The Fatal M1 Abrams Armor Flaw In War Thunder
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- The M1 Abrams in War Thunder is a very good tank, however It does have some issues with it's armor that I show here.
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Having this Weak spot doesn't mean the M1 is bad at all, if you aren't doing well you are having a skill issue :).
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If your ping isn't good this is the worst MBT in the game because you will lose every clutch exchange.
>Ground RB
>Looks inside
>Planes
cry about it grind plane too or SPAA
The spookston meme
@@vojtechkadlec8062 SPAA are functionally useless. Gaijin is purposefully and progressively making SPAA worse over time as well. The French for instance had their AMX-10P go up to 6.0 while the Japanese SUB-I-II, which is functionally identical in it's SPAA capabilities, stays at 5.3. Furthermore, SPAA is a lot harder for most people to play than aircraft. When leading shots, SPAA needs to take into consideration the velocity of their rounds, which isn't even provided by the stat card to begin with. Then the speed of the aircraft, it's angle of flight in 3 dimensions, and the distance relative to you. Then you have to consider if there are multiple planes up, if you should go for cover to avoid being strafed, etc. Most SPAA can't even elevate the guns high enough to stop a top-down strafing run. See the aforementioned AMX-10P for more info.
Meanwhile, all a plane needs to do is to point the mouse vaguely in the direction of a target, hit space-bar and let gravity take the wheel from there. It really is just that simple to play CAS these days. It is the most handheld play-style of any game that I have ever played, and I say that, having over 3000 hours in WT at this point.
Playing SPAA just means you are the first target to get nuked off the map. Good CAS players, or any CAS player for that matter, always targets SPAA first. It also doesn't help that some tech trees goes for several tiers without any SPAA upgrades whatsoever. Really the only tech tree that doesn't have big, gaping holes in their capability is the USSR, go figure...
For example:
The U.S goes from 4.0 to 7.7 before the next vehicle. (Duster vs. literal jets, mind you.)
Germany goes from 3.7 to 5.3.
Britain & Japan both goes from 5.3 to 8.3.
Italy from 3.7 to 5.7.
France goes from 6.0 to 8.7.
Sweden from 5.3 to 7.0. (Realistically 7.7 since the ZSU is just a glorified tank destroyer with functional elevation adjustment)
Israel from 4.3 to 7.0. (Again, same as Sweden. In a SPAA-role, the ZSU is outperformed by the Ostwind at 3.3)
@@Nick-rs5if We agree with you but we ain't reading allat
@@vojtechkadlec8062 imagine playing air rb and getting killed by a guy in an SPAA, oh wait, it doesn't happen because air battles are actually for the AIR, same should apply to ground rb
Been playing top tier USA for a bit now and the biggest threat to a M1a2 is Su25sm3 or ka50/52
You forgot all the Leos and the German tigers (helicopter)
It's everyone big threat fr
Leopards:
Ye, u have f15c and f16c to counter them. They are way better
Because Like Most Nato Tanks they have almost No Side or Back armor
SAY THE LINE, BART!
"Here's the manual for the M1 Abrams including its armor"
There are two things that gaijin should fix about Abrams' armor because there is a lot of evidence to prove it:
1. Turret ring: it should be Volumetric, it is true that it is 50mm thick, but it is placed face down so the protection effect should be 200-300mm, which will definitely prevent SPAA and IFV from shooting through it.
2. UFP: this is related to game mechanics, APFSDS does not bounce like a ball.
Also, the turret ring is waaaay too high up. You’d need to aim with an error of ~5-15mm to hit the turret ring with 125mm APFSDS, which is nearly impossible even with mouse aim.
It is not 50mm thick bro it’s more like 150-200mm 💀
@@Optimusprime56241
it is indeed 50mm but measured at a different angle, according to the design it should be 200mm to 300mm
There was a bug report that was acknowledged to make it volumetric and about 250 mm LOS all around based on the placement.
Your first point makes zero sense. And Sabot rounds are smaller than the turret ring so volumetric or not, doesn’t matter.
The only issue I really see is how thin the armor on the turret ring is, and how Gaijin has refused to correct shatter angles. It seems to me that they think if a round hits at a sharp angle it will magically stay fully intact and ram right into armor.
well until it happens to russian tanks that ain getting fix
@@ozoahameg3582T-90m reverse speed isn’t getting fixed, bmp 3 reload isn’t getting fixed, Russian bmp ammo problem isn’t getting fixed, is-2 fighting Cold War isn’t getting fixed, should I continue?
@@Pickles6988 Complaining about the IS-2 fighting cold war tanks. What about the Tiger E?
@@wulfheort8021 i just forgot how awful Tiger E is is
@@Pickles6988 It's wonderful if you do not face cold war tanks. Angled in the right position it can slay entire teams.
died to a T-34 frontally in my M1A2
Gaijin also needs to buff the IQ of the players, would help tremendously.
Somehow buffed players always happen to be in the opponent's team
I tend to find the lower glassis only being a weakspot in the way that it does kill the driver, and that's it. Which in top tier is not "hitting a weakspot" and more "suicide with later assist bonus".
You need to address the real elephant in the room. Gaijin has not implemented the turret ring armor correctly and made it larger than it is in real life.
Prove it.
@@FXIIBeaverMy bug report proves it.
@@TheRealSteve42 link it.
won't make a difference against top tier darts
What would be the difference 😭?
irl the turret ring isn't a weak spot as the ufp is designed to shatter rounds that hit it, And the chances of directly hitting the turret ring are extremely low.
That only worked for early rounds, monoblock shells would ricochet into the turret ring
If the weakest spot is under the main gun that means he is looking at you. Balls off steel in real war to take the time to hit that .
The M1 armor package was designed against what was assumed to be a 115mm tungsten round fired around 1650 m/s. The m744 would probably have defeated it well past normal engagement ranges. That the armor was considered good, had more to do with the fact that the USSR didn't introduce any Monoblock rounds in any real number until around 1987! With the BM-42 not being procured in any real amount until 1989-1990!
And what is 3BM32 "vant"? A uranium monoblock. Fielded in 1985
@@worldoftancraft It was introduced in very limited amounts in late 1985, and really wasn't delivered to troops until late 87-88. Lots of issues with in-bore break up related to manufacturing issues with the long rod.
the m1a2 onwards should get improved armor
@@smoothsoybean7029 Wouldn't change it's placement.
the problem is also in how Aiming works in this game, because the gun gun moves as easy as moving the mouse, it follows the mouse movements perfectly, there is no "machine feeling" like without stabilizers in lower tiers ... and because of that players simply can aim at weakspots ... look at other tank games like Squad or GHPC where aiming is more realistic and hitting those weakspots wouldnt be as easy
Agreed.
the thing is
i play GHPC, and aiming in that thing might even be harder than doing so irl.
irl, most modern mbts and ifvs, uses either 1 of those 3 things, buttons, joystick, or something like those f1 cars steering wheel
and guess what, most of them might be easier to use than what ghpc uses and closer to mouse and keyboard
the thing is, in WT, you are aiming from gun barrel, and that is the most deciding factor
go play Sim in WT, where you must aim from the gunner's or commander's view port
and have to compensate for deviation, thing is hard and mostly at large maps
@@mmneaapro596 yes parallax effect would add much more to the realism and aiming difficulty which in my opinion would make the game better especially top tiers, i havent really played wt because of that, higher tiers are just too ridiculous ...
