Why has Classic been so fun for me?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Time to go deep on the experience so far and what has drawn me into this old ass game.
----------
Gear: shop.spreadshi...
Twitter: @Preachgaming
Live Stream - twitch.tv/preachlfw
The Good Book - / preachgaming
---------
I've heard it best described as this "Classic is a safari, you are dropped right in the middle and told the story is in that direction, go find it. Retail is a theme-park ride and arms and legs must be kept within the vehicle at all times".
It's literally the same theme park, only harder, more community focused and generally better made.
that's pretty on point tbh. I love retail but fuck i wish they'd let the barriers fall sometimes so the shit can hit the fan
@@exorder2005 classic harder?? HAHHAHAHAHAH
@@setmason1510 retail raids and dungeons are harder. Every single other thing is harder in classic.
+1 for getting asmongold rekd
Did Preach have pocket heals though? Did Asmond? I would like to see them legit 1v1 duel.
(like the avatar picture btw OP :D)
@@Label07 Asmon always has healers. He's just a terrible PvPer
yeah but they're both just lvl 30 derps. want to see them duel at level 60 with full tier 14 pvp gear
asmon has been carried through the game for 14 years... doesnt know how to keybind??? or fear, disarm or use his shouts... he literally just kept spaming the execute button and asking why he was losing. I honestly cant tell at this point why he even plays Games because he is just a terrible gamer. He is a smart person, but sucks so damn hard at games
@@TheRobochicken5494 Not sure that I can agree on him being smart or terrible gamer. He is an average dude. Sometimes he behaves like a total dickhead and an idiot - like any other regular person would do, so it's really fine. That said, at the same time he can be entertaining to watch, because like i said - he is an average dude and if you do watch him you know what you are getting yourself into. I don't use twitch, but I do check out reuploads of his streams to youtube every now and then.
It's so damn cathartic having all of these people like Blizzard, the general forum fanboys, and even more reasonable people like Mike finally realize what we've been saying for years. It's not even about classic, it's much bigger than that. The beautiful irony of it all is that these QoL changes that people keep touting as the saviors of WoW and that the lack of will make classic unplayable are the reason retail WoW is in the current state its in.
The WoW killer wasn't a huge, new MMO. It was itself, death by one million microcuts over several expansions. "You think you do but you don't," isn't even inherently wrong... the problem was that it was used against the wrong crowd. You think you want mob-sharing, but you don't. You think you want flying, but you don't. You think you want instant gratification, but guess what? You really, really don't.
That's why I don't even really hold a grudge towards the developers for the decline of WoW. There are definitely decisions I didn't agree with, but most of them made sense at the time they were made and people were either fine with them or actively asking for them. It must have been nearly impossible to imagine that all those QoL changes would end up taking away so much of the original experience at the time. And with 7 expansions worth of content and levels, it was probably never feasible to keep the soul of the game intact while also keeping players engaged. Would live WoW be in a better state today if the devs had kept all the major design paradigms of TBC and just added content and levels? (which means no group finder, no easier leveling, no ironing out the rough edges that made the game less balanced as a whole, etc)
Nah I do want that stuff. Preach hit on the real issue, games to easy and no need to really work with anyone else. All the QoL changes are fine but playing the game isn't much fun to play. Plus they keep screwing up classes and how leveling works every expansion.
Flying is good, mob sharing is good, easy is not good.
Lack of server community when they started cross server BGs was the start of what killed WoW for me. Then it started getting to easy... from there is was just meh.
Blizzard has gone overboard taking out the MMO part of an MMORPG.
@@GarrusN7
Mob sharing is not good. No one groups up if they don't need to, and you're severely underestimating the importance of it. It's *easy* to stay solo while preserving efficiency.
Flying was the worst when it was a NE druid attacking you in world PvP. Shadowmeld > flightform = instant getaway. Flying also lets you bypass the actual world, so I disagree 100% with it being good...this is coming from someone who was one of the first to get epic flying on their server due to how much I wanted it.
It's awesome in theory, but damages the world and makes PvP areas like Halaa a requirement rather than a bonus.
You say "easy is bad" but then say flying is good....which proves to me you didn't understand what Preach meant. Flying makes the *world* so much easier and safer to navigate.
@@GarrusN7 Easy is not good, all these other things that make easy is good. ... wtf.
BFA seems like a race... Classic is like going for a long journey
Crap journey. End game is shit and questing, quest flow and all the grindy are boring
@@grim86 Fair enough, I hope you enjoy playing whatever it is you enjoy then. I'll be having my fun back in vanilla WoW.
@@grim86 10x better than BFA
@@grim86 Sorry can't hear you over the ever compelling amazingness of BfA's endgame. Azerite shenanigans is the best endgame!
@@grim86 Talking about grinding.. Grind Azarite-Gear 24/7 and needs to do M+ 24/7 but talks about grinding.. at least I got smth to do :)
Oh man that Asmongold gank 2 minutes in...crisp
LTShowcase he’ll be reacting to it soon probably
Haha thank you for pointing it out so I didn't miss it
Thanks for posting the timestamp, I heard about it but couldn't find it.
@@billsmith4339 Literally my next video in the auto play queue lmao.
losers!
I played the demo around Blizzcon. I talked more with people in that week than I have in the last 4 expansions
Guy: "Take your rose tinted glasses off"
GuyAfter1WeekInClassic: "I have to quit my job"
This was preach.
The feels, holy. SO many feels.
Because it’s actually an MMORPG.
Yes, we are missing the MMORPG in the current version.
