@@somerandometanker3455 It's widely known and agreed that the Abrams Turbine engine is quieter than other conventional power plants . It was a factor in the US militaries choice of power pack ( and the fact the other power pack never achieved its goals ) .
@@somerandometanker3455high frequency sound travels less distance than low frequency, or at least becomes less audible. The problem is that gaijin either can't or doesn't model that because games are difficult when it comes to that
If we don’t get spall liners we should get Crewman PPE. Modern tank crews are equipped with Kevlar vests and ballistic helmets that could improve survivability. PPE is already available in most Helicopters.
I’m not aware of any t-80b’s that were given thermals, and no t-80u’s ever had thermals. Even t-80bv’s used today don’t have thermals and it took the t-80u(m) to finally get them. Gaijin just added them because they wanted more Russian tanks to have them.
@@beetlusjuicus4013 and the base M1 still doesn’t have the correct ammo to be able to pen the T-72’s front plate. If you’re saying they added thermals for “balance” it’s an inconsistent stance at best.
@@devendoffing7004the base m1 never was able to pen the front and late of the T72A and the T80b, this is what caused nato to upsize to the 120mm gun which inversely caused the soviets to change construction methods of the T72B and T80U, these changes pretty much brought the Soviet armor values up to par, so in this way Soviet tanks especially in 9.0 are unrealistic because a vehicle like a striker can pop the front plate, so while the t80b having thermals is unrealistic so is nato shell performance and Soviet armor numbers
When you realize the base M1A1 can apply ARAT era but gaijin does not give it what it should have, same applies to the M1A1 AIM also capable to use ARAT ERA.
@@jerbyjerboa what a biased shitcompany, i mean check out that they get russian jet fighters with R-73 but no AIM-9X for americans in comparison whattaheck is that.
@@williewilson2250 i mean if you want to add weight, youd at least want to add weight that matters or makes a difference. magically gaining weight but no effectiveness is what the video pointed out
@@PerciusLive well for how useless ERA for western tanks is atm, why would anyone want to put it on the m1a1 which is already heavy enough for how weak it's armor is at 11.0?
One big thing which could help the Abrams at top tier could be to add electronic warfare to the game. TUSK equipped M1s have a CREW system which jams out radio signals within a couple hundred meters. Now that there are drones in the game, that's significant because you can't fly a drone near an M1. If you're close, you also can't use cell phone or a radio unless your fills match. The difficulty putting it in would be that the range is not publicly available, but everything in game is closer than IRL anyway, and commo in game is abstract, so treating it more as a game mechanic and less as hard data should be fine. The way it could work would be that within a radius of the CREW system, enemy drones don't work, and an enemy within that radius can't call for arty, spot targets, or set squad markers, nor see spotted targets or map markers from other players. Within the EM bubble coms are down. US CREW systems leave allied frequencies open, so it would have no effect on allies. IRL the range is very short, so in game 50-100m would approximate it. IRL the system was intended to stop remote detonated IEDs, and is considered too short range for other purposes, but it does disable all radio and at the distances in War Thunder where drones fly right over you and enemies hide around the corner, it would make a difference. In the real world, the US had Warlock or Duke CREW systems on almost every deployed combat vehicle by 2007, and it's part of the TUSK and BUSK packages on Abrams and Bradley. I've never seen it on a vehicle stateside, and I'm not positive which vehicles other than the M1 might have it. I know the Brits put the same or similar systems on some of their vehicles, but not sure if it was every single vehicle like the US.
I think this would be absolutely busted, maybe if it was some kind of ability like arty or one time use feature because if it were active 24/7 you would have to make it extremely niche like an aps system on t-90a in terms of usefulness. Maybe if you needed to spot a target and jam them, similar to a scouting mechanic but instead of them being spotted on the map they would be jammed for a short period of time (even then I think it would be extremely powerful) I don't think that abrams struggles that much to begin with, especially after a reload buff it's a complete menace. The biggest buff an abrams can get is make the engine noises quieter because I can hear it coming from across the map.
@@Mr_Sakul Aren't the Abrams still doing the worst at top tier? I feel that if they don't increase the armor or give spall liners like on other tanks, having it block out drones should heavily even the playing field
The spall-liner thing is just stupid. It's old tech basically nearly every main battle tank after the introduction of HESH rounds has it, even some vehicles prior to this. They are carrying on like this is cutting edge secret stuff.
@@acedogboy8421 I agree the Abrams doesn’t have spall liner but gaijins excuse to not upgrade the armor is just dumb since they already guessed on other tanks armor (Russia) and made them super hard to pen
It don’t. In game it says it has the same turret armor values in the X-ray view but in reality the M1IP(and M1A1) turret is much weaker. The M1A2 and the up armored 11.3 M1A1s can stop top tier rounds such as DM53, 3BM60, etc while the M1IP cannot.
@@niixodus I do not think it is a fair comparison, especially considering it is based on anecdotal experience. One is at a lower battle rating than the other. The only way to really test it is versus the same shells.
@@niixodus There really isn't any other way to properly compare them other than testing it properly in-game or protection analysis. Its probably happenstance.
I've been thinking for a while that instead of another major update, Gaijin should just release a "major bugfix". Basically all that would entail is going through all known bugs and fixing them, as well as taking a look at vehicles that are missing features. I don't have them, but I've heard from a lot of players who do but the Ariete, Leclerc, and Merkava apparently are missing a lot of features that other nations tanks are getting, or just have worse stats than they should have. Gaijin in my opinion is adding too much shit without going back and fixing any of the old neglected stuff.
Throw in a major map rework because lets face it most of them are complete trash and a hitbox and damage registration tweak (Im really sick and tired of turret rings and tracks and wooden poles on some maps eating my rounds for no reason).
They should have a 2nd dev team like Stellaris has. They’re known as the Custodian team and all they do is fix bugs and bring old content up to the new standards
Gajin thinks the country with the largest military budget in the world, hasn’t improved the armor of their main battle tank since 1988. As for spall liners, do you think the country with the highest military budget in the world wouldn’t instal spall liners in their MBT that already has depleted Uranium armor? Either they work and the Abrams has it, or it didn’t work or was deemed unnecessary and the Abram s doesn’t have it. Do you think a post Cold War broke Russia can afford spall liners when. The US can’t? Do you think Germany, with 1/100th the military budget of the US can afford spall liners, when the Us can’t? It’s even funnier when you factor in that the US went with the American Abrams, instead of the German Leopard 2 as their MBT because the Abrams was found to have higher survivability. You literally have to throw all logic out the window, to think the Abrams isn’t the best MBT in the world, and is woefully underpowered in games The Abrams costs around 10$ million, while the leopard 2 costs about 6$ million. The US has spends more on its military than the next 10 nations on that list combined. But you think the Us suddenly cheats out when it comes to spall liners? What an absolutely ridiculous notion. You have to throw all logic out the window to think that.
@@acedogboy8421 Is that subjectivity obvious to you? The country who spends more than the next 10 militaries on the list, would cheap out and not put spall liners on their tanks? You think the US would want to save that couple thousand dollars inbred spall liners on the Abrams?
@@acedogboy8421 why would a US tank have spall liners when the armor is Depleted Uranium? Spall liners are for steel armor, as a backup if it’s penetrated. Depleted Uranium armor on an Abrams is not meant to be penetrated by any modern tank foe of the United States.
@@fudalefu1 fucking what? For one no abrams has had a DU hull untill sep v3. 2 in that logic no t90m or t14 needs a spall liner bc they probably cant be penetrated. What fucking whack logic is that?
Pretty good video, but some small misconceptions. The current 11.0 Abrams: M1a1 and IPM1 were not "Buffed" they were nerfed from their original 10.3 br, this happened when the IPM1 was given M900 and stomped the MM for a few months before the BR changes made it 10.7. After that 10.3 america was still way to strong in gaijins eyes so they wanted to nuke the whole line up by making the M1A1 higher br(10.7). Which for a while was fine until yet again the M1A1 and IP were stomping that 10.7 bracket for months so gaijin "buffed" them again to 11.0 but this time the M1A1 was now way to high to justify its M829 shell so it was given A1 to compensate. These were not "buffs" they were moved up in BR and given a shell so it was not DOA. This happens all the time in videos like these were a youtuber would say that a tank was buffed when it was in fact not and just given better ammo or some other buff to compensate for its BR increase. The best iterations of these tanks were at the lower BRs not the state they are currently in. As for what you said about why the abrams are struggling its really not complicated. They are just terrible tanks, the other major nations have tanks like the 2a5/6/7 or bvm ect.... That all pretty much have enough armor to cover for their in your own words "less skilled on average players" which in this case means that the abrams never will save a bad player from making a mistake like the BVM or leopards do. This means that on average your teams will instantly fold because they will not be able to out "luck" the enemy team. This on top of the fact that america has been given the most amount of top tier premium and reward vehicles in the game. This means that a majority of your teams will be these complete trash reward and premium players who have 0 line up and will 100% 1 death leave most battles. This is on top of another phenomenon where russian and US teams seem to spawn a lot of IFV type vehicles that are completely worthless at top brs which only exacerbates the issues mentioned earlier. In summary this isnt an issue that can be fixed with 1-2 small changes, it would take a complete overhaul of the armor and other vehicles of the top tier american line up to make them even remotely competitive with their german and russian counterparts. Mainly the ADATS needs to not be a TD and needs to go back to the 110 SPAA spawn cost for starters. This goes for the UK as well, having a low cost SPAA is crucial for players who are bad or had a bad game to support the team and try to get back into a tank. The fact that the US's only viable spaa is 300+ sp on a second spawn and almost 500 on a third is utterly insane, and contributes to the seemingly catastrophic collapses that american teams seems to have in most top tier games. Other wise i agree with most of the changes you said, and 100% agree that changes need to be made on the basis of gameplay not realism.
Lets not forget the BVM was added way too early. That tank is so noob friendly (on top of all the volumetric changes to shells and armor leading to it eating shots. OR the lowered detonation chance on par with the Leclrec which has a blowout rack...) it was able to stomp last gen M1A1s for a very long time. Also the M1IP was indeed buffed. BR shift is not always the sign of a nerf. M1IP running with M774 forever sucked, the reload made up for the lack of damage. M833 was added too late to actually lol pen anything. M900 finally brought it to its real service standard giving it the ability to handle lesser targets but still relied on the reload to pinpoint hit weak spots. The added pen of M900 made weak spot shooting MORE consistent as well. There is no argument that the M1IP was NOT somehow buffed multiple times. The M1A1 was indeed buffed to compensate for its new BR. and shell. The M1A1 ate T64Bs and T80Bs for breakfast even with M829. Also BR shifts alleviated some of the compression 9.7-10.7 experienced. Now of course we have under tiered 2S38s running around but that's a topic for a different day. He used the term "buffed" correctly. The M1IP was always an 11.0 tank, it was simply added too early and in a "nerfed" state.
@@SteelxWolfit's an indirect nerf to the ipm1 and m1a1 (except this one is decent but pointless because the ipm1 is better than it) because now you're simply nullifying it's armor in exchange for a shell that still adds nothing for you. You still need to aim for the exact same weak spots and you're fighting better armor. It's a glass cannon that could've stayed where it was
@@BARelement It is, but gaijin has literally ignored bug reports that state the ariete has composite armour in the hull and the turret, which is stated on the manufacturer's website to be there. It is also missing small liners currently but that may be fixed soon.
