Thanks Tom - this was such a good insight into what you do, and why you do it. Such a rewarding experience to identify a boundary in the landscape today, from a description written over 1,000 years ago. Stand out bits for me on this one, included the cross that used to stand on Warren Hill, the old quarry probably still being there, and of course, Grim’s Ditch. I must try to find one of these to solve up in my neck of the woods. Cheers for doing this and weren’t we lucky with the weather.
I was already very impressed by the lengths you go to in order to interpret these charters but after watching this pair of videos that has increased significantly. So little of it seems to be clear cut with easy answers and I think I'd find all those grey areas quite frustrating to deal with. Perhaps some people are better at dealing with ambiguity than others? Great video, really nicely captured scenery and there was some beautiful lighting in many of these scenes.
You do something similar when you unearth the aristocrats that owned parts of London reflected in pub coats of arms. A picture of Georgian London and its power and economics is appearing beneath all the bricks. We started with very little, two landmarks in the wrong places, but the logic became clear and though absolute historical precision eludes us we have a broad brush view. My tolerance of ambiguity is related to my sense of mischief, the world is absurd. I need to cultivate a more serious sense of the gravity of certainty. I did once have a melt down when I was assured a stone in the 1920s was where I was looking a hundred years later. It would've taken effort to remove it and I was upset, the farmer must have known it was related to his parish history or it was never there or I was looking in the wrong place or the charter wasn't describing what was there. As for the entirely different looks of the two videos, I was shocked at the unforgiving view given by his lenses that shattered the misty-eyed view given by mine. I darkened the auto-exposure of the camera on-site to reflect what I was actually seeing, the woods were dark, the sun bright. Auto-exposure if left to its devices brightens the scene in woods so you can see things better, I can see darkness so I want darkness but it might hide the bald truth.
@@AllotmentFoxI am sorry about my unflattering lenses - I must learn to adjust settings and am lazy in that regard. Personally, I really like the shots of you in the woods filmed on the main camera, where the colours pop. By contrast, the GoPro on me in those scenes, flattens everything and brings out all the lines on my ageing face! It’s relatively easy to change settings on the P3 and will have a go at it next time.
@@AllotmentFox I found it fascinating having those two different visual interpretations of some of the same scenes! I of course cannot comment from any position of expertise, my approach to videography is pretty much limited to "I want to show a thing on the screen that looks a bit like the thing I'm currently talking about". I think your two different approaches each fit with your differing styles of videomaking. Mr WC21's videos are generally bold, bright and captivating; yours are more pensive, atmospheric and biophilic. Vive la difference!
Everybody sees things from a minutely different perspective , and the Charters in attempting to define something have lost some of their definition over time, by change of accent given by language, and the ever changing landscape. Both of you bring something to the party which is so refreshing, and it’s not a dry academic emphatic. Great stuff.😊
This is what I am saying, which is more truthful, the camera that is placed and exposed to give a sense of something the owner wants or the cold hard truth of unfiltered light hitting a sensor? My video showed two action antiquarians in their prime exploring the wildwood. Yours showed one well-dressed man and a slob dragging themselves round a ditch. I had a salad this morning thanks to you.
Hi Tom, very enjoyable to watch and interesting contrasts in both videos. I enjoyed them both equally. I'm amazed that you can extract so much from these old charters and still be able to identify something in the land or place names a thousand years later. I'm sure we would all sign a petition for you to be able to see the original documents in the British museum (or was it library) but perhaps for the work at hand you don't need to see the actual document especially if the on line content is high resolution, obviously you will miss out on the smell. By the sounds of it there is a lot still to be discovered and teased out of these charters Whilst I did enjoy Jon Pertwee as the doctor, I think I remember Tom Baker more, it all started going wrong with K9 if you ask me!! Now the Master, that is the question, it has to be Robert Delgado!! Music wise yes I remember the Smiths but for some reason I thought you were going to mention The Stranglers, still going today alass with only one of the original lineup. All the best!!
