Abusive devs & mental trauma - the tragedy of Chivalry 2
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- Godspeed Soter Dave, you were the best
Patreon - / liniyka
00:00 - Intro
01:11 - The Past
03:02 - The Present
07:37 - The Future
#chivalry2 #tornbanner #soterdave #chivalry2gameplay #chivalry2update #chivalry2pc - Ігри
The original vid was going way overboard, as many of you have highlighted, so I decided to change a few things towards the end of the video. It's not their fault for what happened, but their cruelty sure as hell didn't help. Either way, RIP Soter Dave, you will be missed.
I don't mean to be a nit picker, as I feel some of these people defending the dev's are just gaslighters and people attacking you who are more interested in defending their pet game. There are MILLIONS of people with depression and other problems and people get pushed into suicide at an alarming rate worldwide. This isn't some rare and mysterious subject. That's not anything that should be used as a defense, rather it should support that behavior like this should be highlighted and not buried. This is not how people should live their lives and treat others. You can say it was just damage and stress on a wounded individual that was unwarranted which may or may not have contributed to his end, but regardless it was extreme and unwarranted. To what degree it affected him wasnt revealed. But how can hammering on wounded or sick individuals help? You yourself cannot actually say the company isn't at fault, just like you can't say they are wholely to blame. There's no point in giving into these peoples pressure because going too far in the other direction isnt correct either. (P.S. I didn't see your original video but I can commend you on going back and correcting what you feel was an emotional outburst, it's easy to understand the reaction.)
Nobody is defending the game, several people who were friends with dave and talked with his family (myself included) have made it EXTREMELY CLEAR that the ban had no impact on Dave's decision. He'd been struggling for an extremely long time, and even us as his friends hardly even noticed anything was off until he was gone. We aren't gaslighting, nor are we defending our "pet game". I've read the note he left, your assumptions here are as misinformed and incorrect as the joke of a hit piece it's commented on.
@No_Feelings, you don't get it, random shitty youtuber 13477432564335643 actually knows him better and random shitty commenter 5785425788543566 knows that you are actually gaslighting
@@blackjack2095 Why are you asking another man if you can or cannot play something. Do what you want....FFS.
wait Soter Dave died?!?!?!??!?! Holy fucking shit. I missed this news. Gutted man. He was a great dude. Had the privilege of playing with him a lot.
I'm taking it with a pinch of salt because the guy was acting childish as fuck but I heard somewhere that he was a pedo, cheater in game and just all around toxic (which I can see how he was very direct and critical but I wouldn't say toxic) the pedo stuff I'm skeptical about due to a lack of evidence. Just seems like another twomad situation imo
@@lukaszboczar2441source: trust me bro
@@lukaszboczar2441Mr Weenie says this stuff without proof, he's spreading it to troll
@@supernate760 he's threatening to sue me 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@lukaszboczar2441 he always does💀
Found a fun little review on Steam-
"Stubborness, Selfishness, Narcissism, and pettiness are things you would find in edgy 13 year old child , but apparently these qualities infest the Torn Banner dev studio.
Their toxicity and blatant nepotism in the situation led to a good guy killing himself. I never knew him, I never got to the chance to meet him and now I don't think I'll ever get that Pleasure.
Dave Soter was their saving grace, one of the few Content creators that didn't actively kiss the studios behind and called them out on their mistakes. He was never unfair about it either.
His april fools joke of showing how easy it is to hack in this game, probably because he wanted something done about it and he wasn't actually turning to cheating, inevitably led to a perma-ban with no communication or discussion about it from the devs.
He lost a lot of revenue because he couldn't make content, he actively tried to work something out but to no avail, the toxic children in Torn Banner got the final say. Upon his mental decline and his inability to care for himself, he took his own life.
I want Torn Banner devs to read this, I want this to be a constant reminder of the damage your lazy and petty ethics has done to your most valued member of this community.
I hope that some day when this studio shuts down and you are all on the streets begging for scraps by passers-by that you remember how you made Dave feel, and I hope you weep."
he had the choice to keep living. if you're ending it over losing your sense of revenue without even trying to find another job, that's on him. don't blame the devs for some guy with mental illness
@@seejaay i get where you are coming from, but it's still an unprofessional and petty business model to take no criticism and only accept praise. They banned their most critical and involved member of their game over an April fools joke. (Mind you a bad one since it was literally instructions to hack)
Also we don't know what Dave's situation was like, maybe it wasn't even about the revenue but a culmination of things.
Either way, yeah he could've found a new job, but when people hit that low point in there life they don't know if it will ever get better or if it just keeps getting worse, no matter what they try.
It's easy for people like you or me who loses a job to say "Aight, time to find a new one". Dave lost something he loved to do, and it's pathetic to say it was playing a video game for pennies to the dollar but if that's what the guy enjoyed it was what he enjoyed.
