@@somerandometanker3455 It's widely known and agreed that the Abrams Turbine engine is quieter than other conventional power plants . It was a factor in the US militaries choice of power pack ( and the fact the other power pack never achieved its goals ) .
@@somerandometanker3455high frequency sound travels less distance than low frequency, or at least becomes less audible. The problem is that gaijin either can't or doesn't model that because games are difficult when it comes to that
I’m not aware of any t-80b’s that were given thermals, and no t-80u’s ever had thermals. Even t-80bv’s used today don’t have thermals and it took the t-80u(m) to finally get them. Gaijin just added them because they wanted more Russian tanks to have them.
@@beetlusjuicus4013 and the base M1 still doesn’t have the correct ammo to be able to pen the T-72’s front plate. If you’re saying they added thermals for “balance” it’s an inconsistent stance at best.
@@devendoffing7004the base m1 never was able to pen the front and late of the T72A and the T80b, this is what caused nato to upsize to the 120mm gun which inversely caused the soviets to change construction methods of the T72B and T80U, these changes pretty much brought the Soviet armor values up to par, so in this way Soviet tanks especially in 9.0 are unrealistic because a vehicle like a striker can pop the front plate, so while the t80b having thermals is unrealistic so is nato shell performance and Soviet armor numbers
If we don’t get spall liners we should get Crewman PPE. Modern tank crews are equipped with Kevlar vests and ballistic helmets that could improve survivability. PPE is already available in most Helicopters.
One big thing which could help the Abrams at top tier could be to add electronic warfare to the game. TUSK equipped M1s have a CREW system which jams out radio signals within a couple hundred meters. Now that there are drones in the game, that's significant because you can't fly a drone near an M1. If you're close, you also can't use cell phone or a radio unless your fills match. The difficulty putting it in would be that the range is not publicly available, but everything in game is closer than IRL anyway, and commo in game is abstract, so treating it more as a game mechanic and less as hard data should be fine. The way it could work would be that within a radius of the CREW system, enemy drones don't work, and an enemy within that radius can't call for arty, spot targets, or set squad markers, nor see spotted targets or map markers from other players. Within the EM bubble coms are down. US CREW systems leave allied frequencies open, so it would have no effect on allies. IRL the range is very short, so in game 50-100m would approximate it. IRL the system was intended to stop remote detonated IEDs, and is considered too short range for other purposes, but it does disable all radio and at the distances in War Thunder where drones fly right over you and enemies hide around the corner, it would make a difference. In the real world, the US had Warlock or Duke CREW systems on almost every deployed combat vehicle by 2007, and it's part of the TUSK and BUSK packages on Abrams and Bradley. I've never seen it on a vehicle stateside, and I'm not positive which vehicles other than the M1 might have it. I know the Brits put the same or similar systems on some of their vehicles, but not sure if it was every single vehicle like the US.
I think this would be absolutely busted, maybe if it was some kind of ability like arty or one time use feature because if it were active 24/7 you would have to make it extremely niche like an aps system on t-90a in terms of usefulness. Maybe if you needed to spot a target and jam them, similar to a scouting mechanic but instead of them being spotted on the map they would be jammed for a short period of time (even then I think it would be extremely powerful) I don't think that abrams struggles that much to begin with, especially after a reload buff it's a complete menace. The biggest buff an abrams can get is make the engine noises quieter because I can hear it coming from across the map.
@@Mr_Sakul Aren't the Abrams still doing the worst at top tier? I feel that if they don't increase the armor or give spall liners like on other tanks, having it block out drones should heavily even the playing field
@@BARelement It is, but gaijin has literally ignored bug reports that state the ariete has composite armour in the hull and the turret, which is stated on the manufacturer's website to be there. It is also missing small liners currently but that may be fixed soon.
@@BARelement this was due to an American quote but it was aimed at the majour nations of the Nato, so being worse that Leopards, Leclercs and Abrams's is not really telling things, it's one of the least armored but the Italian government when they build the WAR armor kit said that with that it's on par with other Nato tanks, at the time Germany used Leopards 2A6, some put the Armor a little less under the Leopards 2A5 in the turret, the UFP should be better too, remember the WAR kit weighs 6 tonns, the electronic sistems are really something in it, Leonardo is a master when it comes to them, the new C2 Ariete now gets upgraded electronics all from the B2 Centauro, so all cutting edge technologies, some of the best in the world, you need to observe that Italy has a really similar strategy to Japan when it comes to armored vehicles
@@Corxed spall liners come next update, guaranteed by Gaijin, also the fact that the last bug report on the Ariete armor and the fact that they wait for the implementation of the spall liner(becouse it's quite important for the balance of top tier) tells me that they may be reworking finally the armor to be more similar to the IRL counterpart, but it's just could be copium on my part
Slowly... but surely... US mains start to feel more like OG Ger mains with the "Russian bias" claims all the way in 2014 Sad to see the Abrams on its current state, and its absolutly retarded how overtuned is the T90A vs real life but its funny and ironic to see.
I've been thinking for a while that instead of another major update, Gaijin should just release a "major bugfix". Basically all that would entail is going through all known bugs and fixing them, as well as taking a look at vehicles that are missing features. I don't have them, but I've heard from a lot of players who do but the Ariete, Leclerc, and Merkava apparently are missing a lot of features that other nations tanks are getting, or just have worse stats than they should have. Gaijin in my opinion is adding too much shit without going back and fixing any of the old neglected stuff.
Throw in a major map rework because lets face it most of them are complete trash and a hitbox and damage registration tweak (Im really sick and tired of turret rings and tracks and wooden poles on some maps eating my rounds for no reason).
They should have a 2nd dev team like Stellaris has. They’re known as the Custodian team and all they do is fix bugs and bring old content up to the new standards
The spall-liner thing is just stupid. It's old tech basically nearly every main battle tank after the introduction of HESH rounds has it, even some vehicles prior to this. They are carrying on like this is cutting edge secret stuff.
@@acedogboy8421 I agree the Abrams doesn’t have spall liner but gaijins excuse to not upgrade the armor is just dumb since they already guessed on other tanks armor (Russia) and made them super hard to pen
Gajin thinks the country with the largest military budget in the world, hasn’t improved the armor of their main battle tank since 1988. As for spall liners, do you think the country with the highest military budget in the world wouldn’t instal spall liners in their MBT that already has depleted Uranium armor? Either they work and the Abrams has it, or it didn’t work or was deemed unnecessary and the Abram s doesn’t have it. Do you think a post Cold War broke Russia can afford spall liners when. The US can’t? Do you think Germany, with 1/100th the military budget of the US can afford spall liners, when the Us can’t? It’s even funnier when you factor in that the US went with the American Abrams, instead of the German Leopard 2 as their MBT because the Abrams was found to have higher survivability. You literally have to throw all logic out the window, to think the Abrams isn’t the best MBT in the world, and is woefully underpowered in games The Abrams costs around 10$ million, while the leopard 2 costs about 6$ million. The US has spends more on its military than the next 10 nations on that list combined. But you think the Us suddenly cheats out when it comes to spall liners? What an absolutely ridiculous notion. You have to throw all logic out the window to think that.
@@acedogboy8421 Is that subjectivity obvious to you? The country who spends more than the next 10 militaries on the list, would cheap out and not put spall liners on their tanks? You think the US would want to save that couple thousand dollars inbred spall liners on the Abrams?
@@acedogboy8421 why would a US tank have spall liners when the armor is Depleted Uranium? Spall liners are for steel armor, as a backup if it’s penetrated. Depleted Uranium armor on an Abrams is not meant to be penetrated by any modern tank foe of the United States.
@@fudalefu1 fucking what? For one no abrams has had a DU hull untill sep v3. 2 in that logic no t90m or t14 needs a spall liner bc they probably cant be penetrated. What fucking whack logic is that?
It don’t. In game it says it has the same turret armor values in the X-ray view but in reality the M1IP(and M1A1) turret is much weaker. The M1A2 and the up armored 11.3 M1A1s can stop top tier rounds such as DM53, 3BM60, etc while the M1IP cannot.
@@niixodus I do not think it is a fair comparison, especially considering it is based on anecdotal experience. One is at a lower battle rating than the other. The only way to really test it is versus the same shells.
@@niixodus There really isn't any other way to properly compare them other than testing it properly in-game or protection analysis. Its probably happenstance.
Pretty good video, but some small misconceptions. The current 11.0 Abrams: M1a1 and IPM1 were not "Buffed" they were nerfed from their original 10.3 br, this happened when the IPM1 was given M900 and stomped the MM for a few months before the BR changes made it 10.7. After that 10.3 america was still way to strong in gaijins eyes so they wanted to nuke the whole line up by making the M1A1 higher br(10.7). Which for a while was fine until yet again the M1A1 and IP were stomping that 10.7 bracket for months so gaijin "buffed" them again to 11.0 but this time the M1A1 was now way to high to justify its M829 shell so it was given A1 to compensate. These were not "buffs" they were moved up in BR and given a shell so it was not DOA. This happens all the time in videos like these were a youtuber would say that a tank was buffed when it was in fact not and just given better ammo or some other buff to compensate for its BR increase. The best iterations of these tanks were at the lower BRs not the state they are currently in. As for what you said about why the abrams are struggling its really not complicated. They are just terrible tanks, the other major nations have tanks like the 2a5/6/7 or bvm ect.... That all pretty much have enough armor to cover for their in your own words "less skilled on average players" which in this case means that the abrams never will save a bad player from making a mistake like the BVM or leopards do. This means that on average your teams will instantly fold because they will not be able to out "luck" the enemy team. This on top of the fact that america has been given the most amount of top tier premium and reward vehicles in the game. This means that a majority of your teams will be these complete trash reward and premium players who have 0 line up and will 100% 1 death leave most battles. This is on top of another phenomenon where russian and US teams seem to spawn a lot of IFV type vehicles that are completely worthless at top brs which only exacerbates the issues mentioned earlier. In summary this isnt an issue that can be fixed with 1-2 small changes, it would take a complete overhaul of the armor and other vehicles of the top tier american line up to make them even remotely competitive with their german and russian counterparts. Mainly the ADATS needs to not be a TD and needs to go back to the 110 SPAA spawn cost for starters. This goes for the UK as well, having a low cost SPAA is crucial for players who are bad or had a bad game to support the team and try to get back into a tank. The fact that the US's only viable spaa is 300+ sp on a second spawn and almost 500 on a third is utterly insane, and contributes to the seemingly catastrophic collapses that american teams seems to have in most top tier games. Other wise i agree with most of the changes you said, and 100% agree that changes need to be made on the basis of gameplay not realism.
Lets not forget the BVM was added way too early. That tank is so noob friendly (on top of all the volumetric changes to shells and armor leading to it eating shots. OR the lowered detonation chance on par with the Leclrec which has a blowout rack...) it was able to stomp last gen M1A1s for a very long time. Also the M1IP was indeed buffed. BR shift is not always the sign of a nerf. M1IP running with M774 forever sucked, the reload made up for the lack of damage. M833 was added too late to actually lol pen anything. M900 finally brought it to its real service standard giving it the ability to handle lesser targets but still relied on the reload to pinpoint hit weak spots. The added pen of M900 made weak spot shooting MORE consistent as well. There is no argument that the M1IP was NOT somehow buffed multiple times. The M1A1 was indeed buffed to compensate for its new BR. and shell. The M1A1 ate T64Bs and T80Bs for breakfast even with M829. Also BR shifts alleviated some of the compression 9.7-10.7 experienced. Now of course we have under tiered 2S38s running around but that's a topic for a different day. He used the term "buffed" correctly. The M1IP was always an 11.0 tank, it was simply added too early and in a "nerfed" state.
