Bomber Problem of War Thunder
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Gaijin made bombers useless in War Thunder because... uh, who knows?
Patreon - / liniyka
00:00 - Intro
01:17 - Good ol' Days
04:26 - Sad Reality
07:11 - Bleak Future
#warthunder #warthundergameplay #warthunderguide #warthunderbomber #warthunderreview #warthunderplane #warthundergrind #bomber - Ігри
Now a days a fighter looks at you and both your wings explode and the engines fall off and your pilot shoots himself in the head
*insert meme of skeleton holding fence while blowing up*
You have a hole in your left wing!
They should remove the gunner nerd from a few years back.
@@lorenmax2.013 (Proceeds to look over and see there is no left wing)
if he doesn't i do
Bomber gameplay is like fly to 4000 meters and get killed by an intercepter.Bro just at that point play a fighter bomber or strike aircraft
Its just so frustrating that so many great planes are basically unplayable like my favorite the PbJ-1H. Wtf are you supposed to do in air RB? Cannon AA kils?
@@levipierson4946 Bomber gameplay is engaging enough for the monkeys that spend 8 hoursa a day grinding
literally this. Want to be a fighter bomber? Buy the Wyvern. Want to be a strategic bomber? Buy the wyvern. Want a good CAS bomber for ground real? Wyvern. Want to get the boys together and fly B17's in formation? Cool. 2 dead before the obj, would have made it if yall bought the wyvern. Good ol Gaij.
It’s not about the fact that it’s a bomber. It’s that they’re iconic and cool. The B-17 is amazing and so are a bunch of other beautiful strategic bombers.
@@levipierson4946 fr
Another reason why the gaijin belongs in the basement.
Exactly.
Yes
Yes. they be smokin meth and dont give 2 shits about bombers. why the f do we even bother to play the game?
Spawn in as a bomber, and the team has 6 wyverns.
If you were experiencing that between 3-1 months ago, that would have been because of me and a group
@@ryanm.191 I hope you guys had fun because I sure as hell didnt.
Its not the wyverns you gotta worry about. Its the whirlwinds
So you side climb and wait for the bases to respawn or go for the airfield.
@@obsidianjane4413 match either over or there's still some random dude chasing you
Every time I am tempted to play war thunder, I watch a video like this one, and I am cured for a year or two
You need a WT rehab playlist
Yeah very spooky because I just got back into it, I was aware the game was a grind fest and a time stink. But this kind of stuff doesn't seem particularly nice.
Me too buddy
Broo same! SAME!
Yeah. I broke my monetised frustration addiction at the end of last year. I'm glad when I see videos like this, as I get tempted sometimes to start up the game again and play my old favourite BRs. 3.7-5.7 in Air RB, and 4.3-7.0 in Ground RB. But then I remember, Ju288 spam. Salty players in ground RB. And the once very good graphics starting to look more and more cartoonish... I'm glad I'm out. Anyone wanna buy an account with most things up until about 10.3? ***** JOKING!
As a bomber enthusiast myself, the reason I played bombers is not because they are op or the are ""easy"" to use, but because I always found the role of a bomber crew, specially in WW2, somethings interestling. My dream with this game was to fly in big bomber formations bombing targets like if I were helping my side (Allies/Axis) on winning the War.
War Thunder completely lost that core feeling of "WW2 being majestic and somewhat poetic", and became a regular and lame shooter game.
Yes
You dream to have a high casualty rate? Lol
@@SacredHeartEnjoyer high casualty rate or not, bombers won the war. Ground forces couldn’t have progressed an inch away from Omaha without them.
Facts!!!
big plane big bombs big fun
Be a bomber:
-Rush straight for the nearest base you see.
-Drop your payload on that base and blow it up, if you manage to even make it there.
-Get shredded by an enemy plane pretty much directly afterwards, considering if said enemy plane didn't shoot you down before you got to the base.
-Repeat this unbearably painful process over and over again in order to grind out another plane to do the exact same thing with.
That was one of the two things that can happen though. Here's the alternative:
-Immediately point your plane to the sky ceiling the second you air spawn.
-Become untouchable.
-Do absolutely nothing the entire game except make circles around the map while being 30 miles up in the air, running the timer down.
-Waste everyone's time.
Last time I was this early War Thunder was a WWII only game with no jets and bombers reigned supreme.
Those were good days
That lasted like a few months.
We had jets since the earliest of days. You are bullshiting.
War thunder was never a "WW2 only" game
We had sabres as early as 2014-2015
We had even earlier jets aswell.
Yeah it was MOSTLY WW2 shit brother @@Dominikuuu
@@Dominikuuu the only available Jet in 2013 was the Salamander, and that was for almost 2 years.
