As Indy and Spart mention, we discuss the Ukraine crisis in our latest episode of the TimeGhost Podcast. If you're a member of the TimeGhost Army, you'll be able to watch us film the episodes live on Thursdays at 20.00h CEST and ask us questions during the program. Full episodes will be published to all podcasting platforms on Fridays. Subscribe to the podcast channel: ua-cam.com/channels/uCDBT7AHng7FYb6KaCOO_g.htmlvideos Join the TimeGhost Army to tune in live: bit.ly/TG_PODCAST_AN
These crazy Fins are getting ready to trigger WW3 to please Joe Biden! I hope Russia conducts a Demilitarization camping in Finland today. Finland is actively threatening Russia National Security. All security threats must be destroyed at once.
Strictly speaking, Finland wouldn´t be declaring independence, they were technically a separate grand duchy, but one ruled by the same guy as the Tsar just as Elizabeth Windsor rules Canada and the UK, but the Tsar was much more autocratic, as much as he could be.
The International Court of Justice´s rulings are binding on all UN member states, and they ruled that the Russian invasion was illegal. Russia obviously isn´t listening, but what about the other countries in the world, how does that ruling affect them?
If he had only dispatched Peter Jackson, swiftly, with his bare hands for cutting him out of The Return of the King, as he would have been justified to do, We would have been spared the Hobbit ' Trilogy'.
Also a guy who is professional hitman with million dollar flat fee (at early 1970s money) and only needs one golden bullet for his job. And everybody's archenemy (paranoid schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur) who knows his foe's weakness to drink, drink, drink, drink, DRIIIIIINK.
@@insomniacresurrected1000 I would not so sure about forever part. Also, finns aren't keen on returning Karelia, Sala etc. because it's underdeveloped, poor and full with russians at the moment.
There's a plaque here in my hometown of Oulu, Finland dedicated to a Danish volunteer Matthias Madsen who served as an air spotter who died at the spot on the 21st of January 1940 during Soviet bombing. It's at the corner of the local lycee here.
Funnily enough I also have heard that story. He was not an air spotter, but sent to guard a bridge next to the lycaeum, against saboteurs. A low flying soviet bomber arrived, and Madsen ran from the bridge towards the lycaeum. However the bomber did not drop bombs on the bridge and was possibly an observing plane. When Madsen had reached the lycaeum, the bomber turned and a gunner noticed him and shot him against the wall. To my knowledge, the plaque should be right above where he died, and the bullet marks still left in the stonework. Maybe you can even confirm this for others here.
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 I actually wrote a really long answer to you yesterday but it seems to have been censored for containing a link to an article explaining it a little better. Basically Oulu was attacked by 16 SB2's in three waves that night and and the sign doesn't say anything about him running away from anywhere. Just that he died on the spot on the 21st of January. The bullet marks have been left there at the foundation of the building even though the school has been renovated several times and it's actually right now under yet another renovation. There were 800 Danes stationed here in Oulu on various duties during the Winter War.
@@Perkelenaattori The running is an educated guess. I would have ran at least, either to get away from bombs, or to warn the others. When I write a long article, I always make a backup copy of it before posting, just in case something goes wrong, and with UA-cam especially, it often does goe wrong. So I can sympathise with the frustration. 🙂
11:47 That is interesting point. Finnish volunteer held AMA in Reddit a while ago and he said that surprisingly many foreign volunteers from NATO countries - even some with military training and past combat experience from Iraq and Afghanistan - soon left the country after being shelled or hit by missiles for the first time and in general had some difficulties adapting to environment where they don't have aerial superiority and technological edge. I think some might have been caught off guard and not quite understood what it is like to fight against near-peer adversaries. It is one thing to operate in environment where you might get killed if you're unlucky and another to operate in environment where you are lucky if you make it out alive. You really have to be there for a cause and have some vague idea what you are getting yourself into. Those who stayed apparently are really determined and motivated regardless of their background, so that's that. Huge respect and hats off to each and everyone who stayed. Probably not an easy decision especially if you are not from Eastern Europe and your country does not live under the threat of Russian imperialism and has not gone through it in the past. Even then it would not be easy because the risk of losing your life is very real and proper wars suck pretty much in every imaginable way, especially if you are fighting in the frontlines.
"soon left the country after being shelled or hit by missiles for the first time".. those were not coconuts falling on the roofs; some 35 KILLED and 130 INJURED.. and all that in a SMALL AREA within say 500 volunteers ..leaves its PTSD marks... you.idi.ot.
The Reddit Battalion soon realized that they are not hunting peasants armed with 60's weapons at best. The fact that many of those ''surprised'' people were veteran soldiers, says alot about the intensity of the fighting and their conditioning.
As a Chilean my family has suffered under the yoke of communism in the 70's and now the chavist sponsored coup attemp of october/2019. You are SPOT ON, many volunteers from here went to Ukraine and if the war prolongs im sure as hell going there to support in any way I can
@@joek600 The Reddit Battalion? The person who held the AMA in r/suomi is still in Ukraine. They were resting in Kyiv after a few weeks of fighting and now they are back in action somewhere. He was paramedic in civilian life and served his mandatory military service in Kaarti Jaeger Regiment, now currently fighting as a combat medic in an unit consisting mostly of other Finnish volunteers. I think the ability to adapt to wartime environment has lots to do with training. The sole purpose of Finnish Defense Forces is to teach people how to defend the country against Russia, therefore they should have some kind of idea how they should operate. Ukrainians have been preparing to do the same for 8 years and many have prior combat experience from Eastern Ukraine. However, many Western countries have focused on asymmetric warfare for years and the way the infantry operates has started to reflect that to some extent and people's expectations as well. Even when training against more conventional threats there is an assumption of superiority and infantry leans heavily on their combined arms capabilities. Apparently some have struggled even with things that one could imagine are just common sense. I translated a snippet from the AMA that illustrates this rather well: Qurqon: Have you tried to pass information about how Finnish Defense Forces would operate in different situations? And how receptive the locals are for new tactics? Are the commanders "This is how we have always done things" type? Leksa-R: We have and sometimes it has been like banging head against a wall, sometimes they listen. Usually it requires that someone dies first. Probably the best example was this "tent village" of one unit where they had sleeping tents et cetera neatly lined right next to each other on an open field, so the commanders could reach their men easily. We expressed how terrified we were about this and tried to explain that everything should be dispersed under the trees like it would be done in Finland, but the commander ignored our warnings till a few days later a missile struck a "tent village" of neighboring unit and there were only few survivors. After that the commander saw the light about the thing we had tried to warn him the entire week, and ordered all of the tents to be dispersed over a large area and camouflage them. And us Finns? From the beginning we did what we knew best - we went into forest, dug deep foxholes where we slept under the open skies, safer that way, much to the amusement of other foreign volunteers. At least until the next bombardment. /END I heard from another source that the missile strike left around 50 people KIA - assuming that was the same incident. Apparently the camp was not only in the middle of a field, but there were combat tourists among the volunteers taking pictures with their phones and uploading them to social media even though phones are strictly forbidden for reasons that should be obvious to everyone. OPSEC is really important and not adhering it will get people killed. Then there was also the massive missile barrage on Yaroviv that killed many foreign volunteers. I won't get into details, but falling asleep at the wrong time might cost lives as well.
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In continuation war swedish and estonian volunteers were very effective in combat, but then again they were veterans at that point. Estonian regiment had motto, ”For the freedom of Finland and the honour of Estonia”. They certainly made their motto reality.
At least for Estonians that could make a lot of sense. For Swedes, that is like volunteering for the Germans. Not really be best side of history to be on
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@@Carewolf Swedes were there to fight Soviets with Finland. It makes perfect sense, if Finland falls, the bolshevik empire is at their doorstep. Finland wasn't there to fight for Nazi empire either. Finland was fighting for its existence against imperialist Soviet Union.
@Swedish and Nordic. Finland wouldn't be even close what it is today if it wasn't 700 years a part of Sweden. Not an occupied territory of Sweden like all too many history-blind "patriots" are spinning year after year, but one of the original founding "brothers" of the Sweden we know today. It isn't that long ago when swedish was the first language of almost 40% of the population of Finland. We can assume the percentage of those who understood or could spoke enough swedish to get by with it in their everyday contacts had then been about 65-70%. Sweden and swedish language (along with the academic latin and greek, and german) were Finland's umbilical cord to Europe, it's history, art, culture, economics, science, philosophy, political ideas, and religion. And we learned to use fork and knife too. The sea between the countries didn't divide us, but on the contrary served as a glue to the western and eastern halves of Sweden, aka Finland. Is there any beneficial aspects in the swedish culture today which come from Finland and Finland alone? There is, indeed. One of the most important contributions Finland is clearly responsible is that we finns taught swedes how to play ice hockey. There's been gradual progress the last decades in Sweden especially in ice hockey and it's interesting to see how Sweden will get by in the ongoing championships in Finland. Häja Sverige. Remember silver medal isn't that bad, and it's never a reason to be ashamed of to lose in the finals to Finland.
