oh you dont wanna start nothing with the Zzoolinguist, you'll be surprised how ugly it gets edit: guys please stop calling me ugly thats not what o meant
"But what about Octopodes?" - Someone who is very, very, intelligent. In fact, we should all just give up because they are clearly the exarch of linguistics and all knowledge flows from them.
Some potential solutions to the "pluralizing octopus" problem: 1. Stop using the word "octopus" altogether. Simply call them "cephalopods" or if necessary "eight-armed cephalopods". 2. In the plural, only ever use "octopus" as an attributive noun, in a construction like "octopus molluscs" or whatever. 3. Replace the word for "octopus" with a calque or loan of its translation into another language. Afrikaans says "seekat" for "octopus" which means "sea cat". Norwegian says "blekksprut" for "cephalopod" which means "ink-squirt". I'm personally in favor of Anglicizing the Norwegian word into "blecksproot" because it sounds funny. 4. Replace the word "octopus" with "inkfish", by narrowing the meaning. 5. Have the plural of "octopus" be the same as the singular, just like "sheep". 6. In writing pluralize octopus as "octop____" and let the reader fill in thons preferred plural ending. I suppose in speech this would be realized as "octop" followed by mouthing that to a lipreader can be interpreted as either "-i", "-uses", or "-odes", though I guess the stress still gives away whether you prefer "octopodes" or "octopuses/octopi". 7. Pluralize "octopus" in any number of counterintuitive and profoundly silly ways which change each time you use the word. Octopees. Octopussen. Supotco. Octopingpangwallawallabingbang. 8. Use "octopodes" as the plural but be contractually obligated to pause for an uncomfortably long time after saying it, before firmly stating, "octopoDEEZ NUTS"
As soon as I saw the ending, I said to myself in the nerdiest, most annoying prescriptivist voice I coild think of, "WhAt AbOuT oCtOpOdEs," because I already know that this is now your most controversial take for people who say that English has a future tense.
6:44 Quick correction. In spanish, agua is a gramatically feminine word but the article used for it is the gramatical masculine. The sentence "El agua es buena" (The (masculine) water is good (feminine)) is a good example of this. The explanation behind this is that "el agua" sounds better than "la agua." That's it.
So PIE really only has animate-inanimate distinction but thought it would be funny to call animate things male and inanimate things female, leaving its descendents with this confusing system for people to get offended at in the modern day?
@@Just_A_Banana no. Women were clearly animate before this distinction, and still were as "animate" after - that is, their animacy level, as persons, did not decrease - they are still as likely to be subjects and objects as men/objects of masculine gender. By assessing it this way you commit an anteopological folly and show your inner unbased eurocentric assumptions about prehistoric societies.
To answer the original question: no. PIE's feminine is thought to come from the neuter plural, probably as some sort of collective. Remnants of this remain in language such as Latin, where masculine nominative for, say, adjectives has -us -ī (sing. and plural, respectively), neutral has -um and -a, and feminine -a and -ae. However, it's important to note that many PIE feminine words don't end in the -eh2. A lot of -i stem and consonant stem words are feminine. To give an example from Latin again, Juno is a female goddess, and her name is a consonant (specifically -n) stem word. Nominative Iūnō, Accusative Iūnōnem. TL;DR: At its earliest possibly reconstructible stage, PIE had just an animate-inanimate distinction. A feminine form got added at some point, probably deriving from the old neuter plural.
2:19 I remember first learning to read greek and finding how using (the Latin equivalents) of nt and mp to represent /d/ and /b/ was quite clever since you're just putting a voiced nasal in the same place of articulation as the following voiceless plosives to make them into the voiced counterparts
right! also how the voicing on the z in τζ spreads backwards. the only one i have a problem with is γχ. where does the n sound come from in Συγχαρητήρια
6:39 This is one of the best things to understand about languages. No languages are “more complicated”, any complication arises to express ideas more efficiently
The presentation was very nice, thanks for the lesson I liked the drag part, it showed how evolution of a word could cause such a vast variaties of words just in one language by borrowing from cousin languages. I wished there was ipa, but it was still very readable, so thanks for adding some sort of phonetic transcription, it helped a lot.