@@BARelement this was due to an American quote but it was aimed at the majour nations of the Nato, so being worse that Leopards, Leclercs and Abrams's is not really telling things, it's one of the least armored but the Italian government when they build the WAR armor kit said that with that it's on par with other Nato tanks, at the time Germany used Leopards 2A6, some put the Armor a little less under the Leopards 2A5 in the turret, the UFP should be better too, remember the WAR kit weighs 6 tonns, the electronic sistems are really something in it, Leonardo is a master when it comes to them, the new C2 Ariete now gets upgraded electronics all from the B2 Centauro, so all cutting edge technologies, some of the best in the world, you need to observe that Italy has a really similar strategy to Japan when it comes to armored vehicles
@@Corxed spall liners come next update, guaranteed by Gaijin, also the fact that the last bug report on the Ariete armor and the fact that they wait for the implementation of the spall liner(becouse it's quite important for the balance of top tier) tells me that they may be reworking finally the armor to be more similar to the IRL counterpart, but it's just could be copium on my part
It’s kind of a Russia main vs US main thing and then the other countries 3rd party the convo with “well our tanks have always been trash so why’s it a problem that your’s is now”
They are benefiting from it because there is a large portion of the player base that playes whats OP, and they have settled into russia, and they as well as tankies don't want to lose that.
@@OkamiiSenpai Bruh, have you seen the stats? USSR at top tier has the SECOND worse win rate, every other nation is doing just fine. You ameritards are just awful quitters that whine a lot when you can't spawn CAS. Cry harder.
What bothers me is, why not make the US tree stronger so its more fun to play matches against them? How is it fun to be in the enemy spawn inside 4 minutes and barely anyone gets a kill?
The best thing is, Gaijin says that the Torsion bars of the Abrams couldn't handle the weight. Which they added anyways. And saying that the numbers of vehicles fitted with Du armor is something to consider is bullshit, the T-80B never had thermals, except for one or maybe a few prototypes.
It's very simple: Russia likes to publicize characteristics advertising a higher capability than reality (either cause they are not good enough or do not perform in real scenarios due to lack of maintenance for example) NATO countries, especially USA is more secretive and likes to advertize lower values than the actual full capabilities ( for example they might say a dart can penetrate 650mm even though it showed 700+ in certain scenarios just to guarantee the 650 in all cases and also negate enemies preparation (Russia padding armor to resist 650 but then losing cause the dart pens 700, just a fictional example) this makes Gaijin use public information, Russia being propaganda numbers and USA/NATO being standard specs (playing it down or on par with real performance). this skews the all game balance in all modes. the effects of propaganda numbers made real and effective at all times with pristine vehicles with no maintenance variable is commonly called Russian Bias.
100% you nailed it with the way the US and Russia publicize their data. A really good real world example would be the MiG-25 which was said to be this incredible plane that could do XYZ better than any US jet. The US believing that info went and created the F-15 to meet or exceed the info they had on the MiG-25. Later on a MiG-25 pilot defected taking his plane with him and the US discovered all the info they had on it was bullshit and the F-15 was leagues better and easily, imo, the best fighter of the Cold War.
@@DefaultProphet даже в Ираке вас сбивали советские самолеты. В ИРАКЕ. Это как если человек, которому переломали каждую косточку, сможет выбить зубы обидчику. Если бы систему ПВО им сделал Союз, коалиция прожила бы гораздо более тяжелую жизнь там, где им не место.
I don't know how they determined M829A3 wouldn't increase performance against common enemies like the T-80 BVM and T-90M given it was explicitly designed to counter the heavy ERA of the tanks. - If implemented in such a way that it significantly reduced the efficiency of Kontakt 5 and Relikt (an ability DM53 should also have) it would certainly help the win rate although the new Leo 2s with spall liners would likely still be better than the Abrams
@@semicooperative7188A3 was designed against the Kontakt-5, not Relikt. As US discovered that their sabot's (A1) couldn't penetrate the newer series of tanks with integrated ERA (aka Kontakt-5), they developed 2 new sabots, M829A2 and A3. M829A2 was more of a brute force solution to the problem with increasing the rod's length and raw performance (and was not reliable), while A3 also adds a steel tip that can be disintegrated from the rod easily and quickly when in touch with the ERA plates, so the ERA doesn't adjust the direction of the sabot (or damage the integrity of it). But Relikt works in a different way than the Kontakt-5, it cant be defeated by a single steel tip. DM-53 also has the "Anti-ERA" tip, similar to M829A3, thus is able to penetrate tanks with Kontakt-5 while DM-43 can't, and M829A2 sometimes is able to penetrate them while A1 clearly can't. M829A3 and DM-53 renders the Kontakt-5 useless, not Relikt
Slowly... but surely... US mains start to feel more like OG Ger mains with the "Russian bias" claims all the way in 2014 Sad to see the Abrams on its current state, and its absolutly retarded how overtuned is the T90A vs real life but its funny and ironic to see.
@@JMLuu. what? Not at all, Bradleys suck, slower in every way to Russian BMP-2M and Puma, HSTV-L still doesn't have it's proper shell penetration and proxy round with IRST when similar Russian vehicle, 2S38 is at 1.3 BR lower yet still have all these with 3x fire rate and 10x the ammo reserve. And also no proper SPAA at top tier really sucks. Only thing attractive about USA is the F-16 as CAS but that is getting old now with Su-25SM3, Gripen, F-16AM additons.
I think trying to make this game as close to the real life vehicles is what's causing a lot of these problems also the devs are inconsistent with the prerequisites of x or y being added. Their rationale of not adding DU for the Abrams is fine only if they did the same for other trees like the 2s38 shouldn't be in if they were consistent. But No the abrams doesn't have a spall liner could it get one ingame sure for fairness
Yes! This is what I’m talking about. This is just a fucking game, and the game is supposed to balance and competitive. Now the win rate of U.S top tier is so bad so it should be make to balance. But gaijjn said there is no source to prove the point of Abrams armor. Is this a game or something else have to be source so they can balance things
12:30 the aim has better turret armor which stops 3bm60 unlike the m1a1 which can only stop 3bm42 (only on the left side of the turret) it's a copy paste hc without the soft kill and a marginally worse round. so you're quite a bit more effective hull down because the m1a1, still against a bvm or even a t-80u that have really 2-3 places you can shoot them while they can pretty much look at your entire tank and pen you makes it almost unplayable
tbh gaijin could have just came up with some random amount of increased protection say like 100mm of extra protection and call it DU armor for the hull, i would be completely fine with that, because the hull armor of the abrams stops around 370mm of pen from kinetic shells, having that extra 100mm or more would be awesome of course it just being an extra 100mm of effective thickness would mean its hull armor only stops like 470mm of pen, thats the same amount of or less than most top tier shells keeping it balanced. but it would give you a greater chance to bounce shells when you angle the tank. this is just my thoughts on it and how they could have implemented the "DU Hull Armor". i do have to say that the reload buff is nice but not what i was looking for
Honestly, lower the engine noise, buff the turret ring and giving it a spall liner would boost the Abrams into relevancy again. Every tank since the 80s has been fitted with a spall liner. I would love the M829A3 just for the sole purpose of defeating ERA as that’s why that round was developed for in the first place. But I’ll take what I can get right now. But M829A4 was designed to have a higher penetrating value and defeat the latest developed ERA. They can buff the turret cheeks if they see fit, won’t make too much of a difference but I have punch through it before with DM53. So DU in the turret will make it 100% impenetrable. But Gajin has also admitted that the SEPv3 did receive a armor upgrade in the turret and hull.
Some rounds shouldn’t pen abrams in some areas that it does. Like the lower front plate, due to angle, most rounds would shatter. GHPC models this much better. Also they really need to model spalling more correctly
I think what would help the Abrams the most is to significantly reduce the size of the barels hitbox to like the size of the 105mm guns hitbox, about 80 percent of the time at any range and speed the barel will be hit due to the giant bore evaluator, like yeah ppl aim at it but with how often it gets hit I feel like the hitbox is way larger than what it should be.
Guys my brother is a Abrams driver not to go in to many details about him but i asked him some small questions as he never really answers many to begin with but i asked him how heavily armored the abrams is and he said and i qoute "its not as heavily armored as a leo but believe me when i tell you it can handle almost any round out there outside of direct shot in the side from under 500m" i asked him other stuff but guys the most modern abrams is heavily armored and yes they are extremely loud as well especially inside the tank as well. The noise for gameplay should be turned down but it is not as loud as gaijin has it but its pretty damn loud and the turbine is very distinct as i have been on base and seen him in action personally and this actually when he was operating a m1a2 sep and he has now moved on to the latest variant i believe. Guys gaijin has this tank so damn wrong and yes there is DU in the tank its everywhere apparently Note : if russia sees the new abrams on the ukrainian battlefield they will consider this a nuclear attack and respond thats why we gave them the older ones, even they know the tank is littered in depeled uranium and russia has said because of this armor they will consider it an act of nuclear attack
Nuclear attack or not If it cant survive 30 minutes under artillery is just a fancy Bradley Recently a T-90 show it itself, got tap by 2 bradlies, either torret stuck or driver unconcious, needed 1 more drone for crew to flee. Then artillery decimated zone. Woth the expansion of air superiority and anti air capabilities has shown which nations prepared for powers battle and which didnt
Honestly I've been playing the m3a3 Bradley in top tier more. Better thermals, hull down protection with commander optics, and tow 2bs. Plus scouting mechanics. Abrams are my second vehicle or the Apache
For spall liners and DU inserts for the SEP V2 there isn’t really much to say it did have them. When we get the SEP V3, it is extremely likely to get the DU hull upgrade. Though I am not sure what difference it will make in practice.
If the SEP V3's DU package is modeled correctly, the lower plate should be invulnerable to 3BM60 and maybe even DM53, though that could be a stretch. Abrams would have meaningful armor, and the turret ring and breach would still be the primary weak points.
The "argument" or "debate" or "scandal" is just ridiculous. Their was a blueprint pic, Abrams with MORE PLATES IN THE TURRET AND HULL??? WOW cant make this up. Its likw Abrams got upgraded. The honest to God truth is Gaijin doesn't want NATO tanks to be strong and powerful, as they are irl better than Russian tanks. Because they are a Russian company. It's their game and their product, SURE BUT the Russian bias is 1000% crystal clear, clear like a summer sky now more than ever. The added weight of the SEPS and V2s is pure magic or air? The added weight is more armor for the Abrams. "Such a penetrator design has a big benefit against targets protected by heavy ERA, which is what the main target of the M829A3 development was." Gaijin coping because Russian top tier MBTs will be penned like NATO tanks currently are. Yeah, iirc A3 was meant to "smash through" heavy ERAs while A4 was meant to "surgically go through" heavy ERAs. The Russian bias truly is insane. Also they made the Abrams reload faster is their way of being "nice" and answer to "leave us alone about liners". ALSO this quote I love as well, "Additionally, a significant weight increase from such an armor package would lead to overloading the first pair of torsion bars, which already are under an increased load on the M1 series due to the placement of the frontal armor being positioned significantly far towards the front of the hull, as well as the large armored fuel tanks either side of the driver." So did they just admit that the location by the driver DOES have more armor? So it's not fairy dust? It's not air? It truly is as if they WANT documents for some unspoken reason. Finally, the fact that Gaijin can keep buffing Russian vehicles because they feel like it would happen or they feel like those upgrades take place is just mind-boggling
I agree, but the sound system can be abused pretty easily by turning off your own sound and increasing the sound of other tanks. I dont think sound would help much. I would also give the later variants M829A3 and DU hull armor. Russia would suffer like the US is right now, but Germany and Sweden would have a proper competitor to contest their dominance that Russia will never really provide.