@@SteelxWolfit's an indirect nerf to the ipm1 and m1a1 (except this one is decent but pointless because the ipm1 is better than it) because now you're simply nullifying it's armor in exchange for a shell that still adds nothing for you. You still need to aim for the exact same weak spots and you're fighting better armor. It's a glass cannon that could've stayed where it was
It's very simple: Russia likes to publicize characteristics advertising a higher capability than reality (either cause they are not good enough or do not perform in real scenarios due to lack of maintenance for example) NATO countries, especially USA is more secretive and likes to advertize lower values than the actual full capabilities ( for example they might say a dart can penetrate 650mm even though it showed 700+ in certain scenarios just to guarantee the 650 in all cases and also negate enemies preparation (Russia padding armor to resist 650 but then losing cause the dart pens 700, just a fictional example) this makes Gaijin use public information, Russia being propaganda numbers and USA/NATO being standard specs (playing it down or on par with real performance). this skews the all game balance in all modes. the effects of propaganda numbers made real and effective at all times with pristine vehicles with no maintenance variable is commonly called Russian Bias.
100% you nailed it with the way the US and Russia publicize their data. A really good real world example would be the MiG-25 which was said to be this incredible plane that could do XYZ better than any US jet. The US believing that info went and created the F-15 to meet or exceed the info they had on the MiG-25. Later on a MiG-25 pilot defected taking his plane with him and the US discovered all the info they had on it was bullshit and the F-15 was leagues better and easily, imo, the best fighter of the Cold War.
@@DefaultProphet даже в Ираке вас сбивали советские самолеты. В ИРАКЕ. Это как если человек, которому переломали каждую косточку, сможет выбить зубы обидчику. Если бы систему ПВО им сделал Союз, коалиция прожила бы гораздо более тяжелую жизнь там, где им не место.
I don't know how they determined M829A3 wouldn't increase performance against common enemies like the T-80 BVM and T-90M given it was explicitly designed to counter the heavy ERA of the tanks. - If implemented in such a way that it significantly reduced the efficiency of Kontakt 5 and Relikt (an ability DM53 should also have) it would certainly help the win rate although the new Leo 2s with spall liners would likely still be better than the Abrams
@@semicooperative7188A3 was designed against the Kontakt-5, not Relikt. As US discovered that their sabot's (A1) couldn't penetrate the newer series of tanks with integrated ERA (aka Kontakt-5), they developed 2 new sabots, M829A2 and A3. M829A2 was more of a brute force solution to the problem with increasing the rod's length and raw performance (and was not reliable), while A3 also adds a steel tip that can be disintegrated from the rod easily and quickly when in touch with the ERA plates, so the ERA doesn't adjust the direction of the sabot (or damage the integrity of it). But Relikt works in a different way than the Kontakt-5, it cant be defeated by a single steel tip. DM-53 also has the "Anti-ERA" tip, similar to M829A3, thus is able to penetrate tanks with Kontakt-5 while DM-43 can't, and M829A2 sometimes is able to penetrate them while A1 clearly can't. M829A3 and DM-53 renders the Kontakt-5 useless, not Relikt
The best thing is, Gaijin says that the Torsion bars of the Abrams couldn't handle the weight. Which they added anyways. And saying that the numbers of vehicles fitted with Du armor is something to consider is bullshit, the T-80B never had thermals, except for one or maybe a few prototypes.
When you realize the base M1A1 can apply ARAT era but gaijin does not give it what it should have, same applies to the M1A1 AIM also capable to use ARAT ERA.
@@jerbyjerboa what a biased shitcompany, i mean check out that they get russian jet fighters with R-73 but no AIM-9X for americans in comparison whattaheck is that.
@@williewilson2250 i mean if you want to add weight, youd at least want to add weight that matters or makes a difference. magically gaining weight but no effectiveness is what the video pointed out
@@PerciusLive well for how useless ERA for western tanks is atm, why would anyone want to put it on the m1a1 which is already heavy enough for how weak it's armor is at 11.0?
@@JMLuu. what? Not at all, Bradleys suck, slower in every way to Russian BMP-2M and Puma, HSTV-L still doesn't have it's proper shell penetration and proxy round with IRST when similar Russian vehicle, 2S38 is at 1.3 BR lower yet still have all these with 3x fire rate and 10x the ammo reserve. And also no proper SPAA at top tier really sucks. Only thing attractive about USA is the F-16 as CAS but that is getting old now with Su-25SM3, Gripen, F-16AM additons.
I dont get how spall liners for frontal armor works to reduce spall... Composite armors are basically layered spall liners yet addinga "spall liner" magically reduces spall
I think trying to make this game as close to the real life vehicles is what's causing a lot of these problems also the devs are inconsistent with the prerequisites of x or y being added. Their rationale of not adding DU for the Abrams is fine only if they did the same for other trees like the 2s38 shouldn't be in if they were consistent. But No the abrams doesn't have a spall liner could it get one ingame sure for fairness
Yes! This is what I’m talking about. This is just a fucking game, and the game is supposed to balance and competitive. Now the win rate of U.S top tier is so bad so it should be make to balance. But gaijjn said there is no source to prove the point of Abrams armor. Is this a game or something else have to be source so they can balance things
Funnily enough. There are reports of the Abrams' turret ring being hit with the only death being the gunner, whom I believe was struck directly by the sabot in an incident of friendly fire. It's also laughable that m829a2 still cant go through spots that are proof against m829a1. As far as the game is concerned, it's the same round. But when US mains say anything, it's "Oh but M829a2 is the second best dart in the game" Yeah, yet the front of Russian vehicles are still bouncing it when they shouldn't be.
Yep. Red effect’s video in a nutshell: - they don’t have crew spall liners - the M829A3 would most certainly make a difference if modeled correctly - DU armor in the hull exists in 5 tanks at training facilities. The hull armor is totally classified
@@christopherchartier3017Also that the Sep V3 is the first production Abrams said by reliable sources to have an “upgraded hull” that if which “we don’t even know is DU, or not”. Which makes this more confusing is the fact the serial numbers which indicated Uranium (U), are now replaced with “M”.
It's true that the Abrams don't have fiber spall liners like the Leopards. Instead, it does have anti-spall layers integral to the armor. Redeffect, and Gaijin seem to not realize that an integral system can exist.
Honestly, lower the engine noise, buff the turret ring and giving it a spall liner would boost the Abrams into relevancy again. Every tank since the 80s has been fitted with a spall liner. I would love the M829A3 just for the sole purpose of defeating ERA as that’s why that round was developed for in the first place. But I’ll take what I can get right now. But M829A4 was designed to have a higher penetrating value and defeat the latest developed ERA. They can buff the turret cheeks if they see fit, won’t make too much of a difference but I have punch through it before with DM53. So DU in the turret will make it 100% impenetrable. But Gajin has also admitted that the SEPv3 did receive a armor upgrade in the turret and hull.
Gaijin increases the weight, doesn't add armor, decides they should have worse mobility with evidence to the contrary, and wonders why the tanks underperform. They do this constantly with US tanks like the M41A1, having the turret traverse speed of the M41 despite having an upgraded traverse speed because one guy misread documents and submitted a bug report that was immediately corrected, but Gaijin still changed it.
Honestly I've been playing the m3a3 Bradley in top tier more. Better thermals, hull down protection with commander optics, and tow 2bs. Plus scouting mechanics. Abrams are my second vehicle or the Apache
The real problem is realism. Gaijin is never clear on how much realism they want. I thibk they should give the Abrams M1A2s a spall liner because these tanks aren't being used the same way as in real life. The abrams is very heavy, this is why irl it has no spall liners but also has no need. The US army always expects to fire first or to have the airforce destroy ground targets. Giving spall liners would just make all of these tanks rough equals.
Guys my brother is a Abrams driver not to go in to many details about him but i asked him some small questions as he never really answers many to begin with but i asked him how heavily armored the abrams is and he said and i qoute "its not as heavily armored as a leo but believe me when i tell you it can handle almost any round out there outside of direct shot in the side from under 500m" i asked him other stuff but guys the most modern abrams is heavily armored and yes they are extremely loud as well especially inside the tank as well. The noise for gameplay should be turned down but it is not as loud as gaijin has it but its pretty damn loud and the turbine is very distinct as i have been on base and seen him in action personally and this actually when he was operating a m1a2 sep and he has now moved on to the latest variant i believe. Guys gaijin has this tank so damn wrong and yes there is DU in the tank its everywhere apparently Note : if russia sees the new abrams on the ukrainian battlefield they will consider this a nuclear attack and respond thats why we gave them the older ones, even they know the tank is littered in depeled uranium and russia has said because of this armor they will consider it an act of nuclear attack
Nuclear attack or not If it cant survive 30 minutes under artillery is just a fancy Bradley Recently a T-90 show it itself, got tap by 2 bradlies, either torret stuck or driver unconcious, needed 1 more drone for crew to flee. Then artillery decimated zone. Woth the expansion of air superiority and anti air capabilities has shown which nations prepared for powers battle and which didnt
Gaijin seeing proof regarding DU armor in Abrams tanks: There's not enough evidence, not happening. Gaijin basing the T-90M stats on a sales pitch video for potential buyers: Everything seems to be legit here!
If they were to take T-90M characteristics out of thin air, they would add -15 kph of reverse speed to it. It is alleged, there are video proof, but there are no solid documents that can prove it, so they aren't adding it. So in game T-80BVM is better as of now. Abrams with its mobility and 5 second reload is now better than any Russian MBT anyway. So what is your problem?
@@Янус_Ырт the problem is gaijin cherry picking what sources to use and when to use them. Gaijin has added vehicles and features based off far less documentation than what’s been provided on the DU armor, M829A3 round, etc. It’s an issue of inconsistency, which to all appears as bias.
The T-90M in game is actually based on the T-90A… They had an opportunity to buff its armor, and reverse speed drastically. But guess what? There is no hard concrete proof a production T-90M can do 15 kmh in reverse, no data on the improved there array, or hull array if it is upgraded at all besides the Relikt. The only improvements the T-90M has over the A is the ERA, spall liner (which won’t be guaranteed to save you lol), and gun handling… It’s fine to be upset with the state of the game, but don’t make things up. It weakens your side of the fence 9/10 in the long run, then gaijin will stop listening, and no one will take you seriously at all.
@@BARelement that's exactly my point - Gaijin could, but didn't, because no hard evidence, whilst author of original comment claims that T-90M parameters were taken out of thin air
By no means am I an EXCELLENT player. But I think the Abrams is still objectively a BAD tank in game. My reasoning? I've been playing since 2015, and I have Germany and Japan at top tier too. Germany was my first so, my stats are pretty bad on my leopards, but once I learnt how to play, they were amazing tanks. And as for Japan, the Type 10 and 90 series of MBT have the most positive K/Ds. By a fair margin, too. Whenever I play an Abrams, it feels slower, bigger, not much better protection, and STILL a slower reload than my Type 10s and 90s. Sure, it has a few more degrees of gun depression, but the hydraulic suspension on the JPN MBTs usually makes up for it, if you're playing them correctly. The Abrams NEEDS an armor buff. When a 70, almost 80 ton tank is getting one-shotted just as much, usually MORE often than a 44-ton tank, there are issues.