I'm sure if you got a Job you loved dearly and then had it ripped away from you for a dumb reason you'd be pretty pissed. Only difference between you and Dave is you'd probably find another job to hold yourself down for the moment until you could find something better.
Mental illness is not something that everyone overcomes, I want you to understand that. Is TB directly responsible? No, but they sure as shit gave him a nudge in the wrong direction.
@@seejaay pretty brain damaged considering the game was his passion and calling, if you do everything for money you would never understand that a lot of very competent people stick to a job they perform well at and feel fulfilled doing. If you love your job you never have to work a day in your life as they say.
@@seejaaydont blame the devs for absolutely gross behavior just bcs some guy killed himself? i am sorry but all i hear from you is a significant amount of ignorancy. “he had the choice to keep living” bro are you even listening to yourself?
@@seejaayand how his end change anything said in the video? or did you even watch the video? it is there explicitelly said that this wasn’t the main reason, just an unnecessary one
Y'know, it's always mind--boggling to me how cruel and heartless a group of people could be.
That describes Trump supporters
@@AntiTrumpGOP Stop making everything about politics, y'all are actually annoying.🤦♂
@@ExaltedKoko understood dude. Sorry
@@AntiTrumpGOP Spastic.
@@AntiTrumpGOP that describes biden supporters
They didn’t know that he was gonna kill himself. There’s definitely some other thing that happened behind the scenes that made him do this also depression.
I don't get how people didn't see this coming. They were like this with the first game as well as Deadliest Warrior.
I appreciate you taking a look at your own actions and criticizing them.
Yeah, sometimes you really gotta think before you speak. Which I didn't.
Its crazy i got banned for saying that they should add a memorial in game, and i am not the only one. They literally censored everything on the discord. Also there's some rage baiter like mrweenie and swan that are trying to profit his death for views or idk. And the saddest is that dave's mom saw these videos...
It's sad he's dead and all but they don't know him.....they owe him literally nothing I can respect he was appreciated in the community but asking something like that is entitled asf he was a good player who constantly criticized the devs pretty harshly its not easy to make a game so I can see their resentment towards him
@@hollowtavo7612 nah i see what you mean but censoring like that is crazy, they could have done a memorial so that at least players view this company better...
@@hollowtavo7612 what do you mean they owe him nothing? He was an active member of the community and was harsh to the devs because he wanted the game to succeed. He already paid for the game but not only that, he was hosting events, teaching people how to play well and overall being a good community member. But not only they won't make a memorial -- because it's already obvious the devs despised him just for being frank about the game -- they will try to hide his importance in the community.
@@Vaz44-4 He did all of that voluntarily, and profited off of it (which is actually a good thing, I wish I could make money off making videos of my favorite game). The devs don't own him shit, whether he paid for the game or not.
Mrweenie is literally a TB dev, he helped developing the game.
R.I.P Dave may you find your peace in heaven that you could not find on earth.
Should generally make a video about chivalry 2's downfall.
Well, I don't think Chiv 2 has "fallen" or anything, it's still a decent enough game. I just really don't like how devs acted here, and how almost nobody mentioned it on UA-cam
@@Liniyka imo it has fallen, if you look at the game most veterans already quit the game, the game is basically full of new players as of now
he's just profiting of the drama, he doesn't really care^^^
@@seejaayYou're a dumbass
@@eqouEven though it's not a good sign that it happens mainly because of the reasons they leave, Veterans leaving a game is not a sign of a game dying especially if the game is full of newcomers.
Because all games depend more on casuals than on veterans, since if all the veterans leave and only casuals remain, eventually new veterans will be born among them while if all the casuals leave and the veterans stay, the chances are that no more newbies will come and over time (if the game doesn't close due to so many people leaving) the veterans will also leave
Thanks for the reupload, was in the middle of watching and i was confused. I feel terrible for Soter Dave and his family, and i can say with certainty i am never playing this game again.
I would hope some large content creators pick this up. This situation is awful.
AAA studios and publishers don't even care about their own employees, why should we expect them to care about their consumers. As long as the profit margins are up, nothing else matters.
The mental gymnastics are insane
2:40 like a certain ziggylata...
This needs to be brought to a bigger audience , I’ve spoke to one of Asmongolds mods about this and he will bring it to him to delve into live on stream at some point.
I literally reinstalled the game thanks to Soter Dave's guides, can't believe these scumbags didn't even apologize for that ban and then tried to save face with a tonedeaf reddit post.
I thought nothing could make me reinstall Mordhau but this + the demonhorde mode just did.
nah if U killed yourself over a game ban thats definitely ur own problems with ur brain
RIP
Chivalry and Mordhau. Cruel rude devs that won't listen to their community and feel like they know better than everyone else because of their huge egos for games that maybe peaked at 50k players on release. Cut from the same cloth in more ways then one...
