Caricatures yes I find it offensive had an awful experience today from an intimidating man who was disguised (very badly) as a fellow woman in makeup; disturbing his treatment of me this happened as I attempted to shop he was the shop assistant il be complaining seemed to think he was untouchable free card these days- not questionable other ppl not able to complain must we accept everything without own opinion even demeaner being so disrespectful rude projecting nastiness I receive a vibe of mysogony .. it’s not right vent over😅
they also embelish stariotypes of falmboyent or gey men....turning them into a joke as well. its no different than the black or yellow face that has existed....other than the fact that poeple are too stupid to see drag for what it is
How wonderful to see someone addressing this matter. I wonder why the other egregious matters that are in vogue these days affecting women particularly - not to mention matters that harm children - never seem to be discussed in the main media.
That's because drag queens don't effect women, or harm children, champ. Blackface however, was used to characterize black American people and subjugate and de-humanize them. Pretty simple really.
I just now came to this because about 6 months ago I saw the black and white minstrels for the first time at 31. Now today I looked into rupaul to figure out why that’s on mtv to find his Supermodel song. Which was impressively well produced I will say, but I had a sudden realization that it has this same strange feeling to it that the black and white minstrels had. She said its best, once you see it u can’t unsee it and it’s shocking to me that the same group of people that would ruin someone’s life over blackface are totally okay with drag…. They’re one and the same.
A great interview. A discussion much needed. I personally doubt motives from drag queens wanting to read to children. Why do they want to do it in drag, they can read stories to kids without being in drag if their motives are only about enjoying reading books to kids. Does being in drag distract the child from following a story line. Perhaps the parents should ask the children after one of these events what their thoughts are because thats where the focus is intended. Just as a heads up teachers welcome just about anyone to take over the class to give them a break.
You might be surprised just how naturally litte kids accept people that older generations despise because they disapprove of how people that are different look and dress, unconventional and are not mainstream. Little kids are not judgmental and see things more simply - their prejudices come latter and are learned, their innocence corrupted and destroyed.
Andrea Todd. What other reasons would transvestites have for reading stories to little kids? Be clear, your amongst friends. Children are not generally judgmental, but often inquisitive if they don't feel their safety and well being are being threatened. If it's abuse your implying then statistically it's more likely to be a family member or a close and trusted family friend who is abusive. The one time piece of public information advertising from a few decades ago headlined the message: "Stranger Danger". Now, while strangers, unknown to Children themselves, can potentially be a source of abuse and of parental concern for their children, it was latter revealed that an abuse was more likely to come from someone they already knew.
@@brucegibbins3792 yes, they do see things more simply....adults know they do, however children don't they are kids.... therein is the problem, we need to guard what they are exposed to until they are age appropriate for any activity. The fact that some adults don't recognise this is also a problem.
Drag isn't as offensive as black face because those who control the institutions of social opinion formers want us to think that! That's why it's pushed relentlessly through the media 24/7
There is a direct logical line from 60s "free love" and the breakdown of the family unit to drag queens (and much, much worse) today. Connect the dots.
What you refer to as "Drag Queens, have been part of some societies of many decades, when it comes to modern behaviour, then it's all been done before even during the times of ancient Rome and Greece. Woman dressed as men, looking especially fine to please their lesbian lovers.
Agree totally. But there's something important missing from this. There are no longer any unironic female cabarets. This was what the drag shows were based on: gorgeous actual women performing on stage. There's a cultural need for this. Strip shows are all that's left and they're just porn rather than baudy eroticism. Whatever irony is supposed to remain intact in drag shows is now decoupled from anything we can currently tie it to. Welcome to the soulless emptiness of the post modern world. Deconstruct everything and all that's left is this.