Looks like you joined the snail after i started playing
@@crlourenco88
So i was correct
We had jets in 2013
And from 2014-2015 we had even more jets im still correct
I hate how Gaijin only cares about top tier, even though the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't. Barely anyone has or plays top tier, the vast majority only have or play WW2 or Cold War stuff, yet their issues get no attention.
yes Its a bad way of developing a game
While I love top tier and mainly play it I must say that the entire game is as usual being developed mainly for money, I feel as if most of the developers do it for the money or because that's what they're told to do. The entire game needs to get fixes: air rb in general (in top tier it's just pvp, with every other br the game mode still focuses on pvp, and air rb ec is a good idea terribly executed ), air Sim (this one just needs help, better objectives, more objectives, perhaps add helicopters), 2.0 or higher for naval needs a general redesign, the heli game mode is an absolute joke, needs to be almost redesigned (perhaps adding helicopters to air Sim would be a good idea, as they could potentially act as Sam sites keeping aircraft of the deck) and there's so many areas of the game that have been untouched since too long (pve air and ground)
and br decompression is greatly needed, the game needs some help
Cause people see the top tier, want to play it, don't want to grind and then pay. The Snail only cares about money
because the top tier players are the whales and us low tier players are the ftp leeches in their eyes
I really wish there was some feature that allowed a player who is dead in the match opt into being someone's gunner.
The pilot could kick the person at anytime in case they're a troll.
But it'd be awesome to have a multi-crew vehicle actually feel like it. And it'd give players something to do once you're shot down.
M e and my friend talked about how cool it would be to have a multiplayer bomber in war thunder were like 2 people are in a bomber one flys and drops bombs while the other uses the gunners
@@spaceman2464 100% there's no reason the pilot should have to do EVERYTHING. That was the whole point of having multiple crew.
Such a feature existis in Battlefield 1942 MP, so it's not innovatine, just another gameplay aspect
@@Heavy_thoughts exactly, it's been in most battlefield games for a while.
But 2 players in the same vehicle would be a new thing for warthunder devs
sounds like people would be having fun for free. cant have that.
Gets a bomber in arcade, get shot by a single 7.62 from 3 km away, explode completely.
Thats an unlucky random shot to the bomb-bay I am afraid. Do remember they made bombers more realistic so that bombs on pylons and inside bomb bays could detonate when damaged like irl. If you don't think it's realistic there are many reports and even footage of bombers being hit by flak and their entire payload detonated in the bomb bay leaving not a single large structural piece of bomber intact in the explosion. (A particular piece of footage comes to mind of a cloud that was a Lancaster).
@@FutureFlash2034 the thing is that your bomber still desintegrates even with all bombs dropped.
@@C0lon0 If they are german grenade cannon rounds there is not a single thing you can do because it's sadly realistic. When the germans started using their minengeshoss rounds from 20mm upwards, most bombers including B-17's and Lancasters had entire wings blown apart by 1 to 2 shells. There is test footage where british testers fired a 30mm minengeshoss round at the fuselage of a tempest, and the entire tail section was blown apart and off of the fuselage because of overpressure. There are also imagines of B-17's coming back limping home were 1 20mm round detonated just before the rear spar but somehow did not destroy the spar.
Bomber wings are constantly under load, which means if they get badly damaged or destroyed your wing will fold. "Cough cough any bomber hit by flak near a wing or fuselage section".
@@C0lon0 And do remember most of a bomber is aerodynamic sheeting and internal electronics/hydraulics, weapons and structural spars in the wings to hold the structure together. The rest of it like the sheeting for the skin is thin like paper and will disentegrate given the weight of the frame overloading it if it where to become a stress point. It's only in the modern world were mono-coque designs are common but you still use spars so it all shares the load.
@@C0lon0 My point being Bombers from WW2 other than Wellington Bombers using geodesic structural design, are spar and ribbing design. Meaning if your spars get damaged beyond their strength to hold their normal load, they will fail and that skin will do nothing to hold the aircraft together.
Gaijins biggest problem isn't just that they don't balance things properly, its that they couldn't care less about what the players want or their input regarding the game
They have no reason to care. They just want to sell premiums.
Why balance the game when you can make money by making players understand that if they want to win, they need very specific vehicles and once they get a taste for these vehicles, offer them ones with more missiles or better by 200% you can buy the premium version for the minimum of $69.99
they dont care because allways will have dumbasses around to give money to them regardless of how shit the state of the game
Bro, gaijin cares more about the money and less about the community. We need to rebel again and change bombers and dont make the grind take 10 years.
@@malinotterstrom882 did you remember when they said that they were going to fix the economy? result: they just improved premium account, and did some stupid 1500-100SL reduction of "some" vehicles repair costs, premium whales loved, and everybody else forgot about this, and if you say that the economy sucks around there you get swarmed by dumbasses saying "skill issue"
Am I watching Bomber PvP gameplay? lmao nice
Speaking of bomber pvp I just played the B-18 bolo at 1.3, got a melee kill on a condor.
@@PzIV-E Try british flying boats sometimes. These things straight up bully everything in downtier.
Air naval gamemode!?!?!??!?
@@PzIV-E the rank 1 soviet bomber is also a very nimble and deadly little shit to use to harrass dumbass rank 1 players.
Welpz, bombers that have anything in their turrets other than cock sucking 7,7s and their grown up sisters offering full menu, 12,7s are actually useful. Try Pe-8. Most of time I just bully enemy fighters with 20mms. One time I got 3 kills in one game. That's right. 3 kills. In bomber.
I like how World of Warplanes, even through their reputation was already ruined, still put in the effort to revamp their game and after 5 years, produced a result where bombers are actually balanced & relevant. Wargaming handled strategic bombers better than Gaijin ever did.