RIP Dave, thanks for this video.
I only started playing Chiv 2 because a dev mod playing in a pub server on Mordhau banned my account for a year for swearing "excessively".
What a terrible situation all around...
Literally the same thing was happening to Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes and best content creators were banned for exposing how easy it was to cheat in the game. At least nobody died there, rest in peace Soter Dave.
first mordhau with whatever the fuck triternion is doing, and now Torn Banner.
Healthy Genre i say /s.
Is like the real fault are for people like you or something...
Rip 20mm. He was a great friend of mine for many years...
thanks for this
Commented on the original because I hugely disagreed with how it was presented, for obvious reasons. Respect for editing/reuploading it.
That said, still a little iffy on the reupload. The whole "It could have been the thing that pushed him over the edge" just feels so needless, because if it's true that him being banned pushed him over the edge, then there are a million different things that also could have (and likely WOULD have) done that too. Not the mention, the "when games kill" title is still implying Torn Banner is to blame for his death. Just feels like it's being less overt than the original video.
imo, there is no good way to make a video tying in Dave's suicide with Torn Banner's treatment of him. It just makes it look like you're trying to use his death to push an agenda (an agenda I totally agree with.)
There is also absolutely no way they get a free pass. They mistreated a struggling man, and they deserve to be called out for it. Someone has to talk about it, and so far I'm the only one
@@Liniyka All they did was a ban, "They mistreated a struggling man" how would they even know about this? they're a company, what calling out? this ban doesn't have anything to do with his death and no one could know unless the person who banned him were very close and knew and banned intentionally to break him more, which isn't the case
@@Liniyka I'm not saying they should be given a free pass. I'm saying the ban should be talked about separately from his suicide. Tying both things together for one vid just comes across as using the suicide to try to make a point.
Their treatment of Dave can be horrible without needing to bring the guy's death into it.
@@s.e.c.u.8340 Well on you or me all they did was a ban. Have Twitch randomly ban Asmongold for no reason and watch the reaction. Even G0at from Tarkov didn't get an account ban for what HE did and he actively experimented with cheats for a while for a video on a Smurf account. The Wiggle That Killed Tarkov. Let me watch you build a community of well over 5 thousand people and then nuke it and see what you do. Like obviously you're probably not as self destructive, but it wouldn't mean that you WOULDN'T get depressed for a while. That shit would make you angry and sad if you couldn't get your work and progress back. Spending over 20hrs editing, recording, and performing all for some asshole to press a button and now what right? So it's just a ban for him where it would be for you and me. You and I are not making money from something we CAN get banned from.
@@s.e.c.u.8340 glad to see theres at least a few other people in here who can think with reason and logic rather than just emotion.. TB had their role to play, sure. But blaming them solely for this is just uncalled for.
Lmao i just got done watching the original right before it was deleted, i wonder how different this one will be?
Not that different, just a lot less hate in the second part of the vid
In an effort to make the game relevant it seems that Chivalry 2 is now for free on Epic...Are you kidding me? The Steam comments brought me to this video, and I am glad I did. Damn
Buddy had problems far greater than getting banned from a video game
If video games are making you sui ci dal then you aint certainly aint prepared for real life
@@user-vv1gp5nk2eHe was a veteran you idiot
@@user-vv1gp5nk2e I think it was likely more a case of the straw that broke the camels back. It's highly unlikely that this was all because he got banned. Most likely expelnation is that he was going through something IRL and this was jsut the little nudge that sent him over the edge. Of course as stated in the video this not being the tirgger as opposed to the bomb doesn't excuse the unacceptable behaviour displayed by torn banner.
Maybe that's why this was the last straw. Think before you speak.
natural selection, imagine doing this because of a video game lmao.
This honestly is both heartbreaking and infuriating. Never took the chance to delve deeper into the game to notice those issues, mainly because I didn't play when the hacker issues arose, but seeing how immature-- no; despicable and inhumane to not only permaban someone leaving constructive criticism, but also then fakely mourn his suicide short after is just abhorrent. Won't play the game again and will leave a negative review. Thanks for pointing this out to the rest of the playerbase. Also, I'll be leaving this comment mainly to boost the algorithm in your favor, so more players know of this news.
A reviewbombing happened already and had no effect. Its a shitty situation aye but isnt it just as odd to blame a single game ban for someone's self-termination?
there had to be other stuff to it. ...either that or I'm seriously overestimating his mental stability.
@@shoulderpyro Hey I was a friend and clanmate of Dave, I commented a bit ago clearing up some of the confusion though I understand I'm a little late to the party (there's been more than a few videos like this one popping up, and seeing my friend's death misrepresented on youtube isnt the easiest thing to watch). If you want a proper explanation of what happened go find my comment, otherwise i'll just leave it at Dave struggled with poor mental health for a very long time and the impact of his ban was negligible in his decision to kill himself from the understanding we gained from his family.
