We're back in Poland, 18 years before WW2 to explore some of the conflicts that will be used by Nazi Germany and the USSR as a pretext to invade Poland in September 1939. Many thanks to our TimeGhost Army member from Poland, Kamil Szadkowski who helped Spartacus write this episode - a cooperation thats started here on the channel with a comment by Kamil that led to a long, in some instances a bit heated debate between Kamil and Spartacus about the interpretation of Polish history. Without Kamil's balanced input this episode would only been half as comprehensive! Moments like that is why we love you all and why we love making history together with you! *ALSO, READ OUR RULES:* RULES OF CONDUCT STAY CIVIL AND POLITE we will delete any comments with personal insults, or attacks. AVOID PARTISAN POLITICS AS FAR AS YOU CAN we reserve the right to cut off vitriolic debates. HATE SPEECH IN ANY DIRECTION will lead to a ban. RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, OR SLAMMING OF MINORITIES will lead to an immediate ban. PARTISAN REVISIONISM, ESPECIALLY HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR DENIAL will lead to an immediate ban. Thanks for reading, and now.... let’s make history!
TimeGhost History talk about the Finnish civil war please I understand it is not part of the inter war years but please talk about the Finnish civil war and the Murmansk legion and such
el B, the week after next we have a monster 27 minute episode about the Greco Turkish War and the Turkish War of Independence coming out - obviously Kemal Atatürk is one of the main characters.
@@podemosurss8316 And eventually someone gets the bright idea to just cut the knot, which will surely make things less complicated and easier to solve.
Ok, so I have a question: If we are talking that Polish "movement" that is presented here as somrthing new then what about Kosciuszko uprising what about 3rd May constitution? What about: "A niechaj narodowie wżdy postronni znają, iż Polacy nie gęsi, iż swój język mają." in Eng: "Let it by all and sundry foreign nations be known that Poles speak not Anserine but a tongue of their own." That's from XVI century and Mikołaj Rej is already writing about "nation"
@Jim lastname the Jews & Germans were saying that out (Polish) white eagle is a goose. So to offend us even more, .....speak anserine ( speak like goose).
Two of my great grandfathers fought in the Silesian Uprisings, and one of them was actually a founding member of the "Sokół" sport associacion in Katowice/Kattowitz. They were both murdered by the NKVD in 1940.
@khvaif kgsaiuf He (Franciszek Kost) was a police officer during the interwar period and in 1939 he was pulling back to the east alongside the Polish Army, where I assume he was captured by the Russians. The other grandfather (Józef Niwiński) was a deputy director of the basalt quarry in Janowa Dolina, he was mobilized as an officer of the reserve but his unit was overrun by the Red Army before it was even fully formed. His wife along with their three children, all below the age of 10 with the youngest being 1 year old, were deported to Kazakstan on april 13th 1940, the same day that he was murdered. Ironicaly that deportation and four years of struggling to survive in a dugout on the steppe, may have saved their lives as almost all of the Poles that stayed in Janowa Dolina (about 600 people) were massacred by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in 1943. Out of the two remaining great grandfathers, one was a tank commander in Africa and Italy (Polish II Corps) while the other was a member of the underground in occupied Poland (he and his family also took in a Jewish girl that was earlier smuggled out of the Warsaw Ghetto by the ressistance). So yeah, just a regular Polish experience from the first half of the 20th century...
Westerners like to associate "rape and pillage" with fancy vikings, but we (not only Poles, but so many other nations here) had grandparents who have seen Red Army and NKVD in action... Some lived to tell the tale (and being persecuted for it in "free" post-war Poland), some did not. May all of them rest in glorious peace.
@Dominik Kost - Sorry to learn of the murder of two of your great-grandfathers by the NKVD. It is a testimony to the strength and resilience of the Poles that any of them survived being invaded, occupied, dismembered, and savaged by two land sharks, Nazi Germany and the communist Soviet Union.
To complicate the name thing even further. Although in the west Poland from the Early Modern Era is usually referred to as either simply Poland, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or just Poland-Lithuania (German: Polen-Litauen). However, the full official name of the Union was (with some possible alternations) Serenissima Res Publica Coronae Regni Poloniae Magnique Ducatus Lithuaniae which translates to: the Most Serene Republic of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Quite a lengthy name I know. The citizens of Poland at the time were commonly referring to their homeland as "Rzeczpospolita" which literally means Republic. (The word is a combination of two words Recz - thing and pospolite - common so basically a mirror of Latin - Res Publica). The word itself quickly changed its original meaning and become an alternative name for a Polish state used to this day. The term started to see widespread use in the XVI century but it was already sporadically used 200 years earlier. Piłsudski and his government established what is known as "II Rzeczpospolita" - a Second Republic. Now you know what he did there ;)
Besides, there is a common mismatch in modern and old names. As there used to be commonwealth of Poloniae and Lituaniae (which in tern used to be called Great Dutchy of Litwa, Rus and Zhemaitiya) More or less, references are as follows: Old naming - modern naming Poland - Poland (though Poland was applied to commonwealth as a whole by foreigners - same as whole of USSR used to be called "Russia" (Turkmen and Estonians all under one name) Rus - Ukraine Litwa - Belarus Zhemaitiya - Lithuania And of course it all existed before such things as nations, so for modern above mentioned countries Commonwealth is like Charlemagne's empire for modern France, Germany and Italy
@@SK_2521 Stop spreading this idiotic Belarusian propaganda. Belarus is not a successor of Lithuania (Litwa) and historically was only treated as the province of the Duchy.
@@SK_2521 Depends on the time period. Suffice to say that they were first and foremost printed in Polish and then maybe but not always in Ruthenian. However, it won't change the fact that all of the upper class (nobility) and most of the town's folk were speaking Polish. The Ruthenian speaking population was mostly peasants that didn't have any political or national affiliation.
Damn, you guys do a good job at explaining this. As an American this is the first time I've ever heard any of this in depth. In my highschool world history course, the only time I've ever heard of Poland was from the 1939 invasion and that was it. In college I took the same course and it was almost the same thing ( the only difference is that there was a mention about to the Commonwealth), unless you took a course was specially designed for European history. Awesome work guys!
I'm from Belgium and was unaware of at least half of this. I knew bits and pieces like the plebiscite in Upper Silesia and that the Polish eastern frontier was due to wars after the Russian Civil War. But this video helped me get a much broader picture of how it all was related. I knew that Pilsudski played a very large role in both establishing Poland and its eastern border. I've seen sculptures of him and know he is revered to by Polish to this day. He is actually an example of a national hero for the Poles but was born in ... Wilna as he would call it (Vilnius, capital of Lithuania and city he added to Poland). Just like Mustapha Kemal, father of all Turks who was born in Saloniki, they were born in a very different world than the one they helped to change.
Not really. Those who lived in Vilnius called themselves LITHUANIAN but spoke only Polish and preferred Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth instead of Lithuania with foreign to them Lithuanian language as the only one. Piłsudski always considered himself Lithuanian and Lithuanian only. First president of Poland Narutowicz had a brother who most likely wrote the Lithuanian declaration of independence (Taryba of February 1918). Families were divided with brothers and cousins preferring Rzeczpospolita side and other brothers and cousins preferring Lithuanian Republic side. Don't forget, the new forged Lithuanian elite spoke only Polish and had to learn Lithuanian from the ground up. Yes, Lithuanians dominated Polish politics then and it was them who kept the Lithuanian Republic away. I'm Polish, descendant of Vilnius Lithuanians who left in 1945 preferring the Polish Crown territories over USSR.
Well, Winston Churchill (being as arrogant and judging as Churchill usually is) used to say: "When the war of the giants is over the wars of the pygmies will begin."
The thing is, the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire, German empire and Russia at the same time led to instability. In english, the law was remowed so everyone took as much as could.
it did in the way that main fighting sides stoped, but after Germany and Austrian empire on the wrong side as a losers all other eastern nation started to establish themselves again
One funny thing about the referendum in Upper Silesia - the German headquaters was situated in Katowice, which went to Poland and the Polish headquaters was situated in Bytom, which went to Germany.
In my opinion it is covered quite frequently, there is another video dealing entirely with the Polish Soviet War in this channel. Many other channels have covered it too.
11:00 well, Silesia is its own complicated thing. It's even a debate weather the (slavic) Silesian is a dialect or a language in its own right. It's further complicated by the fact that the german dialect that was (and is by a small minority still) spoken in this region is also called Silesian. And to make things worse, it gets more confusing if you take the czech part of Silesia into account. I highly recommend reading about the history of Silesia, it is really worth it.
This is my favorite video so far The absurd complexity of the polish-Lithuanian war is fascinating What are some good books where I can read more about it
I'd also recommend "The Reconstruction of Nations. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999" by Timothy Snyder. It might not be much in the aspect of military history, but it excellenty explains the whole political and cultural aspects of this conflict and its background.