World of Warplanes's main mode, "Conquest," is Air RB but better. There are multiple bases, but unlike War Thunder, the weird HP-circle system is gone. It's not like you can drop bombs outside the perimeter fencing and still do damage. In WoWp, you actually need to aim for infrastructure. The bases do respawn, but when they return *they're aligned with whoever pounded them to dirt.*
Larger bombers are very hard to take down, similar to old War Thunder. This is mitigated by a key difference, one that I think is one of the core issues of Air RB: you can respawn in WoWp. Just because your sharpshooter turrets kill a Toryu doesn't mean you won't see the same player in a Hurricane IIb 3 minutes later.
You cannot win by two people bombing. But a formation of bombers can turn the game around, especially in mid tiers where radar missiles and rocket pods(on fighters at least) aren't a thing yet. 8:16 On certain modes there are formations of AI bombers, usually five of them. There are also AI heavy fighters & interceptors present on the map that might decide to attack these formations on their own (or players can even order them to do it). Some bases also have two heavy fighters circling at high altitudes that will aggro on them. It's not uncommon for high tier bombers to join the formation, since a bomber flying alone at high alt is an easy kill for top tier jets.
Some of the bombers in a game which never claimed to be realistic have better flight/damage models than in War Thunder. Space climbing is rarely a problem because service ceilings are better implemented. It's much easier to take complete control of the map (and therefore tickets) than to chase after a lone bomber; all bases have soft targets and usually a CAP.
I think you should do a comparison video someday.
That's interesting, I didn't even know that WoWP was still alive
That's actually amazing. As I was watching the video I thought "What if you just give players respawns?" Like in Ground RB if I see a lot of CAS I'm not stuck with a plane, I can spawn in with AA. So if Bombers were trying to win the game I'd spawn in with a heavy fighter or something.
@@Anzei_Kazumi That was Enduring Confrontation, and it really felt imersive
EC is still around, it's just simulator mode.
@@Tobias-wb6kd Almost no one plays sim mode because it's pretty hard to learn if you don't know where to look, and gaijin's tutorials are literally dogshit of the highest degree
It's incredible how gaijin, in order to balance certain things, makes this same things almost useless
"""""balance"""""" in as many quotation marks as you like ^^
In my opinion the biggest problem with bombers back then was their ability to end the matches early by bombing out the airfield. Gaijins biggest mistake was making bombers so laughably fragile a toddler could throw a nerf dart at one and it would fall to pieces.
I LOVED when they added the Tu4 and you had to actually care about and intercept the deadly bombers or lose the game! It was obj based gameplay and it was cool!
bomber HP feels wildly inconsistent, it seems like some of them crumble at the slightest breeze and others will magically eat 200 mineshell rounds
and the bomber hp is so inconsistent too. Like I’ll shoot it and it’s just like “ah yes 500 rounds of 12.7, whatever” yet I play one and my wing just drops off from a single burst of 7.7
@@roguefox4308 I mean half the time they'd be too high up, and the second you try to catch them they run to the edge of the map. It wasnt fun to fight against.
I was really mad when I played a PVE session against Blemheims with my Beaufighter ... and they rip my tail off ! .303 !!!!!!!!!!!!
I never have touched War Thunder Air Mode since.
When I heard "back then" and you mentioned "three bases" I immediately thought "oh we're talking later than back then".
I remember when Berlin was a map with a line of ~16 pillboxes and 16 ISU-152s. Whichever bomber got aligned to that first and had enough bombs to take them out won the match.
It was either that or straight-to-airfield bombing, which almost no bomber could do back in the day.
Bombers were incredibly *never* in a good spot. Ever. When I heard your points it really made me realize this. I'm no bomber player tbh so I couldn't care less for them, but the game would objectively be better if we just had a better game mode which could include aircraft types in a relevant way.
i think aligning air RB to Ground RB would better things out, no marker on enemy, you get to respawn if you were usefull and also adding objective oriented game modes, like enduring confrontation But smaller for shorter games.
Only my humble opinion.
Shit when he said back then I was thinking of the days back when there was ai b17 formations on Battle of the Bulge. I've played this game for a long ass time.
Ive always wanted the idea of adding rewards for escorting/intercepting bombers.
Bring the objectives back to being game ending, give allies rewards for flying close to bombers and attack aircraft, an additional bonus for killing enemies near your bombers, and a large bonus for killing enemy bombers.
Suddenly youve incentivized fighters to protect their bombers, brought a large portion of the fighters off of the deck, and in so doing have made the bomber need to exist in a much busier airspace.
One more thing that would be nice is to make it so that if bombers fly out of bounds in their side of the map, they respawn in a fresh bomber. This would incentivize bombers to keep returning to the battle, rather than either space climbing or leaving the match, while not making a slow ass bomber drop 6000m in 20km, and then have to climb back up with their even slower climb speed. This is an alternative way to simulate bomber squadrons, so players dont have to share bases with ai.
Do a similar thing with ground attackers too while youre at it, they could use some more love
i still want the old 1 hour timer back, the 25min timer can go to high Br jets starting from 8.0
with a smaller scale Enduring confrontation would be very good. like 2/3 of an EC.
