Can The Most POWERFUL Racing Car Beat An 80s GROUP C?
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- 962 vs 917/30 at Le Mans without chicanes!
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The physics of some models may have been modified to replicate real-life performance as close as possible.
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Group C or 70s Can-Am? Which era do you prefer?
I love group c but driving that 917/30 in asetto corsa has made it one of my favorite race cars
Can-Am 7 days a week.
Can am
Can-am cars are a great spectacle in person but the series tended to be dominated by certain cars so Group C for me, mainly because of the level of competition.
They both have their plus and downsides. The 917 is just brute force, while the 962 is a refined racing machine. 0,76 seconds off while having literally half of the power? Count me in. But the 917 is the ultimate challenge on a twisty track like virginia...
The 917 could reach 400 Km/h. The 962 could reach 386 km/h, but both were gearbox limited.
sure kid, sure
Source: Trust me...
The 917 could certainly NOT pass 400kph. Peugeot did it in the 80s when aero was far more advanced and still struggled. The true top speed according to google is 239mph or 385KPH which sounds far more biblically accurate
@@michajanicki6860 thanks for the support!! Very helpful!...
@@aguiii_filmsI think the 400kph is the 917/30 as that has over double the hp than the 917k or 917LH
@@TU_Gaming Yeah I was talking specifically about the 917/30... There's simply no way its reaching 400kph with that aero
If you look at the lap times from Road America, possibly the only track left unchanged for the years they competed the Porsche was actually slower than the ground effects Can Am cars of the early 80's even though they had half the HP, even the WSC cars were faster. As powerful as the 917-30 was is was limited to a 4 speed gear box, primitive aero, brakes, tires, suspension and chassis.
There was no Can Am in the 80s. Can Am died in 1974
@@salahdehina9733 Can-Am was resurrected by the SCCA in 1977 out of the bones of F5000, it ran until 1987.
@@johnjones928 Right. Yes the 917/30 was held back by its tires and aero compared to later cars but I think its main drawback is the fact that its differential was permanently locked, making its handling tragic even compared to cars of its time, especially at slow turns. There was no five speed gearbox or open diff at the time that could take all of its power and torque.
@@salahdehina9733 It was actually Mark Donohue that started using a spool (locked diff) in the 917, He'd been using one in the Penske Ferrari and found it suited his driving style. The 917-10 and 30 both had LSD from the factory and Porsche hated that Donohue used a locked one (as did Ferrari) but they had to admit he made it work when their test drivers couldn't. He was faster with better tire wear than with LSD.
@@johnjones928 Huh. I'm talking out of my ass then
can-am doesnt look like 1600hp at all, group C with half the power and more downforce isnt that much slower on the straitghs. What may cause this?
18 or so years of effective automotive development, in short
Better tyres, better aero, better construction materials, more efficient power delivery, the list goes on. Though given the close results at the end, it's amazing seeing the Turbopanzer win despite the relative age!
aerodynamic quality id say. more streamlined shape = more top speed. isnt there like a 14-15 year gap between the two models? spyder is ancient now lol.
Only 1000 or so ponies in race trim plus drag.
All the above, plus can you imagine how much turbo lag there is pushing that kind of power in 1970?
956 had ground effects so way faster in corners and could use much more of its power. 917/30 had no ground effects, just a big, draggy wing and open cockpit, so not nearly as aero efficient or able to use all of the power it had. There was plenty to beat the big block Chevys it completed against in Can Am. Only ten years separated the two cars, 1973 and 1983.
love the spyder! an engineering marvel in the early 70s I have to say. to achieve that much power in a car back then is truly incredible! had a feeling it would take the line with all that power to accelerate with. awesome vid!
hard to say, but I'll take group C
I’d take both 🤷🏿
The 917/30 is definitely MUCH slower than the real one
Are u really driving in 1600hp trim?
Probably not, the qualifying trim can get like 257 MPH/415 KMH and 0-60 in 1.9s, the 917/30 would have dominated the whole lap
I will not ever understand why racing sims cannot get the trackside/third person engine notes correct. For the last quarter century the cars sound like they were designed and played on an old Casio keyboard. Why... SERIOUSLY WHY... can they NOT get this right to this day???
The outside sounds are way harder to get, it depends a lot of where the car is. (A car in the middle of the desert sounds completely different to that same car inside a tunnel) Some developers put mics on the exhaust, some put them outside...
@@THEWINDTUNNEL ok but decades of work have gone into the physics of racing sims yet the cars still sound modulated and, well, goofy. Some of us have been to an actual race but we've all watched it on tv. Sim cars don't sound like real cars on tv or at the track.
Thanks for the reply man 👍🏻
to make engine sounds you need an audio source.
Either u find the car, and have it recorded on a full day session and ask your audio engineers/game devs to make the sound given the possibilities of the game engine. That's what sound modders do in Assetto Corsa either from youtube videos or paid recordings, and some are really not great at designing sounds in FMOD
The external is quite tricky to do, and exhaust sound is very scarce to have, usually you can have fly by videos and that's it.
The alternative to that is to use some audio and have it passed through AI models or make granular synthesis stuff. Will sound MUCH more artificial but you can have a 80% fidelity but better smoothness overall if your lacking a lot of samples. Very demanding and you need a specialist.
In Vanilla AC, the 917/30 sounds COMPLETELY off (interior, exterior) the 962 is let's say 80% correct external and 60% correct internal.
I do run a custom 962 soundmod that was never released, will probably be, but it's only for the interior, it's like 90-95% close to the real inboard sound. i never play exterior (anyway it's muted) and the car is only for my own pleasure of solo inboard driving / training.
