Ep. 066 - One in the Chamber?
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2023
- On this episode, Seth is joined by Judd Jarzynka and the MIL/LE Product Manager, Scott Javins. The guys discuss when they feel it is appropriate to carry a firearm with a round in the chamber. The discussion starts with personal defense considerations and evolves into different hunting scenarios. The choice to keep a round in the chamber is nuanced but ultimately comes down to the users training and comfortability. We hope you learn something and enjoy the show.
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One of the best educational podcast I've listened to. As a FBI certified firearms instructor for my municipality I agree or at the least understand where each scenario was discussed and results in differences. There is no one right answer. Train to live and live to train.
I keep all five chambers on my revolver loaded at ALL times. Been carrying loaded since 1996 for CCW and 1990 for hunting. I’ve got 30 years experience in security, LE, and I now work in national security. When I was a sheriff’s deputy department regs required the pipe to be loaded on duty.
I %100 agree with your statements about getting more training if you’re not comfortable carrying 1 in the chamber for personal defense. But I do have to say if you are carrying for personal defense you should have 1 in the chamber. If you don’t like that idea get comfortable through whatever means necessary. In a self defense shooting you have very limited time as the guest speaker said in the drills they ran in their classes. Most people thought they would work through the steps faster and not make mistakes. Adding having to rack the slide in the steps is one more point of failure that could cost you your life.
One thing I wish you would have talked about was personal defense in the woods. Black bear, grizzly bears, Agressive moose, mountain lions. As we continue to develop land in our wild areas we are going to see more of these animals displaced and encounters will increase.
Following along those lines when I’m Hunting having one In The chamber for me is also about where I’m at? If I’m in bear habitat I have one in the chamber for sure. Bear spray has been shown to be very effective in the right conditions, but with hunting I’m generally walking into the wind to keep my sent controlled. Bear spray can become less effective if it’s windy. (Plus let’s be honest I have a bear spray can but I have never used it…. I would be much more comfortable in a stressful situation using my gun than the bear spray due to familiarity) that’s my biggest problem with bear spray is we preach muscle memory and practice for self dense then we are asked to use a can of spray that we have never used in our life.
I've always found the best bear spray is hardcast lead or solid copper.
to 'blunt up' what Scott said, if you don't feel comfortable with one in the chamber, you are not ready for EDC. I say that based on the fact that every person that has ever told me they didn't feel comfortable with a chambered round had shot less handgun rounds in their lives than I do on a given weekend. It screams, "I don't really know my gun, and I'm not sure I can draw it without shooting myself." Not a good place to be with an adrenaline dump. Oh, and I'd love some .355 124 gr flexlock and .429 225 gr FTX to load! (inherited a Ruger Model 10, and it has a tubular magazine)
Great things to think about. Generally I am an AR-10 or Winchester 88 both .308. For elk and deer in northern colorado 3rd rifle season. Usually chamber a round as soon as I get off the ATV or out of Pickup and begin the slow walk to a blind. If terrain gets rough or to much down timber to go over I unload as I won’t be quiet getting thru it any way.
As far as carry is concerned, I’ve got a full framed 1911 and I always carry loaded with the hammer dropped.
When hunting dove in south Texas, my O/U is loaded and on safe the second I get out of the truck. I will also carry it with me loaded and on safe to retrieve birds.
Nearly all the deer hunting ive done in Texas is out of either a box blind or tree stand. My Winchester M70 with its 18oz trigger is absolutely NEVER loaded until I’m in said blind.
Just the way ive been taught and have always done it.
This is a great post. I think we all need to know our tools better.
A 1911, unless it has a firing pin block is more risky hammer lowered on a live round than cocked & locked!
A M70 safety lifts the cocking piece off the trigger when on safe. A 2oz or 100oz trigger are equally safe when safety engaged.
Not sure on the o/u…I need more study too!
For personal defense, anything is usually better than nothing. You should work towards carrying with the chamber loaded as discussed. You may end up holding someone off while drawing your gun. You may end up defending someone else being violently attacked in a parking lot, gas station, or street by your home. Which obviously gives you more time, so bring what you can. Mechanical safeties are nice, it may make you more comfortable but, in an oh shit senerio, it's an extra step, practice lots.