I miss the og bombers personally, bomber broadside where so fun. Not to mention bomber where actually usable
I think another thing that hampers bombers in WT is the presence of Attack aircraft and bombs on fighters, which often leads to games being over faster than bomber even have to do anything because a bunch of Wyvern's rushed ground targets and bases and couldn't be stopped because of their stupidly high speed for that BR
(I'm god's strongest Wyvern hater btw)
The Wyvern highlights another big problem with War Thunder - the focus on BR rather than year. If the Wyvern was facing other postwar aircraft it would be a mediocre attacker, but put it up against mid war aircraft and it obviously dominates in ways it shouldn't.
@@MrWillNeedham
Heck, the wyvern can even meet the *ZEROS*
Planes already slow against WWII planes meeting a superprop that can simply run away in a straight line
How TF can you counter that?
My favorite WWII bomber is one of the premium Mustangs. I can carry more tonnage than a some frontline bombers at the same BR and when I've dropped my bombs, I actually get to have fun as a Mustang instead of just waiting for the BF109s to eat me
I've seen a decent suggestion on the forum a while back: make more "impactful" strategic targets with less hp and pepper the battlefield with them. Make them actually do something that influences the match ( for example, destroy X radar sites - bomber formation spawns, or AA becomes less impactful; blow up a bridge - enemy tank are forced to take a longer route etc etc.) That would make bombers a full fledged team work machine, with people being rewarded for cooperation, rather that chew at each others throat. Gos knows this wont happen, as most suggestions just marinade for years, but we can dream.
3:10 The issue with bombers, is an issue with warthunders in general, and one that the community doesn't realize is an issue. The idea that everything needs to be designed that effort and rewards have to be purely equal and nothing can be imbalanced isn't something we really need to get over mentally as a community
Warthunder lacks a way for low skill players to be or feel effective especially in air battles, bombers could've and probably should have been that mechanic for warthunder. Most games have a mechanic specifically designed for this (CODs noobtube, fortnites bots and no build, heavy and soldier TF2, ect) preventing low skill player from feeling useless is something most games go out of their way to do so that player retention remains high, and your bottom 10% of the playerbase doesn't just quit.
I hate this idea that bombers need to be these low-skill noob mobiles. They just need to be given a role and a purpose, so they have something interesting to do.
New player retention is a completely separate issue, and in fact, there's already plenty of 0 IQ planes like XP-50, that allow even the worst of players to do well
@@Liniyka I don't think having a low skill option nessacarly makes something a noob only thing, that's usually a skill issue on the part of the designers, soldier from TF2 is a good example of something that's both good for low skill players and great for higher skill players
If there's a way for bombers to function similarly to that where a bad player can jump in it and be somewhat effective whilst a good player can be incredibly effective that would be the ideal solution
If I were to balance bombers id try and make them very powerful objective pushers, that struggle in player combat; with the ability to avoid prolonged engagements with good game sense. Have bomber gameplay have an strong focus on positioning and situational awareness rather than a core dogfighting skill set would honestly be a welcome change, and would give them a similar role to AB bombers in Air RB. Maybe by returning the ability for bombers to end the game on an airfield destruction, and giving them an in air reload that requires them to be above their runway for RB
I agree that bombers need to be powerful in their own way, but I really don't want their entire gameplay loop to be focused on hiding from other players. Ideally I'd like to see an objective that directs everyone to the same area, because hide&seek is boring
@@Liniyka I don't think having bombers trying to avoid combat nessacarly means there usually not getting into combat, medic (TF2 again) loses a 1v1 to basically every other class in the game and is incentived not to get in fights but because of how influential medic is at least 8 of the 12 opponents are fully willing to trade themselves for a medic pick. Bombers are effectively a support class, not a combat one and there's no real way to make that not true in Air combat
I think encouraging bombers to get escorted and having strong interceptors would make pvp very common for bombers even if it's something bomber try to avoid.
The issue here comes down to air RB being a one spawn gamemode which heavily limited its gameplay loop, in a way that air AB or most other games aren't (Bombers are also usually much more influential in air AB)
gajin already figured out the noob vehicles, its called $60 premium vehicles. also the main issue is that there are too many players in the game, and most of them dont want slower strategic gameplay. they ant fast paced point and click fps style gameplay but with vehicles. all the changes they make to game modes just makes the gameplay faster paced with shorter matches. also look at ground rb, all the new maps are these shitty city maps with narrow corridors, maps that would suit an fps game. it also makes no sense that like 80% of the ground maps are city centric when tanks were not made to operate in cities, they were literally made so that you could cross open fields without getting disintegrated by machine guns. but large field maps with trees and moderate rolling hills like you would see in an actual tank battle are strategic and slow, city maps are fun and fast paced point and click adventures, you dont even have to adjust for distance becasue everything is 100m away.
The event they had recently, where one team would play the bombers and a few escort planes and the enemy would play fighters and interceptors but have way less players was amazing.
It really gave you the feeling that you were on a mission. The bombers to bomb a target, flying in formation to make use of their guns, and fighters defending them. Meanwhile the germans had to protect their base and shoot down the bombers. Also the fact, that dogfighting the fighters didnt really help you win, since getting distracted with them meant the bombers would get through
Having ai bombers in there as well was also a smart move, as it would mean bomber players have more turrets to defend their formation, and it wouldnt turn into air rb.