Very well done! In grad school I was a GA for a Polish-American professor and learned all this (and more) from him. So glad you’re making this important info accessible to the wider public. Great job!!
Pavel Bermondt-Avalov had an army that was created by the Germans from Russian POW's from WW 1. The went under different names, the West Russian Volunteer Army and also the Bermontians. They had a kind of double agenda. They wanted to support the White cause for the Russian Civil War but also restoring German rule in the Baltics. At the end, the Germans created this army. The Bermontians fought against Latvian and Lithuanian independence fighters. They lived of the land what made them very unpopular to begin with. The fight with the Lithuanians was considered as one of the Lithuanian Wars of Independence (there were two more). Again, sources vary as this video puts out. I find this stuff very fascinating. Thanks for this clear explaination!
I really appreciate these but they're so hard to follow since there's so much detail and so many players. In episodes like this I think it would help to also tell the story from the royal familys points of view since they are the ones who are being upended by the growing people's movements - i.e. who they ally with and what becomes of them in the longer term. Thank you.
Thanks for your fascinating work. This part of Poland's history is so convoluted that I'll probably have to watch this at least one more time to understand it.
I am not sure if you take suggestion on this channel, but it would be hilarious to see some special like "top 5 most chaotic-and-confusing-trivial-detail-in-eastern-Europe-between-the-world-wars." I think the title should be confusing as well.
Great video! Some minor corrections, though: Firstly, not ALL of Posen was incorporated into Poland. Area around Schneidemühl/Piła was left in Germany. In fact, the Germans treated it as a whole province, hoping that they would regain the rest, naming it Grenzmark Posen-Westpreussen (literally Borderland Posen-West Prussia). Some people already adressed the Greater Poland Uprising, so I won't add anything to that. Secondly, as for the plebiscites. In case of the Eastern Prussian plebiscite, it took place in 1920, just when Poland was about to fall due to the Soviet invasion. Prussia was also near the front, so joining Poland at the time would just mean becoming part of a Soviet republic. No doubt no one wanted that. Unlike Silesia or even Posen, most of Polish speakers in East Prussia were agrarian, they mostly lived in villages. There were few pro-Polish urban Masurians, but it's just hard to convince largely uneducated public to do anything. Not to mention that said activists were often attacked by the Germans. Poland didn't really support or propagated the plebiscite, either, they were too focused on the war with Soviets and East Prussia had no real industry, again, unlike Silesia, and that's why they were more supportive there. In the end, Poles boycotted the East Prussian plebiscite and it failed spectacurally. We have to remember that most Masurians (ethnic Poles in Prussia) were Protestant, unlike majority Catholic Poles in Poland proper, and even before the plebiscite took place, the first thing they heard from Poles were the plans to "re-catholicize" them. So really, it's no wonder majority voted for Germany. The area was never part of Poland and Polish speakers, though they formed majority in the rural areas around the border with Poland (and some large minority in the cities as well), were pretty integrated into larger Prussian society. Most areas of Poland were even poorer than East Prussia itself. Even later, during the Crisis years, Germany remained much, much wealthier than Poland so economically, it made no sense to join Poland. But to be fair, some areas of Prussia WERE added to Poland. Some minor villages, mostly, along with very vital town of Soldau/Działdowo, through which the railroad went from Mazovia up to the seaport of Danzig. Sadly, it was the local Masurian population of Działdowo and nearby area that was subjected to the "recatholicization" policy and the locals were very bitter towards Polish government as a whole. Now, Silesia is a very densly populated, urban place, so many Silesians were more aware of the situation. I have no doubts that if East Prussia was as densly populated as Silesia, and Poles were more urbanized there, they would have taken up arms as well. But I can't speak much about Silesia, as East Prussia is more familiar to me (I am from the area, after all). But there is one more thing to mention: Silesia was very divided ethnically. And I mean: VERY. The plebiscite thing divided whole families. You had situations where one brother was very pro-Polish and thought of himself as a Pole, yet his brother would gladly wave the German flag and wanted Silesia to stay as a part of Germany. Similar situations happened in Posen or West Prussia/Pomerallia. Not to mention Lithuania, where there were two famous brothers: Gabriel and Stanisław, who supported two different nations. Gabriel Narutowicz was a president of Poland (who was famously shot by an assasin), while his brother Stanisław, or as Lithuanians would call him, Stanislovas Narutavičius, was one of the 20 signatories to sign the Declaration of Independence of Lithuania and was involved in Lithuanian politics. So we must remember that, regardless of what nations thought, the ethnic mix of peoples also caused problems for individuals, including splitting families apart.
A pretty - sorry to say - arrogant way to say being pro-Polish is a matter of education and Masurians were just too dumb to vote correctly. They were Lutherans and for centuries they were on the Prussian/German side against the catholic Poles in every single conflict. And regarding Dzialdowo, it wasn't part of the plebsicite area and the locals cheered the Soviet troops when the town was occuped in 1920 because they thought they would return to Germany after a Soviet victory.
BTW, there used to be suggestions regarding reformation of Commonwealth into Republic of the three nations - by establishing Ruthenia (modern Ukraine) as a third member of the union
@@SK_2521 you can accualy find a 3part national emblem(eagle,knight,archangel) at some cemeteries in Kraków. Usually at the graves from the 1863 uprising.
Indi... what else can I say? I was a history geek long before The Great War channel. Everyone thinks I know way too much about history now. I find myself using historical facts all the time. They'll be having a normal (boring) conversation, and I'll interject with, "You know why... bla bla bla (insert historical evidence here)." Not bragging, it usually doesn't work... but sometimes it does, then I just met a fellow amateur historian. Makes for a good night. I can shoot the shit with someone that is at least interested in history, if not more knowledged. I've gotten to speak to a few veterans as well. It's very humbling. Thanks for all great content. You've changed my life.
Hello Indy will you cover Mexico's interwar years? from wrapping up the revolution, the Cristero war and Plutarco Calles, to the rise of Lazaro Cardenas and the oil expropriation. its really a fascinating power struggle.
Na zdrowie! :) I love this episode! The only complain I have is that the Poles in Posen (Poznań) were definitely not crushed, in fact, the 1918-1919 Greater Poland Uprising was the most decisively successful in the long list of Polish uprisings, more so than the Silesian Uprisings. I understand you focused more on the later, as a more complicated subject (and you did an amazing job there). Well, actually there was another fully successful uprising - the 1806 Greater Poland Uprising. The people of Greater Poland (Wielkopolska) region are apparently a bit weird - actually staging uprisings in advantageous circumstances. Personally, as someone from the "Kongresówka", I think it's just cheating. ;)
Just so we're clear: when we say crushed we mean what they undertook to put it down, not that the Germans succeeded in crushing it, but they went in with force and it was pretty bloody - the insurgents were certainly making good headway (at a pretty steep cost though) but before there was a conclusive outcome, the delegates at the Paris Peace Conference concluded the Versailles Treaty and it was decided that Posen goes to Poland ending the insurgency. As we say in the episode this uprising greatly contributed to this decision. To put it in boxing terms; before the Polish insurgents could knock out the German police forces, the Germans were counted out and eliminated on a technical knockout. But, that's still a solid win ;-)
@@TimeGhost in fact from what I know it was orchestrated that way. They Poles counted on the Entante to step in, as they knew they woulden't be able to hold out indiefinitly against the Germans. There was close cooperation between the Polish delegation and the Army in Poznań. Also by coincidence my highschoolfriend's greatgreatfather was a staff officer during the uprising (sent unofficially from the regular army,if you can call it a regular army ;))
Yet they lost in 1848. We in Galicja on the other hand weren't so keen on uprisings aside from this one time in 1846 when we were crushed by ourselves we were just starving.
I am literally watching the same parts over and over again because it is so confusing and complicated, but slowly but surely I see what had happened. Just like the situation of Far East Asia after ww2, this was a huge black hole for me because I could not find one well put documentation of this. I finally have a picture, and the situation of the interwar period is further getting clearer. Amazing job guys... wow
I think the post-WWI mess in Eastern Europe is difficult to comprehend primarily because we naturally tend to underestimate the sheer magnitude of disorder that ruled across the whole region after 1918. The maps we're presented with and their finely drawn demarcation lines simply do not reflect reality, in which hundreds of thousands of demobilized troops became regular militias answering to nobody exept their own officers. When, say, a "Belarusian People's Republic" is formed, it doesn't really control all of the territory it claims and which most maps will usually assume it actually owns. Also, let's bear in mind that at this point in time, European borders are still largely just either signposts along roads and, across 99% of their length, just plain grass. A German-speaking Silesian in 1919 who had never once looked at a map in his life suddenly hears that his home town is now Poland whereas the last time he checked it was 100% Austria-and he is totally ready for anything to make it Austria again.