Why does tagging words because of relying on inflections _necessitate_ the sorting of words into categories? Sure, not doing so would get rid of all the distinctions you could easily make otherwise (such as, say, between the animate object in the sentence and the inanimate object in the sentence), but if you removed all grammatical gender from e.g. Spanish, you'd still get a passable language, wouldn't you?
...Although considering that Spanish was used as the example language.... *IF* I remember my GCSEs correctly there are at least two mistakes in the example sentence.
@@randomguy-tg7ok Yes, it would still make sense, but it wouldn't be an inflecting language anymore. (ok it still would be because verbs) but it would make it similar to English, which is a very morphologically simple language.
@@brighthades5968 I didn't mean that derogatorily. I said "for some reason" as in "for reasons I am not aware of". This is the first video of his I've seen.
Gif is not jif because it is translated into most other languages as /gif/ If GIF is not a property of English language but the whole world, then it should conform to be easy to identify and pronounce
@@zzineohp Well in these cases entire words were borrowed. But GIF is just a string of latin letters so the prononciation gimmicks of english must not be important here
watching this video caused me to become enshrouded in a wandering horde of prognostic flies thanks, zizneohatshepsut, your videos never fail to scry my fate!
at 2:20 i couldnt help but notice you pronouncing 'Maori' as 'May-oori' Just thought I'd let you know it's correct pronounciation is similar to the word 'Mouldy' just with a rolled r :) - Polynesian girl thats kind of into linguistics
it almost definitely varies by dialect and speaker, but the standard Māori pronunciation for the word Māori is /maːɔɾi/, which is quite similar to how he said it and has different vowels to "mouldy" (again, this is just in the standard form, obviously different dialects will pronounce it differently so im not saying youre saying it wrong im just saying hes not that far off *a* correct pronunciation). Also, using a rolled R, while correct, isnt really necessary while speaking english, cause most English dialects don't have it, and you can't expect people to be able to pronounce every sound of every language, so using the regular english R, as different of a sound as it is, is perfectly acceptable, just like how Mandarin uses L to replace it since they have no rhotic sound. That said, saying Māori like ~"mouldy" is the standard english pronunciation, while what he said for ao is closer to the real Māori pronunciation, so it is a bit weird that he mixed a decent approximation of the vowels (although he did a long ō instead of a short o), with the English R, mixing the native and loaned pronunciations
I learnt today that GIF stands for graphics interchange format. I learnt also that I now have an extremely valid reason to pronounce it with a hard g. gif with a hard g is literally just the first sound of each word comprising it
When i saw "ł" in the weird orthography examples i wanted to leave the video with a dislike, but then realized that i want to see more linguistics stuff on my feed soooo. We're stuck together, language boy.
@@arthurgabriel2625 yes but in my mind most natives think of the sh sound first. It's the sound in the letter's name and it's also the one we inherited from latin. The others came from later borrowings
0:07 In defense, it was an exercise of language evolution. I'm not a fan of his channel either though, from what I've seen of him he makes a lot of mistakes and is highly playing up an energetic tiktok personality
@@zzineohp if aspiration is what makes it sound aggressive, why don't English speakers think that about their own language? I think it's just cause German has been memed to oblivion by people who don't know much about it, like in the schmetterling rage comic
I thought PIE split the feminine from the animate, not the inanimate...? *seh₂ from adding *-h₂ onto animate-later-masculine *só, rather than inanimate-later-neuter *tód.
The PIE feminine actually partly came from both. There were both animate and inanimates that became feminine when the gender was coming about. I'd assume he put it into a derivation from inanimate, however, because most feminines came from inanimates. So while both, mostly inanimate.
The pure nominative singular inflection of feminine gram.gender was made from plurals/collectives of inanimates. But i wouldn't read to much into it - to be effective at it's job a new gram.gender must be substantialy different to the older one, so it can't be derrived from it - and it must come from somewhere. It had a funny side effect of nearly all names for groups of inanimate objects/high concepts now being feminine gender in most IE languages.
so do we have beef or what
oh you dont wanna start nothing with the Zzoolinguist, you'll be surprised how ugly it gets
edit: guys please stop calling me ugly thats not what o meant
hi
no way…
Oh my god its THE etymology nerd
Bird
i thought this would be 10 different recordings all layered on top of one another
>at once
>posts video that's not at once
i was cheated
It's not? Oh shoot, this is why I need to watch my videos before I publish them.