First time seeing your video. I'm impressed by how well your points were made. Subbed. I'm a US and Germany main. Playing Abrams feels like a straight up downgrade coming from a Leopard. A reload buff is a nice touch (which makes sense, since there is so much space within that turret). But Abrams desperately needs it's protection. When I'm playing against those tanks I always consider them an easy snack, whether I'm in Leopard or a T72. Off topic: I'm desperately waiting on IR AA buffs and for Gaijin to make helicopters lockable by those weapons. In Ukraine helicopters don't go closer than around 10km to the frontline, scared of MANPADS, in WT you can't lock a heli that is 2km away from you.
a lot of the upgrade made to the Abrams where not defensive in nature... a lot them were upgrades to thermal, Commander and Gunner NVDand Thermal optics, a CROWS nest or (Common Remotely Operated Weapon Station), upgrades to the engine to make the GAS TURBINE more efficient as well as replacing lines and lines of wiring from old style wiring to Fiber optic wiring to make the vehicle lighter in nature and which would allow for less wiring to be used...They also recieved upgrade packages to internal equipment and software, as well as IFF and GPS enhanced capabilities. As for armor, as far as i can remember and this is coming from a Marine corp tanker who served on the M1A1 tanks in the Marine Corp's inventory before the retired all of their heavy tanks said this.... ," The Marine Corp does not operate any known variant of the Abrams with DU inserts, the Army does and its only prevalent on M1A2 models." So we can at least assume that M1A2, SEP, and SEPV2 could at least have DU inserts into the armor package, as for the M1A1's most likely there was one as a Demonstrator for the Marine Corp but they opted out to reduce costs and maintenance.
None of the M1A1 models had DU armor. There was an improved armor M1A1 model (i think M1A1 AIM and SA) that increased its effectiveness above regular M1A1 level but that didn't have any DU as it was aimed for export. M1A2 has DU in turret front alone and M1A2 SEPV1 AND V2 have them in both hull and turret front.
@@Brzzzyexe Again as i said in other comments Army made an amendment to that license around 2006 removing that limitation of DU usage and explicitly stating DU will be now used in all production abrams hulls and turrets. Gaijin and redeffect (although redeffect is at best a meh source) ignores this.
Funnily enough. There are reports of the Abrams' turret ring being hit with the only death being the gunner, whom I believe was struck directly by the sabot in an incident of friendly fire. It's also laughable that m829a2 still cant go through spots that are proof against m829a1. As far as the game is concerned, it's the same round. But when US mains say anything, it's "Oh but M829a2 is the second best dart in the game" Yeah, yet the front of Russian vehicles are still bouncing it when they shouldn't be.
Gaijin increases the weight, doesn't add armor, decides they should have worse mobility with evidence to the contrary, and wonders why the tanks underperform. They do this constantly with US tanks like the M41A1, having the turret traverse speed of the M41 despite having an upgraded traverse speed because one guy misread documents and submitted a bug report that was immediately corrected, but Gaijin still changed it.
Speaking of shells, the fact that Gaijin said they believe m829a3 offers no advantage over m829a2, and would do next to nothing against Kontakt 5 just shows they just make up numbers they like. The round was specifically made to be more effective against Kontakt 5 with its steel tip, and it’s been shown to work. Also Gaijin saying it wouldn’t have any better penetration against composite is also completely made up. There’s a noticeable length increase between a3 and a2, and that alone would give it better penetration.
If they went with IRL examples most of the top tier Russian tanks would lose a lot of that durability they have in game. Quite a few of them have been destroyed in combat in the past year or so. Compare that to the Abrams M-1 series of tanks most of the destruction has come from IEDs. I am sure the US military would not be fielding a tank with the weaknesses as shown in the game. I do remember seeing a M1A1 at Ft. Sill they used to test protection against Artillery back in the late '80's.
I am not going to say that russia tech tree isnt biased, but when was the last time abrams seen a real threat like apfsds in live combat? From what i gather abrams fought against sand gypsies with rpg's and IED"s, not against major power with heavy tanks, thats why TUSK exists, they're literally armor packages to protect sides from RPG rounds
1991, even if the Iraqis were using lesser rounds. Shooting center of mass would hit the "weakspot" we all know as the turret ring. Not a single Abrams was lost to a shot like that@@stealthyfuck3217
The point being that everyone knows the combat capabilities of Russian tanks and they are not the greatest. NATO tanks are a wildcard since they have not had much real world combat experience. The NATO tanks were designed to be effective against the Russian tanks and the extra weight can be explained as extra protection from MANPAD anti-tank weapons and IEDs. I really don't think WT should have advanced past the early 60's just to avoid these problems.
God I can't wait for the storm when and if they add the V3 the only way people won't whine is if it gets trophy as an add on because there is very little difference between the V2 and V3 it's mostly internal there is an armor "upgrade" but the change is unknown
By no means am I an EXCELLENT player. But I think the Abrams is still objectively a BAD tank in game. My reasoning? I've been playing since 2015, and I have Germany and Japan at top tier too. Germany was my first so, my stats are pretty bad on my leopards, but once I learnt how to play, they were amazing tanks. And as for Japan, the Type 10 and 90 series of MBT have the most positive K/Ds. By a fair margin, too. Whenever I play an Abrams, it feels slower, bigger, not much better protection, and STILL a slower reload than my Type 10s and 90s. Sure, it has a few more degrees of gun depression, but the hydraulic suspension on the JPN MBTs usually makes up for it, if you're playing them correctly. The Abrams NEEDS an armor buff. When a 70, almost 80 ton tank is getting one-shotted just as much, usually MORE often than a 44-ton tank, there are issues.
The real problem is realism. Gaijin is never clear on how much realism they want. I thibk they should give the Abrams M1A2s a spall liner because these tanks aren't being used the same way as in real life. The abrams is very heavy, this is why irl it has no spall liners but also has no need. The US army always expects to fire first or to have the airforce destroy ground targets. Giving spall liners would just make all of these tanks rough equals.
I dont get how spall liners for frontal armor works to reduce spall... Composite armors are basically layered spall liners yet addinga "spall liner" magically reduces spall
Gaijin seeing proof regarding DU armor in Abrams tanks: There's not enough evidence, not happening. Gaijin basing the T-90M stats on a sales pitch video for potential buyers: Everything seems to be legit here!
If they were to take T-90M characteristics out of thin air, they would add -15 kph of reverse speed to it. It is alleged, there are video proof, but there are no solid documents that can prove it, so they aren't adding it. So in game T-80BVM is better as of now. Abrams with its mobility and 5 second reload is now better than any Russian MBT anyway. So what is your problem?
@@Янус_Ырт the problem is gaijin cherry picking what sources to use and when to use them. Gaijin has added vehicles and features based off far less documentation than what’s been provided on the DU armor, M829A3 round, etc. It’s an issue of inconsistency, which to all appears as bias.
The T-90M in game is actually based on the T-90A… They had an opportunity to buff its armor, and reverse speed drastically. But guess what? There is no hard concrete proof a production T-90M can do 15 kmh in reverse, no data on the improved there array, or hull array if it is upgraded at all besides the Relikt. The only improvements the T-90M has over the A is the ERA, spall liner (which won’t be guaranteed to save you lol), and gun handling… It’s fine to be upset with the state of the game, but don’t make things up. It weakens your side of the fence 9/10 in the long run, then gaijin will stop listening, and no one will take you seriously at all.
@@BARelement that's exactly my point - Gaijin could, but didn't, because no hard evidence, whilst author of original comment claims that T-90M parameters were taken out of thin air
I’m trying to figure out how the armor is the same comparing m1a1 to m1a2 but yet some how gains 3 tons?….. because the armor irl is more it’s upgraded….. just classified gayjin
I honestly dont even care for realism in top tier of wt, most of these numbers on the newest tanks are made up. I would just like them to sacriface some realism for balance and gameplay reasons.
I will not play warthunder again till they fix the abrams.... i now have 200 plus flight hours in the f16c on dcs. having much more fun on at for now. A good break from that mentally exhausting game is nice.
I've slowly stopped playing it, tired of the grind, I went back to DCS and it was a really good choice, I mainly fly the Ka-50 in DCS and it's so much fun
Personally i think gaijin should just leave their "primary non russian (for non russian tanks) sources that give me exact protection of the vehicle or bust" approach. This will obviously benefit Russians the most as they are the ones that always shout to the whole world that their new shitbox is just older shitbox but with a new protection tile installed. Not to mention they just use simple RHA as armor which is infinitely easier to model and estimate than NERA. Gaijin needs to start accepting secondary sources for obvious things like Abrams having DU armor in the hull.
Yep. Red effect’s video in a nutshell: - they don’t have crew spall liners - the M829A3 would most certainly make a difference if modeled correctly - DU armor in the hull exists in 5 tanks at training facilities. The hull armor is totally classified
@@christopherchartier3017Also that the Sep V3 is the first production Abrams said by reliable sources to have an “upgraded hull” that if which “we don’t even know is DU, or not”. Which makes this more confusing is the fact the serial numbers which indicated Uranium (U), are now replaced with “M”.
It's true that the Abrams don't have fiber spall liners like the Leopards. Instead, it does have anti-spall layers integral to the armor. Redeffect, and Gaijin seem to not realize that an integral system can exist.