@@yarpen26 That and also the fact that unlike in Western Europe, where national borders were already estabilished and mostly divided people of different languages and nations, that was not so much the case in the east. So the German speaking Silesian in 1914 went to the market to buy some wheat from his Polish speaking neighbour, then went to the Jewish shoemaker to pick-up his repaired boots and after a long day went to have some beer in the local tavern run by some Czech family. As long as there was an external power above them all, the life was relatively peaceful, but once the old empires were gone, new groups started to claim territories based on arguments, that suited them most rather than current state of things (sometimes historical, sometimes language, sometimes "we just need this land because it has industry"). The divisions were also on class level, so e.g. in Silesia the burgeoisie and aristocracy was rather German and Poles were rather members of the working classes, whereby further in the east in Galicja the Poles were bourgeoisie and aristocracy living in cities like Lemberg and Ukrainians were rather living in the countryside. Regular people also didn't care much about politics that much (similar to today); they just wanted to live, work and rest after the exhaustion of the WWI and remained neutral. So there was no way to leave all parties happy when the right of nations to self-determine was given priority. Sadly enough this was achieved only after WW2 and under Communism, due to mass exterminations and forced migrations. (Although in 1920's there was a land-exchange program for landowners in new Poland in Germany, where people could exchange their old posessions for the similar ones in country of their choice, but that was just a small drop in an ocean). On the other hand - I heard once an anecdote from mid 1920's Poland where an old Highlander was brought to court in Nowy Targ for not paying some of the taxes. He then proceeded and took an old Austrian Penal code and tried to explain to the judge that he didn't do anything wrong, because the Kaiser said so in the code and the poor guy could not comprehend how on earth is there any other law that overrules the Austrian imperial law, that was there since forever. So I think that sums up how at least some people felt about the new order.
A bit late but I've been meaning to say, thank you for all the time and effort you all put into all of your channels. I can't contribute money to you but I at least "smash all those buttons"! The sheer magnitude of what you guys have done and are doing is inspirational to say the least and very much appreciated. I have learned so much, not only about the wars but so, so much about things never taught or even mentioned in school, undergrad or even many focused courses. You've even given me a respectful way to connect with both of my grandfathers and hear their stories. I would go on in my drunken praise until my fingers hurt so just let me say again, thank you. Thank you very much.
lovablesnowman during the war most definitely, but their part in the events causing and leading up to the war were more peripheral. Arguably every country had a part in the build up of conflicts, passively or actively - it was a world war after all... but our scope is limited.
@@TimeGhost oh I totally get you it's just it would be nice to hear more about these periphery events. Hungary and virtually all the smaller axis allies have almost totally been written out of the western historiography so it's always nice to hear more about them
I have just finished booking a trip to Upper Silesia, I hope to learn more there. Also, this is a great series I will continue to watch the rest great job.
Indy, thank you for this episode and maneuvering the minefield that is Poland's history relatively unscathed. But only relatively, I fear. That "ethnic Poles in Posen (...) rise up against Germany, but are violently crushed" (10'40") is counterfactual. Quite the reverse, between December 1918 and February 1919, a larger portion of Wielkopolska, or the Prussian Province of Posen, with majority Polish population, was successfully liberated, and almost exclusively by its own effort. The German Freikorps were kept at bay by the Polish militia, while minimal assistance was available from the regular Polish forces, which were only just being organized and were simultaneously engaged against the Ukrainians and the Bolsheviks. Polish historians like to point out that it was the only successful of the series of national revolts against the three occupying empires between 1794 and 1919.
My time watching C&Rsenal has me wondering how the heck an M1895 Colt-Browning “potato digger” MG ended up in the Polish-Bolshevik battles represented by the photo at 8:58. That’s far from the point of this series but I can’t help myself.This series covers such a fascinating and little-known series of events (at least in the U.S.), I love it! Thank you so much everyone who contributed!
Thanks a lot for the excellent history lessons (my favorite subject ever)! Moral of the history - some graves from the past must be left untouched, for nothing good comes out of it. Looks like many people haven't learned yet Shouts from Angola!
Great video! So glad these are being made because I didnt even know about the uprisings and the impact they had on WW2 years later. Thanks Indy and Team!
Yes, it is incredible content you guys create! Great job and big thanks for trying to present the history the as-middle-way-as possible :) Long live Indy and the crew!
Poland led the way in having a bicameral legislature that shared power with a constitutionally limited monarch. Sadly, this version of Poland was dismembered between three of the major royal houses of Central and Eastern Europe.
If you wondered why Stalin stopped the Red Army to allow the Nazis to crush the Warsaw Uprising, be sure to check out Indy (and the team's) coverage of the Polish-Soviet War when Stalin was a military commander. ua-cam.com/video/Equ7ua9b3Jo/v-deo.html
One thing about Poland is trying to understand how an ethnic group so ill-defined by natural boundaries can maintain cohesion. The key boundaries are the Baltic Sea to the north, some "German" rivers to the west, the Pripet Marshes and maybe the Carpathian Mountains to the south, and nothing really to the east. Almost all of the traditional "Poland" seems rather flat or rolling plains like the American Midwest. Seems like geography would allow the "Poles" to be pushed back and forth along this large, ill-defined area. It's like Kansans trying so hard to be different from Nebraskans.
@@amerigo88 I don't get one thing about this supposed "undefensible borders" of Poland. What does Germany have, that Poland lacks? The Alps? Alps may be higher than Carpathians, but they are mountains nevertheless. Germany has Rhine to the west, or even lacks any river at the border with, say, Netherlands. Eastern border of Germany is just the Oder river. How are those borders somehow more defensible than Polish ones?
Well, @@Vitalis94 to join in Samuel's point; that was exactly the problem that faced the northern and central European Holy Roman principalities in the The Schmalkaldic Wars, The 30 Years War, The Napoleonic Wars and a whole bunch of other conflicts - for several hundred year starting in the 1500s what we now know as Northern and Eastern Germany, Czechia, Poland, North Eastern Belgium, and southern Netherlands were killing fields for one army after the other that fell into this rolling, transport-friendly, and resource-rich landsacpe (or the princes fell onto of each other). Why did it start then? Well before the 16th century the geographic problem was not so grave - but by the end of the 1500s, as European population was growing again, for the first time since the Black Death, they led to an increase in farmland, and more road projects which opened up the landscape by successively clearing the deep forests of Northern Central Europe. And there was also the tool revolution that led to wars being fought by landscaping... but that's a story that is muuuuch longer (a fascinating one though).
12:19 - a similar story happened just before the outbreak of the Third Silesian Uprising: on the night of May 2nd/3rd 1921, Poles under the command of cpt Tadeusz Puszczyński, nom de guerre Konrad Wawelberg, blew up seven bridges on the Oder/Odra river, severing rail links between Upper Silesia and Germany, preventing the Germans from sending in reinforcements quick enough (one of these bridges, at Szczepanowice, is seen at 13:51). These sabotage units, known as "Wawelberg Destruction Group", would later serve as a mixture of shock troops and combat engineers.
You also forgot to mention the conflict between Czechoslovakia and Poland. When Poland was engaged with Soviets in 1920, Czechoslovakia seized disputed territory of Cieszyn Silesia committing atrocities against polish POW . The territory was return in 1938 when Poland participated in partition of Czechoslovakia.
Hmmm... go back and look again. We mention this, but as it has little to no impact on the greater scale we only mention it in one sentence and do not go into the details.
Except that territory was seized after the Poles started organizing elections to Polish parliament, which was against previous agreements that no one should govern the territory until there's common decision.
10:45 Poles in Poznań (first capital of Poland) rise up against the Germans in the Greater Poland Uprising and they crush the Germans not the other way around. They captured quite a lot of planes on Ławica prussian military airfield which if I remember correctly are later used to buzz above Frankfurt to scare off the Germans in a show of force or something like that. But im not sure about the Frankfurt part.
Indy: We have the music of your voice. There is no need for dramatic and distracting music in the background. Keep up the great work, just don't dilute the impact with the music. Frank
WHAT? The Posen uprising was victorious! It didn't get crushed, it liberated most of Greater Poland. I LIVE here, by the way, so don't tell me I don't know xD
Polish uprising in Poznan/Pozen was NOT crushed(!) - it was actually the only successful Polish uprising of several. Otherwise, it's a rather very good video with an excellent delivery by the speaker.
I assume you mean 11-11-18. But yes, various wars to determine the new borders continue until the end of Greco-Turkish war in 1922. And Arab and Kurdish uprisings are intermittent throughout the 1920s and 30s. And then from 1931 onwards you have Japanese war with China.
@@ZipperZbieracz I didn´t mean to take sides, just wanted to point out the fact that Lithuanians won´t be convinced so easily... The historiographies of both is pretty biased, getting crushed constantly by their neightbours leads to a very nationalistic-wise biased historiography...