I remember that in Max Manus' memoars he writes about fighting in the winter war, for it to end and as he and many other Norwegian volunteers arrive back in norway are told they've been invaded and "given up without a fight" which isn't true, but supposedly what his group was told Imagine how defeating that would feel, fighting another country's war to lose it, and return home to an desperate, un-winnable situation there
To be fair, Finland remained independent so Winter War was not lost, despite what people may think and say. When the alternative is the complete destruction of your people, culture and homeland, even an a crushingly embarrassing peace is a victory.
@@XIIIphobos sounds like something Hamas or Hezbollah would say. But hey, that was how Ho Chi Minh won everytime. By losing every battle, and soaking up more damage than you deliver. Then just wait until he says F*** it, and goes home.
The idea of foreign fighters as unusual is a late 20th century ideal. From John Hawkwood fighting in Italy, to Scots James Spens, Patrick Ruthven, James King, Alexander Leslie serving in Sweden’s army, the Irish Wild Geese, Fredrick Townsend Ward, William Walker and his men to American’s volunteering for both WWs to African wars not to mention the Foreign Legions. Being a volunteer, hired soldier, mercenary, privateer has a long established and honorable career choice. Only in the last 40-50 years has it become looked down upon.
You have to be careful though… there’s a distinction between mercenaries and volunteers - it’s not a clear distinction, but it’s there. The number of mercenaries employed to wage wars has more or less constantly declined over time, volunteers is more modern phenomenon and has fluctuated, probably depending on perceived cause.
@@spartacus-olsson That is true. We would look at it more as mercenary if there was a large contingent of Americans fighting in a unit without Ukranians and getting more money than a regular soldier.
@lati long I think it was more toward the mid 60s and the conflicts in Africa. Soldiers from all over the world were paid to fight. Even the Cubans sent troops for their USSR masters. Then again there were Americans that weren't welcomed at home after Vietnam service. They could be from other countries as well. Remember Warren Zevon's Rolland the Headless Thompson Gunner has a basis in reality.
Privateers were legally very grey even in era they were employed and notoriously undisciplined in their conduct. That means English privateers did attack English merchant ships just because it was easy target. There is also difference in volunteering to serve in foreign military (like French Foreign Legion or Ukraine's International Legion) and privately employed (hired by company) goon meant to terrorize locals to leave from lands to be mined by foreign company are completely different. There is quite big and clear difference between serving in military and gooning for company.
You guys should do an episode on Grupp Conny, my favorite Swedish resistance unit of WWII. Made up of veterans from the Spanish civil war and the Winter war, they fought against the germans in Norway and against german spies in Stockholm.
Excellent as always. Worth noting though that there were volunteers on both sides in the Spanish Civil War - the "Irish Brigade" were one such group, fighting for Franco against Communism, whilst many other Irishmen fought with the Republicans against Fascism. Strange old world....
It's certainly a stereotype, but the Irish really have been fighting in lots of other people's wars, from the gallowglasses, through Mad Mike Hoare to the present.
Mentioning how Brazil sent thousands of pounds of coffee to Finland makes me wonder if that helped kickstart the coffee craze in Finland still going on to this day. they are the largest coffee consumers in the world per capita. I don't know if their coffee consumption was a big thing back then as well
A topical subject for me. A couple of days ago I finished reading George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" about his time spent fighting with the Govt forces in the Spanish Civil War. Another good book on the subject is "Some Still Live" by F. G. Tinker. He was an American fighter pilot who signed up to fly for the Govt forces during the Civil War. He scored 8 kills during his time there.
Your statement that “states shouldn’t sanction their citizens volunteering for a foreign war” is a bit confusing. I know what you meant, but since in that context “sanction” could mean “allow” OR “punish”. English is a crazy language. Great vid as always.
It is okay for each individual to fight on the side they want, but I am fascinated that no one opposes inhumane sanctions. How will the fact that Ivan from Moscow cannot fly with his girlfriend to Paris or Michelle from Marseilles to St. Petersburg help end the conflict, a peaceful solution and a smaller number of victims? How will it help that the Russian tennis player is not participating in the tournament or that Sergei's company was seized in Germany?
@@robbrown4621 Exactly what I want to say. In the name of the rule of law, we bend the laws as it suits us, we make exceptions when it suits us. And it is so common, so common that no one talks about it, let alone opposes it. We live in a sad world.
That would be an interesting video to watch, given how little talked topic it is. From what information ive found Online, there were several honorable mentions of specific Finnish people who participated in the conflict, arguably one of the most famous ones being a man by the name of "Otto Mauno Geers". Theres a small article about him in Wikipedia.
This was a pretty good explanation on foreign fighters, they are certainly nothing new, ranging from the International Brigades during the Spanish Civil War to the Ukrainian Foreign Legion during the current Russian invasion of Ukraine. Interestingly, I didn't even know Christopher Lee had actually volunteered in the Winter War!
Yes , but if you listen carefully. So when Spanish Republicans fought against fascism countries tried to prevent their citizens from joining the fight to aid against fascism. When the Winter war starts no such actions are taken and Indy omits a lot of pre war info : like the idea of greater Finland and one minor attempt of its implementation during Russian civil war.
I wonder how many people watch WW1 or WW2 but straight up haven't found this gem of a channel yet. I love how thorough you are with periods you discuss. I've been supplementing my knowledge of the interwar years with B2W lately and it's been great. Thank you for giving us this content!
You'll be surprised the that original The Great War channel has also been releasing interwar content that explores the major events between 1919-23. They've already released roughly 7 hours worth of content about the Russian Civil War alone, with another 20 hours of various other obscure events, like the Italo-Turkish War, the Irish War of Independence and the Russo-Japanese War. They've also released a new channel called Real Time History that explores the Franco-Prussian War in a Week-by-week basis, the Battle of Iwo Jima in a day-to-day basis and the Battle of Borodino in their series about Napoleon's invasion of Russia.
@@KytexEdits No need to feel down my friend. Just happy to spread the awareness about this underrated historical content. Plus, I'm happy to know that the original channel was left in good hands.
6:32 Petrograd (or modern Saint-Petersbug) has never been a part of Finland or taken by Finnish or US forces. Maybe it is different place, but I could not find it anywhere, so werify your sourses, please.
Surprised and happy to see you guys pull several points from my Winter War article! And there it is, in the bibliography, nice indeed :) Just one tiny correction - the two British organizations existed at the same time but for different purposes: Finnish Fund was gathering money for humanitarian help and the only volunteers they sent were the Quaker fireman unit sent to help civil defence in Helsinki. The Finnish Aid Bureau was created to recruit and organize foreign volunteers and had its own fundraising activity to pay the wages of the volunteers so that the Finns wouldn't be financially burdened by accepting them.
Indy, is that a Pal Zileri tie? I have one, tied too with the windsor, that has the same exact pattern and color schemes, although the dominant color is slightly more bluer. The middle color running through the stripes is dark brown and white in between.
Would be interesting to do another "on the other side" comparison with foreign fighters in the (modern) Russian Army- Sort of like seeing the Spanish Blue Division or the Free Arab Legion serving under the Germans. Just to give the topic of foreign fighters/mercenaries a bit more nuance.
The problem with that is that there isn't much information on foreign fighters fighting for Russia. There are apparently some Syrians and Libyans, but we don't know too much about them other than they got slaughtered at Aviidka. There is a lot about the Wagner Group, but they are mercenaries and not volunteers.
Great episode! If anyone's interested in foreign fighters throughout history, I can not recommend looking into Canadian and American history enough. The two nations have an unofficial tradition of volunteering to fight in the other's army dating back to at least the American Civil War, wherein approximately 33-55 thousand British North Americans volunteered to fight (mostly) in the Union Army. As a grad student, I myself researched the phenomena extensively with the American phase of the Vietnam War (1964-1973), where around 40000 Canadians served in American forces. The cultural consciousness of foreign volunteers, including their social background and ultimate reasons for fighting, is endlessly fascinating to me, and I'm glad TimeGhost decided to cover the topic!
An interesting bit of trivia related to that is that the guy who would later compose the Canadian national anthem, Calixa Lavallée, was a French-Canadian who volunteered for the U.S. Army during the American civil war. He served as a musician with the 4th Rhode Island infantry regiment. Between 25% to 33% of the U.S. Army during the American civil war was foreign born, mainly Germans and Irish, though in most cases (unlike Calixa) these were immigrants who were permanent residents in the U.S. before the conflict. Confederate propaganda at the time, and Lost Causers today, try to portray them as foreign mercenaries or "Hessians," but the reality was that most were no different than native born soldiers.
Swedish volunteers were very effective. Swedish were mostly put to defend the north and therefore less Finnish troops were needed for essentially guard duty up north and they coud take part in the bigger fighting that was going on in south east Finland were troops were needed.
The foreign fighters in Finland 1939-40 and in Ukraine 2022 are helping a nation defend itself against an armed ivasion, per the article 41 of the United Nations Charter.
