Identifying Useful Art Critiques... And Ignoring Bad Ones
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- In this clip, Marshall and Stan discuss the importance of being discerning when getting critiques as a developing artist. They talk about the reasons behind giving critiques, the importance of community, and the need for “thick skin” if you want to get the most from an art critique. Clip taken from From Developing Your Art Critique Chops - Draftsmen S2E28. Full episode - • Developing Your Art Cr...
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ABOUT DRAFTSMEN
Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff are art instructors. If you love the arts, particularly the craft of drawing and painting and image-making… and you want to level up your skills or even make a living with your skills, we are here to answer your questions. We’re here to offer you advice, refer you to our resources, share your love of the craft and maybe inspire you! Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com. Subscribe to the podcast at bit.ly/DraftsmenPod
CREDITS:
Hosts - Stan Prokopenko (www.stanprokopenko.com), Marshall Vandruff (www.marshallart.com/)
Production Assistance - Charlie Nicholson ( / shloogorgh )
Editing - Charlie Nicholson
Intro Animation - Cody Shank (codyshank.com/)
Intro Jingle - Tommy Rush ( / tommyrush )
Music Used with Permission Intro - The Freak Fandango Orchestra
How do you decide which critiques to listen to and which to ignore?
I first try to apply it, but forget that. What happen to the March Challenge?
On how much they pay
@@carlosroo5460 It's up now on prokotv instagram
If It's communicated logical and objective and if I can see where they are coming from
If the person can explain to me objectively why my technique is bad and can demonstrate it I know it's good advice. But when I look at what the person produces and I know he/she doesn't have a clue about what they are talking about based on their work... Then I just ignore it because it was likely not a genuine critique of my work.
It also depends a lot about the context too. It may be a genuine critique made by someone that might not be mechanically skilled too. I guess that's something to take into account as well.
In an art college situation there is a whole catalogue of standard phrases that one can totally ignore. Such as: "Why are you drawing the subject so realistically? Caravaggio has already done it! Why don't you make a photograph instead?" ... "You have to liberate yourself ..." "Your drawings are very intense but not very experimental ..." in general most critique that is just based on pure taste can be ignored, as a professional teacher (if you're from Europe remember they are paid by taxpayers!) should be self aware enough to differentiate between objective criteria and subjective feelings. Also any pseudo psychological feedback is useless. I think in the end the most valuable feedback/critique changes you. It forces a reaction. Either you rework something or you get back to some basics or it moves you into a new direction. Bad critique just stuns you. Imagine someone tells you, you have to change completely, change your look, your personality and then he/she will like you. Well, why should you waste your energy on this? Instead you should look for people who accept you the way you are and help you to grow. The same is true for art.
This is so well explained and I 100% agree. You've made a great point. Thanks.
thank you so much for your comment! it really help me to understand various things in the video! thanks again!!
The only thing worse than getting negative critique is getting no critique on your work at all.
Getting bad critique is worse than no critique at all.
I think it's the other way round
Tbh I'd agree with this. Even if it's a bad critique or not constructive it's something that will train you. No critique is just an absolute lack of engagement, which sucks really.
@@Rebe8d89AH id been posting some of my work on CG cookie forums which is a learning site for 3D artists, yet no one even seemed to look at my stuff and it just left me feeling totally dejected like what is even the point? I posted work on other sites and people told me it was nightmare fuel. I asked them to clarify what was wrong and they said it was the dead eyes. .. I got better critique because I engaged with the bad critique.
Wise works Stan. So when are we going to listen to the next Draftsman podcast episode? :D
I remember when I was going to school for art (public university) I had a professor who is a world-renowned artist, and he taught all of the life drawing classes and most of the oil painting classes. I was in one of his oil classes one day, and it was a still life class, and we had all of our still lifes set up and were painting them, and there was this one lady (somewhere in her 40's) who moved her easel off to the side, had her headphones in so she was blissfully unaware of everything around her, and she was painting some sort of abstract color scene. Well, my professor went over to her and gently reminded her that although her work was nice, while we were in class she needed to be painting a still life or she'd need to make room for other students. This lady (may we call her Karen?) then proceeded to rip him a new one about how "art was expression so she could do whatever she wanted" and "she was a teacher of art and had 3 bachelor degrees and was only getting this fourth degree for a teaching certificate so she was already well qualified to understand art" and blah blah blah. Bear in mind that my professor was a sweet elderly man who treated everybody in all his classes like they were his kids (or grandkids). He actually had to pull her out into the hallway for a talk like she was in middle school. I know in this scenario he wasn't really "critiquing" her work so much as asking her to get with the program, but let me tell ya, she was no peach when we did give critique either. Some people just can't handle it.
