Spectacular Spider-Man still has the best MJ. She’s the one that feels the most like the comic character. Both from the introduction where both Spectacular and Comics present her that the perfect girl for Peter, and how they expand on her relationships with the rest of the cast and Gwen specifically. She has that energy that made her so charming and the sincerity that came from her later and more modern years.
94 Mary Jane is the same where feeling like the comic character is concerned and even when she had to be saved she was still more of a character you could like and was more sympathetic and likable than the Raimi version who only borrowed very little from this version.
I also really like/appreciate that despite MJ being the definitive spiderman love interest she isn't introduced/treated as a love interest for the majority of the show. she is actually more there to help peter & the others with their relationship problems or personal issues. (the funniest moment for me was during the christmas episode peter was repeatedly being indecisive on whether he should be with gwen or liz but when they both blow him off, MJ comes to him and he starts thinking "wow, maybe MJ could be the one" but then she literally snaps him out of thought and goes "hey peter stop that, that's half your problem right there") her and peter come off as two people you could totally see dating later in life, just not at this current moment
@@christopherauzenne5023 94 MJ was also that way for the majority of that show even if Peter wasn’t as distracted between choosing MJ or Felicia she also reminded Peter when he did even though she was less confident and assertive it was not that much and she didn’t become the definite love interest until Felicia finally realized what Morbius became despite Peter trying to warn her earlier and she also was better than the Spectacular version at helping Peter and others where their personal or relationship issues are concerned one because we saw her face her abusive background and came off better for it afterward and we saw her being a helpful friend before she was a love interest while Spectacular showed this too it was always glimpses or in the background so in my opinion 94 Mary Jane was like this too and was better at it than Spectacular Mary Jane because we know more about her as well as it wasn’t ever in the background like it was in Spectacular I don’t think she was a definite love interest for Peter until the third or fifth season (while yeah a water clone but a more helpful supportive person for Peter and her friends and a more definite love interest than Spectacular).
@@christopherauzenne5023 same! I’m never a big fan of when they are the go-to relationship right off the bat . Especially in a Spider-Man show where he’s in high school. Let them both grow as people first
My favorite version of Mary Jane is the TAS. I specially like how the show goes step beyond other adaptations and actually explore Mary Jane past (including her relationship with her father and Hydro Man obsession with her), as well showing her being badass (she gets kidnapp but also has moments where she is able to handle her problem by outsmarting villains like Hydro man and Kingpin henchmen)
And that's why she's a better MJ than the Spectacular and especially the Raimi version which only borrowed very little from TAS Mary Jane with the abusive backstory and getting kidnapped by Spidey's villains but ignoring any of the growth and likability that made and still makes the 94 MJ the definite version of the character (Spectacular MJ may've been confident and assertive but that's all we got anything she did was always in the background or rushed even 2017 MJ was more fleshed out and yes I went there not sorry deal with it move on.)
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Yeah but it was a more hopeful and optimistic ending compared to the downers we got in TNAS and Spectacular and while I like Spectacular MJ she was always a background character and her helping Gwen being noticed by Peter or dating Mark Allan could've been fleshed out more instead of brief glimpses that we got.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Never said it wasn't good especially since that Electro is what TASM 2 tried and failed to duplicate same could be said of that version of Lizard where TASM's concerned.
It’s funny that MJ gets slapped with the Damsel In Distress label because in the comics she actually got rarely kidnapped and from her first encounter with Rhino mainly stayed out of danger.
My favourite MJ is easily the PS4 version. She actually contributes to the plot, and is a refreshing change from the “Damsel in distress” trope without making her be a totally overpowering “Girl power” character.
I fucking love how MJ in Spectacular just immediately mogs every girl the moment she enters the scene. I mean, God damn that voice... that voice does things to a man...
I despise ps4 mj, not only do they try to turn her into an obnoxious Lois lane, but she is an extremely toxic partner, she takes her own insecurities out on peter leading to her dumping him, but she then tries to make peter feel bad enough to apologise for doing nothing wrong, they had to make black cat even worse to make her look better by comparison, I would say to make her spinneret to get over her not wanting to be saved complex but this version doesn’t deserve it, spectacular reigns supreme
Spider-man no way home Michelle Jones: Do you have MJ in your universe? Gigachad Tobey: Yeah and she is not a N*(movie cut to end credits follwed by Hey Ho Let's Go)
Ultimate mj was my fav because their chemistry with peter are so cute tbh and she is a badass and they were kissed each other when they were kids its sad they didin't show us they kissed again but they show us they were dating on season 4 before she became a spider woman
My favorite mj iterations are the ps4 one and Michele Jones. Mj Ps4: I've never been a big fan of superman. I didn't read the comics, and the superman live-adaptation in the dceu Is just boring. So the lois lane complaint i cant relate too. Even tho I didn't like her missions in the ps4 game, I liked her alot. Tbh anything is better than the rami mj. And their relationship was very cute Michelle Jones: Her and Peters was so adorable. U could tell Tom and Zendaya are fucking outside of the movies. She was fine in homecoming but in far from home and no way home she really shined . She was different than the other mj adaptations and it was refreshing.
It's worth pointing out that the idea for MJ to have had an abusive father isn't something that the Sam Raimi films came up with; it was borrowed from the 80s Spider-Man comics (starting with Amazing Spider-Man #259 iirc). So in a way, it *was* faithful to the source material, just not specifically the Stan Lee era.
In the comics, Mary Jane did come from an abusive home. In later comics, they expanded on her past by saying her Dad was abusive, and her whole party girl act was an escape
Marvel spider-man animated series season 5 episode 13 Farewell Spiderman Madame Web took the Spider-man to the pink wormhole limbo to finds the real Mary Jane Watson at end of the episode show in January 31,1998.
What if the Spiderman found the Mary Jane Watson in the pink wormhole limbo in the pictures again from Peter Parker of the Spider-man in July 21,2012. Spider-man unmasked to the real Mary Jane Watson again in the pink wormhole limbo again. Then the Peter and Mary Jane were happy to see each other again.
Marvel spider-man animated series revival changeorg Disney plus signatures 9,757 next goal 10,000. Hope the Marvel spider-man animated series season 6 to continue in the Disney plus again in 2024.
Yeah if we saw more of her after her debut she’s just a background character and yeah it’s faithful doesn’t mean it works I prefer Mary Jane from spider-man 94 she’s combination of Gwen and MJ from the comics and that’s okay.
2:03 Interesting commentary on MJ vs Gwen in the Raimi trilogy. What’s funny also is that Kristen Dunst naturally has blonde hair and dyed it red for the role, and Bryce Dallas Howard naturally has red hair and dyed it blonde…
Not to mention the original versions of MJ and Gwen have green and blue eyes respectfully yet Kristen Dunst has blue eyes while Bryce Dallas Howard has hers green.
Setting aside my praise for Spectacular's MJ, I liked that 2017 made her a student athlete as a contrast to Peter's nerd. Too bad she was introduced very late in the series (aside from her cameo as the school's mascot) so her and Peter becoming a couple felt very rushed.
yeah I remember how disappointed I was because it was kind of a neat idea and it was like the first time a Spider-Man cartoon made them an official couple since the MTV series but they barely did anything with her, which is especially weird because there was a lot of marketing around it
A lot of things in Spider-Man 2017 were very rushed or forced it doesn't outweigh the good and introducing MJ no matter how rushed still worked especially where being with Peter was concerned so I'm okay with it.
@@kodieparx We weren't hit with her we did get to know her regardless of how brief it was there's a reason why Spider-Man 2017 is seen as an improvement over Ultimate Spider-Man even though UA-cam refuses to believe it it doesn't talk down to anyone and Peter is annoying in the first few episodes that's all he is not grating or childish like in Ultimate and Robbie Daymond is seen as an improvement over Drake Bell for that reason alone that and the team ups actually help Spidey become a better hero and not a butt monkey like in Ultimate even in the worst episodes it's still better than Ultimate.
Sometimes I miss the extroverted model Mary Jane, I feel most incarnations of Mary Jane now borrow from the ultimate comics where Mary Jane was like Peter
Spectacular is my favorite. Because of the slow burn and the fact she’s not immediately his love interest but there’s clearly something there. Like Greg Weisman said, we know those two are destined, but the goal was to make us love Gwen first just like Peter, so she had a presence in the world BUT wasn’t just there for him.
yeah, same, I really like how she isn't even really a love interest the first two seasons but more the friend who tries to help peter (and others) through their relationship troubles. she really comes off as someone you could see peter ending up with later in life, just not right now
@@christopherauzenne5023 yeah except 94 MJ was like that too the friend who to tries help Peter and others through their relationship troubles. If anything her abusive backstory actually makes her as someone you could see peter ending up later in life just not right now in fact she didn't become a definite love interest until the fourth or fifth season (a water clone or not)
Yeah but it's not like 94 didn't have a slow burn either she wasn't so much an immediate love interest than a blind date and it was actually Morbius that made them destined for each other. If Morbius hadn't taken Peter's blood sample they wouldn't have realized how similar they were and like Gwen the goal was to make us love Felicia first just like Peter so she had a presence in the world BUT wasn't just there for him either like I keep saying anything spectacular did 94 already did and in a lot of cases better.
@@WebbedManiac No I just sound angry because people want to think Spectacular outdoes 94 it doesn’t anything Spectacular did 94 did already not saying it’s not good but it doesn’t outdo 94 or the Raimi trilogy and I can’t be the only one who believes that.
"Mary-Jane is the most powerful anchor that grounds Peter Parker's world" I liked that conclusion, _Spider-man_ has been adapted a lot of times over the decades, and even through some aspect of Peter Parker change in every adaptation, at it's core he's the same dorky young lad, so you need his love interest to be this modern girl (or woman, if your Peter is young asult), a bridge guiding how his unchanging core adapts to the ever-changing moment.
Well except it's not true. Why would it be true if you adapt him to the modern world. Mary Jane isn't Mary Jane if she's changed. It's just whatever girl. And I'm not saying that's wrong. But I am pointing that that isn't Mary Jane specifically. It's just a love interest. It's like saying miles morales needs Mary Jane. He doesn't. Pete didn't have Mary Jane before. Like two decades with her being a cast. Sometimes just because something sounds pretty, doesn't make it true. I get maybe you got a powerful reaffirming feeling. But I didn't because I know how much Pete existed without her. And it's fine. It works fine. Michelle Jones isn't Mary Jane. She's a generic 80,90s, and apparently z quirky girl and she works fine too. It's just name recognition.
No, that has always been Aunt May. They even make a deal with Mephisto, because even with all he’d done for good, and how long Peter and Mary Jane were kept apart, they still make his 70+ year old Aunt, more important. It’s a terrible comic, and the most hated by fans(usually), as well, but there is truth in it. If it just been Peter making the decision, he would’ve done the same thing. He’s always chosen May.
@@DSan-kl2yc I agree. I like those movies, but as Spider-Man stories, they are terrible. It’s like the worst alt universe version of Peter, and everyone else. Flash, Ned, no Harry… No Mary Jane Watson, Betty Brandt, Gwen, etc. No mention of Ben or his parents. And Holland is fun, but he’s just not playing Peter Parker. It’s the writing, and I accept that he’s Spider-Man, but I think they missed an opportunity to make a really good Iron Lad/Iron Man replacement, story. Could’ve even connected him to Kang, etc.
@@CorbCorbin And the fact that OMD is so unpopular yet the ending of Insomniac's Spiderman is widely well received tells me that after a while Mary Jane is meant to replace Aunt May in that role as Peter grows up.
I always saw MJ as part of a trinity of sorts. Gwen is represents Peter’s intellectual equal, a woman who can understand Peter’s mind. Felicia represents his power side and the genuial freedom being Spiderman brings. But she also shows the dark side of being Spiderman, she makes Peter forget his responsibility and duty, showing that the dangers of power. But MJ she is normality. She’s down to earth, has normal problems and isn’t super powered (at least originally). Many times, Peter is wishes to be normal, to have a normal life and maybe hang up the suit. That’s why she always slips away in the original comics, because with Peter’s life that is unattainable.