Hunting, if it's legal shooting hours, I have a shell in the chamber. I don't get out 60 days a year and need to capitalize on every opportunity the good Lord provides. When I bring a firearm up, it goes to fire. When I bring it down, it goes on safe. I've been practicing that since I was a kid, and it is the single most important habit to have. Nothing gives me a worse impression of someone than if they have to be told to put their firearm on safe. When I teach firearms safety, I like to have the kids in a line parallel to a building. Check that all firearms are empty. On the command up, they point their firearm at the ridge line of the building and put the safety to fire. On the command down, they put the safety on and bring the firearm down. It can be done inside by aiming where the ceiling meets the wall. It can not be practiced too much. The current trap shooting protocol teaches to leave the firearm on fire as the chambers are open when moving. Because they lose the point if the clay goes and their on safe. The problem is, this habit is going to carry over to the field when they go bird hunting and someone is going to get shot because this most important habit is not ingrained! They must learn to go to fire only when they raise the firearm and have determined it's safe to shoot. Then, returning to safe every time they lower the firearm. Period.
One thing all of the experts miss is proper holstering. If I draw, then re-holster, I remove the holster, then place the firearm in the holster while I have full visual control. I do not just blindly shove the firearm into the mounted holster. After the firearm is Properly in the holster I then remount the holster to my carry position. No chance to introduce some foreign object into the trigger area.
Interesting method. Not very practical if unholstering and reholstering during a self defense situation…
@@nksmfamjp7801 I am 100% not trying to be an a$$hole here… why would you reholster during a self defense situation? If my gun is drawn in that situation it is staying out until the situation lends itself to either reholstering in the way the OP stated, or a LE is present and taking the firearm away from me because they have control of the situation.
I have concealed carrier for 10 years now and the only time am concerned about a negligent discharge is when the gun is being slide into the holster so having 100% visual is imperative for my comfort level.
I will say thankfully I have never drawn my firearm in a defensive manner and being so I have never been In the situation that would require what your comment speaks to.
@@troyackerman2006 I get it. I appreciate your respect. When the police come or you need to make a 2 handed move like driving, I think you will appreciate being able to reholster properly. After drawing my CCW, I can imagine leaving the scene and reaching out to police from the safety of my vehicle. I think we imagine after shots fired or not fired that the scene settles down until police come. I can imagine firing and then not wanting to fire because I have opportunity to escape. I don’t carry to shoot, I carry to facilitate escaping and staying alive. Just a possible example.
@@nksmfamjp7801 Yes I agree that carrying to give ones self a way to escape is the goal. I’m still in the mind set that with a major adrenaline dump trying to reholster is asking for problems. I understand that at some point it would always be necessary but I will still try to avoid at any cost.
Another great podcast, thanks guys. You mentioned why having a round in the chamber of your handgun could make a critical difference when a bad guy launches a sudden attack. A charging aggressive or defensive grizzly bear can close a far greater distance in much less time. This is why I carry my rifle, regardless of action, with the chamber loaded while hunting big game in bear country.
Great podcast. It was a little departure from what I have anticipated from Hornady, but when, where, any why you carry with a round in the chamber certainly fit into the great information you guys put out.
Concealed Carry: I don't often concealed carry mostly because I live in a rural, primarily agricultural county in eastern NC, so there isn't much need. However, when I carry, it is with one round in the chamber. My carry handgun is a Glock with out an external safety, but following the enhanced four basic rules, I feel completely comfortable with a round in the chamber.
Hunting: My primary deer rifle is an older Remington 700 ADL. If I'm walking to a stand, which usually occurs well before daylight, I have rounds in the magazine, but nothing in the chamber. If I'm still hunting and am confident that I'm alone, I'll hunt with a round in the chamber. If I'm hunting with a Winchester 94, I follow the same guidelines as if I'm hunting with my 700. I don't see any reason to have a round in the chamber is I'm walking to the stand well before shooting light.
Will Martin
Oriental, NC
Thank you for the comment!
Carry double action only, or double action first shot, pistol, safety-less or with the safety off.
Another great episode. I hunt in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains in Alberta. I rack one in the chamber as soon as I am set up to start walking in for the hunt. Never know what predator is lurking around the woods (Grizzly bear, Mountain lion, Wolf, Black bear (not usually a threat but...) ) Plus, I usually have my 7 year old daughter with me as she loves hunting with me so I am extra cautious and always ready.
Keep up the good work guys. I Enjoy all the podcasts
Thanks for watching!
Massad Ayoob just did a video on the Wilson Combat UA-cam channel on the subject for those who may want more information on the subject.
South Africa, Karoo. (very open country with some mountains, and some thorn Bush). 200 - 300 meter shots. 6.5 CM and 308win. From Springbuck to Eland with Kudu and Gemsbuck in between.
Nothing in the Chamber. Unless you know the animal is right on the other side of a bush (rarely happens). Sometimes I don't even have rounds in the magazine, theres enough time to single load them, from the little loops in the cheek riser.
I always carry one in the chamber for hunting but I'm in Georgia and hunt in some thick stuff and you don't have time rack a round In the chamber if you bumb a deer! However if I take my kids with me I don't chamber one until we are to our spot ofcourse my son is 6 and my daughter is 8 and I fill teaching them safety is more important until they learn more as they get older.