It makes sense that Ukraine is limiting foreign enlistment to those that can demonstrate they have prior military service with combat. With the war being on their territory and requiring the use of advanced weapons and systems. Even if new volunteers are not acquainted with the specific systems that Ukraine is employing, if they're already generally trained to operate in a unit and experienced in combat then training on specific systems isn't much different than any other soldier requires as systems change.
Apparently there was an issue, at least early on, of foreign volunteers showing up who had lots of enthusiasm but zero practical experience. I don't know why anyone without military training or experience would try to volunteer as a soldier. If accepted they'd just be a hinderance to whichever unit got saddled with them and would be likely to get themselves, and possibly others, killed. The amateurs would be better off volunteering for humanitarian work.
But one big dif in modern Ukraine volunteers is that many are not 'naive adventurers' as these kind of mid-tier conflicts attract, but battle-hardened soldiers, a lot of them either on some kind of leave or recently retired, very aggressive on the battlefield, and many with special operations or infantry experience. That has given them a much greater impact than their size would suggest, and I have seen a number of news articles suggesting they have been highly effective. CivDiv's channel here on UA-cam is an example. He's a former US Marine that has also fought independently with the Kurds in northern Iraq.
Thanks for the video. I couldn't help but notice the battle going on in the background...Indy on Team Trek with a picture of Kirk and Spock, Sparty with a model of the Millennium Falcon on the bookshelf.
Every war has been fought with the help of foreign fighters. The French fought in our revolutionary war, Germans fought in Spain, the Gorkhas fought for England etc.
5:29 Finlands sak är vår "Finlands cause is ours". The motto still stands today as swedes agree that a finnish ascension to nato is also a swedish one.
I know one instance of a group of foreign volunteers who were quite decisive in the spansih civil war. At the start of the war in 1936, the northern front in the basque country was extremely vulnerable because a lack of equipment. The advance of rebels was only stoped at Intxorta thanks to the last minute arrival of some Czech rifles (before that, the basque army had to rely on hunting weapons), but was decisively helped by 4 belgians who managed to bring a heavy machinegun, which weas one of the few ones present in the entire front. Its also important to note, this happened before the stablishment of the International Brigades. BTW, unlike the Finns, spanish republicans didn'0t have any problem on accepting Germans (Thälmann Battalion) and Italians (XII International Brigade) as volunteers.
talking about forign fighters. the march of the french foreign legion, pretty much set by the 1870 war with prussia, , le boudin, curse the belgians as a pain in the A__ becasue their king asked france to keep them out of thr fighting so it didn't look like belgium was supporting france in the wear. the song praises the swiss, alcaians and loraine people who stood by france and then promptly disses the belgians as a pain.
Great job Indy and Spartacus! I think talking about the Russo-Finnish conflicts are important because of Putin’s threats to Finland and Sweden if they choose to apply for NATO membership
@@Anonymous-qw I mean it certainly is a point that should be debated, if nato really is a worthwhile alliance, particularly given the human rights records of some its members. However, I was making a joke based on the op's user name.
Those threats are almost certainly just that - threats. For example Russia already has nuclear missiles in Kaliningrad, Leningrad Oblast and Murmansk, so the threats to reposition them to Kaliningrad, Leningrad Oblast and Murmansk is like threatening to do nothing. Not to mention it would make little sense to position them there anyway, as ideally you would want them far enough that the enemy can't target your launch sites.
I have always been proud of the fact that my maternal grandfather " ran guns to Spain " during their civil war. After viewinfg the Orson Welles - Ernest Hemmingway documentary THE SPANISH EARTH he stole rifles and ammunition from the local National Guard armoury. These items were then passed on to a network in Windsor Ontario for shipment on to the Spanish Republicans. I am quite sure that if he had been single he would have gone to Spain with rifles
As a former foriegn volunteer in Burma this is a hot button topic for me. My reading of LOAC is that if you are in uniform, bearing arms openly and enrolled in regularized forces than you are entitled to the protections (and duties) of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.
That is absolutely correct, those protections are explicitly extended to foreign fighters as well, but you can still be prosecuted by your own country, another country, or the international courts at The Hague for illegally fighting in a war that your home country was/is not a belligerent to. The likelihood that you will be is very low as long as you don’t commit war crimes.
During the French Revolution period and Wars of the Xth (there were like 8, and I forget which one this was) Coalition the French, the Revolutionary French came here to the States and started standing up units of privateers along the coast, which lead to a lot of pretty interesting historical precedents that I think would have gone on to effect some US policy on the matter in the early 20th century, too. I highly recommend those interested look in to it. :)
Interestingly in Yugoslavian civil war Ukrainians and Russians together with other orthodox nationalities volunteered for Serbs, Mujahedeens and other muslim groups for Bosniaks and fascists and those directly recruited from western Governments for Croats.
One of the things I enjoy most is seeing their belief that ` the internet ` is a big part of the ` big picture ` as relates to what happens within and about the drivers for ` B p ` events.
Important point that you can't simplify the motivations of foreign fighters into a one-dimensional ideology. Volunteers may fight the same cause through opposing sides, or fight on the same side for opposing causes. During WW1 there were Italian volunteers who signed up to fight for France in the Garibaldi brigade, believing it was an ideological clash between the democratic Englightenment values of the French Republic versus the monarchist tyranny of the Central Powers. But then after the war, you had at least one left-wing nationalist Corsican war veteran travel to participate in the Irish war of independence from Britain. For one set of Italians, France and Britain were the champions of democratic values, yet for another set, they were colonial oppressor states. How this was interpreted depended on what one thought the war was all about. Similarly, in the Spanish Civil War the Comintern organisers of the International Brigades didn't always understand the cultural, ethnic and historical tensions between the diverse group of volunteers they managed. The UK and Irish volunteers were therefore placed into a shared brigade. This resulted in a mutiny, when the Irishtroops and their British commanding office discovered that, twenty years earlier, they had fought on opposing sides of the Irish war of independence: the officer had been a 'Black and Tan' - part of the counterinsurgency paramilitary sent by Britain to repress the Irish independence movement. For the Irish volunteers, who largely came from Sinn Féin backgrounds, fascism meant militaristic monarchists. For the British, it was the other way round - Sinn Féin and the IRA, being nationalist paramilitaries, appeared to be themselves fascist. Both sides had gone to Spain to fight fascists, only to end up fighting alongside them (as each side imagined it).
.. Interested in how the "AMERICAN Volunteer Group" (Flying Tigers) factor into this topic, (as well as the Americans that got involved in the war through Canada).
The Spanish civil war was really the start of modern international volunteering, the later winter war solidified it, and wars like Afghanistan and Syria, produced the modern context of foreign volunteering for military reasons.
Actually, three Danish pilots were killed in air combat over Finland in The Winter War, and one from the volunteer battalion was fatally wounded when Soviet planes bombed their base. I have only been able to find the name of the latter; Mathias Madsen. Edit; many Danish volunteers later joined either the Resistance (in fact one of the major groups was formed by volunteers), or joined Frikorps Danmark- most famously Schalburg. At least one stayed in Finnish service and fell in The Continuation War.
I am thinking the volunteer from Trinidad did not speak the language or snow skied‽ It does not surprise me where my people would pop up.....We seem to get around.
0:33 *"...a guy in Moscow",* that *"guy"* was the grandfather to an old friend of mine, a Turkish woman of Georgian origin. Not until she moved to Denmark did she come to know the atrocities her grandfather Joseph committed. When she knew him as child he was just a loving and caring nice old granddad. Yes, "that" *Stalin* it was.
Speaking as a Finn i would say that as concerning the Swedish volunteers the language barrier was not great at all since we have a schooling system ever since our independence of learning the two languages that are spoken officially in Finland Finnish and Swedish and those who speak mainly Swedish live on the coastal areas we refer to them as the Finnish Swedes and from times past they have always formed the leading cadre of the officer class in the army belonging of old to the nobilety because of old about 1000 years ago the Swedes took Finland and originally we were one country with Sweden only we being the eastern province and 300 hundred years ago the Russians invaded and we were the grand Duchy of the Russian empire until our war of independance in 1917 when we won our independence keep up the good work enjoy the episodes Tom...
I noticed those photos on the wall, behind Indy. One, near his left shoulder looks like Leonard Nimoy and Bill Shatner, in their Star Trek uniforms. [or, is it Chris Pine and Zach Quinto? I am not sure which]
Thank you for this interesting look at foreign fighters in conflicts zones. At the beginning of the current situation. Ukraine stated that it would not accept any foreign volunteers who did not have combat experience. Whether they stuck with this stipulation or not, I do not know.
What about the German-American dual nationals, who went back to fight for the “Fatherland” when hostilities started in September ‘39, fought the Poles, Brits, and French. Did they have to swear an oath to Germany, or did the Germans sort of turn them loose to just fight against their enemies without any kind of allegiance documentation? Since the US was a neutral nation at the time, I guess it was kind of a murky situation. But when the US entered the war, what happened to these guys............instantaneous POWs or American traitors? Somewhat off topic, but two motion pictures Stalag 17 and Band of Brothers broached this topic, so I’ve always wondered about this.