@@klausbrinck2137 But this uprising had nothing to do with Lithuania. It was probably just a typo. Poles won the Uprising in Posen and Greater Poland. That's why this region became the part of Poland once again.
The Second Polish Republic evokes France's official name for herself, the French Republic. I wonder if there were any lingering memories of Polish support of France during the Napoleonic era in that? Regardless, what a great name for the newly re-established Poland and what a great episode! I had had no idea of how the Poles and Lithuanians had fought one another at that time. I've always thought of the time when they were united and fought together to stop Teutonic expansion at the (First) Battle of Tannenberg in 1410.
Well, because of the Union between Poland and Lithuania, Lithuanians kinda found themselves in a situation similar to Scots in the UK. Namely, their language and culture almost completely replaced by Polish. In the XIX century when Lithuanian national identity started to form they become hostile towards Poles seeing Polish culture as a threat to their identity. This trend continues to this day. Lithuanian historians even claim that Poland was occupying Lithuania between XVI to XVIII century which is, of course, total bullshit. As for the name of the reborn Polish state. Not really, the official name of Poland before the partitions was "Republic of Poland" already.
Hi Indy. You are introducing much confusion into this picture. The simple story is this: 1. In Oct-Nov 1918, the governments which are in place in Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine (both of them), are all organised by, or under the protection or with the consent or at least neutrality of German and Austro-Hungarian occupying forces. As such, they serve some of the interests of Germany, Austro-Hungary, whose aim is to keep their eastern frontier fragmented and weak, playing one nationality against another, and supporting the Bolsheviks, whom they helped install in Russia. 2. As Austro-Hungary falls apart, the carefully cultivated hostility between Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians is supported by organised action of the Austrian military, to incite conflict. Which is quite easy due to the fact that there is a multitude of political, national and religious factions. 3. As Germany recognises that the war is lost and prepares for the possible need to withdraw, they do exactly the same. They organise, or support spontaneously organised governments in Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania and incite conflict. At the same time, they agree with the Bolsheviks, that the Ober Ost evacuated by the victorious German army will be taken over by Bolsheviks. The locals, knowing what Bolshevik revolution look like organise local militias, which become parts of the respective armies of national countries. This way, the self defence of Wilno/Vilnius, a predominantly Polish inhabited capital of historic Lithuania, is incorporated into the Polish Army on Dec 29, 1918 and on Jan 4, 1919 it gets attacked by the Soviet Army and has to evacuate the city (after a week). Thus started the Polish Bolshevik war, not without a German incitement.
The artist is Tamara Łempicka. The left-hand painting is called 'Portrait of a Young Girl in a Green Dress' and the right-hand one is titled 'Portrait De Madame Boucard' :)
Great video! The only thing it misses to touch would be the Prometheism doctrine. Why? Because it is still very relevant in modern geopolitics as well. Prometheism was a doctrine which Piłsudski heavily believed in: after regaining Poland's independence it was in Polish national interest to help other ethnicities inside Russia to regain theirs and possibly sway them into a "Polish bloc" that could either guarantee enough military strength to defend against Moscow or at least create buffer satellite states that Poles could fight in instead of Poland itself. Of course peace of Riga and the partition of Ukraine in 1921 shattered any form of trust those ethnicities could have for Polish help. In modern times this idea is still very important for Polish geopolitics: heavy support for Georgia, active help in the NATO missions in the Baltics and most importantly - heavy involvement in supporting Ukraine's westward movements such as Orange Revolution or Euromaidan. Polish national interest dictates dissolution of Russia. Even in 2019 (despite hard Polish-Ukrainian past that becomes more and more relevant today) you can see the Prometheism doctrine being used in states like Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus (supporting pro-west movements) and by renewed Polish interest in the Intermarium economic bloc or even Visegrad group itself (V4).
This is really excellent. It demonstrates why the Wilsonian principle of national self-determination, while laudable in theory, was unworkable in practice. So many lives were uprooted or extinguished by misguided efforts to implement it.
Very interesting episode about the creation of Poland after WWI. I don't know much about the history of Eastern Europe. In am unrelated question: who is the woman in green in the painting over Indy's right shoulder?
I feel like we, or rather I'm, so used to looking at history in periods with beginnings and ends its so easy to forget or overlook just how....connected everything is. I know that might read incredibly dumb but its just how simple it is to gloss over that a key event in one period of history can directly if not indirectly be the cause of another event in a separate period and so on and so on.
As for the present capital of Lithuania, back in 1920 Vaaast majority of its inhabitants were ethnic Poles. Posen uprising was successful for Poles, contrary to what you say
6:00 : 1st step, 2nd should have been going full to west, south & north. Poland is even older, known as Lahistan, the land of Lah/Leh, several thousands years ago.
Great vd! I think if Poland hooked up with Lithuania, they would circle Prussia. Hitler might have second thoughts to attack Poland. Even after the German’s blitzkrieg, Poland might have a chance to push them back as German tanks wound get stuck in the east - very tough terrain. And perhaps France would send military aid to Poles...it would be a different story...unfortunately, the Sept 17 attack from the East ended this strategy.
We're back in Poland, 18 years before WW2 to explore some of the conflicts that will be used by Nazi Germany and the USSR as a pretext to invade Poland in September 1939. Many thanks to our TimeGhost Army member from Poland, Kamil Szadkowski who helped Spartacus write this episode - a cooperation thats started here on the channel with a comment by Kamil that led to a long, in some instances a bit heated debate between Kamil and Spartacus about the interpretation of Polish history. Without Kamil's balanced input this episode would only been half as comprehensive! Moments like that is why we love you all and why we love making history together with you! *ALSO, READ OUR RULES:*
RULES OF CONDUCT
STAY CIVIL AND POLITE we will delete any comments with personal insults, or attacks.
AVOID PARTISAN POLITICS AS FAR AS YOU CAN we reserve the right to cut off vitriolic debates.
HATE SPEECH IN ANY DIRECTION will lead to a ban.
RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, OR SLAMMING OF MINORITIES will lead to an immediate ban.
PARTISAN REVISIONISM, ESPECIALLY HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR DENIAL will lead to an immediate ban.
Thanks for reading, and now.... let’s make history!
Will you guys ever talk about Turkey under Kemal Mustafa Ataturk? How he changed the country to where it is now?
TimeGhost History talk about the Finnish civil war please I understand it is not part of the inter war years but please talk about the Finnish civil war and the Murmansk legion and such
Vivat Kamil! Vivat Spartacus!
el B, the week after next we have a monster 27 minute episode about the Greco Turkish War and the Turkish War of Independence coming out - obviously Kemal Atatürk is one of the main characters.
m Mink, we can’t promise, but we’ll keep it in mind.
In short: making sense of Eastern Europe in the 20th century is like untangling Christmas lights.
ROFL! 🤣 😂 😅
Not so sure, @@TheCimbrianBull it might be easier to untangle Christmas lights...
@@TimeGhost At least Christmas lights don't fight amongst each other or try to strangle you if you touch certain parts of them...
@@podemosurss8316 And eventually someone gets the bright idea to just cut the knot, which will surely make things less complicated and easier to solve.
Too soon you monster, too soon...
Marvelous. I can't deny I'm both happy and a little bit proud that I had some impact on creating this episode.
Thank you for your contribution! 😀
This is a fantastic episode! Thanks for your input!
@Kamil Szadkowski - it's definitely something to be proud of!
Ok, so I have a question: If we are talking that Polish "movement" that is presented here as somrthing new then what about Kosciuszko uprising what about 3rd May constitution? What about: "A niechaj narodowie wżdy postronni znają, iż Polacy nie gęsi, iż swój język mają." in Eng: "Let it by all and sundry foreign nations be known that Poles speak not Anserine but a tongue of their own." That's from XVI century and Mikołaj Rej is already writing about "nation"
@Jim lastname the Jews & Germans were saying that out (Polish) white eagle is a goose. So to offend us even more, .....speak anserine ( speak like goose).
Two of my great grandfathers fought in the Silesian Uprisings, and one of them was actually a founding member of the "Sokół" sport associacion in Katowice/Kattowitz. They were both murdered by the NKVD in 1940.
@khvaif kgsaiuf He (Franciszek Kost) was a police officer during the interwar period and in 1939 he was pulling back to the east alongside the Polish Army, where I assume he was captured by the Russians. The other grandfather (Józef Niwiński) was a deputy director of the basalt quarry in Janowa Dolina, he was mobilized as an officer of the reserve but his unit was overrun by the Red Army before it was even fully formed. His wife along with their three children, all below the age of 10 with the youngest being 1 year old, were deported to Kazakstan on april 13th 1940, the same day that he was murdered. Ironicaly that deportation and four years of struggling to survive in a dugout on the steppe, may have saved their lives as almost all of the Poles that stayed in Janowa Dolina (about 600 people) were massacred by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in 1943. Out of the two remaining great grandfathers, one was a tank commander in Africa and Italy (Polish II Corps) while the other was a member of the underground in occupied Poland (he and his family also took in a Jewish girl that was earlier smuggled out of the Warsaw Ghetto by the ressistance). So yeah, just a regular Polish experience from the first half of the 20th century...