THIS is a game that invites us to wander it with our allies and get to know the places and secrets, and each other. And ourselves. Incredibly zen. Rewards the elements of human soul, intentfulness, mindfulness, attentiveness. Near perfect game design.
2-3 years ago when i was still playing on a vanilla private server, i ended up questing with a guy for like 2 hours, he ended up being an alt of a high rank player in a raiding guild and he asked me if i wanted to join the guild, i joined and hit 60 about 1-2 weeks after and became a core member in the guild shortly after that and raided all the way to naxx with them, good memories from there, our guild is getting together for classic now, best times ive had in wow thus far.
Alexandros Mograine that’s my favorite part of the old wow. You built relationships and you joined a group of friends to play .
@@Artchred yeah, like i could have never imagined the effect it would have when i joined the guys group for a quest.
Alexandros Mograine ya it’s wild, similar stuff happened to me as well, except it was PVPing
The best synopsis I've seen. This is EXACTLY what WoW was like and why it was so much fun and so addicting. It was a sandbox early on and then it morphed into more of a ride that had no deviations from what they had scripted.
I was a hunter and loved the challenge of figuring out how to solo rare and elite mobs. It might take hours but it was FUN because I had to work for it and be GOOD. Now you don't really have to be good to gain anything.
Its very difficult to explain but classic is the best game ive ever played
Wholeheartedly agree. So many fond memories..
@Fonzie Runescape was good because you didn't really need other people to level your skills. WoW and this live or die by the community crap has disgusted me. It's like do you play a game to make friends? Is this what you're missing in real life and want to make the game you play life 2.0? I wish WoW had less interacting with other players if you ask me. I just log in and realize I need to be on Discord to do anything challenging then log out.
It's a game made for having fun, not for esports and dumb shit
@@muumuumu esports are much more fun than anything in classic
@@niklasstahl98 esports don't belong in wow, play something else for that
The danger is part of it but more broadly, it's "scarcity". Scarcity of info, XP, damage, health, oh shits, consumables, gear, bag space, etc, etc, etc, etc. Scarcity creates suffering and enduring through periods of suffering creates happiness.
How do we humans successfully endure suffering? We do it together.
P.S. You finally get it. Welcome to the family.
Beautifully said!
Great comment mate.
I’ve really missed Mike raving about stuff he loves. Like the fury warrior or disc priest in legion beta. Glad you’re enjoying it preacho
"You're the hero of every story"
The real issue with modern WoW's storytelling isn't that you're the hero of every story... it's that you're the hero of stories that aren't yours. Stories that were written before you even started your journey, and that are shared by everyone else.
In vanilla, you are the hero of your own story; your adventure is yours. The NPCs don't tell you who you are, and your story is unique to you. Because the story isn't the quest flavour text; it's the adventure you went on, in pursuing that quest. That's why the grind quests didn't bother us so much; that's why it didn't matter that you were gathering an inexplicable number of body parts for some bullshit reason for some NPC who didn't care who you were - that stuff didn't matter. That stuff wasn't the story. The story was you, in the world, with other people, adventuring. That's the real hero's story.
And that's the big change. From Wrath onwards, the story became increasingly dominated by the quest content; suddenly, it wasn't about you, in the world, with other people. It was about you, alone, guided from one mouthy NPC to another while they vomited exposition at your feet and told you how important you were... before promptly telling some other player the same thing a moment later. Essentially, your story became one big version of those quests where you relive the stories of others as an interactive flashback.
Yeah that's fair, hello nameless hero! You must go do the thing and then witness other important characters actually play out the entire story with you having little to no impact on anything! And away!
Fuck yeah dude so much this. You're not the real hero, you're just the "hero" that does all the work so that the story characters can take all the credit. FFXIV handles this SO much better. Everywhere you go every single NPC knows who you are, even the faction leaders defer to you and rely on you to save the day, you're not just there to do the work before the main character of the story shows up and finishes things with a single swing before launching into a drawn out RP sequence. People acknowledge that you're a hero and that menial tasks are below you but as the player character you help anyway and build relationships with the characters within the world and they remain present in the story even in side quests in leveling zones.
@@ifeanychukwu2412 I started playing FFXIV recently (just started HW) and I remember a lot of those MSQ quests where I am doing something pointless for some random person. The whole time I'm asking myself what the purpose of this quest was besides just dragging out the story... then waaay later in the story when you're putting together a new company you start looking for people to join. And who do you go to? All those random people (or quite a few of them at least) you helped with menial tasks across your journey up to that point! That's when it clicked that they did a really good job at tying things together. Some of quests might seem pointless but they're there for a reason... even if some of them are REALLY frustrating (I'm looking at you Company of Heroes).
classic is the story of "me" not the story of the world
Yes.
no in classic your an insignificant plebe
so the story isn't about YOU at all
retail is all about youi
you the legend
you the champion
you are the commander
you are the saviour
etc
its lame
Catnium ‘You the pleb’
Has a modest ring to it. I miss it.
Being good to people will get you so much. I was totally not into raiding back then, but I'd farm consumables for people. If I asked for anything (I wanted my warlock mount), I had people to help me instantly. What great community we had back then.
This post gave me the feels. I missed how amazing the community was back then.
I haven't played BFA yet, but up to Legion I loved retail back since vanilla. But, I really can't keep up anymore. Due to disability, I use voice commands to play and I just can't keep up with a split second timing of complicated rotations, let alone the consistency. 20 minutes is enough to give me laryngitis for days.
In classic, things are slower and with much fewer hotkeys which I'll be able to rig up easier alternatives for. I'll be able to play it, which puts it a step up in my book.