I’m here asking this question typed it in not really expecting a result before I watch I want to thank you for addressing this important issues seem to be off limits to even discuss thankyou let’s not sacrifice womens rights I say love & respect to women I don’t like parodys disguised as something else or mysogeny
Terrific guest. I too remember the Māori drag queens of late Seventies Wellington, Sean. Why don't we ask charming David Cumin and toothy lawyer Stephen Franks? They certainly have a connection....
its the same thing...... drag shows were created as a means of eroticising cross dressing,and poking fun of both gay and woman stariotypes by turning them int caricatures...ever notices how dragshows are ALWAYS overtly sexual and HEAVILY exadurrated on the stariotypes? the same can be said as blackface in the 1920s....it caricaturized an entire race of people to make them look like bumbling jokes and exadurrated stereotypes...it was ignorent when they did it and its just as ignorent now when dragshows do it to gays and woman.
We hear drag in libraries is diversity and inclusion. Rubbish. Where are the lesbians or gays doing storytime? Or people of colour? Or disabled? Or sports people? Or refugees? Or Māori or Samoan or Syrian?
I don't find blackface offensive at all (unless it is intended to denigrate - eg. Al Jolson style). OTOH I find drag quite offensive outside very limited events.
That was it's entire purpose champ. There IS no other form of blackface. How could you find drag more offensive than blackface, that was used to subjugate/de-humanize black American people for decades? What the living fuck have you for brains?
for me drag entertainment helped tear down barriers that were once built on homophobic attitudes of ignorance and intollerance ( based on loving church brainwashing) with great witty humour and funny inuendo. I never once left a show with burning heamaroids or saw any drag abused children. I did however see children just dragged up by feral low lives who shouldn't be allowed to breed. They weren't inteligent enough or sober long enough to even read at libraries yet the woke place them in the 'protected species' category so it is not 'polite PC woke enough' to discuss their unfortunate deprived lower socio economic circumstances and would have you believe that you are going straight to hell for daring to raise the topic which might even be seen as Racsist Maori Bashing
I read losts of articles while watching this, and it seems that drag queens are not mocking women - they are gay men putting on the wigs and the make-up, not to hide themselves but to reveal it ('he isn’t impersonating a woman, he’s using tools traditionally seen as feminine to express himself. His point is that we are still hung up on stereotypes about what women wear'). Some drag queens do make misogynistic jokes and some of the vocabulary some of them use, is offensive. I've never been to a drag show nor watched the shows about it, but I don't see the problem if the parents are okay with it and there is no crime. "Blackface is about white people putting on make-up to mock a minority. Drag is about a minority (usually gay men) putting on make-up to express and explore their identity. "
Once upon a time, that may have been true, but it has become too commercial now. It's no longer about 'identity' and more about self gratification and narcicism at the expense of women. It's a product of its time, and the world has moved on. Another example: If it is now considered offensive for straight people to play gay characters in media, why is it acceptable for men to play characatures of women? Both are frequently oppressed globally, so that excuse doesnt fly. If "equality" is the goal, then there is no room for hypocrisy.
Yvonne makes a very good point about drag queens being caricatures, lampooning women. They strike me as being deeply misogynistic.
Yep always look like tarts
Yesss parodying real women who are sacred
Caricatures yes I find it offensive had an awful experience today from an intimidating man who was disguised (very badly) as a fellow woman in makeup; disturbing his treatment of me this happened as I attempted to shop he was the shop assistant il be complaining seemed to think he was untouchable free card these days- not questionable other ppl not able to complain must we accept everything without own opinion even demeaner being so disrespectful rude projecting nastiness I receive a vibe of mysogony .. it’s not right vent over😅
they also embelish stariotypes of falmboyent or gey men....turning them into a joke as well.
its no different than the black or yellow face that has existed....other than the fact that poeple are too stupid to see drag for what it is
How wonderful to see someone addressing this matter. I wonder why the other egregious matters that are in vogue these days affecting women particularly - not to mention matters that harm children - never seem to be discussed in the main media.
That's because drag queens don't effect women, or harm children, champ. Blackface however, was used to characterize black American people and subjugate and de-humanize them. Pretty simple really.
I just now came to this because about 6 months ago I saw the black and white minstrels for the first time at 31. Now today I looked into rupaul to figure out why that’s on mtv to find his Supermodel song. Which was impressively well produced I will say, but I had a sudden realization that it has this same strange feeling to it that the black and white minstrels had. She said its best, once you see it u can’t unsee it and it’s shocking to me that the same group of people that would ruin someone’s life over blackface are totally okay with drag…. They’re one and the same.