Ya its funny how they just made planes out of paper machete like how the a10 falls apart when shot by anything Despite its reputation for being incredibly hard to kill.
The only way to make bombers feel fun nowadays is having one or two friends to take interceptors and escort you, but even that comes with the downside of making the friend almost useless.
Sometimes I just want to escort bombers but its not worth it, they should add rewards for fighters staying near bombers and they should maybe add an option of spawning with bombers, but by doing this you cannot carry secondary weapons, the spawning part will probably break the game, or you can spawn at an high altitude but maybe 5-10 km behind and you have to catch up, as if reinforcements are coming in
They should revert the respawning of bases, this will make bombers a lot scarier and make them top priority, air battles will finally be escorting and killing bombers like its supposed to be rather than a bunch of fighters dogfighting aimlessly
Honestly this would bring me back to the game, just imagining me in my p51c escorting a b17 sounds thrilling and fun
I can't even remember the last time I played a bomber. Maybe 5 years ago when I was an absolute noob and thought grinding bombers were worth the time? I only research bombers to get enough vehicles to get to the next tier.
My German Ai gunner didnt shoot until the plane was very close and even then it was shooting somewhere
enduring confrontation being the main game mode in realistic mode is the only way to save warthunder
1:56 oh dear that takes me back.
I remember this was the king of Base and Airfield destruction.
With it's Max bomb loads you couldn't even take off from the airfield on most maps 🤣
Dam the big man himself joined the conversation.
As a indie game dev i hope for that tiny chance that Gaijin does rebuild air battles for everyone's enjoyment :)
@@M0vingSaturn523 at this point, our best chance is if Gaijin (or someone buying the license from them) makes the game cost money to buy, but then actually fixes some of the most glaring issues and tones down the grind now that it's no longer generating revenue. Hell, they could totally keep the MTX like premium vehicles in, i wouldn't mind at all. It would reduce the playerbase significantly, but MASSIVELY improve the quality of the game itself for those who stay. I feel like they would actually profit from this too, even if it was sold for less than $60 (since it's quite old by now)
Very informative video sadly Gaijin won't do anything about it just like they haven't fixed other things people complained about love your videos btw.
Thank you!
@@Liniyka Yw.
@@Liniyka bro fr gayjin has just neglected us die-hard WWII era geeks forever now... and whats worse is that *ITS ONLY AMERICA THAT SUFFERS FROM IT ALL*
I'm a relatively new player so I don't know what it used to be like, but why don't we get different objective based modes like destroying ships or convoys why is it always a "let's see who's fighter swarm actually sticks together for longer?"
I don't see Gaijin ever touching bombers, since their attention is almost entirely on the boring-as-hell point-and-click-adventure experience of top-tier, which has no strategic bombers whatsoever.
honestly i feel like one thing they could change that would be simple to do is drastically lower the air-field HP, but instead of ending the game once destroyed, it completely disables their AAA defenses. though they've basically removed the air-base target entirely ever since they made it so bases respawn.
As a temp fix I think they should be spawned 2km higher so the only people who can get them get pulled out the rest of the match, do you have to choose to get one or two bombers or two of three fighters.
Long term fix there should be a mid air rearm like fly back over your base at 4km and you’d rearm after a minute.
There are ways to power win, I joined a groups of six people, we all took wycerns with 3x1000 and coordinated one plane per base and two for the airfield. We would win the match in a single run and had a success rate between 70-85% of the time.
uhhhh they did a event like that already? It was horrible, It was just an entire team of fighters who could insta kill everyone on the bomber side and it was a glorified turkey shoot.
I thought Homie was going to say b-17s were useless irl, i was gonna say, "im sorry, brother, but its pistols at dawn."
hehe, you standing there with a pistol and hear a bomber approaching ... never go with a pistol to a bombrun ^^
I wish the snail can spend a major update giving attention to all in-game bomber interiors like the cockpits.
nobodys gonna talk about that beautiful N.C.233.3 gameplay in the background?
I am pretty sure you can play Bombers in the IL Sturmovik Series.
Bombers aren't totally useless in WT, you just take a high level strategic bomber (that in most of ww2 was lucky to hit within 1000ft of a target) load it with a single massive bomb and use it as a super accurate low level tactical CAS machine in ground battles.
About ground RB, some even broken like Lancaster and Pe-8, they just fly to super high, drop the bomb and returned. BOOM, 5-10 players died. Or Me-262, don't need bombs or rockets, just fly though the tank and the air followed behind will have the name PzGr and it has penetration super high so that they can ammo racked you instantly.
Play with b29 or tu4
It's really pointless to bring a bomber on 4.0+ xp 50 for example will destroy you, and so will everything else, the only good bomber is the ju288 only because its fast and has good guns
Arado (6.3 one) is good too, even if it cant take a base in one go. Also i had some success with Ju188 (that thing is like one of the most survivable bombers out there, quite nimble with full load too). Tu-2 will also do, you can even use it as a heavy fighter and it can get away from most things when diving.
Doesn’t stop half my team from flying them.
I noticed that long ago. Strategic bombers would be in a lot better place if matches would ultimately revolve around them. They get some points after successful bombing, but that is irrelevant as most points will be scored via kills. You cannot even win by points as matches are just deathmatches. If there would be objectives and matches would be played in mission format, favoring side which plays the objectives then strategic bombers would have their place.