Lovely to hear. A simpler, easier and slower game can be a true blessing and joy. Glad to see this kind of post, thank you for sharing!!
Preach just keeps on giving this monday.
"WoW doesn't have a story" TRIGGERED
A big thing I'm missing in current WoW compared to vanilla is that the story used to be much more subtle. For example elwynn/westfall/redridge/duskwood all have their own stories, but are also interconnected by this theme of the kingdom being slowly rotted by corruption/incompetence of the nobles, which all sets up the Onyxia thing later on. It's just that you're not neatly told all this by an important NPC monologuing at you, you pick up bits here and there. When the guy in Lakeshire sends you all over the place to ask for help and you're told 'sorry we have our own problems' wherever you go, that quest isn't there because the developers thought running/taxiing to elwynn duskwood westfall and back was amazing gameplay. The story is more 'these things have happened in the world prior to your arrival, and you can learn about and affect some of them while doing your own thing' than 'here's a discrete story with a clear beginning and end in which you're always the protagonist'.
well said!
Spot on
I remember the moment accidentally having 'track dragons' activate on my hunter and wandering through stormwind and having Katrina pop up as trackable on the map...it was a "hmm maybe its a bug moment" and joked about it in guild chat (we were all low level at the time), then the big reveal comes many levels later and I could imagine my hunter screaming "I FUCKING KNEW IT!" when she turned into Onyxia.
Asmond getting his cheeks clapped in the background lol
"ganked in the background". that was like, a 12 on one lol
true, but he was outnumbered :D even had a croc on him AHA! #Pray4Asmongold
Classic WoW was never about storytelling, or the narrative, or making your character rival Thrall or Jaina. The whole premise of the game is that you are a nameless grunt of the Alliance/of the Horde and the world setting is the aftermath of Warcraft 3. That's it. You go explore it, and you make your own story in it. That's all there was to it... but that was enough.
Exactly. Having your player character the primary focus of each expansion is fucking confusing and lazy story telling. It's an MMORPG and making the game single player focused (but not really) is stupid. You're supposed to be a cog in a large machine, not the machine god messiah itself. You clear a raid now and the story plays out like you just solo'd all the things.
Yeah, I'm fucking tired of being called "commander" and being on a first name basis with every king and queen in the game. Thousands of people around me, how can we all be the saviors of the alliance or horde?
@@Novacification it will be refreshing, getting back the RPG elements like that. Like quests not being "go nuke Alexstrasza my dude!" But more along the lines of "if you go get me some boar chops and a beer I'll teach you a new recipe!"
PERFECT encapsulation of why Classic is awesome. Thanks for this vid!
What a perfect explanation of why classic works so well. This is why Preach is the best WoW youtuber
He said the same thing as everyone else.. what do u mean
The conclusion might be similar, but it's how he explains it
Preach, what you are describing is called "old school gaming." It's as simple as that.
Less flash and more risk. Real risk, where you might lose hours of work or even items. Less convenience and more earning your rewards. Less hand holding and more exploring. Less cut scenes and polish but somehow more immersion. Yup, that's what old school gaming was and that is what classic wow used to be.
I really hope they facilitate a discussion about how elements of Classic can implemented into retail to improve the player experience
i have a feeling that classic is a test branch for them to see what people like so they can try and bring it in
I’ve been laughed at for stating this for years! Glad this idea is starting to gain support
I hope not. Many parts pf classic are boring as fuck
that will not work, most people who play BFA actually are casuals who love that style of play.... Implementing those elements will maybe look better in my eyes but sure not in theirs..
This is the one thing I hope classic brings. Maybe we will get another WotLK, an expansion that combines the best of both worlds.
Everything you mentioned is exactly what us classic enthusiasts have been talking about for years. It's SOOOOOO good to finally get public voices out that say "No, it's not just nostalgia". Thanks for the vid.
Community is 99% of it, why I don't play wow today.
Vanilla, and BC, were legendary, what broke the game in my opinion were cross realms, insta dungeon teleports, heirlooms, the destruction of fun talent tree's, easier leveling ... Etc, etc, they made the game far too easy ... They appealed to the trolls on the forums which was so wrong of them, they started bleeding sub numbers because the fun got removed ... The game was amazing when they did not cater to the troll and cry babies. Blizzard employee's should be banned from forums lol.
@torvestas sister Nope, the landscape did not accommodate for any real world PvP ... Besides, the game was pretty wrecked at that point, if you are into PvE maybe you liked it because of ICC but even that was laughable at best, dreary raid with dreary lore, eww ... :P Once again, these are all opinion based.
@@dabblesmith5755 The game is so easy, only 1 % cleared full myth Dazar'Alor before cross-realm myth was unlocked. Don't get me wrong, I don't like BFA, neither I like classic, they both are shit mechanicaly and pvp-wise. BFA has shitty pve-abuse and oneshots, Vanilla has premade-dodgers that absolutely kills pvp, shitty pvp system that require nolifing instead of skill and too much grind plus - no content for casual player if you don't have 5 hours min each day to play the game. Vanilla has good sence of community, but offers nothing for pvp players, this open world pvp becomes boring very fast, even faster than arena. TBC was the best time of WoW, sence of community? Check. Interesting pve? Check. PVP content? hell yeah check. Class viability? Check. Balance between grinding and actually touching content? Well, compared to vanilla - check. I remember how I started playing WoW on vanilla, got to lvl 60 and thought - now I start raiding... And than I realised - I don't have this much time to either play pve cause I need to farm tons of gold or play pvp cause rank system requires even more time. And I just quited cause every day in game was like "2 hours of grind or 2 hours of trying to run some dungeons". Than TBC came out and my friend asked me to play with him, at first I was like "no way man, I don't have that much time" but he insisted me to give it a chance and... Hell, arena actually saved this game for me, than I found myself different job, closer to my house and I even was able to do pve. I guess everyone will be even more hyped about TBC, than ther are now about Classic.
