MOMENTEM HANDGRINDER: First Look
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2022
- If you have ideas on how to fix the current issues, comment them below. Mickie is open to suggestions and I'm sure he will be looking through the comments. I'm unsure how to fix the "give" in the axel connection, but I'm sure someone watching will have ideas.
I love innovative steps in coffee and hope this project inspires further innovation elsewhere.
What are your thoughts?
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Thank you for all the feedback, Lance. We think we are on the right direction, regarding the issues in this prototype such as hard to grind super fine, we will make some adjustments in our next version
1. Use 10mm or 12mm axles, and increase the connection area of the two axles; update stronger materials
2. Refine the adjustment system and increase the alignment of all parts
3. Use a new pre-breaking burr that has less cutting surface
4. Update the adjusting crank and add new pin ball below to make the whole adjusting experience smooth and easy.
Regaridng the pre-breaking burr, the cutting surface on the pre-breaking burr helps with grinding espresso, we find it is easier to grind medium fine first and then fine for espresso. If we grind coarse first then grind fine, it is difficult because the second burr doesn't have much breaking surface so that properly arm wrestler can finish the super fine grinding :D
Again, thank you for all the feedback, and if anyone who are interested in hand grinding and want to help us perfect the MOMENTEM, please DM us, we hope to hear your thoughts and suggestions. Thank you so much.
Of course, if you like the idea of two-step grinding and believe that we can solve the issues in our current prototype, please support us, you can pre-order the MOMENTEM on our website or on Indiegogo. We hope MOMENTEM will push the hand grinder industry forward. We will KEEP GRINDING.
I personally love the design and where this is going.
Hopefully you’ll hear one suggestion I have: on my Helor 101 the bottom jar also fits on the top of the grinder when you remove the handle. It means you can weight the beans in the bottom jar then place your grinder upside-down on the bottom jar and flip everything to have all your beans inside. It is so simple yet so convenient. No spilling, no pouring.
@@Maxime-ho9iv This is an amazing idea and could improve workflow by eliminating bean cup/doser and making filling of the grinder more enjoyable and fun. @I'M NOT A BARISTA please consider this! ;D
@@Maxime-ho9iv Thanks for the suggestion, Maxime. We actually thought about this in the design stage and we found the grinder looks like a dumbbell LOL that is why the top is about 58mm and the bottom is 68mm wide, so it has this good balance for the eyes.
@@Dzbiq Thanks, Marcin.
@@IMNOTABARISTA Thanks for your reply. You can add a lip, on the inner side of the jar, so that you don’t have to increase the top of the grinder too much. If it’s 58mm versus 68mm, it should be easily manageable.
I can’t stress enough how this feature, despite being so simple, is actually a killer one for a hand grinder, for everyday use and on the go.
This is so interesting and has lots of potential!
Just want to say video quality is getting much better, good job
Thank you! Means a lot from you, friend.
Delightful vid as always Lance ! Great to see that brands listen to feedback and are able to exchange with users
Love you content, keep up the good work
Awesome! I’ve been doing this with my Timemore Slim Plus and finishing in my JMAX. Bit of retention loss but no biggie. Makes grinding espresso fine a breeze. Hope they work out the kinks, I’d love to save a step in switching between grinders. Keep up the great work!
super super excited about this grinder and what it does to the market as a whole!
Agreed!
Thank you, Nick.
Hey! The use of the no talking sections and minimal talking sections whilst you were doing bits made the video very easy to watch and follow along. The pacing was great and very enjoyable
This video helps a lot
Two grinds (very coarse then very fine) is how I've done a Turkish grind for quite some time.
You can also try fine and very fine :D
Watched plenty of your videos recently on grinders, I have the Wilfa Savante for filter coffee and I'm happy with it but recently purchased the ROK espresso maker and I'm looking for a good grinder, I don't really want another electric one as I'm a minimalist who prefers clear counter tops (hence the ROK) and have concluded from a crazy amount of videos the Kinu M47 will do just the trick, and maybe the Q2 Hep for filter (more free counter space lol) would you say they'd equally pair well for the desired coffee?
Lance Hedrick FTW!!!
Very interesting video, thanks Lance. Is this a natural progression from what Timemore was aiming for on the Chestnut X with the S2C burr? Self-confessed Billy Basic here, I generally prefer the coffee from my K-Plus in comparison to the Chestnut X to be honest. Although both are great grinders. Do you think this is a trend that will take off or more of a very specialist niche?