Unpopular opinion but it's a great way to balance and fix top tier and the game in general. Instead of haveing weird battle rating systems, they need to stick to hard numbers like 10.0 and 11.0 ect no 10.3, 10.7 ect wich will stop the uptier of haveing one 10.7 in a full 10.3 game, it would just be a 10.0 and 11.0 relieving stress on the mm. To do this rework and balance the tanks for GAMEPLAY not so much realism. You can keep realistic characteristics and features but tweak them to make a vehicle unique for its br. For example russian tanks, have high mobility, good armor and have a low profile, yet slow reverse, no gun depression. That's the theme. Just make it so that it's close to realistic yet has a balance to fit the new hard br. If all 11.7(12.0) features a small liner, give the other a small liner for gameplay balance, while keeping the main characteristics of a vehicle nation similar to traditional playstyles, ie some being able to perform better at range, some being able to perform better closer ect. I know that some people want this to be as realistic as possible but people have to remember it's a game, you can make it pretty realistic but balance it to improve the overall quality of the GAME, and in turn extend the life of the game even further
I always hate the implementation of modern technologies very iffie. Would prefer it not being implemented at all, just stick to what we know and maybe make 1 vehcalce for each faction that is evaluated for balance (each having an aspect to focus) and let player choose in what to focus. And concidering Merican will cry to have their Abram, just have a diferent mode for incomplete or live it to models. Now my reasons for it: 1- like expose, incloplete information AND information given by official who most likly exagerate them, and where test at 100% maintenance and only top marks stages. 2- Economic factors are ignore, this can be seen even today, russia had to fill up their tank with cheap termos because it coudnt aford more, they still work and how older tanks have basicly become arrillery. So aspect like material needed to produce arent accounted for, thus favouring heavily any tank who has "top of the line" as any cost of profuction, repair, training arent really ajusted and varied during states of the ecnomoy, i already doubted the ammo and fuel cost. 3- the issue with western vehacles, speaken out on the video, now why is that so? And the reason is clear: -Over use of funds -Corruption -Useless tech This is a byproduct of modern defens department being in bed with the weapones producer, time and time again (even before but more so eviently now) producers will expend exorbitants amount of money in little upgrades, useless changes and even just drcalre a whole research trash and fiscar it, sometimes even getting a reinvestment for the loss.
ngl but having more pen or armor definitely isn't goanna change shit for players if they keep relying on that instead of the pure mobility. + You are pretty much faster in every way + Your turret armor quite often bounces anything but the 292's round (especially when slightly angling it when noticing the enemy is targeting Your gun barrel or Breech) + Your engine becomes near silent beyond 100m (Which means You're the Sneakiest MBT of the Modern tanks) - Everybody knows where to shoot it. - You absolutely can't rely on Your teammates. - Sniping at long range often results in some bastard shooting through the turret ring regardless of You being hull down or not. Let Me know if I missed some points, I'd like to know more
I will just spam CAS with the F16C more if they don’t fix the Abrams. If the fucking A3 isn’t added the pave way on top of peoples heads will do the trick.
Gaijin enjoys gaslighting. They’ll sit there and tell you that there’s not enough evidence etc to add something to a vehicle. Or DU was only added into the hull of a few Abrams so we can’t add it, meanwhile they’re plenty comfortable adding many vehicles that have never seen active duty. Warthunder loves it’s prototypes and doesn’t hold those vehicles to the same standard.
Somehow Abrams and other 2 MBT's from the big 3 nations are at the same BR as objectively worse tanks and still suffer The big 3 have pretty much the same mobility, better shells, better armor, slightly worse reload, and still get worse win rates than smaller nations like UK, Japan, Italy, France (for now at least, now Italy and France have tanks from the big 3)
Plz we all know why its the way it its- If western vehicles perform better than russian ones, developers gonna have to work remote. From siberian forest. In gulag camp....
What are hellfire missiles like for the apaches now? Just got back into wt after a year and these missile was dogshit before. Couldnt take out other helis with them, bushes/tress use to ruin there aim. They still.just as bad?
cant a agree more i researched down the 105 abrams and gor one of the 120 abrams and ones i got that m1a1 i stopped play the americans and played my swedish strv122 much more fun too play sweden then usa imo at to tier
My dude's keep in mind its a game and the Tank is not supposed to be 1:1 like the real life BECAUSE ITS STILL IN USE TODAY! To favour your own demand of a good MBT Gaijin would have to ask the US about the Tank and its functions to make a realistic in game model work. For the DU armor you know they would have to do it properly then just slap it on as "Spall liner" for the Turret Even if it gets the DU in the Turret,you still have by design of the Abrams series the Neck shot that really is a massive weak spot,just like the T-Series of Tanks From someone using both the Soviet and UK tanks I will say the Abrams is really good especially since its 5s reload that can out reload almost every Tank. It really is a good tank for what its fighting,but sadly its design not just to engage tanks and survive them,but mostly RPG's that are the only biggest issue in a war.
it doesnt change the fact Gaijin cherrypicks who and what to use as a source. or who and what receives buffs and nerfs. By your own statement it being a videogames gives more creedence to adding the DU in the hull and making up a value anyway
@@SteelxWolf Its you who play's the game and decides what and when to play a nation There are countless Abrams games as well as GHPC if you want to experience the full Abrams Gaijin is making the game they way and decide when or where to add stuff They need to satisfy EVERYONE not just you. I could even make the Abrams work with that 5 sec reload,and I still will complain about skill rather then the Tank been "Realistic" You (I assume US Main) have others that want they tanks realistic,that wont and will not be approved of gaijin especially since the game is now on the Watch list of the US National Security,one small mistake,one added classified mistake and the Game is blocked in the US for good. Understand?? Its not just of "Oh my Abrams should have this and that and should tank 50 rounds to the neck" yea,will it be worth it when the game gets blocked in the US and all of your money and effort in vain?? Keep it up and we will see,keep complaining and not training,and you will loose what you fight for the most.
About spall liners in the Abrams vs other tanks. The Abrams costs around 10$ million, while the leopard 2 costs about 6$ million. The US has spends more on its military than the next 10 nations on that list combined. But you think the Us suddenly cheats out when it comes to spall liners? What an absolutely ridiculous notion. You have to throw all logic out the window to think that. As for spall liners, do you think the country with the highest military budget in the world wouldn’t instal spall liners in their MBT that already has depleted Uranium armor? Either they work and the Abrams has it, or it didn’t work or was deemed unnecessary and the Abram s doesn’t have it. Do you think a post Cold War broke Russia can afford spall liners when. The US can’t? Do you think Germany, with 1/100th the military budget of the US can afford spall liners, when the Us can’t? It’s even funnier when you factor in that the US went with the American Abrams, instead of the German Leopard 2 as their MBT because the Abrams was found to have higher survivability.
You've got some factual mistakes, though, they don't make that much sense. M1A1 HC doesn't has M829A2, only A1. (there was something else, but I forgot) M1A1 AIM might not be the best Abrams, but definitely not the worst. There isn't that much difference between M829A1 and KE-W, but Gen 2 thermals for AIM definitely is a buff. Gen 1 thermals are so fucking blurry it makes actual aiming hard enough and goes well for general target recognition, while Gen 2 thermals make aiming for weakspots at range comfortable. On top of that I'd tell that there two 'families' of Abrams tanks: first one is earlier lighter ones (M1, IPM1, M1A1, KVT) and later heavies (M1A1 HC and others). And once you've got to the point where Abrams got fat enough and got over 60 tons any more weight doesn't feels at all. I've got more than 3000 battles in Abrams tanks and I can tell you that these heavy M1s don't really vary one to another in terms of mobility. But the advantages of going on and on are clear: with M1A2 you get the CITV and M829A2, with SEP V1 you getting Gen 2 thermals. And only then with SEP V2 all you get is some bad-ass looking tank but on practice nothing else but extra weight.
US military - Enemy call it whispering death!
Gaijin- So its louder than a F15 at full after burner !
you really can't expect a gas turbine engine to be quiet, but perhaps gaijing did go over with how loaod they are rn in game
@@somerandometanker3455 It's widely known and agreed that the Abrams Turbine engine is quieter than other conventional power plants . It was a factor in the US militaries choice of power pack ( and the fact the other power pack never achieved its goals ) .
@@somerandometanker3455high frequency sound travels less distance than low frequency, or at least becomes less audible. The problem is that gaijin either can't or doesn't model that because games are difficult when it comes to that
My first experience with the M1 was when one snuck up on me at Graff during Reforger 82.
The reason it's so loud in the game is because the sounds IRL is actually incredibly loud, it just travels less distance and is more directional.
If we don’t get spall liners we should get Crewman PPE. Modern tank crews are equipped with Kevlar vests and ballistic helmets that could improve survivability. PPE is already available in most Helicopters.
I find it laughable that the weight increases constantly, for no reason. Even though its obviously armor
Heavy air
You guys are blind apparently
ok then whats the reason for the added weight?@@williewilson2250
@@williewilson2250 ?
@@Fazbear-qy8mo what
It’s the same with the t80b. Some were tested with thermals and that was already enough for gaijin to add it.
I’m not aware of any t-80b’s that were given thermals, and no t-80u’s ever had thermals. Even t-80bv’s used today don’t have thermals and it took the t-80u(m) to finally get them. Gaijin just added them because they wanted more Russian tanks to have them.
Well the t80 also has shittier armor than the 9.3 t72
@@beetlusjuicus4013 and the base M1 still doesn’t have the correct ammo to be able to pen the T-72’s front plate. If you’re saying they added thermals for “balance” it’s an inconsistent stance at best.
@@devendoffing7004the base m1 never was able to pen the front and late of the T72A and the T80b, this is what caused nato to upsize to the 120mm gun which inversely caused the soviets to change construction methods of the T72B and T80U, these changes pretty much brought the Soviet armor values up to par, so in this way Soviet tanks especially in 9.0 are unrealistic because a vehicle like a striker can pop the front plate, so while the t80b having thermals is unrealistic so is nato shell performance and Soviet armor numbers
@@beetlusjuicus4013 the M60's 105 firing m833 will go through the front plate of an T72M/M1 this is wel known
Based on my limited experience at 11.3, my turret ring is apparently bigger than my entire tank
Swear I tank more damage on og M1 Abrams playing at 11.7 than I do with M1A1 AIM with supposedly better armor
When you realize the base M1A1 can apply ARAT era but gaijin does not give it what it should have, same applies to the M1A1 AIM also capable to use ARAT ERA.
almost all abrams models can equip the TUSK kit but gaijin does not care (despite most soviet tanks getting era)
@@jerbyjerboa what a biased shitcompany, i mean check out that they get russian jet fighters with R-73 but no AIM-9X for americans in comparison whattaheck is that.
So you guys complain about magical weight and now you want to exacerbate the problem lmao
@@williewilson2250 i mean if you want to add weight, youd at least want to add weight that matters or makes a difference. magically gaining weight but no effectiveness is what the video pointed out
@@PerciusLive well for how useless ERA for western tanks is atm, why would anyone want to put it on the m1a1 which is already heavy enough for how weak it's armor is at 11.0?
One big thing which could help the Abrams at top tier could be to add electronic warfare to the game. TUSK equipped M1s have a CREW system which jams out radio signals within a couple hundred meters. Now that there are drones in the game, that's significant because you can't fly a drone near an M1. If you're close, you also can't use cell phone or a radio unless your fills match.
The difficulty putting it in would be that the range is not publicly available, but everything in game is closer than IRL anyway, and commo in game is abstract, so treating it more as a game mechanic and less as hard data should be fine.
The way it could work would be that within a radius of the CREW system, enemy drones don't work, and an enemy within that radius can't call for arty, spot targets, or set squad markers, nor see spotted targets or map markers from other players. Within the EM bubble coms are down. US CREW systems leave allied frequencies open, so it would have no effect on allies. IRL the range is very short, so in game 50-100m would approximate it.
IRL the system was intended to stop remote detonated IEDs, and is considered too short range for other purposes, but it does disable all radio and at the distances in War Thunder where drones fly right over you and enemies hide around the corner, it would make a difference.
In the real world, the US had Warlock or Duke CREW systems on almost every deployed combat vehicle by 2007, and it's part of the TUSK and BUSK packages on Abrams and Bradley. I've never seen it on a vehicle stateside, and I'm not positive which vehicles other than the M1 might have it. I know the Brits put the same or similar systems on some of their vehicles, but not sure if it was every single vehicle like the US.
