Your Grammar Is Basic Compared to Black English
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Black English is misunderstood. It's grammatically more complex, especially in the grammar of tense, aspect, and mood. Let's see why.
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#linguistics #languagelearning #languagefacts #africanamerican #africanamericanenglish #aave #africanamericanvernacularenglish #ebonics #blackenglish
So "tryna" CAN mean "trying to", but you're right that we also use it a lot to mean "want to," "thinking about," "planning on, " etc.
i’m not black but grew up speaking Black English w my peers - the example that came to mind is fixing something.
“i’m tryna fix this thing” could mean both “in the moment i am attempting to repair it”, and “i have intention down the line to fix the thing”.
@@Very_Okay That's a good example because saying "I'm not tryna fix that," would definitely sound like "I have no intention of fixing that."
@@Very_Okaywhen you make a suggestion to a friend and they respond “I ain’t fixin to do sh*t” and you all burst out laughing is a staple when communicating in black. I grew up hearing that on the west coast with family and neighbors from the south.
@@theinvisiblewoman5709 😂😂😂 true.
@@theinvisiblewoman5709 I also know of white speech examples of "fixin' " to do something. It meant more like I'm planning on doing something, either in the near future, or at an indeterminate time. But I don't think I ever heard it in the negative.
This is really interesting because whenever I hear someone misuse Black English grammar in an incorrect way, it feels the same way as when someone misuses Standard American English. I guess it was just my brain picking up on the grammatical rules of both systems.
Agreed. A white friend once got frustrated that I wasn’t messaging her back fast enough (I’m guessing), so after like 10 minutes she messaged me “Why won’t you fuck with me!” I was confused. I now believe she was meaning it as a variant of, “I fuck with her,” and she wanted me to interact with her… because she didn’t know that it’s a general mood of being cool with someone and not a specific interaction? It sounds weird even as I type.
@@mollygrace3068 This conjured up an image of you confused and typing back “But girl I do”😂
This dude should be telling you there's no such thing as Standard American English! At least, that's what he told me - I mean, he's wrong, but still, that's what he said.
Well black English is a European dialect but @@kendallwhite7002
ppl misusing black english fr be sounding like starfire
I would be super interested in a book about Black English’s impact on Standard American English. Too many people have this stuffy idea that language is some pure, unchanging, God-given thing that is either right or wrong, and more people need to understand that different dialects or forms of communication are not only perfectly valid, but often influence each other
Thanks! Another issue I see a lot is the treatment of AAE like it’s some qualitatively different thing. It’s a language variety, and we do a tremendous disservice by pretending it’s not a linguistically normal variety that is unique in the ways that all language varieties are
@@languagejones6784 It's inferior, less precise, imperfectly learned and imperfectly used English. Try as you might, you can never make your case. You're just that type of white person. What you're doing is actually racist, but you think it's the opposite of racist.
@@languagejones6784 It's of no value. It's funny how a certain type of white person, well-meaning, maybe, wants to elevate imperfectly learned English. Similar to Singlish, where I can't imagine an American or European learning imperfect Mandarin and mixing it with English because learning the real language is just too hard.
@@languagejones6784 Shouldn't a black linguist write this book? Whitey knows better, I guess.
A study conducted at King's College London determined that over the last 100 years, African Americans are responsible for expanding the English language more than any other group.
The group that has done the most damage to English? Conservative White Americans. Mostly by appropriating words and changing or distorting their accepted meaning, but also by gaslighting and declaring words they couldn't manipulate to their advantage invalid and/or stigmatizing their usage.
What I’m learning from this video is that we don’t think Black English be like it is, but it do.
😂😂
Yes, and lol
fo shizzle
And is 😅😅
Your the speak English type
Facts!
I'm not even American and _I WANT THIS BOOK DESPERATELY._
@@theimaginatrix7625 I’m writing away. Agents have had a hard time seeing the appeal because it doesn’t fit the exact niches a lot of language books or a lot of social science/sociology of race books fill
Why?
@@languagejones6784 The book is gonna be fire, don't worry about the appeal. I'll for sure parade it around my nerd friends
@@languagejones6784 Or, despite not being linguists, they know you're wrong and the book would be an embarrassment.
