Working on Sony Betamax video recorders
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2019
- Some of the common problems on Sony Betamax video recorders including the SL-C20, SL-C30, SL-C40, SL-F25, SL-HF100 and others.
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Music “Let It Run” with permission, copyright Cristie/MacFarlane. - Наука та технологія
VERY educational video. I have two Beta decks with that type of transport, that had developed transport faults when I tried to use them a couple years ago - an SLO-420 and an SL-HF600 (I'm in the US). I had a go at fixing them, expecting worn, stretched or perished belts or rubber idlers, but was stumped when I found they had neither. Now I know FAR more about how they work, and whenever I get around to attempting repair again, I won't be clueless. THANK YOU!
I've been working on an SL-HF600 myself and another UA-cam video on the subject will be released shortly.
Great video.
Remember to label the machine with the issues and any missing or broken parts!
Knowledgeable review, thank you. the easiest way to remove the toothed load belt is to unclip the ring clip on the top of the load motor. When removed, it allows you to slide the belt up and off without any hassles.
Excellent tutorial, thanks so much!
Very useful info Colin, got a couple of Sony's including a 100 HiFi model that won't load cassettes so will check those gears. Thanks
I have a Sony C20 and the cassette won’t load , I understand it could be the drive shaft ? I also understand this can be repaired but I can’t find a video showing how ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks. Neil
Hi any idea where can i buy that gear? Is that compatible to sony betamax player SL-HF600?
The thing that measures the drum rotation and position is called the PG (pulse generator). It is usually a coil rather than a hall sensor hence a coil can detect the North pole for head A and South pole for head B. Hall effect would probably be found on less critical things like counter.
Really, these things contain 4-pin Hall Effect sensors for the head drum.
The PG pulse was used in the (EU models) SL3000, SL8000/8080 , C5, C6 and C7. It was mounted underneath the videodisc. After that all Betamax had the Hall sensor (C20,30,33,40,80 C9e/es, SLF1, F90 all HiFi Betamax SLHF100, 150 and 950ES. I use 2 or 4 super magnets on the rotating magnet and pull it out. Never used a screwdriver, avoiding damaging the coils. Me former Betamax Video8 Hi8 service technician for Sony NL.
Great work! good video
Thanks great video Colin, very helpfull information! Greets from Marcel The Netherlands Europe👍🙂👍
Hello! I have two Sony SL-C33EC. Both worked fine until they both presented the same failure: when I turn them on the deck goes stuck into rewind and the "cassette inside" light turns on (although there's no cassette inside). I've read this is a failure of the end tape sensor, but I don't know where that sensor is! Can you tell me ha can I do? I'm desperate and no one in my area fix this stuff anymore.
I've never had a tape end failure on Beta, it's very reliable. There are two, they are little coils. You can see me point one of them out on my recent Digital Betacam video (uses the same system). Perhaps the coils or cabling has gone open circuit. It's worth getting a schematic for the machine or a close model.
Hello, I recently picked up a Sony Sl-25 Betamax Unit from 1984. There was a tape stuck in it and the lacing mechanism wouldnt unlace. I got the tape with a lot of struggling and the lacing mechanism still wouldnt work. I discovered that the gear was cracked and I glued it and even then it still wouldn't unlace when I powered it up. Soon after, the gear broke in half and now I'm unsure of what to do. Any advice? Thanks in advance, Joseph
Best to try to pick up a scrap machine for parts. The same basic mechanism was used in nearly all Sony front loading models (except C6).
Thank you for nice video! I have a SL-C30 that is not working. When powered up there is kind of buzzing sound from the pendulum motor and it refuses to take cassette in. What could cause this?
Never had that kind of problem from the reel motor but I would start with suspecting a bad Hall Effect sensor.
Looks like a nice design, swing out video and control pcbs are always nice.
I learnt vcr repair from an old jvc hr3320 piano key top loader (Heavy beasts), every pcb was easy to access :-D.
You might want to ask your local tip/dump if you can have some vcr's, people throw away things for no real reason, a waste of usefull parts :-(
I remember those VHS decks, often sold in the UK as a Ferguson 3V16 model I seem to remember. They were fairly easy to work on, but not particularly reliable, remember that stupid light bulb auto-stop design? Though heavy, they were reasonably compact for the day, and I thought they were quite attractive to look at despite being the "wrong" format for my liking. In the days gone by, I did used to pick up some audio/video gear from the local dump, but these days it's a very tight operation, there's no chance. However people do often donate interesting machines to me, I was given three just yesterday which will appear on a future UA-cam video.