Westerners like to associate "rape and pillage" with fancy vikings, but we (not only Poles, but so many other nations here) had grandparents who have seen Red Army and NKVD in action... Some lived to tell the tale (and being persecuted for it in "free" post-war Poland), some did not. May all of them rest in glorious peace.
@Dominik Kost - Sorry to learn of the murder of two of your great-grandfathers by the NKVD. It is a testimony to the strength and resilience of the Poles that any of them survived being invaded, occupied, dismembered, and savaged by two land sharks, Nazi Germany and the communist Soviet Union.
My sincerest condolences Dominik.
Yeah, sounds about normal ;) Almost boring really.
To complicate the name thing even further. Although in the west Poland from the Early Modern Era is usually referred to as either simply Poland, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or just Poland-Lithuania (German: Polen-Litauen). However, the full official name of the Union was (with some possible alternations) Serenissima Res Publica Coronae Regni Poloniae Magnique Ducatus Lithuaniae which translates to: the Most Serene Republic of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Quite a lengthy name I know. The citizens of Poland at the time were commonly referring to their homeland as "Rzeczpospolita" which literally means Republic. (The word is a combination of two words Recz - thing and pospolite - common so basically a mirror of Latin - Res Publica). The word itself quickly changed its original meaning and become an alternative name for a Polish state used to this day. The term started to see widespread use in the XVI century but it was already sporadically used 200 years earlier. Piłsudski and his government established what is known as "II Rzeczpospolita" - a Second Republic. Now you know what he did there ;)
Besides, there is a common mismatch in modern and old names. As there used to be commonwealth of Poloniae and Lituaniae (which in tern used to be called Great Dutchy of Litwa, Rus and Zhemaitiya)
More or less, references are as follows:
Old naming - modern naming
Poland - Poland (though Poland was applied to commonwealth as a whole by foreigners - same as whole of USSR used to be called "Russia" (Turkmen and Estonians all under one name)
Rus - Ukraine
Litwa - Belarus
Zhemaitiya - Lithuania
And of course it all existed before such things as nations, so for modern above mentioned countries Commonwealth is like Charlemagne's empire for modern France, Germany and Italy
@@SK_2521 Stop spreading this idiotic Belarusian propaganda. Belarus is not a successor of Lithuania (Litwa) and historically was only treated as the province of the Duchy.
@Jim lastname You are too kind.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 only a province, right. However, law codexs' were for some reason printed in Slavic language not in Lithuanian.
@@SK_2521 Depends on the time period. Suffice to say that they were first and foremost printed in Polish and then maybe but not always in Ruthenian. However, it won't change the fact that all of the upper class (nobility) and most of the town's folk were speaking Polish. The Ruthenian speaking population was mostly peasants that didn't have any political or national affiliation.
Yay, finally someone talks about Silesian Uprisings in English!
I taught English in Gliwice in '04. Silesia's history is not taught in the West.
PatrykCXXVIII, a youtuber named jabzy made a video about the silesian uprisings
@@DT-sb9sv In my experience studying in the UK, Silesia came up multiple times.
Damn, you guys do a good job at explaining this. As an American this is the first time I've ever heard any of this in depth. In my highschool world history course, the only time I've ever heard of Poland was from the 1939 invasion and that was it. In college I took the same course and it was almost the same thing ( the only difference is that there was a mention about to the Commonwealth), unless you took a course was specially designed for European history. Awesome work guys!
Thanks
@@TimeGhost You're welcome
I'm from Belgium and was unaware of at least half of this. I knew bits and pieces like the plebiscite in Upper Silesia and that the Polish eastern frontier was due to wars after the Russian Civil War. But this video helped me get a much broader picture of how it all was related. I knew that Pilsudski played a very large role in both establishing Poland and its eastern border. I've seen sculptures of him and know he is revered to by Polish to this day. He is actually an example of a national hero for the Poles but was born in ... Wilna as he would call it (Vilnius, capital of Lithuania and city he added to Poland). Just like Mustapha Kemal, father of all Turks who was born in Saloniki, they were born in a very different world than the one they helped to change.
Poland-USA have many connection in history. Have you ever learn in school about Kazimierz Pułaski / Tadeusz Kościuszko?
@@gunterke actually its called Wilno in polish and in that times poles were a majority there
As a Lithuanian I can say that you explained Lithuania's position after ww1 perfectly. Good job!
Not really. Those who lived in Vilnius called themselves LITHUANIAN but spoke only Polish and preferred Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth instead of Lithuania with foreign to them Lithuanian language as the only one. Piłsudski always considered himself Lithuanian and Lithuanian only. First president of Poland Narutowicz had a brother who most likely wrote the Lithuanian declaration of independence (Taryba of February 1918). Families were divided with brothers and cousins preferring Rzeczpospolita side and other brothers and cousins preferring Lithuanian Republic side. Don't forget, the new forged Lithuanian elite spoke only Polish and had to learn Lithuanian from the ground up. Yes, Lithuanians dominated Polish politics then and it was them who kept the Lithuanian Republic away. I'm Polish, descendant of Vilnius Lithuanians who left in 1945 preferring the Polish Crown territories over USSR.
Sorry we betrayed you Lithuanian brother
Is it just me, or does it seem like WW1 didn't really end when it was supposed to?
Well, Winston Churchill (being as arrogant and judging as Churchill usually is) used to say: "When the war of the giants is over the wars of the pygmies will begin."
100% right on mate.
The thing is, the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire, German empire and Russia at the same time led to instability. In english, the law was remowed so everyone took as much as could.
Some historians argue that WW1 andWW2 were the same war, with a 20 year truth
it did in the way that main fighting sides stoped, but after Germany and Austrian empire on the wrong side as a losers all other eastern nation started to establish themselves again
One funny thing about the referendum in Upper Silesia - the German headquaters was situated in Katowice, which went to Poland and the Polish headquaters was situated in Bytom, which went to Germany.
With the staff at both places taking a huge damp all over the floors right before evacuating.
Thank you so much for this. It is so rare to hear about the polish-soviet war. You are the ultimate history youtuber
In my opinion it is covered quite frequently, there is another video dealing entirely with the Polish Soviet War in this channel. Many other channels have covered it too.
11:00 well, Silesia is its own complicated thing. It's even a debate weather the (slavic) Silesian is a dialect or a language in its own right. It's further complicated by the fact that the german dialect that was (and is by a small minority still) spoken in this region is also called Silesian. And to make things worse, it gets more confusing if you take the czech part of Silesia into account. I highly recommend reading about the history of Silesia, it is really worth it.
This is my favorite video so far
The absurd complexity of the polish-Lithuanian war is fascinating
What are some good books where I can read more about it
Start from White Eagle - Red Star by Norman Davies.
I'd also recommend "The Reconstruction of Nations. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999" by Timothy Snyder.
It might not be much in the aspect of military history, but it excellenty explains the whole political and cultural aspects of this conflict and its background.
"Bitter Glory" by Richard Watt is also preety good, tho it's stricte interwar period only
Best history channel ever!
Very well done! In grad school I was a GA for a Polish-American professor and learned all this (and more) from him. So glad you’re making this important info accessible to the wider public. Great job!!
Pavel Bermondt-Avalov had an army that was created by the Germans from Russian POW's from WW 1. The went under different names, the West Russian Volunteer Army and also the Bermontians. They had a kind of double agenda. They wanted to support the White cause for the Russian Civil War but also restoring German rule in the Baltics. At the end, the Germans created this army. The Bermontians fought against Latvian and Lithuanian independence fighters. They lived of the land what made them very unpopular to begin with. The fight with the Lithuanians was considered as one of the Lithuanian Wars of Independence (there were two more). Again, sources vary as this video puts out. I find this stuff very fascinating. Thanks for this clear explaination!
Indy this is Your Best Series!!! Thanks!
Do I understand that Mr. Niedel will be doing these vids as a regular gig? If so, I won't miss one, ever. Thanks
You have understood correctly.
I really appreciate these but they're so hard to follow since there's so much detail and so many players. In episodes like this I think it would help to also tell the story from the royal familys points of view since they are the ones who are being upended by the growing people's movements - i.e. who they ally with and what becomes of them in the longer term. Thank you.
Thanks for your fascinating work. This part of Poland's history is so convoluted that I'll probably have to watch this at least one more time to understand it.
@Robin Beckford - I will have to watch it at least once again, too!
Yeah, he packs a lot in to these. I'm really enjoying them.
I am not sure if you take suggestion on this channel, but it would be hilarious to see some special like
"top 5 most chaotic-and-confusing-trivial-detail-in-eastern-Europe-between-the-world-wars."