@ExcZist's Studio Interesting and well informed response, I appreciate you sharing your point of view without being hostile about it. As someone who was never truly invested in raiding other than to get geared for farming arena I must say that my point of view is biased. I digress, also as a South African Caucasian my family and I are in deep trouble which lays ahead of us, the crime rates are truly horrific and BEE which has been in place for 25 years proves to us that we have no future here, so hopefully classic will provide a place for me to at least escape mentally in the evenings over a weekend. I know this may not be the place to let you know our troubles but WoW at least provides some sanctuary for my mind so I cannot wait to get back. I wish you well and hope you enjoy wow as much as we do. Classic is going to be amazing!
Yeah and the same people play classic
Classic allows you to write your own story. In retail you just follow the path set out before you.
Classic was a sandbox which morphed into one of those haunted house rides at the local fair. You sit in a car and get dragged around to one scene after another.
It's nice to see so many people did understand why classic was so good. 'See Bliz, I wasn't crazy' :-)
As someone who played vanilla all the way through Naxx, I can't agree more with the sense of progression you are talking about. You started out as nothing. an ant. by the time you are in full T3 you are a raid boss yourself. you can slaughter everyone or survive through everything. but what made it special is that you earned every step of it. every upgrade was impactful and you weren't just shuffling stats. and your character was a story in itself. you were part of a phone call list for dragon camping so you could get NR gear to kill huhurahn.
i loved my time in vanilla. but i wont be playing it again. ive been there, done that. but i am excited and grateful that a new generation (and some old) will be able to enjoy it again.
and t3 isnt available in a week of creating a character like its equivalent in bfa
@@attoboi9763 You can't clear full Mythic Dazar'Alor in a week of creating a character. Grinding BiS gear will take a lot. It's proven by how many people out of 3 mil. subscribers cleared it full.
@@poorpriest4549 you're saying a method alt can't get near fully geared in a week? Really?
@@attoboi9763 Oh, I was talking about NORMAL player and not someone who play the game like it's his work. Fun thing but according to statistics - only 2 - 5 % of people are actual hardcore raiders. Hell, only 22 560 characters cleared full myth Dazar Alor.
Sounds to me like the game transitioned from an open, sandbox feeling rpg into a theme park game.
Well put sir. /salute
More or less and i personally don't like games that takes heavy lean on the theme park side, i just want my infinite MMO that has stuff to do for months or even years. None of that needs to be hard just time consuming.
Dunno about sandbox, but rpg yes
WoW has always been a theme park MMO. EVE is a sandbox MMO.
It was always a theme park, but at release it had offered a persistent world, a game world which mattered to it''s inhabitants and your action in it had at least a little bit of weight.
Been playing since vanilla, this speaks to me.
As someone who also started in WoW Beta and has played since the beginning, my thoughts and feelings mimic yours originally. Based on your current views I think you might have inspired me to play Classic again once it is released. I thank you.
I'm so happy your on-board the Classic hype train and can't wait for more Classic content
"I've been so excited about greens" LOL, it feels weird to say right?
Watching your video helped me solidify what I had personally been missing in the game. I kept thinking back when i was playing resto shaman in Siege of orgrimmar, and I consider that my personal hey-day, not just in terms of skill, but progression and over all fun. I've tried many times to recreate that but I havent been able to. When you explained about how you felt progressing with someone I realized that the biggest joy for me wasnt just improving personally, but along with my fellow healer and team, and that my personal improvements made a notable impact on our teams progress (to a point, obviously not a team does one man make). And then, when you made your anecdote about bracers, it also helped me realize what I missed about my mage in WoD (Dont judge me). I spent a lot of time doing proving grounds, just for fun, for personal improvement. I knew exactly what was going to happen, and for the most part exactly what I was going to do, until the waves just got so hard I couldn't. At one point i got to wave 124, which was US 3rd for mage, and that was a huge improvement from the me who once got benched in cata for being bad. But oddly, M+ wasnt ever really my thing. You'd think something repeatable and pumpable would've scratched the same itch as PG did for me but it never did, and im only just now realizing why because of your video. It's because it's hard for me to pinpoint my exact value to my group and what I can do to make a run better. Obviously being better is better, but I mean, one week we can be doing 18/19, and the next we're doing 16/17 of the same dungeon just because of our class interaction and the affixes. I love m+ and what it does, but if you accidently scoff a key, the key drops, the dungeon potentially changes, and then as weeks go on you are hit with new affixes. There are so many variables that it can be hard to go 'this is what happened' or 'You can do this better' , because unless you spend a huge amount of time in the game, there isnt really any sort of 'practice' , so for me personally it's hard to improve. Which, this might seem hypocritical, I don't really enjoy doing m+ under my skill level. I could do a 10 for the weekly, but whats the point in doing a 13/14? nothing, its not hard enough to be fun, and its far enough away from 17/18+ that even practicing there only gives me a feel for the affix, not neccesarily what I should be doing to be a contributing member of my group. Like as a frost mage, in lower keys, mobs die too fast to practice using freezing rain. But in higher keys when i try itill probably fuck it up, or not use it efficiently as possible, and that will hurt my dps, ultimately preventing me from doing the key levels I know i have the skill to do, because a failure means demotion, not 'try this 19 again'. I guess the short hand version of that is that I miss having a static progression for my character that I have the ability to control and prepare for.
