"Are modern games focusing on immersion and presentation, while losing sight of what makes then fun to play?" Holy f*ck, you're spitting with this line. And the answer is yes.
One thing I appreciate about your videos(especially as someone making a game) you make me realize certain things that many developers tend to forget in favour of pushing things that don't really expand on the mediums core function, being fun. Amazing production all round. Hope your channel grows tremendously 🔥
Thank you so very much, this is exactly the kind of feedback I love to hear! I really want these videos to spark conversation about the mechanics and layers of games. The more we discuss all of that, the better games can get, especially when an actual developer jumps into the conversation! So glad you discovered the channel a few videos back :)
Excellent video, really love your writing in this vidoe. Your idea of fun being subjective in games is very refreshing. Continously I see videos just stating video games aren't fun at all without really any real explanantion, but this video is the right answer to the question. I love how you incorporated games you loved into this video, made the essay feel more personal and authentic, also now I'm convinced to paly Ratchet And Clank: Rift Apart, so yeah :) Keep it up man, your vidoes are getting better and better with each upload.
Ah man, thank you so so much for the kind feedback. This video hasn't performed as well as I'd hoped it would so it really does encourage me so much to hear that you enjoyed it! I'm trying to start discussing larger topics instead of just focusing on reviewing a single game. You should *absolutely* play Ratchet & Clank, I couldn't believe how good it was!
This was a great video, it took me years to complete Red Dead 2 and I did enjoy parts of it but jeez the realist movement of Arthur made it painful to play sometimes. I liked how you did finish by saying that video games are really each to their own taste, but I do think reviews play a major part of what games are perceived as “good” which can cross over to fun also.
Thank yo so much, Daragh! I really appreciate the kind words and am glad you enjoyed the video. Red Dead 2 is a beast, it took me a few months to finish. I think you're right, reviews have a massive bearing on how a game is perceived. It's a shame, as I think many games end up being written off if their aggregate review scores aren't high enough.
"Compare that to... well, you can probably guess", and the DS music kicks in while still showing the colorful gameplay - great editing idea! 😄 Interesting topic, of course! I guess we tend to say, "I'm having lots of fun" when we actually should be saying, "I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of this". DS isn't fun per se, but incredibly enjoyable and rewarding. Come to think about it, the kind of game you're talking about (at the example of Ratchet & Clank) does seem to have been more ubiquitous ten and more years ago. "Let's do this and that, but darker" seems to be the order of the day, right after "Let's make everything open world" and "Let's monetize the crap out of it". The last time I had a blast and lots of fun in the literal sense with a really light-hearted and incredibly well-done game was Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy on the PS5, and before that... well, Uncharted 3, I guess. Which brings me back to how much I miss this kind of game when it's really done right (and how Uncharted 4 wasn't that at all ^^). No, wait, I mustn't forget Hogwarts Legacy. Well, obviously we still have an astonishing range to pick from here.
Haha glad you dug that man! I love linking clips together with audio. Yeah, it's an interesting distinction for sure. Perhaps one that's a bit semantical, but I think it's really interesting to think about. The idea just came out of nowhere while I was playing Rift Apart. Now that you mention it, talking about the ubiquity of the "open world" would make for a really interesting topic... I loved GofG! Played it just a few months ago and really dug it. I haven't played Hogwarts Legacy yet, but am very excited to do so. Yeah, I think we've got access to a greater quantity and quality than ever before, but it's really interesting to see how trends change with time. Can't wait to see where we go next!