I honestly dont even care for realism in top tier of wt, most of these numbers on the newest tanks are made up. I would just like them to sacriface some realism for balance and gameplay reasons.
Gaijin enjoys gaslighting. They’ll sit there and tell you that there’s not enough evidence etc to add something to a vehicle. Or DU was only added into the hull of a few Abrams so we can’t add it, meanwhile they’re plenty comfortable adding many vehicles that have never seen active duty. Warthunder loves it’s prototypes and doesn’t hold those vehicles to the same standard.
I think what would help the Abrams the most is to significantly reduce the size of the barels hitbox to like the size of the 105mm guns hitbox, about 80 percent of the time at any range and speed the barel will be hit due to the giant bore evaluator, like yeah ppl aim at it but with how often it gets hit I feel like the hitbox is way larger than what it should be.
The "argument" or "debate" or "scandal" is just ridiculous. Their was a blueprint pic, Abrams with MORE PLATES IN THE TURRET AND HULL??? WOW cant make this up. Its likw Abrams got upgraded. The honest to God truth is Gaijin doesn't want NATO tanks to be strong and powerful, as they are irl better than Russian tanks. Because they are a Russian company. It's their game and their product, SURE BUT the Russian bias is 1000% crystal clear, clear like a summer sky now more than ever. The added weight of the SEPS and V2s is pure magic or air? The added weight is more armor for the Abrams. "Such a penetrator design has a big benefit against targets protected by heavy ERA, which is what the main target of the M829A3 development was." Gaijin coping because Russian top tier MBTs will be penned like NATO tanks currently are. Yeah, iirc A3 was meant to "smash through" heavy ERAs while A4 was meant to "surgically go through" heavy ERAs. The Russian bias truly is insane. Also they made the Abrams reload faster is their way of being "nice" and answer to "leave us alone about liners". ALSO this quote I love as well, "Additionally, a significant weight increase from such an armor package would lead to overloading the first pair of torsion bars, which already are under an increased load on the M1 series due to the placement of the frontal armor being positioned significantly far towards the front of the hull, as well as the large armored fuel tanks either side of the driver." So did they just admit that the location by the driver DOES have more armor? So it's not fairy dust? It's not air? It truly is as if they WANT documents for some unspoken reason. Finally, the fact that Gaijin can keep buffing Russian vehicles because they feel like it would happen or they feel like those upgrades take place is just mind-boggling
Speaking of shells, the fact that Gaijin said they believe m829a3 offers no advantage over m829a2, and would do next to nothing against Kontakt 5 just shows they just make up numbers they like. The round was specifically made to be more effective against Kontakt 5 with its steel tip, and it’s been shown to work. Also Gaijin saying it wouldn’t have any better penetration against composite is also completely made up. There’s a noticeable length increase between a3 and a2, and that alone would give it better penetration.
First time seeing your video. I'm impressed by how well your points were made. Subbed. I'm a US and Germany main. Playing Abrams feels like a straight up downgrade coming from a Leopard. A reload buff is a nice touch (which makes sense, since there is so much space within that turret). But Abrams desperately needs it's protection. When I'm playing against those tanks I always consider them an easy snack, whether I'm in Leopard or a T72. Off topic: I'm desperately waiting on IR AA buffs and for Gaijin to make helicopters lockable by those weapons. In Ukraine helicopters don't go closer than around 10km to the frontline, scared of MANPADS, in WT you can't lock a heli that is 2km away from you.
tbh gaijin could have just came up with some random amount of increased protection say like 100mm of extra protection and call it DU armor for the hull, i would be completely fine with that, because the hull armor of the abrams stops around 370mm of pen from kinetic shells, having that extra 100mm or more would be awesome of course it just being an extra 100mm of effective thickness would mean its hull armor only stops like 470mm of pen, thats the same amount of or less than most top tier shells keeping it balanced. but it would give you a greater chance to bounce shells when you angle the tank. this is just my thoughts on it and how they could have implemented the "DU Hull Armor". i do have to say that the reload buff is nice but not what i was looking for
ngl but having more pen or armor definitely isn't goanna change shit for players if they keep relying on that instead of the pure mobility. + You are pretty much faster in every way + Your turret armor quite often bounces anything but the 292's round (especially when slightly angling it when noticing the enemy is targeting Your gun barrel or Breech) + Your engine becomes near silent beyond 100m (Which means You're the Sneakiest MBT of the Modern tanks) - Everybody knows where to shoot it. - You absolutely can't rely on Your teammates. - Sniping at long range often results in some bastard shooting through the turret ring regardless of You being hull down or not. Let Me know if I missed some points, I'd like to know more
Some rounds shouldn’t pen abrams in some areas that it does. Like the lower front plate, due to angle, most rounds would shatter. GHPC models this much better. Also they really need to model spalling more correctly
I will just spam CAS with the F16C more if they don’t fix the Abrams. If the fucking A3 isn’t added the pave way on top of peoples heads will do the trick.
For spall liners and DU inserts for the SEP V2 there isn’t really much to say it did have them. When we get the SEP V3, it is extremely likely to get the DU hull upgrade. Though I am not sure what difference it will make in practice.
If the SEP V3's DU package is modeled correctly, the lower plate should be invulnerable to 3BM60 and maybe even DM53, though that could be a stretch. Abrams would have meaningful armor, and the turret ring and breach would still be the primary weak points.
I always hate the implementation of modern technologies very iffie. Would prefer it not being implemented at all, just stick to what we know and maybe make 1 vehcalce for each faction that is evaluated for balance (each having an aspect to focus) and let player choose in what to focus. And concidering Merican will cry to have their Abram, just have a diferent mode for incomplete or live it to models. Now my reasons for it: 1- like expose, incloplete information AND information given by official who most likly exagerate them, and where test at 100% maintenance and only top marks stages. 2- Economic factors are ignore, this can be seen even today, russia had to fill up their tank with cheap termos because it coudnt aford more, they still work and how older tanks have basicly become arrillery. So aspect like material needed to produce arent accounted for, thus favouring heavily any tank who has "top of the line" as any cost of profuction, repair, training arent really ajusted and varied during states of the ecnomoy, i already doubted the ammo and fuel cost. 3- the issue with western vehacles, speaken out on the video, now why is that so? And the reason is clear: -Over use of funds -Corruption -Useless tech This is a byproduct of modern defens department being in bed with the weapones producer, time and time again (even before but more so eviently now) producers will expend exorbitants amount of money in little upgrades, useless changes and even just drcalre a whole research trash and fiscar it, sometimes even getting a reinvestment for the loss.
You've got some factual mistakes, though, they don't make that much sense. M1A1 HC doesn't has M829A2, only A1. (there was something else, but I forgot) M1A1 AIM might not be the best Abrams, but definitely not the worst. There isn't that much difference between M829A1 and KE-W, but Gen 2 thermals for AIM definitely is a buff. Gen 1 thermals are so fucking blurry it makes actual aiming hard enough and goes well for general target recognition, while Gen 2 thermals make aiming for weakspots at range comfortable. On top of that I'd tell that there two 'families' of Abrams tanks: first one is earlier lighter ones (M1, IPM1, M1A1, KVT) and later heavies (M1A1 HC and others). And once you've got to the point where Abrams got fat enough and got over 60 tons any more weight doesn't feels at all. I've got more than 3000 battles in Abrams tanks and I can tell you that these heavy M1s don't really vary one to another in terms of mobility. But the advantages of going on and on are clear: with M1A2 you get the CITV and M829A2, with SEP V1 you getting Gen 2 thermals. And only then with SEP V2 all you get is some bad-ass looking tank but on practice nothing else but extra weight.
God I can't wait for the storm when and if they add the V3 the only way people won't whine is if it gets trophy as an add on because there is very little difference between the V2 and V3 it's mostly internal there is an armor "upgrade" but the change is unknown
I hate gaijin like nothing else. They dont care about authenticity for America and will nerf their tanks into oblivion but are more than happy to buff other nations MBTs for "balance"
people worrying about the abrams when all the leclere's are incredibly horrible and tragic to play, it's a travesty when they have nothing going for it
Eow, all are good suggestions to help the M1 Family, but if think the damn Communist Snail will fix it, you're dreaming....Anything than might oppose Russian Fun is nerfed and ignored
Abrams players are just like tiger players,saw a documentary or a movie about it, thought it's invincible,rushed the enemy and got spanked,then proceeding to blame it on russian bias
They won't give it M829A3 (entered service in the mid-2000's), DU armor, or the integral spall liner. They're fine speculating on modern tanks like the Challenger 3, Type-10, T-90M, VT-4, but they won't speculate when it comes to classified information.
bro, what do you mean russian engines are whisper quite, I hear a T90 from 5 blocks away, I aim where he is going to go, at the position he is going to be in 1 minute from how loud this mf is, vacuum needs to be turned of
what actually sucks in my opinion is the germans and similar, not as being too bad but as being too good, germans are that fkin surviveble and the undervariants are also crazy like the Type 90+ yes sure other technology, but same crew compartment, same survivability, 4s reload, yes for slightly worse shell which doesn't make a diff to me anyway
Читая комментарии, я начинаю понимать почему кому-то нравится нытьё Джонов. Они столько срут на другие страны, что другого отношения невозможно ожидать.
Russian bias, research the apfsds changes to sloped armour then when we used hesh against t72s that was nerfed against the exact angle the t72 upper front plate is, then look at the pantsir compared to any other nation and how there is a fully premium 10.0 lineup that is the best in the game
What are hellfire missiles like for the apaches now? Just got back into wt after a year and these missile was dogshit before. Couldnt take out other helis with them, bushes/tress use to ruin there aim. They still.just as bad?
cant a agree more i researched down the 105 abrams and gor one of the 120 abrams and ones i got that m1a1 i stopped play the americans and played my swedish strv122 much more fun too play sweden then usa imo at to tier
gaijin are russian biased, and taking into consideration that theyre an agency from Hungary it just seals the deal, its so obvious. i dont mean to make this political, but for what other reason other than petty political reasons would they make the modern russian tech so vastly superior to modern u.s tech? in reality the exact opposite is clearly the case. the m1 abrams is touted as being the best modern heavy main battle tank, the u.s military has never lost an abrams in battle ever, only disabled. some Saudi Abrams were destroyed in Yemen, but they m1a2s' and they didnt have DU armor. we know that t90s dont perform as well as abrams by a longshot as seen in Syria and Ukraine. In Ukraine a t90m was famously disabled by a couple of god damn old m2 bradleys with their chain guns for god's sake, not even their TOW missiles.... get real, gaijin, honestly.
Abrams is so fcking op I have no idea what yall talking about.... I played it, I played against it .... its op. not even close to be bad. US techtree is op. Aritie and Type 90 are bad
Why even make a video on Russian bias? It is basically confirmed by Gaijin them selves. Infact you said so many examples of it yourself just in this video.
