Tech Install: HEIDTS IRS for Fourth-Gen F-bodies
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2018
- GMEFI Magazine takes their project 2002 WS6 to HEIDTS Suspension Systems for a complete suspension overhaul, including their new IRS for '93-02 Camaro and Firebirds!
So check out the clip, and keep your eyes peeled for the FULL STORY in an upcoming installment at GM-EFI.com! Were some of your questions not answered here? Hang tight! - Авто та транспорт
Well done guys, super clean install. Kind of funny to see a 2002 T/A with rear wheel camber! That's not something you see everyday.
Would be more interesting if they showed the laptime before and after installation. Like increase of some Seconds, overzteer/understeer etc.
That was the plan. Unfortunately we were on a tight deadline and were blasted by rain for the next few days after the install. It wouldn't have been a big deal if we were local, but scheduling wouldn't allow it.
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I was dumb lost my account password. I love any tricks you can offer me!
@Ramon Jaxson instablaster ;)
@Enoch Benicio thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Enoch Benicio it worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thanks so much, you saved my ass !
I want a Firebird and this just makes me more more impatient lol. Such a good looking build!
Thank you!
I just bought one last month and I couldn't be happier!
Same here
Very nice I hope to do this to my T/A one day.
What an awesome video. I could have gone on watching for hours, it was so interessting seeing you guys install that.
That rear independent suspension setup is sick!
This is crazy for the amount of money for this kit you might as well buy another car with independent suspension
@C T so true you can lick up a junk one for peanuts
@@maldo72 Well it depends. This is gonna perform alot better. This isnt meant for someone as a daily driver.
@@gamesofcontent totally understand what you are saying still think these parts are way overpriced. I don't imagine they sell many of these setups. .. been in the fbody world for a long time and have never come across someone with one of these kits ... (most say they can't justify the price tag ..)
I’m going to agree with you 7k is a ton for a kit that is essentially metal a diff and breaks . Yeah engineering and shit but I mean come on 7 k is them taking advantage
@@harryfp1494 not saying its not quality but at the asking price cant see many buying this
Man that was a badass setup .
Awesome to see the install. Badass product!
Thank you!
Man, I wish this stuff was available when I hd my F-bodies years ago!
The amount of want I have after seeing this is insane. I don’t even autocross my 02 TA and I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed this!
It's an awesome setup!
I love the silver 2nd gen in the backround.
Beautiful work! 💯💯
Nice ss! Any mods done?
Love that car. Would've been cool to see before and after times around the track
Props to the camera man. Very nice video
Awesome!!! Would like to see more of this.
Oh, you will!
@@GMEFIMagazine still waiting!😏😆😆
so much waaaaant. what a quality looking product. 🚘🚀
I'm curious as to why they stuck with the Y-pipe instead of building an X, especially with the limited clearance under the diff.
+1
I know this video is 6 years old but hopefully that car eventually got the 6 speed manual that it deserves especially with such a nice suspension kit
This is what the world has been waiting for!
How much weight does this add or subtract from the car?
Guys would definitely sign up for all this cutting and welding but won’t do a trap door mod. Lmao
Anyone who would do all that work wouldn't dis respect himself doing a trap door mod
What is a trap door mod lol. Sorry not an f body guy so i dont know
@@swappedoutZ71 cut a hole in the floor above the sending unit area of your fuel tank so it is easier to get to if it fails or you want to swap it out for a upgraded one.
It depends. The guy in the video has owned that car since new, almost twenty years, and has installed 2 upgraded pumps in that time, and only because of different setups. You really don't go through fuel pumps THAT often to warrant a trap door. We've seen otherwise bone stock cars with them, and we could only imagine, that it started with a guy who had a failure in the middle of winter, didn't have a lift, didn't care about the car enough to second guess it, and just cut it open.
Since we'll be handling the elephant in the room that's the surface rusty floor pan this winter, we'll be pulling the axle back out, anyway. We're also doubling the car's power by way of a new engine. The trans is ready to go, too. Brakes will be upgraded as well. It'll be pretty sick. Stay tuned.
A damn shop cut a trap door in my car and I really was pissed off cause I had changed the pump twice and took less than 1hr each time dropping the tank. Anyone who cuts a trap door is a lazy pos.
Nice diff heater...
Otherwise, it's amazing!
Seems to be an expensive and extensive mod with no supporting data. It would be nice to get some track time data before and after. Design flaw with the exhaust, it will have to dump before the IRS rear axle to prevent crushing the intermediate pipe. Otherwise I'm certain it rides 2x better than stock!