@@No_Feelings I meant no disrespect with my comment either. I do genuinely feel for those he left behind. But seeing videos like these just.. well. Piss me off. Even if I did not know him personally, these videos just feel like they use his untimely passing to boost their own views and income.
I'll look for your comment later, as I've got to leave for work in a bit. Thanks for the information.
If they do this damage to Chivary, imagine what they will do to No mo room in hell 2?
Damn this is sad, RIP Sator Dave
im almost positive that this kind of situation with torn banner has happened before in the past, as well as like a few other valve games lol
this message should be spread
I appreciate you covering this. I noticed you talked about the lack of coverage from other creators and its understandably frustrating. I am also at fault for this as I was working on a project with other editors for Dave's channel which took a lot of my time. I have been working on a script which covers, in depth, the entirety of the situation and how he felt about the whole thing, similar to your video. Again, thank you for putting this out there.
dont own it on steam, but left a message on their discord before i left
oh wow Soter Dave i watched him when Chivalry 2 came out!
To what point are we getting right now? A videogame brand can't just be turned down for a bad desition.
While Soter Dave was an amazing content creator and his guides will always be remembered you can't just put the blame on Torn Banner.
I was against the ban; while Soter move was not wise at all as the ban was then justified. I personally think it was to be removed, or even he would be able to play the next game in 2, 3 years maybe.
Thing is no matter how much you appreciate a person; Ultimately they didn't end the guys life, he did and there was no way they knew the outcome.
As far as we know Torn banner could be made by exceptional people and just a strict policy about cheat spread yet you guys want to put a man's life on them...not cool, ridiculus even.
This ain't a side battle, this was just terrible news.
Long live Soter and my deepest respect for his family.
This is seriously messed up. Company greed at its finest. Ruining an entire game for lack of reasoning and costing someone their life
Blud really dedicated his entire life on a game to the point he'd game end himself over it
Saw your review on steam before buying, was so shocked and appalled that I had to look into it. This is disgusting.
The devs were wrong for banning the guy in the first place, but in NO WAY are they responsible for his suicide. Nobody had any idea what Dave was going through, and the ban was essentially the "last straw" for him. If a depressed gambler calls out a casino for shoddy practices, gets banned from that casino, then kills himself, is it really the casino's fault?The fact that people are going after the devs for this is pathetic, and just shows how immature the Chivalry 2 community is.
Going after the devs for their terrible behavior isn't pathetic in the slightest, regardless if their decisions influenced Dave or not (probably did)
@@LiniykaGoing as far to call the devs "murderers" and claiming they are responsible for a man's suicide IS pathetic. How did anyone on the team know Dave was going to kill himself? How are you supposed to react in a situation like this?
No, that is indeed too much, hence why the reupload. But they do deserve to be criticized. They are a company and they make money off of people - so it is only fair that these people hold them to a higher standard
i still don't see how the devs behaviour is "terrible" or why you feel the need to tell the masses to leave reviews on steam.
the devs are not responsible for his actions.
I won't make any comments on your person danny because i would rather think that your point of view comes from a dumb child or an edgy teenager.
They clearly went out of their way to be as petty as possible not only for the ban but also for contacting him afther the incident if not why make sure Dave knew his pleas for a solution where falling on deaf ears?, the game was crumbling i am sure that his ban wasnt the only problem they had in their hands yet among the player reports, bugs and exploits they made a point out of answering to Dave, to make him know there was no way back. The devs petty as they are like sick dogs wanted a gotcha moment to make an example out of him, i know this because they are not an exception but sadly a common occurrence among, (if we can still consider them), the indi dev scene, from calling out in forum's to discord bans over nonsense, i have witness all and also play a part in it, afther all a rat recognizes other rats, obviously they didn't knew Dave would do what he did, nor anyone could have, yet they still with malice and ill will knew that they could hurt him damage him; i can recall from the top of my head when a discord mod out of eagerness to punish a recurring and active member of the community of a certain game i won't mention, decided to go out of his way to stalk said person screen shot his conversations on a public forum and use them for basis for a ban from the discord, thankfully he didn't held more power over the user's usage of the actual game and could still enjoy it, what did he said when asked what he did?, "i just had to get rid of an annoying fly" he answered, afther talking with the victim apparently the mod had gotten mad because unbeknownst to him and other already banned people, they poked fun at a certain "perk" (to called it some way) the mod had designed, calling it useless and redundant, this was apparently enough to trigger the petty rat hidden inside the mod; this and other cases, or meltdowns, clearly paint a picture for me that the rats at Torn Barn Studios wanted to harm Dave, yes i dont expect sympathy from a casino even less from a company, but actions like this can only be taken by people who's behavior is only compared with hungry vicious horrendous animals, afther all cruelty, and punishment was only possible for them thanks to the power they held over Dave, driven and afforded by the love and passion he expressed for the game, pathetic where only and will only be those that seeked to harm him, and the ones that fail to acknowledge the damage that was done to him by the actions taken by the rats at banner studios, their motives where clear they are no saints to plea innocent nor evade reprimands or their involvement.