A great interview. A discussion much needed. I personally doubt motives from drag queens wanting to read to children. Why do they want to do it in drag, they can read stories to kids without being in drag if their motives are only about enjoying reading books to kids. Does being in drag distract the child from following a story line. Perhaps the parents should ask the children after one of these events what their thoughts are because thats where the focus is intended. Just as a heads up teachers welcome just about anyone to take over the class to give them a break.
You might be surprised just how naturally litte kids accept people that older generations despise because they disapprove of how people that are different look and dress, unconventional and are not mainstream. Little kids are not judgmental and see things more simply - their prejudices come latter and are learned, their innocence corrupted and destroyed.
Andrea Todd. What other reasons would transvestites have for reading stories to little kids?
Be clear, your amongst friends.
Children are not generally judgmental, but often inquisitive if they don't feel their safety and well being are being threatened.
If it's abuse your implying then statistically it's more likely to be a family member or a close and trusted family friend who is abusive. The one time piece of public information advertising from a few decades ago headlined the message: "Stranger Danger". Now, while strangers, unknown to Children themselves, can potentially be a source of abuse and of parental concern for their children, it was latter revealed that an abuse was more likely to come from someone they already knew.
What on earth do you think will happen? I've never heard such overtly fearful hyperbole as I have on this issue.
@@brucegibbins3792 yes, they do see things more simply....adults know they do, however children don't they are kids.... therein is the problem, we need to guard what they are exposed to until they are age appropriate for any activity. The fact that some adults don't recognise this is also a problem.
Look whats happening on the Isle of Man
It's not diversity, it's divisiveness.
Children should not be exposed to autogynephilia.
Just as they shouldn't be exposed to "adult" sex toys/aids.
....or to conversative twats.
Men need to stand by these Brave women and protect all children.
Drag isn't as offensive as black face because those who control the institutions of social opinion formers want us to think that! That's why it's pushed relentlessly through the media 24/7
I'm very happy this argument has come out in NZ. Gloria Pervis has been making this point for years. It is offensive period.
Great interview, she was fabulous
There is a direct logical line from 60s "free love" and the breakdown of the family unit to drag queens (and much, much worse) today. Connect the dots.
What you refer to as "Drag Queens, have been part of some societies of many decades, when it comes to modern behaviour, then it's all been done before even during the times of ancient Rome and Greece. Woman dressed as men, looking especially fine to please their lesbian lovers.
I was born in December so I identify as Sagittarius, half man half horse but they still won’t let me shit in the street?
Agree totally. But there's something important missing from this. There are no longer any unironic female cabarets. This was what the drag shows were based on: gorgeous actual women performing on stage. There's a cultural need for this. Strip shows are all that's left and they're just porn rather than baudy eroticism. Whatever irony is supposed to remain intact in drag shows is now decoupled from anything we can currently tie it to. Welcome to the soulless emptiness of the post modern world. Deconstruct everything and all that's left is this.
bring back cabaret!
I’m here asking this question typed it in not really expecting a result before I watch I want to thank you for addressing this important issues seem to be off limits to even discuss thankyou let’s not sacrifice womens rights I say love & respect to women I don’t like parodys disguised as something else or mysogeny
mORRIS DANCERS, NATIVE PEOPLE AND CUSTOM OF eNGLAND HAD TO STOP BLACKFACING BECAUSE IT OFFENDS THOSE NOT OF ENGLAND.
I identify as a blackface! Al Jolson eat your heart out!
Terrific guest. I too remember the Māori drag queens of late Seventies Wellington, Sean.
Why don't we ask charming David Cumin and toothy lawyer Stephen Franks? They certainly have a connection....
Sean interview Karen Nimmo about her raising feminist children article on Stuff... it is horrific.
Great interview.
its the same thing......
drag shows were created as a means of eroticising cross dressing,and poking fun of both gay and woman stariotypes by turning them int caricatures...ever notices how dragshows are ALWAYS overtly sexual and HEAVILY exadurrated on the stariotypes?
the same can be said as blackface in the 1920s....it caricaturized an entire race of people to make them look like bumbling jokes and exadurrated stereotypes...it was ignorent when they did it
and its just as ignorent now when dragshows do it to gays and woman.