There was also another lady at my same school who always threw a fit during critique, and she actually failed her final for (I think) life drawing class, because she didn't do the assignment and just drew a stick figure with a penis on it and turned it in. She caused such a big ruckus after failing the final that she was thrown out of the school, and then tried for years to sue the school over it.
And then there was a third girl, probably only 19 or 20 years old, one of my professors went over to her painting and literally wiped the paint off with a paper towel and told her to start over. She left the room to cry for a minute, but then came back and did a much better painting. And she improved with every class she took, most of them with that same professor who wiped her painting clean. Crazy how not having a meltdown and listening to critique will actually help. Also crazy that she was just a young pup instead of those middle aged wackos who couldn't handle having their feelings hurt.
There's this guy on UA-cam who says in the video that he will be giving absolutely constructive criticism, but in the thumbnail it's either him saying that he is roasting your art or is just flat out saying you're trash. And the actual critiques are nothing short of just insults and hurtful comments.
Edit: I'm not talking about Ethan Becker. That guy is hilarious.
Who be?
I’m laughing so hard right now because I feel like you’re taking about Ethan Becker
You Think You're So Big, You Think You're So Tough
@@user-xf2rm7pp4z nah I'm not talking about him, he's just trolling.
Channel name?
Is it ok that im critical about myself and feel like i know what i have to work on?
I got high to celebrate NJ legalizing weed and spent all day listening to these podcasts + Proko's interviews. So much to learn, so much appreciation for this guy for us beginner artists. What a fucking day.
The most useless types of critiques in my opinion as a teacher are the facebook artist crits that will rip apart a new artists work or go on at length about things that are self explanatory like ' improve your anatomy ' or ' learn perspective' or ' draw constantly'. Advice in this vein will cripple a new artists development. Its better to constructively point out what they are doing correctly, identify artists they like, and instead of telling them to ' work on anatomy ' refer them to an artists like Loomis who is a good gateway into academic drawing for both beginners and seasoned professionals. Suggest some old masters they can look at like Da Vinci, specifically his drawings, and suggest that they should relegate an hour a day, no more no less to drawing from observation. This is way better then following the advice from a lot of arstation nerds who will double down on the " hustle culture " narrative that if your aren't drawing constantly youll never level up and insist on telling themselves that their art sucks and that yours does too
AND... about that last point, they may know of something that you don't know, and it may end up being very helpful. They may not know how to do it (yet), but they may have learned to identify such and such aspects of drawing.
Its all well and good to tell people to have thick skin, but thats what portfolio reviews are for. If someone is going to say that someones art sucks its better that its an Editor at a convention or art director rather then some random guy on facebook. Better for fellow artists to be constructive to one another. You can be constructive and still address flaws but let the super harsh crits be reserved for the people hiring artists bc when you hear it from an Editor it will stick with you more and you know youll be getting the straight talk from the only people that really matter in terms of your aims of getting a job in the field. I know I found the times I got ripped apart on facebook annoying and counterproductive but the time I got ripped apart at a con face to face from editors I did after I had time to digest their advice beneficial. What helped though was knowing that THIS was the person that I needed to convince that I had solid fundamentals. I. must have shown my work to Zenescope at least ten times over 4 years before I got good feedback and contact info from editors but I was in dialogue with these people and not people online in facebook forums.
That last one especially. Maybe I was part of the wrong art community...
Stanuel
I think pointing out what is wrong with a piece is worthless. Chances are author already can see what is wrong, the problem is how to fix it. Good critique presents solutions. I noticed a lot of people especially in discords just repeat youtuber buzzwords and think they're helping while it's just a waste of time.
dislike for thumbnail