Sexuality & Gender Identity | with Dr. J. Michael Bailey
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Autogynephilia is literally "love of oneself as a woman." It is not a concept without controversy, but Dr. Bailey and his colleague Dr. Ray Blanchard have published many articles and papers (and a book or two) on the subject:
bit.ly/2ARoUtN
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Dr. Bailey's controversial book, "The Man Who Would Be Queen": amzn.to/2GUzkyK
Podcast version: bit.ly/2Xz2fgN
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With second wave feminism we saw lots of women become lesbians. Many of those women later went back to heterosexual. I am a 51yo lesbian. I was just starting the bar scene in the late 80's and back then we made a distinction between what we called "Political Lesbians" and women that had a primary attraction to other women.
There were lots of women in the late 80's that were going back to men because the feminism movement was over & they were realizing they weren't really gay. The lesbian bar scene got smaller and smaller every year.
I am a psychologist now, I was in school back then and I was watching the social issues. What I believe was happening is all the women that became lesbian during the height of 2nd wave feminism were going back to their primary attraction when the political movement was over.
I think in the 70's, lots of women became lesbian to fit in, or become more radical in the feminism movement. When that movement was over they went back to heterosexual.
I see lots of parallels with the trans thing today. Becoming trans gets people social capital, for lack of a better way to put it. It puts them in the center of today's activism & it's the trendy thing to do.
I would bet, within the trans community, they make a distinction between those that are politically driven, or just following the trend and those that are more traditionally trans, those that want to quietly transition and live as the opposite sex without lots of attention.
My partner & I settled down 20 years ago and we are not up on current trends within the community so I am just speculating based on what we saw with heterosexual women becoming lesbian during the 2nd wave movement.
I think we are seeing a similar social phenomenon with the trans thing today. I just don't know if people within the trans community are making a distinction between those that are politically or trend driven and those that aren't. Can anyone fill me in on that?
Either way, I think it's going to be a huge problem in the future. When a woman realizes she isn't really lesbian, it's simple, she just quits dating women. When a trans person realizes they aren't really trans, it's not so easy to reverse if they have had surgeries and took hormones for a decade or more. These trends and political movements come and go. When the trans thing is over, lots of people that were politically driven are going to be in a really bad spot. They can't put a uterus back in. They can't give a man his organ back. It's not as simple as just going back to dating men when they discover they weren't really lesbian.
shananagans5
In other words, do "political trans" people currently exist the way "political lesbians" existed in the 1970s and 1980s? Interesting question.
@@supersporkspank I think it's more complex than it was in the 70's. In the 70's it was more of a "I am a warrior for women" "We don't need men." kinda thing. That's relatively straight forward.
Now it's not cool to be capable and strong. Now it's more of a "I will be the biggest victim I can." "Look at me, I am part of this oppressed group." Now, being a victim, being part of an oppressed group brings social capital. I don't think some of the younger teens really even understand the underlying political factors, they are just doing it to be unique, or to fit in with a group. They don't necessarily see how the victim politics, or Identity politics made it so it is the cool thing to do.
Others are doing it to be more radical within activist groups. "I am trans, you have to listen to me" kind of thing.
It's more complicated than the explosion of lesbians in the 70's but yea, I think there is a politically driven root there.
@trinitygirl007
_[M]any young girls want to be trans to escape the violent and degrading treatment they see women getting in porn._
So these girls are Corsican Sisters with these porn actresses, and their only recourse for their odd condition is to transition? I'd think simply not watching porn one considers violent and degrading would be recourse enough.
I'm not familiar with the Karen White case, so I'll withhold comment about it, except to say that if Karen White was raped or assaulted by someone claiming to be trans in order to gain access to her, then this is of course a terrible crime, and the perpetrator deserves suitably harsh punishment for it.
I fail, however, to see any justification for your blanket demonization of autogynephiles, who it seems to me suffer from genuine gender dysphoria-as evidenced by their generally extreme reluctance to discuss their condition. Yes, autogynephiles are heterosexual, but that doesn't mean they're conspiring to rape lesbians. Sorry, but I think that's a load of paranoid crap.
@@HelenTheGiantSlayer This is a really interesting thread, thanks everyone! I've only ever known about the child-onset trans people -- who just want to quietly transition and then lead as normal a life as possible. And I and the two trans people whom I know, we've all been baffled and deeply disturbed by the "transwomen" (autogynophiles) who DON'T want the surgery but who DO want to be seen as women, even at the endangerment of science and reality. I'm sharing this video and comments with them.
(Warning, long story):
Years ago, I worked with a group that was originally mostly American Indian, peacefully protesting (and eventually succeeding) to save an ancient spring from being contaminated and destroyed by a highway reroute project. In order to ensure the protection of the spring, some of us had to be at the site 24/7, in a part of the US where ambient winter temps can get as low as minus 20 (and even colder when wind-chill is factored in).
This is of course possible in a traditional tipi; but we all took turns being on-site, because no one could take months off from work to live there 24/7. (I'm indigenous Tahitian, so I've always been interested in indigenous rights, but most of my indigenous friends are Indian.)
