A design flaw in the Beta tape (Betamax, Betacam, DigiBeta, HDCAM)
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- There is a small design flaw in the Beta tape format which can cause strange problems. It applies to all Beta tapes from domestic Betamax to studio Betacam, DigiBeta, HDCAM.
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In my entire professional career as a television engineer, I have never seen this be an issue. It's not a design flaw. It's purpose is to hold the tape behind the door when there is inadvertent tape slack, thus preventing the tape from falling out and snagging on the cassette loading elevator, something Sony learned from their U-Matic experience.
The design flaw is that the tape can get on the wrong side of it. You're right though, as I've said, it's much less likely to happen on professional, well maintained Betacam machines. I've had quite a number of domestic Betamax tapes in where the tape has got onto the wrong side of the guide, and just one BetacamSP tape.
Thanks for posting this video about consumer and professional video tape formats. Brings back lots of memories from my time in the broadcast industry. I've had worked with almost all flavors of Betacam decks/tapes, from Betacam, Betacam SP, Digital Betacam, HDCAM, Betacam SX, etc. I'm freezed on the part where you have a stack of pro decks with your kid in the foreground; I have worked with all those stuff, those decks and the Digital TBC/FrameSync. Ahhh memories! - Subscribed. :-)
Glad you like the channel. I'm off on a tangent about In Car equipment for a couple of weeks but will get back to the video equipment shortly.
Still yet to get a HDCAM-SR deck. They fetch good money. Sony should have made an SR version of the J-H3.
Thanks so much for uploading this to UA-cam
Interesting but I never came across a cassette tape that was in the wrong side of this guide.
thank goodness!
Yes, i discovered that too, always checking for that.
Another problem is that after years the 2 taped on black guides inside the cassette come loose, and find their way on the spools.
After some time playing the tape spool is getting stuck because it is thicker now ;-)
Ah yes, those stuck-on guides. They can break free on VHS too. Shows how similar the formats were.
Used Betamax at home and various pro Beta formats at work right up to HDCam and never once had this happen despite using some DigiBeta decks that were quite old. Guess I was lucky.
I do a lot of Betamax transfers, and expect to get about 2 tapes per year in with the tape in this position. Never yet had it with Betacam tapes, it's less likely with those.
This flaw also happened on oxide Betacam, Betacam SX, MPEG IMX and HDCAM SR.
The reason Sony put that plastic tab there is to avoid a loose tape from getting behind the P guides of the transport mechanism when inserted instead of in front of them risking the tape not getting pulled around the head, Beta tapes has a large gap in the cassette shell because of the design of the mechanism, They fitted sync and audio heads in there while VHS have the audio/sync heads away from the cassette shell so only two openings needed for the P guides makes it almost impossible for a loose tape to get into those two cavities. So I would say the entire system is a design flaw not just the tape.
I think you are right. The large gap at the front of the tape is needed because of the way the format laces up.
6:17
I see a split-second of that non-Sony, non-U-matic videotape deck at the end there.
MII is one of the best formats ever made. Cheers!
It gave good results when it worked. It just broke down too much.
Betamax lost to VHS, but Beta lived on. Digital8 lost with miniDV, yet 8mm cassette lived on, there is a pattern.
While we're at MKII, there was also Digital S, or the D-9, also failure.
I once thought that the tape was bad.🤗
Exact this gives later by DVCAM for Videocameras. It gives DVCAM Tapes and Mini DVCAM Tapes. Only Professional Camcorders (especially DSR250 e.g.) can this two Formats recording and playing or Professional Studiorecorders and the Consumer Recorder DV1000 from all from Sony....I have a DSR 250 P professional Camcorder, who can make in 720p (only on Mini DV) and 1080i (at DVCAM) Video and 32 or 48 Bit PCM Audio.
I guess they could have moulded a solid support behind the guide, to make it more obvious that the tape wasn't supposed to sit there
Alas no, because many machines have a tape guide run through that space during lace-up.
@@video99couk Yeah, I suppose there had to be a reason for it being that way in the first place. Beta always seemed to me to be quite a rugged format compared to VHS.
I've always wondered what would happen if you put the tape under that guide in the cassette instead of over it. I thought that wouldn't even thread at all. And it might break your tape or VCR.
I do think the VHS cassette was a bit better designed than the Beta cassette, Technology Connections did a video on that. But I mean Beta was the first half inch consumer video cassette format that had some success. VHS came later so they improved on the mistakes Sony did I guess.
There was the N1500 cassette before Beta, had some mild succes.
