Fixing Hungarian Grand Prix circuit
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2022
- One of the things that make Formula 1 so special are the circuits. But some of them can't deliver constantly good races. One of the least loved circuits is Hungaroring, home of the Hungarian Formula 1 Grand Prix. In this video, I put on the drawing board some ideas I've had to change the track layout to improve racing. I had fun redesigning this track and I hope you enjoy it too. If you did, leave a comment and subscribe for more Fun With Tracks!
[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungaroring - Спорт
Several issues: 1) your new turn 4/5 is a fast kink leading into a tighter turn the opposite way. Although this is not entirely uncommon, it is a safety hazard if cars leave the track at the kink and come across the track at a T-bone angle.
2) you've gotten rid of some of a sequence of fast, challenging corners (the 8/9/10/11 complex) and replaced it with a flat-out straight. This might be good for overtaking but it makes a less interesting layout.
3) Your chicane bypass option only works safety-wise if you have a barrier on the outside. You cannot have the chicane runoff on the outside of a kink because the tyre wall would be 90 degrees to the track. Temporary barriers are possible, however it's very unlikely that if you offered two layouts, more than one of them would ever ever get used.
4) I fundamentally disagree with the idea that the Hungaroring is a bad track. It's a technical, driver's circuit with lots of interesting challenging turns, and its tightness has made it a unique challenge over the years. By reducing circuit improvements to "making overtaking better", you're just promoting cookie cutter circuits. F1's never had a problem with tracks that are hard to overtake on (other than Monaco), it's always been a problem with cars that can't overtake, and subsequent dull circuits that are created in response to the latest theory of what a good way to promote overtaking is. There's also the fundamental point that circuits should be designed for more than just F1.
5) There is no point in having 16 different layouts. It is very likely that only 1 layout will ever be used and the rest of the tarmac will decay.
On the other hand, I think the circuit you've presented is ultimately a good one, despite the problems I've presented that might make some of the changes unviable or unwise in my view, and my issues with the underlying philosophy. I do especially like the tightening, technical right-left you created at the end of your new back straight. That's a good corner, with hints of Rivage and the no-name corner at Spa (but, importantly, very much its own corner, not a carbon copy of anything).
Thank you for this excellent review :)
dude this is such a nice constructive reply
just wanted to give you a shout out cause you really made excellent points while showing understanding for what was being attempted
"Yes Tilke, you're sacked we've found a better replacement" 😉
:D
Mate, I am a big fan of your work…
Your track editing, video editing, really hits the spot…
Would love to see you attempting street circuits (i.e. revamping long beach or sochi, I’ve had multiple tries, and the layouts can get pretty crazy)
Thank you, you made my day :D I'm happy you liked it!
Street circuits are more complicated to change as there are many more restrictions. What would you change in Long Beach circuit?
@@funwithsometracks A lot really…
There is so much potential of the parks and roundabouts and overpasses around the track…
I got another idea for creating an oval circuit in Hungaroring, which connects from turn 2, to penultimate corner. There also will be an oval turn 1 at the same time.
Move the 6-7 chicane earlier so u have a curved braking zone and a long straight
I like your ideas, though I do feel you've gotten rid of the twisty nature of the circuit. The section between the end of the back straight you created and where it rejoins the current layout I think could be re-done in to a twisty section to keep the Hungaroring feel.
I like the re design but part of the reason Hungaroring is the way it is, is because of the forest in the middle being protected land meaning they can’t build on it
Thanks for sharing :)
Fair to say, Google elevation data is useless in this case but in reality, the turn 8-10 section has a huge drop on the inside, there is actually a 1,5m diameter tunnel between T9-10. Same with the inside of turn 11, the drop would be insane. There were talks about extending the track to fields on the west about 10 years ago, but all we got is a resurfacing in 2016 and some paddock moddifications this year. Also the pit building is promised to be rebuilt each year.
Great works.
But I don't agree with all of your proposals
0:39 Why do you destroy the faster turn of the entire race track ?
I didn't destroy the turn, it's still there :)
If you fasten 4, but keep a normal radius 5 there still wont be overtaking. Make 5much sharper like the hairpin at Hockenheim, but with a wide entry. Then you will see way more lunges.
