Vintage Drum sets : Bearded Drums (Episode 29)
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- This week we kick off 2018 with the first Bearded Drums episode of the year. In this episode I took a request from one of the subscribers and spent some time talking about my small vintage drumset collection. I will be talking about and playing with my Majestic Deluxe (60s), my Ludwig Downbeat (late 50s) and my first drumset a Ludwig Club Date (60s). All these drumsets are 20,12,14 and have sparkle finishes. Each of these kits have a neat little story to go along with and have a special place in my drumming career. If you have any questions about these kits or any questions about vintage drumsets in general feel free to leave a comment below.
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Bearded Drums 2018
My guess is the Majestic kit isn't difficult to tune due to "the shells" (unless horribly out of round), but most likely due to the edges. Its very common for vintage MIJ kits to have rough edges (soft wood, they get banged up easily), and the shells not being squared up. I have all the shells on my stencil kits squared up, edges re-cut, with a round over. Put on new heads, and they tune up easily, and sound amazing. Another tip: when your new edges are cut, treat with something to harder them. Some people use poly, lacquer, Danish oil, etc. This helps protect them, as Luan is quite soft. Some like to wax the edges as well.
Also, some of your vintage MIJ drum history is off. There were two major factories that built them; Hoshino K and Hoshino G. There were well over 30 brands as well.
Czechoslovakian Amati also had the same problem with the bearing edges. They were dirt cheap, but they could sound really good, especially if you re-cut the edges. Shells were Czech beech.
That blue one is my favorite out of those
Dude your a fantastic player w a great sound.
Thanks so much, I really appreciate that! 👊💯
60's ludwig club date blue sparkle is my favorite :O
I think you mean the sizes of the Japanese kit matches a Ludwig "Downbeat" as they have sizes and independent lugs top and bottom, whereas a "Clubdate" although similar in size always have a single tension lug in the middle of the shell which quickly identified them as being different from the Downbeats.
Early Club dates were available in 9x13 12x15 14x22 also
I just picked up a Blue Sparkle Majestic kit with two 12” rack toms and 14” floor tom and original snare for $50. I just started restoring it.
Cool video. Just an FYI, Majestic kits were made by Hoshino (ultimately became Tama) not Pearl. Hoshino made kits that were badged Stewart, Star, Revelle, Lyra, Drum Mate, Drum Craft, Majestic and others. Pearl made tons of stencil kits, typically with diamond/coffin shaped lugs, which carried through to the early Export series kits. Some of the popular badges on these stencil kits were, Apollo, Royce, CB700, Astro, Maxwin, Lido, Revere, Tempest and numerous others. Just discovered your channel today, really like your content, presentation and especially your playing.
Thanks so much! I appreciate you commenting and subbing. As for the info, the article I read must have been inaccurate. It stated that majestic was one of the brands manufactured by what eventually became Pearl. Thanks for clearing it up, as with all internet info sometimes it can be wrong. That’s also the best part about having a channel like this, if something is not accurate I can count on subscribers like you to help clear it up. Thanks again!
You're welcome Stephan. I've restored a couple stencil kits and my reference for badge/manufacturer identification is from The Vintage Drum Guide at: www.vintagedrumguide.com/japanese_drums/list_of_names.html Typically the more rounded Slingerland/Gretsch looking lugs are Hoshino as are the Sonor copy teardrop lugs. Virtually everything by Pearl has the coffin/diamond shaped lug. Also many of the Hoshino kits have a gray interior, which Pearl did not do. I've got a Pearl Maxwin and a Hoshino Whitehall kit that I've brought back to life. Love the 60s/70s mojo of these kits. I look forward to working through your past posts and awaiting future ones.
Thank you so much for all the info! I’ll definitely hit that link and read all the information. I totally agree, I really dig the sound of most of these vintage kits. I’ve got two episodes coming up one is going to talk about my small collection of vintage snares and the other one will talk about my small collection of vintage cymbals. Have you had any experience with vintage Gretsch kits? I have a couple of vintage Gretsch snares but have never found nor could afford a complete vintage Gretsch kit.