@@mmneaapro596 yes, but in GHPC tanks like Abrams or T-80 can compensate for deviation and lead automatically unlike war thunder.
the UFP is utterly hilarious as I find that shells will actually ricochet off of it and bounce up underneath the turret to kill the commander and gunner.
The Abrams turret ring in game is so bad that some WW2 full caliber shells can punch through
Real tanks aren’t able to so easily target specific parts unless you’re extremely close and the target is unaware of your presence. A battle is 3 Dimensional. Many other anti tank weapons are trying to kill you. It is possible, just not near as much as a game would have you believe. Barrels wear and older barrels don’t have the accuracy. I have been on ranges where one tank would have three rounds touch each other at 1 km but the norm is not quite as beautiful .
I've been saying for years that they need to force "aim from gunsight" in realistic battles. The tiny weakspot meta simply makes no sense, you shouldn't be able to reliably hit targets that small from far away
@@KekusMagnusI aim from gunsight in realistic for the sake of improving my marksmanship skill in game, the thing is once you as a gunner get used to how the rounds behave (and accounting for the parallax effect) it’s not that hard to hit specific points on an enemy tank at range, Close up where the parallax effect is more prominent is where issues may arise
There was a bug report of the turret neck being volumetric and 260 mm + LOS that was acknowledged. In general it shouldn't spall so much when hit.
Gaijin still thinks that the M1A2 -> SEP V2 have the same armor from the Swedish trials which was an export tank without DU.
@@Kwisss prove it. No one has proven it yet.
Yeah, it is a very big drawback on small and narrow maps. In my opinion, on biger maps its not that much of an issue if you are constantly on the move. Still frustrating nonetheless.
I completely agree, the biggest thing is that autocannon light vehicles can kill you through that area pretty quickly, especially at close range.
@@SeanFickenI don't play top tier, but doesn't the t series have a similar problem where you can easily pen its 80mm lower frontal plate?
Similar as in it doesn't matter at high distances
Honestly a lot of the game could be improved by just having better maps
It boils down to
IRL it’s not an issue because tank combat is different and usually Long range, and the usage of tank sights and actually aiming
However in War Thunder where most tank combat is under 1km and you have point and click mouse and gun barrel pov it’s A lot easier to exploit the weak spots of vehicles
Like the T series of tanks. The drivers optics is basically the same as the Abrams turret ring. Hit there and there’s a good chance the tank dies.
Have top tier for both Soviet and US.
US weak point is worse than Soviet 100%. Yeah Soviet tanks also have weakpoint like LFP and the drivers optics like you mention. However Hitpoint for drivers optic is considerably small compared to Abram’s turret ring weak point. Hence why its much easier to kill Abrams than T series. Disclaimer: This is all based on my personal experience. Your experience might be different.
@@LAMASTA-e7zYea but u have 95+ percent chance of killing T-series tank with LFP shot. So it's a skill issue
@@MareWT lower frontal plate is a weak point on every fucking tank, Hell many times the lower frontal plate isn’t even exposed depending on the map and situation so what are you on about? The Abrams has a huge weak point it’s not a “skill issue” it’s a game implementation issue
@@MareWT but you have 100% of killing Abram with turret ring. I never said T series are harder to kill. All tanks are easy to kill but Abrams have much easier weakpoint kill. Why do you think US top tier has 30% win rate then? And I wasn’t comparing LFP lol i did admit that LFP is the weakpoint.. please read my comments again. My comment was about Driver optics vs turret ring.
@@Sujamma_Enjoyer exactly… and this comment was about drivers optics vs turret ring. Where did she come up with LFP 😂
Why everyone else needs to have a turret ring weakspot but the abrams is the exception?
Who said anything about it not having tbat
@@fissis1955 because US mains are bad.
I remember hearing that the weakspot under the gun is a real thing, it's just that in real life you don't control tanks with a mouse and as such it's a one in a million kind of shot in the engagement range that tanks are at in real life. So they never really did anything about it.
I think one Abrams in Ukraine taken out exactly like this by Russian t72.
It's definitely a weak spot in real life, the gun has to depress, so they can't put as much armor there, one thing about it, it would be extremely lucky to hit as in a combat situation you don't have the time to aim the precisely.
It is a real thing but the turret ring weakspot is overexaggerated in WT. In real life the turret ring height is actually smaller and in game it's not modelled with volumetric which means it's only like 50mm of RHA while in real life its more like 250mm+ RHA.
@@raphaelsantiago9387 and from where do you know that did you build the tank ? All these peoples saying stuff like that and think its the truth ... just accept that WT is a game and not real life
@@ThePadadadaeven more reason to make the turret ring stronger so it doesnt get penned by WW2 tanks.
Well the biggest problem is the turret ring gives about 1/5 the LOS thickness it should at about 50mm while even measuring using Gaijin's own model shows it's LOS thickness should be about 250mm. Not enough to make it immune to any tank dart but it'd at least keep it from being shredded frobtally by autocannons.
bug report it then
@@LeNathDuNet It's already been reported and acknowledged, they simply haven't done anything about it.
The problem is that the abram front top plate should be able to be penetrated like a butter with modern afpsds. But the gaijin decided to make it bounce
@@Brian-qj4kk That 38mm plate had bounced M829A1 before, what crack are you smoking? The only round that could reliably penetrate it is 3BM42
Yeah the problem is that gaijin very peculiarly chooses what to make real and what to make up.
the biggest issue is the comical amount of spalling the turret ring does and the comically large snapshot every top tier mbt has on you, meanwhile t-XX's a dramatically smaller vehicle if you shoot drivers port will most of the time only kill the driver and maybe the breach and their only weakspot that can somewhat reliably kill them is the lower which means there's pretty much 0 places you can snapshot and disable or kill T-XX's
Shoot T series tanks in the fuel tank, they explode 50% of the time now and no longer eat rounds and their spalling entirely. That is if you have a clear shot. If they're hull down yeah good luck.
Honestly ever since last patch the most annoying tanks to fight have been the Leopard 2A5/6/7 as their hull armor is good at an angle and the spall liner stops side shots from one shotting them. Can't aim for the turret ring since there is none/cheeks eat rounds. Even center of mass front shots don't always do more than kill the driver so it's really a 25% chance of you actually managing to kill it.
@@yomaster12345 Pretty sure the Leopard turret ring weak spot disappeared into obscurity after certain model changes and volumetric. I used to hit that spot all the time but no longer can... 😔😔
The SEP v3 has increased armor in the turret cheeks. The upper front plate was thickened to 51mm. The edge of the turret cheeks where they meet the mantlet is thicker in images. DU armor would be hard to "model" since Gaijin doesn't know the effectiveness, but I'm sure they could do a bit of math related to density to figure out RHA equivalent. I'm not sure if the LFP got any armor upgrades.
in game DU armor is modelled, on the M1A2 Specifically due to the turret cheeks being impenetrable by KE rounds, sepv3 also had a DU hull insert for the LFP.
@@ThatOneBoomer_Hehe It isn’t modeled, because the M1A2 SEP is supposed to have 3rd generation cheek inserts yet it has the same value as the M1A2
@@TheRealSteve42 Yea, but on the m1a2 you can notice the KE protection being way thicker than the m1a1, but it is the same on every m1a2 model, DU shells are also modelled, but only past m829 i think
I found out the m1 abrams have over 1000mm of armor protection meaning was thunder dose the m1 Abrams dirty
A Russian game making American tanks weak isn't surprising.
might have some short comings but i still like the abrams no matter what
It's definitely a good tank, especially with that 5 second reload.