@@Wilson-108 Isn't GotG just really f§%&ing great? (And way funnier than the movies, which are themselves the only bearable Marvel movies out there AFAIC.) Very rarely do I play a game from start to finish twice in a row, but this one I had to. It baffles me that the game didn't have the success it deserved. Sure, it has its flaws, but damn, would I love a sequel to that! Would I recommend HL? Depends. Gameplay-wise, it's so repetitive and has such a disconnect between the world and the gameplay mechanics, it could be a Bethesda game, and the map is cluttered with Ubisoft-worthy amounts of boring chores. But the recreation of the world is astoundingly true to the books (minus ridiculous levels of woke crap that's trying really hard to pull you out of the experience at every turn). Not sure how much you can get out of the open world topic unless you find some really good examples. For me, it would be The Evil Within 2 that's been done dirty by forcing an open world into it. Or the Arkham series: Loved Asylum, couldn't get into City. Mirror's Edge: The first one was pretty much required gaming, the second one, no thanks. HL doesn't have enough to offer to justify being open world either. And of course most Ubisoft games. ^^
Absolutely, Guardians was a blast! Such a shame that Eidos suffered those layoffs, although that's pretty par for the course at this point. That's good to hear, appreciate your thoughts. I've been craving open worlds lately, so I think I'll dig HL, but I also wouldn't be surprised if I just bounce off it. Yeah, I'm gonna have to do some brainstorming about that topic. It'll be one for a little further down the line :)
I think this crisis invaded my mind when playing games like Witcher 3 or Dragons Dogma 2. And not that I wasn’t having fun but simply because of the nature of the game being an RPG. Things like Weight systems and Player levels are mechanics that actively work against the player’s convenience and forces them to make their own. While it’s all apart of the immersive experience, it can definitely get to a point where it feels like I’m spending too my time in my inventory just because the immersive point is that I’m forced to walk or move slowly given the heavy load of my inventory. This is where games like Bloodborne excels, giving the player no limit to what you carry, allowing pack your inventory with as much as you please without slowing down your bloodthirsty urge to slay the beasts of Yharnam. This is not to say games like Witcher 3, Dragons Dogma or other games that have weight systems are worse for it. But I think having it doesn’t contribute much to the immersion. I believe for a game to master “fun”, it has to throw out things that essentially wastes the player’s time. I think Ratchet and Clank having endless engagement and crazy encounters for the player is a justifiable reason to place it above games like Red Dead and Dark Souls. Although, many players are simply giddy just to be in a vast and beautiful world, strolling on their horse for 30 minutes like when playing Red Dead. While they’re not necessarily going “WOOHOO” in their heads as often as you could be in Ratchet and Clank, I think just the feeling of being an outlaw in those unengaging and uneventful and seemingly boring moments in between missions and combat provide a “fun” factor in of itself. There are definitely games that prioritize immersion and style over gameplay though. And I agree The Last of Us holds this medal. In this case, it’s the immersion that strips the game of its “fun”. People aren’t thinking much about the fact that they just slit someone’s throat or shived a clicker. It’s something they’ve done many times over. They’re only focused on getting to point A to B which is how Naughty Dogs usually maps their games’ objectives. They show you a location in the distance and tell you “Go here”. In a way, I think this has tinkered with with the ability to have fun because the game is already prioritizing story over gameplay for you. Regardless, The Last of Us Part 2 is a special case because the dark nature of its narrative makes players crave to find out more, so I think the ability have fun is hindered by its story, in a way… or something. Which I don’t think is a bad thing, but being tensed up the entire game kinda molds over its pretty graphics and gruesome combat.
Such an insightful comment, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I really love to hear perspectives of others to this depth. "Fun" is truly a nebulous word when when it comes to entertainment and video games more specifically. It grows muddier and muddier by the year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. This industry and medium continue to be fascinating to watch and analyze!
This is a great video and dialogue. There are many games that are "good" per se without being fun. Take narrative "walking simulators" for example. Such as What Remains of Edith Finch or Firewatch. There's no hyper-engaging gameplay, but they provide incredible narrative experiences in their own right. Like you said, I can't wait to see how the industry evolves and comes up with new and inventive ways to portray story and gameplay.
I was slowly vacuuming the mako gas in the FF7 Rebirth demo when i realized I’d rather be doing anything else and decided to skip the whole game. There was literally no reason to have that there. It wasnt fun and it didnt add to immersion. As an adult gamer with limited time to game, un-fun time-wasters like that are painful to come across. I’d rather have a fun game than a “realistic” immersive one. If i wanted a vacuuming experience id just vacuum at home.
Oh wow, that sounds rough, I actually bounced off of FF7 Remake a couple years ago and haven't gone back. For some reason, I just couldn't get into it. But I'm with you, it's really important to have more immediate, gratifying game experiences. Thank you for watching the video, hope you enjoyed!
I can see what you mean, I know graphics have come a long way but I don't think it should be prioritized over gameplay. Like The Last of Us was made by one of my favorite game studios, and it has a really good story but the gameplay is weak compared to it. Not in a bad way of course.