As always, our protest (like any protest) drew supporters from completely-unrelated activist groups; and because we needed as many people as possible, we were grateful for any help. As long as they agreed to abide by the rules that our protest was to be PEACEFUL and NOT violent, and to respect the "No drugs and No alcohol on site" rule.
One of my trans friends is Indian, and she'd saved up for years to get the surgery. In some Indian nations (not all, obviously) there's a long tradition of accepting child-onset trans people to identify as the opposite gender when they become an adult tribal member. They get a new name, and are accepted as the gender with which they identity; and as soon as technology provided the means for them to physically transition, they did so as soon as they could either afford it, or get insurance to help.
Through her (who has given me permission to share the story) I met my other trans friend (who also says he's okay with me sharing this). He had also saved up for years to get the surgery; and now they both live as a woman and a man (respectively) . . . But although neither was able to physically transition until they were well into middle age, neither EVER sought access to "women only" or "men only" spaces until AFTER they had physically transitioned.
But -- we also met a transwoman who had heard about our protest, and who self-ID'd as a woman, but who I now think was probably an Autogynophile. This person was not at all interested in physically transitioning, but always wanted access to the women-only spaces; and that creeped us out.
This person was also frequently trying to get us into agreeing that one didn't have to have their penis removed in order to be a woman; and trying to engage my two trans friends in other protests that had nothing to do with ours. It was completely baffling at the time; but now, I think this person sounds very much like the Autogynophiles being discussed in this video.
When this person couldn't get my trans friends interested in other unrelated protests, this person stopped showing up at ours, and we were fine with that; because it seemed evident that this person wasn't really here to be supportive of OUR protest, but just to leech off the free food and lodgings (which we all took turns providing) and trying to insert his/her cause into ours.
Which was creepy.
Oh yes, the more skeptical “true” (type 1) trans call them transtrenders. One of my friends who is a lesbian in her thirties declared herself nonbinary a couple of years ago and is heading towards full on trans. She’s ROGD. A great deal of it is politically motivated though she won’t admit it, since she was an obsessive trans advocate for years. She’s also had herself diagnosed with autism and went from being an extroverted performance artist to complaining about meltdowns and panic attacks and social anxiety every day on the internet. Within two weeks of her diagnosis she was suddenly the biggest (and most ill informed) autism advocate. Social contagion affects vulnerable individuals first, and she has a long history of problems.
What I like best about Benjamin as an interviewer is that he's so good at LISTENING. He rarely interrupts the speaker and when he does it's always to ask thoughtful and pertinent questions. Good job Ben :)
Thanks you, I do my best! And may there never be a need for you to change your name to STOPBENjammietime.
@@BenjaminABoyce
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I actually got tears in my eyes when he spoke about natal women wanting to become gay men. That's me. That's exactly me. To a far greater extent when I was a teenager, but I still feel it now. Holy shit, I didn't know that that, specifically, was a real thing.
@sonoki82 With that tongue she could date a masculine-presenting transgender lesbian with no problem. That is almost half the population.
Good grief, only the third comment and already the hysteria is starting. Someone was nice to you and you wished you were compatible. I"m glad you got over it but don't feed the hysteria.
It is not surprising that it is a real thing - just look at all the slash-fic. Mostly male-male, mostly written and read by women.
@@Teddypally ...what? What do you mean, someone was nice to me? And how does recognition that it's a real thing feed the hysteria?
@sonoki82 o.o it happens?
8:40. In cultures outside the West and particularly the Anglosphere, type 3 gd or ROGD remains extremely rare. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a socially motivated contagion rather than anything innate.
Is there a doubt in your mind that people like this professor are the ones who cause it?
@@Teddypally definitely not. Bailey has impeccable integrity. If you're referring to Littman, I'm familiar with the paper in question. It's solid.
@@RodFleming-World
He has integrity therefore the paper is intelligent? I'm glad you find the paper solid but I don't trust your opinion.
@@Teddypally tant pis
@@Teddypally by teaching and researching in a university setting? So do cancer researchers cause cancer?
Thank you so much for doing these interviews. I really think it would help everyone involved if we could spread awareness of the actual science behind what is going on. Far too many people are confused and questioning and being taken advantage of by activists right now.
I like J. Michael Bailey! Please get him back and expand more on male homosexuality, he has so much knowledge that rarely gets talked about and thats his true expertise.
11:25 James who ?
I don’t necessarily agree that porn is totally “harmless”. Clinics have been seeing higher and higher numbers of porn addiction and ED in young men. Also what about the comment that Dr Blanchard made in another video...how many autogynephilic men are obsessed with cute anime stuff or anime porn. Harmless? I don’t know. But him mentioning it, seemed to imply so.
Fascinating interview with Dr. Bailey! Thank God for geniuses like Dr. Bailey.