I've tried around 4 times to get into WoW in my life...i made a trial account during WoD (forsaken rogue...still remember it) couldn't make past level 20 in a trial account, but i was not interested in doing it anyway..it was just so forgettable, i didn't learn anything about the world..i simply followed the yellow thing on the minimap.
I tried, 1 year later, to make another trial..i think it was a dwarf paladin this time...didn't even make it to level 20, and i don't remember a thing about it, just like i don't remember the successive times i tried to get into WoW.
Everything really felt meaningless, without thought, and everyone kept telling me that "after around 30-50-100 hours (or whatever) it will become good" ... sorry, but in an MMO i want to enjoy rerolling various characters, so those many hours PRE endgame need to be at least acceptable.
Then i gave vanilla a try on a private realm, since not a single person would shut up about it, i rolled an undead priest and started: differences?
- Starting from the 3rd quest a random person invited me to a group, and we went all the way up to the "Agamand Mills" questing
- Random people, crossing in my way, saw that i was a priest and asked me for a fortitude buff, and they were eager to buff me in return..one even gifted me a green (!!!) wand for this small favor
- I died around 10 times before i even saw Undercity, and that really made everything much more meaningful..finally i started to pay attention to my surroundings, where things were located etc..despite having played in the Tirisfal Glades multiple times before i finally knew my way around them.
- I interacted with trainers and shops because...i needed to! I barely remember glancing at them in my previous attempts, because what use would i have for better equipment if anything died in 2 hits? I even invested into alchemy/herbalism, because i really felt like potions could give me an advantage (and they did!)
At the end of the day: i went into both "modern" and vanilla WoW as a complete noob..i didn't care for the first and i loved the second. From 0 to 10 in my mind.
Even if you use addons like "Questie!", in vanilla, you just can't simply follow the marker on your map..you need to pay attention where you go, where enemies are, which path is safer, where other groups of players are...i can't stress how big of a difference it made.
Those quests that took 2 hours to get 10 things existed only to guide players to the next mob grind area. Quests in vanilla vs live are different in that sense. On live they server more as story plot lines and a zone narrative. In vanilla, the main purpose of quests was just to push players to the next appropriate mob grind area as breadcrumb quests. This is why you get to an area and the quests stop sometimes and you need to grind out a level or two before you get any new ones.
HOLY! Did you notice the 500 DPS Mage at 6:31?
Wait a second... That's me! :)
lol GJ
I cannot wait for classic!
The more effort (time) and emotional investment (meaning social interaction) the more satisfaction you get from rewards (gear, gold, achievements and/or other forms of gain).
Over the years there’s been made changes to ‘ease’ the barriers of time and social interactions in the game.
- Leveling has been faster (time).
- Dungeons made shorter (time).
- Rewards have come more often (time).
- Finding groups have been automized (time).
@all of the above; has been made easier/less risky and thus removed the need to communicate, which removed social interaction.
Ask anyone who played Classic (or TBC/early WotLK) and 9/10 of them eill say the community and pacing was the major draws to the game. You invested a lot into it, but you got rewarded strongly for it.
In modern wow you invest 15 minutes and get rewarded for that time, low/"poor" time investment gives low/"poor" rewards.
You don’t get the incentive to nurture social aspects of the game, because you don’t need to.
You dont get the incentive to invest tine and effort into the game, because you don’t have to.
There’s no arguing that WoW has become a better developed, complex and skillfull game over the years. It really has become awesome, however that doesn’t matter much when it lacks the captivating part of what makes a game great: sense of acomplishment (+ social aspects in multiplayer games).
"Only by working together can we succeed" - Tirion Fordring
Actually Blizzard in vanilla
Cannot agree more.
Thanks Preach, great video that gives voice to some of us. Not all, to be sure. But many.
That description of combat and control at the end...that is the best way I've heard it described how it feels better in Classic.
Server identity and community is so important for an mmo. Cross-realm, phasing, lfg and lfr really destroyed the "mmo" part of WoW.
I agree, but they destroy some part of the social interaction on servers.
They do not destroy: massiv, multi-player, online :D in fact, with phasing and cross realm the game gets even more massive and u can play with more people than before.
I feel like FFXIV did a good balance, the only cross-realm stuff is things you queue into. Anything besides that is server based, savage (probably mythic in WoW equivalent) is server base, the open world is server based, the community is server based, etc. Not sure about the market/auction though.
@@max5183 just because their are more people with cross realm and share in ng does not make it more mmo. It make it less because you don't need to know people on your server. Play vanilla and you will feel that classic is a much larger world even though retails has 8 expansion. Just name 10 players not from your friend list or guild that player on your realm. I guaranteed you will not be able to. In classic if your level from 1 to 60, you could easily name 10 players not on your list or guild cause the world is alive and true mmo
I don't understand how you can claim retails is more mmo when there is LFR. Where everyone just ignore each other and zerg through. LFR is the prime example of what retail wow is right now
@@max5183 i do not agree. That is like matchmaking where you get auto shuffled into a match with few random ppl, finish, rinse and repeat, and by that standard every multiplayer could be categorized as mmo
@@Newbtuber man it was great sharing leveling pains, ganks, leveling successes, bgs and whatever with familiar names here and there. Oh and was someone an asshole? Yeah the server remembers.