Yeah... Seams like you would just be better off buying a used ZLI or CTS/ATS-V
Any comparisons on this yet? From stock to this new swap? Been trying to do this for years already
Very impressive. Wow.
We'll be performing a follow-up video with track times, driving impressions, etc., in the coming months. Stay tuned!
Love my 98 z28. I would do it if I had the extra money, but the cost of install would be high. They are cutting pieces and fabricating mounting points, etc.
Wow cool! Now what does something like that cost installed by them?
such a bad ass build man! really considering getting a firebird to keep my new gen stang company!
Should get one before the prices go up! It's only a matter of time
@@bhcamaro2002you were right. Prices are way tf up!!
@@Ballen1182 it's insane!
@@bhcamaro2002 haha yep. I sold my 98 trans am 6 years ago and regret it like a mf. Was lucky enough to find this 100k mile one-owner mint z28 for $13k a couple weeks ago. I don't like the color but i'm pretty happy about it 😄 it's great to join the 4th gen club again!
@@Ballen1182 haha can always paint it that's good though 😎👍
id love this for my 02 SS !!!
Well that's definitely permanent and when do you ever do a alignment at full drupe ??
The exhaust looks really low after the conversion...
I can’t decide between a sweet fourth gen and full suspension and chassis kit or just getting another 6th gen that’s already tightened up from the factory. I love the look of the fourth gens a lot more especially the early ones (I don’t like the catfish look) I want a 92’ with the 1LE package in polo green with BBS LM wheels with bronze centres and polished lip.
I know this is a racing setup, but I would want mine to be a cool fast daily driver lol
I’ll keep the solid axle... thanks
To each their own!
I have this car in black great condition want to have this same setup installed was wondering how much it’ll run me
Like to do this to my 3rd gen Firebird
Holy Rust Galore !
GM should of put an IRS in 4th get models from factory.
If it were anything like this, we'd have to agree! But we have a feeling it would have been more akin to what we saw in the GTO and V1.
was almost a thing www.gtasourcepage.com/91FirefoxTest.html
They did its called a Corvette.
It definitely would've taken away from the C5 back then. And brought the price point closer to the Vette too.
@@LiquidSSSnake I don't know the price of the Vett's back then, but when I was shopping for a TA in 1993 it was 26k for a fully loaded + leather manual. Then I bought a gorgeous 1995 TA in 2006 for $5,600 lol. They did NOT hold their value well before Pontiac closed shop.
Any video of this at the track after the swap? Interested on how much it helped. Also what was the weight after the swap?
Coming soon!
@@GMEFIMagazine link?
Awesome choice for your suspension setup. Is there an article on your website of project Phoenix. What's the setup on your tires and wheels.
Phoenix rides on 17x9.5 and 17x11 Corvette C4 GS/ZR1wheels and Toys R888 tires.
You can follow along with the updates on Project Phoenix HERE:
www.gm-efi.com/category/projects/phoenix/
GM EFI Magazine thanks a lot. I need to get mine measured. I want to have the most amount of meat possible under my wells. So I will have to get some wheels made. I'm pretty sure the ZR1 wheels have a specific offset.
can fit up to 315s all around on the 4th gen firebirds/trans ams magic wheel number for that seems to be 11 inch wide with et40 offset
@@dragus213 315x35's with the correct offset on 17" wheels "fit" but clearance is not perfect. First, not all tires are the same. Second, not each car is built the same even when stock. (Panhard rods, ride height, etc all matter). Third, the bumper jounce may need to be clearanced including the mounts - not a big problem in the in this IRS system since they are removed - but they may contact on one side at full extension (a phenomenon that is always followed by a heavy load on the tires shortly after and will blow a sidewall). For my set up (315x30x18 on all fours) rubbing was occasional under load and the BFH and lip work done to ensure no touching under lateral loads. Fit, yes, work for serious performance applications without supporting modifications, no, not recommended. Cutting a tire in a hard turn is not a good thing. I thought very long about this actual IRS system but the amount of cutting for fitment was just too much for me and it is a permanent commitment to the IRS system once done. Very cost effective parts wise though.
PS: They should have done something about those front wheel bearings while at it. Those are a bit of a weak point.
Holy shit. I’m just gonna 8.8 swap mine from a junk yard explore so it’ll hold 750hp. I’m good on all this for a 17 year old car. Slap some coil overs on the front and 4 link the rear.. done.
For someone who's "never satisfied," you're easily satisfied.
Very nice. How much for all that including labor? Just curious.
How did you hold the motor up when you dropped the front clip?
Anyone know the part number or name of the tool at 2:06 that is used to hold the engine up in the car?
Norbit2 motor support bar
vaper street thanks $60 on Ebay
Harbor freight had them for $49.99
Glad you asked that I was wondering there what they were doing with that.