Me after seeing the title:
"Is that why the game never got polished? So much for being the one to replace For Honor."
I was on my way to get the game for free on epic games but after watching this I am absolutely not stooping down to such a disgusting level to support the devs, absolutely heartbreaking that this has happened.
Ok had to rewatch this again. It's really commendable that you take comments to heart and decided to take a step back and reassess. However, this still ain't it. You're still laying the blame on the devs for Dave's decision to take his own life. Describing it as a defining nudge in a critical moment is just as incriminating as your last framing of the events. The title: when games kill. Does little to disabuse people of that notion.
So I'll try to repeat my comment because I think it still stands: The decision to take his own life is ON HIM and ON HIM alone. Laying ANY blame on the devs is callous and gross. He could have moved on and found meaningful experiences elsewhere. He could have circumvented the ban and kept playing. He could have not dedicated hours upon hours to a game that by your own admission, often fails to deliver the bare minimum. The devs didn't make him devote his life to the game and they certainly didn't make him post the hack instructions in a public video. All they did is make a game to the best (even if it's nowhere near good enough) of their abilities and enforce their ToS using their best (even if it's not very good) judgement.
We can 't expect anyone to be walking on eggshells on the off chance we might be on the edge of doing something regrettable. That's not how life works. We can act as humanely and kindly as possible, sure, but ultimately we're the masters of our own fate, captains of our own ship. If one of the devs decided to take his/her own life after watching the video would we have to lay the blame on you?
No, riddiculous. So, this video still looks like an oportunistic attempt at rallying discontent against the devs using Dave's tragedy as fuel. Not great.
I think you're still a bit caught on the original message. That's not what I'm saying here. In this one, I'm trying to put emphasis on how easily they discarded such an important person in their community because of 1 slip up. If they practiced what they preached, and approached him with kindness and respect, they could have been the ones to turn his life around. Imagine how awesome that would be. But alas, they just cut him off because they could, and because they knew the community wouldn't complain too much. After all, that's the norm these days.
tl/dr - regardless of whether it impacted Dave or not, this kind of terrible behavior needs to be called out
@@Liniyka See that's the issue: It's not on them to change his life around. His life was HIS to turn around. They are not tasked with being a positive, nurturing or healing influence in his life. They're certainly not responsible for whatever he does if they turn to be the opposite (especially if they felt his stance was adversarial and detrimental to their vision for the game). They may have been overzealous in their ban, sure, but saying Chivalry Killed is just not true. It's a toxic interpretation of the events and like I said, it only serves your intention to leverage discontent against the devs. I suspect you'll be in the chopping block next.
At the end of the day, it's a game. If he had such a personal stake in it that he couldn't see himself being alive after a ban (which I doubt and I'm guessing there's a huge amount of compounding factors at play) that's on him for not balancing his life properly. Not on the devs. The takeaway here shouldn't be that devs need to take their work dead serious because it's all some really depressed people have. It should be that you should never see a game as your life. And if you do, you'd do well in choosing a game in which you actually get along well with the dev team.
And again, you haven't changed the video enough for people to draw other conclusions from it. It still has the same title, premise and reasoning.
Isn't it quite literally the job of community managers to foster a healthy and positive community? And I don't mean to watch over every single CC to make sure they're OK, but just, at least, not being trigger happy like that.
Didn't change the vid enough? Maybe. But at this point changing anymore would be taking away from what I wanted to say. Right or wrong, this is how I feel.
@@Liniyka Their perspective of a healthy community didn't include him, obviously. Right or wrong, that's not a reason to off yourself and it certainly doesn't put the devs on the hook for his death. That's all i'm saying: that laying the actions of the dev team as context for the suicide is misleading, unfair and, again, quite callous in my opinion. I ask you again because you didn't answer: what would happen if your disparaging comments against the devs were followed by the suicide of one of them and then cited as the reason for it? Would you expect society to blame you?
Be honest now.
That would be an entirely different situation, in no way similar to this one.
FairAndReasonable-pilled
you should show more of what you are talking about for example the bugs introduced in the new patches, because i have not played this game and have no clue what you are talking about
It's because the bugs actually have been fixed by Tornbanner
Honestly glad you re-did this, again, no offense, but the first was certainly reaching on a lot of points
God loves you all and has a pan for your life
I just got the game from epic games since it is the free game this week. I looked through Steam to see what the mixed reviews were about and one linked this video. That's some cruel shit just because someone hurt their ego. I guess I'll kick the game if that's the type of company they are. And even if I were to play it I as a noob would just have to endure godless amounts of hackers anyways. Thank you for the video and I hope you won't face any retaliation from the devs.