@@SeanFicken yeah 5 reload is hella fine its the main reason why i also to got 13 kills
I agree!
The list of problems that cause this weak spot is fairly expansive. Least of which is Gaijin's modelling of the tank.
Number one is that engagement distances are super short (although so are the pen table distances) leading to being able to pick exactly where on the target you want to hit. But you also have to consider the differences in optics where real world optics, especially thermals, give much less target detail and are harder to see through. And the optics in war thunder realistic battles are located inside the barrel of the gun so you don't need to compensate for parallax. The controls of a tank turret are also less precise in reality.
But also even with the reality of the ufp being designed to shatter apfsds (I suspect gaijin treats apfsds rounds the same as any ww2 era solid shot because it was likely easier that way so until they make apfsds degrade it'll be that way) it still wouldn't matter much as long as the tanks can pick their shot as in the real world the round getting rammed between the turret and hull at mach 4+ would still likely weld the turret to the hull or otherwise leave the turret broken.
yeah the problem is they modelled apfsds like ww2 rounds. in reality any apfsds richochet would result in most of the shell desintegrating and losing almost all of its penetration power, but in war thunder they richochet like ww2 AP rounds and only lose a little bit of penetration from small deflections. if they were modelled right then the abrams turret ring wouldnt be a trap shot for apfsds making only a direct hit to the ring a penetration, rather than a hit to the back of the upper plate or the bottom of the turret richochet into the ring for a pen. literally all it would require them to do is set every apfsds shell to have much less pen after richochet. an apfsds shell after a richochet is definitely not penetrating more than 100mm of rhs equivalent. in reality abrams turret ring would be as hard to pen as a leo2 turret ring because it should be a trap shot for apfsds. it would be a trap shot for actual AP shells the would simply get lodged in there and jam the turret, but only low br abrams would see any AP shells.
@@thisfeatureissostupidin reality apfsds with 400-700 pen will just go straight through ufp with 280mm los protection. Yes even partially damaged
As a Russian main that finally branched off into completing USA, Sweden, France, China and Germany. I've realized that its 100% the players. The US has a great top tier line up but everyone fails to utilize the strengths of the US. About 80% of the time if a US player dies they leave the game, and I can't tell if the majority of them or either blind or bots. Every single time I get teamed up with them even as Russia, I lose. There should be a serious case study opened up for US players on why they preform so poorly. I even saw them lose against a Full British team kek.
Honestly the reason they lose is it’s almost everyones first tree
I agree that is the real issue, especially after the reload rate buff. M829A2 is the best 120mm L44 ammo, coupled with a 5 second reload. Ideally if you get hit you made a mistake. That being said the turret armor on the M1A2 is quite strong, strong enough to deal with all but the most powerful rounds in game. It has all of that going for it and yet people still perform very poorly.
I’m a decent Abrams player but I only bring 1 Abrams because I know for a fact that my team is going to melt immediately quicker than the enemy and it’s frustrating that Russian players can heli rush with Ka-50/52 at the start of the game.
_cough cough_ *Constant US top tier premium spam* _cough_
This would all be solved with a level requirement for premium tanks at higher BRs/ranks. Of course, I know that would never ever happen because Gaijin is waaay too greedy to exclude new players from buying their shiny new 75$ pack premium.
I’m going to try to put bushes on my Abrams to help with this
When I finally get an Abrams…
bushes don't help trust
Don’t listen they do help. Put it on your jumbo mg port and you’ll see a huge increase in survival
it won't help due to the sheer size of the weakpoint. This isn't 6.0 where people are still learning the game. Everyone knows the exact spot to kill an Abrams.
If the bushes are big enough, yes it will help as they may hit the composite armor instead of the ring. Sincerely, owner of a rare 6-pack of bushes.
People who complain to Gaijin should forward their complaints to General dynamics because it's their design flaw not gaijin's.
It's a balancing issue Gaijin needs to deal with as the amount of damage you take from being shot in that weakspot is insane compared to other MBTs at top tier
I'm not sure you could even call it a "design flaw", so much as an example of how wunderwaffen simply don't exist in real-life.
Designing anything as complex as a main battle tank is inevitably going to result in certain compromises and straight up unfixable mistakes, as a result of real-life factors, including changing requirements, cost cutting, bureaucratic lack of accountability etc.
Anyone who believes that an invulnerable MBT is something that is even plausible, let alone fielded by any active military, is likely below the age of 25 and simply doesn't understand how reality works.
Except irl, the turret ring is much thicker, may actually be shorter than is modeled in game, and the LFP isn’t a weakspot.
@@devendoffing7004 might be thicker but definitely not as armored as the turret and the LFP, highly doubt it would stop a modern APFSDS anyway.
@@haythemsandel8303 it wouldn’t to a direct hit, but it likely would to a deflecting shot off the UFP, since irl the shell would shatter
If I recall, there were attempts to up-armor the front of the hull, particularly the upper glacis, and they basically said "yep, can't do it," because it would either blind the driver or interfere with obstacle clearance. I'm kinda surprise that penetration isn't possible near the treads on the hull even given the nose armor just given the round being thrown at it.
Yeah, I just fell like that US players cannot understand that even their tanks have weak spots and the fact that IRL they are just not upgrading the hull because it is not possible due to vision and space problems
The trouble is real tanks don’t engage from 200m away in 99/100 engagements. Neither does the camera sit on the front of the barrel. Yes sim and options allows for correct sight placement. Furthermore, although accuracy of the shells are great, they are not accurate to say literal inches of dispersion so the armour is amazing when firing from long distances as the “weak spots” are tiny at those distances but not in Warthunder.
If you want to play a game, play GHPC. If you want to play poker, play Bug Tunder
The Abrams is suffering from a mewing addiction 😭
Not so much an issue when peeking over hills. But most other tanks at each abram’s BR generally have a round that can penetrate you from most areas. In some cases, even your turret cheeks aren’t safe (base M1A1 is the biggest offender here, facing DM53 without the upgraded turret cheek armor). It’s kind of sad, really. At the end of the day, the Abrams really is just a mediocre tank at best- a glass cannon, if you will, but only until M900/M829A1
while you can hide it when going hull down, there are also a lot of city maps where you can't hull down, thus you cannot hide your turret ring.
@@SeanFicken it’s not even the turret ring being the biggest issue, the hull armor is incredibly weak. I assume you used M774 for every comparison between the different tanks in this vid?
By comparison the Leopard 2A4's hull provides less protection (300mm vs KE) and is at the same BR, the hull on the M1 is between 380 to over 400mm in some spots (against long rod penetrators). This will lead to a conclusion that to any gun with something like 120mm DM23 or higher in performance is able to deal with most of the area on the base M1 at decent range. The LFP armor becomes a much bigger issue starting with the M1A1/IPM1 Because you face a lot stronger ammo.
As per my last comment on the video, even if somehow we get a SEP V3 with enough hull protection against modern rounds, that turret ring will still get in the way and that is the subject I made this for.
imo abrams work well if used at the right range and position the problem is warthunder is full of flat shitty small ass maps even on top tier
forcing people to brawl and thats where the other team could easily exploit the turret ring lot of it is skill issue on clickbait players but I think maps really dictates the meta in this fuqqing game
could only pray not to get teamed up with US right now until we get more big maps
Also general player skill has plummeted in the past year or two so good players on the US teams suffer because they end up having to carry more weight throughout a match thanks to their poor teammates.