And then there's Chat who's the perfect girlfriend for Spiderman. His best friend and girlfriend. Accepting him both as Peter and Spiderman. With no unnecessary drama or ridiculous twists. Just a wholesome happy relationship.
I think my issue with the different adaptations of MJ is that there are so many. With someone like Lois Lane we all know how she's supposed to be and who she is. With MJ there's a lot less consistency.
Same, I don't actually like how flexible her adaptations have been over the years some more than others but compared to Louis it's just odd. Especially the reporter thing it's very Lois Lane or Iris West and that's just not who she was, if anyone would become a reporter it'd be Peter, getting a possible promotion that would fall through due to other commitments or just not take it. We need more adaptations like Gwen & MJ from TASM/Spectacular, it's faithful but updated, and not just with Spider-Man characters ALL of Marvel going forward with that approach to adaptation would please just about everyone.
I do understand where you're coming from with Raimi's version of MJ, but a lot of the creative choices for her are from later runs, such as her abusive home life. I think the direction Spider-Man 3 took with her could've been salvaged if they delved into how her history of abuse effected her reactions to bad reviews for her stage plays, instead of it just being seen a couple of times in the previous movies. I don't think Raimi MJ is terrible (at least not until Spidey 3), but I do get your trepidation for her since she didn't display the countercultural attitude she displayed in her debut in the main comics.
I remember hearing a theory that Mary Jane in Miles's universe was going to shoot Kingpin in Spider-Verse. People were wondering what she was doing in that party and what with Mary Jane most likely knowing who Kingpin was (since her husband was REALLY REALLY open), it would make sense for her to make an assassination attempt. Hopefully we get confirmation about that because if so, that'd add even more weight to Kingpin being arrested.
It's always been hilarious to me that Spectacular had the best MJ but it was also the only time she wasn't the main love interest, another reason why it sucks we never got more seasons since we didn't get to see that happen
6:00 Actually, Weisman and the other showrunners have said that, despite wanting to end the series with Peter and Mary Jane getting married, they would not kill Gwen Stacy, meaning that she and Peter would probably just break up and Peter would eventually develop a relationship with Mary Jane, with Gwen coming to accept his decision.
Or probably being unable to deal with Peter's secret life when she found out and who knows how long she and MJ would remain friends if they had MJ know the night Uncle Ben was shot they'd be friends but who knows for how longs.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 Probably they would give her an arc similar to Betty Brant in the Steve Ditko run, with her losing her father and Peter realizing he can't be with Gwen anymore, knowing she wouldn't be able to live with man who always puts his life at risk.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 The problem with that statement is they actually have Gwen and Harry would’ve fell apart pretty quickly once she realized the monster he was becoming so she would’ve gone back to Peter to truly start a relationship and MJ she would be struggling with her feelings for Peter having broken up with Mark as well as getting to know everyone else except Peter which is more likely cause she knows he’s Spider-Man why else would she let him ditch her at the dance and she might have been uneasy with Gwen and Peter being together despite her part in helping them with that she might have gotten jealous this time MJ did get like that whenever Peter was around another girl in the comics or other media despite what she said to Peter she had feelings for him but was too stubborn to act on them maybe helping Gwen getting noticed was another way of her hiding it it’s not unrealistic and has happened in real life with girls who say they like someone as a friend or brother and is too stubborn to admit or act on those feelings so she might’ve caused problems for Peter and Gwen if MJ and Gwen being friends in college is true and she’d wouldn’t be in the background but a character flaws and all someone Peter and eventually Gwen could relate to more than they thought yeah off track but Weisman has talked about his plans with Gwen if Spectacular continued.
W comments. MJ is the best Marvel Female character. She is the best friend, girlfriend and Wife. Alternate version also showed how she is great mother. Current writer Zeb wells literally trying to ruining her and other characters mainly Peter without reading past comics. Latest chapter or issues he really said norman osborn his father figure. Lol the guy who sold his own son soul for fortune.
Shailene Woodley would have been awesome as Mary Jane. And she's likely not being hyperbolic with how she describes the script. After The Descendants put her on the map, she was very selective about the type of roles she picked (she famously turned down Carrie, Tomorrowland and Fifty Shades of Grey).
Raimi MJ = Horrible Mj, Good Gwen stacy Raimi Gwen Stacy= Good MJ not even Gwen Stacy MCU MJ ? = Bad MJ and not even Mary Jane. She is her own character and she is good in No way Home. TASM Gwen = The Best MJ
I did not like Mary Jane in the PS4 game. It was so beyond mind boggling to me that they created the ultimate version of Spiderman that draws from all aspects and interpretations of the character to give you, the consumer the ultimate Spider-Man fantasy and they chose to make Spider-Man's girlfriend Lois Lane.
It was bad enough that they made her into a generic journalist character (a Lois Lane knock-off, like you said), but their decision to make you play as her, and have her boring stealth segments slow down an already bloated and sluggish game, seemed like a decision almost intended to make you dislike her.
@@peacemaster8117 Agreed. The stealth sections I did not mind during my first playthrough, I did not really enjoy them but as a breezed through them so quick I barely remembered they were in there. On a subsequent playthrough however it was so frustrating as I wanted to get them over with so bad I would end up failing them like 2 or 3 times ironically just trying to rush through them. This really made me dislike them, as there is nothing fun or even. Challenging about them, wish they were skippable
Personally for me that was the second best interpretation of MJ other than Spectacular Spider-Man one. Louis Lane is honestly a damsel and a single dimensional reporter. PS4 MJ was a journalist who dives deeper and finds clues and completes Peter's inability to squeeze everywhere to get information. She was also one of the reasons Peter stopped being overprotective and was supportive of Miles going alone.
I really don't get why so many writers write MJ like some generic destined love interest. If Peter's character arc is a boy learning to be an adult by accepting the burden of responsibility then Mary Jane's arc is a girl who has to stop treating life as a 1 women joy ride and learn to accept how she actually feels about the people around her. That's why Gwen's death is an important part in both characters lives, Peter lost everything again and was so close to crossing the line by killing Goblin and shutting himself off from everyone else. Meanwhile the carefree Mary Jane suddenly learns that her friend, alive and well all of yesterday, is now dead. Not much later her old ex Harry goes crazy, she herself nearly died, and no matter what she tells herself she can't deny that she does care about Peter. That is so much more interesting than anything any of these adaptations come up with. To be fair not all of them are showing the beginning of their relationship, and to be fair the generic childhood friend to love interest plot is what they do in Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate Spider-man, but also to be fair that particular characterization was boring in the ultimate comics too. I really feels it says something that the best MJ adaptation outside of Spectacular Spider-man is somehow Zendaya's version, a character who isn't even name Mary Jane. Like the only way they could write an interesting character was to divorce themselves from what audiences have come to expect from the character. To most people, Mary Jane is nothing more than the girl Spider-man dates, and that's kinda sad.
There's a video I remember watching about the moment where Peter is going through a rough time I think after Gwen's death and he said something to her where she's about to walk out of the door and she stops on a blank panel and then turns around and closes the door to stay with Peter despite what he said to her I can't remember for the life of me what video it was but what you said reminded me of it.
"Like the only way they could write an interesting character was to divorce themselves from what audiences have come to expect from the character" Is that a good thing or.....?
@@draykohunter6805 This scene you describe is actually the final part of "The Death of Gwen Stacy". This happened right after Peters "last" encounter" with the Green Goblin.
Honestly if I were to make a modern MJ she’d be an influencer. I feel like that’s the modern culture popular people job and still allows her to kinda jump around what with what she’s doing at the time. Want to be an actress makes UA-cam videos, wants to be a model, IG, activist, Twitter journalist it’s a broad umbrella that you can fit all these takes into one
I don't think so...rebelling against a system or circumstances designed to keep her down is maybe the one part of her character which needs to be adapted. There is nothing more mainstream than an influencer nowadays.
After reading "My dress up darling" I came to the conslusion that the main female character, Kitagawa Marin, was alot like OG Mary-Jane, with a less tragic back story. Maybe they just need to make M-J an american gyaru, in spirit at least.
So I think your too focused on her "original" depiction, even though in the comics MJ has gone waay beyond that and had plenty of time to develop and become her own person though one who is tied to Pete. And with her being the perfect girl for Peter...I mean yeah the reason shes his main love intrest in everything is that they literally were married, and whenever theres a what if story and Peter had kids in it theres a 90% chance their redheads
For the LOVE OF GOD would they ADAPT THIS WOMAN PROPERLY. She's literally one of the BEST FEMALE CHARACTERS EVER WRITTEN😭. She's been a Model, Actress and a Fashion Designer and even a HERO in the comics. She was NEVER a damsel in the distress...she was a BADASS
I actually like how they did in in The MCU Trilogy, she wasn’t a damsel in distress accept for 1 exception but Andrew saved her and redeemed himself so I’ll allow it.
If we are considering Michelle Jones she doesn't even have to have the name Mary Jane. They flexed Mary jane so hard she became unidentifiable apart from the acronym "MJ"
USM Mj is my favorite she’s probably the most unique take on MJ SM17 MJ is just adorable In terms of animated portrayals Zendaya has my heart for live action Kirsten’s version is nostalgic but not my favorite one I like her but zendaya is my fav
I like how Zendaya's MJ *isn't* a textbook perfect match for Peter, but that she's kind of quirky and weird. They're both outsiders, and can connect on that level, even if it loses the idea of MJ representing the "normal" life that Peter can't have. She represents a life that actually could have been, which imo makes it even worse when Peter has to leave her. (Eh, who am I kidding. They'll probably undo the mind-wipe in the next movie. After all, they already teased Ned becoming Hobgoblin. Heaven forbid we have a tragic plot twist in comic book movies which isn't immediately undone...)
The crazy part about MCU MJ is even if she is technically a different character, my parents immediately knew who she was and what role she'd play without knowing shit about Spider-Man because everyone knows who MJ is. I don't think ordinary people recognize Gwen Stacy like that. The only other supporting characters in Spider-Man or even Marvel as a whole with that level of recognition are Uncle Ben and Aunt May.
You are underestimating how recognised Gwen Stacy is as a Spiderman character, especially with Spectacular Spider-Man and especially TASM(and general audiences much preferred Gwen over Raimi MJ)
@@prufan Here's the thing 94 Spider-Man's final episode is when Gwen started being recognized in it's final episode yeah it'a an alternate earth and a very different Peter but it's the same Gwen fans knew from the comics so that was the beginning of Gwen known outside of the comics the only reason she didn't appear before then is due her premature death in the 70s but the Gwen from 94 is the same intelligent love interest as the Spectacular and TASM versions in my opinion that's when Gwen become well known outside the comics.
@@prufan You could say the same about Ultimate Gwen Stacy who's nothing like the actual character either if anything character wise mcu MJ and Ultimate Gwen are the same.
I will love an MJ that is as Party Girl and social sabby. Like: Let use beauty and arts to influence the world kind of girl. In the amazing mary jane comics we see the hustlr of her making a movie when everything falls apart. So she is not the troupe of young journo but keeps her artistic show woman aspect that seems to be forgotten. Almost every woman in comics adaptations today or are fighters, cynics or scientist while the men are... Fighters, cynics and scientist, having MJs arts background will be a breath of fresh air in a more millitaristic technocratic lansdcape of heroes and heroines in media. It also shows the hustle of the artist, Raimi Trilogy showed it well lefting MJ again as an artist that will have to fight for being in the A game for another time.
The Amazing Mary Jane comics are some of the best comics I've read. I don't mean to say they are a masterpiece or anything, just that they represent Mary Jane very well. She's just trying to make a movie while dealing with everything falling apart around her, but her determination and upbeat personality keep her (and Mysterio) going.
Couple years ago I read the Mary Jane novel. Yes, there's actually a book based on her. It seems to take a lot of inspiration from the Raimi MJ. It was a decent read. If anyone still reads, consider getting it.
and NO, MJ can't "be anything", otherwise you lose what makes her Mary Jane as a character. you can't just take identifiable and iconic elements away, she's supposed to be an actress/model
yeah mary jane kinda represents the ideal love interest in the superhero genre. her position is very versatile and can fit into whatever point in time peter is at, I think it helps due to how spider-man is one of the few superheroes that kinda actually developed and grew before comics got into the status quo. most other love interests have a fixed point while MJ was there for when peter was still in school and into his adult life.