And I was a loyal beta fan in those days I had the first big sony beta machine ,four slim line machines(SL 23 and 24 )hundreds .last machines I had I went to top load machines figured they were more simple ,I had an rca top load lasted a long time ,then three sanyo's like the one you have picture ,they all worked beautiful . I only went to vhs when I seen a Mitsubishi vhs player.Plus my beta's started breaking down and most repair shops did or tryed to sell you a vhs machine.I had to go to the beta only store on Broadway and 47 th street Manhattan back in the day to continue to purchase beta tapes.Today in a box in my closet that I haven't seen since the beta's went out are my original startrek series on beta in their original boxes.
"a small design flaw in the Beta tape format" versus the many flaws in the VHS format. Interesting, but I never encountered it in over 25 years of using it as my main video medium.
It would generally only show up if a machine had a problem with the reel drive, when tape slack at eject would allow the tape to droop beneath the guide.
Had my first machine do this today.
I must be the only person who can see that the VHS formats were clearly better in most ways.
I'm still to be convinced by the pro Beta camps arguments.
There is a more serious design flaw on some of the early Sony Betamax tapes. Inside the cassette there is a couple of tabs/pads that push the tape against the plastic rollers. These pads are glued onto the shell inside the cassette, and when they get older and older, these become unglued and get caught by the tape and then you risk destroying the video heads if you attempt to play the tape. Someone gave me a box of some very old Beta cassettes and 90% of them had their pads ready to come off and get stuck onto the tape.
Yes, that's been mentioned further down this comments section, and I have seen it on occasion. I've also seen the tabs break free very occasionally on VHS.
I never really came across this being a problem, but I can see that if it happened to someone who wasn't really technical, they might just write off the tape as a total loss, say after a tape jam and people wound in the tape by hand
There was also "MI" Or M-Vision as Panasonic called it, trying to compete with Betacam it used standard VHS cassettes for 20 min of recording. RCA sold the system as "Hawkeye". MII was a horrible format for many reasons, but the man one being the extra thin tape used to get 90 minutes of recording time out of the tape that would fit in a standard VHS shell.
Yes, M format flopped even more badly than MII. I suspect it was never even sold in the UK. Absolutely the thin tape used in MII was a disaster. It was all because VHS was too big for camera use, so they had to make a smaller MII tape for that purpose and then use VHS size as the large tape. Beta was small enough for camera use so they then had larger tapes for studio use with sufficiently robust tape. Still fairly thin compared to domestic Beta though.
I never experienced that the tape was behind this bar. This is far fletched seeking for troubles never exposed, unless you have children who opened up the cassette and play around with the tape. I worked for 40 years with this tapes and never had this problem.
No it really happens, generally when a machine does not unlace the tape properly. I would say I get at least one tape each year sent to me with the tape in this state, and other people in the business tell me they do too. It will apply far more to domestic Betamax machines than to professional Betacam.
I've recently bought a handful of beta tapes unfortunately trying to find a working machine cost's way too much to buy which is crazy
Good working Beta machines can fetch a lot today. It might be cheaper to get a business (such as myself!) to transfer to a USB stick for you.
I heard once where the sony beta tapes was cut to thin and would wrinkle up on the the edges where the tracking signal was and made the tapes audio unsteady and make the tracking go off .No matter how well you took care in storing the tapes.If true now I see why my beta tapes would not play well after being stored for short periods.
Tape wrinkling can be a problem with all formats, VHS is at least as prone to this as Beta and probably rather more.
I've been running Beta my whole life and not once run into this problem. the flaw must be your SANYO 4400, that I could see.
There was no flaw in the machine, if you watch the video you will see that I introduced the fault on the tape. But I've had this on a number of tapes which have been sent to me.
@@video99couk tape slack will do it on the way out of the top loader mech. I've never had this happen with any of my Beta vcrs. but I pretty much just use Sony. do you have a video of this action taking place, i'd like to see it
@@betamaxrebeloutpost8945 It did happen to me when I was working on the Toshiba mechanical Beta (see my two UA-cam videos on that), but that was to be expected as at one point it wasn't retracting the tape during eject. Otherwise, no, my decks don't do it, but I've been sent Beta tapes like this several times now. I probably get about 1 per year in this state.
@@video99couk Well thanks for bringing this to attention. I'm working on a video that has to do with the tension tabs that are glued in place/ coming loose and how to make a quick repair. This tape guard issue may be a good part 2 section, I'll see what i can do catch it happening on video. Got a pretty good feeling though its more to do with top loaders and stand alone re-winders leaving too much tape slack on eject. We shall see!
