 45$ during pledge manager for the BASE pledge.
No, if you pay 36$, you get the Core game in August 2019. For May 2020, you should only pay $23.
@@larrye but the complete fulfillment will be finished in MAI 2020... ;)
Huh... a grim and dark fantasy world that has some dark real events that happen all the time in our world and people are super weird about it? Rape or other kinds of sexual assault can be a powerful narrative tool. Y'all have no problems lobbing a dudes head clean off his shoulders or burn some guy alive with magic but assault crosses that line... right...
It doesn't seem glorified or overly gratuitous. It fits the setting and that's all that really matters.
I just think it sounds weird to hear Rahdo with his overly enthusiastic voice talk about it.
different people are looking for different things in their entertainment, nothing wrong with that.
different people have different personal lines.
They have a right to them and to know if a game crosses that threshold.
I don't get the complaining about people politely expressing ONE dislike for a game.
I'm with Jen here. I understand that the game is grim and dark, but also feel that the rape story is unnecessary and is just put there for the sake of the shock effect. It could potentially ruin an otherwise good/fun gamenight.
Did you play the game?
Mmm. I disagree. But mostly because of taste. I prefer shocking and provocative, dark content. But I come from pen-and-paper and video gaming, so naturally tabletop would not have that.
The creators posted the actual text from the event in question; it's honestly nowhere near as bad as everyone is making out.....completly blown out of proportion
Sounds absolutely dreadful. I'm with Jen. What a horrible place to spend my play time. Ick.
Agreed.
To each their own. Go play santorini.
I think it's amazing. It's really not for everyone.