Twenty years ago I thought (without knowing anything about any of this) that crossdressers and transvestites as having a paraphilia of self-love without ever having read a thing about them. Then I read a couple of articles and saw a documentary about crossdressers and transvestites (always males, never females) having clubs and getting together in some sorts of conventions, to enjoy dressing up and going out in public to be looked at by others. This is something they longed to do most of all, to dress up as females, and be looked at by others. In fact, didn't 60 MInutes do a piece on one of those crossdresser/transgender conventions?
Anyway, in one of those programs I realized that were in love with discussing their female clothing, their female wigs, their female bras, etc. They idolize the clothing, the hair, the makeup, and it seemed to me horrifically shallow, and just horrific in general.
Nowadays they no longer need conventions. Now they demand to be seen as real women, the real thing, nothing fake. The last thing they want is to be seen as some weird hetero males who are attracted to dressing up as females and are in love with female clothing, makeup, etc., despite being heterosexual (for example, like Bruce Jenner), and yet that's exactly what they are - males pretending to be real women.
I can somewhat understand that some people with paraphilias might want to exercise these paraphilias and be taken seriously, though it sounds totally outrageous to me. However, as a woman, I can't lie, it seemed extremely weird to me twenty years ago, and it seems doubly weird to me now. Why does it seem doubly weird now? I suppose it's because now they're constantly in the public eye and I see that they look like males trying to look like females, and, even more important, they are insisting that we put our eyes on hold, and play along. (I'm guessing - not a mind reader).
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Wow, what a discussion. I'm glad you are bringing to light such taboo controversial topics. People suffering from gender dysphoria and Autogynephilia (and other types of philias) need help and won't be able to get this help if people are too scared to discuss it. In the face of hostile aggressive and sometimes violent trans activists both of you are extremely brave to even dare go near the topic of transgenderism.
I don't think either of them have gotten rape threats or death threats the way JK Rowling, Kathleen Stock, Helen Staniland, Maria Maclachlan, and others have. Benjamin interviews people on all sides of this issue. I believe Michael has gotten hate b/c of his book. Stonewall, that horrible organization that has betrayed LGB people (& people w/ gender dysphoria) put up an article titled, "Autogynephilia is a Transphobic Trope." So, yeah, lots of luck getting through to people who are being spoon fed what to think by Stonewall. The autogynephilic hetero men & opportunistic perverts who just want access to vulnerable women & children or just want to sexually harass & terrorize women are the ones behind this movement. The college students & other young people, esp. women, are just useful idiots to them, and these narcissistic men will use ANYONE, - LGB people, people with gender dysphoria, autistic people, gender non-conforming children, hurting teen girls who are prone to social contagion, - anyone, to make their fetish a protected category in society. These are vile people. They spread lies about people, get people fired, get people thrown off social media, & make up "facts" to support their narrative of playing the victim. They are bullies who hide behind a pretense that they are being bullied & gullible progressives believe them. They HATE actual transexuals, like Miranda Yardley, or the autogynephiles like Debbie Hayton or Jenn Smith, all of whom respect women, want to protect children, & defend the rights of women to their own spaces, services, & sex-based rights. The men behind trans ideology, who have huge swaths of society repeating, "Trans women are women," like automotons, don't give a shit about anyone else. These are horrible, horrible people who will sacrifice anyone for their agenda. THEY must be stopped.
There certainly is not enough research on ROGD which makes questioning and acknowledging concerns all the more necessary. Not be shut down by Trans Activists.
This is indeed a heartbreaking situation for the child and close family, particularly in the face of affirming medical practices.
This is exactly the question that’s been going round my head - TIW: such a new thing. Traditionally we’ve always known of transsexual & transvestite men. But women? Not so much.
Transvestite women and the other philias don't exist in women because something goes wrong when the male brain is masculinised in utero. Everyone starts with a female brain, which then is masculinised to a male brain (for males), but for some this processes goes wrong. This is the theory hypothesized by Dr James Cantor.
readu100 that’s fascinating! I’ll need to look further into it. Thanks.
@@shelleyscloud3651 Benjamin's interview with Dr Cantor is on youtube.
readu100 thank you.
readu100 women with cah for example have a high incidence of lesbianism or gender identity issues . Too much testosterone in a female p fetus brain can fucks up her whole life as an adult . Probably the reason for lesbianism of most women is too much testosterone in utero when they were fetuses . Without that excess of testosterone they would have been just normal heterosexual women .
Have you listened to and read anything by Dr. Debra Soh? If you haven’t you should.
I assume you caught these 2 vids?
ua-cam.com/video/8IvedwFfTdk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/DNhn2ufmSVg/v-deo.html
Love her !
Hey Benjamin! Great interview. It's nice that you got Dr. Bailey to cover so many different topics. Autogynephilia is a fascinating phenomenon that sadly flies under the radar of most people due to the efforts of Transwomen "activists" who fear an open and healthy discussion of it.
Any chance that in the not too distant future you can interview Anne Lawrence? Her book "Men trapped in men's bodies" is the most thorough and comprehensive resource on Autogynephilia published so far. As an Autogynephile herself it would be fascinating to get her take on it.
Please go ask Graham Linehan to have her on his channel, too!