If you have a game with no strategic objectives, you won't need strategic aircraft. Have multiple airfields with a ticket system random tactical and preset strategic objectives. Destroying strategic objectives including spawn airfields reduces tickets. Destroying tactical objectives increases your tickets. You can use your whole lineup(as class selection in battlefield) and pick your spawn points. Suddenly you can have a big map, with strategic level objectives and also enough player density to makke it fun. With more types of installations that means you can also add SAMs, AWACs, tankers, cruise missles etc.
a b17 IRL flew home from a mission with almost nothing connecting it's tail to the rest of the plane, yet in WT the tail falls off after a fighter sneezes at you
Air sim. Execpt nobody plays that so it takes 30 minutes or more to get into an in-progress match.
50 cal nerf basically killed the entire low to mid tier us air tree
50cal jets in high br similar with having low fire rate 7mm gun in low br xD
One of reason i perfere 20mm cannon over any 50cal nowdays
What the fuck are you guys smoking, the 50 cal is still one of the best guns in the game, even up to BR 8.3.
At low tier, 50 Cals ARE the best weapon, period. They're actually OP at these ranges.
Imo just make it so bombers spawn
A: spawn closer to bases
B: spawn higher
C: both
Interceptors can still do their role when the bombers start going down/back to their airfields
Not even, they get intercepted by fighters doing their job of protecting the bombers, such as the case with the IL28 and other jet bombers, they drop their bombs run like hell and pass the friendlies before they have a chance to get Intercepted, it's a lesser situation with prop bombers except for like the b25/26 etc
I remember seeing a guy use the Italian S.81 gunners to kill 5 planes and was awe struck. Man either got insanely lucky against those P36s and biplanes, or was really good at using those guns
It’s such a shame that the large 4 engine bombers have almost no place on the small maps. Half the time you don’t even make it to a target before some premium air spawn climber downs you in one pass
isn't there the "assult gamemode" where you become the interceptor and destroy hordes of bomber coming onto 1 specific target?
Yea, but they saw that people were having fun in that game mode so they made the rewards extremly bad, and the price for respawning high so now people don't bother with it anymore. Plus, if you have a plane at 6.7 and above, you'll be put in the team with 12.7 jets. So, getting your early jet and having to compete for kills with MiG-29s and F-15s while you fly your slow Su-9. By the time you even get close to the enemies, they're already dead.
I used to play assault ground and assault air a lot back in the day, as you could grind very well. A similar thing happened with the unlimited XP glitch for heli PvE mode where you hovered over the helipad to receive the landing bonus over and over again. So you could research a full heli with all of its modifications in a single match and make milions of SL just sitting in one spot.
If there is a method to get SL and XP and not suffer, gaijin will fix it immediately. And yet, volumetric, realshatter, balancing, the economy are still broken.
@@alexmaximus9134 If the cash shop works and the actual gameplay doesn't, you are playing a store and not a game. Gaijin will continue making the game worse as long as people are willing to pay
Air PVE really shows how fucking bad the damage model is cause you can demolish many of those Bombers in one pass or get your tail just cut by machine gun fire.
Killing Floor 1 retrospective from you would go hard ngl
😳😳😳
I remember doing an air AB match a few years ago. I used the Ju 87 R and managed to destroy all of the bases by myself, and didn’t die once. Attack planes are probably better than the large bombers when it comes to destroying bases.
What if you wanted to grind bombers, but Gaijin said “Domination”.
You should try playing bombers in Sim. It's completely different gameplay and a lot more for stuff to do for the bombers.
Oh yeah, sim is probably THE bomber mode. This video only covers the bober struggles of air RB
most people who want to play sim probably wont simply because they would need to buy and setup a joystick to actually be effective. they just need air rb to be sim but with mouse aim
Nah, you don't really NEED a joystick for sim, especially if you only want to fly bobers
@@Liniyka all good home. I know your video was for bombers struggles in RB. I figured I let you know about bombers in sim.
Man your idea for air RB sounds so kino. alas....
With limited experience in warthunder, you're recommendations at the end of the video actually sounded a lot better than the bombing system last time I was really into air battles which was years ago.
I am so happy to see someone else using the NC.223 aggressively. Some of the most fun I have ever had with the game. I did it earlier today. It's so friggin devilish.
I too remember the days when underwing rockets were a necessary air to air weapon because Heinkels would just ABSORB anything under 20mm
War Thunder's air modes are aweful. Air RB EC would be amazing, especially for top tier jets. Air AB and RB play the same at top tier. Both are aweful.
It's hilarious that gaijin made a good mode that people really liked, and then just deleted it entirely. Can't have shit in War Thunder
They should have never added heavy bombers in the first place. They also need to revert the changes they made to ARB. Remove the fucking AI ticket drain planes, and make the timer an hour instead of 25mins, like how it used to be.
Gaijin wanted the, just one more session mentality. I enjoy sim for the fact that you can stop and it's relaxing. Everything from the game mode to the music is meant to get a rush of euphoria going and not let you relax. People have COD brain as well meaning engagement begins within 15 seconds and if it isn't then it's "boring and time wasting."