@@AllotmentFox Nearest place of some interest is Lancaster and surrounding area, which I think maybe too far away. I also work in Burton in Kendal area and have started to count species in hedges around me, its good fun. :)
@Meusli There aren’t many charters in the north but there are other ways to dig up things of antiquarian interest. Plus Darren is fed up of driving to the south for collaborations
Watched this half of the collaboration first and thoroughly enjoyed it's slightly Contentious Nature! well done Tom firstly for bringing Consistently interesting Historical Investigative Videos out and secondly for Being able to successfully manage Darrens need for difinitive answers so amicably! Right i'm off to watch the WC21UKProductions Video now! Excellent Sunday Morning Viewing
There is some discussion on that etymology including the suggestion that it might be related to herepað. But harp is also proposed, I don’t know which is right
It’s so intriguing that Grimsditch ends abruptly just south of Nuffield. It’s a huge structure and must have represented a vast investment of time and energy for the people who built it. So why does it just stop in that particularly place?
Do we know if this charter described a then newly created boundary or parish? If so, "the old way" could mean not "an ancient way to walk on" but rather "the way a boundary has run since old times".
I looked at all the compounds of weg in Bosworth-Toller’s dictionary of OE and couldn’t find an example that didn’t mean track in some sense. The only ambiguous possibility is healf-weg, “halfway between two extremes” but even then that suggests geography as much as anything else. I mean it could … but …
Brilliant. Thoroughly enjoyable collaboration.
Thank you!
Thanks Tom - this was such a good insight into what you do, and why you do it.
Such a rewarding experience to identify a boundary in the landscape today, from a description written over 1,000 years ago.
Stand out bits for me on this one, included the cross that used to stand on Warren Hill, the old quarry probably still being there, and of course, Grim’s Ditch.
I must try to find one of these to solve up in my neck of the woods.
Cheers for doing this and weren’t we lucky with the weather.
Thanks, Darren, it was enjoyable if uncontrollable. I’m looking at a charter south of Chalgrove now, I can solve key parts. Interested?
@ yes! I could potentially combine that with the Battle of Chalgrove Field and the “Great Hedge” - is anything left of it - I need to know.
Excellent Chilterns chat. Enjoyed this collaboration. Autumn looks good on a sunny day with all those beech trees up the ditch.
Yes it was good weather and good company.
Interesting dynamic, evolving theories, loved it
@@harley419 thank you, Harley, it was worth going out there and having a look
I was already very impressed by the lengths you go to in order to interpret these charters but after watching this pair of videos that has increased significantly. So little of it seems to be clear cut with easy answers and I think I'd find all those grey areas quite frustrating to deal with. Perhaps some people are better at dealing with ambiguity than others?
Great video, really nicely captured scenery and there was some beautiful lighting in many of these scenes.
You do something similar when you unearth the aristocrats that owned parts of London reflected in pub coats of arms. A picture of Georgian London and its power and economics is appearing beneath all the bricks.
We started with very little, two landmarks in the wrong places, but the logic became clear and though absolute historical precision eludes us we have a broad brush view.
My tolerance of ambiguity is related to my sense of mischief, the world is absurd. I need to cultivate a more serious sense of the gravity of certainty. I did once have a melt down when I was assured a stone in the 1920s was where I was looking a hundred years later. It would've taken effort to remove it and I was upset, the farmer must have known it was related to his parish history or it was never there or I was looking in the wrong place or the charter wasn't describing what was there.
As for the entirely different looks of the two videos, I was shocked at the unforgiving view given by his lenses that shattered the misty-eyed view given by mine. I darkened the auto-exposure of the camera on-site to reflect what I was actually seeing, the woods were dark, the sun bright. Auto-exposure if left to its devices brightens the scene in woods so you can see things better, I can see darkness so I want darkness but it might hide the bald truth.
@@AllotmentFoxI am sorry about my unflattering lenses - I must learn to adjust settings and am lazy in that regard. Personally, I really like the shots of you in the woods filmed on the main camera, where the colours pop. By contrast, the GoPro on me in those scenes, flattens everything and brings out all the lines on my ageing face!
It’s relatively easy to change settings on the P3 and will have a go at it next time.
@@AllotmentFox I found it fascinating having those two different visual interpretations of some of the same scenes! I of course cannot comment from any position of expertise, my approach to videography is pretty much limited to "I want to show a thing on the screen that looks a bit like the thing I'm currently talking about".
I think your two different approaches each fit with your differing styles of videomaking. Mr WC21's videos are generally bold, bright and captivating; yours are more pensive, atmospheric and biophilic. Vive la difference!