The incident in the TV series Band of Brothers where American soldiers encounter at least one American among a group of SS PoWs, who are later executed by one of the American officers, was alleged to have occurred by at least one of the surviving veterans the series was based on. If it happened it never left an official paper trail for historians, however. A better documented and interesting case is that of Nobuaki "Warren" Iwatake, an American of Japanese descent that had been born in Hawaii, but was living with relatives in Japan when war broke out with the United States. He ended up drafted into the Japanese Army. He was stationed on Chichi Jima and witnessed the downing of a plane piloted by future U.S. president George H.W. Bush, and was assigned to guard another downed U.S. pilot named Warren Earl Vaughn, who had been captured. During that time the two struck up a friendship. Unfortunately later Japanese officers took Vaughn away, and executed him, but Iwatake adopted the name Warren as his own in remembrance. After the war he worked as a translator in the U.S. embassy in Tokyo, met Bush, & also returned to live in Hawaii.
I find it rather funny how Christopher Lee - the actor of Saruman - volunteered to fight against the Soviet Union in 1939 and now Ian McKellen - the actor of Gandalf - visited Ukraine and voiced his support. It's like they are doing the same thing, but still somehow managing to be the polar opposites of each other even outside the screen.
You give the impression that the intended help from Britain in the form of actual troops was more than just a bluff and that those troops would have helped the Finns fighting the Russians. In Sweden there was this feeling (at least after the war) that those troops would have just been used to cut the Swedish iron ore business with Germany. Well Churchill did not claim he was "leading on Finland", this for those who can do the connection.
@@hurri7720 I’m just saying we used the word _consider_ sending troops. The essential point here made being the Swedish reaction as evidence of the firmness of the Swedish position. If the British and French considerations were honest or not is a whole other issue, one that can’t be explored in passing to any accuracy.
@@spartacus-olsson , yes and that is why I wrote "you give the impression". Small countries were kicked around by bigger countries, Sweden too, not firm enough to prevent the Germans passing through the country at will or ending the iro ore trade to Germany. We in Finland remember the Swedish help we got in many different ways.
I did a paper in high school on the Spanish civil war, and at the start Spain had the worlds 4th largest gold reserve if I remember correctly. And for all the help the soviets sent, they received most of Spain’s gold reserves. Some went to Germany but I wanna say the Soviets got a lot of it. Can anyone speak on that?
Hey, not a bad idea! As you can see from our WW2 channel, we’re pretty focused on DDAY (and ww2 chronological coverage in general) for now, but I’ll certainly put a note in and perhaps cover this on our Twitter as well! -Will
You should do a biography special of Christopher Lee. His remark to Peter Jackson that he knew what it sounds like to stab someone, but wasn't allowed to say how gives a good view of his personality.
It more like Sir Lee disagreeing on grounds of "man being stabbed doesn't make that sound" and when Jackson questioned Lee retorted with "trust me, I know how it sounds" and that was it.
The map is wrong! Finland has the borders of 1940 Moscow peace treaty AFTER Winter war. You should always use the FINLAND map 1939 when beginining before the Winter war. If you don't, none of it makes any sense.
@lati long While it may fit in to a certain context I don't think we will be using maps which propagate aggressive ambitions against what were at the time sovereign nations
Why? He lied about almost all of his service. He was "just" an RAF liaison officer. He did almost nothing that he claimed he did. He was not a member of any special forces. He didn't hunt Nazis after the war.
Not only Spain, Finland and the Ukraine. Many thousands of Irish men and women joined the UK armed services during 1939-1945 or worked in its war industries, all the while Ireland was scrupulously and pointedly neutral. The Irish Government officially and legally discriminated against these men and women when they returned to Ireland after the war.
If we enlist in the Time Ghost Army, will we be sent to the front before the series is over? Will the leaders speak our language? Do we need to know how to ski or to shoot a rifle? Do we need to know what we're getting into? Do we have to pledge allegiance to the leaders?
"Marine veteran who died fighting in Ukraine was a volunteer, not a private contractor, say his fellow fighters" - Business Insider is reporting that the information about Joseph Cancel working for a PMC in Ukraine was incorrect.
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe contractor is just a fancy name for mercenary. contractors like mercenaries are hired under atypical conditions in regard to wage, regulations and jobs. Volunteers normally join the army with the standard wages, rules and similar to what citizens got.
They were, but that was (I think) almost a year, year and a half later. 1939 : you really shouldn't go fight for Finland, but we can't stop you. 1941 : if you want to go fight for China take some airplanes.
And later on in Nam and Korea plenty of advisors were shooting down planes from the other superpower. I think the point they are making is that if you just let one of your armies just volunteer with their tanks planes and arty while not declaring war it's not allowed. You need to pretend that your not fighting.
As Indy and Spart mention, we discuss the Ukraine crisis in our latest episode of the TimeGhost Podcast. If you're a member of the TimeGhost Army, you'll be able to watch us film the episodes live on Thursdays at 20.00h CEST and ask us questions during the program. Full episodes will be published to all podcasting platforms on Fridays.
Subscribe to the podcast channel: ua-cam.com/channels/uCDBT7AHng7FYb6KaCOO_g.htmlvideos
Join the TimeGhost Army to tune in live: bit.ly/TG_PODCAST_AN
These crazy Fins are getting ready to trigger WW3 to please Joe Biden!
I hope Russia conducts a Demilitarization camping in Finland today.
Finland is actively threatening Russia National Security. All security threats must be destroyed at once.
We hear about foreign fighters for republican Spain but other then the German or Italian "volunteers" were the any true volunteers.
Can you make an episode somewhere explaining the laws of war, what applied when and to whom, their enforcement by modern courts, and related things?
Strictly speaking, Finland wouldn´t be declaring independence, they were technically a separate grand duchy, but one ruled by the same guy as the Tsar just as Elizabeth Windsor rules Canada and the UK, but the Tsar was much more autocratic, as much as he could be.
The International Court of Justice´s rulings are binding on all UN member states, and they ruled that the Russian invasion was illegal. Russia obviously isn´t listening, but what about the other countries in the world, how does that ruling affect them?
Christopher Lee: The most interesting man in the world
Any other world which he may inhabit.
add Adrian Carton de Wiart to the club
If he had only dispatched Peter Jackson, swiftly, with his bare hands for cutting him out of The Return of the King, as he would have been justified to do, We would have been spared the Hobbit ' Trilogy'.
Just a remind he had a metal band about Charlemagne (like a "Christian Sabaton")
If they ever do a bio picture of his life andything between the 30s and 40s would be redacted
No wonder Finland survived the Soviet onslaught. They had a vampire sorcerer sith lord on their side
Also a guy who is professional hitman with million dollar flat fee (at early 1970s money) and only needs one golden bullet for his job. And everybody's archenemy (paranoid schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur) who knows his foe's weakness to drink, drink, drink, drink, DRIIIIIINK.
Not to mention the lollipops 😂😂
Finland lost territory in that war forever.
@@insomniacresurrected1000 I would not so sure about forever part. Also, finns aren't keen on returning Karelia, Sala etc. because it's underdeveloped, poor and full with russians at the moment.
There's a plaque here in my hometown of Oulu, Finland dedicated to a Danish volunteer Matthias Madsen who served as an air spotter who died at the spot on the 21st of January 1940 during Soviet bombing. It's at the corner of the local lycee here.
not a good spotter it seems.
Funnily enough I also have heard that story. He was not an air spotter, but sent to guard a bridge next to the lycaeum, against saboteurs. A low flying soviet bomber arrived, and Madsen ran from the bridge towards the lycaeum. However the bomber did not drop bombs on the bridge and was possibly an observing plane.
When Madsen had reached the lycaeum, the bomber turned and a gunner noticed him and shot him against the wall. To my knowledge, the plaque should be right above where he died, and the bullet marks still left in the stonework. Maybe you can even confirm this for others here.
@@DelijeSerbia he spotted the bomber, and ...faced the bombs and bullets heading for him..
I d say he was an excellent spotter.
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 I actually wrote a really long answer to you yesterday but it seems to have been censored for containing a link to an article explaining it a little better. Basically Oulu was attacked by 16 SB2's in three waves that night and and the sign doesn't say anything about him running away from anywhere. Just that he died on the spot on the 21st of January. The bullet marks have been left there at the foundation of the building even though the school has been renovated several times and it's actually right now under yet another renovation. There were 800 Danes stationed here in Oulu on various duties during the Winter War.
@@Perkelenaattori The running is an educated guess. I would have ran at least, either to get away from bombs, or to warn the others.
When I write a long article, I always make a backup copy of it before posting, just in case something goes wrong, and with UA-cam especially, it often does goe wrong.