I do not want hour long battles that’s what sim is for
Nowadays, gunners wont even bother shooting a round and I have my crews max spaded lol
Now gunners don’t even fire until the enemy’s practically touching you
it's absolutely ridiculous!!! I SPENT SO MUCH EXPERIENCE ON GUNNERS AND THEY ARE WORSE THAN EVER.
not me (a blue-water fleet enjoyer) watching this video while waiting for the matchmaking to find the other person who enjoys boats.
Many truths were spoken in this video. Enduring confrontation was a great game mode and could have been even better with improvements.
Flying out the Blitz Bomber and dabbing on bases at lower tier was the most fun i had playing ARB. When the bases started respawning, i first though its a bug. Damn shame to learn it most maps now. Flying out bigger strategic bombers was also a blast on sim enduring, trying to land the amerika bomber was a challenge on some maps, because you didnt really have any long airstrips, but they were insanely fun too, not to mention extremely profitable to a certain point in time.
Was thinking of redownloading WT, but the more i check out whats happening in the game nowadays, the less i want to go back.
what pisses me off is after my B17 grind I wound up in that game mode that has nothing to bomb anymore, wasting hours of my time.
I've had the idea of RB Enduring Confrontation in my mind for a while now and I think that gamemode would actually make all of the different types of aircraft even more usefull than they already are (yes, even strategic bombers). You could be part of a big bomber formation with player controlled and ai aircraft trying to destroy a factory or big dam. Interceptors make sense there too and then you have fighters that can protect the bomber formations. You don't just have one spawn but have to pay sp/every team only has so many tickets.
And the best thing is the gamemode is already in the game, all gaijin would need to do is change the difficulty from simulator to realistic and boom - new fun gamemode I think a lot of people would appreciate.
Honestly armies of bot bombers that get stopped just in time by bot interceptors sound like a really cool idea because a player on either side would feel like the main character, turning the tide of the battle. It just needs to be handled properly, we don't want another assault situation on our hands...
90% of the time it’s clear skies until I’m one meter from my target and then I got one taped and my tail gets cut off
"[Bombers] are torture devices." Me in my Be-6 winning the match in a 1v6: "yeah, for the other team"
I played WT for several years when it first came out, and then took a multi-year break, and then came back. I noticed Air RB was different but I couldn't put my finger on as to why.
"What do you mean maps only had 3 bases and the airfield? isn't it like that still?"
Last time I played: 10 years ago
Air combat i believe back in the early 90s had it to where you crewed a bomber a bombardier gunners the works. That was a blast!
I remember watching baronvongames play the TU-4 (deathstar) in a custom battle. Ah the nostalgia
Side climbing is a thing for a reason. Tbh tho it would be nice to make the air RB gunners on par with arcade gunners or at least close.
bombers be like:
-Locate the closest ground target
-fly to high altitudes (takes forever)
-drop payload
-try to fly back up and wait for bomb refuel
-die
If gaijin gives Bombers higher altitudes air spawns it would fix them but we are sick of suggestions to this so called gaijin!
Geez gunners shot at 1k away?? Now it feels like planes have to be less then 200m away for my gunners to even start aiming at them
Don’t forget about the silver lion cap. The one of that effectively grounded, all B-29 players for almost a year before it was fixed.
As a fighter main who's played as long as you have I actually miss when bombers were strong and the gunners were good. Having to learn bombers blind spots as well as needing to aim at specific points on the enemy plane to me was extremely fun, also being able to escort your team's bombers without them dying to one bullet was also extremely fun.
I remember back in 2014 I had so much fun in my B17, and later when I bought the TB3. Now I see them in my research list and shed a single tear
It's not that Gaijin can't balance things, it's that they don't want to. Imbalance drives bad progression, bad progression drives frustration and frustration drives a player to reach for their wallet.
This guy gets it.
One day there will be a genuine war thunder competitor focusing on the Arcade-Sim Air genre like Air RB. I can't wait.
As a former bomber enjoyer, I thank bombers for being so dumb that i have reverted to my japanese zeroes and now i am good in dogfights and have not touched a bomber ever again!!
Bombers aren't useless. They never had a place in this game for interesting, engaging gameplay. Their purpose is for players who find the game too hard to be able to grind up to their favorite top tier fighter jet so that they can continue to bomb in that. At least these players won't ruin the outcome of a match through ticket bleed.
The reality is that, even IRL, bombers are strategic weapons. War thunder has very little room for strategy, it is almost purely tactical. So bombers suffer.
This is a well argued video. I got into warthunder in 2013 not for bombers specifically, but it only took until unlocking the blenheim to realise bombers were for me. I spent so many hours in the B-25 over the years, and it was probably the most fun I've had in air RB. When tanks came out I gradually shifted to pretty much exclusively playing tank RB because I was able to get some of the same ground striking fun, whilst also having a host of tanks to bring to the battle as well. Gone were the days of spending minutes climbing only to be taken out by an Me163's cannon burst from 1500m away. Air RB just lost all its lustre for me, and whilst I wholeheartedly would like to see it improve, I can't honestly say Gaijin could do anything to actually get me to play it consistently.
Your pitch on the new objective would be amazing
Dude ur really into yt, ur making great content. Keep it up man
Thank you, will do!