@@betamaxrebeloutpost8945 Yes I've had those tabs come adrift once or twice. Certainly the problem I discuss here is generally caused by slack on eject, though mishandling might occasionally do it too.
when betacam and hdcam are similar.
can i record on betacam tape in an hdcam machine.
Never tried, my HDCAM is a player-only. I would really like a HDCAM-SR recorder but they still fetch serious money.
yes it is a lot of money for an hdcam. i got a hdw-1800 with er-96. but can find nothing about how I repair it.
@@andmoea I would have hours of fun trying to find out though! I do wonder, what does the HDW-1800 do that my J-H3 doesn't? Possibly not much.
Er-96 is SY NV-RAM ERROR Abnormal operation has been detected on NV-RAM (on SS-101 board) for the system control.
Could be a flat battery?
video99.co.uk Hello again.
hdw-1800 is a fun one.
i can not find a battery.
there are many online with this error.
i want to try and change the flash memory on the print.
not easy but I will try.
@@andmoea Yes I see there are others with this error. It may be that the system is reporting that it has seen a deck error and recorded it on the NVR. Clearing it may not be hard. Have you found a service manual?
hi been very very lucky man i pick up a full betacam sp cam kit cam has a grease thing where it's gone hard
been using it like you do on a tripod to make video linked to my computer got the len's as well it was gooding down
the tip the man said i just played for the shipping cost
hi i got some betacam sx sealed tapes i know they are very thin tapes is there any betacam unit's i cam used them on
i was told betacam sx has audio drop out's
SX tapes I think are the yellow ones which are interchangeable with BetacamSP, but look that up. Audio dropouts may apply just to the linear audio tracks, the FM ones might be more robust (or, possibly, the other way round).
I've seen my share of that problem!
Me too, even with pro decks. The tension arm that pulls out the tape from the cassette would cause the problem. When ejecting, if the tension arm sticks or hesitates just a bit as it tries to bring the tape back into the cassette, the tape would snag on the tension arm roller and when the cassette raises during the eject, the snagged tape would get free from the tension arm roller and SOMETIMES would get tucked behind that plastic tab in the cassette. If it kept happening consistently on a particular machine I would checked the tension arm operation, alignment or lube some times. But sometimes it would just happen once just randomly for no apparent reason. Then it would never happen again.
How do you find all these tapes and VCRs?
Well that's been my business for about 12 years now. Some machines I get on eBay, others are sent to me by customers as a trade-in against transferring their tapes to USB/hard disk. I especially like working on weird and rare formats like SVR, CVC etc.
hi this is a hard one Yamaha M20P tapes have you ever seen them i have a unit that tales them i have been looking for some time
8mm white tape unit will only take the tapes that were made for it sorry it a right pain to find tapes
What does it do if you insert a standard Hi8 tape?
hi went to a audio place this year they had a bigger tape format i forgot the name D something he said the format was always playing up all the time video 2000
not many around by now still working in the uk eu there's a lot still ton's of beta units on ebay for sell
There was professional D2 and successors:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-2_(video)
And other larger domestic formats like N1500/N1700, I've done a video on that:
ua-cam.com/video/wC_CLEQnM8w/v-deo.html
V2000 machines are pretty unreliable, but I have some working ones. I just have to be prepared to fix them occasionally:
ua-cam.com/video/YWjLNalBU2c/v-deo.html
(I released that one in May of this year, and I've had to repair it again since!)
hi you know the ADAM BY AKAI there was a 4 track 8 mm tapes made .like the tascam da38 it was a u2 rack unit i don't know who made it i saw it some where
like the rent a tune carts i have some big one's one recorders were made when i have done the unit to recorder on them i do a video i see alot of gear in the pass
bob
I've been told about it. I think the units were large, much more than 2U. You get to see my DA88 and similar in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/jYCk4oWl5A4/v-deo.html
It's possible there are no ADAM units left in working order now, but the DA88, DA98 etc. are still around.
I'm 28. The first time i saw star wars ep.5 was on beta!
I used to rent lots of Beta films back in the day. I almost never rented films on VHS because satellite TV came along in the 1990s, then DVD.
But jvc hifi video home system pioneered by Panasonic remains the best analogue recording format.
I believe that Beta HiFi outperforms VHS HiFi but would have to check through the specifications. It may be different for NTSC and PAL.
OHHHHHHHHH............. never seen a betacam... lol only seen vhsB vhsC ect
btw beeeeeeeetaaaaa ! Fascinates this American! lol