Classic is like GoT season 1 and BFA is like GoT season 8.
@@barnaby4232 Wrath is like season 6 tbh. Started off great, went mostly great, ended weird and was the start of the end for the series.
barns hippoboi I'd say wrath is more like season 7. It had some good moments but wasn't nearly as good as the previous stuff. You sort of shrugged it off and were fully confident that next expansion would restore the game to full glory again.... But that never happened. Cata (season 8) happened and it turned out that they were only going to double down on the bad stuff from the previous season.
I'm glad you and other old school vanilla players are having fun! I'm happy to have classic content on your channel and I'm excited to play classic when it comes out!
I'm not it's boring
@@grim86 Then don't watch and enjoy BFA.
It's really cool that you've been enjoying it so much.
I believe you encompassed a great number of players feelings on the current game and why we preferred the older design better.
Really well delivered.
Preach, I am so happy to see you enjoying WoW again. We are all glad to be home again. Hopefully blizzard takes cues from the feedback about classic and makes changes accordingly to the modern game. Thanks for everything over the years. You are incredible.
Pfft home my ass
What amazed me when i first played classic a while ago on pservers was how much of the feeling the game gave me when i first played it actually came back. I thought it was due to me being new to the game and it would never be like that again, but A LOT more than i ever thought possible did come back with it. There just is something about it that goes beyond nostalgia or lack of knowledge that just feels good.
Looking forward to seeing some Classic class guides Preachy! :D
Boring
Hearing you talk about the whole talking to people and forming up groups out in the world reminds me of similar things happening back when I was leveling to 60. My first guild was made up of a bunch of us dudes that grouped up randomly and did things together while leveling and a guild just made it easier to communicate with each other. Man, it's been so long without this sort of experience that it makes it hard to believe the game did used to exist in that state.
i love how slowly preach type for someone who's spent so much time on pc :joy:
Not big of a deal but it legit low-key triggers me when people who make a living on PC, and PC game, especially on an mmo like wow types slow af lol. I learned how to type from wow
@@idofps9709 haha yeah i learned from rs and other mmo's
Vanilla not having a strong narrative is its greatest strength. It's 4 years after Warcraft 3 and its everyone trying to pick up the pieces after the world almost ended. One of the thing's this game was praised for when it came out was the complete lack of any downtime while playing. You could run to one end of a continent to the other without a single loading screen and at the time that was amazing.
Blackwing Lair patch hits and you do a quest to get the key then you go in and fight a dragon. That's the story. If it were retail there would a scenario to capture the foot of Blackrock Mountain where npcs are calling you champion accompanied by 6 cutscenes
What, there is nothing wrong with narrative you just have to do it right. Just as you have to do no narrative right. Not that there actually isn't a narrative in classic it's just less defined. I believe that there is a sweetspot where you can adventure and create your own story but also be captured by the greater narrative of the world. However the reason why there isn't the feeling of adventure in retail is because there is no space in which you can andventure. Leveling has lost its importance. That's the real strength of classic that leveling is the main part of the game. If leveling still was where you would spend a majority of your time a strong narrative would only add to the experience since there would also be room for you to make your own story and progress with your character
Very well put into words, I sound like nothing less than a murloc when I try to explain why original WoW was so good!
Because its simply FUN, while retail wow IS NOT. Ez , i have loads of old ppl/buddies coming back JUST for Classic coming out once again lol
AWWW DUDEEE 4 STRENGTH 4 STAM LEATHER BELT
OGHHHH
UHHHH
Asmon got the same item in the classic beta, it's legendary
Dude i remember it so well, SFK, i was an utterly clueless warrior, didnt really understand what tanking was, like as a concept. This other warrior in the group, he lead us, helped us find our way out of Undercity, helped us reach the dungeon, we battled our way through and this guy became my WoW role model despite the fact that i never saw him again.
best part was when he opened his skill tab and noticed two handed axe skill was 1
The community interaction is what really makes the game. A priest Buffing a rando stranger running by on the road and seeing that priest or whoever struggling with a mob and you rush in to save them. Party and quest together in early levels might even lead to raiding with these people in the end game. Arathi highlands has an annoying chain quest for horde I remember doing with 4 or 5 other people and we quested and pvp'd together and all added each other to our friends lists. It's a beautiful time indeed.
I was on my bfa character yesterday and i cannot tell you how much my white swings hit for. However i can tell you exactly where i was when i crit over 100 for the first time in tbc (when i started).
For those of u curious, i was in loch modan the south east corner with troggs. gnome female warrior, level 17
Thsts beautiful man
I remember on my hunter I pulled 3 mobs in desolace one was 2 lvls above another 3 lvls above and one was 5 lvls above and I managed to kill them. I felt like a god for a week. The fact that i still remember that vividly after so many years shows the impact that challenge and similar ones had on how fun the game was.
During the stress test I was given items by guys walking by saying i cant use this here. I was like wow. I couldnt wait until i could pass it forward. I found a gun in echo isles and gave it to a hunter. The game is amazing.
One of the things i always fondly remember about vanilla wow, is doing the entire darkshire questline and killing the level 35 elite skeleton in the middle of the grave yard and return him to the grave. You get a green weapon, its a two handed sword with the most basic of models but simply using it felt badass. It was the sword of a hero fallen during the second war and I helped him find peace. I am carrying on his legacy. It was easily replaced other items of the same level, like whirlwind axe or later on, Scarlet monestary items. but that sword, Archeus, was my first moment in adventuring in wow.