I still really dislike the Homecoming Trilogy MJ. I get it, they don't want the characters to be similar to all the previous adaptions or the comics... But for some reason they decided "let's make her nothing like the comics or the character that she actually is! Let's not even make her a red head, give her a different name, and a completely different personality!" Basically, she's not MJ at all, and the fact that they keep throwing hints to say that she's Mary Jane is dumb. The love story is really bad... In one movie she's way too quirky, and Peter seems almost to think she's weird... Then in FFH somehow he instantly has a crush on her? Just doesn't work for me. Spectacular Spider-Man will remain the best TV show or movie adaptation of MJ
1:41 yeah, no one talked about how she almost got married at 19. She couldn't even legally get liquor yet. You know for the longest time I didn't like that she left the guy at the altar. I still don't but she was 19! Who thought that was a good idea!?
feels like he just purposefully ignored another thing than just the hair change in tom holland's version... race swapping just very amusing i would say the character isn't malleable but rather everyone keeps changing her out of some weird fear to use the most obvious version, and that is tiring cause they always get it wrong, spectacular is the closest which makes sense
I wonder why they are so hesitant in making her a model or an actress in more modern media. I wonder if the creators are just sexist and see modelling as a "stereotypical" job for her, and that they shouldn't make her too "girly".
it does seem sexist when you really think about it, she's not even allowed to be an actress either. it's really disappointing to see what modern creators have done with MJ
@@prufan the irony is that chances are they don't want to make her a model or actress out of fear of being called sexist. That's why she's being handed jobs like reporter. To some making her a model pushes gender stereotypes. Personally I think that's a silly excuse, but that's how it goes. You have one side who will say it's sexist if she's a model and another side that says it's sexist if she isn't. There is no real winning solution when getting tugged from all sides.
Peter and MJ’s relationship in the Raimi movies is an accurate depiction of two young adults in NY who are inlove with eachother but are struggling with their own personal lives and identities, they want to be with eachother but their life problems just keeps them apart, I personally liked this dynamic because it’s definitely more relatable and i think people go way too hard on MJ in these movies, they talk about her like shes the villain or something
I agree. It honestly just reeks of sexism. Especially since everyone seems to excuse peter, harry, flash and all these other male characters yet give her shit relentlessly and the only women in the movies that get praised are the agreeable goody two shoes characters like ursula and betty brant
I like zendaya, but I dont feel like she was being MJ, I feel like she was just being zendaya, which definitely makes money, but she was really just Mary Jane in name only like how Peter Parker was meant to appeal to young men that were social outcasts, and because of the reputation of Spiderman they knew they would have that demographic anyway, they decided to make Mary Jane a social outcast too, I see in shows like Clone High season 2 that they say now kids are more socially conscious and a lot of rules dont apply like they use to, but I feel like for the past 30 years they have been saying stuff like that, so how can things be changing if they have to say the same message over and over again, Things have gotten more political, but the idea some one would be cool for social activism? I mean there are definitely crowds who like that, but its hard to convince me that kids are more politically active outside of knowing the right buzzwords or news events to mention at the right time , it just seems like it appeals to college bound nerdy girls who are social outcasts, like how Peter was for boys. cause its not like Zendaya doesn't have the charisma to be this cool socially graceful party girl who the party follows and ends when she leaves the room. and honestly, if they kept that, with the activism (because you have to be a social butterfly to know what protests are happening) it would have been a better movie I just think a lot of producers, insecure about being the nerd instead of the jock, want to imagine their audience as nerds that hate their lives, and wish they were the cool business men like them, they push these stories want reaffirm that opinion by getting them to buy this product, but its the only Spiderman we got, so circular reasoning honestly , besides Far From Home, I dont really see this trilogy being well remembered maybe making Peter a guy down on his luck would give them more plot ideas, its a shame everything has to tie back to the MCU, and not give Spidrman any grounded stories, which was always his appeal. but I doubt they will make Spiderman have more catholic guilt, which I argue is his defining trait, and his pensive web swings done the streets of New York , which as as iconic as his quipping
I don't think I have a favorite adaptation of Mary Jane (yet) The animated versions are ok, Spectacular stands out between the other ones but I feel like I needed to see more of her to fully love her, it threw me off a little that she was a journalist in USM, i don't understand why on current adaptations they're so averse to make her an actress I have mixed feelings about the Raimi version, i liked that there's a few elements of her character that come from the comics, but god she really tainted the view people had on MJ from then on The mcu version is just not Mary Jane Watson for me because for starters she isn't, one thing that i always will love about MJ is that despite her 'just being a love interest' she feels like she's her own person and with that you can see why she's a good match for Peter, and not just because is the rule, but we barely know anything about mcu MJ, I have seen fans built her character better with a few headcanons than whatever the writers of these movies did, and the movies don't really show us why she and Peter are good for each other, they did not really built their relationship but we just accept it because that's what's supposed to be PS4 MJ is not as bad as people make her to be, i didn't like her characterization but at least it felt like she was the heart of Peter's life, something that I really miss from all of spider-man media lately But idk, i'm just a big fan of the character so i think i'm very hard to please on that regard
I think you said everything I felt about every version of MJ to a lesser or greater extent for some, like I love spectacular MJ a lot more, and dislike PS4 MJ as about as much as you but with a little bit more apathy. To my knowledge I can't recall any on-screen version of her be adapted as a model yet and I feel that's a shame or at least a fashion designer, at least Rami had her setup as a failed Broadway actress from the beginning despite the execution.
Other than the comics, Spectacular Spider-Man's MJ is still the best MJ so far. Kirsten Dunst's MJ when taking away the negatives and when you actually look at her on a deeper level is still up there and higher than you'd think. Blame Sony and Avi Arad for ruining her and for cutting out the deleted scenes where she shows a lot of depth. Her abusive family home life actually was accurate to the comics too. Her screaming in life or death situations also isn't a problem either but everything else negative about her I agree with like how she cheated/flirted around. PS4/Insomniac MJ is a woke Lois Lane rip off. She made a woke comment about strong women talking about that's why Hammerhead dislikes Silver Sable in the dlc which leads to Peter saying "uh okay" and can't communicate and is immature towards Peter in general. MCU "MJ" isn't Mary Jane, it's a tokenised Black washed character. She's only popular because it's Zendaya who has a irl relationship with Tom Holland where the chemistry shows in the acting that fan girls obsess over which is why she's loved. Not because the character she plays has depth or is written well. To summarise, Comics MJ, Spectacular MJ are the best and Raimi's MJs is over hated and I'd argue is better than a lot of other adaptions of her. The worst ones/lowest are MCU and Insomniacs.
I would like to point out that Zendaya and Tom Holland weren’t a couple when the first movie came out, or at least, nobody knew it. There were plenty of theories, but no one knew anything really. So I disagree with the point that her relationship with Holland is the thing that makes her character popular, but rather she is a major celebrity in her own right (predating Holland), which contributed to the character’s popularity. On the topic of “black washing”, MJ has been made and remade plenty of times before. On top of that, the MCU is a multiverse with, apparently, infinite possibilities, thus implying that there are likely many realities where MJ is black. I don’t see a reason why changing her race in this scenario would matter, especially since her race is insignificant in most adaptations. Whether MCU MJ is well written or not is a subjective matter and I myself am undecided on the subject, but I find some of your arguments to be a little unfair.
@@marisolhoffmann6447 But those theories about them being a couple before it was confirmed turned out to be true at the end of the day. Fact. People were shipping Tom and Zendaya and their chemistry and moments together on screen, behind the scenes, interviews were being admired by fan girls who even before the rumours were confirmed to be true. Fact. All this has a significant impact on the way her "MJ" is perceived instead of being based on how her character is actually written and portrayed. Don't know why you're bringing up Zendaya being a major celebrity even before she got involved with Holland as if I was dismissing her, undermining or attacking her personally or her acting ability in that sense. My point was talking about her specifically being "MJ" and her chemistry/relationship with Tom Holland which has a significant impact on how people view her as "MJ". Also, funny you mention she's a major celebrity in her own right because all you did there was add to my argument. In terms of the casting choice for MCU MJ and the fact that they got somebody that was extremely popular to cast a race swapped MJ instead of somebody that actually looks the part, fits the part of a comic book character and acts the part speaks volumes. The only thing Zendaya "MJ" does right is her "romantic support" for him but you could literally get any other girl for Peter to do that. She lacks the layers and qualities other adaptions of MJs have which stay faithful to the source material. On the topic of black washing, your double standards are clear and I can already tell this conversation won't work because we both have our minds made up but I'll say my piece. Firstly, MJ being made and remade several times, show me another Mary Jane Watson that isn't a redhead but is Peter Parker's love interest. Apart from Zendaya, there doesn't seem to be another. So your point is already null and void there. Until Zendaya, almost every if not all adaptions of MJ and her original version is a caucasian girl with red hair who is Peter Parker's love interest/close associate. Fact. MCU being a multiverse with infinite possibilities implying a reality where MJ is Black. When you have to use an argument like that, which is basically diverting and running away and dismissing the comics from which these characters originated from, you've already shown that you don't care for source material and don't respect the character. Imagine if someone said that and used that as an excuse to change a character that was originally Black in the comics and made them White. Don't divert and run away from the main point. Did I say a different version of MJ where she's Black couldn't exist? No. But if you're going to have a comic accurate looking and behaving main line Peter Parker which Tom Holland is, then give him a comic accurate looking and behaving Mary Jane Watson because she is his main love interest that he was destined to be with. Simple as that. The fact that was changed, for whatever reason but considering the political and social climate of today it doesn't take a genius to figure it out, it's extremely disrespectful to the people who created these characters, the people who supported the characters and creators and to the character itself. But no, we get this new character that's never existed before as. Spider-Man main love interest called Michelle Jones. No. That's just a huge middle finger. "I don't see a reason why changing her race in this scenario would matter, especially since her race is insignificant in most adaptions." Already debunked most of this with my previous points so not going to regurgitate but I will say this. You and a fair vocal proportion of people today wouldn't be saying that and wouldn't okay with Black comic book characters especially those that are love interests, major and connected to the main character in some way shape or form to be changed just because. Using the multiverse excuse especially wouldn't work in that scenario either and we all know how the reactions and responses would be. Double standards and ignorance on the character of Mary Jane Watson here. That's basically it. My arguments are unfair to you because you're offended by my honesty and me being bold enough to say things people are too afraid to say these days and not adhering to the stays quo. Well I'm not going to apologise, I'm defending these beloved characters and the creators who introduced them to us and believe they shouldn't be changed so drastically to the point they're different people. I would say the same if it was a Black, Asian, Hispanic character originally. I know somebody or you will think in your heads or act and resort to the typical easy name calling and just use buzzwords that the Internet commonly uses incorrectly but it's popular and catchy so that doesn't matter by saying I'm racist because I can't stand seeing a "Black MJ". Think or believe that but I have a deeper level understanding and interest of the character here and using surface level, impulsive and narrow minded insults like that to just make yourselves look self righteous and morally superior just fuels me to stand by what I said. Furthermore, if the races were reversed and MJ was Black from the beginning in the comics and they suddenly made her White in the MCU I'd still hold these thoughts and make this same argument. Fact. I think Stan Lee or somebody else said something about race changing characters and talking about Peter Parker specifically. If somebody was this race/color then they should stay that way. Absolutely no reason to change it, not to mention change them to a certain degree unless you're intentionally making them to be an alternate version. But Tom Holland's Peter Parker isn't meant to be an alternative Peter that is vastly different so why is that the case for his main love interest? Apparently Mary Jane Watson, not Michelle Jones is rumoured to exist in the MCU. Hopefully she is and I'll stand by that. If you want to make or include more diverse characters, that's fine. But don't change already existing ones that have been mainly depicted in a certain way. It's that simple. If you don't agree with me, cool. If you think I'm a racist, cool. I stand by what I said and what I said is backed up by the material and through logic and reason.