This would be effective against commercial drones. Most FPVs you see in Ukraine use modified bandwidths so EW systems dont work consistently.
I think this would be absolutely busted, maybe if it was some kind of ability like arty or one time use feature because if it were active 24/7 you would have to make it extremely niche like an aps system on t-90a in terms of usefulness. Maybe if you needed to spot a target and jam them, similar to a scouting mechanic but instead of them being spotted on the map they would be jammed for a short period of time (even then I think it would be extremely powerful)
I don't think that abrams struggles that much to begin with, especially after a reload buff it's a complete menace. The biggest buff an abrams can get is make the engine noises quieter because I can hear it coming from across the map.
ECM would be way too complicated for a 40gb Russian game.
if you wanna talk about adding that, then why dont they make the thermal camo on the chally 2 tes/oes actually work?
@@Mr_Sakul Aren't the Abrams still doing the worst at top tier? I feel that if they don't increase the armor or give spall liners like on other tanks, having it block out drones should heavily even the playing field
The spall-liner thing is just stupid. It's old tech basically nearly every main battle tank after the introduction of HESH rounds has it, even some vehicles prior to this. They are carrying on like this is cutting edge secret stuff.
They have fear of making the US tech three realistic both in land and air
its funny because as far as i know the challenger 2 oes gets it but no abrams gets it
The abrams never had a spall liner…
@@jerbyjerboabc abrams dont have spall liners
@@acedogboy8421 I agree the Abrams doesn’t have spall liner but gaijins excuse to not upgrade the armor is just dumb since they already guessed on other tanks armor (Russia) and made them super hard to pen
M1IP bounces a lot more shells than the SEP V2 at 12.0 with the same armor stats. Something fishy going on
It don’t. In game it says it has the same turret armor values in the X-ray view but in reality the M1IP(and M1A1) turret is much weaker.
The M1A2 and the up armored 11.3 M1A1s can stop top tier rounds such as DM53, 3BM60, etc while the M1IP cannot.
@Boris_The_Turtle Yes it does. Try it in game. Thats the point of my comment. Something is clearly bugged if in game it bounces more than the A2
@@niixodus I do not think it is a fair comparison, especially considering it is based on anecdotal experience. One is at a lower battle rating than the other. The only way to really test it is versus the same shells.
@@Boris_The_Turtle I was saying it bounces more in at 12.0 than the sep
@@niixodus There really isn't any other way to properly compare them other than testing it properly in-game or protection analysis. Its probably happenstance.
I've been thinking for a while that instead of another major update, Gaijin should just release a "major bugfix". Basically all that would entail is going through all known bugs and fixing them, as well as taking a look at vehicles that are missing features. I don't have them, but I've heard from a lot of players who do but the Ariete, Leclerc, and Merkava apparently are missing a lot of features that other nations tanks are getting, or just have worse stats than they should have. Gaijin in my opinion is adding too much shit without going back and fixing any of the old neglected stuff.
Throw in a major map rework because lets face it most of them are complete trash and a hitbox and damage registration tweak (Im really sick and tired of turret rings and tracks and wooden poles on some maps eating my rounds for no reason).
They should have a 2nd dev team like Stellaris has. They’re known as the Custodian team and all they do is fix bugs and bring old content up to the new standards
Gajin thinks the country with the largest military budget in the world, hasn’t improved the armor of their main battle tank since 1988.
As for spall liners, do you think the country with the highest military budget in the world wouldn’t instal spall liners in their MBT that already has depleted Uranium armor? Either they work and the Abrams has it, or it didn’t work or was deemed unnecessary and the Abram s doesn’t have it. Do you think a post Cold War broke Russia can afford spall liners when. The US can’t? Do you think Germany, with 1/100th the military budget of the US can afford spall liners, when the Us can’t? It’s even funnier when you factor in that the US went with the American Abrams, instead of the German Leopard 2 as their MBT because the Abrams was found to have higher survivability.
You literally have to throw all logic out the window, to think the Abrams isn’t the best MBT in the world, and is woefully underpowered in games
The Abrams costs around 10$ million, while the leopard 2 costs about 6$ million. The US has spends more on its military than the next 10 nations on that list combined. But you think the Us suddenly cheats out when it comes to spall liners? What an absolutely ridiculous notion. You have to throw all logic out the window to think that.
gaijin uses propaganda for russian specs and normal info for us specs
They never out spall liners in their tanks sooo
@@acedogboy8421
Is that subjectivity obvious to you?
The country who spends more than the next 10 militaries on the list, would cheap out and not put spall liners on their tanks?
You think the US would want to save that couple thousand dollars inbred spall liners on the Abrams?
@@acedogboy8421 why would a US tank have spall liners when the armor is Depleted Uranium?
Spall liners are for steel armor, as a backup if it’s penetrated.
Depleted Uranium armor on an Abrams is not meant to be penetrated by any modern tank foe of the United States.
@@fudalefu1 fucking what? For one no abrams has had a DU hull untill sep v3. 2 in that logic no t90m or t14 needs a spall liner bc they probably cant be penetrated. What fucking whack logic is that?
Pretty good video, but some small misconceptions.
The current 11.0 Abrams: M1a1 and IPM1 were not "Buffed" they were nerfed from their original 10.3 br, this happened when the IPM1 was given M900 and stomped the MM for a few months before the BR changes made it 10.7. After that 10.3 america was still way to strong in gaijins eyes so they wanted to nuke the whole line up by making the M1A1 higher br(10.7). Which for a while was fine until yet again the M1A1 and IP were stomping that 10.7 bracket for months so gaijin "buffed" them again to 11.0 but this time the M1A1 was now way to high to justify its M829 shell so it was given A1 to compensate. These were not "buffs" they were moved up in BR and given a shell so it was not DOA. This happens all the time in videos like these were a youtuber would say that a tank was buffed when it was in fact not and just given better ammo or some other buff to compensate for its BR increase. The best iterations of these tanks were at the lower BRs not the state they are currently in.
As for what you said about why the abrams are struggling its really not complicated. They are just terrible tanks, the other major nations have tanks like the 2a5/6/7 or bvm ect.... That all pretty much have enough armor to cover for their in your own words "less skilled on average players" which in this case means that the abrams never will save a bad player from making a mistake like the BVM or leopards do. This means that on average your teams will instantly fold because they will not be able to out "luck" the enemy team. This on top of the fact that america has been given the most amount of top tier premium and reward vehicles in the game. This means that a majority of your teams will be these complete trash reward and premium players who have 0 line up and will 100% 1 death leave most battles. This is on top of another phenomenon where russian and US teams seem to spawn a lot of IFV type vehicles that are completely worthless at top brs which only exacerbates the issues mentioned earlier.
In summary this isnt an issue that can be fixed with 1-2 small changes, it would take a complete overhaul of the armor and other vehicles of the top tier american line up to make them even remotely competitive with their german and russian counterparts. Mainly the ADATS needs to not be a TD and needs to go back to the 110 SPAA spawn cost for starters. This goes for the UK as well, having a low cost SPAA is crucial for players who are bad or had a bad game to support the team and try to get back into a tank. The fact that the US's only viable spaa is 300+ sp on a second spawn and almost 500 on a third is utterly insane, and contributes to the seemingly catastrophic collapses that american teams seems to have in most top tier games. Other wise i agree with most of the changes you said, and 100% agree that changes need to be made on the basis of gameplay not realism.
Bro, have you ever played USA? lolz
TALK ABOUT MISCONCEPTIONS!
yes thousands of games over the past 5 years.@@rogeryoung9934
Lets not forget the BVM was added way too early. That tank is so noob friendly (on top of all the volumetric changes to shells and armor leading to it eating shots. OR the lowered detonation chance on par with the Leclrec which has a blowout rack...) it was able to stomp last gen M1A1s for a very long time.
Also the M1IP was indeed buffed. BR shift is not always the sign of a nerf. M1IP running with M774 forever sucked, the reload made up for the lack of damage. M833 was added too late to actually lol pen anything. M900 finally brought it to its real service standard giving it the ability to handle lesser targets but still relied on the reload to pinpoint hit weak spots. The added pen of M900 made weak spot shooting MORE consistent as well. There is no argument that the M1IP was NOT somehow buffed multiple times. The M1A1 was indeed buffed to compensate for its new BR. and shell. The M1A1 ate T64Bs and T80Bs for breakfast even with M829. Also BR shifts alleviated some of the compression 9.7-10.7 experienced. Now of course we have under tiered 2S38s running around but that's a topic for a different day.
He used the term "buffed" correctly. The M1IP was always an 11.0 tank, it was simply added too early and in a "nerfed" state.
They didn't got nerfed..It's called BR Decompression. M1A1 was too powerful for 10.3
@@SteelxWolfit's an indirect nerf to the ipm1 and m1a1 (except this one is decent but pointless because the ipm1 is better than it) because now you're simply nullifying it's armor in exchange for a shell that still adds nothing for you. You still need to aim for the exact same weak spots and you're fighting better armor. It's a glass cannon that could've stayed where it was
Welcome to the Ariete treatment Abrams
As an italy main I welcome the Americans to our state of neglect.
Isn’t the Ariete actually one of the worst NATO MBTs IRL? Only really things like the Arjun beat it at being “worse”.
@@BARelement It is, but gaijin has literally ignored bug reports that state the ariete has composite armour in the hull and the turret, which is stated on the manufacturer's website to be there. It is also missing small liners currently but that may be fixed soon.
@@BARelement this was due to an American quote but it was aimed at the majour nations of the Nato, so being worse that Leopards, Leclercs and Abrams's is not really telling things, it's one of the least armored but the Italian government when they build the WAR armor kit said that with that it's on par with other Nato tanks, at the time Germany used Leopards 2A6, some put the Armor a little less under the Leopards 2A5 in the turret, the UFP should be better too, remember the WAR kit weighs 6 tonns, the electronic sistems are really something in it, Leonardo is a master when it comes to them, the new C2 Ariete now gets upgraded electronics all from the B2 Centauro, so all cutting edge technologies, some of the best in the world, you need to observe that Italy has a really similar strategy to Japan when it comes to armored vehicles
@@Corxed spall liners come next update, guaranteed by Gaijin, also the fact that the last bug report on the Ariete armor and the fact that they wait for the implementation of the spall liner(becouse it's quite important for the balance of top tier) tells me that they may be reworking finally the armor to be more similar to the IRL counterpart, but it's just could be copium on my part
I still don't understand how some people still deny the existence of any favoritism towards Russia in War Thunder. They probably benefit from it 😅
It’s kind of a Russia main vs US main thing and then the other countries 3rd party the convo with “well our tanks have always been trash so why’s it a problem that your’s is now”
They are benefiting from it because there is a large portion of the player base that playes whats OP, and they have settled into russia, and they as well as tankies don't want to lose that.
@@OkamiiSenpai Bruh, have you seen the stats? USSR at top tier has the SECOND worse win rate, every other nation is doing just fine.
You ameritards are just awful quitters that whine a lot when you can't spawn CAS.
Cry harder.
What bothers me is, why not make the US tree stronger so its more fun to play matches against them? How is it fun to be in the enemy spawn inside 4 minutes and barely anyone gets a kill?