Yeah, prior to my retirement I had two round badge era Gretsch kits that I let go to help fund, what at that time, was an early retirement. There definitely is a mellowing of the sound that comes from 50 years of aging, but it's really only perceptible to us gear obsessed drum nerds. Today's kits are built to much more exacting standards and the build quality is excellent. Many entry to mid-level kits of today are the equal of most of the top-of-the-line kits of old. Here's a link to a video of me hacking my way though "Dexterity" on my Gretsch Catalina Jazz kit. These can be had for around $679 or $549 if you can catch a deal.
ua-cam.com/video/YDN7DVHs-aA/v-deo.html
I totally agree, the sound of the vintage one’s can’t be replicated and only a drummer would notice. I had a round badge at one point but it was a 22,13,16 and those just aren’t my sizes. I’ve always wanted a round badge 20,12,14 or an “18 kick version but once you get into those sizes the price gets out of my range. I do love the Catalina’s though, I worked at a local music store for about 8 years that was a Gretsch dealer and managed to get Catalina’s in a bout 6 different finishes. One day I’ll either run across an old round badge as fixer upper project or maybe find a deal that I can actually afford. Until then I have plenty to play with.
KILLER kits!!!,,, My 68 Silver Sparkle Ludwig's rip my man , and u my friend know how to make those kits talk !!!, Cheers!, AARON from Windsor Ontario Canada, !!
I really enjoyed you post and your playing. Bravo! Beautiful drums thanks
Thanks man, I really appreciate it. Glad you enjoyed the episode 👊💯
Fyi on the stencil kit, if you shellac, varnish, or paint (acrylic benjamin moore as did Ludwig in the 60s), it does help with the tuning and tone. Take a minute to lightly sand the bearing edges and you will be golden. Single ply coated heads will get you the most/best vintage sound...jmo great vid
Awesome video! Vintage drums are so much fun to play and collect. Those MIJ kits can sound amazing can't they? I have a few :)
Totally agree, I have enjoyed mine. I’m always in the lookout for more and have lately been hunting for a vintage Ludwig black beauty or just a vintage brass shell.
Love that Ludwig sound....prefer the blue one.
What’s the snare ?
I believe in that video I used a Pearl 14x5.5 free-floating maple.
Great channel and great content! The first thing I wanted to do after watching the video was to subscribe to your channel, but then I saw that I was already subscribed.😀 I don't understand how I missed your videos. Best regards from Serbia!
Ajax are not Made in Japan stencil kits. They're were made in England by Boosey & Hawkes and they were Birch shells.
Correct, but there was also a 'Ajax' MIJ brand as well.
I had a star drums drum kit from 1966 Japan.my very fast kit when I was seven in the mid 70’s
I really have to thank you for making this video!!! Great Job!! My questions have been answered!!!!
Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoyed the video and I’m glad answered all of your questions. If there’s anything I do well it’s sitting around and talking about my gear, LOL
Bearded Drums I absolutely agree!!!!
Absolutely excellent video dude. You've stepped it up man! this is awesome.
Thanks Stephen! I’m digging in hard now and trying to put the stuff I’ve learned thus far into action to put out even better content. You learn as you go 👊💯
Those majestic drums were definitely an alternative to the ludwigs, but their love style is actually slingerland copies. A lot of the stencil kits had to stick saver hoops same as slingerland as well. Just an FYI, great video
You're a great player but both of your Ludwig kits are Club Date kits. Club date kits have single lugs in the middle of the shell and Downbeat kits have the same shells but have two rows of lugs top and bottom.
Downbeat bass drums also have the rail consolette offset to the players left (assuming you're a right hand player). Club Dates have the rail consolette centered as yours are.
Great!
Came here for the talk on the topic.. stayed and subbed for the playing. You're an amazing player man.. I need to go practice and figure out how to get that good haha.
Wow, thanks so much! I really appreciate that 👊
I have to admit, the vintage hardware is nightmare fuel for me. I'd like the classic drums, but with modern stands. I have too many bad experiences with that old hardware. Never again. hardware (for me) started with Rogers and the 1976 memriloc kits. The drums stayed put, and could be put into (any) place the same way, every time.
Have a zeon throw off but can’t the matching snare drum 🥁🤔
Yees!
Beautiful “gumkits” haha The blue one equipped with these old Remos sounds beautiful! I have to start hunting for vintage sets. They are completely different from nowadays drums, beautiful sound and I feel different playing an old drum set. Some smaller sized drums like yours and Bonham size Ludwig set is what I am looking for. I also love sound of really, really old drum sets for example from 1930s... 28” bass drum with artwork on reso head, snare, little tomtom, wood blocks and small Turkish style cymbal. But these are, I think, impossible to find.
Anyway, like always great video sir! :)
Lol, gumkits!!! 😂😂😂 I totally agree they sound so different from modern ones and you are soooo right they do make you play a little different. I am with ya, I would really like one of the 30s style kits and have always wanted one the coveted 50s or 60s Gretch bop kits but as you said these gems are very hard to find and are usually expensive. Thanks for the comment! I’ll be doing another episode of my vintage snares soon 👊💯
Bearded Drums Do you have any vintage cymbals? Any interest in this subject? I have bought Paiste black label 2002 20” ride from 1974 yesterday, still have, a bit faded, stamps/labels on it. Sounds great! Some old Avedis I’d love to equip too.