Yes your right, i've found quite a few that have dead bulbs.
Also the d.c motor that drove the video drum via a belt didn't last well, the picture swaying or breathing was the motor daring to wear a little.
Sea sickness tablets didn't help ha ha :-D joking.
The problem is the machines were never improved from the very early original design.
Most piano key machines were hammered in the days of renting video tapes, people always slammed the tape holder down with horrible force, They were the same paople that slammed the door on the microwave and wondered why the safety switches failed and blew the main fuse.
Sorry i waffle too much ;-(
I picked up a Sony Betamax HiFI Sl-HF2000, and although it plays commercial movie tapes well, two of my old tapes which I know had some house made movies, play mute and with a black screen. One of them actually plays the audio. Does any one of this a problem with the tapes? Or this model? I read that I need to turn auto-tracking off, but I don’t have a remote . Using the remote is the only to turn this off.
Not a model I have any information on, sorry. Perhaps another reader here can help. Or try the old-vtrs group: groups.io/g/OldVTRS
If one has a noisy drum motor, is it possible to place a few drops of oil down the shaft after you remove the magnet plate?
Never tried that but it should do no harm anyway.
Late to the game here, but the pin on the solenoid is called a roll pin. They compress a little when seated so they stay where you put them, you see them on solenoids in pinball machines too.
Thanks for the hall sensor info. I have a Betamax SL-C30PS with hall sensor corroded. Is it possible for me to use another hall sensor with 4 legs that is on the market today? Here, in Romania, Betamax was not very popular, so I can not find spare parts easily.
I believe it is possible, but I don't know the pinout so it's not going to be very obvious which way round to mount it.
@@video99couk Thanks for your answer. But now, I have another dilemma., before I try to put on another hall effect sensor.
There are moment, rare in fact, when the head starts spinning as normal when I insert a tape, for about 1 minute. After that, it stops. And it starts to giggle or it does nothing at all. Is it possible to be another fault? Is there anything I could investigate before start the scariest part of messing up with hall effect sensor?
In the hall effect sensor place I found residues of resin.
hi have you done any Digital Oscilloscope Kit i know there's a lot of people not telling lies about the kits big time i am after something low cost to tell me
the khz of audio tones with out spending the big money as i have some tape deck to tune as i am new in some places bob
Yes I did build a tiny digital 'scope kit with my son Scott. It comes in handy for quick "what's going on" moments but of course has limitations for anything more complex.
I have an SL-HF900 that I put away years ago. This video motivated me to get it out and have a go at repair. I have been repairing tube amps for over 20 years. These VCR's are are on a level of complexity 20x a vintage tube amp, but luckily I was able to repair it! Now I just need to find a good adapter box to go into the HDMI input on my monitor. What do you recommend?
I've never had reason to use an HDMI adaptor box. I have some JVC DR-MH300 DVD recorders which have that functionality. The SL-HF900 looks like a very nice machine, no equivalent was sold in the UK.
I have the same problem with my SL-T30ME. Hall effect sensor went ka-boom and no drum motor rotation...
You need to try to source a four-pin Hall Effect sensor from a scrap video recorder probably. They do appear in quite a number of makes and models. I can change one in about an hour now, I've done so many. I have a T30 (and T50) here, both in good working order.
Hi There, fascinating video! I'm wondering if you might have an idea about an issue I'm having with a C7- I have no drive to the capstans but what's more concerning is that the rewind light is permanently lit, I can get the solenoids to actuate by manually closing the circuit but they won't do it on their own. I've noticed that the logic array on the SY-10 board is getting warm around pin 15, does it sound like a cooked IC to you? I'm very new to this world but desperate to learn and you clearly know your stuff!
If the IC is roasted I'll likely just keep it for spares as I bought the machines as a pair but if it's something you could shed some light on that might get the second machine working I'd be hugely grateful!