So I can sympathise with the frustration. 🙂
11:47 That is interesting point. Finnish volunteer held AMA in Reddit a while ago and he said that surprisingly many foreign volunteers from NATO countries - even some with military training and past combat experience from Iraq and Afghanistan - soon left the country after being shelled or hit by missiles for the first time and in general had some difficulties adapting to environment where they don't have aerial superiority and technological edge.
I think some might have been caught off guard and not quite understood what it is like to fight against near-peer adversaries. It is one thing to operate in environment where you might get killed if you're unlucky and another to operate in environment where you are lucky if you make it out alive. You really have to be there for a cause and have some vague idea what you are getting yourself into. Those who stayed apparently are really determined and motivated regardless of their background, so that's that.
Huge respect and hats off to each and everyone who stayed. Probably not an easy decision especially if you are not from Eastern Europe and your country does not live under the threat of Russian imperialism and has not gone through it in the past. Even then it would not be easy because the risk of losing your life is very real and proper wars suck pretty much in every imaginable way, especially if you are fighting in the frontlines.
"soon left the country after being shelled or hit by missiles for the first time"..
those were not coconuts falling on the roofs; some 35 KILLED and 130 INJURED..
and all that in a SMALL AREA within say 500 volunteers ..leaves its PTSD marks...
you.idi.ot.
The Reddit Battalion soon realized that they are not hunting peasants armed with 60's weapons at best. The fact that many of those ''surprised'' people were veteran soldiers, says alot about the intensity of the fighting and their conditioning.
As a Chilean my family has suffered under the yoke of communism in the 70's and now the chavist sponsored coup attemp of october/2019. You are SPOT ON, many volunteers from here went to Ukraine and if the war prolongs im sure as hell going there to support in any way I can
@@pridefulobserver3807 So I guess the Picochet years had to be the ''good times'' for your family?
@@joek600 The Reddit Battalion?
The person who held the AMA in r/suomi is still in Ukraine. They were resting in Kyiv after a few weeks of fighting and now they are back in action somewhere. He was paramedic in civilian life and served his mandatory military service in Kaarti Jaeger Regiment, now currently fighting as a combat medic in an unit consisting mostly of other Finnish volunteers.
I think the ability to adapt to wartime environment has lots to do with training. The sole purpose of Finnish Defense Forces is to teach people how to defend the country against Russia, therefore they should have some kind of idea how they should operate. Ukrainians have been preparing to do the same for 8 years and many have prior combat experience from Eastern Ukraine. However, many Western countries have focused on asymmetric warfare for years and the way the infantry operates has started to reflect that to some extent and people's expectations as well. Even when training against more conventional threats there is an assumption of superiority and infantry leans heavily on their combined arms capabilities. Apparently some have struggled even with things that one could imagine are just common sense. I translated a snippet from the AMA that illustrates this rather well:
Qurqon: Have you tried to pass information about how Finnish Defense Forces would operate in different situations? And how receptive the locals are for new tactics? Are the commanders "This is how we have always done things" type?
Leksa-R: We have and sometimes it has been like banging head against a wall, sometimes they listen. Usually it requires that someone dies first.
Probably the best example was this "tent village" of one unit where they had sleeping tents et cetera neatly lined right next to each other on an open field, so the commanders could reach their men easily. We expressed how terrified we were about this and tried to explain that everything should be dispersed under the trees like it would be done in Finland, but the commander ignored our warnings till a few days later a missile struck a "tent village" of neighboring unit and there were only few survivors.
After that the commander saw the light about the thing we had tried to warn him the entire week, and ordered all of the tents to be dispersed over a large area and camouflage them.
And us Finns? From the beginning we did what we knew best - we went into forest, dug deep foxholes where we slept under the open skies, safer that way,
much to the amusement of other foreign volunteers. At least until the next bombardment.
/END
I heard from another source that the missile strike left around 50 people KIA - assuming that was the same incident. Apparently the camp was not only in the middle of a field, but there were combat tourists among the volunteers taking pictures with their phones and uploading them to social media even though phones are strictly forbidden for reasons that should be obvious to everyone. OPSEC is really important and not adhering it will get people killed.
Then there was also the massive missile barrage on Yaroviv that killed many foreign volunteers. I won't get into details, but falling asleep at the wrong time might cost lives as well.
In continuation war swedish and estonian volunteers were very effective in combat, but then again they were veterans at that point. Estonian regiment had motto, ”For the freedom of Finland and the honour of Estonia”. They certainly made their motto reality.
At least for Estonians that could make a lot of sense. For Swedes, that is like volunteering for the Germans. Not really be best side of history to be on
@@Carewolf Swedes were there to fight Soviets with Finland. It makes perfect sense, if Finland falls, the bolshevik empire is at their doorstep. Finland wasn't there to fight for Nazi empire either. Finland was fighting for its existence against imperialist Soviet Union.
@Swedish and Nordic. Because the continuation war was about supporting Nazi Germany in its invasion of the USSR.
@Swedish and Nordic. Finland wouldn't be even close what it is today if it wasn't 700 years a part of Sweden. Not an occupied territory of Sweden like all too many history-blind "patriots" are spinning year after year, but one of the original founding "brothers" of the Sweden we know today. It isn't that long ago when swedish was the first language of almost 40% of the population of Finland. We can assume the percentage of those who understood or could spoke enough swedish to get by with it in their everyday contacts had then been about 65-70%. Sweden and swedish language (along with the academic latin and greek, and german) were Finland's umbilical cord to Europe, it's history, art, culture, economics, science, philosophy, political ideas, and religion. And we learned to use fork and knife too. The sea between the countries didn't divide us, but on the contrary served as a glue to the western and eastern halves of Sweden, aka Finland.
Is there any beneficial aspects in the swedish culture today which come from Finland and Finland alone? There is, indeed. One of the most important contributions Finland is clearly responsible is that we finns taught swedes how to play ice hockey. There's been gradual progress the last decades in Sweden especially in ice hockey and it's interesting to see how Sweden will get by in the ongoing championships in Finland. Häja Sverige. Remember silver medal isn't that bad, and it's never a reason to be ashamed of to lose in the finals to Finland.
I remember that in Max Manus' memoars he writes about fighting in the winter war, for it to end and as he and many other Norwegian volunteers arrive back in norway are told they've been invaded and "given up without a fight" which isn't true, but supposedly what his group was told
Imagine how defeating that would feel, fighting another country's war to lose it, and return home to an desperate, un-winnable situation there
Yes.
To be fair, Finland remained independent so Winter War was not lost, despite what people may think and say. When the alternative is the complete destruction of your people, culture and homeland, even an a crushingly embarrassing peace is a victory.
@@XIIIphobos sounds like something Hamas or Hezbollah would say. But hey, that was how Ho Chi Minh won everytime. By losing every battle, and soaking up more damage than you deliver. Then just wait until he says F*** it, and goes home.
Let's not forget the mark Christopher Lee left on James Bond's cinematic history, playing the iconic Man with the Golden Gun, Francisco Scaramanga!
Didn’t he have three nipples or something similarly bizarre. Scaramanga that is, not Mr. Lee.
i think the more important part to remember is that he was the inspiration for the James Bond character :)
The idea of foreign fighters as unusual is a late 20th century ideal. From John Hawkwood fighting in Italy, to Scots James Spens, Patrick Ruthven, James King, Alexander Leslie serving in Sweden’s army, the Irish Wild Geese, Fredrick Townsend Ward, William Walker and his men to American’s volunteering for both WWs to African wars not to mention the Foreign Legions. Being a volunteer, hired soldier, mercenary, privateer has a long established and honorable career choice. Only in the last 40-50 years has it become looked down upon.
You have to be careful though… there’s a distinction between mercenaries and volunteers - it’s not a clear distinction, but it’s there. The number of mercenaries employed to wage wars has more or less constantly declined over time, volunteers is more modern phenomenon and has fluctuated, probably depending on perceived cause.
@@spartacus-olsson That is true. We would look at it more as mercenary if there was a large contingent of Americans fighting in a unit without Ukranians and getting more money than a regular soldier.
@lati long I think it was more toward the mid 60s and the conflicts in Africa. Soldiers from all over the world were paid to fight. Even the Cubans sent troops for their USSR masters. Then again there were Americans that weren't welcomed at home after Vietnam service. They could be from other countries as well. Remember Warren Zevon's Rolland the Headless Thompson Gunner has a basis in reality.
@@57WillysCJ don't forget the infamous Frenchie Bob Denard who even became prime minister in Comores for a short time.
Privateers were legally very grey even in era they were employed and notoriously undisciplined in their conduct. That means English privateers did attack English merchant ships just because it was easy target. There is also difference in volunteering to serve in foreign military (like French Foreign Legion or Ukraine's International Legion) and privately employed (hired by company) goon meant to terrorize locals to leave from lands to be mined by foreign company are completely different. There is quite big and clear difference between serving in military and gooning for company.