@@DonnaBrooks15:40 what is social contagion
Thank you for this amazing interview. The subject of autogynephilia is so little understood by people on either side of the trans debate. Impartial and objective discussion , research and understanding is so difficult. Many who are autogynephiles don't know they are autogynephiles or know anything about the research, I see them led down damaging routes by the trans pushers. Many who object to the trans movement imagine AGP as a shameful fetish of choice rather than an innate sexuality. I'm so grateful to Dr Bailey for his brilliant work, I hope others will come along to continue this work, who are able to see beyond the polarised political ideologies.
He doesn't say it's an innate sexuality, does he? So what is a fetish, according to you, then? Do furries have a fetish while autogynephlic hetero men don't? I'm lesbian & I really resent the idea that society is expected to affirm men wearing womanface b/c it turns them on as if that's the same as feeling attraction for one sex or another or both. You can fantasize about anything you want,- but force others to participate in your fantasy against their will 24/7? No. Autogynephilia is NOT a sexual orientation.
@@DonnaBrooks Hi Donna,
Gosh , I dont really remember leaving this comment but happy to discuss with you - I might have to go back and rewatch the episode .
For one I really agree with you , I don't think society as a whole or you individually should be expected to affirm men wearing womanface as women, they are not, and personally I think fetishes should be in the bedroom not outside of it. I think when I said innate sexuality I was trying to say (rather clumsily) that the sexual desire in an AGP man is I believe not entirely nurtured (by society or internet or upbringing or whatever) but in part nature. I'm not trying to equate AGP to homosexuality sorry if that is how my comment sounded , they are entirely different. I think what I was trying to say is that there is something going on with AGP that is deeper than a modern affectation.
How we as a society deal with AGP I suspect we might probably agree on. I'm very critical of gender nonsense and blokes in frocks are exactly that blokes in frocks, but I think maybe the blokes in frocks need some help somehow and I wonder if the likes of Micheal Baily can assist in helping them .
I wasn't 100% sure that "locationization" was a word, as it sounds like something someone would blurt out when they are fumbling for the proper term. I did Google it though, and since "locationize" is apparently a word, I suppose locationization is as well. So you're safe this time Ben, but watch yourself, us grammar nazis are always lurking.
Oh, they are!
Daytwa Qua “...us grammar nazis...”? Ughhhhh...
It’s “WE grammar nazis.” “WE”. 😳
I love all of this
Tbh I rather like the grammar nazis. English isn't my first language, so I appreciate being corrected when my grammar isn't accurate. Well -- as long as they don't say something like, "It's THEIR, not THERE, you idiot!" 😂
Interesting that in your more recent video discussion with Ben the detransitioned male Trans, she speaks about her experience of older Trans women as predators on young (under age) Trans men (teenage girls). I wonder now about the autogynaphilia aspect and how such Trans women often have a history of heterosexual marriage and children. Has the vibe of sleazy old blokes...
You are not the only one who pondered this. The main leaders and instigators of this trans movement are autogynepheliacs
Autogynophilia in men is not a taboo. Ask prostitutes or use a simple internet sex chat and you will find out that many males are like this.
Am I maladaptive? I'm a woman and I hate being chased. I only like to chase. I like cute, clever men who tend to be shy, mysterious and interesting. It seems to me that there is room for more than one sexual strategy among humanity. Perhaps the men I'm attracted to who have rare and valuable attributes like very high iq would be deprived of mating opportunities without women like me. It also seems to me that chastity has been enforced a LOT for women specifically by men over the ages, using shame or even violence. Now there is an evolutionary driver for this I'm sure but if women had no drive to seek their own mates then why would society have spent so much energy castrating women either psychologically or even literally in a physical way ie fgm? Why all the propaganda over more recent times that women don't enjoy sex when actually women can have multiple orgasms in many cases and may desire very long lasting, intimate, intense sex? This man seems to have a very, very limited perception of female sexuality and sensuality. I'll keep watching because I hope he has a better understanding of male sexuality I can put to use in my life.
I'm starting to understand why Bailey (and Blanchard) are so hated. The tone when talking about people who don't accept the autogynophilic label is really patronising and pathologising.
I actually seldom pause to write a comment, but now I just had to: "assigned at birth" is a phrase that has historically been mostly used by intersex folks. I can understand Benjamin not being aware of this, but Bailey should absolutely know this, and it irks me that he doesn't bring it up.
I don't know the state of conversation between trans-intersex communities (haven't looked much at it in ten years), but I find it disturbing that an expert in the field just sidesteps it in favour of armchair-diagnosing "activists".
I actually haven't been "listening to trans activists" - at least not for the last ten years or so, and before that only fleetingly. But yes, I was vaguely aware of this usage - one might think it is simply co-opting a term, but I find the history behind it far more interesting. It really doesn't have anything to do with those "gender is purely a social construct" -loonies.
As for your link, oh dear. Sorry, not touching that with a barge pole.
Nowadays trans (not intersex) everywhere use AMAB and AFAB to distinguish themselves from "cis" people. It's absurd. Should be "observed and recorded male/female at birth."