It's a while since I worked on a C7. They are a bit over complicated and unreliable. The clock/timer buttons can jam down and may cause strange behaviour, but I think the function buttons are scanned by a different circuit. It's not really possible to diagnose faults by remote control, it's going to be a case of studying the circuit diagram and looking at signals to see where the fault lies. Sorry there's no easy fix for this kind of problem. If you have another machine, you could do some panel swapping to debug where faults lie.
@@video99couk I appreciate you getting back to me, that's a great idea! I'm suspecting SY10 and that board is easily swapped so will definitely give that a try!
I totally agree regarding out complicated they are, I should've heard alarm bells when I weighed the blasted thing! I normally love old skool engineering but a machine this big having zero wasted space makes it a nightmare to diagnose! The previous owner removed the timer buttons from both of my units thankfully so fingers crossed I can dial it down to being that logic array as the chips themselves are only about 15 quid!
It's become a matter of pride at this stage 🤣 for the record I watched the entire video and have managed to free off the take up reel side of things, a great reference video for the rest of my machine if I can fix the control board, thank you very much!
Colin, another Nice video from you I've just watched 👍😀 I have two Betamax players, both PAL, sony sl-hf950 and sony sl-hf100. Both having problem with playback. Image is rolling, white horizontal snowy bars, tracking responds but still not stable image. If I use cleaning tape image can seem to look better but just for 10 minutes than we're back to good old unstable image. I have tried to clean path and heads manually but no big difference, maybe less snow but still no good stable play back. Can this be machanical, like take up reel or something? I strugle with say 8 out of 10 tapes
Manually clean the A/C head, especially the bottom part where the tracking signals are recorded. If you've had mouldy tapes, mould builds up on the A/C head right where the head gaps are.
Colin, could you use a contact cleaning brush with fine fiberglass fibers to clean the contacts on the Hall Effect Sensor. I've enjoyed all your videos. Thank you for the time and effort you put into making them.
I've never had any luck with just cleaning up the contacts, I find they always need replacing when they fail. Other people may have different experiences though.
Great explanation! do you have any tips on centering the head disc on the SL-C7 when you don't have the centering kit?
Ah yes, that's something I used to do as it happens. You are supposed to use an eccentricity gauge, which is basically a Dial Test Indicator on a bracket. But I found a better way, you can do it optically. All you need is a small powerful eyepiece microscope or similar, which can be held steady. You can move your eyes to a position that the edge of the head disk is running past one of the static components above the drum assembly, I wish I could remember which one, but basically get it so you get a tiny visible gap between any edge above the head disk. Then you set the disk roughly right (no obvious wobble), nip the screws up, and rotate the disk by hand. You can set it up so that you get no wobble as it rotates, just by watching for a tiny gap opening and closing through the microscope. Gently tap the disk if you see it wobble, and when you remove that wobble, tighten the screws and test again. You can easily get the eccentricity down to a few hundredths of a mm like this, with a bit of patience. I quite enjoyed doing that. I don't enjoy working on just about any other aspect of the C7 though! Not my favourite machine.
Many thanks for your reply! I did something similar, but I wasn't sure if it is the correct way: I've propped a straight piece of paper (note) right against the head disc with some clips, leaving a tiny gap and rotated the disc looking with a magnifying glass until there was no visible wobble. it works fairy well like this. I agree it is not an easy machine to work on, mine had the well known Sanyo capacitors in the servo, but also ALL the Elna capacitors leaked their acid on all the boards. I love the sound quality however, for a mono machine it sounds very well (no IC's, only discreet transistors and two relays for switching). Best Regards, Moshe.
@@moshezaharia4666 Yes, that's the general technique. You really do need at least a 10X magnifier to get it accurate. I don't blame Sanyo for the servo capacitor problems on the C6 and C7, I blame Sony for using the wrong kind of capacitors. When I replace the two offending 0.22uF capacitors in the C6 servo circuit, I use polyester instead of electrolytic. I remember changing lots of push-button switches on C7 clock panels. These days I rarely work on machines of that vintage, though I did restore a nice SL3000 portable about a year ago. The oldest Sony I usually give workshop time to now is the C9, I have three of those in working order. I also have three SL-HF100 Beta HiFi machines, they are my favourite and give better linear mono sound than an F25.