@@mono9702Agreed. Nothing makes me more upset than spending 7 minutes in a heli to drive my first ground vehicle in a match and be the last teammate alive
@@mono9702Agreed. Nothing makes me more upset than spending 7 minutes in a heli to drive my first ground vehicle in a match and be the last teammate alive
I got all my 30mm and 57mm auto cannons out these days due to all the Clickbait. The Clickbait is so easy to kill with auto cannons, does matter from front or side. 😂😂
Realistic models if you count made up russian nonsense as reality
Ukrainian bradley famously damaged the T-90s turret ring that is about half as visible on it with autocannon fire, this is just simple geometry.
Even if you made the turret cheeks and lower plate 1000 mm it won’t help, the Abrams has one of the biggest weak spots even if it was realistic I highly doubt the ring and the front plate would stop anything or negate damage
The turret ring IRL is WAY smaller and the way they model APFSDS isn’t realistic when you get into angles like that. Even the deflection off the UFP would essentially destroy an APFSDS and cause it to tumble, making it completely unable to penetrate anything off a ricochet, especially another heavily angled thing.
irl the turret ring isnt near that exposed, and the armor is roughly 200mm, not 50mm as modeled, idk if you have any way to see one irl, but if you do you can see a very noticeable difference
@@Anarcho-harambeism around 300mm actually
go to a museum and climb inside an Abrams. Take a look at the ring, now step outside and check out the gap.... there isn't really one. Not like in WT. No round has ever gone in the turret ring of a real abrams because it would get squeezed and destroyed.
Homework is your friend before vomiting out bullshit.
@benrodir2 I do wish we had more abrams around, I have to leave my state to see one. But an m60 or sherman is 20mins away
That damned lower glacis is causes headache in every br i think
You can tell people who whine about the Abrams never play other nations like Italy or Japan where their MBTs have a weakspot as large as the whole tank
Or just play 2A7HU or the upcomming Benelux Leo...
Leopard isn't just a Gold Standard it's the ultimate form of MBT.
Japan's tanks aren't about face to face engagements that's why their armor is so bad, they're literally the perfect tanks for flanking because of their great mobility coupled with the best reload rate at top tier.
And nobody plays Italy either way
Italian tanks ain't about face to face combat either
@@Jump-Shackactually every tank ain't about face to face combat either 😂
What if they just put a skirt on the front that would cause rounds to deflect away or break up so it doesn't hit the ring?
the skirt would likely have to be very thick and be hard to justify the weight and space considering in real life tanks are rarely destroyed by being hit in the turret ring from the front and its not as easy to do like in a video game.
In real life, tanks have different FCS (Fire Control System) quality. In war thunder, every FCS is the same for every tank except for autocannons. Dispersion of the APFSDS round is practically 0 on EVERY tank, and thats where the turret ring problem comes into play, in reality, the turret ring would be a one in a billion shot, be it medium-long range, and even in close ranges it is still incredibly difficult. War thunder ignores alot of irl problems that really play a difference as to how the tanks perform.
@@scorched8198 Considering that a shot hitting about a good 15 or so percent of the abrams from the front is likely to be directed into the turret ring or penetrate the driver's hatch, I wouldn't exactly call it a 1 in a billion shot. That being said, if by "skirt" we mean something like on T-90M, it's a good idea. But it would have zero impact on apfsds, making it practically useless in War Thunder.
@@miguellopez3392 I'm not saying one so thick it would STOP something, just break it up as a last ditch if reactive armor is gone or just not on the tank.
Be eseentially a "get out of jail free" card where the skirt gets destroyed, the ring probably still takes some damage, but maybe not enough to disable?
Also, might need to clarify, I mean a skirt that is on the body of the tank going upward curving in toward the ring, kinda like a lid for a bowl, just flip the bowl upside down, glancing shots would be partially directed upward even if it wasn't particurally thick
@@Nate_the_Nobody I know what you meant by skirt since I've thought of similarly fixes for the issue, but when considering tank design there are many factors to consider and not the ones you consider first, many of the tank kills ive seen in this war have been mostly from a sidewards angles, so it may appear as 15% from just the front but can be closer to 5% when common angles of attack and so you would have to armor the sides as well to achieve a significant survivalbility gain, this then now adds weight and reduces room, now designers have to consider if the slight increase in overall protection outweighs the slight decrease in combat capabilities of the MBT, this cam be a hit or a miss depending on what war you send a tank to. The gulf war required more frontal armor, the Ukranian war requires more HEAT munition protection on every angle as it's not a tank vs tank war where APDSF is used like the gulf.
LoL I think that russians are way worse when it comes to weakspots. Driver's hatch,lower front armor weak and you can one shot it from side cause of ammo rack. Allmost same weakspots except abrams can sometimes survive from side shots.
drivers hatch and lower front plate are both much smaller and harder to hit on T-series tanks
@@ryangoslingIRL Except the turret ring is just extremely incosistent on the Abrams. Either OHK or volumetric bs and do nothing. LFP usually only kill the driver, fuel tank will eat the sharpnels or block any shell that's not a 11.3 APFSDS. It's not as bad as you think
@@ryangoslingIRL its not
Also t serie tanks have higer roof weakspot and you need to pray to rngesus so your era works
Lower hull plate buff is pointless till they fix ther ring
It's better than nothing, trust me.
Whatever you do the abrams still have useless armor because of this ring also the lower glacias is dead
You would also find on the base M1 the gunner side turret is just as vulnerable as the lower front plate. In some areas the hull is better protected than that side of the turret.
Its all fun and games until my m1a2 is getting killed straight through turret cheeks by 2a7
no my abrams dont suffer from this problem, because I dont play bad tanks
The way Warthunder aiming model is made is what makes the Abrams really bad the easy mouse aim now if they made it like GHPC style of aiming because thats what IRL tanks are like it would be extremely hard to hit that spot now what I do think should happen is They should add the M829A3 that would make the abrams slightly better
Even forcing realistic gun sight location the offset means that when u close enough to pcik those spots its a bit hard.
So you want automatic tracking, lead, basically aimbot so long as it has realistic controls
@@williewilson2250 Tanks dont have aimbot and thats called a ballistic computer no such thing as aimbot and did I say that in my comment no but yes that does need to be in the game will it be useful not really because most of the people who kill you in game are people who are not moving
@@keithsimpson2685 I said nothing about offset aiming and offset aiming is already in warthunder its called Sim Battles and commander sight and I never said anything about realistic gunsights I said Realistic Aiming such as when you move your mouse its like GHPC it will keep moving until you stop it by going left or clicking right mouse button to auto stop it
@@WyattChilson Target lead was introduced 50 years ago on T-64B. In war thunder FCS are non-existent, every tank works as sight follows the gun like it's 1944.
The issue is the ammunition the M1/KVT are using the spalling and pen is literal steaming hot dogsht and I refuse to play this garbage game until USA gets buffed as it should be. No other nation at 10.3 has ammunition as shitty as M774.
Russian Thunder say they want vehicle manuals, but all of US tanks are classified, so even if someone leaked classified manuals, they wouldn't fix it anyway and thats how they get away with neutering USA.
Meanwhile when Russian Devs see something in Ukraine like a T-72 tanking some sort of cheap RPG, they change ALL Russian tanks in the game, ammunition in the Carousel "disappear" when hit with molten hot DU or Tungsten shrapnel or ERA bags tank 600+ pen APFSDS.