Everybody sees things from a minutely different perspective , and the Charters in attempting to define something have lost some of their definition over time, by change of accent given by language, and the ever changing landscape. Both of you bring something to the party which is so refreshing, and it’s not a dry academic emphatic. Great stuff.😊
This is what I am saying, which is more truthful, the camera that is placed and exposed to give a sense of something the owner wants or the cold hard truth of unfiltered light hitting a sensor? My video showed two action antiquarians in their prime exploring the wildwood. Yours showed one well-dressed man and a slob dragging themselves round a ditch. I had a salad this morning thanks to you.
Great video. Best bit was you both trying to finish each others sentences.
Ha! I noticed that when I was editing mine - not at the time, though!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Don't let Tom tell you its just you interrupting him 😊
@@iainmc9859 I won’t - he was just as guilty!
I didn’t get a word in edgewise
@@AllotmentFox Me thinks thou protests too much 😁
I honestly think you answered my questions very diplomatically 🤣. An absolutely wonderful, chock-full of information vid. Well done guys!.
I have a problematic relationship with both: they are both in my wing of popular culture but I watch/listen to neither
@@AllotmentFox Say it as it is in Anglo-Saxon...I'll not understand a word of it dear fellow 🤣.But would love to hear it spoken.
@philcollinson328 what have I got to say in Old English? Something to do with Dohter Hwa?
@philcollinson328 or something to do with ða Smiðas?
Hi Tom, very enjoyable to watch and interesting contrasts in both videos. I enjoyed them both equally.
I'm amazed that you can extract so much from these old charters and still be able to identify something in the land or place names a thousand years later.
I'm sure we would all sign a petition for you to be able to see the original documents in the British museum (or was it library) but perhaps for the work at hand you don't need to see the actual document especially if the on line content is high resolution, obviously you will miss out on the smell. By the sounds of it there is a lot still to be discovered and teased out of these charters
Whilst I did enjoy Jon Pertwee as the doctor, I think I remember Tom Baker more, it all started going wrong with K9 if you ask me!! Now the Master, that is the question, it has to be Robert Delgado!! Music wise yes I remember the Smiths but for some reason I thought you were going to mention The Stranglers, still going today alass with only one of the original lineup.
All the best!!
Thanks
Thank you Meusli, that is most thoughtful
Thanks for a great video, really enjoyed it. :)
I’m glad you enjoyed it. Let me know if there is anywhere near you (but hopefully not a huge distance) that needs investigating
@@AllotmentFox Nearest place of some interest is Lancaster and surrounding area, which I think maybe too far away. I also work in Burton in Kendal area and have started to count species in hedges around me, its good fun. :)
@Meusli There aren’t many charters in the north but there are other ways to dig up things of antiquarian interest. Plus Darren is fed up of driving to the south for collaborations
@@AllotmentFoxboth of these places are very close to me. Let me know when you’re coming up.
Watched this half of the collaboration first and thoroughly enjoyed it's slightly Contentious Nature! well done Tom firstly for bringing Consistently interesting Historical Investigative Videos out and secondly for Being able to successfully manage Darrens need for difinitive answers so amicably! Right i'm off to watch the WC21UKProductions Video now! Excellent Sunday Morning Viewing
Thank you Jamie. The internet is full of half-truths and poppycock and we must guard against adding to it!
Ace one, chap.
Thanks, Toast
There is a Harpenden in Hertfordshire too
There is some discussion on that etymology including the suggestion that it might be related to herepað. But harp is also proposed, I don’t know which is right
It’s so intriguing that Grimsditch ends abruptly just south of Nuffield. It’s a huge structure and must have represented a vast investment of time and energy for the people who built it. So why does it just stop in that particularly place?
it does carry on (on the OS map and you can make it out on aerial photos) but its route is more wiggly.
Do we know if this charter described a then newly created boundary or parish? If so, "the old way" could mean not "an ancient way to walk on" but rather "the way a boundary has run since old times".
I looked at all the compounds of weg in Bosworth-Toller’s dictionary of OE and couldn’t find an example that didn’t mean track in some sense. The only ambiguous possibility is healf-weg, “halfway between two extremes” but even then that suggests geography as much as anything else. I mean it could … but …
Thanks
Thanks, Phil, you’re a gent!