I think the title should be confusing as well.
Good episode about things I never learned about before, can't wait for the episodes on the machinations going on in Asia.
Same. I'm really hoping for an episode on Old Shanghai.
Indy and team, I’m laying in bed with a fever. Your amazing videos make me feel a little better! Keep up the great work
Get well soon!
I hope it's not the Spanish Flu! 😱
I hope you're feeling better now!
Damn, I have to get up early, but I simply have to watch it!
try when you are on the driving 18 wheeler at 70mph and u see the notification and you slowdown and pullover to the side to watch it.
Wow @@inamacalin1 - that is one compliment! Thank you.
This period is sooo interesting. Im learning something new every episode.
Great video!
Some minor corrections, though:
Firstly, not ALL of Posen was incorporated into Poland. Area around Schneidemühl/Piła was left in Germany. In fact, the Germans treated it as a whole province, hoping that they would regain the rest, naming it Grenzmark Posen-Westpreussen (literally Borderland Posen-West Prussia).
Some people already adressed the Greater Poland Uprising, so I won't add anything to that.
Secondly, as for the plebiscites. In case of the Eastern Prussian plebiscite, it took place in 1920, just when Poland was about to fall due to the Soviet invasion. Prussia was also near the front, so joining Poland at the time would just mean becoming part of a Soviet republic. No doubt no one wanted that. Unlike Silesia or even Posen, most of Polish speakers in East Prussia were agrarian, they mostly lived in villages. There were few pro-Polish urban Masurians, but it's just hard to convince largely uneducated public to do anything. Not to mention that said activists were often attacked by the Germans.
Poland didn't really support or propagated the plebiscite, either, they were too focused on the war with Soviets and East Prussia had no real industry, again, unlike Silesia, and that's why they were more supportive there. In the end, Poles boycotted the East Prussian plebiscite and it failed spectacurally. We have to remember that most Masurians (ethnic Poles in Prussia) were Protestant, unlike majority Catholic Poles in Poland proper, and even before the plebiscite took place, the first thing they heard from Poles were the plans to "re-catholicize" them.
So really, it's no wonder majority voted for Germany. The area was never part of Poland and Polish speakers, though they formed majority in the rural areas around the border with Poland (and some large minority in the cities as well), were pretty integrated into larger Prussian society. Most areas of Poland were even poorer than East Prussia itself. Even later, during the Crisis years, Germany remained much, much wealthier than Poland so economically, it made no sense to join Poland.
But to be fair, some areas of Prussia WERE added to Poland. Some minor villages, mostly, along with very vital town of Soldau/Działdowo, through which the railroad went from Mazovia up to the seaport of Danzig. Sadly, it was the local Masurian population of Działdowo and nearby area that was subjected to the "recatholicization" policy and the locals were very bitter towards Polish government as a whole.
Now, Silesia is a very densly populated, urban place, so many Silesians were more aware of the situation. I have no doubts that if East Prussia was as densly populated as Silesia, and Poles were more urbanized there, they would have taken up arms as well. But I can't speak much about Silesia, as East Prussia is more familiar to me (I am from the area, after all). But there is one more thing to mention: Silesia was very divided ethnically. And I mean: VERY. The plebiscite thing divided whole families. You had situations where one brother was very pro-Polish and thought of himself as a Pole, yet his brother would gladly wave the German flag and wanted Silesia to stay as a part of Germany. Similar situations happened in Posen or West Prussia/Pomerallia.
Not to mention Lithuania, where there were two famous brothers: Gabriel and Stanisław, who supported two different nations. Gabriel Narutowicz was a president of Poland (who was famously shot by an assasin), while his brother Stanisław, or as Lithuanians would call him, Stanislovas Narutavičius, was one of the 20 signatories to sign the Declaration of Independence of Lithuania and was involved in Lithuanian politics.
So we must remember that, regardless of what nations thought, the ethnic mix of peoples also caused problems for individuals, including splitting families apart.
A pretty - sorry to say - arrogant way to say being pro-Polish is a matter of education and Masurians were just too dumb to vote correctly. They were Lutherans and for centuries they were on the Prussian/German side against the catholic Poles in every single conflict. And regarding Dzialdowo, it wasn't part of the plebsicite area and the locals cheered the Soviet troops when the town was occuped in 1920 because they thought they would return to Germany after a Soviet victory.
In french the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is called "République des deux nations" (Republic of the two nations).
And is so in Polish, its actual translation of the name. It's a shame that english channels still use mistranslated name.
Cant even get the name translation down. Lol
BTW, there used to be suggestions regarding reformation of Commonwealth into Republic of the three nations - by establishing Ruthenia (modern Ukraine) as a third member of the union
@@SK_2521 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Hadiach
@@SK_2521 you can accualy find a 3part national emblem(eagle,knight,archangel) at some cemeteries in Kraków. Usually at the graves from the 1863 uprising.
Indi... what else can I say? I was a history geek long before The Great War channel. Everyone thinks I know way too much about history now. I find myself using historical facts all the time. They'll be having a normal (boring) conversation, and I'll interject with, "You know why... bla bla bla (insert historical evidence here)." Not bragging, it usually doesn't work... but sometimes it does, then I just met a fellow amateur historian. Makes for a good night. I can shoot the shit with someone that is at least interested in history, if not more knowledged. I've gotten to speak to a few veterans as well. It's very humbling. Thanks for all great content. You've changed my life.
Hello Indy will you cover Mexico's interwar years? from wrapping up the revolution, the Cristero war and Plutarco Calles, to the rise of Lazaro Cardenas and the oil expropriation. its really a fascinating power struggle.
Na zdrowie! :)
I love this episode! The only complain I have is that the Poles in Posen (Poznań) were definitely not crushed, in fact, the 1918-1919 Greater Poland Uprising was the most decisively successful in the long list of Polish uprisings, more so than the Silesian Uprisings. I understand you focused more on the later, as a more complicated subject (and you did an amazing job there).
Well, actually there was another fully successful uprising - the 1806 Greater Poland Uprising. The people of Greater Poland (Wielkopolska) region are apparently a bit weird - actually staging uprisings in advantageous circumstances. Personally, as someone from the "Kongresówka", I think it's just cheating. ;)
Kurwa! 😉
How could they, stage an uprising that actually SUCCEEDED? And they call themselves Poles? Outrageous! :D
Just so we're clear: when we say crushed we mean what they undertook to put it down, not that the Germans succeeded in crushing it, but they went in with force and it was pretty bloody - the insurgents were certainly making good headway (at a pretty steep cost though) but before there was a conclusive outcome, the delegates at the Paris Peace Conference concluded the Versailles Treaty and it was decided that Posen goes to Poland ending the insurgency. As we say in the episode this uprising greatly contributed to this decision. To put it in boxing terms; before the Polish insurgents could knock out the German police forces, the Germans were counted out and eliminated on a technical knockout. But, that's still a solid win ;-)
@@TimeGhost in fact from what I know it was orchestrated that way. They Poles counted on the Entante to step in, as they knew they woulden't be able to hold out indiefinitly against the Germans. There was close cooperation between the Polish delegation and the Army in Poznań. Also by coincidence my highschoolfriend's greatgreatfather was a staff officer during the uprising (sent unofficially from the regular army,if you can call it a regular army ;))
Yet they lost in 1848. We in Galicja on the other hand weren't so keen on uprisings aside from this one time in 1846 when we were crushed by ourselves we were just starving.
Indy Neidell, thank you very much for these brilliant videos. I love History and you do it well Sir.
The Poland episodes are the best.
Not need to wait until February 7, 2019. At 03:10 the Winged Hussars Arrive, even before the Sabaton History Channel.
I am literally watching the same parts over and over again because it is so confusing and complicated, but slowly but surely I see what had happened. Just like the situation of Far East Asia after ww2, this was a huge black hole for me because I could not find one well put documentation of this. I finally have a picture, and the situation of the interwar period is further getting clearer.
Amazing job guys... wow
Honestly? I really like this video, but the content is oversimplified ;)
I think the post-WWI mess in Eastern Europe is difficult to comprehend primarily because we naturally tend to underestimate the sheer magnitude of disorder that ruled across the whole region after 1918. The maps we're presented with and their finely drawn demarcation lines simply do not reflect reality, in which hundreds of thousands of demobilized troops became regular militias answering to nobody exept their own officers. When, say, a "Belarusian People's Republic" is formed, it doesn't really control all of the territory it claims and which most maps will usually assume it actually owns. Also, let's bear in mind that at this point in time, European borders are still largely just either signposts along roads and, across 99% of their length, just plain grass. A German-speaking Silesian in 1919 who had never once looked at a map in his life suddenly hears that his home town is now Poland whereas the last time he checked it was 100% Austria-and he is totally ready for anything to make it Austria again.