Good job but you certeanly had to do something with the last sector too, I think turn 4 should stay where it is, but the back straight can solve hungaroring overtaking problems
Love the vids. I hope that you will get around to Paul Ricard. I have done a few redesigns myself that I could send your way if you need some inspiration
Thanks! I will redesign Paul Ricard soon :)
So: I loved the turn 4's idea and I agree with removing the Chicane, but after that I wouldn't change anything from the nowday's track. I would choose this configuration just for the overtakes in turn 5 and after that they could also attack in turn 7, then the track is already tricky and I love it.
I actually love the new adjustments, very reasonable. The smoothest course wouldn't probably suit a F1 race but would make it in case of the sprint event (see Bahrain thingy). I would buy that.
ESTENBA OGONE BE WINNING THIS ONE‼️‼️‼️‼️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Another suggestion. For more variability. Reactivate the old 4-5-6 chicane from 86-88. That can also provides the transition between slow and fast track configuration.
You could also have a straight line going from turn 9 directly to that straight in your turn eleven mod complex.
The best way to promote overtaking is to have 2 or more consecutive corners that turn the same way. Get the nose up the inside in the first turn, stay alongside on the straight in between and the get the overtake completed in the 2nd corner. Love your work though
I like the current layout 😅
Great video, which programme are you using to do these changes? Would also be really interesting to see this modded into Assetto Corsa or something like that
SketchUp. I would love it :)
I would just remove the hairpin at the end and just extend the straigjt into the last corner which should allow for a higher entry speed onto the straight and decrease the load on the tyres for better racing. Otherwise its perfect
Fun fact.. The first Humgarian GP was in the centre of Budapest in the Népliget Park
apparently tracks nowadays cant have any flow....
the challenge of turn 4 and the whole s section got ruined
In order to create better racing.
@Racing Turtle the current layout would still have better racing and is kuch more enjoyably to drive
@@SnakezF1 Well that's just like, your opinion man.
@@racingturtle7977 maybe make the cars smaller and not changing awesome and enjoyable tracks is a better option. Formula E with tiny cars had 150+ overtakes in Monaco just a few weeks ago just saying
the one without the chicane bc im not a fan of it
Thanks for sharing your opinion :)
Good :3
Could you fix Miami after it's recent race? They have good overtaking areas, but something is missing in this track that needs improving. IDK what it is.
Smaller cars...?
I don't know how could fix it! The track has 3 braking zones where overtaking can happen.
The problem of modern F1 is the cars, not the traditional tracks, but it's gaslighting people into thinking otherwise. It's all marketing really.
Watching other racing series too has been very eye opening. They race so much better and more naturally, not reliant on boring straights into massive braking zones and "push button for free overtake" DRS
I think this is the best fixed track!
Gives me Redbull Ring vibes
I feel like you could make turn 5 a heavy breaking zone and a sharper slow speed right hand corner because of how you made turn 4 more of a straight. A straighter turn 4 means more speed carried into turn 5. Picture it as being similar to Turn 2 and 3 at Austria.
Nice idea!
Estimated lap time: 1'05" without the chicane (that would be a lot faster).
Maybe to have a longer lap the last layout would have the Maggots-Beckets-Chapel in turns 8 to 10
I like short laps :)
Extend straight between 4-5 and 5-6 make 5 sharper hairpin and leave the old layout of 5. Would be very good for F1 and MotoGP
I think your favorite track is: AVUS Berlin (1926 and 1959)
greetings from Hungary :)
F1 is not just about overtaking. The track is amazing.
what program are you using to do this?
SketchUp
Can you make a video fixing Paul Ricard or Hermanos Rodríguez?
I will. These tracks really need some changes!
Paul Ricard is hopeless
Cool video and idea! But there's one glaring defect that shows your difference to a 'real' track designer: blatant disregard of safety issues. The new situations around the old turns 5 and 11 is basically close to top speed racing, ending in a runoff area of about 20 meters into a perpendicular wall. These layouts would never pass safety demands, which is actually something that has a huge influence on modern track design.
Track designers really do know what makes good racing, but it's not always possible. The number one way to encourage overtakes is long straights with sharp corners at the end, but that is also always the most dangerous situation safety wise not to mention the included design challenges (i.e. having to design safety runoffs, pushing back spectator stands, i.e. actually having to redesign the facilities around the track etc. etc.).
Thanks for your comment :)
Look at the turn 1 run-off length between the turn-in point and the barriers: just 60m! They had to put up a massive tyre barrier.
The current turn 5 has 100m between the turn-in point and the barriers. For current turn 11 is 105m. Adding more Tecpro barriers could be enough for these turns, as in the turn 1 example.