Thank you for your work! We, Ukrainians, are really grateful to all the help we get - it's vital for our survival
You guys should do an episode on Grupp Conny, my favorite Swedish resistance unit of WWII. Made up of veterans from the Spanish civil war and the Winter war, they fought against the germans in Norway and against german spies in Stockholm.
Excellent as always. Worth noting though that there were volunteers on both sides in the Spanish Civil War - the "Irish Brigade" were one such group, fighting for Franco against Communism, whilst many other Irishmen fought with the Republicans against Fascism. Strange old world....
Thanks Alan
Many Catholics from many countries volunteered and fought for Franco against Stalinism and Communism
It's certainly a stereotype, but the Irish really have been fighting in lots of other people's wars, from the gallowglasses, through Mad Mike Hoare to the present.
Same with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.
As a Finn, we will never forget the heroic volunteers who fought and bled for Finland's independence!
Mentioning how Brazil sent thousands of pounds of coffee to Finland makes me wonder if that helped kickstart the coffee craze in Finland still going on to this day. they are the largest coffee consumers in the world per capita. I don't know if their coffee consumption was a big thing back then as well
Naa it was already in high swing, it did probably help to keep the rampart addiction in bay
for a week at least!
A topical subject for me. A couple of days ago I finished reading George Orwell's "Homage to Catalonia" about his time spent fighting with the Govt forces in the Spanish Civil War. Another good book on the subject is "Some Still Live" by F. G. Tinker. He was an American fighter pilot who signed up to fly for the Govt forces during the Civil War. He scored 8 kills during his time there.
The so called Republicans and their Communist allies still lost
"I bet my waiter is a f*cking Fascist!"
-George Orwell, 1936
Finland: *is mentioned*
Finnish people: *SUOMI MAINITTU! TORILLE!*
Your statement that “states shouldn’t sanction their citizens volunteering for a foreign war” is a bit confusing. I know what you meant, but since in that context “sanction” could mean “allow” OR “punish”. English is a crazy language. Great vid as always.
Yeah took me a beat as well. English is... often odd.
It is okay for each individual to fight on the side they want, but I am fascinated that no one opposes inhumane sanctions. How will the fact that Ivan from Moscow cannot fly with his girlfriend to Paris or Michelle from Marseilles to St. Petersburg help end the conflict, a peaceful solution and a smaller number of victims? How will it help that the Russian tennis player is not participating in the tournament or that Sergei's company was seized in Germany?
Yet 40% of the NHL continue to be Russian hockey players. Interesting...
@@robbrown4621 Exactly what I want to say.
In the name of the rule of law, we bend the laws as it suits us, we make exceptions when it suits us. And it is so common, so common that no one talks about it, let alone opposes it.
We live in a sad world.
There is few good movies about that ”Tali-Ihantala” and ”Etulinjan Edessä” those have English subtitles. 🖖🇫🇮
Loved this video! I'm working on a video about Finnish soldiers in the American Civil War! On both sides aswell!
That would be an interesting video to watch, given how little talked topic it is. From what information ive found Online, there were several honorable mentions of specific Finnish people who participated in the conflict, arguably one of the most famous ones being a man by the name of "Otto Mauno Geers". Theres a small article about him in Wikipedia.
Great info, thanks for clarifying that.
Thanks for watching
Really liked the cutting back and forth between Indy and Spartacus
There's more where that came from.
This was a pretty good explanation on foreign fighters, they are certainly nothing new, ranging from the International Brigades during the Spanish Civil War to the Ukrainian Foreign Legion during the current Russian invasion of Ukraine. Interestingly, I didn't even know Christopher Lee had actually volunteered in the Winter War!
It's not certain if he ever was here, it's not documented but his suspected likeness is on one of the pictures taken in a Helsinki street..
Yes , but if you listen carefully. So when Spanish Republicans fought against fascism countries tried to prevent their citizens from joining the fight to aid against fascism. When the Winter war starts no such actions are taken and Indy omits a lot of pre war info : like the idea of greater Finland and one minor attempt of its implementation during Russian civil war.
The International Brigades fought against the fascists, though...
@@podemosurss8316 yes and France, Britain tried to prevent them from doing that
@@ivanmonahhov2314 In this case, the opposite is true: France and Britain and encouraging them and they're fighting with the fascists.
I wonder how many people watch WW1 or WW2 but straight up haven't found this gem of a channel yet. I love how thorough you are with periods you discuss. I've been supplementing my knowledge of the interwar years with B2W lately and it's been great. Thank you for giving us this content!
You'll be surprised the that original The Great War channel has also been releasing interwar content that explores the major events between 1919-23. They've already released roughly 7 hours worth of content about the Russian Civil War alone, with another 20 hours of various other obscure events, like the Italo-Turkish War, the Irish War of Independence and the Russo-Japanese War. They've also released a new channel called Real Time History that explores the Franco-Prussian War in a Week-by-week basis, the Battle of Iwo Jima in a day-to-day basis and the Battle of Borodino in their series about Napoleon's invasion of Russia.
@@extrahistory8956 Oh my god... I feel so stupid now, thank you SO much!
@@KytexEdits No need to feel down my friend. Just happy to spread the awareness about this underrated historical content. Plus, I'm happy to know that the original channel was left in good hands.
Finlands sak er vår sak.
6:32 Petrograd (or modern Saint-Petersbug) has never been a part of Finland or taken by Finnish or US forces. Maybe it is different place, but I could not find it anywhere, so werify your sourses, please.
An consistently outstanding source for reliable and thought provoking information. TY !
Thank you very much for your support! We appreciate it!
You forgot to mention that the Swedish troops in the winter war were operating in an own brigade, led by Swedish officers and NCOs.
Hi Indy and Sparty
This series is wonderful, comparing history old and new into context.
This will create awareness.
Thanks for the episode
Thanks very much
Christopher Lee not being the bad guy for once lol
"Dracula to the older among us, Count Doku and Saruman to the |younger|." I think you meant to say for the still old, but not quite as old people.
I've been looking forward to this.
Surprised and happy to see you guys pull several points from my Winter War article! And there it is, in the bibliography, nice indeed :) Just one tiny correction - the two British organizations existed at the same time but for different purposes: Finnish Fund was gathering money for humanitarian help and the only volunteers they sent were the Quaker fireman unit sent to help civil defence in Helsinki. The Finnish Aid Bureau was created to recruit and organize foreign volunteers and had its own fundraising activity to pay the wages of the volunteers so that the Finns wouldn't be financially burdened by accepting them.
Thanks for the clarification @Gar Funkel!
About 5% of Finns are Swedish speaking. There are Swedish speaking units. So the language barrier is not meaningful.
Everybody can speak english also.
Swedish is the second official language in Finland.
@@blackcoffeebeans6100 Speaking English was not common 1939 which is the time they are talking about.
Another fantastic show
I’m a simple man. I see Christopher lee, I click watch.
Indy, is that a Pal Zileri tie? I have one, tied too with the windsor, that has the same exact pattern and color schemes, although the dominant color is slightly more bluer. The middle color running through the stripes is dark brown and white in between.
Davy Crockett adored this presentation...
Would be interesting to do another "on the other side" comparison with foreign fighters in the (modern) Russian Army- Sort of like seeing the Spanish Blue Division or the Free Arab Legion serving under the Germans. Just to give the topic of foreign fighters/mercenaries a bit more nuance.
The problem with that is that there isn't much information on foreign fighters fighting for Russia. There are apparently some Syrians and Libyans, but we don't know too much about them other than they got slaughtered at Aviidka. There is a lot about the Wagner Group, but they are mercenaries and not volunteers.
Great episode! If anyone's interested in foreign fighters throughout history, I can not recommend looking into Canadian and American history enough. The two nations have an unofficial tradition of volunteering to fight in the other's army dating back to at least the American Civil War, wherein approximately 33-55 thousand British North Americans volunteered to fight (mostly) in the Union Army. As a grad student, I myself researched the phenomena extensively with the American phase of the Vietnam War (1964-1973), where around 40000 Canadians served in American forces. The cultural consciousness of foreign volunteers, including their social background and ultimate reasons for fighting, is endlessly fascinating to me, and I'm glad TimeGhost decided to cover the topic!
Thanks dragonviruz
An interesting bit of trivia related to that is that the guy who would later compose the Canadian national anthem, Calixa Lavallée, was a French-Canadian who volunteered for the U.S. Army during the American civil war. He served as a musician with the 4th Rhode Island infantry regiment.
Between 25% to 33% of the U.S. Army during the American civil war was foreign born, mainly Germans and Irish, though in most cases (unlike Calixa) these were immigrants who were permanent residents in the U.S. before the conflict. Confederate propaganda at the time, and Lost Causers today, try to portray them as foreign mercenaries or "Hessians," but the reality was that most were no different than native born soldiers.
Swedish volunteers were very effective. Swedish were mostly put to defend the north and therefore less Finnish troops were needed for essentially guard duty up north and they coud take part in the bigger fighting that was going on in south east Finland were troops were needed.
has the Millennium Falcon always been on Spartacus' bookcase?