Best course of action that is substantiated by evidence is to give abrams tanks m829a3, giving America a better shell will not change the current game balance at all because while m829a3 is capable of penetrating through kontakt 5, only 1 tank in the game uses kontakt 5 the t72B at 10.0, so adding a new shell would not change the current lost rate of America. What would change is players because Abrams is incredibly easy to kill if you know what you are doing. Shooting the turret ring and the cannon breach is where I mostly shoot. Any increases in armor in those areas would make abrams tanks more survivable. Spaller liners would also help, but looking at the interior of abrams tanks, there are no spall liners of any kind, so tough luck america players. Adding M829A4 would make abrams tanks better, but by adding that, we would likely see buffs to other nations out of fairness. These buffs would likely be better apfsds rounds, but it would ultimately hurt gameplay because it would just result in whoever gets the first shot off wins which is already the case at top tier instead it is now more brain dead as players just shoot the upper front plate majority of the time and going straight through it. What would ultimately help America is aircraft. HARM missiles would make spaa completely useless at top tier. What would also help is longer range maps as the abrams currently has a better reload rate and a hull down abrams can tank multiple rounds as seen in those new really long range maps that are very unpopular. I have shot 11 dm53 rounds into an abrams at 5km's and the shell either hit the dirt or the rock that he was hiding behind or it would just hit the upper front plate and bounce off because at that range most shell's effectiveness would be in the double digits or less than 200mm's of effectiveness.
@@SteelxWolf Forgot about those, I just searched up how many tanks have kontakt 5 in war thunder and it only gave t72b, turns out there are like 5 other tanks that have kontakt 5.
Because the Abrams never had spall liner for the crew compartment, and on top of that there were only ever a small handful of Abrams that had the DU armor & none of them were in active service, not to mention the fact that the armor change between the SEP & the V2 is essentially nonexistent.
when has not being in the active service stopped gaijin adding anything? Just examples from the top of the head: USA - basically all T series tanks, as they were tests, USSR - basically all objects, UK - prototype challenger 3. That is a very stupid argument on the part of gaijin, honestly as they add prototype vehicles all the time, why not for abrams? Just call it Abrams DU(H)P or something.
All of what you’re saying has been disproven already in the forums in the Abrams hull armor thread; the Abrams has an inlayed/integrated spall liner and it has had DU in the hull since at least the M1A1 SA.
@thestrain. "edgy kid" 💀 nice one whats edgy about that smart one. I DARE YOU find me a realiable source of that. Typical US main malding lmao. "We all know" nice one kiddo
dont get why people complain that much about the abrams. i am grinding the last toptier tank now what is the SEP V2. i started with Russia then Germany ,Sweden , Britain , Chinese and now the SEP V2. other than the constant whining in the chat about the Abrams tank there is really not much life left in the USA players. I got the M1A2, AIM, Click Bait and the SEP in my lineup along with the HSTV-L i barely get to use 2 tanks before the battle is over because the whiners have left after rushing into their death after 2 minutes. i get along with the Abrams just fine. it has decent mobility and a strong turret. it can tank a hit or two as long as you dont expose your hull too much. People speak about the Abrams as if its some kind of supertank while it is mediocre at best in real life. it has never really been in a tank to tank combat. and i refuse to count the Iraq war a tankbattle. that was old poorly maintained T72 with Dummyrounds. it swallows fuel like a stage 3 alcoholic which diminish its range significant its heavy and bulky. the only real good thing about the Abrams is the Maingun. i do not know at what standart the M1 is today. but taking the SEP V2 you cant really find any sources about depleted uranium beeing added. i followed up on gaijins post about their sources and i have to give them that point this time. the tank would be way too heavy for extra armor in the front. the whole suspention system would need a rework. and the added weight would diminish the effectiv range of the tank even further. i wish people would just play the game instead of complaining about a thing no one really knows even excists in the V2 version. maybe in the future we will see some added electronic warfare systems added to the abrams giving it an edge over its opponents. but until then.. just play the damn game.
Gaijin hates Challengers, not abrams. Gaijin also loves Leopards, not T-80/90s. Edit: imagine being an Abrams main and crying that Gaijin "hates NATO tanks", then gaijin listens and gives spall liners to the strongest NATO mbts in the game, ZE LEOPARDS. 😅
if im not wrong, non of the abrams had any spalliners, if you look in side of an abrams you see simple steel. Source: ua-cam.com/video/pMxflfgEzY0/v-deo.html
Wouldn't take his "trust me bro" claim for spall liner. Many people say that It doesnt have spall liner but has an alternative thats just as good or smth
The concept of hardback spall liners have literally existed since the age of dreadnoughts by replacing the rearmost layer with a wooden hull to limit the amount of shrapnel coming into the compartment and stop shrapnel from the outer metal hulls. The abrams uses a more advanced concept of this because the US actually looked into material sciences alongside Britain
Considering the Americans were the first to use spall liners. Documentation or not… its a stretch to suggest they dont use it at all on their latest gen MBT. The M60s had it. Why wouldn’t the Abrams? Sure it may not be as much or in as many places but I call BS on having none whatsoever. A YT video mentioning the T90Ms spall liner location got passed and corrected on the Dev and nobody really noticed
Yes we can tho we have plenty of sources. There's no proof that the hull has DU there's only proof that the turret has DU The spall liner is only in the turret behind a metal plate so idk how effective it is also the du was only introduced later on so only the later sep2 will get it So it will basically be an HC And than bro brings up the British the most falsely buffed tree in the game Where I personally do agree with you they could make shit up and buff it same way they did with the chally since irl it has gen1 thermals, no spall liner, and a slower reload compared to its nato cousins since 2 piece ammo, and possibly the CR2 and CR1 share the same hull armor. But personally fuck the DU its shit either way that wont improve much give me the Tandem Ceramic armor that they use instead that shit will be amazing (still no proof that its in the hull.)
Initially army was only allowed to use DU for their tanks turret front and 5 test hulls to test effect of radioactivity on the crew. But they made an amendment to DU license they had back in 24th august 2006 which states army is allowed to use DU meshes in both turret front and hull front outright. Meaning both SEP and SEPV2 should have it as they were produced after 2006. Gaijin simply ignores this document. Not to mention there are simply too much sources for DU usage in abrams hull. Steven zaloga says 750mm of KE protection which means DU as well as Russian primary sources themselves predict somewhere around 700mm of KE protection on hull front.
DU if implemented would make abrams hull front invulnerable to any sabot in the game. Because gaijin already has a model and estimate for DU NERA we see on the turret. Hull front would be similar to it.
@@BARelement thats the part where I say the spall liner doesn't make sense on how it works its behind a metal plate in the turret that's why you cant see it.
@@Phapchamp And yet all the sources we have talking about the DU armor in the turret somehow forget about DU in hull (YES the sources about sepV2). You know US military is just a bunch of random guys can't blame them for forgetting to mention something as important as putting radioactive material into the hull of the tank.
US military - Enemy call it whispering death!
Gaijin- So its louder than a F15 at full after burner !
you really can't expect a gas turbine engine to be quiet, but perhaps gaijing did go over with how loaod they are rn in game
@@somerandometanker3455 It's widely known and agreed that the Abrams Turbine engine is quieter than other conventional power plants . It was a factor in the US militaries choice of power pack ( and the fact the other power pack never achieved its goals ) .
@@somerandometanker3455high frequency sound travels less distance than low frequency, or at least becomes less audible. The problem is that gaijin either can't or doesn't model that because games are difficult when it comes to that
My first experience with the M1 was when one snuck up on me at Graff during Reforger 82.
The reason it's so loud in the game is because the sounds IRL is actually incredibly loud, it just travels less distance and is more directional.
It’s the same with the t80b. Some were tested with thermals and that was already enough for gaijin to add it.
I’m not aware of any t-80b’s that were given thermals, and no t-80u’s ever had thermals. Even t-80bv’s used today don’t have thermals and it took the t-80u(m) to finally get them. Gaijin just added them because they wanted more Russian tanks to have them.
Well the t80 also has shittier armor than the 9.3 t72
@@beetlusjuicus4013 and the base M1 still doesn’t have the correct ammo to be able to pen the T-72’s front plate. If you’re saying they added thermals for “balance” it’s an inconsistent stance at best.
@@devendoffing7004the base m1 never was able to pen the front and late of the T72A and the T80b, this is what caused nato to upsize to the 120mm gun which inversely caused the soviets to change construction methods of the T72B and T80U, these changes pretty much brought the Soviet armor values up to par, so in this way Soviet tanks especially in 9.0 are unrealistic because a vehicle like a striker can pop the front plate, so while the t80b having thermals is unrealistic so is nato shell performance and Soviet armor numbers
@@beetlusjuicus4013 the M60's 105 firing m833 will go through the front plate of an T72M/M1 this is wel known
If we don’t get spall liners we should get Crewman PPE. Modern tank crews are equipped with Kevlar vests and ballistic helmets that could improve survivability. PPE is already available in most Helicopters.
I find it laughable that the weight increases constantly, for no reason. Even though its obviously armor
Heavy air
You guys are blind apparently
ok then whats the reason for the added weight?@@williewilson2250
@@williewilson2250 ?
@@Fazbear-qy8mo what
One big thing which could help the Abrams at top tier could be to add electronic warfare to the game. TUSK equipped M1s have a CREW system which jams out radio signals within a couple hundred meters. Now that there are drones in the game, that's significant because you can't fly a drone near an M1. If you're close, you also can't use cell phone or a radio unless your fills match.
The difficulty putting it in would be that the range is not publicly available, but everything in game is closer than IRL anyway, and commo in game is abstract, so treating it more as a game mechanic and less as hard data should be fine.
The way it could work would be that within a radius of the CREW system, enemy drones don't work, and an enemy within that radius can't call for arty, spot targets, or set squad markers, nor see spotted targets or map markers from other players. Within the EM bubble coms are down. US CREW systems leave allied frequencies open, so it would have no effect on allies. IRL the range is very short, so in game 50-100m would approximate it.
IRL the system was intended to stop remote detonated IEDs, and is considered too short range for other purposes, but it does disable all radio and at the distances in War Thunder where drones fly right over you and enemies hide around the corner, it would make a difference.
In the real world, the US had Warlock or Duke CREW systems on almost every deployed combat vehicle by 2007, and it's part of the TUSK and BUSK packages on Abrams and Bradley. I've never seen it on a vehicle stateside, and I'm not positive which vehicles other than the M1 might have it. I know the Brits put the same or similar systems on some of their vehicles, but not sure if it was every single vehicle like the US.
This would be effective against commercial drones. Most FPVs you see in Ukraine use modified bandwidths so EW systems dont work consistently.
I think this would be absolutely busted, maybe if it was some kind of ability like arty or one time use feature because if it were active 24/7 you would have to make it extremely niche like an aps system on t-90a in terms of usefulness. Maybe if you needed to spot a target and jam them, similar to a scouting mechanic but instead of them being spotted on the map they would be jammed for a short period of time (even then I think it would be extremely powerful)
I don't think that abrams struggles that much to begin with, especially after a reload buff it's a complete menace. The biggest buff an abrams can get is make the engine noises quieter because I can hear it coming from across the map.
ECM would be way too complicated for a 40gb Russian game.
if you wanna talk about adding that, then why dont they make the thermal camo on the chally 2 tes/oes actually work?