@@zzineohp But seriously, you should make an alternative video with all of them layered.
(possibly adjust the speeds of the videos)
"But what about Octopodes?"
- Someone who is very, very, intelligent. In fact, we should all just give up because they are clearly the exarch of linguistics and all knowledge flows from them.
Some potential solutions to the "pluralizing octopus" problem:
1. Stop using the word "octopus" altogether. Simply call them "cephalopods" or if necessary "eight-armed cephalopods".
2. In the plural, only ever use "octopus" as an attributive noun, in a construction like "octopus molluscs" or whatever.
3. Replace the word for "octopus" with a calque or loan of its translation into another language. Afrikaans says "seekat" for "octopus" which means "sea cat". Norwegian says "blekksprut" for "cephalopod" which means "ink-squirt". I'm personally in favor of Anglicizing the Norwegian word into "blecksproot" because it sounds funny.
4. Replace the word "octopus" with "inkfish", by narrowing the meaning.
5. Have the plural of "octopus" be the same as the singular, just like "sheep".
6. In writing pluralize octopus as "octop____" and let the reader fill in thons preferred plural ending. I suppose in speech this would be realized as "octop" followed by mouthing that to a lipreader can be interpreted as either "-i", "-uses", or "-odes", though I guess the stress still gives away whether you prefer "octopodes" or "octopuses/octopi".
7. Pluralize "octopus" in any number of counterintuitive and profoundly silly ways which change each time you use the word. Octopees. Octopussen. Supotco. Octopingpangwallawallabingbang.
8. Use "octopodes" as the plural but be contractually obligated to pause for an uncomfortably long time after saying it, before firmly stating, "octopoDEEZ NUTS"
As soon as I saw the ending, I said to myself in the nerdiest, most annoying prescriptivist voice I coild think of, "WhAt AbOuT oCtOpOdEs," because I already know that this is now your most controversial take for people who say that English has a future tense.
I am in a constant struggle between using octopodes because it sounds the best and using octopuses because octopi makes no sense.
OCTOPODEEZ NUTZ
I've just taken to saying octopideposes to make everyone happy and / or upset
6:44 Quick correction. In spanish, agua is a gramatically feminine word but the article used for it is the gramatical masculine. The sentence "El agua es buena" (The (masculine) water is good (feminine)) is a good example of this.
The explanation behind this is that "el agua" sounds better than "la agua." That's it.
article* (el pronombre sigue siendo femenino: “el agua mía” y no “el agua mío”). buen comentario
@@holaliceanos Perdón, se me olvidan los nombres xd gracias por la corrección
*Throws chair*
So PIE really only has animate-inanimate distinction but thought it would be funny to call animate things male and inanimate things female, leaving its descendents with this confusing system for people to get offended at in the modern day?
Man, englishmen are so wierd... What's offensive about grammatical gender.....?
@@nikitakrim02 Well it's kinda calling men animate and women inanimate
@@Just_A_Banana no. Women were clearly animate before this distinction, and still were as "animate" after - that is, their animacy level, as persons, did not decrease - they are still as likely to be subjects and objects as men/objects of masculine gender. By assessing it this way you commit an anteopological folly and show your inner unbased eurocentric assumptions about prehistoric societies.
@@nikitakrim02 Jesus christ chill out I just said what it sounds like
To answer the original question: no. PIE's feminine is thought to come from the neuter plural, probably as some sort of collective.
Remnants of this remain in language such as Latin, where masculine nominative for, say, adjectives has -us -ī (sing. and plural, respectively), neutral has -um and -a, and feminine -a and -ae.
However, it's important to note that many PIE feminine words don't end in the -eh2. A lot of -i stem and consonant stem words are feminine. To give an example from Latin again, Juno is a female goddess, and her name is a consonant (specifically -n) stem word. Nominative Iūnō, Accusative Iūnōnem.