What's up EK! Good to hear from you dude. I'm with you! Graphical fidelity is always exciting, but it pails in comparison to great gameplay. Of course, having both is always preferred, haha. I've seen a lot mention that about TLOU. I think Part 2 made a lot of strides in the gameplay department.
@@Wilson-108 I know right. I feel like one game that kind of mixes both good gameplay and graphics is Spider Man Miles Morales for PS5. I personally don’t have a PS5 but I’ve watched other tubers play it and I think the gameplay makes the experience feel more free. It’s a feeling that makes it feel satisfying as well as really fun, even if I’m not playing it myself lol.
Not the video I was expecting but interesting nonetheless. I have around 1000 games so I can have fun in a variety of different ways. Ratchet and Clank is my favorite franchise and one of the reasons why is due to the things you mentioned. I tend to have an inherent bias towards games that are pick up and play and get into the action very quickly. I did kind of like RDR2 and TLOU2 but the former I can't picture myself playing again due to how dull the gameplay is and how long it is. TLOU2 I am sort of willing to play again, but it can be dragged out beyond belief and I don't care for post apocalyptic settings that much. I borderline find the genre boring. But that's the thing, someone could find it great.
Thanks very much for watching, I'm glad you found it interesting! That's an extremely impressive collection! Does that include digital and physical games? I can relate to that! I try to push myself out of my comfort zone as it were, but I'll always love those more simplistic experiences. You make a great point with regard to replaying games. I think many modern games are less repayable than their retro brethren.
@@Wilson-108 I meant I beat over 1000 games, not own. But I probably do own that many but it's mostly digital. Indie games get to the point a lot faster but games like Resident Evil Village sure does make a point that many AAA games nowdays take forever to actually start.
"Are modern games focusing on immersion and presentation, while losing sight of what makes then fun to play?"
Holy f*ck, you're spitting with this line.
And the answer is yes.
Whoa, is this *the* Stadose??
One thing I appreciate about your videos(especially as someone making a game) you make me realize certain things that many developers tend to forget in favour of pushing things that don't really expand on the mediums core function, being fun. Amazing production all round. Hope your channel grows tremendously 🔥
Thank you so very much, this is exactly the kind of feedback I love to hear! I really want these videos to spark conversation about the mechanics and layers of games. The more we discuss all of that, the better games can get, especially when an actual developer jumps into the conversation! So glad you discovered the channel a few videos back :)
Your channel feels like a hidden gem to me.
It really is. Let's revel in its obscurity for as long as it lasts since I'm hoping this is gonna blow up. 😉
Thank you so much for saying that!! Hopefully it won't be hidden for too much longer :)
A “Far Cry” from genuine survival games.. I see what you did there
teehee ;)
Smoothest voice on this website!
Haha appreciate it man!! I'll be settling in and checking out your new video later this evening :)
Excellent video, really love your writing in this vidoe. Your idea of fun being subjective in games is very refreshing. Continously I see videos just stating video games aren't fun at all without really any real explanantion, but this video is the right answer to the question. I love how you incorporated games you loved into this video, made the essay feel more personal and authentic, also now I'm convinced to paly Ratchet And Clank: Rift Apart, so yeah :)
Keep it up man, your vidoes are getting better and better with each upload.
Ah man, thank you so so much for the kind feedback. This video hasn't performed as well as I'd hoped it would so it really does encourage me so much to hear that you enjoyed it! I'm trying to start discussing larger topics instead of just focusing on reviewing a single game.
You should *absolutely* play Ratchet & Clank, I couldn't believe how good it was!
This was a great video, it took me years to complete Red Dead 2 and I did enjoy parts of it but jeez the realist movement of Arthur made it painful to play sometimes.
I liked how you did finish by saying that video games are really each to their own taste, but I do think reviews play a major part of what games are perceived as “good” which can cross over to fun also.
Thank yo so much, Daragh! I really appreciate the kind words and am glad you enjoyed the video.
Red Dead 2 is a beast, it took me a few months to finish. I think you're right, reviews have a massive bearing on how a game is perceived. It's a shame, as I think many games end up being written off if their aggregate review scores aren't high enough.