Sounds really promising, hope you keep us updated as this idea develops.
Thanks, we will get the next version done asap, you will hear more good news :)
Hey Lance ! Is their any chance you could do a how to brew video for the Hario switch with a v60 cone? I know you did one with the switch base and other brewers. But it would be awesome to see your take on v60 switch brew
Love you lancyyyyyy
The love is mutual🥰
Handgrinding for espresso looks (and really is) pain and suffering ;-;
Can't wait for my Eureka Mignon Filtro + Tilt Base + Single Dose Hopper Bellows + Espresso burrs >:)
Or would you recommend the SPTK38 ? Not sure if it's the best decision but fingers crossed. Thanks for the vid as usual Lance :D
This is gonna be so expensive holy cow. But it does get me hyped up even if I wont be able to buy it.
Not necessarily expensive if you pre-order now :D only $399
what is your thoughts on pour overs in cafes I will be starting a cafe and am trying to decide on doing them or not I go back and forth they are so labor intensive and drip brewers and getting so much better! please let me know!!!
If meccano made grinders 😂 So many parts!
Loads of them! Got easier the more I disassembled and reassembled, though
So after watching this video I tried some double grinding business...
The results... an excellently tasty cup of coffee. I'm very surprised at the results and how much flavor resulted in the cup.
Thanks broski!
Especially juicy and refined acidity.
The power of two-step grinding, have fun :) You can try adjusting your first step grind size, and see how that affect your cup taste.
@@IMNOTABARISTA Thank you for the insight!
Would love to see a more in depth video in two step grinding.
I'm really amazed at how much of a difference it has made on my first and second try. I didn't change any adjustment, but used a different coffee. Great experience.
And the extra bonus: the coffee I just made is a VERY light roast and has been difficult to grind, but this morning, it was like butter - cutting through the coffee on both steps was easy. Along with way less fines and none stuck to the inside of the catch cup.
@@GoTellJesusSaves The power of two-step grinding :D glad you like the result, have fun and let us know how adjusting the 1st grind size affect your cup taste :)
@@IMNOTABARISTA So I did try adjusting the first grind finer than before. It made more fines (which I also sifted out) and the results were not as juicy, however more acidic. It seemed to remove some of the complexity as well.
Still a good flavor and enjoyable. Just not as sweet and juicy as I like it.
just wanted to note that there is probably good reason for the loose fit between the top and bottom axles. from an engineering standpoint the top axle is concentric to the location of the bearings in the housing. the lower burr shares the same relationship with its housing. In between the top and bottom housing it is only located by the ball detents. ball detents in a loose slip fit is needed to provide easy separation but it causes misalignment since it does not go 100% back to concentric. if the top and bottom axle were to have very tight tolerances then that misalignment would cause binding. this is because the bottom axle is being overconstrained. it cannot be concentric to the top and the bottom housings at the same time. The bearing locations provide the concentric alignment of the bottom burrs and the axle joint provides the driving torque.
Exactly my thought watching the video. The alignment is completely unrelated to the wobble shown between the 2 axes.
Thanks for the comment, Nipun. We don't think these two axles need to be 100% aligned because they work differently. In our protoype development, precision is usually the last step we consider. In our next prootype, we will adjust the CNC machiens and improve the production precision in order to reduce the gap betweent the 2nd burr set (the hexagonal base) and the girnder body, maybe a slightly thick axle would help improve the aligntment, of course, we will also adjust the machine to improve the burr set precision, we can't wait to see the final product :)
Is that a Wug2 back there? My Wug2 HG-1 motor does a great job
So any updates on this grinder, is it still being developed or what?
I'm not sure what the benefit of having a shorter handle or LESS torque would be, seems like a silly feature to add. Same with the sifting feature, although maybe could be useful for removing super fine particles (which hopefully it doesn't produce a lot of anyway).
I presumed it was for espresso as well as other brew methods, disappointing if it's not. Also they claimed the grinder was easier to grind with due to dual burrs, however I'm not sure the logic makes sense, you still need the same amount of work/energy put into it, it's just split up the work in two sections. So maybe initially with the coarser pre-breaker it would easy before coffee makes it down to the 2nd burr, but then in the mid part of grinding you'll have coffee at the top burr and bottom burr and even if each burr is doing half the work (or one is doing 1/3rd the work and the other 2/3rds), you're still powering both burrs at the same time providing 100% of that energy.
I did think about backing this, but instead, I'm going with a Q2 heptagonal for pre-breaking and a JX Pro for regrinding. I think this combo is exceptional.