Christopher Lee was delayed while he waited for delivery of his golden gun.
It's fascinating that there even are Japanese and Taiwanese fighting for Ukraine currently
The foreign fighters in Finland 1939-40 and in Ukraine 2022 are helping a nation defend itself against an armed ivasion, per the article 41 of the United Nations Charter.
It makes sense that Ukraine is limiting foreign enlistment to those that can demonstrate they have prior military service with combat. With the war being on their territory and requiring the use of advanced weapons and systems. Even if new volunteers are not acquainted with the specific systems that Ukraine is employing, if they're already generally trained to operate in a unit and experienced in combat then training on specific systems isn't much different than any other soldier requires as systems change.
Apparently there was an issue, at least early on, of foreign volunteers showing up who had lots of enthusiasm but zero practical experience. I don't know why anyone without military training or experience would try to volunteer as a soldier. If accepted they'd just be a hinderance to whichever unit got saddled with them and would be likely to get themselves, and possibly others, killed.
The amateurs would be better off volunteering for humanitarian work.
But one big dif in modern Ukraine volunteers is that many are not 'naive adventurers' as these kind of mid-tier conflicts attract, but battle-hardened soldiers, a lot of them either on some kind of leave or recently retired, very aggressive on the battlefield, and many with special operations or infantry experience. That has given them a much greater impact than their size would suggest, and I have seen a number of news articles suggesting they have been highly effective. CivDiv's channel here on UA-cam is an example. He's a former US Marine that has also fought independently with the Kurds in northern Iraq.
Very basic but still classy tie Indy! 3/5
Thanks Gianni
Thanks for the video. I couldn't help but notice the battle going on in the background...Indy on Team Trek with a picture of Kirk and Spock, Sparty with a model of the Millennium Falcon on the bookshelf.
Thank you John
Every war has been fought with the help of foreign fighters. The French fought in our revolutionary war, Germans fought in Spain, the Gorkhas fought for England etc.
5:29 Finlands sak är vår "Finlands cause is ours". The motto still stands today as swedes agree that a finnish ascension to nato is also a swedish one.
I know one instance of a group of foreign volunteers who were quite decisive in the spansih civil war. At the start of the war in 1936, the northern front in the basque country was extremely vulnerable because a lack of equipment. The advance of rebels was only stoped at Intxorta thanks to the last minute arrival of some Czech rifles (before that, the basque army had to rely on hunting weapons), but was decisively helped by 4 belgians who managed to bring a heavy machinegun, which weas one of the few ones present in the entire front.
Its also important to note, this happened before the stablishment of the International Brigades.
BTW, unlike the Finns, spanish republicans didn'0t have any problem on accepting Germans (Thälmann Battalion) and Italians (XII International Brigade) as volunteers.
Wow! The more things change the more they remain exactly the same. It may be a different time and place but it is as if nothing ever really ended.
talking about forign fighters. the march of the french foreign legion, pretty much set by the 1870 war with prussia, , le boudin, curse the belgians as a pain in the A__ becasue their king asked france to keep them out of thr fighting so it didn't look like belgium was supporting france in the wear. the song praises the swiss, alcaians and loraine people who stood by france and then promptly disses the belgians as a pain.
Great job Indy and Spartacus! I think talking about the Russo-Finnish conflicts are important because of Putin’s threats to Finland and Sweden if they choose to apply for NATO membership
Nato belongs in a museum!
@@jackdoyle7453 not until Russia ceases agression towards it's neighbours on all levels.
@@jackdoyle7453 Why do you think that? In my opinion with Putin's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine it is more relevant than ever.
@@Anonymous-qw I mean it certainly is a point that should be debated, if nato really is a worthwhile alliance, particularly given the human rights records of some its members. However, I was making a joke based on the op's user name.
Those threats are almost certainly just that - threats.
For example Russia already has nuclear missiles in Kaliningrad, Leningrad Oblast and Murmansk, so the threats to reposition them to Kaliningrad, Leningrad Oblast and Murmansk is like threatening to do nothing. Not to mention it would make little sense to position them there anyway, as ideally you would want them far enough that the enemy can't target your launch sites.
Christopher Lee will forever be Lord Summerisle to me
good episode...lots of thoughts for 2022 ...but maybe later
Is Sparty screaming that loud or does he have a phenomenal microphone? Either way great video guys!
Thanks TheBigM
I have always been proud of the fact that my maternal grandfather " ran guns to Spain " during their civil war. After viewinfg the Orson Welles - Ernest Hemmingway documentary THE SPANISH EARTH he stole rifles and ammunition from the local National Guard armoury. These items were then passed on to a network in Windsor Ontario for shipment on to the Spanish Republicans. I am quite sure that if he had been single he would have gone to Spain with rifles
Thanks for sharing about your grandfather, very interesting story he must have had.
Very interesting.
Hooray, it's back 😀
Often overlooked has been the large number of Canadians (upwards to 40,000) who volunteered to fight for America in the Vietnam war.
Couldn't had chosen a worst cause to die for.
There's an error in the subtitles at 5:25 when anti-authoritarianism has been transcribed as anticommunism
Thanks Daniel, it should be fixed now.
As a former foriegn volunteer in Burma this is a hot button topic for me. My reading of LOAC is that if you are in uniform, bearing arms openly and enrolled in regularized forces than you are entitled to the protections (and duties) of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.
That is absolutely correct, those protections are explicitly extended to foreign fighters as well, but you can still be prosecuted by your own country, another country, or the international courts at The Hague for illegally fighting in a war that your home country was/is not a belligerent to. The likelihood that you will be is very low as long as you don’t commit war crimes.
During the French Revolution period and Wars of the Xth (there were like 8, and I forget which one this was) Coalition the French, the Revolutionary French came here to the States and started standing up units of privateers along the coast, which lead to a lot of pretty interesting historical precedents that I think would have gone on to effect some US policy on the matter in the early 20th century, too. I highly recommend those interested look in to it. :)
Interestingly in Yugoslavian civil war Ukrainians and Russians together with other orthodox nationalities volunteered for Serbs, Mujahedeens and other muslim groups for Bosniaks and fascists and those directly recruited from western Governments for Croats.
One of the things I enjoy most is seeing their belief that ` the internet ` is a big part of the ` big picture ` as relates to what happens within and about the drivers for ` B p ` events.
Very cool episode! I swear, you guys think of everything that needs covering and then do an awesome job covering it.
Important point that you can't simplify the motivations of foreign fighters into a one-dimensional ideology. Volunteers may fight the same cause through opposing sides, or fight on the same side for opposing causes.
During WW1 there were Italian volunteers who signed up to fight for France in the Garibaldi brigade, believing it was an ideological clash between the democratic Englightenment values of the French Republic versus the monarchist tyranny of the Central Powers. But then after the war, you had at least one left-wing nationalist Corsican war veteran travel to participate in the Irish war of independence from Britain. For one set of Italians, France and Britain were the champions of democratic values, yet for another set, they were colonial oppressor states. How this was interpreted depended on what one thought the war was all about.
Similarly, in the Spanish Civil War the Comintern organisers of the International Brigades didn't always understand the cultural, ethnic and historical tensions between the diverse group of volunteers they managed. The UK and Irish volunteers were therefore placed into a shared brigade. This resulted in a mutiny, when the Irishtroops and their British commanding office discovered that, twenty years earlier, they had fought on opposing sides of the Irish war of independence: the officer had been a 'Black and Tan' - part of the counterinsurgency paramilitary sent by Britain to repress the Irish independence movement. For the Irish volunteers, who largely came from Sinn Féin backgrounds, fascism meant militaristic monarchists. For the British, it was the other way round - Sinn Féin and the IRA, being nationalist paramilitaries, appeared to be themselves fascist. Both sides had gone to Spain to fight fascists, only to end up fighting alongside them (as each side imagined it).
Former U.S Marine Gentlemen, never an Ex-Marine! Semipermanent Fi. Thanks with respect.
👍🏼
Cancel received a Bad-Conduct Discharge from the Corps. So Ex-Marine definitely applies.
@@dynasty0019 Did he? I wasn't aware, and if he did, then it does. But do you have a source?
@@dynasty0019
I didn’t know that, then if He was then He’s a waste of time! With respect 🫡
Yet another fantastic episode most enjoyable indeed! And hats off to the late Great Sir Christopher Lee .
Thank you Frank!
.. Interested in how the "AMERICAN Volunteer Group" (Flying Tigers) factor into this topic, (as well as the Americans that got involved in the war through Canada).
Caught the last few minutes. As always, Brothers and Sisters of the Time Ghost Machine: BRAVO!!!
The Spanish civil war was really the start of modern international volunteering, the later winter war solidified it, and wars like Afghanistan and Syria, produced the modern context of foreign volunteering for military reasons.
Actually, three Danish pilots were killed in air combat over Finland in The Winter War, and one from the volunteer battalion was fatally wounded when Soviet planes bombed their base. I have only been able to find the name of the latter; Mathias Madsen.