Semper Fi
I don't carry very much. I shoot often, tho. When I do carry, I don't have one in the chamber. I also am from rural NE. In my 30+ years and all my travels, I haven't seen a situation that I would need to. While upland hunting, I have one ready to go. Deer hunting, once I get to my stand, I have one ready to go. Squirrel hunting with a lever gun I don't, but with a bolt gun I do.
Great podcast topic and a good expert to bring in. When it comes to tactical or carry, one in the chamber is the rule, having to "rack the slide" on the draw is about the same as carrying a small club since you will need that pistol to fire when you need it, not after preparation.
Now when it comes to hunting I think Judd's mentality isn't bad, but it is also VERY situation dependent and if there is one in the chamber you should be always unloading it if you are having to negotiate obstacles like a fence or really tough terrain. Ask a Hunter Ed instructor we always preach unloaded until ready to "hunt" game, and always unload and clear at obstacles, these courses are typically designed for new hunters and youth hunters, but I realize that isn't always convenient nor practical for all hunting methods and experience levels. But generally if you can be safe carry how you want and are comfortable with when hunting, as long as your safe.
Something to think of is you guys in Nebraska don't have to worry about aggressive animals as much as some folks who live in Grizzly, hog, wolf, or even mountain lion territory, and having one loaded in the chamber could be the difference between life and death if one of those aggressive predators decide your on the menu. This could be before and during your "hunt" and after the game hits the ground. I personally have gutted a cow elk in the fog by myself only to find out there were a couple of Mexican Grey Wolves watching me the whole time from a Juniper tree a few hundred feet away when I was done. Thankfully they stayed away, but it wouldn't have been unthinkable for a injured or malnourished wolf to push the issue and try to attack and push me off the meal. Often here where I live the most dangerous animal is the injured, malnourished, and or young yearling bear or mountain lion, typically one that has been kicked out by mom and is desperate and there is typically one or two attacks a year here in AZ from them. (often as they enter suburban area's looking for food, but if your elbow deep in elk guts that is an easy meal as well!)
Also some of us live and hunt in area's where it could be possible that we have not just hostile animals but criminal activity to worry about in addition to our prey, I for one often hunt near the southern border where we often get watch Narco's hauling dope northward from our glassing points. Most of the times they are helpful bumping deer that I can then go chase, however the chance always exists that we stumble onto one unexpectedly at short range and/or that they decide they want a new rifle to take home or to see if I have some extra cash they can claim. These Narco's often are dressed in camo, travel in groups with at least one who will carry an AR or AK and have been known to shoot at hikers, hunters, and others who they thought was a threat to their operations. (typically thinking you are another narco looking to steal their product or they are sampling the wares.)
Thus not only am I always carrying a pistol of some sort when hunting here in AZ but also having a loaded and ready rifle is essential in those area's since the risk is greatly elevated compared to a cornfield in Nebraska. Typically I'm hunting with either an AR in 6.5 grendel, .450 bushmaster, or .300 blk depending on if I'm chasing Javalina or Cous Deer. I also will use bolt rifles for deer (mule or cous) and bolt and muzzleloaders for Elk in the higher terrains of AZ. I'm working up a AR-10 with 6.5 Creed and .308 uppers that I hope to build out for a 500+ yard cous rifle so I can have the added capacity if I happen to meet the aggressive Narco's down south but still have the power and range to take them at distances I often find myself shooting them at. I originally built the 6.5 Grendel upper for that use, but I'm not as happy with the legs on it as I thought I would be, by the time I hit 500 yards I'm getting close to that low expansion threshold so I've got where I only use it in the less open hills where distances are not likely to be as long, and instead use a .243 or something larger to get the extra couple of hundred yards that sometimes makes all the difference with those spooky lil grey ghosts.
You’re certainly dealing with a lot over there. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
I'm in very rural North Nevada. My EDC pistol is a Smith & Wesson M&P Sheild in 40S&W. I carry it in the right of center appendix. Spare magazines in left hand pants pocket with a NEOMAG. My Sheild is a Gen 1 so it has a safety. I carry round chambered safety on. My carry ammo is 165 critical defense. 3" barrel so I want the velocity and expansion. 99.9 percent of the time I'm dispatch road injured cattle ( I'm a state Brand Inspector)
Now on to hunting. Like you guy when bird hunting ( Chukar, Quail Grouse) I'm carrying a Beretta 1200. Chambered and safety on. Water foul I don't load my gun until I'm in the blind.