Waiting for next episode :D
Yes I do! Thank you for mentioning it, I probably would have totally forgotten to consider it for a video topic but now that you mention it I will definitely do an episode on them. I have a 50s or 60s zildjian ride and several crashes/splashes that range from 40s-70s. I also have one of the Bosporus Master Vintage series rides that is meant to mimic the old Turkish style ones. I am writing this episode idea down right now so I make sure to put it in the queue 👊
Great video Stephen!
Thanks man!
I think you've gotten your timelines wrong on the ludwig kits. The blue sparkle should be a early 60's kit by the lack of serial numbers on the badges. The gold sparkle kit is a mid 60's kit judging by the serial number on the badge . The plating on the lugs is just a different "level" of drum set.
Thanks so much for the info! I knew that the blue ones were 60s era for sure but for the gold kit I’ve always gone by the info that was given to me when I purchased them. Thanks for a more accurate dating, I appreciate it.
Ringo played jazz festivals on Ed Sullivan, NOT club dates
Ok, serial numbers started in 1963. It was a federal law, all musical instruments had to have them. And on a side note Gretsch 60's shells never had reinforcement rings. Ludwig, Leedy, Rogers, Slingerland shells did.
Great drums! Nice playing! I'll include a link to the Ludwig Serial Number dating so you can check and find an accurate dating for the Ludwig kits. Both of those kits are Club Dates but in sizes known as "Downbeats". The Downbeat kits (sizes 20,12,14) had the "classic lugs" rather than the "bow tie" lugs that your sets have. The classic lugs were found on the Super Classic line (22, 13, 16). Also, check the interior of the shells for any possible date stamps if you haven't.www.ludwig-drums.com/en-us/ludwig/serial-guide
Yeah I thought they were both club dates, I guess his ludwig " expert" friend was misinformed.
Great video! I'm looking for a demo of a 1960s Lyra kit as I see one on my craigslist for cheap. I'm wondering if you have any opinion on that kit compared the the vintage kits you displayed here? Lyra is supposedly a cheap kit that eventually turned into Star which eventually Turned into TAMA. I cant find any videos of an old Lyra kit though. I suppose I will have to go see it for myself.
I haven’t had any experience with that brand. But, I have noticed when buying less expensive vintage kids you definitely want to check it out and see how it sounds before purchasing. So yes, definitely go put your hands on it before you consider purchasing it. Hopefully it’s in good condition and has a great finish.
No offense but AJAX drums were definitely not Japanese and were definitely not ' cheap copies'
Ajax were top line drums made in England.
I dont think downbeats have club date style center lugs. And how do you figure that the majestic stuff looks like club date?
Yeah, obviously the information I was given on two of the kids one I purchased them was wrong as well as some of the research I did online. But, there still killer kids and I enjoy them.
Want to know more about star drums from Japan mid 60’s
What’s the snare with each kit.
Prefer the blue Ludwig.
M
That was a Pearl Free Floating Maple “14x”5.5.
Luan is just as good as a wood for drums as is maple. Just like maple, that’s what they had on hand.
The video starts well and 2/4 in its all misinformed bias BS. That’s YT bread and butter I guess.
The Majestic kit is copied after Slingerland not Ludwig. Look at the lugs.
What cymbals are you using with the first kit? BTW love these videos!
Thanks so much! That is a set of Bosphorus cymbals, the Stanton Moore signature series. 22” wide ride, “20 trash crash and “14 fat hats.
Thanks so much for the response!
No problem, anytime!
If I had the cash I would love to check out his new series by Sabian although I’m sure they sound similar and they are the exact same cymbals. I’m a huge fan of Sabian and use them for my gigging cymbals and most other situations.
The trash crash seems like the perfect left side cymbal for my jazz kit, so Im totally gonna check one out.
“Coated ambassador” shows a Evans head on the snare 😂 edit: wrong drum kit 😂
Lol, that’s the gold one. The blue one has ambassadors.
Bearded Drums OOOoh I legit didn’t even notice the color 😂😂😂😂 whoops
😂👍
Oh bearded one, do your homework. Don't listen to Hough. The blue sparkle is not 50s, it's 60s. The red sparkle is a club date not downbeat. Vintage MIJ drums, really? You are better at drumming than a historian.
glad to see there are some people who can tell a down beat from a club date plus no s/n on ludwig untill late 63 to 64 duhh. dont teach dude just play.