@@Mr_Sakul Aren't the Abrams still doing the worst at top tier? I feel that if they don't increase the armor or give spall liners like on other tanks, having it block out drones should heavily even the playing field
Welcome to the Ariete treatment Abrams
As an italy main I welcome the Americans to our state of neglect.
Isn’t the Ariete actually one of the worst NATO MBTs IRL? Only really things like the Arjun beat it at being “worse”.
@@BARelement It is, but gaijin has literally ignored bug reports that state the ariete has composite armour in the hull and the turret, which is stated on the manufacturer's website to be there. It is also missing small liners currently but that may be fixed soon.
@@BARelement this was due to an American quote but it was aimed at the majour nations of the Nato, so being worse that Leopards, Leclercs and Abrams's is not really telling things, it's one of the least armored but the Italian government when they build the WAR armor kit said that with that it's on par with other Nato tanks, at the time Germany used Leopards 2A6, some put the Armor a little less under the Leopards 2A5 in the turret, the UFP should be better too, remember the WAR kit weighs 6 tonns, the electronic sistems are really something in it, Leonardo is a master when it comes to them, the new C2 Ariete now gets upgraded electronics all from the B2 Centauro, so all cutting edge technologies, some of the best in the world, you need to observe that Italy has a really similar strategy to Japan when it comes to armored vehicles
@@Corxed spall liners come next update, guaranteed by Gaijin, also the fact that the last bug report on the Ariete armor and the fact that they wait for the implementation of the spall liner(becouse it's quite important for the balance of top tier) tells me that they may be reworking finally the armor to be more similar to the IRL counterpart, but it's just could be copium on my part
Slowly... but surely... US mains start to feel more like OG Ger mains with the "Russian bias" claims all the way in 2014
Sad to see the Abrams on its current state, and its absolutly retarded how overtuned is the T90A vs real life but its funny and ironic to see.
Every Russian tank is obviously overtuned
@@Optimusprime56241yeah but leopards still stomp them like bugs
@@SeductiveWalrus lmao no, not in this game they don’t
@@Optimusprime56241 umm actually yeah they do, both sweden and germany have better tanks than russia right now
@@SeductiveWalrus they’re not better than t80bvm/t90m so no
I've been thinking for a while that instead of another major update, Gaijin should just release a "major bugfix". Basically all that would entail is going through all known bugs and fixing them, as well as taking a look at vehicles that are missing features. I don't have them, but I've heard from a lot of players who do but the Ariete, Leclerc, and Merkava apparently are missing a lot of features that other nations tanks are getting, or just have worse stats than they should have. Gaijin in my opinion is adding too much shit without going back and fixing any of the old neglected stuff.
Throw in a major map rework because lets face it most of them are complete trash and a hitbox and damage registration tweak (Im really sick and tired of turret rings and tracks and wooden poles on some maps eating my rounds for no reason).
They should have a 2nd dev team like Stellaris has. They’re known as the Custodian team and all they do is fix bugs and bring old content up to the new standards
The spall-liner thing is just stupid. It's old tech basically nearly every main battle tank after the introduction of HESH rounds has it, even some vehicles prior to this. They are carrying on like this is cutting edge secret stuff.
They have fear of making the US tech three realistic both in land and air
its funny because as far as i know the challenger 2 oes gets it but no abrams gets it
The abrams never had a spall liner…
@@jerbyjerboabc abrams dont have spall liners
@@acedogboy8421 I agree the Abrams doesn’t have spall liner but gaijins excuse to not upgrade the armor is just dumb since they already guessed on other tanks armor (Russia) and made them super hard to pen
Gajin thinks the country with the largest military budget in the world, hasn’t improved the armor of their main battle tank since 1988.
As for spall liners, do you think the country with the highest military budget in the world wouldn’t instal spall liners in their MBT that already has depleted Uranium armor? Either they work and the Abrams has it, or it didn’t work or was deemed unnecessary and the Abram s doesn’t have it. Do you think a post Cold War broke Russia can afford spall liners when. The US can’t? Do you think Germany, with 1/100th the military budget of the US can afford spall liners, when the Us can’t? It’s even funnier when you factor in that the US went with the American Abrams, instead of the German Leopard 2 as their MBT because the Abrams was found to have higher survivability.
You literally have to throw all logic out the window, to think the Abrams isn’t the best MBT in the world, and is woefully underpowered in games
The Abrams costs around 10$ million, while the leopard 2 costs about 6$ million. The US has spends more on its military than the next 10 nations on that list combined. But you think the Us suddenly cheats out when it comes to spall liners? What an absolutely ridiculous notion. You have to throw all logic out the window to think that.
gaijin uses propaganda for russian specs and normal info for us specs
They never out spall liners in their tanks sooo
@@acedogboy8421
Is that subjectivity obvious to you?
The country who spends more than the next 10 militaries on the list, would cheap out and not put spall liners on their tanks?
You think the US would want to save that couple thousand dollars inbred spall liners on the Abrams?
@@acedogboy8421 why would a US tank have spall liners when the armor is Depleted Uranium?
Spall liners are for steel armor, as a backup if it’s penetrated.
Depleted Uranium armor on an Abrams is not meant to be penetrated by any modern tank foe of the United States.
@@fudalefu1 fucking what? For one no abrams has had a DU hull untill sep v3. 2 in that logic no t90m or t14 needs a spall liner bc they probably cant be penetrated. What fucking whack logic is that?
M1IP bounces a lot more shells than the SEP V2 at 12.0 with the same armor stats. Something fishy going on
It don’t. In game it says it has the same turret armor values in the X-ray view but in reality the M1IP(and M1A1) turret is much weaker.
The M1A2 and the up armored 11.3 M1A1s can stop top tier rounds such as DM53, 3BM60, etc while the M1IP cannot.
@Boris_The_Turtle Yes it does. Try it in game. Thats the point of my comment. Something is clearly bugged if in game it bounces more than the A2
@@niixodus I do not think it is a fair comparison, especially considering it is based on anecdotal experience. One is at a lower battle rating than the other. The only way to really test it is versus the same shells.
@@Boris_The_Turtle I was saying it bounces more in at 12.0 than the sep
@@niixodus There really isn't any other way to properly compare them other than testing it properly in-game or protection analysis. Its probably happenstance.
Pretty good video, but some small misconceptions.
The current 11.0 Abrams: M1a1 and IPM1 were not "Buffed" they were nerfed from their original 10.3 br, this happened when the IPM1 was given M900 and stomped the MM for a few months before the BR changes made it 10.7. After that 10.3 america was still way to strong in gaijins eyes so they wanted to nuke the whole line up by making the M1A1 higher br(10.7). Which for a while was fine until yet again the M1A1 and IP were stomping that 10.7 bracket for months so gaijin "buffed" them again to 11.0 but this time the M1A1 was now way to high to justify its M829 shell so it was given A1 to compensate. These were not "buffs" they were moved up in BR and given a shell so it was not DOA. This happens all the time in videos like these were a youtuber would say that a tank was buffed when it was in fact not and just given better ammo or some other buff to compensate for its BR increase. The best iterations of these tanks were at the lower BRs not the state they are currently in.
As for what you said about why the abrams are struggling its really not complicated. They are just terrible tanks, the other major nations have tanks like the 2a5/6/7 or bvm ect.... That all pretty much have enough armor to cover for their in your own words "less skilled on average players" which in this case means that the abrams never will save a bad player from making a mistake like the BVM or leopards do. This means that on average your teams will instantly fold because they will not be able to out "luck" the enemy team. This on top of the fact that america has been given the most amount of top tier premium and reward vehicles in the game. This means that a majority of your teams will be these complete trash reward and premium players who have 0 line up and will 100% 1 death leave most battles. This is on top of another phenomenon where russian and US teams seem to spawn a lot of IFV type vehicles that are completely worthless at top brs which only exacerbates the issues mentioned earlier.
In summary this isnt an issue that can be fixed with 1-2 small changes, it would take a complete overhaul of the armor and other vehicles of the top tier american line up to make them even remotely competitive with their german and russian counterparts. Mainly the ADATS needs to not be a TD and needs to go back to the 110 SPAA spawn cost for starters. This goes for the UK as well, having a low cost SPAA is crucial for players who are bad or had a bad game to support the team and try to get back into a tank. The fact that the US's only viable spaa is 300+ sp on a second spawn and almost 500 on a third is utterly insane, and contributes to the seemingly catastrophic collapses that american teams seems to have in most top tier games. Other wise i agree with most of the changes you said, and 100% agree that changes need to be made on the basis of gameplay not realism.
Bro, have you ever played USA? lolz
TALK ABOUT MISCONCEPTIONS!
yes thousands of games over the past 5 years.@@rogeryoung9934
Lets not forget the BVM was added way too early. That tank is so noob friendly (on top of all the volumetric changes to shells and armor leading to it eating shots. OR the lowered detonation chance on par with the Leclrec which has a blowout rack...) it was able to stomp last gen M1A1s for a very long time.
Also the M1IP was indeed buffed. BR shift is not always the sign of a nerf. M1IP running with M774 forever sucked, the reload made up for the lack of damage. M833 was added too late to actually lol pen anything. M900 finally brought it to its real service standard giving it the ability to handle lesser targets but still relied on the reload to pinpoint hit weak spots. The added pen of M900 made weak spot shooting MORE consistent as well. There is no argument that the M1IP was NOT somehow buffed multiple times. The M1A1 was indeed buffed to compensate for its new BR. and shell. The M1A1 ate T64Bs and T80Bs for breakfast even with M829. Also BR shifts alleviated some of the compression 9.7-10.7 experienced. Now of course we have under tiered 2S38s running around but that's a topic for a different day.
He used the term "buffed" correctly. The M1IP was always an 11.0 tank, it was simply added too early and in a "nerfed" state.
They didn't got nerfed..It's called BR Decompression. M1A1 was too powerful for 10.3
@@SteelxWolfit's an indirect nerf to the ipm1 and m1a1 (except this one is decent but pointless because the ipm1 is better than it) because now you're simply nullifying it's armor in exchange for a shell that still adds nothing for you. You still need to aim for the exact same weak spots and you're fighting better armor. It's a glass cannon that could've stayed where it was
This tank shouldn't be called M1A2 . It be renamed to M1A2 WT, it's what gajin believed it to be, a blatant insult to a legendary vehicle.
It's very simple: Russia likes to publicize characteristics advertising a higher capability than reality (either cause they are not good enough or do not perform in real scenarios due to lack of maintenance for example) NATO countries, especially USA is more secretive and likes to advertize lower values than the actual full capabilities ( for example they might say a dart can penetrate 650mm even though it showed 700+ in certain scenarios just to guarantee the 650 in all cases and also negate enemies preparation (Russia padding armor to resist 650 but then losing cause the dart pens 700, just a fictional example) this makes Gaijin use public information, Russia being propaganda numbers and USA/NATO being standard specs (playing it down or on par with real performance). this skews the all game balance in all modes. the effects of propaganda numbers made real and effective at all times with pristine vehicles with no maintenance variable is commonly called Russian Bias.
100% you nailed it with the way the US and Russia publicize their data.
A really good real world example would be the MiG-25 which was said to be this incredible plane that could do XYZ better than any US jet. The US believing that info went and created the F-15 to meet or exceed the info they had on the MiG-25.