Mary Jane is traditionally a party girl that uses her outgoing nature to hide the pain of an abusive father. She lies to herself about wanting to live in the moment. She's a traditionally a very compassionate person as well because of her past. She hides in the spotlight. There's a lot of complexity in here and it makes a ton of sense why she'd be in love with a responsible, yet fun guy like Peter Parker despite dating a number of guys before him. He provides stability even when he can't be around. The Raimi movies, I don't want to do a comparison here, but that's the only other live action version, get the backstory right mixed with a more kind of corny girl next door thing for plot convenience. It's still a Mary Jane that gravitates towards the spotlight because her home life is sad. Peter is still there with stability. Even in the Insomniac game, there's hints that she enjoys the thrill of dangerous assignments. She's still passionate about what she does even if she isn't the party girl. This Michelle Jones is an incredibly dry, sarcastic introvert that goes to a school of geniuses. She said her father likes Peter, so obviously the abusive, absentee father isn't a factor her. She has no interest in being seen in general. She loves Peter after a few days of dating him... but why exactly beyond the plot requiring it? They're so dedicated to being an inverse of what previous movies did before, we don't even have a Mary Jane that likes swinging with Spider-man. It's just so pointless. They should have stuck to Michelle if they wanted something so wildly different. Just looking at some of the comments in this thread, posters bending over backwards to say this is a modern version of what Mary Jane represented in the 60s..... no. Just.... god, no. Party girls still exist. They didn't turn into antisocial weirdos because of smart phones. If anything there are more people than ever trying to be like comic Mary Jane on Instagram and tik tok than before. So in my point of view Mary Jane Watson is not Michelle Jones, they made her mj because it was Kevin fiage saw a fun homage to Peter's old love interest, also Michelle said she does not goes by the name of Watson so there are alot of times that they said Jones more then Watson I just hope they bring an og Mary Jane Watson for the MCU and the next Spider-Man troilgy
I am currently playing Marvel's Spider-Man for the first time on PC and I was just thinking about this topic oh my god. I kept thinking about how the MJ in the game is great and I like her a lot but I couldn't help but compare her to the other versions and how she doesn't quite feel right. Always kept coming back to Spectacular Spider-Man as I always do and thinking how there's probably never gonna be a better version. I am so fucking mad it got cancelled. :( Edit: Thanks for mentioning TASM2 MJ I love you!
@@jmgonzales7701 I honestly don't think so. This is too tame for MJ. She is normally an actress and/or model. She would look and behave more like Black Cat if she was truly accurate.
Gotta love how Spider-Man combined good girl Gwen with bad girl Black Cat into a single character. And any version of MJ that gets powers is always a plus, for some dumb reason for me. So I that's points for Water MJ, Ultimate MJ (furry goblin powers), and Symbiote Queen MJ.
"Gotta love how Spider-Man combined good girl Gwen with bad girl Black Cat into a single character" When was that? Also, Water MJ? And is Symbiote Queen MH from Ultimate Spider-Man?
Honestly this list just shows me how badly they've adapted the character half the time. 90s, MTV, spec, 10s are basically the only good adaptations, though that is just dismissing all the ones where she has baiscally no role to play like half the games.
Great video 👏 would love to see a deep dive on Gwen at some point! I always found it fascinating how the mythos of that character evolved since Emma Stone portrayed her in the TASM movies. I feel like Emma's portrayal was integral to the current Gwen adaptations.
Nothing personal to the actors, but I really can’t stand it when a large number games cast the same actor for similar-sounding/phoned-in performances like Laura Bailey or Troy Baker. Again it’s nothing personal, it’s just that I associate those two as the default male & female voices for Saints Row 3 and 4… and then hearing one of them as Mary Jane is just distracting as hell
Raimi mj is way better written than the mcu one. In the mcu she is barely peter's quirky supportive Girlfriend and most likely this is the Reason she is so well received(aside from people who hate the raceswap but those don't count as criticisms). I just wish zendaya could have gotten better material to work with since she is a decent actress.
Mary Jane as the Ultimate Spider-Woman, makes me so sad that Ultimate Spider-Man ended with 4 seasons. Something as big as that, with her wearing and using Carnage, should’ve lasted longer, same with Scarlet Spider.
I feel Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular are the only versions that truly understood MJ. She’s still the firecracker party girl but compassionate and decent. Making you think she’ll be self absorbed in the beginning but surprising you with her kindness. Every other version feels like trying too hard to “update” her. I get trying to do your own thing and that ain’t bad, but some times they only make her a prize and other times they make her…normal. And honestly, that makes her a boring character. We have other normal characters who can fill that void, why make MJ too much of a blank slate?
I agree with you. Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular Spider-Man are the best Spider-Man cartoons. What I like about them, that MJ is not only woman in Peter's life like in most of adaptations but Peter is between women like in comics. In TAS Peter was between MJ and Felicia who is in place of Gwen that did not appear because creators did not want feature character that was supposed to die and in Spectacular Peter was between Liz and Gwen. Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular Spider-Man perfectly complement each other in many ways. For example about villains, TAS gave us amazing Scorpion while in Spectacular he was not there, Spectacular gave us amazing Sandman while in TAS he was not there.
Wasnt a huge fan of PS4 MJ, mostly because she just felt like Lois Lane but lacking any real personality that makes Lois Lane interesting, so like DCEU Lois Lane. Plus I remember being super irked by her complaints about not needing to be saved when almost every side mission she went on ended with her needing to be saved.
man zendaya ruins every MCU scene she's in and i know it's not only her flat acting and lack of emotions it's the script that makes her sound like she's reading some idiot's tumblr she'd say any of this crap in real high school and she'd been outcasted
Disagreed about the Raimi MJ. I don't know where you got that she is mad Peter's not chasing her. She liked Peter, Peter said he didn't like her back. Just as she was moving on and had found a new BF, Peter suddenly starts showing interest in her and wants her to break it off with her new BF. That's what she's mad about in the film, how Peter seemed to toy with her. And saying MJ coming from an abusive home is unlike the comics makes no sense. The film did away with Aunt Anna, but MJ very much had an abusive childhood in the comics as well, as seen in TASM #259. Her personality is pretty much Gwen Stacy though yeah I agree about that.
I really love the MJ from 2017 Spider-Man. She just felt so fun and sweet. I also just love the 2017 Spider-Man. I think I’m the only one, but dang… it’s just my favorite out of all the Spider-Man shows.
Marvel's Spiderman version of MJ was something that randomly popped up in my recommended, but was instantly the version I liked the best. People always say MJ is the Spidermans true love but I never saw that and with this perspective that in fact she never was but instead was so flexible that she could was interesting.
I don't know the comics but PS4 version was my favorite because she is a character in of herself. She's more than support character but I feel like more support characters should be written like her. She is essential but often gets in deeper than she should. PS4 does such a good job of showing Peter being pulled multiple ways at once and MJ's story is a good way to see that from another perspective.
mcu mj is Michelle jones NOT mary jane her only association with mary jane character is having her initials and a race swap version of the character. it's not an adaption.
Gotta say I always like gwen more than mary jane. Mostly cause emma stone was great as qwen and her chemistry with Andrew as Peter parker was way better than toby and Kirsten. But mj in the comics seems more fun and I can see way peter and mj ended up together
None of the live action MJs did Justice to her character from the comics and don't get me started on the PS4 one😭. I did like Spectacular Spider-man and TAS's one. But she's the best character by far in the comics she's just the GOAT.
Spectacular Spider-Man still has the best MJ. She’s the one that feels the most like the comic character. Both from the introduction where both Spectacular and Comics present her that the perfect girl for Peter, and how they expand on her relationships with the rest of the cast and Gwen specifically. She has that energy that made her so charming and the sincerity that came from her later and more modern years.
94 Mary Jane is the same where feeling like the comic character is concerned and even when she had to be saved she was still more of a character you could like and was more sympathetic and likable than the Raimi version who only borrowed very little from this version.
Yeah imagine if Spectacular hadn’t got cancelled…god i’m sure MJ’s character would have evolved and developed SO well.
I also really like/appreciate that despite MJ being the definitive spiderman love interest she isn't introduced/treated as a love interest for the majority of the show. she is actually more there to help peter & the others with their relationship problems or personal issues. (the funniest moment for me was during the christmas episode peter was repeatedly being indecisive on whether he should be with gwen or liz but when they both blow him off, MJ comes to him and he starts thinking "wow, maybe MJ could be the one" but then she literally snaps him out of thought and goes "hey peter stop that, that's half your problem right there") her and peter come off as two people you could totally see dating later in life, just not at this current moment
@@christopherauzenne5023 94 MJ was also that way for the majority of that show even if Peter wasn’t as distracted between choosing MJ or Felicia she also reminded Peter when he did even though she was less confident and assertive it was not that much and she didn’t become the definite love interest until Felicia finally realized what Morbius became despite Peter trying to warn her earlier and she also was better than the Spectacular version at helping Peter and others where their personal or relationship issues are concerned one because we saw her face her abusive background and came off better for it afterward and we saw her being a helpful friend before she was a love interest while Spectacular showed this too it was always glimpses or in the background so in my opinion 94 Mary Jane was like this too and was better at it than Spectacular Mary Jane because we know more about her as well as it wasn’t ever in the background like it was in Spectacular I don’t think she was a definite love interest for Peter until the third or fifth season (while yeah a water clone but a more helpful supportive person for Peter and her friends and a more definite love interest than Spectacular).
@@christopherauzenne5023 same! I’m never a big fan of when they are the go-to relationship right off the bat . Especially in a Spider-Man show where he’s in high school. Let them both grow as people first
My favorite version of Mary Jane is the TAS. I specially like how the show goes step beyond other adaptations and actually explore Mary Jane past (including her relationship with her father and Hydro Man obsession with her), as well showing her being badass (she gets kidnapp but also has moments where she is able to handle her problem by outsmarting villains like Hydro man and Kingpin henchmen)
And that's why she's a better MJ than the Spectacular and especially the Raimi version which only borrowed very little from TAS Mary Jane with the abusive backstory and getting kidnapped by Spidey's villains but ignoring any of the growth and likability that made and still makes the 94 MJ the definite version of the character (Spectacular MJ may've been confident and assertive but that's all we got anything she did was always in the background or rushed even 2017 MJ was more fleshed out and yes I went there not sorry deal with it move on.)
Yeah, Mary Jane in TAS was awesome. A shame we never got an actual ending to that show.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Yeah but it was a more hopeful and optimistic ending compared to the downers we got in TNAS and Spectacular and while I like Spectacular MJ she was always a background character and her helping Gwen being noticed by Peter or dating Mark Allan could've been fleshed out more instead of brief glimpses that we got.
@@andrewadams4815 yeah, true. That was nice. TNAS was pretty good too. Loved that version of Electro.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Never said it wasn't good especially since that Electro is what TASM 2 tried and failed to duplicate same could be said of that version of Lizard where TASM's concerned.
It’s funny that MJ gets slapped with the Damsel In Distress label because in the comics she actually got rarely kidnapped and from her first encounter with Rhino mainly stayed out of danger.
7:50 wtf ????? that sht caught me off guard
My favourite MJ is easily the PS4 version. She actually contributes to the plot, and is a refreshing change from the “Damsel in distress” trope without making her be a totally overpowering “Girl power” character.
The problem is that she never was a damsel, that was a Gwen role in the cómics.
@@mayotango1317 Yes, but in this game, MJ is the love interest. Not Gwen. And the love interest, unfortunately, is often given the role of Damsel.
I fucking love how MJ in Spectacular just immediately mogs every girl the moment she enters the scene. I mean, God damn that voice... that voice does things to a man...
I despise ps4 mj, not only do they try to turn her into an obnoxious Lois lane, but she is an extremely toxic partner, she takes her own insecurities out on peter leading to her dumping him, but she then tries to make peter feel bad enough to apologise for doing nothing wrong, they had to make black cat even worse to make her look better by comparison, I would say to make her spinneret to get over her not wanting to be saved complex but this version doesn’t deserve it, spectacular reigns supreme
Second time u opened my eyes more bro. So inspiring. Subscribed!