Big Game here is Antelope, Mule Deer and Elk. All is spot and stock. My Elk rifle is a Remington 700 in 300 RUM. As a rule magazine loaded but no round in the chambered until I'm a quarter mile from my animal. (Or where I believe my animal to be. ) my Antelope & Deer Rifle is a Ruger #1 in 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. I chamber it when again I'm a quarter mile. Coyotes I call from mid October to late January and chamber and safe both rifle and shotgun at the vehicle ( truck SxS atv snowmobile) AR15 and a 1201fp. Both are noisy to chamber on a stand. I have a half mile rule(minimum)from the vehicle to my call stand.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
Great video! In particular, thanks for explaining the difference between Critical Defense and Critical Duty. There are a lot of self-proclaimed "experts" out there who don't know Jack S, but getting an explanation from you, who actually represent Hornady, I know I'm getting the truth, and not some bone headed opinion.
Thanks for watching. We're glad we did that part as well!
PA,MD whitetails from 20-200 yards shots in woods and fields. One in chamber as soon as I'm 25 yards from my vehicle
Pa Hunter deer/bear, 50% stand and drives. Walking in the dark is empty gun. Setting up drives is empty chamber. Walking through cover alone driving/ on stand is chambered and safe gun handling.
I the northeast (Maine) the majority of deer hunting is still hunting and/or tracking. You are hunting as soon as you leave your vehicle and the pavement. One in the chamber is standard practice.
Southern mi whitetails chambered 450 in my bolt gun. From the time I leave the door to when I get back.
When hunting I have one in the chamber
Hunting mule Deer and elk
Do a mix of spot and stock and drives
In eastern Oregon
Never know when you might see a coyote is a part of it
Hornady is awesome. Love the reloading equipment. Ammo is great.
Thank you!
Live work and hunt central rockies.. Defensive pistol is always loaded, and never more than an arms reach away. Deer,elk,bear, or small game. Irregardless of platform chambered and generally in my hands. Hornady ammunition or bullets in everything but the glock 20. Have to go doubletap on that 😢.300black,5.56,7mm Remington magnum, 30/06. Wish list 6arc and 7prc
Been enjoying the podcast never imagined how much went into making great ammunition really interesting.
Thanks for watching 🙏
Absolutely it's nice to hear how passionate you all are gives me a great piece of mind out in the field. Only bought my first hunting rifle for my son 2 yrs ago 6.5 creedmoor and that shoots lights out planning on getting the 7prc for our second rifle.
If your rifle’s safety blocks the sear, it’s safe to have one in the chamber with the safety on.
Generally rifle safeties are lift off or lock up type. Lift off is like a m70 where the trigger can be pulled freely on safe, but must return home before taking off safe. A lock up type jams the sear into a cocking piece, striker or hammer. Some have a trigger safety. These block the trigger, but the rest of the mechanism may be more able to jarr off and fire. I worry every time I see a trigger safety until I really understand it.
I was waiting for loaded revolver vs Glock. They both fit needs but do cc users often need in reality. I feel like if you really need a lot of rounds you have enemies and idk
Hopefully, I never need to use it. But rather have it and not need It than the other way around.
1 in the Pipe, silliest discussion ever. you hit the point of if your not comfortable doing it then get more training before you start carrying! BUT the point of 1 in the Chamber.... why carry if you don't have 1 in the Chamber. Hey wait Mr. Bad Guy I'm not ready yet, let me rack 1 1st. this country has become a criminals playground. Our laws are becoming where bad guys get away scott free with committing a crime and even if they get caught they just get released. its time we make the playing field even and if bad guy wants to play stupid games then they need to win stupid prize!
Still better to carry without it chambered then to not carry at all, fastest way to gain that required comfort is to have it with you and no 2 hour training course is going to provide that. To gain that comfort it takes time, not someone else telling you that it’s safe.
Y'all should make a 338 prc cartridge
Lapua used science to make the 338lap. If you want something new get a 8.6creed
Rooster Cogburn said “A gun that’s cocked and unloaded ain’t good for nothin”
whats a Crick Bed?
Creek bed
A crick has old car parts in it. A creek doesn't.
@@hornady lol, interesting. I live in Florida and was always told it’s just how people said creek. Very interesting. If your not joking thanks for the correction
We're just joking. Midwestern humor for you on a Thursday.
@@hornady lol appreciate the laugh then cheers and thanks for the fun podcasts
Yes. If you can’t trust your system being ready to go don’t carry it. Duhh
The government model is designed to be carried with the hammer back and safety on. If you are too SCARED to carry as designed, please stop carrying.
Has never came up in a court case what type of ammo you were caring for self-defense. You just lost me
I love your shows guys but man, please figure out your audio issue. That whisping sound your tongue makes when speaking is horrendous. It always comes from whoever speaks through the two far mikes.