Should he sidestep reality simply because AGPs get offended? It's a true phenomenon, not a made up slur. He's actually quite clinical in his assessment. And it is a pathology of sorts - it certainly leads to treatments, often lifelong administration of synthetic hormones and even life-altering sterilizing surgeries.
@E S what is wrong with "Born male" or Born Female" ? For 99.8% of the species it's perfectly accurate.
I was born male and if we are talking about objective reality I am still genetically male despite what alterations I have made to my endocrine system, surgical modification, social role or legal adjustments to my status. The truth doesn't change and by owning it it cannot be used against me.
You are correct it is a pathology but the commitment to hormones need not be life long for males as so many state. An MtF once they have had GRS could in late middle age opt to cease HRT and just go through the equivalent of menopause and many do.
@@amandagrimes4138 Interesting question re "born ". As you say it is accurate in most cases. I think the tendency to not want to use it comes from wanting to be inclusive of the "fuzzy edge". In a not too distant future maybe genetic (&other) testing will be so routine that it will "born male/female" will be a very definitive statement. IE Caster Semenya would know from day one she had a choice to make.
Very interesting re HRT for MtF, thank you! (I presume that's is only true for people post-orchidectomy? Or does testes if blocked and counter-acted by female HRT stop producing androgenizing amounts of testosterone?)
Also, what about osteoporosis? And are transwomen (like natal women) at higher risk of breast cancer if using HRT for decades and decades?
@Asp Tuber I did say post GRS (Genital Reconstruction Surgery) . Yes they are susceptible to all the same downsides such as osteoporosis.
I wrote a piece for allabouthsts.com on the risks of long term HRT use
allabouthsts.com/risk-analysis-of-long-term-hormone-replacement-therapy-in-mtf-transsexuals/
Excellent interview! Thank you.
I think the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria cases are kind of "born again". They essentially get to start over with a new identity and a new beginning. Their previous sins and failings are washed away, and they're given a initial status boost as incentive. It's actually quite like being born again in a traditional religious sense. I'd be interested in seeing some research to see if teenage girls who suddenly decide they're actually boys tend to be lower status.
I know this is an old comment. I’ve been on a spree with these videos though. Many with ROGD are white, middle/upper middle class. I think you are right with the “born again” thing, but many are absolving their “privilege” of their higher social class.
@@21stcenturyschizoidgal71 I think that’s a good point. When a new social hierarchy based on victim status is established, it makes sense that a number of people would desire to climb the hierarchy by becoming a marginalized group member.
@@21stcenturyschizoidgal7117:20 Meredith Chivers
Benjamin, I’m glad you’re interviewing psychologists on this topic but I’ve heard two on your show now talk about the “false memory” syndrome and influx of multiple personality phenomenon as being just a mysterious fad. This is worth your digging into. You will discover that the fields of psychology and psychiatry were integral in the development of mind control techniques that very intentionally caused DID (the modern term for multiple personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder). Of course they don’t want fingers pointed at them which is why they claim their fad status.
Sounds very interesting, where can you point me to do research that MPD and dissociative identity disorder are behind pychology and psychiatry?
@@QueryBuns if you are still interested look up the article “multiple personality; mental disorder, myth or metaphor” from psychology today and then follow first link in the article to read “when psychiatry battled the devil”
@@brittybee661516:20 have you read Ray Blanchard
Wait a sec..at about 20 minutes he blithely asserts that women don't "go after" their erotic "targets". because evolution.?..I'd say some of us can discern and be attracted to good mates.
What he's saying is there's no sexual component to it like there is with males.
and yes talking nonsense . Chivers herself seems to suggest otherwise
They dont like sexual motivation. Their whole life moves around sex but they dont want you to tell it( narcisistic injury.
Hey Benjamin!
I really like your videos about this topic!
You should also check out the link between aspergers/autism and gender dysphoria. I'm pretty sure that a large portion of people with gender dysphoria are misdiagnosed and in reality have aspergers/autism. (I was one of them but I was able to desist transitioning early enough before I found out about that link)
I was surprised to hear him say that the ease of access to pornography is not as harmful as we think. That's a very dismissive, male-centric point-of-view. Women are frequently coerced into performing appalling acts for their boyfriends or husbands in order to imitate what the men have seen online. Many of them would be spared this suffering if this matter was more widely acknowledged. It is undeniably a slippery slope -- the internet has helped show us how easily men and even women become desensitized to sexual content, seeking out more depraved imagery to feel satisfied. To ignore that is incredibly damaging to everyone involved.
👏👏👏💯
I think he meant it doesn’t effect male sexual attractions. I would agree, as a man. He didn’t say anything about how women are portrayed.
Women are just fine reading erotic fiction or sexualizing mens bodies for their own pleasure tho. I work with a group of women and whenever a hot man comes in you would think we were in a locker room by some of the sexual, sexist, misandric things that are said. No one ever mentions this. Only what men say about women. Most people don’t even know the word misandry!