"Compare that to... well, you can probably guess", and the DS music kicks in while still showing the colorful gameplay - great editing idea! 😄
Interesting topic, of course! I guess we tend to say, "I'm having lots of fun" when we actually should be saying, "I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of this". DS isn't fun per se, but incredibly enjoyable and rewarding. Come to think about it, the kind of game you're talking about (at the example of Ratchet & Clank) does seem to have been more ubiquitous ten and more years ago. "Let's do this and that, but darker" seems to be the order of the day, right after "Let's make everything open world" and "Let's monetize the crap out of it".
The last time I had a blast and lots of fun in the literal sense with a really light-hearted and incredibly well-done game was Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy on the PS5, and before that... well, Uncharted 3, I guess. Which brings me back to how much I miss this kind of game when it's really done right (and how Uncharted 4 wasn't that at all ^^). No, wait, I mustn't forget Hogwarts Legacy.
Well, obviously we still have an astonishing range to pick from here.
Haha glad you dug that man! I love linking clips together with audio.
Yeah, it's an interesting distinction for sure. Perhaps one that's a bit semantical, but I think it's really interesting to think about. The idea just came out of nowhere while I was playing Rift Apart. Now that you mention it, talking about the ubiquity of the "open world" would make for a really interesting topic...
I loved GofG! Played it just a few months ago and really dug it. I haven't played Hogwarts Legacy yet, but am very excited to do so.
Yeah, I think we've got access to a greater quantity and quality than ever before, but it's really interesting to see how trends change with time. Can't wait to see where we go next!
@@Wilson-108 Isn't GotG just really f§%&ing great? (And way funnier than the movies, which are themselves the only bearable Marvel movies out there AFAIC.) Very rarely do I play a game from start to finish twice in a row, but this one I had to. It baffles me that the game didn't have the success it deserved. Sure, it has its flaws, but damn, would I love a sequel to that!
Would I recommend HL? Depends. Gameplay-wise, it's so repetitive and has such a disconnect between the world and the gameplay mechanics, it could be a Bethesda game, and the map is cluttered with Ubisoft-worthy amounts of boring chores. But the recreation of the world is astoundingly true to the books (minus ridiculous levels of woke crap that's trying really hard to pull you out of the experience at every turn).
Not sure how much you can get out of the open world topic unless you find some really good examples. For me, it would be The Evil Within 2 that's been done dirty by forcing an open world into it. Or the Arkham series: Loved Asylum, couldn't get into City. Mirror's Edge: The first one was pretty much required gaming, the second one, no thanks. HL doesn't have enough to offer to justify being open world either. And of course most Ubisoft games. ^^
Absolutely, Guardians was a blast! Such a shame that Eidos suffered those layoffs, although that's pretty par for the course at this point.
That's good to hear, appreciate your thoughts. I've been craving open worlds lately, so I think I'll dig HL, but I also wouldn't be surprised if I just bounce off it.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to do some brainstorming about that topic. It'll be one for a little further down the line :)
I think this crisis invaded my mind when playing games like Witcher 3 or Dragons Dogma 2. And not that I wasn’t having fun but simply because of the nature of the game being an RPG. Things like Weight systems and Player levels are mechanics that actively work against the player’s convenience and forces them to make their own. While it’s all apart of the immersive experience, it can definitely get to a point where it feels like I’m spending too my time in my inventory just because the immersive point is that I’m forced to walk or move slowly given the heavy load of my inventory. This is where games like Bloodborne excels, giving the player no limit to what you carry, allowing pack your inventory with as much as you please without slowing down your bloodthirsty urge to slay the beasts of Yharnam. This is not to say games like Witcher 3, Dragons Dogma or other games that have weight systems are worse for it. But I think having it doesn’t contribute much to the immersion.
I believe for a game to master “fun”, it has to throw out things that essentially wastes the player’s time. I think Ratchet and Clank having endless engagement and crazy encounters for the player is a justifiable reason to place it above games like Red Dead and Dark Souls. Although, many players are simply giddy just to be in a vast and beautiful world, strolling on their horse for 30 minutes like when playing Red Dead. While they’re not necessarily going “WOOHOO” in their heads as often as you could be in Ratchet and Clank, I think just the feeling of being an outlaw in those unengaging and uneventful and seemingly boring moments in between missions and combat provide a “fun” factor in of itself.