Have a question does it retain the four-channel ABS and traction control to work on our car . is the sensor in the wheel bearing hub or is it externally mounted for the ringtone for the ABS sensor. If it's in the hub is it an off the shelf Corvette unit ? If so what year unit is it C5 C6 C7?
What did you have holding the engine in during the K Member swap
Strut brace
Hmmm what's the total cost of happiness? I got an lt1 that is need of some upgrades
I think they had to paint down there before installing the new parts to make a perfect job. I would do it.
Can someone explain why the 4th gen is such a small market compared to Mustangs and Civics?? 4th gens are faster and better in every way even compared to some of today's cars.
Because they pumped out WAY more Mustangs and Civics in the '90s than F-bodies.
So how were lap times improved? How much better at AX? How much heavier or lighter is this new setup? Can you fit 18x11 wheels on the rear?
That's for the comment -- we were pressed for time, the track got rained out and the baseline finished off our original master cylinder on the last run. Then engine had also developed a misfire that turned out to be a more serious than we had thought, so while the car is under the knife this winter, we'll be resolving those issues and hitting the track again. On the street, it was a night and day difference!
how'd they remove the existing K member while the engine was still in the car?
If I ever need to do a fuel pump on my gen 4 , I think I will just cut a hole in my floor to access it . All stuffed up in there behind the axle and exhaust , I can't see that being easy with no lift .
Interesting but I Was hoping for some info. How much weight does it add? What rearend does it use? What shocks are they using?
It uses a Currie 9-inch center housing, with optional gears for your taste/needs. The axles are sourced from The Driveshaft Shop, and are available in multiple strengths/horsepower levels. We went with the 800hp axles in ours. The coil-overs or Heidts own product. The rear brakes are based on C4 Corvette. It adds some weight (the exact amount escapes us at the moment), but it's where you would want it, anyway.
We'll delve more into the details, as well as take it back to the track next season. We're about to rebuild a fresh power plant for this thing over the winter, and you'll get to read more about the car in future installments at GM-EFI.com.
Thanks!
Thanks for the info!
Does this add additional weight to the vehicle??
I'll wrap my whole Trans am in Heidts advertising for this suspension
Awesome conversion, but no subframe connectors ?
They put them in. There's literally nothing left to do on the suspension.
how much hp is that rear end rated up too? i would LOVE to have this, the only thing that makes me miss my old vette was the IRS, you need to hit fb and all the NUMEROUS pages associated with this, youll make alot more
We have the entry level rear axles, which is rated for 800 hp. You can upgrade the axels for more power if you'd like.
If that setup can handle 800hp for hours on end in a track environment, or go 100k Mike's on the street that's a hell of a good base package. I see zero point in having an IRS with over 800hp, as an 800-1000hp build is likely a straight line drag machine and you really should have a solid axle for launching on a tire. And you won't benefit much from IRS running the tall sidewall.
@@TheJustinJ in all-out road racing, 800hp is fairly common. A bone stock C7 ZR1 has 755hp at the flywheel, the Redeye Challenger has 797hp and many exotics have far in excess of that.
WOW!!!!
What rims were those??
They better throw in an alignment for free. :)
We did have the alignment handled. :)
Its cool, but i would not hack my car up like that AND that car should of had the chassis done with POR15 or chassis saver, its pretty rusty
The "rusty" undercarriage will be addressed at a later date -- it's actually really solid for a Midwest car that's seen some weather. We were pressed for time and were trying to get the install accomplished for an upcoming track day that ultimately was rained out. The car has been in the owner's collection since it was brand new, so it's not going anywhere any time soon -- and with a planned engine upgrade in the works, we'll be tearing much of this apart again in the near future, anyway, and we'll address the undercarriage then.
KeweKrypto 12 i have a mint trans am, built mustang gt, built gt500 and a gen 1 viper with bolt ons and a cam, ive only went to a garage once when i was 18 because i didnt have the proper tools, and all my vehicles are rust free, you are the armchair mechanic ,suck me off buddy, i stated facts sorry if the truth hurts
You have all these supposed badass cars and yet not one single uploaded video of any of them, I would have to agree that you are either a badass armchair mechanic or a kid that is still in highschool.
Ken Bennett you got me
I personally would have cleaned the undercarriage and coated with POR15. The Rust is only gonna get worse as time goes on.
What is the biggest tire size you can put in the rear?
335
What were your wheels specs??
Does anyone know where they got the side skirts and front/rear lip at I can’t find them anywhere
6LE. But you should be able to get them at Magg Performance these days. We also went with the rear diffuser.