Something that is confusing this issue, is that gender is inherently an emergent expression of socialized sex differences. It is mind plus body. That's why I'm not so sure we can make meaningful distinctions between child-onset gender dysphoria and rapid-onset dysphoria that comes on later in life, in terms of legitimacy. Both are the reaction of a consciousness to perceived sex and gender expectations. I don't think it should make a difference in its validity when the dysphoria begins or if it's "social contagion". It's all social at the root. I think there is an unspoken attitude that rapid-onset isn't as real. I agree with the doctor here that ideology needs to be out of research on this.
What if rapid-onset in girls is a psychological reaction to misogyny? Does that make it less real? Less deserving of transition? If how one is treated by society is unjust and limiting, and a person has a good reason to believe they'd be treated differently if they transition, who are we to stop them? On some level, it's like extreme body modification. If you had prominent birthmarks on my face and arms, causing people to mistreat me, and a medical technique could remove them, anybody would.
As a.woman in STEM fields, I can appreciate how deeply one could just want to be a man just to be more at peace while they exist doing things they want to do.
The issue that I think is most important is just how to resolve these disruptive feelings. Permanent body modification should be a last resort after counseling, but at a certain point, these are free beings who should be able to work out a solution that makes them enjoy life. Informed consent, which has age requirements, is reasonable. Since most rapid-onset is female, and testosterone is so effect at transformation, the medical community should be able to require age and time to ensure it's the best approach.
Perhaps if there was more acceptance of gender modification, we could be firmer on the metaphysics of it all. "No, you were not assigned a gender at birth... you ARE this sex, but you are welcome to modify your presentation."
My general feeling is it’s considered less legitimate because it ultimately never existed before this trend. And surely people going on hormones, becoming infertile etc is a problem.
@@crossroads67015:26 why use that word ?
Thanks for undertaking this important work Benjamin. Are you able to share on here the paper on Furries that the Professor mentions at the end of this interview?
12:55 I wonder if this form is related to narcissism? It'd certainly seem to explain why the most egregious behavior comes out of this type of trans.
39:39 Steel-manning the other side's arguments for a moment... Trans activism attempts to use many of the same arguments that worked for homosexuality. Nomosexuality gained a lot of acceptance under the notion it was innate and unchangeable, but trans being a social contagion would mean it's not innate, and so they are left without that valuable argument. Similarly, one old fear about homosexuality was that it could somehow spread, and destigmatizing it was based in that notion: like hey, just because this dude is gay, doesn't mean it'll rub off on your vulnerable children, so calm down! However, if trans really can "rub off", well, again, one less tool in their toolbox for securing tolerance.
A much over used term? What is the definition?
This was a very very good discussion !!!
Did he really denied the influence of porn????? Does he know of the existence of hypno sissy porn?? Has he actually listened to the guys trying to quit their ADICTION and the impact it's had on their lives. I have friends going through therapy. They can't even get an erection anymore.
Hypno sissy doesn’t cause autogynephilia. It simply allows men with AGP to discover it. If you put sissy porn in front of most men they will not find it arousing. I tried it myself and laughed.
Women not having fetishes is news to me.
@T im confused so if they have multiple fetishes than they stop being fetishes ?
I think he means paraphilias.
LOL, Ben, your reaction at @1:05:10 when he told you about his new paper on Furries cracked me up....Is there something you want to tell us?
He wants to tell us he'd love to cover it in a new video!
That would be an interesting video. I wonder how old or recent the Furry trend is. . . Is it relatively new, like sudden-onset gender dysphoria? Or old, like child-onset gender dysphoria?
zxy atiywariii People on 4chan were mocking furries with “Yiff in hell, furfags!” memes since at least 2005. It looks like the word was already in use by 2000. So furries have been around since at least the 90s. I had forgotten about them since I stopped visiting forums over a decade ago. I was surprised to see that they’ve had some kind of resurgence lately as the butt of jokes on the new social media apps. There’s always been more anti-furries than actual furries.
@@moderneremiteofwonder543718:30 sexual arousal is predictable?
@@zxyatiywariii818:50 I'm interested in the lesbian themes
If I had to pick one of Benjamin's interviews to recommend to someone else, this might just be the one.
AmZing work yet again!
BENJAMIN. BLESS YOU.
CHRIST loves you
This was surprisingly interesting.
"Impossible for a man to reroute a sexual orientation"
24:40 silly point. Women are obsessed with being sexy
check out the man who would be queen if you're trans or gay or just interested in these issues. "speaking as a gay man" (lol) i was surprised by how often i would be reading the book and find myself saying, "oh yeah, i never really noticed that but that lines up with my experience."
it's hard to find physical copies but a kindle version is available for $10.
You can still get it for free via Bailey's website. I'll let you do the research
You can get a free PDF of it from this Dr. He sent one to me years ago and said I could pass it on.
@@blackmarketgoodness5715 last I looked it was linked to from his faculty page. However, maybe people could give him a break and spring for the Kindle ya know...
It sounds really interesting!