If doing that for espresso, that is great. If filter, I'd say just use the q2 heptagonal.
@@LanceHedrickgood tip! why would you recommend the Q2 over JX Pro for filter?
Jx pro is moreso made to be an espresso grinder. The k series is more for filter/multi purpose. The q2 hept is very similar to the k series and the comandante in cup quality.
@@LanceHedrick I just got the X-Pro a month ago. Would love to see a review from you on that one compared to the ZP6 (I've now forgotten which one it was you love) :).
@@freezingsunbreaka Xpro PSD is more like a Kplus. ZP6 is very unimodal. Less fines than Kplus but this ain't necessarily better. In fact, ZP6 is not widely accepted by filter coffee enthusiasts.
XPRO is an amazing grinder. To me it's the best grinder on the market today (given it's performance/price)
An alternate way to remove the chaff is to not use RDT. The static will take care of the chaff for you. Messy but effective.
Yes, MOMENTEM comes with a RDT spray bottle for this :)
Hi Lance, Love the video!
For filter coffee in a Baratza Encore, Would you recommend grinding on a coarse setting (idk setting 30+?) and then grinding finer (setting 12 or 13 on the factory coarse calibration?) to get a better/tastier grind distribution?
Coffee grinders come with kief catchers now?
please review the kaffelogic nano 7 roaster
Hi Lance, any thoughts on the Royal grinder from flair? wonder if it is really a good option for expresso grinds
It does fine for espresso. Nothing special
@@LanceHedrick If it could do coarse and 'spro, that would be very special! :D
@@LanceHedrick thx!
Love the idea and now it needs a electric motor on it for making espresso
😅 maybe later !
You should make a similar review of pietro flat burr grinder when it’s released…. I really wanna see if they actually succeed with that.
But yes interesting idea with the dual burr, but I was bit concerned when I heard about the dual axis. Thanks for the honesty about it, hopefully they fix as much of that as possible can.
Oh absolutely. I'm curious how it will turn out!
It's not cool to publish your videos during the working hours. I had to drop my work for half an hour 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Haha! Blame me when the boss comes by lol
@@LanceHedrick I have to brew him a good cup of coffee to make it up 😅
Haha perfect!
Lunchtime-only viewing for me 😅
Do you have, or can you point me to, any data on regrinding improving grind distributions?
I can’t wait for 1zpresso to make a dual burr hand grinder. Based on their track record I’m sure they’ll crush it.
I'd also love to see their take on an electric grinder!
I'm sure they will at some point! Seems to be the next step in grinder innovation
I think if the carrier tolerances are tight enough, the loose connection in the shafts shouldn't cause misalignment. If anything, I'd almost think having a bit of play there would help to keep the top axle from pushing sideways on the bottom axle.
Also, really fun video 👍🙏
Issue is it seems the bottom wobbles quite a bit due to the give. With wobbly bottom, I don't think you could go very fine because burr rub would happen sooner, no?
@@LanceHedrick I totally agree about the wobble and the burr rub, I just think the best way to fix it would be tightening tolerances on the bottom burr assembly.
The bottom burr assembly is essentially it's own independent grinder. There's no need for it to be aligned to the top burr set, just to itself.
@@thodgson13 We will do some more tests, such as using thicker axles, currently we use 8mm, maybe 10mm or even 12mm will help with this. The wobble could be caused by the current production precision, better adjustment the machines minimize this issue. Let us know if you have some suggestions :)
Oh agree! But if the connection at the axel allows for wobble, even if the whole assembly is internally aligned, if the axel is off it will misalign with the collar
So..... and experiment idea. What if I did the double grind (coarse first grind, then regrind at the final/fine setting) with a cheapo conical burr grinder. Would that give a expensive grinder type of result?
In most cases, if the grinder is good enough, yes.
It should be way better than grinding once, but your limit is still the burr itself because the 2nd grinding still comes from that burr :)
13:00 this is like resembling a gun
Haha! Lots of fun clicks to be sure
the thumbnail is living in my nightmares now
They call me Burr Eye the Grinder Guy for a reason
lol 🤣
This thumbnail is something else 🤖
Ha! Too cheeky?
If silverskin is bad, the solution is to only drink naturally processed coffee ;)
Aha, thanks to Lance's review, we are experiencing a new way to collect the silverskin, installing a small filter above the cutting burr set :) that may just work to solve this problem.