But a fking Ka-50 can top down hit the blowout panels "ammo rack" a US Abrams and instantly kill the crew because that's totally how blowout panels work IRL.
at some point, youll learn to play and take proffit of the USA nation's strenghts, the more you play other nations, the more you notice their own issues. You will keep complaining about things you dont know shit until you play the other side. This comes from a 5k hour player btw, i really recommend you to get better or play other nations in order to talk about this, otherwise you are just spreading missinformation and missleading players
Massive skill issue, never experienced these problems, sucks to suck
@@lodickasvlajeckou Didn't ask don't care.
@@gasparferrandisromero1075 I can't agree with this more. I used to get so tired of listening to all the russian bias bs since I played USSR as the starting nation. Got top tier in US, USSR and SWE with both ground and air and with each passing tech tree I got better and better since I knew every in and out of my opponent's tank/plane as I played these vehicles.
@@Tomoyo86 I have played to top tier those nations too, and I can tell, USSR is really not that good, not even close to be considered biased. Just as good as the other big three. Sweden is probably the most op thing in the entire game. All of it.
Abrams armour is fine as long as you don’t brawl… If you try and brawl you are done for. It’s nice for sniping with the good shell, turret cheek armour and good sights
kinda hard when 80% of the maps are litterally kissing each other's asses the entire game
i bet that under gun weakspot isnt anywhere as bad itl and same with the turret ring weakspot too
It would result in a knocked out tank, but probably won't kill all the crew like it does in War Thunder. The biggest thing about the M1 over the M60 is survivability, the armor is significantly better than the M60, but on penetration you will survive a lot more in the M1 thanks to modern fire suppression systems, blow out panels etc...
There is an acknowledged bug report on the turret ring which would buff it to make it completely autocannon proof, so say goodbye to 2S38 and similar vehicles being able to pen it if the report gets implemented.
@@SeanFicken Yeah, but IRL no tank could accurately target something that small, look and Gunner Heat PC and Steel beasts footage, it takes luck or a ambush to aim for that
This video is about M1 in war thunder, comparing it to IRL performance or that of other games/sims isn't relevant.
@@SeanFicken yea WT has the documents so they are the only one legit. clap.
I love playing against abrams tanks. You just take bmp2m or 2s38 with aphe and mass kill them under the turret. It takes 1x30mm APFSDS shell to completely disable abrams if you shoot it under the turret and 2-3 more to kill (with firerate of bmp2m it takesl ike 1.5s) and for 2s38 APHE it's always a oneshot. I always use these vehicles to prove wrong people who call abrams best and (don't laugh) well protected MBT in the game.
People who think the abrams is the tankiest MBT are fooling themselves. It is very difficult to oneshot due to spaced out crew, but the armor is not the best. What the abrams excels at is mobility. The gas turbine gives it absurd mobility even in comparison to IFVs, you can regularly overtake IFVs on the way to caps
@@gnaruto7769 cough cough Later M1 variants which start to lose the mobility advantage cough
M1 Abrams is a great MBT in real life, but War thunder is a Russian propaganda fantasy game made to cater to Russian shills. The turret ring is not implemented correctly by Gaijin, it's too big, and is weaker than what it is in reality. But alas Russian company can't have the USA MBT outperform Russia, especially during wartime in Ukraine.
@@anferneejones7032then why is the mig29 and su27 underperforming flight model wise?
@@williewilson2250too much vodka
It's not Gaijins fault. As far as I'm concerned they modeled it correctly. Even if it was uparmored it wouldnt stop any 9.0 and Above APFSDS.
In real life you have really small chance of hitting weakspot but in war thunder any experienced player can hit it with relative ease.
You can just whine about turret ring untill Gaijin nerfs Strvs and Leopard 2A7s and adds bigger weakspots
They modelled the m1a1 and the a2 the same, And yes it is a modelling fault, on the M1A2 the turret neck weakspot was reduced, so it was not really a problem, and on the sep models it was reduced slightly more, But in warthunder the M1 through the M1A2 SEP V2 in warthunder all have the same turret neck dimentions. So no they did not model it correctly (This is coming from someone who saw m1 models and Some M1A2's IRL)
No, it is Gaijin’s fault. It is not modeled correctly. I made a bug report that was acknowledged sent to the developers as a suggestion. My bug report absolutely undeniably proves the turret ring is improperly modeled. No, it is not “whining,” it is simply just asking for something to be properly represented in the game.
With the addition of the fuel cell bulkheads bug report these two changes would significantly improve the survivability of the vehicle. I actually have pictures saved of thicker armor on the vehicle from the inside, which were shared in one of these bug reports and then removed from the public eye by Gaijin.
That boot leather must taste really good...
Amazing how much people will suck up to multi-million dollar companies to avoid criticizing them.
@@TheRealSteve42 Bro even if you doubled the protection in the turret ring it would still get penned.
Gaijin players acting like they real tankers lmao…. They have an Abrams sitting outside on range road here in Vegas and that shits smaller than 12’ 3” clearance of a semi and you can snipe that ring from half a mile. Fuck outta here if you think Russia is keeping up
Shouldn’t spall so much since it’s so incredibly thin
I have had the Abrams for around 3 months now and have only been hit in the ring like 3 times lol... probably just lucky
Fellow top tier U.S main I didn’t use to notice it at first either but give it another six months and start watching most of your kill cams you’ll find most of your WTF how did he get me moments are the turret neck
if the turret ring Is so bad on the Abram’s then the drivers port on t-series tanks should be just as awful, since they seem to just deflect shots despite being a major weak spot irl
My beloved driver's view port, eats the whole m829a2 shell for breakfast
Yeah, calling warthunder top tier models realistic isn't exactly true. They are very selectively realistic, especially when it comes to specific components like this.
The drivers port isn’t anywhere near the size of the Abrams turret ring
gaijin model the abram with a big ass turret ring also the armor is about 200mm not 50 because the turret has to be fix.
All i know is no Abrams has been lost to that shot under the breach so it shouldn't be a thing
Things that happen IRL should not automatically apply to War Thunder. War Thunder is a video game.
IRL isn’t the same as in game. IRL head to head tank combat within 1000 meters isn’t that common.
There is a recorded hit the turret ring that happened irl, It only killed the gunner (friendly fire event) Spalling is exaggerated in game which is why that shot deals so much damage in game.
@@SeanFickenyeah the game would need to be massively rebalanced if spalling was made realistic.
If I don’t killed the other person on one shot I turn my turret slightly so they can’t shoot that spot
then they just shoot side of turret or hull
@@abloccofcheezz513 I’m always going against shit I can’t pen it pisses me off in the Abram’s
a 76mm form a m4 can pen the m1 form the front and yes iv done it in rb just to make sure it was not me
Somehow gaijin thinks that's realistic
@@TheTeehee11111 thats what happens when you make a game with "realistic" armor but not look at how armor works
a bt7 can frontally pen a 1 shot a Leclerc. The M1 situation isn't nearly as bad...
@@vizender are you talking about the bt-7 f32? its the only bt 7 that can pen the mbt form the front and 1 shot it at 0yards i looked at it
@@tigergameing-lc1xd I’ve uninstalled the game weeks ago and this can’t check, but I believe all bt5 and bt7 can pen the lower front plate of the Leclerc, and get a one shot with some luck
IRL that upper plate would not ricochet modern APFSDS
It's too thin to bounce
It’s was specifically designed to be at an angle to shatter any APFSDS shell that hit the UFP.
It usually doesn’t, in game. But anything can happen at the right angles
@@an000n in game it almost never does, but irl it is supposed to
@@Floopusswhile true for early APFSDS rounds used by the Soviets (steel body and tungsten slog cores), later monolithic rounds like DM33 or M829A1 have zero problems penetrating such a thin plate.