@@rogeryoung9934Because the people enjoying their artificially buffed tanks don't want fair they want fun and fun to them is a curb stomp.
This tank shouldn't be called M1A2 . It be renamed to M1A2 WT, it's what gajin believed it to be, a blatant insult to a legendary vehicle.
The best thing is, Gaijin says that the Torsion bars of the Abrams couldn't handle the weight. Which they added anyways. And saying that the numbers of vehicles fitted with Du armor is something to consider is bullshit, the T-80B never had thermals, except for one or maybe a few prototypes.
It's very simple: Russia likes to publicize characteristics advertising a higher capability than reality (either cause they are not good enough or do not perform in real scenarios due to lack of maintenance for example) NATO countries, especially USA is more secretive and likes to advertize lower values than the actual full capabilities ( for example they might say a dart can penetrate 650mm even though it showed 700+ in certain scenarios just to guarantee the 650 in all cases and also negate enemies preparation (Russia padding armor to resist 650 but then losing cause the dart pens 700, just a fictional example) this makes Gaijin use public information, Russia being propaganda numbers and USA/NATO being standard specs (playing it down or on par with real performance). this skews the all game balance in all modes. the effects of propaganda numbers made real and effective at all times with pristine vehicles with no maintenance variable is commonly called Russian Bias.
100% you nailed it with the way the US and Russia publicize their data.
A really good real world example would be the MiG-25 which was said to be this incredible plane that could do XYZ better than any US jet. The US believing that info went and created the F-15 to meet or exceed the info they had on the MiG-25.
Later on a MiG-25 pilot defected taking his plane with him and the US discovered all the info they had on it was bullshit and the F-15 was leagues better and easily, imo, the best fighter of the Cold War.
Pretty much, yeah.
@@DefaultProphet даже в Ираке вас сбивали советские самолеты. В ИРАКЕ.
Это как если человек, которому переломали каждую косточку, сможет выбить зубы обидчику. Если бы систему ПВО им сделал Союз, коалиция прожила бы гораздо более тяжелую жизнь там, где им не место.
@@HoBoeBpeM9l You forgot to Google translate Vatnik
One of the things you didn't touch on was Gaijin's stance on M829A3. What's your opinion on their assessment?
I don't know how they determined M829A3 wouldn't increase performance against common enemies like the T-80 BVM and T-90M given it was explicitly designed to counter the heavy ERA of the tanks.
-
If implemented in such a way that it significantly reduced the efficiency of Kontakt 5 and Relikt (an ability DM53 should also have) it would certainly help the win rate although the new Leo 2s with spall liners would likely still be better than the Abrams
@semicooperative7188 because gaijin believes russian ERA is infallible
@@OkamiiSenpai even kontakt 1
@@semicooperative7188even the designers of K1 and Relict admitted it works against their ERA…
@@semicooperative7188A3 was designed against the Kontakt-5, not Relikt.
As US discovered that their sabot's (A1) couldn't penetrate the newer series of tanks with integrated ERA (aka Kontakt-5), they developed 2 new sabots, M829A2 and A3. M829A2 was more of a brute force solution to the problem with increasing the rod's length and raw performance (and was not reliable), while A3 also adds a steel tip that can be disintegrated from the rod easily and quickly when in touch with the ERA plates, so the ERA doesn't adjust the direction of the sabot (or damage the integrity of it).
But Relikt works in a different way than the Kontakt-5, it cant be defeated by a single steel tip.
DM-53 also has the "Anti-ERA" tip, similar to M829A3, thus is able to penetrate tanks with Kontakt-5 while DM-43 can't, and M829A2 sometimes is able to penetrate them while A1 clearly can't.
M829A3 and DM-53 renders the Kontakt-5 useless, not Relikt
Slowly... but surely... US mains start to feel more like OG Ger mains with the "Russian bias" claims all the way in 2014
Sad to see the Abrams on its current state, and its absolutly retarded how overtuned is the T90A vs real life but its funny and ironic to see.
Every Russian tank is obviously overtuned
@@Optimusprime56241yeah but leopards still stomp them like bugs
@@SeductiveWalrus lmao no, not in this game they don’t
@@Optimusprime56241 umm actually yeah they do, both sweden and germany have better tanks than russia right now
@@SeductiveWalrus they’re not better than t80bvm/t90m so no
I’m a couple days away from unlocking the m1 and I’m not nearly as excited as I thought I’d be when I started the tech tree
American Light Tank and IFV is better, those vehicle get your job done very well.
@@JMLuu. what? Not at all, Bradleys suck, slower in every way to Russian BMP-2M and Puma, HSTV-L still doesn't have it's proper shell penetration and proxy round with IRST when similar Russian vehicle, 2S38 is at 1.3 BR lower yet still have all these with 3x fire rate and 10x the ammo reserve. And also no proper SPAA at top tier really sucks.
Only thing attractive about USA is the F-16 as CAS but that is getting old now with Su-25SM3, Gripen, F-16AM additons.
10.3 lineup is actually not bad, get the M1 Abrams and LAV-AD and you will have fun, I don't recommend playing USA past that BR.
@@INeatFreak lmao I quit the game shortly after I hit like 11.3 I couldn’t take it anymore haven’t played in like 5 months
@@jalenwilliams8622 you did yourself a favor, don't comeback to this game, everything is still shit.
Gajin's logic only applies to Russia that's why no new round or DU armor for the new sep what a joke
That was a very productive contribution to the conversation, thanks.
as a french main I just want gaijin to bring the Leclerc's reload back to 5 seconds and buff the armor acoding to the sweds live round test values
Been grinding France lately. They have some great vehicles, but the snail seems afraid French mains are too good lol
holy fk watching that 2s38 tank that round it hurt my soul... gajin surely know how to balance their game
I think trying to make this game as close to the real life vehicles is what's causing a lot of these problems also the devs are inconsistent with the prerequisites of x or y being added. Their rationale of not adding DU for the Abrams is fine only if they did the same for other trees like the 2s38 shouldn't be in if they were consistent. But No the abrams doesn't have a spall liner could it get one ingame sure for fairness
Yes! This is what I’m talking about. This is just a fucking game, and the game is supposed to balance and competitive. Now the win rate of U.S top tier is so bad so it should be make to balance. But gaijjn said there is no source to prove the point of Abrams armor. Is this a game or something else have to be source so they can balance things
Finally gets first Abrams looks at top tier Russian tank's becoming even stronger
12:30 the aim has better turret armor which stops 3bm60 unlike the m1a1 which can only stop 3bm42 (only on the left side of the turret) it's a copy paste hc without the soft kill and a marginally worse round. so you're quite a bit more effective hull down because the m1a1, still against a bvm or even a t-80u that have really 2-3 places you can shoot them while they can pretty much look at your entire tank and pen you makes it almost unplayable
Still get penned in my turret cheeks by chemical and 460mm SABOT
@@crimzonempire4677chemical protection on the cheeks of every Abrams is 800 minimum
tbh gaijin could have just came up with some random amount of increased protection say like 100mm of extra protection and call it DU armor for the hull, i would be completely fine with that, because the hull armor of the abrams stops around 370mm of pen from kinetic shells, having that extra 100mm or more would be awesome of course it just being an extra 100mm of effective thickness would mean its hull armor only stops like 470mm of pen, thats the same amount of or less than most top tier shells keeping it balanced. but it would give you a greater chance to bounce shells when you angle the tank. this is just my thoughts on it and how they could have implemented the "DU Hull Armor". i do have to say that the reload buff is nice but not what i was looking for
sorry for the paragraph lol
Honestly, lower the engine noise, buff the turret ring and giving it a spall liner would boost the Abrams into relevancy again. Every tank since the 80s has been fitted with a spall liner. I would love the M829A3 just for the sole purpose of defeating ERA as that’s why that round was developed for in the first place. But I’ll take what I can get right now. But M829A4 was designed to have a higher penetrating value and defeat the latest developed ERA. They can buff the turret cheeks if they see fit, won’t make too much of a difference but I have punch through it before with DM53. So DU in the turret will make it 100% impenetrable. But Gajin has also admitted that the SEPv3 did receive a armor upgrade in the turret and hull.
Finally they implemented engine changes.
Some rounds shouldn’t pen abrams in some areas that it does. Like the lower front plate, due to angle, most rounds would shatter. GHPC models this much better. Also they really need to model spalling more correctly
Gajin: Russian bias doesn’t exist
Obj 279: let me introduce myself
2S38, Ka-50, T-80BVM, T-90, Strela, pantsir
@@RhodesianSuperiority fr haha
I think what would help the Abrams the most is to significantly reduce the size of the barels hitbox to like the size of the 105mm guns hitbox, about 80 percent of the time at any range and speed the barel will be hit due to the giant bore evaluator, like yeah ppl aim at it but with how often it gets hit I feel like the hitbox is way larger than what it should be.
Bro what 🤣
Guys my brother is a Abrams driver not to go in to many details about him but i asked him some small questions as he never really answers many to begin with but i asked him how heavily armored the abrams is and he said and i qoute "its not as heavily armored as a leo but believe me when i tell you it can handle almost any round out there outside of direct shot in the side from under 500m" i asked him other stuff but guys the most modern abrams is heavily armored and yes they are extremely loud as well especially inside the tank as well. The noise for gameplay should be turned down but it is not as loud as gaijin has it but its pretty damn loud and the turbine is very distinct as i have been on base and seen him in action personally and this actually when he was operating a m1a2 sep and he has now moved on to the latest variant i believe. Guys gaijin has this tank so damn wrong and yes there is DU in the tank its everywhere apparently
Note : if russia sees the new abrams on the ukrainian battlefield they will consider this a nuclear attack and respond thats why we gave them the older ones, even they know the tank is littered in depeled uranium and russia has said because of this armor they will consider it an act of nuclear attack
Nuclear attack or not
If it cant survive 30 minutes under artillery is just a fancy Bradley
Recently a T-90 show it itself, got tap by 2 bradlies, either torret stuck or driver unconcious, needed 1 more drone for crew to flee.
Then artillery decimated zone.
Woth the expansion of air superiority and anti air capabilities has shown which nations prepared for powers battle and which didnt
I THOUGHT I WAS ALONE ON THIS, ALSO ABRAMS ARE LIKE 1 SHOT KILL NOWDAYS ON GOD!
Honestly I've been playing the m3a3 Bradley in top tier more. Better thermals, hull down protection with commander optics, and tow 2bs. Plus scouting mechanics. Abrams are my second vehicle or the Apache
For spall liners and DU inserts for the SEP V2 there isn’t really much to say it did have them. When we get the SEP V3, it is extremely likely to get the DU hull upgrade. Though I am not sure what difference it will make in practice.
ODIN page literally says it
If the SEP V3's DU package is modeled correctly, the lower plate should be invulnerable to 3BM60 and maybe even DM53, though that could be a stretch. Abrams would have meaningful armor, and the turret ring and breach would still be the primary weak points.