Edit; many Danish volunteers later joined either the Resistance (in fact one of the major groups was formed by volunteers), or joined Frikorps Danmark- most famously Schalburg. At least one stayed in Finnish service and fell in The Continuation War.
I am thinking the volunteer from Trinidad did not speak the language or snow skied‽ It does not surprise me where my people would pop up.....We seem to get around.
0:33 *"...a guy in Moscow",* that *"guy"* was the grandfather to an old friend of mine, a Turkish woman of Georgian origin. Not until she moved to Denmark did she come to know the atrocities her grandfather Joseph committed. When she knew him as child he was just a loving and caring nice old granddad. Yes, "that" *Stalin* it was.
Speaking as a Finn i would say that as concerning the Swedish volunteers the language barrier was not great at all since we have a schooling system ever since our independence of learning the two languages that are spoken officially in Finland Finnish and Swedish and those who speak mainly Swedish live on the coastal areas we refer to them as the Finnish Swedes and from times past they have always formed the leading cadre of the officer class in the army belonging of old to the nobilety because of old about 1000 years ago the Swedes took Finland and originally we were one country with Sweden only we being the eastern province and 300 hundred years ago the Russians invaded and we were the grand Duchy of the Russian empire until our war of independance in 1917 when we won our independence keep up the good work enjoy the episodes Tom...
I noticed those photos on the wall, behind Indy. One, near his left shoulder looks like Leonard Nimoy and Bill Shatner, in their Star Trek uniforms. [or, is it Chris Pine and Zach Quinto? I am not sure which]
It's Nimoy and Shatner.
Thank you for this interesting look at foreign fighters in conflicts zones.
At the beginning of the current situation. Ukraine stated that it would not accept any foreign volunteers who did not have combat experience.
Whether they stuck with this stipulation or not, I do not know.
From what i know so far this statment stands. As far as i know we still don't have heavy weapons to arm ourselfs.
What about the German-American dual nationals, who went back to fight for the “Fatherland” when hostilities started in September ‘39, fought the Poles, Brits, and French. Did they have to swear an oath to Germany, or did the Germans sort of turn them loose to just fight against their enemies without any kind of allegiance documentation? Since the US was a neutral nation at the time, I guess it was kind of a murky situation. But when the US entered the war, what happened to these guys............instantaneous POWs or American traitors? Somewhat off topic, but two motion pictures Stalag 17 and Band of Brothers broached this topic, so I’ve always wondered about this.
The incident in the TV series Band of Brothers where American soldiers encounter at least one American among a group of SS PoWs, who are later executed by one of the American officers, was alleged to have occurred by at least one of the surviving veterans the series was based on. If it happened it never left an official paper trail for historians, however.
A better documented and interesting case is that of Nobuaki "Warren" Iwatake, an American of Japanese descent that had been born in Hawaii, but was living with relatives in Japan when war broke out with the United States. He ended up drafted into the Japanese Army. He was stationed on Chichi Jima and witnessed the downing of a plane piloted by future U.S. president George H.W. Bush, and was assigned to guard another downed U.S. pilot named Warren Earl Vaughn, who had been captured. During that time the two struck up a friendship. Unfortunately later Japanese officers took Vaughn away, and executed him, but Iwatake adopted the name Warren as his own in remembrance. After the war he worked as a translator in the U.S. embassy in Tokyo, met Bush, & also returned to live in Hawaii.
4:25 Lee will always be Ansem the Wise to me. RIP
I find it rather funny how Christopher Lee - the actor of Saruman - volunteered to fight against the Soviet Union in 1939 and now Ian McKellen - the actor of Gandalf - visited Ukraine and voiced his support.
It's like they are doing the same thing, but still somehow managing to be the polar opposites of each other even outside the screen.
Attack of the Clones was 20 years ago. Even Count Dooku is for the older amongst us. :sob:
You give the impression that the intended help from Britain in the form of actual troops was more than just a bluff and that those troops would have helped the Finns fighting the Russians. In Sweden there was this feeling (at least after the war) that those troops would have just been used to cut the Swedish iron ore business with Germany.
Well Churchill did not claim he was "leading on Finland", this for those who can do the connection.
I think you might need to look up the word “consider” ;-)
@@spartacus-olsson , please consider the fact I am not a thought reader.
Var det något jag sade.
@@hurri7720 I’m just saying we used the word _consider_ sending troops. The essential point here made being the Swedish reaction as evidence of the firmness of the Swedish position. If the British and French considerations were honest or not is a whole other issue, one that can’t be explored in passing to any accuracy.
@@spartacus-olsson , yes and that is why I wrote "you give the impression".
Small countries were kicked around by bigger countries, Sweden too, not firm enough to prevent the Germans passing through the country at will or ending the iro ore trade to Germany.
We in Finland remember the Swedish help we got in many different ways.
Wait just a minute! You’re telling me, Christopher lee, volunteered to fight the soviets during the Finnish Soviet war??? Holy sheet
you guys missed that mamy finns talk swedish and somewhat vice versa. And they can do simple jobs at war so host could send it men to the fighting.
I did a paper in high school on the Spanish civil war, and at the start Spain had the worlds 4th largest gold reserve if I remember correctly. And for all the help the soviets sent, they received most of Spain’s gold reserves. Some went to Germany but I wanna say the Soviets got a lot of it. Can anyone speak on that?
Maybe an episode that broadly covers all the participants of the war, their reported gold supply-reserves, and the aftermath of the conflicts?
Hey, not a bad idea!
As you can see from our WW2 channel, we’re pretty focused on DDAY (and ww2 chronological coverage in general) for now, but I’ll certainly put a note in and perhaps cover this on our Twitter as well!
-Will
Willy Cance'l family were originally from Puerto Rico and New York and moved like many to the south USA.
11:41 finally someone who read Daniel Kahneman.
Before Finland was a Tsarist dominion, it was part of Sweden.
Caught last few minutes live. I vote Ties over Ascorts
You should do a biography special of Christopher Lee. His remark to Peter Jackson that he knew what it sounds like to stab someone, but wasn't allowed to say how gives a good view of his personality.
Yeah he was a massive liar.
It more like Sir Lee disagreeing on grounds of "man being stabbed doesn't make that sound" and when Jackson questioned Lee retorted with "trust me, I know how it sounds" and that was it.
Lee lied about his wartime service. He wasn't a member of any special forces. He didn't hunt down Nazis after the war. He was an RAF liaison officer.
The map is wrong! Finland has the borders of 1940 Moscow peace treaty AFTER Winter war.
You should always use the FINLAND map 1939 when beginining before the Winter war.
If you don't, none of it makes any sense.
@Samuli Glöersen Ah yes the map at 1:26 does seem to show the borders of Finland as post winter-war, we will see if we can get it fixed
@lati long While it may fit in to a certain context I don't think we will be using maps which propagate aggressive ambitions against what were at the time sovereign nations
You guys should do a special on Christopher Lee
Why? He lied about almost all of his service. He was "just" an RAF liaison officer. He did almost nothing that he claimed he did. He was not a member of any special forces. He didn't hunt Nazis after the war.
Not only Spain, Finland and the Ukraine. Many thousands of Irish men and women joined the UK armed services during 1939-1945 or worked in its war industries, all the while Ireland was scrupulously and pointedly neutral. The Irish Government officially and legally discriminated against these men and women when they returned to Ireland after the war.
If we enlist in the Time Ghost Army, will we be sent to the front before the series is over? Will the leaders speak our language? Do we need to know how to ski or to shoot a rifle? Do we need to know what we're getting into? Do we have to pledge allegiance to the leaders?
@Tim McDaniel we have no prerequisites apart from a love of history, beyond that we will give you all the training you need! 😉
Intresting. Hungarians. volunteered. I agree possible propganda and language similarities helped first generation immigrants volunteer.
"Marine veteran who died fighting in Ukraine was a volunteer, not a private contractor, say his fellow fighters" - Business Insider is reporting that the information about Joseph Cancel working for a PMC in Ukraine was incorrect.
I have no idea what you mean. Aren't private contractors also volunteers?
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe technically I think they are mercenaries
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe contractor is just a fancy name for mercenary.
contractors like mercenaries are hired under atypical conditions in regard to wage, regulations and jobs.
Volunteers normally join the army with the standard wages, rules and similar to what citizens got.
@@thomasbaagaard Mercenary is not nessarily a bad thing.
From the sound of it he told his family he was joining a PMC, hence the confusion, but he did not and was serving in a regular Ukrainian army unit.
How does the American Volunteer Group (the Flying Tigers) fit in this. I thought the American government was pretty active in getting them organized.
They were, but that was (I think) almost a year, year and a half later.
1939 : you really shouldn't go fight for Finland, but we can't stop you.
1941 : if you want to go fight for China take some airplanes.
And later on in Nam and Korea plenty of advisors were shooting down planes from the other superpower. I think the point they are making is that if you just let one of your armies just volunteer with their tanks planes and arty while not declaring war it's not allowed. You need to pretend that your not fighting.