Thanks
What’s the wheel and tire setup ? Specs ? Spacers? I’m in Joliet
Old C4 GS/ZR1 wheels. 275 on the front and 315 on the back. No spacers.
How much does this set up cost?
Damn what's holding the motor in I guess the transmission the crossmember I see now that bar holding everything up them above
They would've took the motor mounts off the old k member and put them on the new one.
Super..🚀
I wish I had all the money in the world to fix my T A:/
Wonder how much more weighs
$6K for the base kit, not including optional brake upgrades, optional 3rd member upgrades & optional sway bar upgrade. They don't list any geometry specs. IRS - the only thing that makes a Dana 60 look light.
love Ws6 Ive had 3 But upgrades grate til you put independent axle thats not waht the TA WS6 was about.
The WS6 was an all-around, performance and handling package. A solid axle in this car was an injustice against humanity.
OK, so when are you going to make one of these kits for my S10 Blazer Extreme? LOL Seriously though, I love my vehicle, but the ride quality sucks. Shock upgrade helped, but that solid axle really lets you feel the road.
What does your shitty truck have to do with this video at all? Why would you post this?
GM EFI..........I didn't read through this entire thread. I have a question to see if this is worth doing to my car. I have a daily driver with a big sigle turbo making 1,300 RWHP through a Level 4 - 4L80E and a heavy duty built Strange 12 bolt. All I do is drive it daily and do roll racing with it. BUT...I am in need of a whole new suspension from upper/lower front arms to shocks, to springs, to even new brake rotors. SIMPLE QUESTION IS:.....will that IRS and its axles handle my power level just doing 40-50mph hard roll races to 180mph....? No drag strip launching for the 1/4 mile. Just street racing on Hossiers and that type of tire.
Oh come on its an auto? and how much does the irs weigh compared to stock? cause weight savings is a factor to going faster
If only I could afford this lmao
How much does the installation cost?
Varies on who you have do it. It's pretty involved and requires roughly 20 hours, for the ramen installer.
I want one
Will this fit a 3rd gen Iroc 🤔
They make them for '82-92 F-bodies as well. Largely the same kit, in fact. Axle length is different, though.
Whats this package cost fully installed and setup?
To purchase the kit, it's a hair below $6000. Labor costs vary, depending on where you take it for the install.
@@GMEFIMagazine I meant to say fully installed and setup at HEIDTS
Why has this video not had a follow up? That much slower, huh?
I would paint the underside of that car if I had it that tore down in Ohio.
Soon...
The motor will be coming out soon enough and the rear end section comes out easily enough, too. We'll handle it then. It's one of those deals that we didn't realize how "bad" it was until once we had everything out of the car.
here in canada i wouldve stripped it and applied rust converter then tremclad(canadian very durable)/rustoleum
I'm on the side of just make it perform and go win some races.
At one time I had an identical car in Michigan, it had some deep rust un the underside along the perimeter. I wire brushed it for two days to bare metal, Acid the rust away, primed and match painted and clear coated everything. It lasted all of 3 years. Not worth it unless you are respraying the whole car and starting with a sodablast.
I'd remove the side skirts, saw a red one on facebook where a dude did it and it looked cleaner, I'm going to remove mine. Heck some are removing side moldings too.
Man if you need another project 4th gen you guys can you my 99 formula lol as long as i get it back (hopefully swapped for a v8 lol)
That_man_Ant ! 99 Formulas have a LS1... sounds like you have a Firebird.
@@paulcabinatan2390 yes paul u are correct, just shit on my soul a little more lol
LOL... we'll keep it in mind!
@@GMEFIMagazine lol 🙏🤞
Crazy....Cool to see a company go all out on a 4th generation set up. Must be some love I imagine at the price this would cost not a whole bunch of buyers. Now under coat that car:D
i noticed that car had quite a bit more rust then my 96 Z28 and my car is not perfect, just very minimal rust. i have never driven my car in the winter and it came from California originally, but it has been in the buffalo ny area since 2008. it might have seen 1 or 2 winters with a previous owner. i have something called krown done to the car and then i park it for the winter. i just put 2K into the transmission, full overhaul and upgraded internals (bands, frictions, sprags, hardened sunshell, increased line pressure, shift kit, corvette servo)
my car runs and drives decent but it really needs interior work and paint. it would be extremely hard for me to justify an expensive setup like this when the car has other things that really need to be done.
i fear that allot of these cars are in that same state. good running but need cosmetics. these cars are 20+ years old
This is a one-owner, 99k-mile car that lived in the midwest from 2002-2012, and 2015-2018. It was driven in the Midwest winter a grand total of three times, and lived in California, Florida and Texas between 2012-2015.