Spider-man no way home
Michelle Jones: Do you have MJ in your universe?
Gigachad Tobey: Yeah and she is not a N*(movie cut to end credits follwed by Hey Ho Let's Go)
Ultimate mj was my fav because their chemistry with peter are so cute tbh and she is a badass and they were kissed each other when they were kids its sad they didin't show us they kissed again but they show us they were dating on season 4 before she became a spider woman
My favorite mj iterations are the ps4 one and Michele Jones.
Mj Ps4: I've never been a big fan of superman. I didn't read the comics, and the superman live-adaptation in the dceu Is just boring. So the lois lane complaint i cant relate too. Even tho I didn't like her missions in the ps4 game, I liked her alot. Tbh anything is better than the rami mj. And their relationship was very cute
Michelle Jones: Her and Peters was so adorable. U could tell Tom and Zendaya are fucking outside of the movies. She was fine in homecoming but in far from home and no way home she really shined . She was different than the other mj adaptations and it was refreshing.
It's worth pointing out that the idea for MJ to have had an abusive father isn't something that the Sam Raimi films came up with; it was borrowed from the 80s Spider-Man comics (starting with Amazing Spider-Man #259 iirc). So in a way, it *was* faithful to the source material, just not specifically the Stan Lee era.
Seems like a bad research job.
@@godmagnus Not research, just an unhealthy obsession lol
I have that issue on my wall. The return of the original and Hobgoblin is back!
@@EnvyOmicron he was probably referring to the author of the video who didnt research enough
I thought it originated in the Spider-Man animated series
In the comics, Mary Jane did come from an abusive home. In later comics, they expanded on her past by saying her Dad was abusive, and her whole party girl act was an escape
This is true
Marvel spider-man animated series season 5 episode 13 Farewell Spiderman Madame Web took the Spider-man to the pink wormhole limbo to finds the real Mary Jane Watson at end of the episode show in January 31,1998.
What if the Spiderman found the Mary Jane Watson in the pink wormhole limbo in the pictures again from Peter Parker of the Spider-man in July 21,2012. Spider-man unmasked to the real Mary Jane Watson again in the pink wormhole limbo again. Then the Peter and Mary Jane were happy to see each other again.
Marvel spider-man animated series revival changeorg Disney plus signatures 9,757 next goal 10,000. Hope the Marvel spider-man animated series season 6 to continue in the Disney plus again in 2024.
I think Mary Jane from spectacular Spider-Man is my favorite adaptation besides the comics
Same
Spectacular MJ is a Homie .
The best
Yeah if we saw more of her after her debut she’s just a background character and yeah it’s faithful doesn’t mean it works I prefer Mary Jane from spider-man 94 she’s combination of Gwen and MJ from the comics and that’s okay.
YES! Only adaptation that feels perfect.
We have
-Party Girl
-Sassy teen
-Some girl
-Lois Lane
Party Girl
2:03
Interesting commentary on MJ vs Gwen in the Raimi trilogy. What’s funny also is that Kristen Dunst naturally has blonde hair and dyed it red for the role, and Bryce Dallas Howard naturally has red hair and dyed it blonde…
Oh my gawd 😂😂
Not to mention the original versions of MJ and Gwen have green and blue eyes respectfully yet Kristen Dunst has blue eyes while Bryce Dallas Howard has hers green.
And I just happened to see The Amazing Spider-Man on TV and saw that Emma Stone also has green eyes. JAJAJA, what a coincidence.
@@tomasgomeziglesias6769 "she was my mj"
Setting aside my praise for Spectacular's MJ, I liked that 2017 made her a student athlete as a contrast to Peter's nerd. Too bad she was introduced very late in the series (aside from her cameo as the school's mascot) so her and Peter becoming a couple felt very rushed.
yeah I remember how disappointed I was because it was kind of a neat idea and it was like the first time a Spider-Man cartoon made them an official couple since the MTV series but they barely did anything with her, which is especially weird because there was a lot of marketing around it
A lot of things in Spider-Man 2017 were very rushed or forced it doesn't outweigh the good and introducing MJ no matter how rushed still worked especially where being with Peter was concerned so I'm okay with it.
Agreed, I wish we had gotten more screentime of her and not just hit with her like we know everything about this version of her
@@andrewadams4815 ^
@@kodieparx We weren't hit with her we did get to know her regardless of how brief it was there's a reason why Spider-Man 2017 is seen as an improvement over Ultimate Spider-Man even though UA-cam refuses to believe it it doesn't talk down to anyone and Peter is annoying in the first few episodes that's all he is not grating or childish like in Ultimate and Robbie Daymond is seen as an improvement over Drake Bell for that reason alone that and the team ups actually help Spidey become a better hero and not a butt monkey like in Ultimate even in the worst episodes it's still better than Ultimate.
Sometimes I miss the extroverted model Mary Jane, I feel most incarnations of Mary Jane now borrow from the ultimate comics where Mary Jane was like Peter
It does kind of feel like they've tried to downplay it for like the last decade or so
I like her 616 counterpart
I find that version way more interesting the only 616 I like is the jms one.
I agree
I hate that they literally just turn her into Lois Lane
Spectacular is my favorite. Because of the slow burn and the fact she’s not immediately his love interest but there’s clearly something there. Like Greg Weisman said, we know those two are destined, but the goal was to make us love Gwen first just like Peter, so she had a presence in the world BUT wasn’t just there for him.
yeah, same, I really like how she isn't even really a love interest the first two seasons but more the friend who tries to help peter (and others) through their relationship troubles. she really comes off as someone you could see peter ending up with later in life, just not right now
@@christopherauzenne5023 yeah except 94 MJ was like that too the friend who to tries help Peter and others through their relationship troubles. If anything her abusive backstory actually makes her as someone you could see peter ending up later in life just not right now in fact she didn't become a definite love interest until the fourth or fifth season (a water clone or not)
Yeah but it's not like 94 didn't have a slow burn either she wasn't so much an immediate love interest than a blind date and it was actually Morbius that made them destined for each other. If Morbius hadn't taken Peter's blood sample they wouldn't have realized how similar they were and like Gwen the goal was to make us love Felicia first just like Peter so she had a presence in the world BUT wasn't just there for him either like I keep saying anything spectacular did 94 already did and in a lot of cases better.
@@andrewadams4815 You just sound angry because most people rank Spectacular above 94
@@WebbedManiac No I just sound angry because people want to think Spectacular outdoes 94 it doesn’t anything Spectacular did 94 did already not saying it’s not good but it doesn’t outdo 94 or the Raimi trilogy and I can’t be the only one who believes that.
"Mary-Jane is the most powerful anchor that grounds Peter Parker's world" I liked that conclusion, _Spider-man_ has been adapted a lot of times over the decades, and even through some aspect of Peter Parker change in every adaptation, at it's core he's the same dorky young lad, so you need his love interest to be this modern girl (or woman, if your Peter is young asult), a bridge guiding how his unchanging core adapts to the ever-changing moment.
I like that. Peter is the sun, and Mary Jane is the lens.
Well except it's not true.
Why would it be true if you adapt him to the modern world.
Mary Jane isn't Mary Jane if she's changed. It's just whatever girl. And I'm not saying that's wrong. But I am pointing that that isn't Mary Jane specifically.
It's just a love interest. It's like saying miles morales needs Mary Jane. He doesn't. Pete didn't have Mary Jane before. Like two decades with her being a cast.
Sometimes just because something sounds pretty, doesn't make it true. I get maybe you got a powerful reaffirming feeling. But I didn't because I know how much Pete existed without her. And it's fine. It works fine.
Michelle Jones isn't Mary Jane. She's a generic 80,90s, and apparently z quirky girl and she works fine too.
It's just name recognition.
No, that has always been Aunt May.
They even make a deal with Mephisto, because even with all he’d done for good, and how long Peter and Mary Jane were kept apart, they still make his 70+ year old Aunt, more important. It’s a terrible comic, and the most hated by fans(usually), as well, but there is truth in it.
If it just been Peter making the decision, he would’ve done the same thing. He’s always chosen May.
@@DSan-kl2yc
I agree.
I like those movies, but as Spider-Man stories, they are terrible. It’s like the worst alt universe version of Peter, and everyone else.
Flash, Ned, no Harry… No Mary Jane Watson, Betty Brandt, Gwen, etc.
No mention of Ben or his parents.
And Holland is fun, but he’s just not playing Peter Parker. It’s the writing, and I accept that he’s Spider-Man, but I think they missed an opportunity to make a really good Iron Lad/Iron Man replacement, story.
Could’ve even connected him to Kang, etc.
@@CorbCorbin And the fact that OMD is so unpopular yet the ending of Insomniac's Spiderman is widely well received tells me that after a while Mary Jane is meant to replace Aunt May in that role as Peter grows up.
I always saw MJ as part of a trinity of sorts. Gwen is represents Peter’s intellectual equal, a woman who can understand Peter’s mind. Felicia represents his power side and the genuial freedom being Spiderman brings. But she also shows the dark side of being Spiderman, she makes Peter forget his responsibility and duty, showing that the dangers of power. But MJ she is normality. She’s down to earth, has normal problems and isn’t super powered (at least originally). Many times, Peter is wishes to be normal, to have a normal life and maybe hang up the suit. That’s why she always slips away in the original comics, because with Peter’s life that is unattainable.
🎯
And then there's Chat who's the perfect girlfriend for Spiderman. His best friend and girlfriend. Accepting him both as Peter and Spiderman. With no unnecessary drama or ridiculous twists. Just a wholesome happy relationship.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Justice for Chat.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpChat is just MJ with another name.
Sorry but Gwen is not a smart character, she is just a prom queen.
I think my issue with the different adaptations of MJ is that there are so many. With someone like Lois Lane we all know how she's supposed to be and who she is. With MJ there's a lot less consistency.
Same, I don't actually like how flexible her adaptations have been over the years some more than others but compared to Louis it's just odd.
Especially the reporter thing it's very Lois Lane or Iris West and that's just not who she was, if anyone would become a reporter it'd be Peter, getting a possible promotion that would fall through due to other commitments or just not take it.
We need more adaptations like Gwen & MJ from TASM/Spectacular, it's faithful but updated, and not just with Spider-Man characters ALL of Marvel going forward with that approach to adaptation would please just about everyone.
@@draykohunter6805
The reporter thing came from Ultimate comics as most adaptation s either base her off that or a mix of that and 616
@@mikemorro140 thanks for the info
@@draykohunter6805Gwen from TASM is just a MJ blonde.
I do understand where you're coming from with Raimi's version of MJ, but a lot of the creative choices for her are from later runs, such as her abusive home life. I think the direction Spider-Man 3 took with her could've been salvaged if they delved into how her history of abuse effected her reactions to bad reviews for her stage plays, instead of it just being seen a couple of times in the previous movies. I don't think Raimi MJ is terrible (at least not until Spidey 3), but I do get your trepidation for her since she didn't display the countercultural attitude she displayed in her debut in the main comics.
She's pretty terrible in the entire trilogy
although to be fair to raimi. it was ari arad that really made "spider-man 3" into the mess that it is and made mary jane a whiny victim of sorts.
Facts
@@ninjanibba4259 worst is fake MJ though 💀
@@ventusvanitas7544 she doesn't go from guy to guy and whine about things that don't go her way, so no, she's pretty awesome
I remember hearing a theory that Mary Jane in Miles's universe was going to shoot Kingpin in Spider-Verse. People were wondering what she was doing in that party and what with Mary Jane most likely knowing who Kingpin was (since her husband was REALLY REALLY open), it would make sense for her to make an assassination attempt. Hopefully we get confirmation about that because if so, that'd add even more weight to Kingpin being arrested.
Okay, that would be badass. I am sad we never find out what happened to her or R.I.Peter's old Spider Lair.
That actually sounds like a really cool idea.