On a related note; do you know if anyone tried experimenting with multi grind setting espresso shots to get a better results in the cup? (Ie; instead of grinding all 18 grams at a grind setting of 10, you grind 8gms at 12 and 10gms at 8 for example to keep the ratio at 1:2 but have a wider flavor profile shot). I’ve been thinking about this but I don’t know if my logic is flawed. What do you think?
Give it a shot. Not much to lose.
This is already happening to an extent in normal grinding scenarios but you could definitely make it more drastic! Give it a go! Just not super easy lol
@@LanceHedrick unfortunately I don’t own a good enough grinder to do this test reliably. Also I don’t trust my palette that much to be able to discern the difference. I was wondering about it in a more theoretical sense because of how baristas describe grind size being a game of balance/compromise between body, acidity and sweetness.
@@DigitalicaEG Regardless, fun to try, eh? Give it a shot on a weekend :). I'll try it next weekend :).
@@DigitalicaEG You don't need a great grinder to do that, try triple grinding :D
Gotta love that 90s porn music in the beginning of the video when Lance caresses the grinder
Is that the 1zpresso X Pro in the background?
Absolutely it is
Just got one last month. Looking forward to his review :)!
oh hi, i like this time together too
i'm having a double latte
love from canada :)
xoxoxo
Wonderful! I hope it is super tasty!
"dual burr grinder" had my jaw literally drop. what the ... oO
Dude, I just bought a K-Plus, don't make my upgradeitis flare up this quickly again ...
You're good with the k plus!
You just bought the best hand grinder on the market today.
I’m surprised to see a Comandante appearance. Did something change? I thought they were no longer being supported or endorsed?
Why? Its the gold standard of handgrinders.
I was starting to sweat when you were staring me down while grinding that colombian gesha
I like the build shape of the grinder. My issue with most hand grinders is they are hard to grip while grinding. I wish someone would solve that problem. And, I wonder if this shape helps that somehow?
Many factors affect this, the weight, the shape, and the surface of the gripping area. MOMENTEM comes with a silicon sleeve so it will be easier to hold while grinding, the top wine bottle neck area (the 58mm adjusting ring) will be right above your index finger stopping the grinder slide down, meanwhile, the silicon grip will stop grinder rotating in your hand, this is very effective when you grind for espresso.
we are also learning from the mountain bike grips, see how we can take some of their ergonomic design into our grip, stay tuned.
This is a big jump in video quality Lance, great job on the lighting and audio. i would advise to try different background light colors to test out (yellow and orange maybe? personal preference)
well done.
I actually found the lighting a bit off for him. Lance was a lot more warm with the kitchen setting. The grading need some work as well, too green and cool for him.
Lance, please write a book…we will throw money at you. I threw money at James (The Hoff) for his and am loving it. Yours next, pretty please and thank you. Consider this my down payment:💰💰💰
Is there any way to get a refund for the patreon membership? It renewed from last year and I really can’t afford it😥😥
How does this compare to the: Kinu M47 Phoenix Coffee Grinder? The Kinu seems to have some small details that seem more friendly and easy in use.
Hey! I discuss the kinu briefly here!
I clicked on this video for the thumbnail alone
Haha! Love to hear it
If tolerances were improvemented the connections look like have enough flat surfaces to definitely be able to have enough torque to grind for espresso
Oh definitely. With the misalignment I couldn't get the bottom burr close enough without rub for it.
@@LanceHedrick hopefully just a production error in before a proper full realise and get some better bearings which should solve the issue
We are sure this is the prototype general issue, the final product surely will have much better alignment in all parts. With Lance's feedback, we are confident all the issues will be fixed soon. Thank you for your support.
Agree!
At 12:27 you mention the comandante have a two bearing "kassis". Not sure what that is and wondering if maybe you're referring to it as a chassis? If so, I think this might be one of those situations where you only ever see a word in writing. If so, the ch is like in chat and the whole word is pronounced like chassee.
Correct. I'd never really heard people say it. I'd only ever read the word and always pronounced it incorrectly lol
Ninth! 😂
Top 10 tho!
Yo!
Woo! Winner winner chicken dinner
@@LanceHedrick 👊🏻
Chassis = CHASSEE
I always wonder whether a coffee enthusiast (not an expert, but someone who enjoys specialty coffee) could taste a difference between such sophisticated, expensive grinders and a more conventional but well executed grinder from aliexpress. Same goes for an espresso machine. Will someone, who is not a top level expert, even taste the difference between a well made espresso from a 10k LaMarzocco to one from a 600 dollar Rancilio Silvia?