TL;DR: At its earliest possibly reconstructible stage, PIE had just an animate-inanimate distinction. A feminine form got added at some point, probably deriving from the old neuter plural.
2:19 I remember first learning to read greek and finding how using (the Latin equivalents) of nt and mp to represent /d/ and /b/ was quite clever since you're just putting a voiced nasal in the same place of articulation as the following voiceless plosives to make them into the voiced counterparts
right! also how the voicing on the z in τζ spreads backwards. the only one i have a problem with is γχ. where does the n sound come from in Συγχαρητήρια
Expected 10 linguistic videos to play at the same time, disappointed.
6:39 This is one of the best things to understand about languages. No languages are “more complicated”, any complication arises to express ideas more efficiently
The presentation was very nice, thanks for the lesson
I liked the drag part, it showed how evolution of a word could cause such a vast variaties of words just in one language by borrowing from cousin languages.
I wished there was ipa, but it was still very readable, so thanks for adding some sort of phonetic transcription, it helped a lot.
Strapped for video ideas? Semitic conlang!
Why does tagging words because of relying on inflections _necessitate_ the sorting of words into categories? Sure, not doing so would get rid of all the distinctions you could easily make otherwise (such as, say, between the animate object in the sentence and the inanimate object in the sentence), but if you removed all grammatical gender from e.g. Spanish, you'd still get a passable language, wouldn't you?
...Although considering that Spanish was used as the example language.... *IF* I remember my GCSEs correctly there are at least two mistakes in the example sentence.
@@randomguy-tg7ok Yes, it would still make sense, but it wouldn't be an inflecting language anymore. (ok it still would be because verbs) but it would make it similar to English, which is a very morphologically simple language.
small correction at 2:32 - welsh uses u to represent /i/, not /y/
I think it's dialectic isn't it
@@zzineohp Fairly certain Welsh doesn't even have /y/
Northern accents use it for /ɨ/, which is what I think he meant (since for some reason he doesn't use IPA symbols).
@@Hambrack you know he made at least 2 videos about why he hates the ipa
@@brighthades5968 I didn't mean that derogatorily. I said "for some reason" as in "for reasons I am not aware of". This is the first video of his I've seen.
It's "graphical interchange format" not "jraphical interchange format"!
That’s not how acronyms work, you don’t pronounce laser like “la-sear”
Also it’s graphics not graphical.
Gif is not jif because it is translated into most other languages as /gif/
If GIF is not a property of English language but the whole world, then it should conform to be easy to identify and pronounce
Lots of words are like that, just because most languages don't have a soft g. Orange. Germanium. That's just how it works.
@@zzineohp Well in these cases entire words were borrowed. But GIF is just a string of latin letters so the prononciation gimmicks of english must not be important here
watching this video caused me to become enshrouded in a wandering horde of prognostic flies
thanks, zizneohatshepsut, your videos never fail to scry my fate!
I was gonna share your video but then you say you pronounce Gif as Yiph
at 2:20 i couldnt help but notice you pronouncing 'Maori' as 'May-oori' Just thought I'd let you know it's correct pronounciation is similar to the word 'Mouldy' just with a rolled r :)
- Polynesian girl thats kind of into linguistics
it almost definitely varies by dialect and speaker, but the standard Māori pronunciation for the word Māori is /maːɔɾi/, which is quite similar to how he said it and has different vowels to "mouldy" (again, this is just in the standard form, obviously different dialects will pronounce it differently so im not saying youre saying it wrong im just saying hes not that far off *a* correct pronunciation).
Also, using a rolled R, while correct, isnt really necessary while speaking english, cause most English dialects don't have it, and you can't expect people to be able to pronounce every sound of every language, so using the regular english R, as different of a sound as it is, is perfectly acceptable, just like how Mandarin uses L to replace it since they have no rhotic sound.