I didn’t know companies were hiring mouth breathing tweens with power trips to their PR teams
are we playing the same game?
Literally, I haven't seen any issues with the game and I've been playing for years
@@fennikk2433 dude thank you, I have been playing also for years im like level 500 and ive never seen a cheater ever in my entire life
Same. I've been playing since the release and never encountered cheaters or any major bugs. Chivalry 2 ain't getting a bad review on steam from me.
@@TheNazgulBird dude thank you, you're totally right. i've never seen any of this shit. these guys are fucking sensitive or some shit.
So thornback soter dave did not cheat, but was banned?
Rip Soter Dave
Now the game is for free on Epic Games and I eagerly want to play it (after positive experience with Chiv 1), but after hearing these problems, as well as cheater issue (which is now going to be even more severe) I doubt I will enjoy it
holy shit this is tragic :( I was looking at the game on steam and saw some reviews mentioning this. Guess I'll try Mordhau then
legit, only had at most 2 hours in Chivalry 1 on steam (the only place i bought it). my bro, who ACTUALLY enjoys the game, starts playing, through family share. Devs BAN ME because they said i was smurfing. HOW THE FUCK WAS I SMURFING I HAD LESS HOURS THEN MY BRO AND I'M THE FUCKING OWNER! They're a horrible dev team who don't use their heads and i believe are doing some shady as fuck shit.
This is some dope logic m8
NGL much like my comment on the og vid, you didn't really change the main accusatory point, it really comes off as you using his passing as a tool to complain about the devs. They may be guilty of not taking criticism well and being petty assholes but that's by no means cause to act like they are somehow directly responsible, again i hate to say it but it REALLY comes off as you just tying to dunk on the devs and make a vid about it. Again I hope that's not the case but it's super hard not to see it as such.
Yeah, that's the vibe I get, too. Mental health IS important, but nobody is omniscient. Way too much blame tossing here to make me take the call to action seriously.
If anything, the longer I've got this playing while looking through comments the more I get the vibe hes unhappy the original reviewbomb didnt pan out as expected and now reuploaded it to try it a second time.
..either that or just using someone's death to boost their own attention
Regardless, this should still get to bigger youtubers.,
The chivalry 2 balancing and overall development direction are why i stopped supporting them and playing their game. How I wish mordhau or even mf for honor would pull something out of left field to give the audience niche something better than a game made by shitty torn banner
yes new content 9 updates thought 4 years and destroying class
I think that Torn Banner is just too inept to fix the cheating problem. I dont see any reason why they would benefit from duel servers being infested with hackers
I enjoyed the first Chiv and was looking to pick up CH2 in a sale... until I came across this on the Steam forums. Wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot halberd now.
I hate this game, and I hate the people who made it. I've got a really great, very angry, but heart of pure gold Best Friend who loves this game and streams it. Your message at the end was something I couldn't have said better, and no one could hold any of that against you. It's INCREDIBLY awful to include that canned statement about mental health that - essentially makes fun of those who suffer most. "If you need help, call this loser line that the nice people set up for losers like you who have no one to talk to" I've been in the lowest parts of life and there are no miracles, except the ones keeping these idiots gainfully employed and keeping their families fed. Only God knows why.
Sadly, can't leave bad review, cause my copy of the game was bought in EGS. But I wouldn't touch Chiv 2 after this video.
banning him for that is next level petty
I want to like Chiv 2 and get into it, but Mordhau is a cruel mistress
I looked at a few of Dave’s videos, and thought they were pretty cool, and then I fell down the deepest rabbit hole I’ve ever gone down after reading just a few too many com
Ents.
To all the people saying the devs shouldnt be blamed...i disagree.
Sure they shouldnt get ALL the blame, who would have seen it coming? However...banning him without any discussion, effectively stumping and trashing his revenue, did NOT help, and they handled the situation terribly. Like someone else said, its not to indifferent to banning an athlete from sports.
And lets not mention their other behaviors, before and after...
If a person is in a place that’s so bad and dark that a game ban is the last straw towards the decision of ending their own LIFE only means that it already was very bad, something way more personal was going on in his life and the ban likely contributed to his last decision but I don’t know if the devs can be held accountable for his decision. Either way, condolences to the family.
i don't even play chiv why this got recommended ?