I love how the video game MJ montage ranges from
“Save me Spider-Man” to “I have a f*ing gun”
It's always been hilarious to me that Spectacular had the best MJ but it was also the only time she wasn't the main love interest, another reason why it sucks we never got more seasons since we didn't get to see that happen
I think that Weisman understands that part of love of Spider-Man is that it’s a soap opera
6:00 Actually, Weisman and the other showrunners have said that, despite wanting to end the series with Peter and Mary Jane getting married, they would not kill Gwen Stacy, meaning that she and Peter would probably just break up and Peter would eventually develop a relationship with Mary Jane, with Gwen coming to accept his decision.
Or probably being unable to deal with Peter's secret life when she found out and who knows how long she and MJ would remain friends if they had MJ know the night Uncle Ben was shot they'd be friends but who knows for how longs.
The problem with that is Gwen's the only character in the show that they refused to give any word on what would have happened with had it continued.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 Probably they would give her an arc similar to Betty Brant in the Steve Ditko run, with her losing her father and Peter realizing he can't be with Gwen anymore, knowing she wouldn't be able to live with man who always puts his life at risk.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 The problem with that statement is they actually have Gwen and Harry would’ve fell apart pretty quickly once she realized the monster he was becoming so she would’ve gone back to Peter to truly start a relationship and MJ she would be struggling with her feelings for Peter having broken up with Mark as well as getting to know everyone else except Peter which is more likely cause she knows he’s Spider-Man why else would she let him ditch her at the dance and she might have been uneasy with Gwen and Peter being together despite her part in helping them with that she might have gotten jealous this time MJ did get like that whenever Peter was around another girl in the comics or other media despite what she said to Peter she had feelings for him but was too stubborn to act on them maybe helping Gwen getting noticed was another way of her hiding it it’s not unrealistic and has happened in real life with girls who say they like someone as a friend or brother and is too stubborn to admit or act on those feelings so she might’ve caused problems for Peter and Gwen if MJ and Gwen being friends in college is true and she’d wouldn’t be in the background but a character flaws and all someone Peter and eventually Gwen could relate to more than they thought yeah off track but Weisman has talked about his plans with Gwen if Spectacular continued.
no, I'm pretty sure that Weisman hinted that Gwen would die in a college set DTV.
model MJ > journalist MJ
W comments.
MJ is the best Marvel Female character. She is the best friend, girlfriend and Wife. Alternate version also showed how she is great mother.
Current writer Zeb wells literally trying to ruining her and other characters mainly Peter without reading past comics.
Latest chapter or issues he really said norman osborn his father figure. Lol the guy who sold his own son soul for fortune.
I wish Spectacular Spider-Man kept going until it's natural ending
Shailene Woodley would have been awesome as Mary Jane. And she's likely not being hyperbolic with how she describes the script. After The Descendants put her on the map, she was very selective about the type of roles she picked (she famously turned down Carrie, Tomorrowland and Fifty Shades of Grey).
Raimi MJ = Horrible Mj, Good Gwen stacy
Raimi Gwen Stacy= Good MJ not even Gwen Stacy
MCU MJ ? = Bad MJ and not even Mary Jane. She is her own character and she is good in No way Home.
TASM Gwen = The Best MJ
I did not like Mary Jane in the PS4 game. It was so beyond mind boggling to me that they created the ultimate version of Spiderman that draws from all aspects and interpretations of the character to give you, the consumer the ultimate Spider-Man fantasy and they chose to make Spider-Man's girlfriend Lois Lane.
This
Funny enough there is a comic called superman girl friend lois lane
It was bad enough that they made her into a generic journalist character (a Lois Lane knock-off, like you said), but their decision to make you play as her, and have her boring stealth segments slow down an already bloated and sluggish game, seemed like a decision almost intended to make you dislike her.
@@peacemaster8117 Agreed. The stealth sections I did not mind during my first playthrough, I did not really enjoy them but as a breezed through them so quick I barely remembered they were in there. On a subsequent playthrough however it was so frustrating as I wanted to get them over with so bad I would end up failing them like 2 or 3 times ironically just trying to rush through them. This really made me dislike them, as there is nothing fun or even. Challenging about them, wish they were skippable
Personally for me that was the second best interpretation of MJ other than Spectacular Spider-Man one. Louis Lane is honestly a damsel and a single dimensional reporter. PS4 MJ was a journalist who dives deeper and finds clues and completes Peter's inability to squeeze everywhere to get information. She was also one of the reasons Peter stopped being overprotective and was supportive of Miles going alone.
I really don't get why so many writers write MJ like some generic destined love interest. If Peter's character arc is a boy learning to be an adult by accepting the burden of responsibility then Mary Jane's arc is a girl who has to stop treating life as a 1 women joy ride and learn to accept how she actually feels about the people around her. That's why Gwen's death is an important part in both characters lives, Peter lost everything again and was so close to crossing the line by killing Goblin and shutting himself off from everyone else. Meanwhile the carefree Mary Jane suddenly learns that her friend, alive and well all of yesterday, is now dead. Not much later her old ex Harry goes crazy, she herself nearly died, and no matter what she tells herself she can't deny that she does care about Peter. That is so much more interesting than anything any of these adaptations come up with.
To be fair not all of them are showing the beginning of their relationship, and to be fair the generic childhood friend to love interest plot is what they do in Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate Spider-man, but also to be fair that particular characterization was boring in the ultimate comics too.
I really feels it says something that the best MJ adaptation outside of Spectacular Spider-man is somehow Zendaya's version, a character who isn't even name Mary Jane. Like the only way they could write an interesting character was to divorce themselves from what audiences have come to expect from the character. To most people, Mary Jane is nothing more than the girl Spider-man dates, and that's kinda sad.
There's a video I remember watching about the moment where Peter is going through a rough time I think after Gwen's death and he said something to her where she's about to walk out of the door and she stops on a blank panel and then turns around and closes the door to stay with Peter despite what he said to her I can't remember for the life of me what video it was but what you said reminded me of it.
It’s because the generic love interest is how they’re used to writing love interests so they don’t think about the character outside of that set box
"Like the only way they could write an interesting character was to divorce themselves from what audiences have come to expect from the character"
Is that a good thing or.....?
@@draykohunter6805 This scene you describe is actually the final part of "The Death of Gwen Stacy". This happened right after Peters "last" encounter" with the Green Goblin.
Honestly if I were to make a modern MJ she’d be an influencer. I feel like that’s the modern culture popular people job and still allows her to kinda jump around what with what she’s doing at the time. Want to be an actress makes UA-cam videos, wants to be a model, IG, activist, Twitter journalist it’s a broad umbrella that you can fit all these takes into one
Actually that's not a bad idea if someone made it work properly.
Maybe one day we’ll see MJ be adapted like that
I don't think so...rebelling against a system or circumstances designed to keep her down is maybe the one part of her character which needs to be adapted. There is nothing more mainstream than an influencer nowadays.
@@swanpride MCU MJ is more mainstream than being an influencer. Being an influencer is more MJ's style.
After reading "My dress up darling" I came to the conslusion that the main female character, Kitagawa Marin, was alot like OG Mary-Jane, with a less tragic back story.
Maybe they just need to make M-J an american gyaru, in spirit at least.
So I think your too focused on her "original" depiction, even though in the comics MJ has gone waay beyond that and had plenty of time to develop and become her own person though one who is tied to Pete. And with her being the perfect girl for Peter...I mean yeah the reason shes his main love intrest in everything is that they literally were married, and whenever theres a what if story and Peter had kids in it theres a 90% chance their redheads
For the LOVE OF GOD would they ADAPT THIS WOMAN PROPERLY. She's literally one of the BEST FEMALE CHARACTERS EVER WRITTEN😭. She's been a Model, Actress and a Fashion Designer and even a HERO in the comics. She was NEVER a damsel in the distress...she was a BADASS
They already did in TAS, TNAS and Spetacular Spiderman
Yeah that was Gwen’s job
I actually like how they did in in The MCU Trilogy, she wasn’t a damsel in distress accept for 1 exception but Andrew saved her and redeemed himself so I’ll allow it.
Gwen Stacy she is the original the original girl to Spider Man don't blame them man you know going she is original.
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 she was a singular character trope in TNAS. She didnt know WHAT she wanted😭
If we are considering Michelle Jones she doesn't even have to have the name Mary Jane. They flexed Mary jane so hard she became unidentifiable apart from the acronym "MJ"
They pretty much made an OC
That Michelle Jones doesn't even have an actual character or personality, she shouldn't be considered as a Mary Jane adaptation
Now we have the recent comics by Zebb that are ruining her character in every conceivable way possible.
USM Mj is my favorite she’s probably the most unique take on MJ
SM17 MJ is just adorable
In terms of animated portrayals
Zendaya has my heart for live action
Kirsten’s version is nostalgic but not my favorite one
I like her but zendaya is my fav
I like how Zendaya's MJ *isn't* a textbook perfect match for Peter, but that she's kind of quirky and weird. They're both outsiders, and can connect on that level, even if it loses the idea of MJ representing the "normal" life that Peter can't have. She represents a life that actually could have been, which imo makes it even worse when Peter has to leave her.
(Eh, who am I kidding. They'll probably undo the mind-wipe in the next movie. After all, they already teased Ned becoming Hobgoblin. Heaven forbid we have a tragic plot twist in comic book movies which isn't immediately undone...)
Yep
Sm 17?
The crazy part about MCU MJ is even if she is technically a different character, my parents immediately knew who she was and what role she'd play without knowing shit about Spider-Man because everyone knows who MJ is. I don't think ordinary people recognize Gwen Stacy like that. The only other supporting characters in Spider-Man or even Marvel as a whole with that level of recognition are Uncle Ben and Aunt May.
This says nothing about Mcu MJ as a character💀 ur literally just saying ppl know who “MJ” is bc of the previous versions lol
@@Jhazzmiin yeah, they are just recognising the MJ name, mcu "MJ" is nothing like the actual character
You are underestimating how recognised Gwen Stacy is as a Spiderman character, especially with Spectacular Spider-Man and especially TASM(and general audiences much preferred Gwen over Raimi MJ)
@@prufan Here's the thing 94 Spider-Man's final episode is when Gwen started being recognized in it's final episode yeah it'a an alternate earth and a very different Peter but it's the same Gwen fans knew from the comics so that was the beginning of Gwen known outside of the comics the only reason she didn't appear before then is due her premature death in the 70s but the Gwen from 94 is the same intelligent love interest as the Spectacular and TASM versions in my opinion that's when Gwen become well known outside the comics.
@@prufan You could say the same about Ultimate Gwen Stacy who's nothing like the actual character either if anything character wise mcu MJ and Ultimate Gwen are the same.
I will love an MJ that is as Party Girl and social sabby. Like: Let use beauty and arts to influence the world kind of girl. In the amazing mary jane comics we see the hustlr of her making a movie when everything falls apart. So she is not the troupe of young journo but keeps her artistic show woman aspect that seems to be forgotten. Almost every woman in comics adaptations today or are fighters, cynics or scientist while the men are... Fighters, cynics and scientist, having MJs arts background will be a breath of fresh air in a more millitaristic technocratic lansdcape of heroes and heroines in media. It also shows the hustle of the artist, Raimi Trilogy showed it well lefting MJ again as an artist that will have to fight for being in the A game for another time.
Or make her an american equivalent of a gyaruu.
A sociable fashionista that got along whit everybody.
The Amazing Mary Jane comics are some of the best comics I've read. I don't mean to say they are a masterpiece or anything, just that they represent Mary Jane very well. She's just trying to make a movie while dealing with everything falling apart around her, but her determination and upbeat personality keep her (and Mysterio) going.
The no way home one was the worst..... She's not a theater kid, not a redhead, not intresting....
It's Zendaya just playing herself
Facts she's basically a lamer version of Gwen stacy
Agreed
It’s called alternate interpretation
She’s not Mary Jane
@@madnessarcade7447 yea, sure
"Michell jones"
Very original
Well zendaya was still more likable than Kirsten dunst also no way home was a great movie way better than spider man 3 lol
Couple years ago I read the Mary Jane novel. Yes, there's actually a book based on her. It seems to take a lot of inspiration from the Raimi MJ. It was a decent read. If anyone still reads, consider getting it.