Later on a MiG-25 pilot defected taking his plane with him and the US discovered all the info they had on it was bullshit and the F-15 was leagues better and easily, imo, the best fighter of the Cold War.
Pretty much, yeah.
@@DefaultProphet даже в Ираке вас сбивали советские самолеты. В ИРАКЕ.
Это как если человек, которому переломали каждую косточку, сможет выбить зубы обидчику. Если бы систему ПВО им сделал Союз, коалиция прожила бы гораздо более тяжелую жизнь там, где им не место.
@@HoBoeBpeM9l You forgot to Google translate Vatnik
One of the things you didn't touch on was Gaijin's stance on M829A3. What's your opinion on their assessment?
I don't know how they determined M829A3 wouldn't increase performance against common enemies like the T-80 BVM and T-90M given it was explicitly designed to counter the heavy ERA of the tanks.
-
If implemented in such a way that it significantly reduced the efficiency of Kontakt 5 and Relikt (an ability DM53 should also have) it would certainly help the win rate although the new Leo 2s with spall liners would likely still be better than the Abrams
@semicooperative7188 because gaijin believes russian ERA is infallible
@@OkamiiSenpai even kontakt 1
@@semicooperative7188even the designers of K1 and Relict admitted it works against their ERA…
@@semicooperative7188A3 was designed against the Kontakt-5, not Relikt.
As US discovered that their sabot's (A1) couldn't penetrate the newer series of tanks with integrated ERA (aka Kontakt-5), they developed 2 new sabots, M829A2 and A3. M829A2 was more of a brute force solution to the problem with increasing the rod's length and raw performance (and was not reliable), while A3 also adds a steel tip that can be disintegrated from the rod easily and quickly when in touch with the ERA plates, so the ERA doesn't adjust the direction of the sabot (or damage the integrity of it).
But Relikt works in a different way than the Kontakt-5, it cant be defeated by a single steel tip.
DM-53 also has the "Anti-ERA" tip, similar to M829A3, thus is able to penetrate tanks with Kontakt-5 while DM-43 can't, and M829A2 sometimes is able to penetrate them while A1 clearly can't.
M829A3 and DM-53 renders the Kontakt-5 useless, not Relikt
The best thing is, Gaijin says that the Torsion bars of the Abrams couldn't handle the weight. Which they added anyways. And saying that the numbers of vehicles fitted with Du armor is something to consider is bullshit, the T-80B never had thermals, except for one or maybe a few prototypes.
When you realize the base M1A1 can apply ARAT era but gaijin does not give it what it should have, same applies to the M1A1 AIM also capable to use ARAT ERA.
almost all abrams models can equip the TUSK kit but gaijin does not care (despite most soviet tanks getting era)
@@jerbyjerboa what a biased shitcompany, i mean check out that they get russian jet fighters with R-73 but no AIM-9X for americans in comparison whattaheck is that.
So you guys complain about magical weight and now you want to exacerbate the problem lmao
@@williewilson2250 i mean if you want to add weight, youd at least want to add weight that matters or makes a difference. magically gaining weight but no effectiveness is what the video pointed out
@@PerciusLive well for how useless ERA for western tanks is atm, why would anyone want to put it on the m1a1 which is already heavy enough for how weak it's armor is at 11.0?
Gajin's logic only applies to Russia that's why no new round or DU armor for the new sep what a joke
I’m a couple days away from unlocking the m1 and I’m not nearly as excited as I thought I’d be when I started the tech tree
American Light Tank and IFV is better, those vehicle get your job done very well.
@@JMLuu. what? Not at all, Bradleys suck, slower in every way to Russian BMP-2M and Puma, HSTV-L still doesn't have it's proper shell penetration and proxy round with IRST when similar Russian vehicle, 2S38 is at 1.3 BR lower yet still have all these with 3x fire rate and 10x the ammo reserve. And also no proper SPAA at top tier really sucks.
Only thing attractive about USA is the F-16 as CAS but that is getting old now with Su-25SM3, Gripen, F-16AM additons.
10.3 lineup is actually not bad, get the M1 Abrams and LAV-AD and you will have fun, I don't recommend playing USA past that BR.
@@INeatFreak lmao I quit the game shortly after I hit like 11.3 I couldn’t take it anymore haven’t played in like 5 months
@@jalenwilliams8622 you did yourself a favor, don't comeback to this game, everything is still shit.
I dont get how spall liners for frontal armor works to reduce spall... Composite armors are basically layered spall liners yet addinga "spall liner" magically reduces spall
War Thunder is an arcade game masquerading as a sim to empty fan boy pockets. When I want to play a tank sim, I play "Steel Beasts".
Finally gets first Abrams looks at top tier Russian tank's becoming even stronger
Gajin: Russian bias doesn’t exist
Obj 279: let me introduce myself
2S38, Ka-50, T-80BVM, T-90, Strela, pantsir
@@RhodesianSuperiority fr haha
I think trying to make this game as close to the real life vehicles is what's causing a lot of these problems also the devs are inconsistent with the prerequisites of x or y being added. Their rationale of not adding DU for the Abrams is fine only if they did the same for other trees like the 2s38 shouldn't be in if they were consistent. But No the abrams doesn't have a spall liner could it get one ingame sure for fairness
Yes! This is what I’m talking about. This is just a fucking game, and the game is supposed to balance and competitive. Now the win rate of U.S top tier is so bad so it should be make to balance. But gaijjn said there is no source to prove the point of Abrams armor. Is this a game or something else have to be source so they can balance things
Funnily enough. There are reports of the Abrams' turret ring being hit with the only death being the gunner, whom I believe was struck directly by the sabot in an incident of friendly fire. It's also laughable that m829a2 still cant go through spots that are proof against m829a1. As far as the game is concerned, it's the same round. But when US mains say anything, it's "Oh but M829a2 is the second best dart in the game"
Yeah, yet the front of Russian vehicles are still bouncing it when they shouldn't be.
Redeffect did cover many of the claims made by people over the DU and also the claim about M829A3 from Gaijin and he wasn't wrong.
Yep. Red effect’s video in a nutshell:
- they don’t have crew spall liners
- the M829A3 would most certainly make a difference if modeled correctly
- DU armor in the hull exists in 5 tanks at training facilities. The hull armor is totally classified
@@christopherchartier3017Also that the Sep V3 is the first production Abrams said by reliable sources to have an “upgraded hull” that if which “we don’t even know is DU, or not”. Which makes this more confusing is the fact the serial numbers which indicated Uranium (U), are now replaced with “M”.
It's true that the Abrams don't have fiber spall liners like the Leopards. Instead, it does have anti-spall layers integral to the armor. Redeffect, and Gaijin seem to not realize that an integral system can exist.
@@TheIke444 I think he would have awared of such information but bc he mostly focused on the main problem of the video
@@TheIke444 if you integrate it into the armor it wouldn’t be very good at being a spall liner lol
Honestly, lower the engine noise, buff the turret ring and giving it a spall liner would boost the Abrams into relevancy again. Every tank since the 80s has been fitted with a spall liner. I would love the M829A3 just for the sole purpose of defeating ERA as that’s why that round was developed for in the first place. But I’ll take what I can get right now. But M829A4 was designed to have a higher penetrating value and defeat the latest developed ERA. They can buff the turret cheeks if they see fit, won’t make too much of a difference but I have punch through it before with DM53. So DU in the turret will make it 100% impenetrable. But Gajin has also admitted that the SEPv3 did receive a armor upgrade in the turret and hull.
Gaijin increases the weight, doesn't add armor, decides they should have worse mobility with evidence to the contrary, and wonders why the tanks underperform. They do this constantly with US tanks like the M41A1, having the turret traverse speed of the M41 despite having an upgraded traverse speed because one guy misread documents and submitted a bug report that was immediately corrected, but Gaijin still changed it.
Finally they implemented engine changes.
I THOUGHT I WAS ALONE ON THIS, ALSO ABRAMS ARE LIKE 1 SHOT KILL NOWDAYS ON GOD!
Honestly I've been playing the m3a3 Bradley in top tier more. Better thermals, hull down protection with commander optics, and tow 2bs. Plus scouting mechanics. Abrams are my second vehicle or the Apache
The real problem is realism. Gaijin is never clear on how much realism they want.
I thibk they should give the Abrams M1A2s a spall liner because these tanks aren't being used the same way as in real life.
The abrams is very heavy, this is why irl it has no spall liners but also has no need. The US army always expects to fire first or to have the airforce destroy ground targets. Giving spall liners would just make all of these tanks rough equals.
I can confirm from personal experience that the Abrams is significantly quieter than even an M113's diesel engine
Guys my brother is a Abrams driver not to go in to many details about him but i asked him some small questions as he never really answers many to begin with but i asked him how heavily armored the abrams is and he said and i qoute "its not as heavily armored as a leo but believe me when i tell you it can handle almost any round out there outside of direct shot in the side from under 500m" i asked him other stuff but guys the most modern abrams is heavily armored and yes they are extremely loud as well especially inside the tank as well. The noise for gameplay should be turned down but it is not as loud as gaijin has it but its pretty damn loud and the turbine is very distinct as i have been on base and seen him in action personally and this actually when he was operating a m1a2 sep and he has now moved on to the latest variant i believe. Guys gaijin has this tank so damn wrong and yes there is DU in the tank its everywhere apparently
Note : if russia sees the new abrams on the ukrainian battlefield they will consider this a nuclear attack and respond thats why we gave them the older ones, even they know the tank is littered in depeled uranium and russia has said because of this armor they will consider it an act of nuclear attack
Nuclear attack or not
If it cant survive 30 minutes under artillery is just a fancy Bradley
Recently a T-90 show it itself, got tap by 2 bradlies, either torret stuck or driver unconcious, needed 1 more drone for crew to flee.
Then artillery decimated zone.
Woth the expansion of air superiority and anti air capabilities has shown which nations prepared for powers battle and which didnt
Squad right now has more accurate Abrams than War thunder
Gaijin seeing proof regarding DU armor in Abrams tanks: There's not enough evidence, not happening.
Gaijin basing the T-90M stats on a sales pitch video for potential buyers: Everything seems to be legit here!
If they were to take T-90M characteristics out of thin air, they would add -15 kph of reverse speed to it. It is alleged, there are video proof, but there are no solid documents that can prove it, so they aren't adding it. So in game T-80BVM is better as of now. Abrams with its mobility and 5 second reload is now better than any Russian MBT anyway. So what is your problem?
@@Янус_Ырт the problem is gaijin cherry picking what sources to use and when to use them. Gaijin has added vehicles and features based off far less documentation than what’s been provided on the DU armor, M829A3 round, etc. It’s an issue of inconsistency, which to all appears as bias.
The T-90M in game is actually based on the T-90A… They had an opportunity to buff its armor, and reverse speed drastically. But guess what? There is no hard concrete proof a production T-90M can do 15 kmh in reverse, no data on the improved there array, or hull array if it is upgraded at all besides the Relikt.
The only improvements the T-90M has over the A is the ERA, spall liner (which won’t be guaranteed to save you lol), and gun handling… It’s fine to be upset with the state of the game, but don’t make things up. It weakens your side of the fence 9/10 in the long run, then gaijin will stop listening, and no one will take you seriously at all.