Better idea. Read Whipping Girl by Julia Serano
I appreciate, Benjamin, your asking the question about women's concerns for safety. Bailey didn't to be interested or even care about what girls and women suffer as a result. He certainly showed no understanding of how children and women suffer from being filmed in porn videos. About three-quarters of the way through this interview, I'd had enough of Bailey. I turned it off. However, thank you for your efforts and your questions.
i wanna see the study
Awesome! Thank you! Everybody should watch this.
The Epoch of Benjamin - Chapter 6
Benjamin was on cloud nine. Here was Meghan Murphy in person, chattering and grooming herself in his passenger seat as he drove her from the airport to the conference at Evergreen. His lips still tingled from the greeting smooch that had lingered a bit overlong. He suspected the dumb smile on his face betrayed the lusts bubbling through him.
The First International Conference on Trans/TERF Detente was going to be a blast, thought Benjamin. The two years it had taken to convert the empty dormitories to have 312 different gendered toilets was going to pay off in big way. Exploring Meghan's cotton ceiling, for example...
Benjamin's reverie sputtered as his car died and rolled to a stop. Damn Tesla trash!
The tow truck arrived quickly and the driver, "Angel" according to the app, appeared to be a rough and tumble sort of wammin. Meghan seemed relieved to see her and quipped, An Angel here to rescue us!
I'm only half-angel on my dad's side, laughed Angel in a surprisingly husky voice. That makes me a Nephilim - half Angel, half human, according to Hebrew lore.
Benjamin saw where this was going. His dreams of a night of passion began to fall apart.
Meghan's gleeful preening came to a halt. So you work on autos? - Yes.
And your gender identify is... - A guy.
And you were born a.... Nephilim. Yes!
All the color drained from Meghan's face as Angel continued: So you could say that, overall, I'm an Auto Guy Nephilim!
Meghan's head exploded.
They didn't touch in hsts hardly at all
it was very interesting to listen about sexuality and gender
can someone tell me, what's the site mentioned in 41:54? english is not my native language, thanks
You could do the sequel to Woody Allen's Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask
The blog is suspended by wordpress. He iS SO RIGHT ABOUT CENSORSHIP.
20:00 it is contextual?
Also known as degree of sexual fetishes and kinks.
I don't see my own experiences sitting well with any model of gender dysphoria I'm come across so far. Much of the AGP model resonates, but much doesn't too. Same with mainstream transgenderism ideas. Are there alternative models for trying to understand myself? I just want to live the happiest life I can, but find that my gender/sexuality is troublesome in that regard (though other things are more so).
Are you still struggling with gender/sexuality issues?
@@TriteNight1218 Yes. My sexuality and gender identity are odd.
Clicking this vidja has put Paul Jo wtsons videos in my up next bar. God damn lame ai. Love ya Ben
That was fantastic!
After a few videos about human sexuality i would rather be an animal. We are filthy stupidly complicated animals
Gina Repetto true. No mammal has problem with being born male or being born female . They just acts according to their sex. And they live without all these bullshits
I believe the difference with female arousal may have to due with the fact that they only have a true sex drive during ovulation when they get a sudden spike of testosterone(which they only get during ovulation). They can be aroused anytime through sexual activity(women require foreplay before sex, unlike men, is the folk understanding) and so on.
But women aren't uncontrollably stimulated by thoughts or images and sounds(pornography) as men are, who have stable amounts of testosterone. And clearly differently wired brains.
Women who are given testosterone as HRT, often report on their minds being "overwhelmed," with sexual thoughts which they have little control over, or that pop into their mind with minimal stimulation. Of course, any man, and especially younger men, will find this unremarkable. testosterone tricks women's minds and bodies into thinking they are ovulating and in need of having sex so that they get pregnant and pass on their genes.
The fact is that women, biologically, do not need to be able to be aroused at anytime, like men. They only ovulate during a certain time in their cycle. It would be wasted energy to be able to be aroused at any moment at the drop of a hat, like men are. And thus, evolutionarily disadvantagous.
Your guest doesn't seem like a researcher, he strikes me as a stereotyper. He collects data and forms stereotypes. He doesn't craft or test hypotheses. He then publishes the stereotypes and waits for agreement.
When he actually starts presenting arguments, it's eye-opening. If there isn't' agreement then he says deniers are closet cases (privileged), are wrong (listen and believe) and are cruel (shaming) in suppressing (oppression) and denying (unequal rights) those with autogynephilia (patriarchy), are in denial (internalize misogyny) and that he's got oodles (not empirical) of private correspondence (anecdotal evidence) from people always thought of themselves that way (identity) with the stereotype (victims of patriarchy) he postulates, saying they never knew this is what they had before (woke) and they're so happy to finally understand themselves (victimhood) as evidence he's correct. He concludes one has to study (funding) it (gender studies) more because one cannot help them (achieve equality) if one denies it happens (listen and believe).
No need to wonder anymore how feminism took root so quickly in academia.
Dang, that's a very interesting take on it! Thank you.
I wasn't expecting to come away from this understanding his critics (which I mainly read 8-10-15 years ago, haven't been keeping up much, and don't even remember much of it), I was fully expecting to finally hear a more nuanced take on autogynophilia and the rest of it from the horse's mouth.