That said, saying Māori like ~"mouldy" is the standard english pronunciation, while what he said for ao is closer to the real Māori pronunciation, so it is a bit weird that he mixed a decent approximation of the vowels (although he did a long ō instead of a short o), with the English R, mixing the native and loaned pronunciations
Well I didn’t follow most of that but you clearly really enjoy it so it was very entertaining
5:53 can you tell me whathidden country is located between France and Italy? 😂😂
Megamonaco
Tired: where does the "singular they" come from
Wired: was it always accompanied by the "singular are"?
Thanks, instead of trying to explain all this to people I'll just send them this video next time
I learnt today that GIF stands for graphics interchange format. I learnt also that I now have an extremely valid reason to pronounce it with a hard g. gif with a hard g is literally just the first sound of each word comprising it
Can you name any other acronym that follows that rule
@@zzineohp I can't. However, it's fun.
When i saw "ł" in the weird orthography examples i wanted to leave the video with a dislike, but then realized that i want to see more linguistics stuff on my feed soooo. We're stuck together, language boy.
Hahah get bent nerd
@@zzineohpDaamn U quick. Got yourself a follow!
@@zzineohp damn what an instant reply, u got urself a follow
I thought this was gonna be a meme video where you edited the videos to complete each other's sentences or smth, but this is cool too. 👍
Thank you for your community service🙏🏻🙏🏻
in portuguese is also the english sound
As someone who also speaks portuguese, x can make a whole lotta sounds
@@arthurgabriel2625 yes but in my mind most natives think of the sh sound first. It's the sound in the letter's name and it's also the one we inherited from latin. The others came from later borrowings
octopodes is the proper plural! octopus is greek not latin!
Well it used to be. Presently, octopus is an English word that's pluraljzed using an English pattern.
But what about Octopodes?
keep up the great content my zziney friend!
0:07 In defense, it was an exercise of language evolution. I'm not a fan of his channel either though, from what I've seen of him he makes a lot of mistakes and is highly playing up an energetic tiktok personality
1:45 the burst of air used for plosives is.... more forceful than in other languages?? something being uvular requires more air to be used??
Yeah, its called aspiration
@@zzineohp if aspiration is what makes it sound aggressive, why don't English speakers think that about their own language? I think it's just cause German has been memed to oblivion by people who don't know much about it, like in the schmetterling rage comic
@@selladore4911 yeah that's probably a big part of it, but i do like my aspiration theory
Yo la agua bebo??
Do you like codenames the board game?
10 seconds in and im immediately subbed
etymology of your username please
Phoenix backwards, I wanted it to be last alphabetically
@@zzineohp your channel is unsearchable but i have found plenty of interesting videos on amenhotep
@@zzineohphow do you pronounce it
@@killianobrien2007phoenix backwards like he said
@@zzineohpWhy is there an X on your reddit username but Zz on your UA-cam username?
6:40 this hurts my eyes
hell yeah
octopusen
Octopüsen?
Once in a life time!!
Water flowing underground
the joke at 5:57 lowkey caught me so off guard idk why that was so hilarious
It's a jan Misali reference I think
a joke about Shorts in general, I think
a joke about Shorts in general, I think
0:07 who is that?
Human1011
I like gis stuff
People who pronounce "Gif" as "Jif" at the pearly gates of heaven when they meet God and pronounce his name as "Jod":
Gentrification
The g in God isn't before a front vowel
Ok Jraphics
gottem
why sub to a linguistics channel when you have such a little understanding of how language works?
I thought PIE split the feminine from the animate, not the inanimate...? *seh₂ from adding *-h₂ onto animate-later-masculine *só, rather than inanimate-later-neuter *tód.
The PIE feminine actually partly came from both. There were both animate and inanimates that became feminine when the gender was coming about. I'd assume he put it into a derivation from inanimate, however, because most feminines came from inanimates. So while both, mostly inanimate.
@@applesauce7843 I see, very interesting.
The pure nominative singular inflection of feminine gram.gender was made from plurals/collectives of inanimates. But i wouldn't read to much into it - to be effective at it's job a new gram.gender must be substantialy different to the older one, so it can't be derrived from it - and it must come from somewhere.
It had a funny side effect of nearly all names for groups of inanimate objects/high concepts now being feminine gender in most IE languages.