@@yarpen26 That and also the fact that unlike in Western Europe, where national borders were already estabilished and mostly divided people of different languages and nations, that was not so much the case in the east. So the German speaking Silesian in 1914 went to the market to buy some wheat from his Polish speaking neighbour, then went to the Jewish shoemaker to pick-up his repaired boots and after a long day went to have some beer in the local tavern run by some Czech family. As long as there was an external power above them all, the life was relatively peaceful, but once the old empires were gone, new groups started to claim territories based on arguments, that suited them most rather than current state of things (sometimes historical, sometimes language, sometimes "we just need this land because it has industry"). The divisions were also on class level, so e.g. in Silesia the burgeoisie and aristocracy was rather German and Poles were rather members of the working classes, whereby further in the east in Galicja the Poles were bourgeoisie and aristocracy living in cities like Lemberg and Ukrainians were rather living in the countryside. Regular people also didn't care much about politics that much (similar to today); they just wanted to live, work and rest after the exhaustion of the WWI and remained neutral. So there was no way to leave all parties happy when the right of nations to self-determine was given priority. Sadly enough this was achieved only after WW2 and under Communism, due to mass exterminations and forced migrations. (Although in 1920's there was a land-exchange program for landowners in new Poland in Germany, where people could exchange their old posessions for the similar ones in country of their choice, but that was just a small drop in an ocean).
On the other hand - I heard once an anecdote from mid 1920's Poland where an old Highlander was brought to court in Nowy Targ for not paying some of the taxes. He then proceeded and took an old Austrian Penal code and tried to explain to the judge that he didn't do anything wrong, because the Kaiser said so in the code and the poor guy could not comprehend how on earth is there any other law that overrules the Austrian imperial law, that was there since forever. So I think that sums up how at least some people felt about the new order.
A bit late but I've been meaning to say, thank you for all the time and effort you all put into all of your channels. I can't contribute money to you but I at least "smash all those buttons"! The sheer magnitude of what you guys have done and are doing is inspirational to say the least and very much appreciated. I have learned so much, not only about the wars but so, so much about things never taught or even mentioned in school, undergrad or even many focused courses. You've even given me a respectful way to connect with both of my grandfathers and hear their stories. I would go on in my drunken praise until my fingers hurt so just let me say again, thank you. Thank you very much.
We thank _you_ for this wonderful drunken praise!
paitings of Tamara Łempicka on wallls - good job! well prepared; subsribed
Thank you, good eye!
thanx you just saved me ages of searching for those paintings - just beautiful
Great job TG team! 👍👍👍👍👍
Indiana Jones I see you everywhere on these guys videos haha
Love the Poland episodes, but I am wonder whether you will cover what happened in Hungary & Romania and other areas of the ex-Austro-Hungarian empire?
We might, but our main focus are the events with major impact on WW2.
@@TimeGhost thanks for the reply, I just thought this channel was just interwar events in general. been watching for a while, and will continue to!
@@TimeGhost surely Hungary has a major impact on ww2? And Romania for that matter
lovablesnowman during the war most definitely, but their part in the events causing and leading up to the war were more peripheral. Arguably every country had a part in the build up of conflicts, passively or actively - it was a world war after all... but our scope is limited.
@@TimeGhost oh I totally get you it's just it would be nice to hear more about these periphery events. Hungary and virtually all the smaller axis allies have almost totally been written out of the western historiography so it's always nice to hear more about them
I have just finished booking a trip to Upper Silesia, I hope to learn more there. Also, this is a great series I will continue to watch the rest great job.
Great information again.
7:25 fun fact: Pilzudski did the famous two finger salute as seen by in that picture!
Indy, thank you for this episode and maneuvering the minefield that is Poland's history relatively unscathed. But only relatively, I fear.
That "ethnic Poles in Posen (...) rise up against Germany, but are violently crushed" (10'40") is counterfactual. Quite the reverse, between December 1918 and February 1919, a larger portion of Wielkopolska, or the Prussian Province of Posen, with majority Polish population, was successfully liberated, and almost exclusively by its own effort. The German Freikorps were kept at bay by the Polish militia, while minimal assistance was available from the regular Polish forces, which were only just being organized and were simultaneously engaged against the Ukrainians and the Bolsheviks. Polish historians like to point out that it was the only successful of the series of national revolts against the three occupying empires between 1794 and 1919.
Indy... I am truly and honestly impressed
Thanks!
My time watching C&Rsenal has me wondering how the heck an M1895 Colt-Browning “potato digger” MG ended up in the Polish-Bolshevik battles represented by the photo at 8:58. That’s far from the point of this series but I can’t help myself.This series covers such a fascinating and little-known series of events (at least in the U.S.), I love it! Thank you so much everyone who contributed!
I think Czechoslovakia would have something to say about 0:01 :P but great episode as always!
Thx for all you've done Indy and team. Never knew there was something like this going on in that region.That's why i like this channel.
wow. these episodes are PACKED with info. i have to watch them all several times to even truly begin to understand them.
Good work. Thank you!
This is a fantastic series. I never quite understood what a mess Europe was.
@@neues3691 tatsächlich
Always such amazing research in all these shows. Well done everyone.
Thanks Mark!
Oh hi, Mark!
Thanks a lot for the excellent history lessons (my favorite subject ever)! Moral of the history - some graves from the past must be left untouched, for nothing good comes out of it. Looks like many people haven't learned yet Shouts from Angola!
@MarkusAudio Thanks! Hi back to Angola from all of us here!
@9:50: That guy's hearing is fucked.
Otherwise, Great Job. Very well done, attractively presented and bringing into the light a multitude of information, otherwise unavailable.
Great video! So glad these are being made because I didnt even know about the uprisings and the impact they had on WW2 years later. Thanks Indy and Team!
Yes, it is incredible content you guys create! Great job and big thanks for trying to present the history the as-middle-way-as possible :) Long live Indy and the crew!
Thanks a lot! Cheers!
Excellent work sir.
Thank you!
The best episode
with such quality content i'm surprised no television has recruited this team with a fat contract.
So are we...
Dobra robota, Kamil!
Excellent! Neutral, attained to facts
Thank you this exactly the video iv been looking for in the "between two wars"
A great, informative and interesting series of videos. Thanks.
Poland led the way in having a bicameral legislature that shared power with a constitutionally limited monarch. Sadly, this version of Poland was dismembered between three of the major royal houses of Central and Eastern Europe.
If you wondered why Stalin stopped the Red Army to allow the Nazis to crush the Warsaw Uprising, be sure to check out Indy (and the team's) coverage of the Polish-Soviet War when Stalin was a military commander. ua-cam.com/video/Equ7ua9b3Jo/v-deo.html
@Comrade Corbachev Why we should trust someone with comrade in username?
One thing about Poland is trying to understand how an ethnic group so ill-defined by natural boundaries can maintain cohesion. The key boundaries are the Baltic Sea to the north, some "German" rivers to the west, the Pripet Marshes and maybe the Carpathian Mountains to the south, and nothing really to the east. Almost all of the traditional "Poland" seems rather flat or rolling plains like the American Midwest. Seems like geography would allow the "Poles" to be pushed back and forth along this large, ill-defined area. It's like Kansans trying so hard to be different from Nebraskans.
@@amerigo88 I don't get one thing about this supposed "undefensible borders" of Poland. What does Germany have, that Poland lacks? The Alps? Alps may be higher than Carpathians, but they are mountains nevertheless. Germany has Rhine to the west, or even lacks any river at the border with, say, Netherlands. Eastern border of Germany is just the Oder river. How are those borders somehow more defensible than Polish ones?
Well, @@Vitalis94 to join in Samuel's point; that was exactly the problem that faced the northern and central European Holy Roman principalities in the The Schmalkaldic Wars, The 30 Years War, The Napoleonic Wars and a whole bunch of other conflicts - for several hundred year starting in the 1500s what we now know as Northern and Eastern Germany, Czechia, Poland, North Eastern Belgium, and southern Netherlands were killing fields for one army after the other that fell into this rolling, transport-friendly, and resource-rich landsacpe (or the princes fell onto of each other). Why did it start then? Well before the 16th century the geographic problem was not so grave - but by the end of the 1500s, as European population was growing again, for the first time since the Black Death, they led to an increase in farmland, and more road projects which opened up the landscape by successively clearing the deep forests of Northern Central Europe. And there was also the tool revolution that led to wars being fought by landscaping... but that's a story that is muuuuch longer (a fascinating one though).
12:19 - a similar story happened just before the outbreak of the Third Silesian Uprising: on the night of May 2nd/3rd 1921, Poles under the command of cpt Tadeusz Puszczyński, nom de guerre Konrad Wawelberg, blew up seven bridges on the Oder/Odra river, severing rail links between Upper Silesia and Germany, preventing the Germans from sending in reinforcements quick enough (one of these bridges, at Szczepanowice, is seen at 13:51). These sabotage units, known as "Wawelberg Destruction Group", would later serve as a mixture of shock troops and combat engineers.