The answer to that is a bit more difficult than I can explain because it isn't a simple yes or no. There are loads of variables that go into it. Short answer- if the person making the coffee knows really well what they're doing and how to optimize their rancilio through modifications kr what have you, then probably not. But espresso machines are a bit different than grinders. Much easier to tell the difference with grinders!
@@LanceHedrick thank you for the great answer!
@@audriusa7005 WDT with the Sage; no WDT with the Niche. All that test really showed was that puck preparation makes a difference.
@@baldheadracing ofcourse, that goes without saying, but it also showed how its not guarantee to taste better with expensive grinder and my idea was that maybe if we have a decent mid range grinder (niche,df etc) we re not really missing that much by not having weber grinder or something of its caliber. Couple weekends ago I had an espresso at coffee shop from Leva X, and that espresso left no impression whatsoever
@@audriusa7005 Taste is subjective; there are people who prefer Starbucks. My point was the same result could have been achieved with the same grinder doing both shots; one shot with WDT, and one without. As for missing out, in my experience, what one is missing out with high-end grinders depends on the qualities of the coffees that one drinks. For example, an excellent traditional espresso roast is going to taste great on a Niche (63mm Kony), but perhaps not as great on a Nautilus (98mm SSP HU). However, a light-roasted Panama Geisha from a top-rated farm is going to be amazing from the Nautilus, but unfortunately nowhere near as tasty on a Niche (my tastes). As for the Leva X, it offers a lot of flexibility to the barista - and so it is up to the barista to use the machine in a way to get the most out of a particular roast.
I hope Comandate don’t come after this manufacturer for ‘copying’ their design 🙄
🤞🤞🤞
If they start selling through EU resellers, it's only a matter of time as C really believe this hand crank shape is unique to them. 🤦🏻♂️
Comandante has every right to defend their patents. ☮️
@@danymeeuwissen5973 and other parts stolen from them blatantly like the burr design. To be precise.
@@ninetendopesaitama2107 their burr design wasn't original and isn't patented. It's only about the bend in the crank arm that's 'unique' and they should never have received a community design for this. Only this year, they got one for their non-original design of the bean tray. 🤦🏻♂️
it supposed to grind more evenly but it tastes like kinu M47? That sounds suspicious.
That is properly the 2nd burr issue, not perfectly aligned well, the taste is actually very different from Kinu M47 based on our cupping (with another prototype)
first?
Second 🥲
$600 for a hand grinder I better be able to grind any size coffee I want, from atoms to entire beans.
Not exactly a budget grinder! The Sette 270 is $200 less and will probably match espresso quality. No?
It’s a bit harder to fit the Sette 270 in a suitcase.
@@Maxime-ho9iv I have large suitcases! Lol!
Unfortunately it is not in this stage, maybe later we can bring down the cost :)
Hey Cute T , I say someone , maybe U 🤯 , make a GOOD GRINDER than none of us will have that issue ! Maybe I can hire a butler to grind for me! HA !
# Tired of grinders NOT being cleaner in their results 😒
## frustrated
15:14
James Hoffman has entered the chat
🤣🤣🤣
wsp
Not sure what that means but yeah! Lol
what is up
Am I the only one who thinks that 600 bucks is quite steep for a grinder that can only do filter very well? But then again I am not in the filter game whatsoever so what do I know? 😅
Ha! So apparently they are working to fix these issues so it is capable of espresso as well. We will see!
It is only $399 if you pre-order it now :) market price is $499. $600 is with the leather case, sorry for the confusion here.
Too many parts....
I agree
The grinder is too complicated and many parts. Honestly the prototype is usually better than the finished product. I don’t think this grinder will be relevant in the market.
Honestly the prototype is usually better than the finished product? How come?
@@IMNOTABARISTA when I received the goat story Arco , it was poorly made . The QC wasn’t the price range. Usually the prototype should be worse one, but it doesn’t mean the finished product will fix all the issues, so I would recommend you to try it when it releases in the future , and then you can make your decision.
Way to many parts IMO.
but very easy to asemble :) it is more like click click click :D
I guess . . . if you have nothing but time
ZZZZZZZZ! UGH
Omg are you the famous magician?!
Looks like rubbish compared to 1zpresso. save ur self some money and get a K ultra
Agreed for now
@@LanceHedrick would love to see your thoughts on the pietro flatburr hand grinder when it’s released
@@NL-fb9wg I have one now😁
@@LanceHedrick 🤣🤣🤣 yes please sir