Yes.one mocks race, the other mocks females. Blatent Hypocrisy .
Your protecting women's feelings ? You liberal
Great question
Why do more women than men watch a drag show ?
it's called the hivemind
They don't. The audience is primarily men
These are all the issues Speak Up For Women have been raising for abt 5 yrs and media has ignored them.
We hear drag in libraries is diversity and inclusion. Rubbish. Where are the lesbians or gays doing storytime? Or people of colour? Or disabled? Or sports people? Or refugees? Or Māori or Samoan or Syrian?
Whoa, careful, they will be putting on 'normal womens gear' next.
Then where would we be? 🤨
It seems as though they've already beaten you to it. Maybe next time uh?
@@brucegibbins3792 Aw shucks 🤭
Peak Comedy, couldn't write it better!
I don't find blackface offensive at all (unless it is intended to denigrate - eg. Al Jolson style). OTOH I find drag quite offensive outside very limited events.
I quite agree with this, I think black face isn't wrong if it's done tastefully and not to hurt anyone. But drag is offensive to me.
That was it's entire purpose champ. There IS no other form of blackface. How could you find drag more offensive than blackface, that was used to subjugate/de-humanize black American people for decades? What the living fuck have you for brains?
@@tammie1078how Is drag offensive?
Glory to Russia 🇷🇺 from all the free thinking people from New Zealand 🇳🇿.
No good can ever come from celebrating mental illnesses with drag shows/story time and pride parades.
Who made the law Blackface is offensive. Would not happen to be those advocating contemporary profit would it?
If I thought you were an actual person, I'd say that that that is the stupidest most ignorant question I've ever heard.
Drug using male fetish u mean..each to there own but keep it at the club..theres only one reason they want to normalise it
It is just as offensive.
Oh, lighten up. What about drag kings?
Who the hell is Yvonne van Dongen
for me drag entertainment helped tear down barriers that were once built on homophobic attitudes of ignorance and intollerance ( based on loving church brainwashing) with great witty humour and funny inuendo. I never once left a show with burning heamaroids or saw any drag abused children. I did however see children just dragged up by feral low lives who shouldn't be allowed to breed. They weren't inteligent enough or sober long enough to even read at libraries yet the woke place them in the 'protected species' category so it is not 'polite PC woke enough' to discuss their unfortunate deprived lower socio economic circumstances and would have you believe that you are going straight to hell for daring to raise the topic which might even be seen as Racsist Maori Bashing
So mocking and demeaning biological women helps you? Are you serious?
Drag is satire at flamboyancy in the community. Someone has to put a stop to this republican conspiracy circus.
I miss the black & white minstral show...now phantomine is under attack
Your username is very apt.
MISANDRY IS MORE PREVALENT. GEORGE AND A MAN,STOP WITH THIS AFFIRMING.
I read losts of articles while watching this, and it seems that drag queens are not mocking women - they are gay men putting on the wigs and the make-up, not to hide themselves but to reveal it ('he isn’t impersonating a woman, he’s using tools traditionally seen as feminine to express himself. His point is that we are still hung up on stereotypes about what women wear'). Some drag queens do make misogynistic jokes and some of the vocabulary some of them use, is offensive.
I've never been to a drag show nor watched the shows about it, but I don't see the problem if the parents are okay with it and there is no crime.
"Blackface is about white people putting on make-up to mock a minority. Drag is about a minority (usually gay men) putting on make-up to express and explore their identity. "
Once upon a time, that may have been true, but it has become too commercial now. It's no longer about 'identity' and more about self gratification and narcicism at the expense of women. It's a product of its time, and the world has moved on.
Another example: If it is now considered offensive for straight people to play gay characters in media, why is it acceptable for men to play characatures of women? Both are frequently oppressed globally, so that excuse doesnt fly.
If "equality" is the goal, then there is no room for hypocrisy.
Blackface is the problem that people should have (especially with their kids) not drag
No, it's not a global trend, you just live in an anglo-saxon bubble.