Hi I have bought a second hand Sony C20 , I bought a lead to connect it to a tv , I watched a video on utube to clean the head and audio thingy’s !!! So I was ready to watch some ancient family videos .... the machine would accept a tape ... there isn’t a tape in and it’s switched on , is there a reason or fix for this ? Many Thanks
So it's on but won't accept a tape? There could be several reasons for that and it's not really possible to diagnose it from a distance. It needs looking at by someone familiar with these machines. Perhaps look for some someone local to you: www.t-m-f.uk/forumdisplay.php?397-Find-a-Local-TV-Engineer-Here
Hey , I have betamax player , and when I play the tape , the picture was not clear , it is bad and low resolution than vhs . I do not know is it like this or there is some thing wrong ? Why the picture is too low resolution, by the way the betamax player is almost new .
There's probably a fault. It could be as simple as dirty video heads, so perhaps just try leaving a known good tape playing. If you have a BASF branded tape, try that because they can help clean heads. If it doesn't clear after a few hours of playback, then the machine will require some professional expertise.
Hi Colin, I've got a HF100UB which I rescued with a load of other betas from a shed. After some cleaning, tlc and readjusting to a consistent temperature it can work lovely, but when it doesn't work it has various faults, the most recent being that it plays really fast. Any ideas on the speedy play? PS thanks for your videos, all very helpful and entertaining for us video folk :)
Probably random capacitor trouble, it would require careful fault finding. However check the service manual for the capstan free-wheel speed. If that's set too high then the "default" speed can be too high and cause problems like this. The manual will suggest disconnecting the control pulses in some way, then set the capstan speed so it plays almost perfectly, then reconnect control pulses.
@@video99couk many thanks
i have the Sony SL-HF650 Betamax. the problem is that the sound is very low when i play a movie. the movie sounds good when i try it in another betamax. does anyone know how to fix this problem ? thanks
Is that just the linear audio, or the hifi sound? If just linear audio, it's most likely that the audio/control head needs cleaning with swabs and isopropyl alchohol.
Hi, i have a sony sl-f30 clock works but no power, any advice please?
You should try to download the service manual (I don't have that one) and check power supply voltages. They probably are not present due to a power supply fault, perhaps the regulator chip. Probably a relatively straightforward repair for someone with some electronics experience.
Nice video player.
Have you ever seen a twin speed beta recorder or is beta III only on machines inthe usa
Only NTSC Beta machines have different running speeds All PAL machines are single speed.
I have a grey C30 here, just for decoration purposes LOL , I like it !
If it doesn't work, you should get it going again. Apart from the Hall Effect sensors and the reel idler, they were pretty reliable.
Great work!! Could you demonstration how to adjust the tape path and tracking, please? I have a Ed-Beta machine. It seems always out of tracking.
Setting up the tape path is fairly involved and requires an oscilloscope. I did do that on a DAT player some months ago. But first check that there's not another cause such as tape riding up due to a worn pinch roller.
@@video99couk Maybe it time to bin it. :(
@@alanwong3980 Noooooo! Not an ED-Beta, don't bin that! What country are you in?
@@video99couk I am in Dublin(Ireland).
I bin Sl-Hf95D and EV-Bs3000 already. Nobody want to fix them.
Have you ever ran into a issue with a clicking/ticking noise when playing Beta Hifi prerecorded tapes? Linear audio runs fine but there is a ticking noise on Hifi audio. It does change slightly when adjusting tracking. On a SL-HF360.
This was a common problem on VHS and Beta HiFi in the early days especially. It can be due to tracking issues, but if it does it with its own recordings then worn or contaminated heads are more likely.
@@video99couk Thanks for the response. Any chance it could be a dodgy cap on the hifi board?
@@UrielX1212 Caps can fail anywhere so it's always possible. Also I've realised you are talking about a USA model. That changes everything because NTSC Beta HiFi didn't require the extra heads that PAL (and all VHS) required, so that simplifies it and makes an electronic fault much more likely. The service manual would really help in diagnosing this sort of fault.
I have this model which is working fine apart from clock dispay not working properly(cant stop minute display fro flashing)
That's quite an usual fault. Probably the only chance is to get a clock unit from a scrap machine.
I did watched this for a while, thanks for some visual explanation on how to change/clean Hall effect sensor etc. and etc. I did read instruction on repairing Hall effect sensor from PALsite but as I bit afraid from breaking up from above (head drum), so I had to give up.
A good question from me who picked a SL-C40 and plans to repair it.