Also Aces High solved this problem very simply: You got 2 ai planes in a formation around you that match you in a triangle formation, and after you lose one plane, you instantly swap to another in the formation. These AI also matched your gunner firing and such, making them WAY better, as it allows one player to use bombers as intended, in a group. Plus in War Thunder this would not only triple your survive-ability (the additional gunners would still be almost impossible to aim) but reward the fighters attacking you more, as there is the potential to get 3 kills at once, making this better for both the strategic bomber players and the interceptors.
The only fun way to play bombers is to fly in formation with a friend or two.
Otherwise you have to either turn around at the start until out of bounds turns you back or fly in a large curve and hope you are not spotted.
About 60% of my encounters end in me dead, while only 15% result in a kill and no mortal damage.
The obly thing I really want is guns that you can reload without emptying your belt(and a timer) and guns that dont jam after 4 seconds of firing.
The choice is alwase "do I try and snipe at 1k out so I can try and take no damage but have overheating guns if i miss and he gets close, or accept the damage and wait for them to close in".
LowTierBomber experience.
> Climb
> Rush to base
> Get sniped by MiG-3 just before you release the bomb
When you were talking about AI bombers and interceptors, I remembered the events Gaijin used to do frequently for historical battles like the bomber raid event whenever Operation Gomorrah's period would come around or a night bomber interception mission for the Blitz or other night bombing campaigns throughout the war or having to defend from air attacks at Midway or Iwojima. This period of events took place also when Gaijin was trying out the RB enduring confrontation mode. I distinctly remember a time when Gaijin would roll out these events at the same time and you could get a queue which was significantly shorter than it is today in any mode you wanted to play, including ground battles. So when the game is supposedly having such a large active player base which is growing steadily, why does Gaijin feel the need to remove events, prevent the playerbase from splitting by forcing nation-agnostic matchmaking and making the grind longer? If they weren't having issues with this, then it should have been easy to just go and reimplement all those events and RB EC.
Truth is, I also enjoy playing bombers but because of how vulnerable they got I started playing sneaky, usually staying high or climbing while going around the main battle area and than from sides boming ennemies bases. I feel like just remaking bomber usefull with the destroyed airfield win mechanic on mosts map, would make them usefull enought for having both good fighters and good bombers confrontation.
I wouldn't like the infinite base idea tho
On another hand non tickets base destruction makes dive bombing AI units in RB usefull, making polyvalent bombers better and this could be interesting to keep on certain maps.
To make bombers great I would also love more special objectives like destroying a bridge in a way to influence ground battles...
I agree, as someone who plays bombers as much as other planes I despise how I can't do anything because I don't have good guns, most of the attackers ignore my bombing target dibs, reaching a base, onef fighter somehow climbs above me eventhough I climbed since I spawned, got hit once, my wing rips off or my bomb explode and back to the hangar with a deficite because I ain't a gunship
Funnily enough there isn't even an option to be a gunship. Eventhough it can be achieved with copy-pasting a bomber, taking away the bombs and putting more guns on it, for example YB-17 or YB-29. Or dedicated gunships because I am sure that there ARE gunships that could be added to the game
If you want to play a strategic bomber in War Thunder, you basically got to fly around the edge of the fucking map
Honestly, the EC style game modes would fix a lot of the problems with bombers. Large maps with different objectives spread out. Bases that are spread out and respawn, 5 airfields to bomb, convoys, frontline battles, there's so much more to do for bombers and strike aircraft. It would make RB so much better. This is why I've switched to playing SB
My dream would be for EC to come back. Problem is many players can't reliably play for multiple hours without a break. So it could be a drop in/out thing. You get larger reward multipliers for paying for longer, but if you can only stick around for an hour then so be it. New players can jump in with a late bonus to their SP and rewards.
When I played EC for the first time I played a game like nothing else. There's no competition for the fun I had. With no icons I'd fly a bomber at low alt, following a river so i couldn't be seen. I'd pop up and B-line for the objective. Then rush back.
I miss landing bombers. You never survive air RB long enough to land. In EC I'd often have multiple take offs and landings. It was great. I bought the Ju-288 just because of EC. To me this was the future of the game. Then they stopped it. Then they said it would never come back again.
I've never been able to pay WT since. I saw what the game could become. What it could be without the greed and stupidity of Gaijin. My eyes were opened and I cannot unsee.
I'm glad people still remember and bring it up. But I have no faith the game will ever be that good again.
Also when I say I've never been able to pay since. I've probably put another 500-700 hours in. But I've never "gotten into" it. I can't grind, there are things I want in the game, but I know that the suffering of the grind just to suffer through the stock grind, just to suffer playing against much better aircraft. Not worth it. Back in the day the vampire was an underdog. It was fun to bait Mig-15s to lose their energy then beat them in a turn fight. It took skill and effort and I was damn good at it. But now the vampire goes against missiles? Supersonics? It's not fun anymore it's feeding.
My first jet was the P-80A. It was so fun. F-80, F-86, F2H-2. Remember when the F2H-2 was op? Man I miss those days.
I think the biggest help Gaijin could do for strat bombers would be to include AI wingmen you switch back and forth between. It's really awkward to be a single bomber, and squading up for 4 is still anemic. Giving them a balanceable number of wingmen could be a huge help with your idea of making 1 super base.