@@an000n early on, it did happen often, they artificially nerfed it after people complained.
M1a1 or other variant should have more armor we just dont know what it look like
Seeing the influx of even more Click Bait players with the sale it's first and foremost a player base issue. I've never had an easier time farming oblivious players making suicidal plays 🤷
Not saying the Abrams are strong in-game, they're not... But they're mobile and punchy... But that mobility is actually what kills all the newbies even faster 🤷
The Fuji players manage a lot better... How do you explain that? It's super chewy. It relies solely on its mobility for survival.
Think the 4 second reload also helps the fuji and the turret is troll also.
M1 is one of the weakest mbt on wt
Only the ariete is sadder
It has dm53 but less penn and more reload than leo
@@Harry-wx3nf zNo armor too
Japanese MBTs are trivial to pen and yet overperform Abrams variants any day. From all I see there's a very serious playerbase issue.
I fight KVTs, AIMs and Click Baits in droves both in my RU 11.7 and my SWE 10.3 lineups and the amount of kamikaze runs, bad positioning, rushed shot that do no crippling damage if at all... Even PzBtl 123 players, while being the second worst prem players in my eyes, don't misplay nearly as bad.
I have no rational explanation for that but the Abrams, while having some glaring weakspots, are not bad tanks meta wise. Mobile, fast-reloading, agile (good gun characteristics)...
RU MBTs are as easy to one-tap or at least cripple to hell. The breech is weak and the size of a small church. LFP is made of unstable nitroglycerin...
@@MozzaBurger88Japanese are more often matched with russia or Germany than the us because they're a minor nation. The US players do very well between 5.0-9.3
@@MozzaBurger88 i can firmly say Abrams in war thunder is actually a good tank, most american players have not played other nations, therefore they dont know which are the strenghts and wekneases of both sides. So they perform badly because of that
I have a very simple solution for the Abrams. Give the crewmembers Flack jackets in place of spall liners.. there’s nothing we can do about the armor unfortunately we fought terrorism for 20+ years. We never fought a military with tanks shooting Sabo rounds at us. The armor package has been upgraded for to stop heat rounds. RPG’s and so on. Sorry guys let’s face it. The Abrams was a great tank in its day, but it is a relic of the 1990s.
There are modernized Abrams that are still under top secret status and thus the info isn't for the public. I read a comment on another site from a tanker crewman who was in combat with the Abrams and said the War Thunder Abrams is not accurately modeled, that area isn't as weak in real life.
@@Lofi.z34 Well as much as I would like to believe that since I'm American and I want the Abrams to do good you also have to understand that that's a bold claim that has no actual proof that can be brought forth. the game can only go off of public data and public data for the Abrams is pretty bad. but what do people consider bad? Because the tank has been upgraded and adapted to fight in a terrorist environment with IEDS and Rpgs, not to stop any kinetic threats whatsoever. not to mention there is zero armor on top of these tanks why do you think Russian tanks have reactive armor on top? To counter against American top down munitions. it's a pretty easy fix remove all of the aging armor from the Abrams Turret upgrade it and upgrade the whole to a modern standard
flak jackets dont stop the tungsten APFSDS spall that is travelling at the speed of a rifle round
@@ChristandMMA it’ll serve the same function as a spa liner. Thank you for your comment. next!
@@Spearhead45 no it wont, a spall liner is far thicker than a simple flak jacket, i remind you a flak jacket is barely rated IIIA in terms of body armor ballistic ratings, a spall liner is far thicker and more capable, + a flak jacket only protects the torso, what about arterial bleeds in the limbs, neck and face? not to mention it would likely break ribs and bruise if the spall doesnt penetrate the flak jacket
It a 40 year old tank/design there a reason the m1e3 will bring massive changes.
The e3 is know also as abrams x
@@alinaasandei9172 that was used as a demenstration to show how fast the us can make a new upgrade
Demo vehicles are what the company does to show off new technology, the military will pick what they want from the demo vehicle for the actual next design.
@@alinaasandei9172thats a tech demonstator/showoff.
Isn’t the turret ring modeled completely incorrectly?
sounds like cope
@@topbanana.2627 ? Are you is stupid ?
@@topbanana.2627 in what way?
@@GrindThunderer in the way that you just need a bit of common sense to know its a pretty nasty shot trap. Even with the 35mm protection on the ring or whatever it had it would be no where near enough to stop much. Especially with pc aim
@@topbanana.2627 irl shot traps don’t exits with apfsds… also the Abrams turret sits quite a lot lower irl then in game.
They need to add the sepv3 since it has without a doubt du in the hull. It would help a little.
Extra hull armor honestly wouldn't improve the Abrams that much more than what people think. Think about it: You're placing more armor in an area people already don't shoot at often and possibly increasing your weight thus nerfing your mobility. What they really need to buff/add to the Abrams is someone like an armor buff to the gun shield, balance out the damage received from being shot in the turret ring weak spot, and/or fix the upper front plate being a shot trap into the breach/turret ring.
@mono9702 I main the abrams and people shoot there just as often as the turret ring. A shots a shot people take them.
@@mono9702 LFP shots are still relatively common, and usually will one shot since the crew is so close together and there's 2 fuel tanks in the front of the hull that cause fuel explosions
@@mono9702the ufp will always be a weak spot, even irl
Idk if a shot to the turret ring would destroy the Abrams irl, but I view this problem as the equivalent to the soviet/russian tanks which have terrible reverse speed and low gun depression by design
It would disable the tank permanently, info I have found about turret ring damage is that it typically is something you can't repair easily. Besides that if It didn't hit crew they could escape and live another day.
@@SeanFickenuse logic, if a long rod penetrates an area with no base armour, just to hit the turret ring, it wouldn’t stop that, this whole argument that the turret neck isn’t a weak spot when in reality it is, why would the logic of armour penetration of apfsds not apply to the abrams, just because it’s an abrams?
@@avoxyisbetterthanyou We're not saying that it's NOT a weak spot, but rather that as a weak spot it destroys the playability of the Abrams because of it's function in game.
As well as a ton of other factors that come into play that hinder US top tier performance as a whole
@@mono9702 , abrams have been eating 2 or 3 shots all day, I have been playing all day at this point and I have killed more 2a7 one shot that abrams, anyone who says america suffers because of the abrams itself should really look at there stats and see the problem
Also above the breech with a good round, you can knock out the breech and ignite the 1st stage ammo. 😂
Also anything with a minimum of 100-120mm pen can pen the whole frontal ring not just under the breech.
Easiest 1-2 shot mbt.
However i often get 8-10 kills in both TTAG and TTRB with a simple peek a boo shots, i get my barrel/breech shot but i repair and load quicker than most😂.
These tanks are glass cannons, same for Type 90 or Type 10 but those have even less 😂
Definitely easiest MBT to one shot
If the spall liner actually worked on this tank in the game, it would make this a way tougher tank
Dont think the abrams ever had spall liner, but it did have a 20mm thick (I believe) Turret basket which acted as a spall liner, but a spall liner would be the entire tank, it also has some 20mm RHA covering the fuel tanks and surrounding the driver.
The UFP!!!! I dont feel the armour of it its not Auto ricochet
It's not an auto richochet if the enemy is above you correct.