1. Is hall effect sensor replaceable with similar hall effect sensor sold at numerous robotics store (in case the replacement parts from other Betas are not available)? I found several hall sensor that has similar number of legs with one used on Betamax, but I wary if it has been tested to be usable as replacement parts for 30+ years old hall effect sensor.
2. Has anyone know IC parts number for IC601, as my SL-C40 doesn't perform eject, playback, pause, FF/Rewind and spinning its head despite no cassettes at all, I have suspicion with this SYSCON part of board YC25 (correct me if I wrong, I used SL-C30 board as reference, I believe SL-C30 and SL-C40 may have few differences on boards. I already looking for service guide for SL-C40 but to no avail.) that its IC being contaminated with dried glue. Was it MB88421-113M used by SL-C30 or uses other type?
Greetings from Indonesia, a country where obsolete tech is never appreciated!
There will be some differences between the C30 and C40, because the C40 has stereo linear audio (not very good). I have the SLC30 manual .pdf file here if you need that, but not hte SLC40. I don't know what Hall Effect sensors are compatible with he Beta ones. I think they are fairly common, I've read that ones from Toshiba VHS machines are interchangeable, but I don't know the pinout. They are also used in Sony Umatic machines I think.
@@video99couk Actually I downloaded SL-C30 service manual somewhere months ago as I owned a SL-C30, likely a scrap, as I found the upper drum is stripped and the tape bay don't load the tape. I had to tell that finding that VHS player as parts (likely 1980s-90s model) like hall effect sensor in Indonesia takes a lot of time, as VHS and Betas are quickly scrapped - no matter the working order condition - blame the existence of LaserDisc and VCDs for this. I may have later-model, mono Toshiba VHS players (the V-E29 and V-E30) but I don't know if they have hall effect sensor at all or they have different design.
As my second question is not answered, I will assume that IC part number on my C40's broken IC601 is same as SL-C30 ones. But can I ask you about issues that my Betamax SL-S2000 have?
Edit: here the image of board TB-3 of my SL-C40, not known if this is additions or original parts, I suspect this as source of faulty IC601.
drive.google.com/file/d/1IfIH5zFpjgFlSn2nB5SBxEtH3-40m4RE/view?usp=sharing
@@musnahterinjak I don't know about the IC numbers, I can't answer that question. If you have a scrap C30 then you have two or three Hall Effect sensors you can use for the C40. I have not yet found another source for those sensors than scrap machines.
@@video99couk oh alright, I thought you have other reference for that (IC number). No one has uploaded service guide for C40 yet, I really need this.
I'll check my C30 whenever the Hall effect sensor are still there, or already taken away for other C30/C40. The good news is, my C40's head still spins, so I had to find other references to resolve C40's no power LED, no FF/REW, no eject, playback and "AU" channel number.
how are you colin? my betamax sl-t50me thinks there is a vhs inside or something! it keeps making a weird sound, it was working fine a day ago now it’s doing this!
i can send you a video of it, any help will be appreciated
There could be multiple reasons for that, but usually noises come from the loading gear. See my video on that: ua-cam.com/video/qYSnQAtNhAI/v-deo.html
Good
Hello
I have a SL-F1 portable recorder, I haven’t used for a very long time and yesterday I’ve decided to see if it still works. And surprise it works very good. I then recorded something and realise that on the titles of a movie it has some black thin horizontal strips, but only on the titles and only on recording. I tried several old tapes and the picture is perfectly clear,I’m surprised for such an old recorder. My question is, does it come from the head amp or in the video circuitry.
Thanks a lot
You make great videos by the way I liked specially the EV-S 9000 which I also own and did the same repairs.
Beta pushes the tape specifications a bit harder than VHS, and these little black tails can result. The two most likely causes are:
1: The tape itself is in poor condition. Try a different tape.
2: You won't like this. Head wear is a common cause. Sometimes the tails appear on record only. Sometimes playback only. Sometimes both. Changing the head disk on this machine isn't much fun, but it is possible.
3: Dirty heads, such as contamination on the head disk which is slightly pushing the tape away from the head tips. Manual cleaning with proper head cleaning sticks is the only real solution to this, a head cleaner tape probably won't solve it (unless you are very lucky).