All of the rust that you see was all surface rust, and much of it was cut out like cancer during this install. The interior is like new. Paint is all original. The drivetrain isn't.
We'll be pulling the engine, front suspension and driveline in the coming months for an engine rebuild, and whatever rust that's still on the bottom of the car at that point will be handled accordingly.
500 hp for the "standard model" seems a bit puny in comparison to the current cars putting out well over this from factory. Would have to go for the "high (800) horsepower" to future-proof it.
Also, looks like a lot of cutting and bolting. Would likely feel more secure had it involved a bit more welding.
How does it actually compare to a well set-up live rear? I understand the potential benefit of an IRS; I need objective info, not broad claims.
Standard model, meaning a stock F-body, one with bolt ons or one with moderate engine work. Even a 2001-2002 head/cam/bolt-on LS1 car would only deliver around 450 rwhp, which is what this kit is referring to. This is intended solely for the '93-02, F-bodies --- it's not a universal kit for all cars.
@@GMEFIMagazine No shit. Again, how's it compare to a supported live rear? I genuinely want to know.
(Restating the obvious is of *no* benefit.)
@@redslate in simplest terms for our most cynical critic, it's like comparing a rotary phone to an iPhone -- Heidts IRS is on an entirely different level compared to the solid axle, even one with aftermarket suspension.
Hope this helps! :)
@@GMEFIMagazine It doesn't... because you're still not delivering metrics... And, what a bullshit analogy: a good rotary phone is going to deliver comparable call quality to an IPhone, thus, in part, proving my fucking point.
Drop the passive aggressive tone and back your claims with some god damn stats you sorry hack of a writer. I'm literally laughing out loud. Objectivity isn't cynicism, though over-embellished optimism is a clear sign of ignorance. If you could only 'will' a product into performing well, you'd be set. Alas, that is just not it works.
How much do these kits cost? Thanks
Starting out at $5500 -- but you have to remember, it comes with a 800hp+ capable rear end and a complete upgrade of the rear suspension.
That price includes installation??
@@jay.0621 Negative, that's just for the suspension components.
how much does all these parts cost ?
Starts at 7k goes up from there depending on options.
Whats the cost of this parts and labor
CHRIS'S 1995TRANSAM willing to bet they’re high!
CHRIS'S 1995TRANSAM I’m gonna guess 6k plus labor.
mine as well do the rear end too ... with that 15,000 at least plus shop rate
Does this widen the track ? What does it do to the off set of the rear wheels? Do the stock brakes bolt back up to that
This replaces the rear end as well. You can get into this package for as low as $5500.
What does a heavy duty aftermarket rear end cost? What about all of the aftermarket suspension hardware for a 10-bolt equipped car? Factor all of that together and consider the fact that will far surpass the capabilities of any stock-type suspension out there, and the cost is certainly worth it.
Чудесно !!!
No heat shield between exhaust and plastic fuel tank,, dunno how smart that is !!!
We installed the kit as it would have been delivered from Heidts. But, you can shell out a few bucks for a form of heat wrap or heatshield for either the tank, or the exhaust. This car is an occasional weekend cruiser and track contender, not a daily driver, and is still a work in progress. We'll address that at a later date.
Great video next one kill the music and just explain what we are seeing.
Most viewers would lose interest with just dead silence and/or just the noise of the tools.
7k.... I wonder how much it can be improved 4 that money
A lot!
All-in, you could buy a damn C5 for the money
I know this vid is two years old and I’m high as hell but how is that engine sitting in that car on the lift with no k-member?...
There's a tool that you can buy that mounts to the top of the shock towers, and helps hold the engine in place while you drop the K-member.
GM EFI Magazine I see. Sounds like a good way to mess the front chassis up but I imagine the fbody structure is stronger then I thought.
One day and that day may not come for a long time, you're going to regret chopping that car up., as it being a last year bird it has the potential to become a highly sought after collectible!😥😥😥 or not!
I would only be so lucky! 98 z
Am I the only one to notice that they left bare metal showing? Anyone who knows anything about cars knows you need to cover that up or itll rust. Other than that obvious screwup, the suspension looks great and of high quality too. I wonder how much a system like that would cost someone
Bare metal? Everything that was bare metal was prepped, primed and painted over. You can find everything HEIDTS has to offer '93-02 Camaro/Firebird owners, HERE: www.heidts.com/shop-by-application/?mk=52&md=595&y=1993-2002&show=0
Thanks for the comment, Anson.
GM EFI Magazine ok I just didn't see that in the video. Must have just been testifying when putting the suspension on when I was seeing bare metal. Good job though. What does a package like that cost?