No sep v2 has any spall liner. And no DU hull. There is no evidence for either. Only evidence of a du hull is the sep v3
The "argument" or "debate" or "scandal" is just ridiculous. Their was a blueprint pic, Abrams with MORE PLATES IN THE TURRET AND HULL??? WOW cant make this up. Its likw Abrams got upgraded. The honest to God truth is Gaijin doesn't want NATO tanks to be strong and powerful, as they are irl better than Russian tanks. Because they are a Russian company. It's their game and their product, SURE BUT the Russian bias is 1000% crystal clear, clear like a summer sky now more than ever. The added weight of the SEPS and V2s is pure magic or air? The added weight is more armor for the Abrams. "Such a penetrator design has a big benefit against targets protected by heavy ERA, which is what the main target of the M829A3 development was."
Gaijin coping because Russian top tier MBTs will be penned like NATO tanks currently are. Yeah, iirc A3 was meant to "smash through" heavy ERAs while A4 was meant to "surgically go
through" heavy ERAs. The Russian bias truly is insane. Also they made the Abrams reload faster is their way of being "nice" and answer to "leave us alone about liners". ALSO this quote I love as well,
"Additionally, a significant weight increase from
such an armor package would lead to overloading the first pair of torsion bars, which already are under an increased load on the M1 series due to the placement of the frontal armor being positioned significantly far towards the front of the hull, as well as the large armored fuel tanks either
side of the driver." So did they just admit that the location by the driver DOES have more armor? So it's not fairy dust? It's not air? It truly is as if they WANT documents for some unspoken reason. Finally, the fact that Gaijin can keep buffing Russian vehicles because they feel like it would happen or they feel like those upgrades take place is just mind-boggling
I agree, but the sound system can be abused pretty easily by turning off your own sound and increasing the sound of other tanks. I dont think sound would help much.
I would also give the later variants M829A3 and DU hull armor. Russia would suffer like the US is right now, but Germany and Sweden would have a proper competitor to contest their dominance that Russia will never really provide.
First time seeing your video. I'm impressed by how well your points were made. Subbed.
I'm a US and Germany main. Playing Abrams feels like a straight up downgrade coming from a Leopard. A reload buff is a nice touch (which makes sense, since there is so much space within that turret). But Abrams desperately needs it's protection. When I'm playing against those tanks I always consider them an easy snack, whether I'm in Leopard or a T72.
Off topic: I'm desperately waiting on IR AA buffs and for Gaijin to make helicopters lockable by those weapons. In Ukraine helicopters don't go closer than around 10km to the frontline, scared of MANPADS, in WT you can't lock a heli that is 2km away from you.
a lot of the upgrade made to the Abrams where not defensive in nature... a lot them were upgrades to thermal, Commander and Gunner NVDand Thermal optics, a CROWS nest or (Common Remotely Operated Weapon Station), upgrades to the engine to make the GAS TURBINE more efficient as well as replacing lines and lines of wiring from old style wiring to Fiber optic wiring to make the vehicle lighter in nature and which would allow for less wiring to be used...They also recieved upgrade packages to internal equipment and software, as well as IFF and GPS enhanced capabilities. As for armor, as far as i can remember and this is coming from a Marine corp tanker who served on the M1A1 tanks in the Marine Corp's inventory before the retired all of their heavy tanks said this.... ," The Marine Corp does not operate any known variant of the Abrams with DU inserts, the Army does and its only prevalent on M1A2 models." So we can at least assume that M1A2, SEP, and SEPV2 could at least have DU inserts into the armor package, as for the M1A1's most likely there was one as a Demonstrator for the Marine Corp but they opted out to reduce costs and maintenance.
None of the M1A1 models had DU armor. There was an improved armor M1A1 model (i think M1A1 AIM and SA) that increased its effectiveness above regular M1A1 level but that didn't have any DU as it was aimed for export. M1A2 has DU in turret front alone and M1A2 SEPV1 AND V2 have them in both hull and turret front.
@@Phapchamp that's just factually incorrect in gayjin's own source there is du in the turret and some were fitted with du in the hull.
@@Phapchamp incorrect, m1a1 HA and above all have DU armor, literally just look in Wikipedia my dude
@@Brzzzyexe Again as i said in other comments Army made an amendment to that license around 2006 removing that limitation of DU usage and explicitly stating DU will be now used in all production abrams hulls and turrets. Gaijin and redeffect (although redeffect is at best a meh source) ignores this.
@@Optimusprime56241 Forgot about that one
War Thunder is an arcade game masquerading as a sim to empty fan boy pockets. When I want to play a tank sim, I play "Steel Beasts".
No one has put any valid arguments to internal spall liners not working other than knee jerk reactions
More like Gaijin wants secret documents regarding the specs of american abrams.
I'm grinding the mine protection package for the Sep v2 before I grind any mobility upgrades
Funnily enough. There are reports of the Abrams' turret ring being hit with the only death being the gunner, whom I believe was struck directly by the sabot in an incident of friendly fire. It's also laughable that m829a2 still cant go through spots that are proof against m829a1. As far as the game is concerned, it's the same round. But when US mains say anything, it's "Oh but M829a2 is the second best dart in the game"
Yeah, yet the front of Russian vehicles are still bouncing it when they shouldn't be.
If Gaijin hates Abrams I don't even wanna think what they think about Challenger 2 and Leclerc
Gaijin increases the weight, doesn't add armor, decides they should have worse mobility with evidence to the contrary, and wonders why the tanks underperform. They do this constantly with US tanks like the M41A1, having the turret traverse speed of the M41 despite having an upgraded traverse speed because one guy misread documents and submitted a bug report that was immediately corrected, but Gaijin still changed it.
This could possibly end in a very similiar fashion as the cjnese tech tree drama did
Speaking of shells, the fact that Gaijin said they believe m829a3 offers no advantage over m829a2, and would do next to nothing against Kontakt 5 just shows they just make up numbers they like. The round was specifically made to be more effective against Kontakt 5 with its steel tip, and it’s been shown to work. Also Gaijin saying it wouldn’t have any better penetration against composite is also completely made up. There’s a noticeable length increase between a3 and a2, and that alone would give it better penetration.
If they went with IRL examples most of the top tier Russian tanks would lose a lot of that durability they have in game. Quite a few of them have been destroyed in combat in the past year or so. Compare that to the Abrams M-1 series of tanks most of the destruction has come from IEDs. I am sure the US military would not be fielding a tank with the weaknesses as shown in the game. I do remember seeing a M1A1 at Ft. Sill they used to test protection against Artillery back in the late '80's.
I am not going to say that russia tech tree isnt biased, but when was the last time abrams seen a real threat like apfsds in live combat? From what i gather abrams fought against sand gypsies with rpg's and IED"s, not against major power with heavy tanks, thats why TUSK exists, they're literally armor packages to protect sides from RPG rounds
1991, even if the Iraqis were using lesser rounds. Shooting center of mass would hit the "weakspot" we all know as the turret ring. Not a single Abrams was lost to a shot like that@@stealthyfuck3217
The point being that everyone knows the combat capabilities of Russian tanks and they are not the greatest. NATO tanks are a wildcard since they have not had much real world combat experience. The NATO tanks were designed to be effective against the Russian tanks and the extra weight can be explained as extra protection from MANPAD anti-tank weapons and IEDs. I really don't think WT should have advanced past the early 60's just to avoid these problems.
I can confirm from personal experience that the Abrams is significantly quieter than even an M113's diesel engine
I refuse them messing with the engine noises is an accident. Nobody sane listens to the pure sound and thinks the abrams is quiet.
God I can't wait for the storm when and if they add the V3 the only way people won't whine is if it gets trophy as an add on because there is very little difference between the V2 and V3 it's mostly internal there is an armor "upgrade" but the change is unknown
no photos inside of the tank or books/documents shows that Abrams has spall liner
By no means am I an EXCELLENT player. But I think the Abrams is still objectively a BAD tank in game. My reasoning?
I've been playing since 2015, and I have Germany and Japan at top tier too. Germany was my first so, my stats are pretty bad on my leopards, but once I learnt how to play, they were amazing tanks.
And as for Japan, the Type 10 and 90 series of MBT have the most positive K/Ds. By a fair margin, too.
Whenever I play an Abrams, it feels slower, bigger, not much better protection, and STILL a slower reload than my Type 10s and 90s. Sure, it has a few more degrees of gun depression, but the hydraulic suspension on the JPN MBTs usually makes up for it, if you're playing them correctly.
The Abrams NEEDS an armor buff. When a 70, almost 80 ton tank is getting one-shotted just as much, usually MORE often than a 44-ton tank, there are issues.
Not gonna be suprised if there is going to be another leak incident.
The real problem is realism. Gaijin is never clear on how much realism they want.
I thibk they should give the Abrams M1A2s a spall liner because these tanks aren't being used the same way as in real life.
The abrams is very heavy, this is why irl it has no spall liners but also has no need. The US army always expects to fire first or to have the airforce destroy ground targets. Giving spall liners would just make all of these tanks rough equals.
They seem like their armor is weak vs the other countries top tier
TKX and type 10 would disagree
Italy top tier mbt is worse
The merkavas will like to have a word aswell. The type 10 and TKX feel better to play than them.@@no-wl9xx
What i hate about abrast is that they dont have lws or good era. v2 has a giant weakspot
Interesting video, could you make another video like this talking about the Challenger, Leclerc, Leopard, T80, T90 etc?
Wow...Really good and informative video...Thank you.
I dont get how spall liners for frontal armor works to reduce spall... Composite armors are basically layered spall liners yet addinga "spall liner" magically reduces spall
Gaijin seeing proof regarding DU armor in Abrams tanks: There's not enough evidence, not happening.
Gaijin basing the T-90M stats on a sales pitch video for potential buyers: Everything seems to be legit here!
If they were to take T-90M characteristics out of thin air, they would add -15 kph of reverse speed to it. It is alleged, there are video proof, but there are no solid documents that can prove it, so they aren't adding it. So in game T-80BVM is better as of now. Abrams with its mobility and 5 second reload is now better than any Russian MBT anyway. So what is your problem?
@@Янус_Ырт the problem is gaijin cherry picking what sources to use and when to use them. Gaijin has added vehicles and features based off far less documentation than what’s been provided on the DU armor, M829A3 round, etc. It’s an issue of inconsistency, which to all appears as bias.
The T-90M in game is actually based on the T-90A… They had an opportunity to buff its armor, and reverse speed drastically. But guess what? There is no hard concrete proof a production T-90M can do 15 kmh in reverse, no data on the improved there array, or hull array if it is upgraded at all besides the Relikt.
The only improvements the T-90M has over the A is the ERA, spall liner (which won’t be guaranteed to save you lol), and gun handling… It’s fine to be upset with the state of the game, but don’t make things up. It weakens your side of the fence 9/10 in the long run, then gaijin will stop listening, and no one will take you seriously at all.
@@BARelement that's exactly my point - Gaijin could, but didn't, because no hard evidence, whilst author of original comment claims that T-90M parameters were taken out of thin air
@@Янус_Ырт "Abrams with its mobility and 5 second reload is now better than any Russian MBT anyway"
You are smoking crack
I’m trying to figure out how the armor is the same comparing m1a1 to m1a2 but yet some how gains 3 tons?….. because the armor irl is more it’s upgraded….. just classified gayjin
Idk why us mains are supposedly bad, we just like russian have to actually get good to get through 5.0-6.7
M1A1 "Click-Bait" sale...