Glad you liked the EVS9000E video (actually I've done two now). The first one took ages to do!
video99.co.uk
Well I did a manual cleaning and still the same. The thing is, it’s only on the white titles of a movie.
Yes replacing a drum head on these machines is very long and difficult. If I had one I would do it.
About the ev s9000 I have a spare flat cable you torn out ;)
Would be nice if you do another video about it.
Greetings
video99.co.uk Hello again, after half day of searching I finally found the problem. It was,as you said, a little dust caught on the head disc, very difficult to see. Now all is good. Thanks a lot! If you need the flat cable to replace yours on the EV-S 9000, I can ship one of my spares. Thanks again. Greetings.
@@borislazarov8475 Glad to have helped.
My Sanyo VTC5300P has a fail safe eject mechanism so long as there is power in the loading drive path, it uses a dedicated gear to turn the take up reel base. Better to not get the tape out at all than to damage it.
The 5300/5400 was the last Sanyo model to stay laced at all times the tape was inserted. So its mechanism is quite different to the later models.
Hallo wie kann man beim model sony sl-hf100 ec pal/secam wechseln?? Bein mir sind alle Kassetten in schwarz/weiß aber wenn ich was aufnehme dann ist die Aufnahme in Farbe bitte um Hilfe Danke
SECAM tapes won't play in colour on the SL-HF100. You need something like a Sony SL-T30, SL-T50 or Sanyo VTC5550, all of which support PAL and SECAM.
@@video99couk Ok Vielen Dank
I would like to see you fix that betamax vcr
I'm working on a Beta video recorder right now as it happens, video will be released in about 8 days.
the problem you have in this vcr is bad capacitor on reel motor other problem is capstan there is capacitor thae last problem is head not spinning its hall sensor and capacitor
got SL-C20 needs fixing wont play tapes plays for few seconds then stops fast forward and rewind works
Is the head drum spinning at full proper speed during play? If not, then the Hall Effect sensor is the most likely cause. If drum is spinning OK, then use a twin window cassette to see if the take-up spool is rotating fast enough to take up all the tape as it comes off the pinch roller. If not, then reel idler or its mounting are likely causes.
@@video99couk yeah head drum is spinning up fast on play but tape is not rotating it seems to rotate on fast forward and rewind
@@Dominator1-z7x If you put it into pause, does that work OK? How about picture search? Remember also that the tape is not driven by the spools but by the pinch roller and capstan, so check to see if they are rotating. If not, you may have a stalled capstan for some reason. You need to take a close look at exactly what is not happening.
@@video99couk it doesn't have pinch roller on it other was worn out what I'm gonna do is borrow pinch roller off my slhf100 see if player works properly
Tried it with my pinch roller from working slhf100 chews tapes now with pinch roller installed tape gets all tangled around pinch roller
Is this correct? BI=SP, BII=LP, BIII=EP. Since SONY got rid of BI, it means VHS SP quality is better than Beta BII quality.
Not exactly: BII=SP, BIII=LP. BI was faster than SP and gave excellent picture. On PAL, there is only BII (SP) and the quality (especially on PAL) is far better than VHS.
VHS sp is infact better than Bii because in Bii there is finger print effect but VHS does not. But Sony solved this issue by introducing Super Beta that better resolution than VHS in both B2 and B3 speed and no more fingertip effect.
Besitze Betamax SL-F35! Läuft crka 6Sek und dann Ende! Geht nur dann wieder an! Netzschalter aus und an! Vor und zurück das gleiche! Kennt jemand diesen Fehler
Seeing a front loading Betamax just seems so weird to me.
Nearly all Sony models were front loading. But the top selling Sanyo VTC5000 and VTC5150 were top loaders (the VTC5000 was the top selling UK video recorder at one point, outselling all VHS models). Sanyo also did plenty of front loaders too though.
@@video99couk I've only ever had one of the Sanyo ones myself, which was a top loader, and the older Sony we had back in the 80's was also a top loader so I thought just about all Betamax machines were that way.
ih to all audio fans out there to all the cassette uk emi made cassette made in the uk i have been talking to somone i know of a long time the recording the masters
is over priced rip of there is going to be a real video's on caseettes and how tape was made in the uk
at the place out side london there;s going to be alot of up set that will be unmasked that have made video about cassettes whi i never pay rip of price;s bob
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All the replacement parts should come from a 3D printer.
Good