As fun as getting a 425 titan forge item is. BUT Upgrading a white to a green or even a blue feels way better and rewarding.
christ I can remember running around with GREY shoulders because fuck me were shoulders are incredible rarity until much later in the game.
Just started watching Preach's videos since the classic content. What an engaging speaker! 26 minutes absolutely zipped by.
Can't wait to play old wow but with the stability of current servers.
not true classic unless we get lagforge!
Based on the stress test classic servers are MORE stable that BFA x)... Can see more than 10 ppl around you without the server having a hissy fit.
@@ryanmoff1 I remember having to upgrade from 265 mb ram to 512 just to survive the lag walk to AH
Man, everything you say is just spot on! At first it stunned me when you said that World of Warcraft had close to no story whatsoever but then, as you clarified, this statement isn't aimed at the WoW lore in general but at the actual WoW vanilla, which I agree lacks lore but it's the better video game as you called it, for the reasons that you pointed out and not only you. Anyone who goes around UA-cam right now will find out that 9/10 (if not 10/10, I personally haven't seen an exception yet, just taking the safe route here) players are trying or successfully explaining why does Classic feel better to play. Thanks for the review!
26:02 when preach metamorphoses into his natural form of smugmode
My friends still sometimes reminisce about funny stories from TBC and Wrath. We're still playing now, but we don't really have the same stories after MoP. At first I thought it was just a consequence of getting older - but no. It's the game that has changed, it's no longer an environment that fosters stories like that.
I started as Horde on Nov. 2004. This time I'll get to do the Alliance experience!
I was Alliance in vanilla and Horde in BC, and plan to go the same way. I only hope there's enough Alliance players, considering how bloated the Horde is these days... I guess they don't have blood elves yet? :'D
My first guild in Vanilla was the best guild I was ever in, and not just because it was vanilla. We used ventrilo or teamspeak or w/e, and became a real tight knit group of peeps that had a blast. We stumbled through dungeons and raids, with our main tank reading info online and then explaining the pulls to us as we went along. Our last raid together was in Karazhan. Our GM actually passed away and things were never the same. RIP Krag [A] Defiance - Malfurion. In all the years gone by, I've faction swapped, and server hopped, chasing the dragon but never finding that home again. I want to think this can still happen, but I'm wary of hope.
I cant wait for vanilla i enjoyed it originally but i was like 11 so i think ill appreciate it even more this time around.
They did give players the challenge to figure out in Legion with the Mage tower, which a player probably did have to come back to and work towards, and unsurprisingly it was really well received. But overall yeah it has been missing sorely, that level of trust in the player’s own experience
Mage tower was definitely best part of legion.
Vanilla classic is like a slow burn marathon. Log in, maybe level a bit or do a dungeon, enjoy the company along the way.
Retail is like a Michael Bay movie. Log in, boom boom boom, clear out all your checkbox daily tasks, log off.
That said I do enjoy both, and will likely be playing both classic and retail.
Yeah. Endgame is definetly better in retail for example. Other than gearchecks, raiding in vanilla difficulity isn't hard at all. The mechanics are a joke, which isn't weird at all considering how old the fights are.
@@OsomoMojoFreak probably should play on a pvp either way, because open world PVP in classic was gold.
Mained arms warrior back then, and I absolutely loved the whirlwind axe questline and the berserker stance quest that sent me on that epic journey to the other, dangerous, continent....cannot wait for this game
Visual diarrhea would be the most apt description of current raids and character proc based combat. I am not saying the spell effects aren’t cool to watch but combine that with 10-20 people plus adds and bosses It’s really hard to keep track of all the shit going on.
I remember how happy I was to get that Whirlwind Axe, and then the Ice-Barbed Spear like 20 levels later.
the only thing that keeps me from wanting to play classic is a lot of the class changes that I liked are added in later expacs
I'm glad you enjoy it, I'm glad all who play it enjoyed it. I currently remember a lot of classic as a hellish grind at time, maybe it tainted by a view at where I was(or wasn't in this case) was with my life. I just don't have the time for it, I barely have the time for BFA. I might try it but Ill never get that feeling back I had...as the people I use to run with all moved on. For me it was the people I played along side that made it fun, I might try it and I hope I am wrong with this thought. I'm just glad others are enjoying it.
The first month of most expansions/new/fresh content is super fun
Facts!!!!
Another convert! Welcome! Great video! I love how many old school players/streamers are able to break apart their own experiences and why the game design helped create them. Great commentary!
"this is a better videogame" KO
As to that remembering the last time WoW gave us a hard quest early, just think back to the mage tower. Sure it was doable below 900 ilvl for most classes, but not for most people. Most people just weren't patient or skilled enough without overgearing it with ToS or even Antorus gear.
Look how toxic those people became at blizz because they couldn't beat it in the first time (or even first few) the tower was open.
[cauldron stirrer] level 10 orc warrior bis staff more than 10 dps never forget.
This is what I want. I want a game I can put effort into and care about the people I'm playing alongside.
Can't wait to see Asmon reacting to this lol. Was Asmon streaming when he got killed by preach lol?
Im the palli that was getting murdered under the bridge slightly later.. I'm almost sure he was not streaming at this time
I got some serious tingles watching this video. I'm really looking forward to playing classic again. I hope I can find the time - a lot has happened in my life since I played so many years ago.
You're talking about stories... our own stories. Man, I still remember the time I met Satsuki and Taggz while playing with my roommate... we went and (tried!) to do that dungeon in Decolace that I can't remember the name of suddenly. On the way out, as I arrived I imitated the trains in Japan saying that I was arriving in group chat and Satsuki got all excited and replied in Japanese.... and then, long story short (and an EPIC dungeon run) a few months later my roommate and I met them in Perth, Australia.