I will never accept "Michelle Jones" as Mary Jane Watson, she is her own character
now that we know there's a multiverse, it's obvious she's not the same as the others.
I understand your point but I can see where they took inspiration as being the MCU "Mary Jane"
Next incarnation of MJ should introduce Spider-Man to the wonderful world of polyamory.
PS4 Mary Jane was just Lois lane, she looks like her and even has the same job
and NO, MJ can't "be anything", otherwise you lose what makes her Mary Jane as a character.
you can't just take identifiable and iconic elements away, she's supposed to be an actress/model
yeah mary jane kinda represents the ideal love interest in the superhero genre. her position is very versatile and can fit into whatever point in time peter is at, I think it helps due to how spider-man is one of the few superheroes that kinda actually developed and grew before comics got into the status quo. most other love interests have a fixed point while MJ was there for when peter was still in school and into his adult life.
Mcu MJ gotta be the worst tbh.
I still really dislike the Homecoming Trilogy MJ. I get it, they don't want the characters to be similar to all the previous adaptions or the comics... But for some reason they decided "let's make her nothing like the comics or the character that she actually is! Let's not even make her a red head, give her a different name, and a completely different personality!" Basically, she's not MJ at all, and the fact that they keep throwing hints to say that she's Mary Jane is dumb. The love story is really bad... In one movie she's way too quirky, and Peter seems almost to think she's weird... Then in FFH somehow he instantly has a crush on her? Just doesn't work for me. Spectacular Spider-Man will remain the best TV show or movie adaptation of MJ
1:41 yeah, no one talked about how she almost got married at 19. She couldn't even legally get liquor yet.
You know for the longest time I didn't like that she left the guy at the altar. I still don't but she was 19! Who thought that was a good idea!?
being honest I'm pretty sure Raimi just wasn't thinking about their ages, I mean they're all around college age but that's about it
@@mikemorro140 True but still, no one in college should get married. The stress from mid terms alone can wreck a marriage.
Zendaya's Woke Michelle Jones is the worst one I've ever seen.
I loved Mary Jane from Spider-man the animated series. Wish we could have gotten a finale to that show where Spidey finds Mary Jane.
feels like he just purposefully ignored another thing than just the hair change in tom holland's version... race swapping
just very amusing
i would say the character isn't malleable but rather everyone keeps changing her out of some weird fear to use the most obvious version, and that is tiring cause they always get it wrong, spectacular is the closest which makes sense
I think we can all agree MSM2017's MJ was one of the sweetest and understanding towards Peter
Indeed; the actress clearly had a blast voicing her.
And she looks so cute in that version
what's the name of the song that plays in the credits and q&a?
Have you found out yet ?
I wonder why they are so hesitant in making her a model or an actress in more modern media. I wonder if the creators are just sexist and see modelling as a "stereotypical" job for her, and that they shouldn't make her too "girly".
it does seem sexist when you really think about it, she's not even allowed to be an actress either.
it's really disappointing to see what modern creators have done with MJ
@@prufan the irony is that chances are they don't want to make her a model or actress out of fear of being called sexist. That's why she's being handed jobs like reporter. To some making her a model pushes gender stereotypes. Personally I think that's a silly excuse, but that's how it goes. You have one side who will say it's sexist if she's a model and another side that says it's sexist if she isn't. There is no real winning solution when getting tugged from all sides.
So what I'm hearing here is Spectacular Spider-man is still the best version of Spider-man in every way.
Peter and MJ’s relationship in the Raimi movies is an accurate depiction of two young adults in NY who are inlove with eachother but are struggling with their own personal lives and identities, they want to be with eachother but their life problems just keeps them apart, I personally liked this dynamic because it’s definitely more relatable and i think people go way too hard on MJ in these movies, they talk about her like shes the villain or something
I agree. It honestly just reeks of sexism. Especially since everyone seems to excuse peter, harry, flash and all these other male characters yet give her shit relentlessly and the only women in the movies that get praised are the agreeable goody two shoes characters like ursula and betty brant
@@ricardohernandez8683 Absolutely. It's only due to sexism that 90% of the Raimi "fans" believe women should always serve men.
I like zendaya, but I dont feel like she was being MJ, I feel like she was just being zendaya, which definitely makes money, but she was really just Mary Jane in name only
like how Peter Parker was meant to appeal to young men that were social outcasts, and because of the reputation of Spiderman they knew they would have that demographic anyway, they decided to make Mary Jane a social outcast too, I see in shows like Clone High season 2 that they say now kids are more socially conscious and a lot of rules dont apply like they use to, but I feel like for the past 30 years they have been saying stuff like that, so how can things be changing if they have to say the same message over and over again, Things have gotten more political, but the idea some one would be cool for social activism? I mean there are definitely crowds who like that, but its hard to convince me that kids are more politically active outside of knowing the right buzzwords or news events to mention at the right time , it just seems like it appeals to college bound nerdy girls who are social outcasts, like how Peter was for boys.
cause its not like Zendaya doesn't have the charisma to be this cool socially graceful party girl who the party follows and ends when she leaves the room. and honestly, if they kept that, with the activism (because you have to be a social butterfly to know what protests are happening) it would have been a better movie
I just think a lot of producers, insecure about being the nerd instead of the jock, want to imagine their audience as nerds that hate their lives, and wish they were the cool business men like them, they push these stories want reaffirm that opinion by getting them to buy this product, but its the only Spiderman we got, so circular reasoning
honestly , besides Far From Home, I dont really see this trilogy being well remembered
maybe making Peter a guy down on his luck would give them more plot ideas, its a shame everything has to tie back to the MCU, and not give Spidrman any grounded stories, which was always his appeal. but I doubt they will make Spiderman have more catholic guilt, which I argue is his defining trait, and his pensive web swings done the streets of New York , which as as iconic as his quipping
Spider-Man TAS Mary Jane is still my favorite version of the character
Probably mine too
@@sodium285 she was the IT girl.
I don't think I have a favorite adaptation of Mary Jane (yet)
The animated versions are ok, Spectacular stands out between the other ones but I feel like I needed to see more of her to fully love her, it threw me off a little that she was a journalist in USM, i don't understand why on current adaptations they're so averse to make her an actress
I have mixed feelings about the Raimi version, i liked that there's a few elements of her character that come from the comics, but god she really tainted the view people had on MJ from then on
The mcu version is just not Mary Jane Watson for me because for starters she isn't, one thing that i always will love about MJ is that despite her 'just being a love interest' she feels like she's her own person and with that you can see why she's a good match for Peter, and not just because is the rule, but we barely know anything about mcu MJ, I have seen fans built her character better with a few headcanons than whatever the writers of these movies did, and the movies don't really show us why she and Peter are good for each other, they did not really built their relationship but we just accept it because that's what's supposed to be
PS4 MJ is not as bad as people make her to be, i didn't like her characterization but at least it felt like she was the heart of Peter's life, something that I really miss from all of spider-man media lately
But idk, i'm just a big fan of the character so i think i'm very hard to please on that regard
I think you said everything I felt about every version of MJ to a lesser or greater extent for some, like I love spectacular MJ a lot more, and dislike PS4 MJ as about as much as you but with a little bit more apathy.
To my knowledge I can't recall any on-screen version of her be adapted as a model yet and I feel that's a shame or at least a fashion designer, at least Rami had her setup as a failed Broadway actress from the beginning despite the execution.
Spectacular Spider-Man is the best incarnation, Raimiverse just bounced from Peter to Harry,and was always a damsel in distress
Other than the comics, Spectacular Spider-Man's MJ is still the best MJ so far. Kirsten Dunst's MJ when taking away the negatives and when you actually look at her on a deeper level is still up there and higher than you'd think. Blame Sony and Avi Arad for ruining her and for cutting out the deleted scenes where she shows a lot of depth.
Her abusive family home life actually was accurate to the comics too. Her screaming in life or death situations also isn't a problem either but everything else negative about her I agree with like how she cheated/flirted around.
PS4/Insomniac MJ is a woke Lois Lane rip off. She made a woke comment about strong women talking about that's why Hammerhead dislikes Silver Sable in the dlc which leads to Peter saying "uh okay" and can't communicate and is immature towards Peter in general.
MCU "MJ" isn't Mary Jane, it's a tokenised Black washed character. She's only popular because it's Zendaya who has a irl relationship with Tom Holland where the chemistry shows in the acting that fan girls obsess over which is why she's loved. Not because the character she plays has depth or is written well.
To summarise, Comics MJ, Spectacular MJ are the best and Raimi's MJs is over hated and I'd argue is better than a lot of other adaptions of her. The worst ones/lowest are MCU and Insomniacs.
Dang
I would like to point out that Zendaya and Tom Holland weren’t a couple when the first movie came out, or at least, nobody knew it. There were plenty of theories, but no one knew anything really. So I disagree with the point that her relationship with Holland is the thing that makes her character popular, but rather she is a major celebrity in her own right (predating Holland), which contributed to the character’s popularity.
On the topic of “black washing”, MJ has been made and remade plenty of times before. On top of that, the MCU is a multiverse with, apparently, infinite possibilities, thus implying that there are likely many realities where MJ is black. I don’t see a reason why changing her race in this scenario would matter, especially since her race is insignificant in most adaptations.
Whether MCU MJ is well written or not is a subjective matter and I myself am undecided on the subject, but I find some of your arguments to be a little unfair.
@@marisolhoffmann6447 But those theories about them being a couple before it was confirmed turned out to be true at the end of the day. Fact. People were shipping Tom and Zendaya and their chemistry and moments together on screen, behind the scenes, interviews were being admired by fan girls who even before the rumours were confirmed to be true. Fact. All this has a significant impact on the way her "MJ" is perceived instead of being based on how her character is actually written and portrayed.
Don't know why you're bringing up Zendaya being a major celebrity even before she got involved with Holland as if I was dismissing her, undermining or attacking her personally or her acting ability in that sense. My point was talking about her specifically being "MJ" and her chemistry/relationship with Tom Holland which has a significant impact on how people view her as "MJ".
Also, funny you mention she's a major celebrity in her own right because all you did there was add to my argument. In terms of the casting choice for MCU MJ and the fact that they got somebody that was extremely popular to cast a race swapped MJ instead of somebody that actually looks the part, fits the part of a comic book character and acts the part speaks volumes. The only thing Zendaya "MJ" does right is her "romantic support" for him but you could literally get any other girl for Peter to do that. She lacks the layers and qualities other adaptions of MJs have which stay faithful to the source material.
On the topic of black washing, your double standards are clear and I can already tell this conversation won't work because we both have our minds made up but I'll say my piece. Firstly, MJ being made and remade several times, show me another Mary Jane Watson that isn't a redhead but is Peter Parker's love interest. Apart from Zendaya, there doesn't seem to be another. So your point is already null and void there. Until Zendaya, almost every if not all adaptions of MJ and her original version is a caucasian girl with red hair who is Peter Parker's love interest/close associate. Fact.
MCU being a multiverse with infinite possibilities implying a reality where MJ is Black. When you have to use an argument like that, which is basically diverting and running away and dismissing the comics from which these characters originated from, you've already shown that you don't care for source material and don't respect the character. Imagine if someone said that and used that as an excuse to change a character that was originally Black in the comics and made them White.
Don't divert and run away from the main point. Did I say a different version of MJ where she's Black couldn't exist? No. But if you're going to have a comic accurate looking and behaving main line Peter Parker which Tom Holland is, then give him a comic accurate looking and behaving Mary Jane Watson because she is his main love interest that he was destined to be with. Simple as that. The fact that was changed, for whatever reason but considering the political and social climate of today it doesn't take a genius to figure it out, it's extremely disrespectful to the people who created these characters, the people who supported the characters and creators and to the character itself.
But no, we get this new character that's never existed before as. Spider-Man main love interest called Michelle Jones. No. That's just a huge middle finger.