But long story short, here is why it's hard, you NEED the car for an accurate sound, and let me tell you, you can be a billionaire, if you ask some private racing clubs or racecar owners and say "hey i want to have your car for a day for whatever" they will look down on u and tell u "lol u are no one, fuck off" (they are probably also rich btw, coz these gems cost millions) and tell u to go back play iRacing. You can some sort of other way around like game studios having super rare supercars / racecars but ruining the audio that was recorded for them using their post-process SFX, just like Gran Turismo does, or worse, forza devs who cannot make any sound accurate without recycling old garbage eventhough they have the money or skills to have the god damn car recorded and implemented well in a working audio engine.
Here is why. more or less.
@@THEWINDTUNNEL it's absolutely not hard to get like technologically speaking, you can even unmix part of sounds like intake, turbo, blow off valve, etc... it's super easy for a good sound engineer
the real problem is to have the car rented and your team allowed to record the sound for a day or two, because cars are either super rare or kept private like holy sacred items that none should dare thinking touching lol
@@zoobi27 hey thanks for the detailed explanation man! I guess it always puzzled me how they worked so hard to get the driving physics but didn't come up with sound that came close to duplicating the visceral angry notes of real racing engines. Especially when the engine sounds are iconic such as with the Formula One V10 era.
It depends on what the end goal is. It's like comparing an apple to an orange. Porsche 917/30 campaigned by Penske Organization was designed for Can Am racing whereas Porsche 962 was conceived to compete in endurance racing. This one lap of computer simulation overlay shown with the backdrop of Le Mans doesn't really tell the whole story in my opinion. It all comes down to reliability, durability, and robustness of the engines in each car. Remember, the twin-turbocharged air-cooled Flat-12 wasn't built to last 24 hrs. of racing environment. I would guess that, at the end of the day, Porsche 962 would edge out Porsche 917/30 by default. Just my two cents.
Closer than i though
I think the porche will win
Give us late 90s Indy car vs late 90s F1 car please!
Away we go and the 962 got ahead! But 917 Catch up! Well not really with the first 2 corners
1:00 The straight is here can the 917 catch the 962 yes he can!
2:06 Can the 962 take it back?
2:44 917 is running away from 962
3:33 A final few chicane and 917 takes the flag!
Open car sooo much drag!
Yet BMW and AUDI won with them. Driver change much easier.
And Porsche too
The 962 most likely has superior brakes.
So I'm not the only one with that weird screen-warping on the bottom line of the screen? 0:10
It only happens when looking back
Yeah me too it's because of pure
Don't think this comparison portraits the real scenario...it's fun to watch, but has many things i find almost unreal...in the more slower parts, the 956/962 gains to little advantage to what it would in real life, and that would make all the diference in the end. The Group C would win in almost all the conditions, that would be the REAL truth! But i understand the purpose of the video, and i like to watch them in your channel. Thanks
12 years of engineering in such an early era of motorsport showing how peak power isn't all your power and not to be threatened by 1600hp.
The braking in the group c made up for the power gap
What simulator are you using? Amazing comparison btw❤
Assetto Corsa
@@THEWINDTUNNEL Thanks for your answer! 😊 and you drive for the video with some mate or both cars are controlled by IA ?
The Porsche 917/30 was not "the most powerful racing car ever made". Dragsters are racing cars too.
I’m not quite sure if that was a really close race, but it sure looked like it.
I would end up killing myself driving the dream (a 917K, actually), but until the last few seconds I would be in race car heaven. Then I would go to hell for destroying a classic. 😹
A Toyota TS050 with the engine of a 917 would be a machine of death, faster than a F1... (Even if the engine wouldn't fit probably)
Technological advancement made the 962 almost as fast as the 917 with half of its power!
Hell ya!
Could the Mercedes 2020 F1 beat a top Fuel dragster at Le Mans without chicanes?
On the Mulsanne straight alone, no.
Around the entire track, easily. Fact is I'm not eve sure the dragster would last a full lap. They just are designed to run at full power for a few seconds and slow down. Since they don't even use radiators they WILL overheat in longer runs. And then I haven't even mentioned how useless they would be in ANY corner. In fact I do not think they even can turn their front wheels enough.
Bizarre comparison.
That thing was air cooled??
917/30 is flat 12 cylinder right?
962C is flat 6 cylinder 🤔
Both use turbos.
Anyways the Group C car has ground effect (meaning it's faster in any corner) superior tires, suspension and is a monocoque chassis. From a technical point of view it's like the era of the last piston engined propeller planes vs early jets.
Who counts cylinders btw? Only kids. A more telling factor is *displacement* .
Nah… I bet the 917 would be much slower in corners, it was not a ground effect car. Also the breaks are way weaker
You should do the Prototype kings of the early 90s. The Peugot 905 and the Gurney Eagle MK3
Day 2 of asking lmh vs gt500 at lemans
Look, we all know the bestest 80s le mans car was the jaguar xjr9..... which i owned in scalextric form. Great figure of 8 track!
Masterpiece.
The power of Sunoco Porsche Audi 917/30
Man What a beast of a Porsche can am car
Turbo lag. How did you factor that?
Just look at the start, the 917 isn't going the first 2 secs, other than that it's pretty manageable
Xd Spyder only 4 gears
Badass!
that canam turbo man.
Take out that long ass back stretch, and we'll have a total different story.
Yeah but that’s literally the track my guy.
Most powerful racing car? Not Top Fuel?
We only count circuit racecars.
You just mentioned an atomic bomb in a contest with the most powerful handguns. Apples and oranges.
Gracias genial