@@BARelement that's exactly my point - Gaijin could, but didn't, because no hard evidence, whilst author of original comment claims that T-90M parameters were taken out of thin air
@@Янус_Ырт "Abrams with its mobility and 5 second reload is now better than any Russian MBT anyway"
You are smoking crack
It's not just Gaijin who doesn't like these Americans. There are a lot of people who do that.
By no means am I an EXCELLENT player. But I think the Abrams is still objectively a BAD tank in game. My reasoning?
I've been playing since 2015, and I have Germany and Japan at top tier too. Germany was my first so, my stats are pretty bad on my leopards, but once I learnt how to play, they were amazing tanks.
And as for Japan, the Type 10 and 90 series of MBT have the most positive K/Ds. By a fair margin, too.
Whenever I play an Abrams, it feels slower, bigger, not much better protection, and STILL a slower reload than my Type 10s and 90s. Sure, it has a few more degrees of gun depression, but the hydraulic suspension on the JPN MBTs usually makes up for it, if you're playing them correctly.
The Abrams NEEDS an armor buff. When a 70, almost 80 ton tank is getting one-shotted just as much, usually MORE often than a 44-ton tank, there are issues.
as a french main I just want gaijin to bring the Leclerc's reload back to 5 seconds and buff the armor acoding to the sweds live round test values
Been grinding France lately. They have some great vehicles, but the snail seems afraid French mains are too good lol
More like Gaijin wants secret documents regarding the specs of american abrams.
I honestly dont even care for realism in top tier of wt, most of these numbers on the newest tanks are made up. I would just like them to sacriface some realism for balance and gameplay reasons.
Gaijin enjoys gaslighting. They’ll sit there and tell you that there’s not enough evidence etc to add something to a vehicle. Or DU was only added into the hull of a few Abrams so we can’t add it, meanwhile they’re plenty comfortable adding many vehicles that have never seen active duty. Warthunder loves it’s prototypes and doesn’t hold those vehicles to the same standard.
I’ll laugh when they’ll add the T-14 without it being in service
I think what would help the Abrams the most is to significantly reduce the size of the barels hitbox to like the size of the 105mm guns hitbox, about 80 percent of the time at any range and speed the barel will be hit due to the giant bore evaluator, like yeah ppl aim at it but with how often it gets hit I feel like the hitbox is way larger than what it should be.
Bro what 🤣
The "argument" or "debate" or "scandal" is just ridiculous. Their was a blueprint pic, Abrams with MORE PLATES IN THE TURRET AND HULL??? WOW cant make this up. Its likw Abrams got upgraded. The honest to God truth is Gaijin doesn't want NATO tanks to be strong and powerful, as they are irl better than Russian tanks. Because they are a Russian company. It's their game and their product, SURE BUT the Russian bias is 1000% crystal clear, clear like a summer sky now more than ever. The added weight of the SEPS and V2s is pure magic or air? The added weight is more armor for the Abrams. "Such a penetrator design has a big benefit against targets protected by heavy ERA, which is what the main target of the M829A3 development was."
Gaijin coping because Russian top tier MBTs will be penned like NATO tanks currently are. Yeah, iirc A3 was meant to "smash through" heavy ERAs while A4 was meant to "surgically go
through" heavy ERAs. The Russian bias truly is insane. Also they made the Abrams reload faster is their way of being "nice" and answer to "leave us alone about liners". ALSO this quote I love as well,
"Additionally, a significant weight increase from
such an armor package would lead to overloading the first pair of torsion bars, which already are under an increased load on the M1 series due to the placement of the frontal armor being positioned significantly far towards the front of the hull, as well as the large armored fuel tanks either
side of the driver." So did they just admit that the location by the driver DOES have more armor? So it's not fairy dust? It's not air? It truly is as if they WANT documents for some unspoken reason. Finally, the fact that Gaijin can keep buffing Russian vehicles because they feel like it would happen or they feel like those upgrades take place is just mind-boggling
Speaking of shells, the fact that Gaijin said they believe m829a3 offers no advantage over m829a2, and would do next to nothing against Kontakt 5 just shows they just make up numbers they like. The round was specifically made to be more effective against Kontakt 5 with its steel tip, and it’s been shown to work. Also Gaijin saying it wouldn’t have any better penetration against composite is also completely made up. There’s a noticeable length increase between a3 and a2, and that alone would give it better penetration.
First time seeing your video. I'm impressed by how well your points were made. Subbed.
I'm a US and Germany main. Playing Abrams feels like a straight up downgrade coming from a Leopard. A reload buff is a nice touch (which makes sense, since there is so much space within that turret). But Abrams desperately needs it's protection. When I'm playing against those tanks I always consider them an easy snack, whether I'm in Leopard or a T72.
Off topic: I'm desperately waiting on IR AA buffs and for Gaijin to make helicopters lockable by those weapons. In Ukraine helicopters don't go closer than around 10km to the frontline, scared of MANPADS, in WT you can't lock a heli that is 2km away from you.
tbh gaijin could have just came up with some random amount of increased protection say like 100mm of extra protection and call it DU armor for the hull, i would be completely fine with that, because the hull armor of the abrams stops around 370mm of pen from kinetic shells, having that extra 100mm or more would be awesome of course it just being an extra 100mm of effective thickness would mean its hull armor only stops like 470mm of pen, thats the same amount of or less than most top tier shells keeping it balanced. but it would give you a greater chance to bounce shells when you angle the tank. this is just my thoughts on it and how they could have implemented the "DU Hull Armor". i do have to say that the reload buff is nice but not what i was looking for
sorry for the paragraph lol
ngl but having more pen or armor definitely isn't goanna change shit for players if they keep relying on that instead of the pure mobility.
+ You are pretty much faster in every way
+ Your turret armor quite often bounces anything but the 292's round
(especially when slightly angling it when noticing the enemy is targeting Your gun barrel or Breech)
+ Your engine becomes near silent beyond 100m (Which means You're the Sneakiest MBT of the Modern tanks)
- Everybody knows where to shoot it.
- You absolutely can't rely on Your teammates.
- Sniping at long range often results in some bastard shooting through the turret ring regardless of You being hull down or not.
Let Me know if I missed some points, I'd like to know more
Some rounds shouldn’t pen abrams in some areas that it does. Like the lower front plate, due to angle, most rounds would shatter. GHPC models this much better. Also they really need to model spalling more correctly
I will just spam CAS with the F16C more if they don’t fix the Abrams. If the fucking A3 isn’t added the pave way on top of peoples heads will do the trick.
For spall liners and DU inserts for the SEP V2 there isn’t really much to say it did have them. When we get the SEP V3, it is extremely likely to get the DU hull upgrade. Though I am not sure what difference it will make in practice.
ODIN page literally says it
If the SEP V3's DU package is modeled correctly, the lower plate should be invulnerable to 3BM60 and maybe even DM53, though that could be a stretch. Abrams would have meaningful armor, and the turret ring and breach would still be the primary weak points.
No sep v2 has any spall liner. And no DU hull. There is no evidence for either. Only evidence of a du hull is the sep v3
I always hate the implementation of modern technologies very iffie.
Would prefer it not being implemented at all, just stick to what we know and maybe make 1 vehcalce for each faction that is evaluated for balance (each having an aspect to focus) and let player choose in what to focus.
And concidering Merican will cry to have their Abram, just have a diferent mode for incomplete or live it to models.
Now my reasons for it:
1- like expose, incloplete information AND information given by official who most likly exagerate them, and where test at 100% maintenance and only top marks stages.
2- Economic factors are ignore, this can be seen even today, russia had to fill up their tank with cheap termos because it coudnt aford more, they still work and how older tanks have basicly become arrillery. So aspect like material needed to produce arent accounted for, thus favouring heavily any tank who has "top of the line" as any cost of profuction, repair, training arent really ajusted and varied during states of the ecnomoy, i already doubted the ammo and fuel cost.
3- the issue with western vehacles, speaken out on the video, now why is that so?
And the reason is clear:
-Over use of funds
-Corruption
-Useless tech
This is a byproduct of modern defens department being in bed with the weapones producer, time and time again (even before but more so eviently now) producers will expend exorbitants amount of money in little upgrades, useless changes and even just drcalre a whole research trash and fiscar it, sometimes even getting a reinvestment for the loss.
You've got some factual mistakes, though, they don't make that much sense.
M1A1 HC doesn't has M829A2, only A1.
(there was something else, but I forgot)
M1A1 AIM might not be the best Abrams, but definitely not the worst. There isn't that much difference between M829A1 and KE-W, but Gen 2 thermals for AIM definitely is a buff. Gen 1 thermals are so fucking blurry it makes actual aiming hard enough and goes well for general target recognition, while Gen 2 thermals make aiming for weakspots at range comfortable.
On top of that I'd tell that there two 'families' of Abrams tanks: first one is earlier lighter ones (M1, IPM1, M1A1, KVT) and later heavies (M1A1 HC and others). And once you've got to the point where Abrams got fat enough and got over 60 tons any more weight doesn't feels at all. I've got more than 3000 battles in Abrams tanks and I can tell you that these heavy M1s don't really vary one to another in terms of mobility. But the advantages of going on and on are clear: with M1A2 you get the CITV and M829A2, with SEP V1 you getting Gen 2 thermals. And only then with SEP V2 all you get is some bad-ass looking tank but on practice nothing else but extra weight.
no photos inside of the tank or books/documents shows that Abrams has spall liner
I'm grinding the mine protection package for the Sep v2 before I grind any mobility upgrades
God I can't wait for the storm when and if they add the V3 the only way people won't whine is if it gets trophy as an add on because there is very little difference between the V2 and V3 it's mostly internal there is an armor "upgrade" but the change is unknown
I hate gaijin like nothing else. They dont care about authenticity for America and will nerf their tanks into oblivion but are more than happy to buff other nations MBTs for "balance"
The bias still stands strong I guess
Not gonna be suprised if there is going to be another leak incident.
This video needs to go to snail HQ
Na, they hate the Challenger more....
Abrams doesn’t have spall liners
They seem like their armor is weak vs the other countries top tier
TKX and type 10 would disagree
Italy top tier mbt is worse
The merkavas will like to have a word aswell. The type 10 and TKX feel better to play than them.@@no-wl9xx
I love how this dude uses his brain and logic to show his opinion
At least you had a reload buff
Wow...Really good and informative video...Thank you.
wish you get bigger than spookbiastoon
The video needs more recognition
Make video about Merkava IV next
people worrying about the abrams when all the leclere's are incredibly horrible and tragic to play, it's a travesty when they have nothing going for it
The leclercs are horrible??? Since when buddy 😂
I've seen a Leclerc survive more shots than Abrams
@@Optimusprime56241 terrible round, virtually no armor, decent speed, nice auto loader, massive ammo rack, massive lowerplate, massive turret weakspot, 3 crew
@@xvphoenixvii5146 ofl 120 f1 is good enough to kill most tanks, you literally just proved yourself wrong lol.
M1A1 HC doesn’t get M829A2
Eow, all are good suggestions to help the M1 Family, but if think the damn Communist Snail will fix it, you're dreaming....Anything than might oppose Russian Fun is nerfed and ignored
Idk why us mains are supposedly bad, we just like russian have to actually get good to get through 5.0-6.7
M1A1 "Click-Bait" sale...