I just refunded this game after finding this out.
if he killed himself over a video game then L bozo
Bad Devs Good Game, sadge
You can't blame Torn Banner for this. While I agree that Torn Banner handled the ban and his death terribly, you directly blaming them for his death and claiming that the ban pushed him over the edge when you don't really know anything surrounding his situation. Anything could have happened and while I'm not taking the side of TB (they were, once again, horrible), nobody could have ever known how he was really feeling or what he was capable of doing. His death was preventible like all suicides, but only through doctors and therapy. TB sucks, I know, but trying to say it was their fault harms the community just as much as TB's mishandling of Soter Dave.
Agreed. It sucks that they decided to perma ban him, thats bad for sure but did they know that he would commit suicide? I think not. Surely noone at TB would have permabanned him if they knew so.
You know what, no, I think some blame can be laid at the feet of torn banner. This game was his livelihood. If say an athlete were banned from a league for a bullshit reason, and then took his own life, I would partially blame the people who banned him, same goes for this.
Nobody is harmed by blaming torn banner
Didn't see anything in this video that would be a solid proof that the ban was actually the reason for commiting sudoku, but if it's true the way you say it - all i can say is lol.
Lol, the dude ended his ENTIRE LIFE over getting a ban in a videogame. I call this natural selection.
Shesh had no idea this went down, Rip Soter dave.
I have never heard of this man, and i play mordhau not Chiv2. That being said, I highly doubt he killed himself over a ban in a videogame. Especially one that you say he wasnt even happy with to begin with. He probably had a lot going on with his real life, the Chiv2 thing is likely insignificant. What mentally stable person would do that? Thats actually a completely insane thing to do. If he really did it over that, then the only person that could be held accountable would have been himself. Trying to blame specific people because a crazy person did a crazy thing is childish and pathetic.
I feel like you've subconsciously connected the dots without looking into any other background information and are now trying to use a mans suicide to push for change in a game.
If he killed himself entirely over a game then I actually don't feel bad for the guy, thats one of the most ridiculously stupid deaths in human history.
It had nothing to do with his ban, some of dave's other clanmates and I have talked with his family who confirmed that. This guy is just using our friend's death to make a hit piece.
Private lessons you has to pay for you mean lol
im really sorry for him. but REALLY.....if someone takes his life because of a situation like that, its definitly not the fault of some video game developers, thats insane. you cant blame that on other people.........."they could have saved his life" Eeerm just NO???
WTF
It isn't fair to put any of the blame on TBS. They suck, don't get me wrong, but there is no way they could have known that banning Dave would result in something like this, if it had anything to do with his decision at all. Two things can be true at once, TBS is a bad company riddled with internal problems akin to a middle school lunch table, and Dave had issues that he chose not to seek help for.
Meh, at the end of the day, there were a million ways Soter Dave could have reacted to getting banned that didn't involve dying. I find it hard to sympathize for someone that would take their own life off a game that apparently the entire community admit is mediocre anyway.
None of his friends or family blame TB nor did any of the guys he ran a podcast with but I guess you knew him better. It is fair to say that him getting banned from the game contributed to a decline in his mental health but even if this game was his life that would not make someone want to fucking kill themselves. To continue to perpetuate this in your video and in its comments is pathetic and downright disgusting.
"It is fair to say that him getting banned from the game contributed to a decline in his mental health" - yeah, that's my point. They acted like assholes, and they deserve to be called out for it.
@@Liniyka You literaly insinuate in the title of this video that he would still be alive today if TB had not banned him. You even spell it out clearly in one of your comments, "Going after the devs for their terrible behavior isn't pathetic in the slightest, regardless if their decisions influenced Dave or not (probably did)". Do understand why you are the self-proclaimed "only one" to make a video on TB role in this situation and not any of his friends? Seriously ask yourself that question. I personally think it is because they are adults who think that blaming his suicide on a game is fucking ridiculous. But since you new him better than anybody I'd love to hear what you have to think.
@@FreeAvalon If they acted like decent human beings, I believe the future could have been different, yes. However small that possibility is. And if you believe that their actions did not influence him in the slightest, I disagree, and that's all there is to say.
@@Liniyka They didn't know what Dave was going through. They acted like anyone would in their situation. He showed people how to cheat and they banned him without malice or special treatment. I wish they did give him special treatment maybe a warning or even a temporary ban, but unfortunately, it didn't go that way. At the end of the day, Dave made his decision himself nobody bullied him into it. I don't know if you truly believe in the bullshit you're saying or if you are just trying to get cheap views and subscriptions for your Patreon. If it is the former answer my question: Why are you the self-proclaimed "only one" to make a video on TB's role in this situation and not any of his friends? Do you have some information even they don't know? I would love to hear what you have to say, maybe it will enlighten me.
@@LiniykaThis isn't how we ever treat suicide. If someone is mistreated by another person in a minor way before their suicide, we don't tell them "If you weren't an asshole, he might have survived." Typically we do the opposite and reassure people that it's not their fault, because we can't go around assuming every minor thing we do could potentially kill someone.