I'm was trying to be charitable and put it down to me just not groking his communication style, but I think you are right on many points. He really doesn't seem to be interested in exploring whether his categorisations are correct, partly correct, wrong, incomplete or even useful. They are just proclaimed, and that's that.
I hate borrowing post modern buzz words, but I really feel his ideas are in need of some problematising. I also finds his uninterest in FtM people very puzzling - we might well be in the midst of a social epidemic right now (interesting in its own right), but FtM did exist long before the Internet.
I wonder about the logistics, though?
I've long been an MRVS (medical research volunteer subject) and I wonder, how would he do research to evaluate his hypotheses?
For instance -- I'm usually well-compensated, because it's difficult for researchers to find female volunteers who are of childbearing age but who are also at zero risk of pregnancy. That's why so many research studies were previously done mostly on men; and why women like me are usually well-paid for participation.
But there's such a small number of any sort of transpeople as a percentage of the population; and from this already-small number, he'd then have to find the ones who would be willing to participate. And he isn't funded by pharmas nor by DoD; so there wouldn't be much he could offer to entice them to volunteer; they'd need to be willing to do so to support the research. I've done a few studies where I wasn't paid because they couldn't afford it; but there aren't very many people who will.
@@zxyatiywariii8
He'd need to know how to craft a falsifiable hypothesis before he can craft one and then test it. I don't think he knows how to do that.
Matthew Kopp - That sounds like a very dramatic proclamation. You were harassed and wanted to kill yourself because of being bisexual? Well given I’ve looked at gay porn search volumes in every country in the world, and they do not exceed 2-3% of searches everywhere, the prevalence of bisexuality is lower than you think.
Porn doesn’t cause harm to society?? With no mention of women until Benjamin asks. Jesus wtf
13:00 min AGP
Joe Rogen Brought me here. Hopefully Dr. Bailey will be future guest on Joe Rogen Podcast with Dr. Debra Soh. -2O2O 🔋🔵🌠🌠🌠🌠🌠
Really? So he can completely deny that porn is harmful in front of millions of Rogan bros? Clever
I’ve enjoyed a number of your interviews, but I find the interviewee comparing pedophilia to LGB, and T, highly offensive and dangerous. They are not near in the same ball park. These should never be discussed within the same context- not least because it gives credence to pedos. That is child abuse born out of power dynamics, not the same as adult consenting humans who harm no one by loving each other. I wished you pushed him more on this point.
I don’t think Bailey ever lumped them together. He is talking about atypical sexual attractions.
Another one! .GIF
Why. doesLGBTcommunity ignore these studies? Why isnt this theory present in public debate?
I’m a gay man and I have a lot of science interested friends. I tell them about a lot of them and they find it fascinating. I can tell you, most gay men don’t subscribe to SJW ideologies. Most of them usually enjoy controversial stances and topics.
@@crossroads670 im glad to know there are people who are open to debate on scientific issues.
@@oliviamaynard9372 - Yeah, unfortunately the whole movement gets hijacked by activists who are often 'transtrender' types. Now acceptance of LGBT has been falling (which they blame on Trump) but it's not just in USA, but also in European countries. There is a caricature of what transgender people are created on the back of this and people who say it's all fluid and people who want to be transpecies and 'autism gender' and the like. I've seen people say it's declining but that is so not true, I looked at the number of students identifying as non-binary in my University data (it's public) and it went from being consistently 1-2 people a year from 2010-2018 and then suddenly its 20 people in 2019.
58 min
Has anyone watching this video seem Contrapoints' autogynephilia video? (ua-cam.com/video/6czRFLs5JQo/v-deo.html) I'm curious to know what others thought. (Mostly, I thought she twisted Bailey's words a lot)
a guy who group of study was based of tailand hookers and based his experience to portray all of transwoman, failed the scrutany (as any study has to go trough) of other researchers is not going to get that far aside from some fringe groups online
Her sexuality is more or less based on what feeds her vanity of self worth.
Freaking good interview... we all know what's causing this, and it is feminism... you have to be blind not to see it...
@@es8059 🤔🤔 i should check that out
I see his bad arguments as being the cause of the spread of bad ideas, one of which is feminism. He paved the way.
@@Daniela-tu4so
Yes. Bad arguments pave the way for bad conclusions. If one promotes bad arguments to further one's conclusions, the acceptance of such bad arguments is easily used to further other conclusions. Not just feminism, the ways to all sorts of bad ideas are paved this way.
Try it out, switch in anything you like, Marxism, socialism, antifascism.
@@Teddypally Who's and which bad arguments?
First of all I was not arguing with anybody I was stating a fact. This is a global issue , so feminism in general is global problem. I watch the news on Australia, Britain, Sweden, Germany. Feminism is being used as a tool , weapon, Shield to pushing a certain type of deology. It is a religion, to push socialism. There's a war going on, the Cold War never ended. This is World War 3 , and the children are the casualties.
Bailey is a pee doh file
It's not autogynophiliak it's autogynophile