I honestly dont even care for realism in top tier of wt, most of these numbers on the newest tanks are made up. I would just like them to sacriface some realism for balance and gameplay reasons.
And how tf did that fuel tank eat up all that 600mm round 😢
At least you had a reload buff
I will not play warthunder again till they fix the abrams.... i now have 200 plus flight hours in the f16c on dcs. having much more fun on at for now. A good break from that mentally exhausting game is nice.
I've slowly stopped playing it, tired of the grind, I went back to DCS and it was a really good choice, I mainly fly the Ka-50 in DCS and it's so much fun
Personally i think gaijin should just leave their "primary non russian (for non russian tanks) sources that give me exact protection of the vehicle or bust" approach. This will obviously benefit Russians the most as they are the ones that always shout to the whole world that their new shitbox is just older shitbox but with a new protection tile installed. Not to mention they just use simple RHA as armor which is infinitely easier to model and estimate than NERA. Gaijin needs to start accepting secondary sources for obvious things like Abrams having DU armor in the hull.
Redeffect did cover many of the claims made by people over the DU and also the claim about M829A3 from Gaijin and he wasn't wrong.
Yep. Red effect’s video in a nutshell:
- they don’t have crew spall liners
- the M829A3 would most certainly make a difference if modeled correctly
- DU armor in the hull exists in 5 tanks at training facilities. The hull armor is totally classified
@@christopherchartier3017Also that the Sep V3 is the first production Abrams said by reliable sources to have an “upgraded hull” that if which “we don’t even know is DU, or not”. Which makes this more confusing is the fact the serial numbers which indicated Uranium (U), are now replaced with “M”.
It's true that the Abrams don't have fiber spall liners like the Leopards. Instead, it does have anti-spall layers integral to the armor. Redeffect, and Gaijin seem to not realize that an integral system can exist.
@@TheIke444 I think he would have awared of such information but bc he mostly focused on the main problem of the video
@@TheIke444 if you integrate it into the armor it wouldn’t be very good at being a spall liner lol
Unpopular opinion but it's a great way to balance and fix top tier and the game in general. Instead of haveing weird battle rating systems, they need to stick to hard numbers like 10.0 and 11.0 ect no 10.3, 10.7 ect wich will stop the uptier of haveing one 10.7 in a full 10.3 game, it would just be a 10.0 and 11.0 relieving stress on the mm. To do this rework and balance the tanks for GAMEPLAY not so much realism. You can keep realistic characteristics and features but tweak them to make a vehicle unique for its br. For example russian tanks, have high mobility, good armor and have a low profile, yet slow reverse, no gun depression. That's the theme. Just make it so that it's close to realistic yet has a balance to fit the new hard br. If all 11.7(12.0) features a small liner, give the other a small liner for gameplay balance, while keeping the main characteristics of a vehicle nation similar to traditional playstyles, ie some being able to perform better at range, some being able to perform better closer ect. I know that some people want this to be as realistic as possible but people have to remember it's a game, you can make it pretty realistic but balance it to improve the overall quality of the GAME, and in turn extend the life of the game even further
I always hate the implementation of modern technologies very iffie.
Would prefer it not being implemented at all, just stick to what we know and maybe make 1 vehcalce for each faction that is evaluated for balance (each having an aspect to focus) and let player choose in what to focus.
And concidering Merican will cry to have their Abram, just have a diferent mode for incomplete or live it to models.
Now my reasons for it:
1- like expose, incloplete information AND information given by official who most likly exagerate them, and where test at 100% maintenance and only top marks stages.
2- Economic factors are ignore, this can be seen even today, russia had to fill up their tank with cheap termos because it coudnt aford more, they still work and how older tanks have basicly become arrillery. So aspect like material needed to produce arent accounted for, thus favouring heavily any tank who has "top of the line" as any cost of profuction, repair, training arent really ajusted and varied during states of the ecnomoy, i already doubted the ammo and fuel cost.
3- the issue with western vehacles, speaken out on the video, now why is that so?
And the reason is clear:
-Over use of funds
-Corruption
-Useless tech
This is a byproduct of modern defens department being in bed with the weapones producer, time and time again (even before but more so eviently now) producers will expend exorbitants amount of money in little upgrades, useless changes and even just drcalre a whole research trash and fiscar it, sometimes even getting a reinvestment for the loss.
This video needs to go to snail HQ
WG saying cant confirm its like tryinig to bait another leak again lul
ngl but having more pen or armor definitely isn't goanna change shit for players if they keep relying on that instead of the pure mobility.
+ You are pretty much faster in every way
+ Your turret armor quite often bounces anything but the 292's round
(especially when slightly angling it when noticing the enemy is targeting Your gun barrel or Breech)
+ Your engine becomes near silent beyond 100m (Which means You're the Sneakiest MBT of the Modern tanks)
- Everybody knows where to shoot it.
- You absolutely can't rely on Your teammates.
- Sniping at long range often results in some bastard shooting through the turret ring regardless of You being hull down or not.
Let Me know if I missed some points, I'd like to know more
The video needs more recognition
I will just spam CAS with the F16C more if they don’t fix the Abrams. If the fucking A3 isn’t added the pave way on top of peoples heads will do the trick.
If US line get M829A3
German should get DM63 😂
Germany doesnt need the help dude.
@@rogeryoung9934neither does the US, learn to aim you already have a really good toptier round
@@rogeryoung9934 yep but people are greedy sir
I need more bias
You do realize there would be no difference between dm63 and dm53 ingame right?
Gaijin enjoys gaslighting. They’ll sit there and tell you that there’s not enough evidence etc to add something to a vehicle. Or DU was only added into the hull of a few Abrams so we can’t add it, meanwhile they’re plenty comfortable adding many vehicles that have never seen active duty. Warthunder loves it’s prototypes and doesn’t hold those vehicles to the same standard.
I’ll laugh when they’ll add the T-14 without it being in service
Hull armor is so bad that I can be confident to pen it and cripple it. It's why I strayed away from top US Ground
It's not just Gaijin who doesn't like these Americans. There are a lot of people who do that.
Somehow Abrams and other 2 MBT's from the big 3 nations are at the same BR as objectively worse tanks and still suffer
The big 3 have pretty much the same mobility, better shells, better armor, slightly worse reload, and still get worse win rates than smaller nations like UK, Japan, Italy, France (for now at least, now Italy and France have tanks from the big 3)
Excellent video, you got yourself a sub
Plz we all know why its the way it its- If western vehicles perform better than russian ones, developers gonna have to work remote. From siberian forest. In gulag camp....
Squad right now has more accurate Abrams than War thunder
Great video!
What are hellfire missiles like for the apaches now? Just got back into wt after a year and these missile was dogshit before. Couldnt take out other helis with them, bushes/tress use to ruin there aim. They still.just as bad?
Video on helis this week actually. They're not great
cant a agree more i researched down the 105 abrams and gor one of the 120 abrams and ones i got that m1a1 i stopped play the americans and played my swedish strv122 much more fun too play sweden then usa imo at to tier
My dude's keep in mind its a game and the Tank is not supposed to be 1:1 like the real life BECAUSE ITS STILL IN USE TODAY!
To favour your own demand of a good MBT Gaijin would have to ask the US about the Tank and its functions to make a realistic in game model work.
For the DU armor you know they would have to do it properly then just slap it on as "Spall liner" for the Turret
Even if it gets the DU in the Turret,you still have by design of the Abrams series the Neck shot that really is a massive weak spot,just like the T-Series of Tanks
From someone using both the Soviet and UK tanks I will say the Abrams is really good especially since its 5s reload that can out reload almost every Tank.
It really is a good tank for what its fighting,but sadly its design not just to engage tanks and survive them,but mostly RPG's that are the only biggest issue in a war.
Yeah but turret neck is missing armour and if you sneeze on it nukes the tank
it doesnt change the fact Gaijin cherrypicks who and what to use as a source. or who and what receives buffs and nerfs. By your own statement it being a videogames gives more creedence to adding the DU in the hull and making up a value anyway
@@SteelxWolf Its you who play's the game and decides what and when to play a nation
There are countless Abrams games as well as GHPC if you want to experience the full Abrams
Gaijin is making the game they way and decide when or where to add stuff
They need to satisfy EVERYONE not just you.
I could even make the Abrams work with that 5 sec reload,and I still will complain about skill rather then the Tank been "Realistic"
You (I assume US Main) have others that want they tanks realistic,that wont and will not be approved of gaijin especially since the game is now on the Watch list of the US National Security,one small mistake,one added classified mistake and the Game is blocked in the US for good.
Understand??
Its not just of "Oh my Abrams should have this and that and should tank 50 rounds to the neck" yea,will it be worth it when the game gets blocked in the US and all of your money and effort in vain??
Keep it up and we will see,keep complaining and not training,and you will loose what you fight for the most.
The SEP V2 had APS
About spall liners in the Abrams vs other tanks.
The Abrams costs around 10$ million, while the leopard 2 costs about 6$ million. The US has spends more on its military than the next 10 nations on that list combined. But you think the Us suddenly cheats out when it comes to spall liners? What an absolutely ridiculous notion. You have to throw all logic out the window to think that.
As for spall liners, do you think the country with the highest military budget in the world wouldn’t instal spall liners in their MBT that already has depleted Uranium armor? Either they work and the Abrams has it, or it didn’t work or was deemed unnecessary and the Abram s doesn’t have it. Do you think a post Cold War broke Russia can afford spall liners when. The US can’t? Do you think Germany, with 1/100th the military budget of the US can afford spall liners, when the Us can’t? It’s even funnier when you factor in that the US went with the American Abrams, instead of the German Leopard 2 as their MBT because the Abrams was found to have higher survivability.
15:07 simple mistake, heaviest MBT in game. There's still the Maus and E100
Maus and E100 were heavies not main battle tanks
the video topic implies MBTs. thats such a needless nitpick
Make video about Merkava IV next
I am in Missouri 😔
I love how this dude uses his brain and logic to show his opinion
wish you get bigger than spookbiastoon
You've got some factual mistakes, though, they don't make that much sense.
M1A1 HC doesn't has M829A2, only A1.
(there was something else, but I forgot)
M1A1 AIM might not be the best Abrams, but definitely not the worst. There isn't that much difference between M829A1 and KE-W, but Gen 2 thermals for AIM definitely is a buff. Gen 1 thermals are so fucking blurry it makes actual aiming hard enough and goes well for general target recognition, while Gen 2 thermals make aiming for weakspots at range comfortable.
On top of that I'd tell that there two 'families' of Abrams tanks: first one is earlier lighter ones (M1, IPM1, M1A1, KVT) and later heavies (M1A1 HC and others). And once you've got to the point where Abrams got fat enough and got over 60 tons any more weight doesn't feels at all. I've got more than 3000 battles in Abrams tanks and I can tell you that these heavy M1s don't really vary one to another in terms of mobility. But the advantages of going on and on are clear: with M1A2 you get the CITV and M829A2, with SEP V1 you getting Gen 2 thermals. And only then with SEP V2 all you get is some bad-ass looking tank but on practice nothing else but extra weight.
I complitly agree wit everything