The SEP V2 had APS
Abrams players are just like tiger players,saw a documentary or a movie about it, thought it's invincible,rushed the enemy and got spanked,then proceeding to blame it on russian bias
You think Leopard 2 and T-80 players aren't the exact same?
They won't give it M829A3 (entered service in the mid-2000's), DU armor, or the integral spall liner. They're fine speculating on modern tanks like the Challenger 3, Type-10, T-90M, VT-4, but they won't speculate when it comes to classified information.
bro, what do you mean russian engines are whisper quite, I hear a T90 from 5 blocks away, I aim where he is going to go, at the position he is going to be in 1 minute from how loud this mf is, vacuum needs to be turned of
what actually sucks in my opinion is the germans and similar, not as being too bad but as being too good, germans are that fkin surviveble and the undervariants are also crazy like the Type 90+ yes sure other technology, but same crew compartment, same survivability, 4s reload, yes for slightly worse shell which doesn't make a diff to me anyway
Excellent video, you got yourself a sub
15:07 simple mistake, heaviest MBT in game. There's still the Maus and E100
Maus and E100 were heavies not main battle tanks
the video topic implies MBTs. thats such a needless nitpick
Читая комментарии, я начинаю понимать почему кому-то нравится нытьё Джонов.
Они столько срут на другие страны, что другого отношения невозможно ожидать.
gaijin hates abrams? NOOOOOOOOOOO REALLY? RUSSIANS HATING AMERICANS? WOOOOW WHO COULDA GUESSED?
Russian bias, research the apfsds changes to sloped armour then when we used hesh against t72s that was nerfed against the exact angle the t72 upper front plate is, then look at the pantsir compared to any other nation and how there is a fully premium 10.0 lineup that is the best in the game
What are hellfire missiles like for the apaches now? Just got back into wt after a year and these missile was dogshit before. Couldnt take out other helis with them, bushes/tress use to ruin there aim. They still.just as bad?
Video on helis this week actually. They're not great
gaijin uses RT news for sources
cant a agree more i researched down the 105 abrams and gor one of the 120 abrams and ones i got that m1a1 i stopped play the americans and played my swedish strv122 much more fun too play sweden then usa imo at to tier
gaijin are russian biased, and taking into consideration that theyre an agency from Hungary it just seals the deal, its so obvious. i dont mean to make this political, but for what other reason other than petty political reasons would they make the modern russian tech so vastly superior to modern u.s tech? in reality the exact opposite is clearly the case. the m1 abrams is touted as being the best modern heavy main battle tank, the u.s military has never lost an abrams in battle ever, only disabled. some Saudi Abrams were destroyed in Yemen, but they m1a2s' and they didnt have DU armor.
we know that t90s dont perform as well as abrams by a longshot as seen in Syria and Ukraine. In Ukraine a t90m was famously disabled by a couple of god damn old m2 bradleys with their chain guns for god's sake, not even their TOW missiles.... get real, gaijin, honestly.
Great video!
Abrams is so fcking op I have no idea what yall talking about.... I played it, I played against it .... its op. not even close to be bad. US techtree is op. Aritie and Type 90 are bad
Why even make a video on Russian bias? It is basically confirmed by Gaijin them selves. Infact you said so many examples of it yourself just in this video.
all i'm saying russian company... best tanks are soviet, best plane is soviet. Russian bias pretty clear.
Best course of action that is substantiated by evidence is to give abrams tanks m829a3, giving America a better shell will not change the current game balance at all because while m829a3 is capable of penetrating through kontakt 5, only 1 tank in the game uses kontakt 5 the t72B at 10.0, so adding a new shell would not change the current lost rate of America. What would change is players because Abrams is incredibly easy to kill if you know what you are doing. Shooting the turret ring and the cannon breach is where I mostly shoot. Any increases in armor in those areas would make abrams tanks more survivable. Spaller liners would also help, but looking at the interior of abrams tanks, there are no spall liners of any kind, so tough luck america players. Adding M829A4 would make abrams tanks better, but by adding that, we would likely see buffs to other nations out of fairness. These buffs would likely be better apfsds rounds, but it would ultimately hurt gameplay because it would just result in whoever gets the first shot off wins which is already the case at top tier instead it is now more brain dead as players just shoot the upper front plate majority of the time and going straight through it. What would ultimately help America is aircraft. HARM missiles would make spaa completely useless at top tier. What would also help is longer range maps as the abrams currently has a better reload rate and a hull down abrams can tank multiple rounds as seen in those new really long range maps that are very unpopular. I have shot 11 dm53 rounds into an abrams at 5km's and the shell either hit the dirt or the rock that he was hiding behind or it would just hit the upper front plate and bounce off because at that range most shell's effectiveness would be in the double digits or less than 200mm's of effectiveness.
1 tank uses K5? Uh buddy the T80U,UK & the UMT event one? thats a whole lineup of K5 MBTs
@@SteelxWolf Forgot about those, I just searched up how many tanks have kontakt 5 in war thunder and it only gave t72b, turns out there are like 5 other tanks that have kontakt 5.
@@allenliu8820 lmao
I complitly agree wit everything
Gaijin is bias and stingy
Because the Abrams never had spall liner for the crew compartment, and on top of that there were only ever a small handful of Abrams that had the DU armor & none of them were in active service, not to mention the fact that the armor change between the SEP & the V2 is essentially nonexistent.
when has not being in the active service stopped gaijin adding anything? Just examples from the top of the head: USA - basically all T series tanks, as they were tests, USSR - basically all objects, UK - prototype challenger 3. That is a very stupid argument on the part of gaijin, honestly as they add prototype vehicles all the time, why not for abrams? Just call it Abrams DU(H)P or something.
All of what you’re saying has been disproven already in the forums in the Abrams hull armor thread; the Abrams has an inlayed/integrated spall liner and it has had DU in the hull since at least the M1A1 SA.
better examples: the Yak 141 lmao@@TheMarecek05
Russian bias has always been a thing in warthunder.
Yeah for those (still thinking its true), TUSK 2 doesn't have a reliable and proven source of having extra hull armor, aka it simply doesnt have it
Yeah I’m sure you got straight out of putins asshole
Stfu edgy kid, it does literally lmao, this is so funny because we know it does have it
@thestrain. "edgy kid" 💀 nice one whats edgy about that smart one. I DARE YOU find me a realiable source of that. Typical US main malding lmao. "We all know" nice one kiddo
@@SovietUnion_ look at your username and UA-cam account 💀if I would be you I would hang myself
dont get why people complain that much about the abrams. i am grinding the last toptier tank now what is the SEP V2. i started with Russia then Germany ,Sweden , Britain , Chinese and now the SEP V2. other than the constant whining in the chat about the Abrams tank there is really not much life left in the USA players. I got the M1A2, AIM, Click Bait and the SEP in my lineup along with the HSTV-L i barely get to use 2 tanks before the battle is over because the whiners have left after rushing into their death after 2 minutes. i get along with the Abrams just fine. it has decent mobility and a strong turret. it can tank a hit or two as long as you dont expose your hull too much. People speak about the Abrams as if its some kind of supertank while it is mediocre at best in real life. it has never really been in a tank to tank combat. and i refuse to count the Iraq war a tankbattle. that was old poorly maintained T72 with Dummyrounds. it swallows fuel like a stage 3 alcoholic which diminish its range significant its heavy and bulky. the only real good thing about the Abrams is the Maingun. i do not know at what standart the M1 is today. but taking the SEP V2 you cant really find any sources about depleted uranium beeing added. i followed up on gaijins post about their sources and i have to give them that point this time. the tank would be way too heavy for extra armor in the front. the whole suspention system would need a rework. and the added weight would diminish the effectiv range of the tank even further. i wish people would just play the game instead of complaining about a thing no one really knows even excists in the V2 version. maybe in the future we will see some added electronic warfare systems added to the abrams giving it an edge over its opponents. but until then.. just play the damn game.
Gaijin hates Challengers, not abrams. Gaijin also loves Leopards, not T-80/90s.
Edit: imagine being an Abrams main and crying that Gaijin "hates NATO tanks", then gaijin listens and gives spall liners to the strongest NATO mbts in the game, ZE LEOPARDS. 😅
People are wanting spall liners in the Abrams yet, there ARE NO spall liners in the Abrams. This can even be confirmed by tank Commanders.
I just watched a video from a tanker who served in the Abrams stating that the Abrams does have spall liners
@@cs-ty6ho I don't know what video you watched then. Because the Abrams does not use spall liners unlike it's other foreign allies.
if im not wrong, non of the abrams had any spalliners, if you look in side of an abrams you see simple steel. Source: ua-cam.com/video/pMxflfgEzY0/v-deo.html
I heard most of the source got disproved from Redeffect on that video not sure
Wouldn't take his "trust me bro" claim for spall liner. Many people say that It doesnt have spall liner but has an alternative thats just as good or smth
@@Super_Idol he just causally waves off internal spall liners without actually thinking about it
The concept of hardback spall liners have literally existed since the age of dreadnoughts by replacing the rearmost layer with a wooden hull to limit the amount of shrapnel coming into the compartment and stop shrapnel from the outer metal hulls. The abrams uses a more advanced concept of this because the US actually looked into material sciences alongside Britain
Considering the Americans were the first to use spall liners. Documentation or not… its a stretch to suggest they dont use it at all on their latest gen MBT.
The M60s had it. Why wouldn’t the Abrams? Sure it may not be as much or in as many places but I call BS on having none whatsoever.
A YT video mentioning the T90Ms spall liner location got passed and corrected on the Dev and nobody really noticed
Yes we can tho we have plenty of sources.
There's no proof that the hull has DU there's only proof that the turret has DU
The spall liner is only in the turret behind a metal plate so idk how effective it is
also the du was only introduced later on so only the later sep2 will get it
So it will basically be an HC
And than bro brings up the British the most falsely buffed tree in the game
Where I personally do agree with you they could make shit up and buff it same way they did with the chally since irl it has gen1 thermals, no spall liner, and a slower reload compared to its nato cousins since 2 piece ammo, and possibly the CR2 and CR1 share the same hull armor.
But personally fuck the DU its shit either way that wont improve much give me the Tandem Ceramic armor that they use instead that shit will be amazing (still no proof that its in the hull.)
Bustle rack* No crew compartment spall liners are seen in any pictures, even crew members say this too.
Initially army was only allowed to use DU for their tanks turret front and 5 test hulls to test effect of radioactivity on the crew. But they made an amendment to DU license they had back in 24th august 2006 which states army is allowed to use DU meshes in both turret front and hull front outright. Meaning both SEP and SEPV2 should have it as they were produced after 2006. Gaijin simply ignores this document. Not to mention there are simply too much sources for DU usage in abrams hull. Steven zaloga says 750mm of KE protection which means DU as well as Russian primary sources themselves predict somewhere around 700mm of KE protection on hull front.
DU if implemented would make abrams hull front invulnerable to any sabot in the game. Because gaijin already has a model and estimate for DU NERA we see on the turret. Hull front would be similar to it.
@@BARelement thats the part where I say the spall liner doesn't make sense on how it works its behind a metal plate in the turret that's why you cant see it.
@@Phapchamp And yet all the sources we have talking about the DU armor in the turret somehow forget about DU in hull (YES the sources about sepV2). You know US military is just a bunch of random guys can't blame them for forgetting to mention something as important as putting radioactive material into the hull of the tank.