Never, in any other game, have I had that happen... it certainly never happened in WoW again.
You're god damn right the old style made for an awesome community.
I'm looking for a good MMO for years now, classic is gona save the genre!
FF14 already saved it.
My hope is that the exact opposite happens. I hope they see how successful Classic is and will try to incorporate some of the design philosophies from Classic in retail. I'm very doubtful that will happen though.
Who else is worried about becoming a complete shut-in again?
Yupp
How can you be worried about something that is going to be inevitable?
The good news is we have much better chairs then we did in 2004
@@trxe420 And groceries can be delivered to your doorstep now - lol
Nothing to worry about if ur already a shut-in
Brilliant analysis...I got to play the stress test to level 5 last week and loved it...got a night elf hunter to the max and just was amazed how long things took...and how much people actually talked to each other. It was awesome. Can't wait for August.
4:32 Shouldve gone with the raptor head quest in barrens when they don't have a 100% drop LOL
spot on, the reason vanilla and to a lesser extent tbc was so memorable for me was the social interactions the world made possible. i still remember alot of the folk i met up with in the open world and quested with extensively on and off from back then, couldnt tell you the names of the players i "met" in leveling dungeons this morning though. even if you try to converse these days more often than not you get a wall of silence and even if you dont you aint gonna see those folks anymore. hooray for CRZ and cross realm dungeoneering.
90 days remaining till classic.
It's fun for famous streamers and youtubers because they have a small army doing whatever they ask them to do and giving them stuff all the time.
I'm not gonna touch classic with a 10 foot pole but:
1. I'm glad the people that always wanted it get it
2. I hope whatever makes classic good bleeds over to retail in some form or another.
err what ??? u dont like classic but i want the things in classic in retail ??????
@@Nox1234567891011 One of my complaints with BFA is the lack of social aspect. And lack of a meaningful leveling experience. If those are mended because of the popularity of classic, great. But if I wanted to play classic I would have played it when it was current.
@@TheBdougs Classic wow has all the social aspects u need bro, fuck bfa just play classic
@@ivenousername retail has all the aspects of being social too in a world that isnt artificially made longer by obscure quest drops (1h gorilla sinew farm hello)
Claiming retail isnt social is blaming and projecting...
You are the problem here.
I met a new person today and offered to help him, he was asking where the fishing trainer was, we ended up talking for about an hour and he added me to friends.
Thats on retail.
On the beta stress test I spent ages hearing bad lies and claims, seeing peole be oblivious to where to go cause they havent read a single thing, and then get annoyed by the constant spam invites to "social questing" which was litterally just people grouping to get tags for mob spawn.
I refused to join them after that.
Its not some sunshine and rainbows and it will not fix human behaviour.
You and others are the problem with attitudes and anti social behaviour, not the game.
Retail has many flaws, but classic has a bunch of flaws too - one being its bad design and it being slow ; not hard.
I raided in naxx level when Vanilla was current and i can tell you;
It was not hard... at all, if you compare it to todays WoW.
Play wow classic if you want something simple, easy and slow.
Thats ok to like.
But do not expect people to change, and do not blame a game for YOU being antisocial or rude.
The cake "Claiming retail isnt social is blaming and projecting"
It really isn't. It's simply stating a verifiable fact.
I dare you to play classic up to level 20ish, then come back here and tell me that you weren't wrong.
My experience has been similar to yours. Classic just kind of fosters a different kind of behavior in people. I've been playing a paladin, and I"ll toss buffs on everyone I pass by. I've saved a lot of peoples' asses when they were in trouble by stopping to heal them. When I decline a group invite, I feel compelled to stop and tell them why because usually there's no good reason to not help each other out.
The other night, I saw a mage / warrior combo about to get wrecked because they accidentally pulled too many gnolls in Redridge. I healed both of them to full, and they invited me to a group and said "thanks for saving our asses." I rolled with them for a couple of hours, knocking out quests we might not have been able to do otherwise.
It's also cool seeing the same people running around. Last night I did Deadmines and was super salty when the tank won the 2h mace over me -- but this morning, I saw him running around dunking on murlocs with it while out questing, so I figured "well at least it's being put to good use." In retail, he'd just be that guy that basically ninja'd a two-hander from a ret paladin.
It's been a very good experience and I can't wait for it to go live. I'm having to pull myself away from the game because I don't want to get too attached to my character when she inevitably goes "poof" after the beta ends. Weirdly enough, for as time consuming as it's been, there isn't anything I'm dreading redoing when the game launches. Like you, I'm being reminded why I loved this game in the first place.
The pacing of Classic works much better for me.
It sounds counter-intuitive, but constant fun/entertainment burns me out.
The run from Westfall to Redridge is long and boring, but by the time I get to Redridge, I'm ready for some more questing :)
The boringness of certain parts are what make the fun parts so fun. It's like if you live in California or Florida, you never appreciate the nice weather. Someone from New York like me appreciates the fuck out of spring though.
This Mike. Thanks for sharing your thoughts--actually some big themes at play in my life right now, and it feels so right to go for the heart of things, to enjoy each bit, not be deceived by big "objective" progress. From the perspective of someone that likes to make art and music and play games, it feels like it's almost the built in human stuff that's the most enjoyable - our ability to have meaningful moments with simple tools, feelings, and other people. Really big Mike, thanks for helping me think through this stuff. - Adventurer Judo :)