"I don't see a reason why changing her race in this scenario would matter, especially since her race is insignificant in most adaptions." Already debunked most of this with my previous points so not going to regurgitate but I will say this. You and a fair vocal proportion of people today wouldn't be saying that and wouldn't okay with Black comic book characters especially those that are love interests, major and connected to the main character in some way shape or form to be changed just because. Using the multiverse excuse especially wouldn't work in that scenario either and we all know how the reactions and responses would be.
Double standards and ignorance on the character of Mary Jane Watson here. That's basically it. My arguments are unfair to you because you're offended by my honesty and me being bold enough to say things people are too afraid to say these days and not adhering to the stays quo. Well I'm not going to apologise, I'm defending these beloved characters and the creators who introduced them to us and believe they shouldn't be changed so drastically to the point they're different people. I would say the same if it was a Black, Asian, Hispanic character originally.
I know somebody or you will think in your heads or act and resort to the typical easy name calling and just use buzzwords that the Internet commonly uses incorrectly but it's popular and catchy so that doesn't matter by saying I'm racist because I can't stand seeing a "Black MJ". Think or believe that but I have a deeper level understanding and interest of the character here and using surface level, impulsive and narrow minded insults like that to just make yourselves look self righteous and morally superior just fuels me to stand by what I said.
Furthermore, if the races were reversed and MJ was Black from the beginning in the comics and they suddenly made her White in the MCU I'd still hold these thoughts and make this same argument. Fact.
I think Stan Lee or somebody else said something about race changing characters and talking about Peter Parker specifically. If somebody was this race/color then they should stay that way. Absolutely no reason to change it, not to mention change them to a certain degree unless you're intentionally making them to be an alternate version. But Tom Holland's Peter Parker isn't meant to be an alternative Peter that is vastly different so why is that the case for his main love interest?
Apparently Mary Jane Watson, not Michelle Jones is rumoured to exist in the MCU. Hopefully she is and I'll stand by that. If you want to make or include more diverse characters, that's fine. But don't change already existing ones that have been mainly depicted in a certain way. It's that simple.
If you don't agree with me, cool. If you think I'm a racist, cool. I stand by what I said and what I said is backed up by the material and through logic and reason.
@@21xotwod47 if I have offended you with my comment, I apologize. Have a nice day.
@@marisolhoffmann6447 No need to apologise but I appreciate the positive response. Same to you.
Mary Jane is traditionally a party girl that uses her outgoing nature to hide the pain of an abusive father. She lies to herself about wanting to live in the moment. She's a traditionally a very compassionate person as well because of her past. She hides in the spotlight. There's a lot of complexity in here and it makes a ton of sense why she'd be in love with a responsible, yet fun guy like Peter Parker despite dating a number of guys before him. He provides stability even when he can't be around.
The Raimi movies, I don't want to do a comparison here, but that's the only other live action version, get the backstory right mixed with a more kind of corny girl next door thing for plot convenience. It's still a Mary Jane that gravitates towards the spotlight because her home life is sad. Peter is still there with stability. Even in the Insomniac game, there's hints that she enjoys the thrill of dangerous assignments. She's still passionate about what she does even if she isn't the party girl.
This Michelle Jones is an incredibly dry, sarcastic introvert that goes to a school of geniuses. She said her father likes Peter, so obviously the abusive, absentee father isn't a factor her. She has no interest in being seen in general. She loves Peter after a few days of dating him... but why exactly beyond the plot requiring it? They're so dedicated to being an inverse of what previous movies did before, we don't even have a Mary Jane that likes swinging with Spider-man.
It's just so pointless. They should have stuck to Michelle if they wanted something so wildly different. Just looking at some of the comments in this thread, posters bending over backwards to say this is a modern version of what Mary Jane represented in the 60s..... no. Just.... god, no. Party girls still exist. They didn't turn into antisocial weirdos because of smart phones. If anything there are more people than ever trying to be like comic Mary Jane on Instagram and tik tok than before.
So in my point of view Mary Jane Watson is not Michelle Jones, they made her mj because it was Kevin fiage saw a fun homage to Peter's old love interest, also Michelle said she does not goes by the name of Watson so there are alot of times that they said Jones more then Watson
I just hope they bring an og Mary Jane Watson for the MCU and the next Spider-Man troilgy
I am currently playing Marvel's Spider-Man for the first time on PC and I was just thinking about this topic oh my god. I kept thinking about how the MJ in the game is great and I like her a lot but I couldn't help but compare her to the other versions and how she doesn't quite feel right. Always kept coming back to Spectacular Spider-Man as I always do and thinking how there's probably never gonna be a better version. I am so fucking mad it got cancelled. :(
Edit: Thanks for mentioning TASM2 MJ I love you!
Personally mj in the game is my favorite Mj, its also how i think she would look like in real life.
@@jmgonzales7701 I honestly don't think so. This is too tame for MJ. She is normally an actress and/or model. She would look and behave more like Black Cat if she was truly accurate.
Gotta love how Spider-Man combined good girl Gwen with bad girl Black Cat into a single character.
And any version of MJ that gets powers is always a plus, for some dumb reason for me.
So I that's points for Water MJ, Ultimate MJ (furry goblin powers), and Symbiote Queen MJ.
"Gotta love how Spider-Man combined good girl Gwen with bad girl Black Cat into a single character"
When was that?
Also, Water MJ? And is Symbiote Queen MH from Ultimate Spider-Man?
Her father was abusive so she moved out and went to live with her aunt
This is 616
Glad u finally talked about USM and sm17 does that mean u watched all of both or just mj episodes
Honestly this list just shows me how badly they've adapted the character half the time. 90s, MTV, spec, 10s are basically the only good adaptations, though that is just dismissing all the ones where she has baiscally no role to play like half the games.
Great video 👏 would love to see a deep dive on Gwen at some point! I always found it fascinating how the mythos of that character evolved since Emma Stone portrayed her in the TASM movies. I feel like Emma's portrayal was integral to the current Gwen adaptations.
Nothing personal to the actors, but I really can’t stand it when a large number games cast the same actor for similar-sounding/phoned-in performances like Laura Bailey or Troy Baker. Again it’s nothing personal, it’s just that I associate those two as the default male & female voices for Saints Row 3 and 4… and then hearing one of them as Mary Jane is just distracting as hell
The worst MJ has to be Insomniac's interpretation of the character. She's so mean-spirited towards Peter and incredibly irresponsible.
agreed, she made me like Raimi MJ far more than before.
ps4 version was so unlikable, and she wasn't even an actress or model
@@prufan personally they nailed the look for MJ thou
@@jmgonzales7701 really, I mean I like the design but I felt it looked more like Peters sister Teresa then MJ
@kshamwhizzle yeah i see that
@kshamwhizzle Read the Spiderman: Renew your Vows comics. MJ and Peter have a daughter and the 3 do crime fighting together.
Raimi mj is way better written than the mcu one. In the mcu she is barely peter's quirky supportive Girlfriend and most likely this is the Reason she is so well received(aside from people who hate the raceswap but those don't count as criticisms). I just wish zendaya could have gotten better material to work with since she is a decent actress.
Mary Jane as the Ultimate Spider-Woman, makes me so sad that Ultimate Spider-Man ended with 4 seasons. Something as big as that, with her wearing and using Carnage, should’ve lasted longer, same with Scarlet Spider.
That's Michelle Jones not Mary Jane,
I feel Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular are the only versions that truly understood MJ. She’s still the firecracker party girl but compassionate and decent. Making you think she’ll be self absorbed in the beginning but surprising you with her kindness. Every other version feels like trying too hard to “update” her. I get trying to do your own thing and that ain’t bad, but some times they only make her a prize and other times they make her…normal. And honestly, that makes her a boring character. We have other normal characters who can fill that void, why make MJ too much of a blank slate?
I agree with you. Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular Spider-Man are the best Spider-Man cartoons. What I like about them, that MJ is not only woman in Peter's life like in most of adaptations but Peter is between women like in comics. In TAS Peter was between MJ and Felicia who is in place of Gwen that did not appear because creators did not want feature character that was supposed to die and in Spectacular Peter was between Liz and Gwen. Spider-Man TAS and Spectacular Spider-Man perfectly complement each other in many ways. For example about villains, TAS gave us amazing Scorpion while in Spectacular he was not there, Spectacular gave us amazing Sandman while in TAS he was not there.
Gwen is better. There I said it.
Wasnt a huge fan of PS4 MJ, mostly because she just felt like Lois Lane but lacking any real personality that makes Lois Lane interesting, so like DCEU Lois Lane. Plus I remember being super irked by her complaints about not needing to be saved when almost every side mission she went on ended with her needing to be saved.
man zendaya ruins every MCU scene she's in
and i know it's not only her flat acting and lack of emotions
it's the script that makes her sound like she's reading some idiot's tumblr
she'd say any of this crap in real high school and she'd been outcasted
Imagine if one day they cast an actress to play MJ who is actually ginger.
Redhead* But yeah, that would be neat
@@emmypersonal4033 it’s the same thing
Disagreed about the Raimi MJ. I don't know where you got that she is mad Peter's not chasing her. She liked Peter, Peter said he didn't like her back. Just as she was moving on and had found a new BF, Peter suddenly starts showing interest in her and wants her to break it off with her new BF. That's what she's mad about in the film, how Peter seemed to toy with her. And saying MJ coming from an abusive home is unlike the comics makes no sense. The film did away with Aunt Anna, but MJ very much had an abusive childhood in the comics as well, as seen in TASM #259.
Her personality is pretty much Gwen Stacy though yeah I agree about that.
I really love the MJ from 2017 Spider-Man. She just felt so fun and sweet. I also just love the 2017 Spider-Man. I think I’m the only one, but dang… it’s just my favorite out of all the Spider-Man shows.
Agreed USM and SM17 are my top 2
Idk man sm2017 sucks ass for a lot of reasons, but at least mj was good
I loved MJ in that show as well. There are, surprisingly, a few great things I love about 2017 Spider-Man. MJ being one of them.
Honestly gwen will always be better for peter than mj
God I loved the MTV series, Lisa Loeb as MJ , mint!
My least favorite is the MCU version it’s not that I hate her but she should have been a different character aside from THE MJ
Excellent video-essay, was not expecting this one. MJ is amazing and thank you for such an excellent video on her.
Black Cat should be his main interest and Spider-Man should fully embrace J Jonah Jameson and become Spider-Menace
Marvel's Spiderman version of MJ was something that randomly popped up in my recommended, but was instantly the version I liked the best. People always say MJ is the Spidermans true love but I never saw that and with this perspective that in fact she never was but instead was so flexible that she could was interesting.
8:22 "Mj can take care of herself just fine!"
Also MJ 3 seconds later: *has to be carried by Spiderman*
I don't know the comics but PS4 version was my favorite because she is a character in of herself. She's more than support character but I feel like more support characters should be written like her. She is essential but often gets in deeper than she should. PS4 does such a good job of showing Peter being pulled multiple ways at once and MJ's story is a good way to see that from another perspective.
I liked her too but she was just so damn annoying sometimes
Insomniacs MJ is insufferable…
Ngl this guy is one of the best content creators I have been watching for a while
mcu mj is Michelle jones NOT mary jane her only association with mary jane character is having her initials and a race swap version of the character. it's not an adaption.
Gotta say I always like gwen more than mary jane. Mostly cause emma stone was great as qwen and her chemistry with Andrew as Peter parker was way better than toby and Kirsten. But mj in the comics seems more fun and I can see way peter and mj ended up together
Gotta sy my least favorite is Zendaya, just doesn't seem like the character. Whenever I see her I have to remind myself that its MJ.
None of the live action MJs did Justice to her character from the comics and don't get me started on the PS4 one😭. I did like Spectacular Spider-man and TAS's one. But she's the best character by far in the comics she's just the GOAT.
Does a comic where Mary-Jane is a spider woman instead of Peter exist ?
I still grew up with Ramis spiderman version and will be my forever rendition
Michelle Jones is NOT Mary Jane.
She's a trash original MCU character, who needs to be flushed down the Multiverse toilet and forgotten about.