Do you have any episode in any channel where you discuss the Romanian-Hungarian war?
You also forgot to mention the conflict between Czechoslovakia and Poland. When Poland was engaged with Soviets in 1920, Czechoslovakia seized disputed territory of Cieszyn Silesia committing atrocities against polish POW . The territory was return in 1938 when Poland participated in partition of Czechoslovakia.
Hmmm... go back and look again. We mention this, but as it has little to no impact on the greater scale we only mention it in one sentence and do not go into the details.
Except that territory was seized after the Poles started organizing elections to Polish parliament, which was against previous agreements that no one should govern the territory until there's common decision.
10:45 Poles in Poznań (first capital of Poland) rise up against the Germans in the Greater Poland Uprising and they crush the Germans not the other way around. They captured quite a lot of planes on Ławica prussian military airfield which if I remember correctly are later used to buzz above Frankfurt to scare off the Germans in a show of force or something like that. But im not sure about the Frankfurt part.
Such a good series for such a time that's nots really discussed keep up the good work team
I love this series so much!!! thank you! :)
Wait, what? In 10:45 you said that uprising in Posen was crushed? That's not true. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland_uprising_(1918%E2%80%9319)
Crushed but successful despite it - would you describe the German response as light handed?
@@TimeGhost No, German response was not light handed, but they do not crush the uprising.
ua-cam.com/video/0mCfMy5fT_Q/v-deo.html
Great work love all of your series!
Great video ✔️✔️
Indy: We have the music of your voice. There is no need for dramatic and distracting music in the background. Keep up the great work, just don't dilute the impact with the music.
Frank
I love your videos, so intresting!
WHAT? The Posen uprising was victorious! It didn't get crushed, it liberated most of Greater Poland. I LIVE here, by the way, so don't tell me I don't know xD
Polish uprising in Poznan/Pozen was NOT crushed(!) - it was actually the only successful Polish uprising of several. Otherwise, it's a rather very good video with an excellent delivery by the speaker.
I had no idea this happened. I had this belief that war actually stopped in 11-11-19
I assume you mean 11-11-18. But yes, various wars to determine the new borders continue until the end of Greco-Turkish war in 1922. And Arab and Kurdish uprisings are intermittent throughout the 1920s and 30s. And then from 1931 onwards you have Japanese war with China.
Where did you get that three bulb light in the back?
Na zdrowie!
1:31 "East Prussia..."
That voice crack, though. 😂
Good job !
Thanks!
Incredibly complex.
My head hurts.
Damn these conflicts were chaotic. I could really use some more maps for clarification.
Poles were not crushed in Poznan. Poles won the uprising in Poznan.
Well guess, Lithuanian historiography denies that... :-)
@@klausbrinck2137
Modern Lithuanian historiography is a joke.
@@ZipperZbieracz I didn´t mean to take sides, just wanted to point out the fact that Lithuanians won´t be convinced so easily... The historiographies of both is pretty biased, getting crushed constantly by their neightbours leads to a very nationalistic-wise biased historiography...
@@klausbrinck2137 But this uprising had nothing to do with Lithuania. It was probably just a typo. Poles won the Uprising in Posen and Greater Poland. That's why this region became the part of Poland once again.
@@miba2137 Just a joke, sorry
The Second Polish Republic evokes France's official name for herself, the French Republic. I wonder if there were any lingering memories of Polish support of France during the Napoleonic era in that? Regardless, what a great name for the newly re-established Poland and what a great episode! I had had no idea of how the Poles and Lithuanians had fought one another at that time. I've always thought of the time when they were united and fought together to stop Teutonic expansion at the (First) Battle of Tannenberg in 1410.
Well, because of the Union between Poland and Lithuania, Lithuanians kinda found themselves in a situation similar to Scots in the UK. Namely, their language and culture almost completely replaced by Polish. In the XIX century when Lithuanian national identity started to form they become hostile towards Poles seeing Polish culture as a threat to their identity. This trend continues to this day. Lithuanian historians even claim that Poland was occupying Lithuania between XVI to XVIII century which is, of course, total bullshit.
As for the name of the reborn Polish state. Not really, the official name of Poland before the partitions was "Republic of Poland" already.
@Kamil Szadkowski - thank you for the informative reply to my comment.
Hi Indy. You are introducing much confusion into this picture. The simple story is this: 1. In Oct-Nov 1918, the governments which are in place in Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine (both of them), are all organised by, or under the protection or with the consent or at least neutrality of German and Austro-Hungarian occupying forces. As such, they serve some of the interests of Germany, Austro-Hungary, whose aim is to keep their eastern frontier fragmented and weak, playing one nationality against another, and supporting the Bolsheviks, whom they helped install in Russia. 2. As Austro-Hungary falls apart, the carefully cultivated hostility between Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians is supported by organised action of the Austrian military, to incite conflict. Which is quite easy due to the fact that there is a multitude of political, national and religious factions. 3. As Germany recognises that the war is lost and prepares for the possible need to withdraw, they do exactly the same. They organise, or support spontaneously organised governments in Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania and incite conflict. At the same time, they agree with the Bolsheviks, that the Ober Ost evacuated by the victorious German army will be taken over by Bolsheviks. The locals, knowing what Bolshevik revolution look like organise local militias, which become parts of the respective armies of national countries. This way, the self defence of Wilno/Vilnius, a predominantly Polish inhabited capital of historic Lithuania, is incorporated into the Polish Army on Dec 29, 1918 and on Jan 4, 1919 it gets attacked by the Soviet Army and has to evacuate the city (after a week). Thus started the Polish Bolshevik war, not without a German incitement.
As a history major, thank you!!!
You're welcome!
This series needs more telephones.
I do like this series, keep up the good work. The two paintings in the background are fantastic, who is the artist please :)
The artist is Tamara Łempicka. The left-hand painting is called 'Portrait of a Young Girl in a Green Dress' and the right-hand one is titled 'Portrait De Madame Boucard'
:)
Great video! The only thing it misses to touch would be the Prometheism doctrine. Why? Because it is still very relevant in modern geopolitics as well. Prometheism was a doctrine which Piłsudski heavily believed in: after regaining Poland's independence it was in Polish national interest to help other ethnicities inside Russia to regain theirs and possibly sway them into a "Polish bloc" that could either guarantee enough military strength to defend against Moscow or at least create buffer satellite states that Poles could fight in instead of Poland itself. Of course peace of Riga and the partition of Ukraine in 1921 shattered any form of trust those ethnicities could have for Polish help.
In modern times this idea is still very important for Polish geopolitics: heavy support for Georgia, active help in the NATO missions in the Baltics and most importantly - heavy involvement in supporting Ukraine's westward movements such as Orange Revolution or Euromaidan. Polish national interest dictates dissolution of Russia. Even in 2019 (despite hard Polish-Ukrainian past that becomes more and more relevant today) you can see the Prometheism doctrine being used in states like Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus (supporting pro-west movements) and by renewed Polish interest in the Intermarium economic bloc or even Visegrad group itself (V4).
This is really excellent. It demonstrates why the Wilsonian principle of national self-determination, while laudable in theory, was unworkable in practice. So many lives were uprooted or extinguished by misguided efforts to implement it.
Very interesting episode about the creation of Poland after WWI. I don't know much about the history of Eastern Europe. In am unrelated question: who is the woman in green in the painting over Indy's right shoulder?
Poles in "Posen" werent "crushed" they have beaten Germans and secured Greater Poland in Poland !
Lets gooo Poland
I feel like we, or rather I'm, so used to looking at history in periods with beginnings and ends its so easy to forget or overlook just how....connected everything is. I know that might read incredibly dumb but its just how simple it is to gloss over that a key event in one period of history can directly if not indirectly be the cause of another event in a separate period and so on and so on.
Hey Edward.
Doesn't read dumb at all, and in fact it's exactly the lesson we hope to share with our videos. Appreciate the support :)
As for the present capital of Lithuania, back in 1920 Vaaast majority of its inhabitants were ethnic Poles. Posen uprising was successful for Poles, contrary to what you say
You might want to take a refresher in math arithmetic... 30% is not a “Vaasst majority”
@@TimeGhost Can you reveal the source of this information?
What song is that playing in the background? Please help
6:00 : 1st step, 2nd should have been going full to west, south & north.
Poland is even older, known as Lahistan, the land of Lah/Leh, several thousands years ago.
Another excellent video on Poland! Didn't know how complicated this all was.
Great vd! I think if Poland hooked up with Lithuania, they would circle Prussia. Hitler might have second thoughts to attack Poland. Even after the German’s blitzkrieg, Poland might have a chance to push them back as German tanks wound get stuck in the east - very tough terrain. And perhaps France would send military aid to Poles...it would be a different story...unfortunately, the Sept 17 attack from the East ended this strategy.