@@SeanFicken :O well shi on long ranges the enemy will just laser rangefinder me and the APFSDS will actually arc and the angle of the UFP will be useless at that point
laughing in Ariete
I penned the front of an Ariete PSO with m774, pipe down lil bro
@@ThatOneBoomer_Hehe thats the joke, Ariete can be penned by 90mm HEAT, so Abrams players crying about shit armor is funny
@@ThatOneBoomer_Hehe that was the joke man, ariete's got shitty armor and can be penned by short n long 88's like the tiger H1 so murica players crying about the weakspot is funny
The biggest flaw of the abrams is the same as the rest of war thunder, bad maps and modes
just give the m1a2 and the 11.3 varients a spall liner in the turret ring. that will make it actually difficult to klll
@@boffa-deezsource: your username
@@blanchbacker source the us army lol they don't have spall liners why you flaming him ?
@@privite55it does though, the Canadian army when receiving M1s said that they were upgraded with spall liners
@@ara_orun8184 we never took m1s bud we have only operated the leopard2 if that one specifically sent to Canada for evaluation had one it was only put in at the request of the Canadian army
the US. army never fielded it with a spall liner
@@boffa-deez I know the us doesn’t use spall liners. Or at least they tell us that(also Abram’s is not a dumpster fire) but literally ever single aspect of top tier is guessed, so it wouldn’t hurt to make it actually competitive
you can also over pressure from the commander mg
M1a2 sep proved this wrong
I have the sepv2, its good but the neck will stay an issue
I have the opposite problem. I get hit in the lfp more
Personally, I solved that issue by going either urban shooting first and then 5 second reload go brrr or just getting to a good hull down position.
tbf that is a VERY small zone to hit. Complete front and turret check protection. Leos on the other hand you can just point and click anywhere on them.
The turret is to high they raised it when it came to the game, and the turret ring is too thin. And shells don't shatter
If you are talking about the 2a4 Leo then yes if its any of the leos after that, idk what you have been smoking, but literally hitting the M1's weak spot on any of the tanks is so easy even if you are 1km away
why the turret ring always break in every shot i take when i play m1a1? Dont even need a direct hit on it to break and removes completely the option to fireback... I feel that 80% of the time i die because the ring is broke... I dont have this problem on other nations tanks
Yeah it’s modeled incorrectly because irl the angle of the turret gap is meant to shatter apfsds rounds with only a ten mm straight look into the turret ring but in wt shattering isn’t a mechanic and it just bounces straight in
@@kick0777well, it used to be a mechanic, and *everyone* hated it, not just M1 players, so I'm guessing gaijin has picked their "lesser of two evils"
0:07, leopard is better at that, more armored better apfsds and same mobility
idk why people glaze m1 so much, literally worst nato tank at 10.3 imo, m60-2000 is better than this (once again imo)
He was talking about irl and throughout history. And even in warthunder he didn't say it was amazing. Nobody glazes the Abrams in warthunder. It's objectively stupid hard to use and is only good because of it's reload.
Everyone losing their minds that the M1 Abrams is turning out to be kind of a cruddy tank in comparison to the rest of NATO and even Russia forgetting that the M1 is a 1970's design. To put it in prospective the T-90 was made in the 1990's... China's main battle tank was made in the 2000's. I know it's a hard pill to swallow but the M1 is getting outdated.
Even with that though, they omit how the turret ring is designed to shatter APFSDS
The T90 is based off of an older tank, and the chinese tank is Chinese
Flawed logic. The first T90 was just a T72 with different ERA (and a new FC system of course, so it could finally shoot and hit accurately moving targets while moving itself, which the original T72 could not do). So by your own loigic, the basic T90 is based on a 1975 tank as well.
And even China's first modern tank (the ZTZ-99) was more or less just a reverse-engineered copy of the Russian T90, although the Chinese tank did have more modern equioment (for example the ZTZ99 was one of the first modern MBT in the world in 1999 featuring a modern Digital Battlefield Management System with GPS maps; the only other tank at that time with similar capabilities was the American M1A2 Abrams)
t-90 is based off of the t-72. autoloader, general shape etc, just different armor which is exactly like the abrams. blow out panel, general shape stay the same, while the abrams armor gets improved over time as the video shows, just like the russian's. the russian tanks just have a different name for each improvement done to it. so it gives the illusion of the design changing when in actual its not. just because they change the number doesn't mean it's completely new lol
@@Tr_Fast
Not exactly. You are correct that it is based on the T72 hull, but the T90 has new equipment that the standard T72 didn't have, such as a thermal sight and modern Fire-Control computers that the standrd T72 entirely lacked, which greatly improved the effectivness of the T90 over the older Soviet tanks.
So the T90 was indeed a new tank when it entered service, even though it was still based on older tank design.
Just as the M1A2 was also a fairly new tank when it enteres service, although it is based on the older M1 design, but the design alone is not everything that matters.
The latest M1A2 Abrams has modern digital battlefield management system with GPS and Active Protection System, which the older tanks in the 1980's never had.
TL;DR it is the equipment and capabilities of the tank that make it new or outdated, not just the shape and form of the hull
They need to nerf the shit out of the Russian tanks too as the world now knows they're shit and WAY to good in game vs real life
Stupid argument, then they should add fpv drones and infantry weapons because those are the causes of majority of the russian tank kills. War Thunder is a game that balances both realistic mechanics and arcade mechanics. It isn't meant to fully recreate real life properties of tanks as that is simply impossible and also, just not fun. Also, all I hear is a skill issue. Edit:Not only that, why even bring up russian tanks in a video about the Abrams????
@@I_am_guilty_of_manslaughter Un-twist your panties and take a fucking joke, poutine-lover.
@@spankyjeffro5320Destroying Abrams 🤤🤤🤤🤤 in my glorious t90m 🤤🤤🤤🤤😎😎😎😎🗿🗿amerika bad 😡😡🤬🤬🤬. It's people like you that shouldn't have an opinion on balance changes, blinded by politics. Also, I didn't really understand the "joke" mind enlightening me? English isn't my first language after all.
Dude look at Thunder Skill, statistically top tier Russian tanks don't actually perform that well at the moment. Most countries average better K/Ds. The most overpowered thing about Russia is they don't have to be on the same team as the 5 year olds who play USA quite so often. That is why Russia has such good win rates.
@@CynicallyDepressedxperfectly said, the “Russian bias” is just that little timmy playing on his Xbox can’t do anything against a drunk tryhard
for me as a german your channel name is very sus
That is the only reason i just clicked on this video xD i needed to let him know what every german reads xD
Stronger lower glacis would help a lot, especially at longer distances.
this is staire, right? right??
@@iHateHandles2 How would it be, SEPv3 has a Depleted Uranium Lower Glacis, which would improve the KE thickness by alot and would make them almost as effective as the turret cheeks (Which are literally impenetrable to KE rounds on the M1A2 models)
One thing I learned about playing this shit game, is that in most cases, you can't blame the game
Blame the people and design firms that made your favorite tank so ass
No, not here - The Abrams is, designed, rather well. The issue is that, weak spots like the lower glacis and turret ring are inconsequential at best IRL. This is because that Abrams are meant to be employed hulldown - so the hull is hidden by terrain. As for the turret ring, tanks IRL engage from far, far longer than in WT - the ranges in WT tank combat may as well be considered point blank. Combine this with how irl tank aiming works, and hitting such a tiny target is nigh impossible. In order to remedy this, Gaijin would have to completely redesign GRB from the ground up - and make maps absolutely massive, a change that most people probably wouldn't find too fun. WT is a blend of realism and arcadeyness; they cannot change values like armor thickness willy-nilly, but they also cant 100% simulate everything that real combat has, and so you run into issues like this.