There are definitely games that prioritize immersion and style over gameplay though. And I agree The Last of Us holds this medal. In this case, it’s the immersion that strips the game of its “fun”. People aren’t thinking much about the fact that they just slit someone’s throat or shived a clicker. It’s something they’ve done many times over. They’re only focused on getting to point A to B which is how Naughty Dogs usually maps their games’ objectives. They show you a location in the distance and tell you “Go here”. In a way, I think this has tinkered with with the ability to have fun because the game is already prioritizing story over gameplay for you. Regardless, The Last of Us Part 2 is a special case because the dark nature of its narrative makes players crave to find out more, so I think the ability have fun is hindered by its story, in a way… or something. Which I don’t think is a bad thing, but being tensed up the entire game kinda molds over its pretty graphics and gruesome combat.
Such an insightful comment, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I really love to hear perspectives of others to this depth. "Fun" is truly a nebulous word when when it comes to entertainment and video games more specifically. It grows muddier and muddier by the year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. This industry and medium continue to be fascinating to watch and analyze!
This is a great video and dialogue. There are many games that are "good" per se without being fun. Take narrative "walking simulators" for example. Such as What Remains of Edith Finch or Firewatch. There's no hyper-engaging gameplay, but they provide incredible narrative experiences in their own right.
Like you said, I can't wait to see how the industry evolves and comes up with new and inventive ways to portray story and gameplay.
Thanks my dude!! Totally agree, I love me a good walking simulator. Very excited to see where this crazy industry goes next :)
Me want to see you do Elden Ring review one day
Me will do that just for you :,)
I was slowly vacuuming the mako gas in the FF7 Rebirth demo when i realized I’d rather be doing anything else and decided to skip the whole game. There was literally no reason to have that there. It wasnt fun and it didnt add to immersion. As an adult gamer with limited time to game, un-fun time-wasters like that are painful to come across. I’d rather have a fun game than a “realistic” immersive one. If i wanted a vacuuming experience id just vacuum at home.
Oh wow, that sounds rough, I actually bounced off of FF7 Remake a couple years ago and haven't gone back. For some reason, I just couldn't get into it. But I'm with you, it's really important to have more immediate, gratifying game experiences.
Thank you for watching the video, hope you enjoyed!
I can see what you mean, I know graphics have come a long way but I don't think it should be prioritized over gameplay. Like The Last of Us was made by one of my favorite game studios, and it has a really good story but the gameplay is weak compared to it. Not in a bad way of course.
What's up EK! Good to hear from you dude.
I'm with you! Graphical fidelity is always exciting, but it pails in comparison to great gameplay. Of course, having both is always preferred, haha. I've seen a lot mention that about TLOU. I think Part 2 made a lot of strides in the gameplay department.
@@Wilson-108 I know right. I feel like one game that kind of mixes both good gameplay and graphics is Spider Man Miles Morales for PS5. I personally don’t have a PS5 but I’ve watched other tubers play it and I think the gameplay makes the experience feel more free. It’s a feeling that makes it feel satisfying as well as really fun, even if I’m not playing it myself lol.
Not the video I was expecting but interesting nonetheless. I have around 1000 games so I can have fun in a variety of different ways. Ratchet and Clank is my favorite franchise and one of the reasons why is due to the things you mentioned.
I tend to have an inherent bias towards games that are pick up and play and get into the action very quickly. I did kind of like RDR2 and TLOU2 but the former I can't picture myself playing again due to how dull the gameplay is and how long it is. TLOU2 I am sort of willing to play again, but it can be dragged out beyond belief and I don't care for post apocalyptic settings that much. I borderline find the genre boring. But that's the thing, someone could find it great.
Thanks very much for watching, I'm glad you found it interesting! That's an extremely impressive collection! Does that include digital and physical games?
I can relate to that! I try to push myself out of my comfort zone as it were, but I'll always love those more simplistic experiences. You make a great point with regard to replaying games. I think many modern games are less repayable than their retro brethren.
@@Wilson-108
I meant I beat over 1000 games, not own. But I probably do own that many but it's mostly digital.
Indie games get to the point a lot faster but games like Resident Evil Village sure does make a point that many AAA games nowdays take forever to actually start.
Gotcha, still very impressive! For sure, indie games tend to get things going much more quickly, which I tend to appreciate.