I think that the turn 4 run-off area must be redesigned, my bad :)
I guess that we will wait for the safety level verification performed by an FIA inspector :D
@@funwithsometracks Reading back my comment I sound like a bit of a negative nancy, apologies for that. I genuinely think these redesign videos are cool and props for the effort you have put into them. Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I am indeed definitely not an expert :P
I think this would just lend itself to get the field even more strung out. I don't think this layout would have the desired effect.
can you fixed the mandalika circuit for extended version?
Maybe :)
Are you using Fusion 360 to draw this?
SketchUp :)
I think the best layout is the original but with no chicane
What game or app is this
SketchUp
what software do you use?
Sketchup :)
@@funwithsometracks thanks man! really appreciate your videos ;)
In wich site can I do this tracks edits?
SketchUp
@@funwithsometracks Thanks bro👍🍷
I dont know man. I think turn 2-3, the Mansell (unofficial name of the turn 4) and the turn 8-11 combination with the very best Alesi (unofficial name of turn 11) is the best part of the track and you ruin it just to creat two big straight with overtake spot.
The drivers can like it because of the challenge it has. Yeah, its boring to watch, but there were some good overtake and good wheel to wheel fight in the past few races. For example 2021 - Fernando defending against Lewis. If that day track would be Spa or Silverstone, there would not be any chance to defend for Alonso. And let's face it if its a dry day, any track can produce a super boring race - like baku some week ago - I slept on it...on a baku race...where there are the walls...the overtake spots...and it was still boring
What need to change on my opinion? Nothing.
The reason is simple: the track is in a small valley and there is no room to do a reasonable change in the layout.
There are some place between turn 3 and 6 on the west-nothwest side of the track (the little forest, the helicopter landing places and the camping area), where you can try to figure out something. Or the last 3 corner (thats boring - i think), but next to the last corners there is no room on the outside of the track because of the hill from turn 6 to turn 14.
Anyway, you have nice concepts with those other tracks. I hope i will see a video with my tips and you will figure out a layout in the mentioned area.
Here is a hungarian article from more than 10 year ago. The leaders of the track also didnt want to change the iconic, fast and challenging turns, so if the works had started, then expansion would have taken place there. razoko.blog.hu/2012/11/12/forma-1_36_magyar_nagydij - i think you can translate it with the browser if you are interested. Now has a very big infrastructure update on the track, so its in better quality than the article describes it.
Have a good day ;)
So nice, thanks for sharing!
I kept all the current turns as they are and drew some ideas to create more track configurations inside the circuit area. Just my 2 cents :)
This is moto gp track
🎉
I don't like the way you approach this redesign, the way you made it, this track is now boring in quali, that isnt the problem if the redesign fixes an existing problem in the race but 2021 and 2022 races have shown that overtaking isnt an issue, I personally think Hungaroring is the most perfect F1 track there is at the moment where you get that perfect mix of action in sector 1 with a fast technical section in S2 and a bit of a slower section in S3, your redesign adds a lot of dead flat out space where no driver can gain or lose time in qualifying and in race we'd see a lot of boring overtakes far before the braking zone. Also if we factor in Hungarian weather, that S2 gains even more because since it isnt uncommon for it to be pissing rain during or before the race so drivers have that extra challenge, making those zones flat out completely removes that
Thanks for sharing :)
@@funwithsometracks Thanks for the heart
but why "fix" something is perfect?
For fun, just some ideas :)
These changes can be realistically done in real life. The circuit isn’t bad but it would be much better and more appealing with these changes
I enjoy your work but this one is no for me. Hungary is a truly enjoyable circuit to drive and I’m afraid your mods remove most of the most challenging sections in pursuit of more overtaking. Personally I wound happily watch 90 minutes of these cars pushing the envelope through turns 8/9/10 without a sniff of a pass over a DRS assisted move at the end of your 600m back straight.
Thanks for sharing!
I hate the Hungaroring more than any other circuit on the F1 calendar. Literally anything someone would do to it would be an upgrade, in my opinion. But once again you've really made some major improvements. I've never understood why there are so many corners on the top end of the ridge section of the circuit. I love the number of alternative layouts your design allows for too. Great work, again! I'm subbed and look forward to more videos.
Nobody wants a dts and non f1-fan to express his opinions
@@ibrahimalatrash8008 Hi, Sebboy. Kill any infidels recently?
@@ibrahimalatrash8008 Then why are you here, muppeto?