FYI, I call this a minor thing because at the end of the day, it's just an unwarranted videogame ban. It's definitely not a fair thing to do, but any person in a healthy state of mind is not going to end their life over it. You don't try to put a person's death on someone (or a company) when there's no reasonable expectation for them to know it could cause them to end their life.
This leaves a bad taste playing Chivalry 2. Shame, i love the game. Guess ill move on to Bannerlord
Are you enjoying bannerlord? I've played it off and on and always rage quit after I lose my 300 man army
He's deleting comments that point out his own bullshit.
Your comment is now deleted
@@Liniykapretty low
@@Richard-uz9yr well it's not deleted, hasn't it?
@@TokenMCPE when this dude called him out he tried to disprove his statement by keeping his comment up to make him look like he didn’t delete comments
@@TokenMCPE He's deleted multiple other people comments that started to get too many reactions. Personally over the original and this video, he's deleted 4 of mine. He's trying to be a smart ass despite me having proof that he's been deleting comments. Only way to show it is to either post it online in some forum or post a video. Either way it would be free promotion for the guy with no real morals.
I was about to download this for free on Epic Games but after small research and this video, I wont even do that. RIP Soter.
Wait did he commit s*icide?
Unfortunately, he did
@@Liniyka I remember watching him and i though it was a joke at first, the fact that torn banner doesn't even give a damn is disgusting
RIP Dave, BUT... believing the game was the main reason is in my opinion silly. yes, TB fucked up every aspect, but throwing the guilt on them and only them does not make sense and is not helping in this situation
plus the talk in the end "please remember what the did" is disgusting. Don't use somebody's else tragedy to fight over a video game dude
They didn’t know that he was gonna kill himself. There’s definitely some other thing that happened behind the scenes that made him do this also depression.
You can’t just blame torn banner for his suicide. Getting banned from chivalry two (I know the depressed people don’t think very clearly but still) getting banned from chivalry two sure it might suck, but it’s not gonna make someone commit suicide. you never know what’s really going on in someone’s life if all you know about them is their online activity.
My brother in christ...HE killed himself.
I could understand banning him if he was genuinely promoting cheats, but the devs could have done some due diligence to recognize that’s not the role he played in the community.
I don’t think it’s fair to blame the devs for someone else taking their life. There was not persistent bullying, and even though it was a joke, he still broke the rules.
We don’t know what was going on in this man’s life that pushed him to make a permanent decision like that, but there’s a good chance it was more than a video game ban.
Stridah still hasn't said anything in a video I'm curious to see his side
This is pretty gross. What kind of person uses a terrible tragedy to bitch about a video game... Be better.
Hmm? I'm complaining about Torn Banner's behavior, not the game
@@Liniyka Be better.
@@2Cats_ina_Trenchcoatbased on what objective morality do you prescribe? Muh feels? Get off your high horse
Imagine really loving fishing, sell the fish to make a living, you create content to supplement that. You call out the local government for something stupid they did, then they ban you from fishing. Thats basically what happened here. Imagine basing your whole life on something you really enjoy and have passion for then to have it taken in an instant...
Bruh its a video game
womp womp its a video game LMAOOO
@@user-vv1gp5nk2e wrong, it's someone's lively hood if they actively create content for it FOR A LIVING. 🤡 I hope you get fired from your job then have to end it all.
@@turboterps wrong, it's someone's lively hood if they actively create content for it FOR A LIVING. 🤡 I hope you get fired from your job then have to end it all.
Stupid comment. Soter Dave was definitely someone who "created content on fish," but he did not "sell the fish to make a living" in your analogy. The people who "sell the fish to make a living" are the people that make and sell the game, AKA the developers. Soter Dave doesn't catch fish to later sell to himself. He buys the fish (game) from the fishermen (game devs) through the marketplace (Steam/Epic), and then creates content with it.
i liked chivalry one and wanted to play chivalry 2 (cause the first game is dead)
but after watching this...never gonna touch the game.
666 likes
And once again I feel compelled to point out that no matter how tragic this is, pinning all the blame solely on TB for this seems a bit..
...shitty?
Aye I know you put it in your own pinned comment - but theres still far too many people who put the blame for his self-termination solely on being banned from a single game. Which, while it sucks, should not be a reason to do this.
Video games and the choices made by developers have nothing to with the mental health and personal struggles of the individual's that play them. Any action taken by an individual is just that, an individual's action.
Ah, yes. Because everyone lives in a vaccum. Every man is an island, and YOU especially are a big strong and brave gigachad with a massive penis who is totally above anything that could ever happen to him and all the events of the world around you.
If you're just a contrarian, I caution you not to sprain your wrist jerking yourself off. If you're one of the Torn Banner dev team, perhaps it would have been better if you and Dave switched places.
that's crazy blaming a Gaming company for the death of a SUICIDAL GUY