I felt that first sentence personally 😂😂😂😂😂
@@sharcc2511 long ass comment, but all tanks suck up close, the m1 and the leprd a6 and a7 are getting tickled in Ukraine
@@cloroxbleach6868 pretty much all tanks are vulnerable to mines and top attack. The real advantage NATO tanks have is crew survival since they dont usually eject their turrets.
@@duitk yeah
Except irl the whole ufp is a guaranteed kill spot anyway.
It only has 280mm los protection and unlike in game it won't ricochet apfsds let alone one with 500-700 mm pen
Only suited for t62 gun with 300mm pen
Only if you're above the Abrams, the upper front plate usually shatters APFSDS
The whole point of it is to richochet or break rounds.
@@goat0472 you can check ballistic simulations for that. Most APFSDS actually shater AND pen the UFP, which doesnt happen in war thunder
@@gasparferrandisromero1075 I'm going by the literal real life tests though
@@goat0472 those tests specified the round used? Since most simulations state 3bm60, DM53 to be able to pen it, which in game cannot
the turret ring weakspot is realistic
Real, these people just have skill issues
@@botstalker993 fr
No it's not. IRL the turret sits down inside of the hull slightly, creating some overlap between the hull and turret interface. Any round that hits this area should ricochet and deal minimal damage, but that doesn't seem to ever happen in WT.
@@kamraam1464 Show proof
@@kamraam1464 leak some documents then. XDDD
Let’s hope our enemies irl aren’t good at aiming .3.
There is aim assist in the game, with magnetism on different spots.
Play Sweden or USSR is the fix 😂
The thing is in ukrainian abrams got destroyed by hit on the ring
They they must be trained by war thunder
Source?
No they weren’t. All Ukrainian Abram’s losses have been from FPV drone hits.
seen the drone causing the ammo to explode and the blow out panel to work. but i have not seen a video of a abrams being penetrated through their turret ring?
No, where the hell did you get that information, even the abrams that was on display, got stuck because they left the rubber pads on, then got shot on the side with an atgm, the ammo went off, but the crew survived. Lol
American mains when their tank that is one of the most mobile mbts and has one of the best reloads isnt completly invulnerable from the front:
Usa mains always compained, are complaining and will continue to complain because propaganda and MUH DESERT STORM. Where it fought t54-55s and su100s using air recon and cas. Imagine 11.3 vs 8.3.
@@karkinos5398don't forget they complain so much the F15A got move back to 12.3 because how shit the players are
When Gaijin thinks the Abrams is just a crappier Type 10, yes there is a problem.
@@Iden_in_the_Rain btw the armor on the late abramses is bypassable, but its still able to withstand a lot and is much better then the type 10s. The early abramses do have worse aromor, but oh shit no Type 10 on 10.0
The issue is Gaijin's take on composite armor. The newer armor schemes on the later M1s are heavily classified, and Gaijin doesn't have much to go off of in terms of guessing. Some tanks can appear to be invulnerable from the front, but that's due to placement of armor/ERA. The turret ring on the Abrams is also a very easy weakspot to exploit as it's at "eye level" for most tanks. That applies to several tanks but you have a higher chance of disabling or outright killing an Abrams with the turret ring shot.
Dudes I dot understand why all american users complain about american tanks (..amd russian bias). Every tank has some weak spots, so what? I do not think Abrams are bad....you must know how to use them.
they suck in game
yes every tanks has weak spots but not all weak spots are the same for example a russian T Series sides are its weak spot at nearly any slight angle and its LFP but one is glaringly obvious and one depends on situation so seems the same but the LFP you have to hit correctly each and every time or you're round might just go TOO low the sides well ill blame the game for how trolly they are but I don't believe in russian bias so there just trolly sometimes, or leos swedish leos aka the strvs have strong turrets (could be getting this mixed actually but still apply) and strong hulls vs german leos have strong hulls and weaker turrets there weak spot is the lfp and gun shield respectively and yes both glaringly obvious but both have to be hit when a player isn't actively being smart to hide them and both are not exactly the easiest. Now come to the abrams its turret ring is well yes the glaring weak spot and the LFP is not so much is a weak spot the only issue that makes them so much more deadly and why people have right to say its a major knock on the tanks usefulness is the fact that glaring weak spot CANNOT be hid or skillfully pulled away unless in situations with long distance or hull down areas yes the previous two both can do the same but they also excel with skill at both long range and brawling if you know how to hide the weak spot the abrams forces you to specifically put it in ONE situation out of those two or cause the fact the turret ring is a one shot unlike the other twos glaring weak spots (yes the T Series can COMMONLY be one shot there) the ambrams is a lot MORE common do to crew position ammom lay out and module lay out you hit that spot if they don't die anyways that's the breach out the ammo most likely cooked out and the engine gone plus no turret ring its as good as dead vs a T series or leo having higher chances of being damaged but not dead in the water cause they can either hide or still have enough crew ammo and the right modules to fight back
(will happily add this edit to mention that yes I do not actually play abrams but from my experience in both russian t series and both german swedish and British mbts I have found it EXTREMLY and I mean EXTREMELY rare a ambrams survies its turret ring shot and at all gets to live more then a few seconds or is dead on the spot tho they are a MENACE in long range as explained via the video)
@@avaavalon2467 bla bla blad russian bias
cry more baby
@@VladQA-l6b uhhh... i dont t hink you read half of what i said ehh fine by me you believe what you want we all got our own issues
@@VladQA-l6b??
here we go again, why is it always the american crying the loudest?
I sont see an issue here...
What about this video is crying? I understand that the hulls are as realistically modeled as currently possible, the point of this is that even if the hull was improved the turret ring is still a big issue for the M1 that there isn't a fix for. In reality not doing well in M1's is a skill issue anyway.
he's explaining a design flaw the m1 has using war thunder and how they could improve it in later variants in real life. nothing to cry about here
Why is it always the europeans who whinge the loudest about americans giving feedback? That used to just cowering to your superiors and settling for the least?
They don’t need to fix the American m1 …… just face the fact that American tank are trash and always will be 😂
War thunder =/= real life
You say this because a game or do you have valid proof of it being worse than any other modern tanks
Major copium
Have you taken a look at K/D ratios in Ukraine for the M1 Abrams and T90s (just a glorified T-72 upgrade). The Abrams is outperforming the T-90 with the Abrams being one of the main reasons the 47th mechanized was able to hold off the Russian offensive around Avdivkka as long as they did.
So in short, that's a mighty fine way of saying the M1 Abrams is superior to the T-72/T-90 in every conceivable way. Go ahead and look up lost Abrams vs T-72s, T-80s and T-90s.
Thin neck/chin ey?😂
I have no complains. Since the hellfires and mavericks buff this is the most balanced top tier has ever being. I average 8-10 kills per games easy as US. I actually feels like they spall little less this update. Yes, player base still terrible, make sure to squad up with some decent players before joining and you will do great. Unless you are the problem, then go back to lower tiers or pick another nation to screw over.
I really need to get good with helicopters, especially after the hellfire buff, that must be why I see so many US players at top tier right now.
The fact that you need to play CAS to have fun in top tier USA says a lot.
@@reinyfrost3753 US CAS has always balanced out subpar tanks, and still does for every tier of US Tanks
Why can't I play how I want to? Why should I listen to a random in UA-cam?
@@reinyfrost3753 Yeah... But the US CAS planes in GRB is probably the only silver lining for top tier US, but then again, there's still the Panstir...