@@languagejones6784would you consider self publishing if the publishers don’t get it? I’m applying for an MA in literary linguistics, and ultimately I want to do a PhD on how language and literature uphold and dismantle systems of power. I think this would be a great springboard for me to understand black English better (I’m British and our MLE is quite different)
9:45 white boy from white suburbia, but I think I get the nuance? The first I interpret as "you could've gone and been there a while ago". The second feels more "you've had the opportunity to go there this whole time"
Def interested in the book btw!
@@pahko_ you’re the first I’ve seen take a stab at it, and you’ve got it!
very cool! I completely missed with my guess.
That's what I would've guessed too
Exactly what I thought, I think growing up in the South (Deep South they call it Southwest, it’s Texas) as he _veeery_ briefly touched on does help tho tbh cuz this video made a ton of sense
Here's a theory not based on nothing, e.i. based on something. A language used by people heavily involved in trade with speakers of other languages has pressure to simplify and be transparent. It will do so at the cost of compactness and subtlety.
A language used by a group with insular interests will grow in complexity, subtlety and compactness for the benefit (as perceived by the group) of social isolation.
The cockney stall-keeper in a Dickens era London market does not want the police to understand that he is avoiding taxes or dealing in contraband items, for instance.
At the other end, the British upper class was notorious for speaking indistincly a) as a social flex, that is, you have got to pay more attention to me than vice versa, and b) if my command is ambiguous, then I can lay the blame on my subordinate any time it doesn't turn out to my liking and c) "shibboleth" or whatever identifies immediately who has my upbringing and who doesn't.
I teach English as a second language. One standard is all I can teach at a time. Once a student asked me when we were going to cover more African American English, as he was interested in rap lyrics. I was sy.pathetic but stated that it was not part of our program of study.
Code-switching happens all the time, and sometimes it is done so that a third party isn't even aware of the code switch. Think of teenagers planning a beer bash back in the day of one telephone per household.
If one asks about a possible code switch and gets a straightforward explanation, then no problem. But recently, asking for detail about the term "safe and effective" was considered an act of bad faith.
I'm not worried about how "bye, Felicia" was misinterpreted. I'm more concerned about phrases like "follow the science" or "horse de-wormer." These are phrases designed to mislead, and should be named as code switching, because those in the know know exactly what they're doing.
I grew up around folks who spoke Black English (at the time popularly called Ebonics). It was pretty obvious to me from a young age that the people who called it "bad English" were just showing their ignorance. I'm glad you're tackling this issue.
Relatedly, one thing I noticed while studying Latin is that there are actually grammatical constructions in Black English that are doing the same thing that classical highly educated Latin authors were doing, but contemporary Americans were acting like it was unsophisticated. Sigh.
@@BacchusLumen the thing that really blows my mind is when Black folks started naming their kids things like Marcus it just tainted the name for white Americans. The mainstream really hates black folks more than it likes classical antiquity
what kind of grammatical constructions? I've never studied latin, so I'd be interested in what examples might be :o
You're full of shit. English had Latin grammar grafted on to it. "Black English" might, through the inability to learn this more awkward grammar, might be accidentally using an earlier form of English grammar - but it couldn't possibly be anything like Latin.
@@quicksilvertaint An example would be omitting the "to be" verb. For example, it's common to hear something in Black English like, "He crazy!" In Latin this was also common. "Ille insanus est!" would roughly translate to, "He is crazy!" in English. But if you were a native speaker of Latin, even if you were writing for a very sophisticated audience, it would be very common to say, "Ille insanus!" and just omit the "is" from the sentence. Which translates roughly as, "He crazy!" in English.
@@languagejones6784 , I agree with that wholeheartedly, and it's such a common example that it makes the point nicely. Relatedly, there are so many great classical names like Cesar or Marco or Julio or Aurelio that were also more common among my Latino classmates and friends growing up. It seems like there's a small resurgence of classical names among people who see themselves as counter-cultural right now, but it's hard to know if that will grow. Hopefully someday Μάρκος/Marcus will be mainstream again.
Just sitting here wondering why I can't just pay you directly for this book before you've secured a publishing deal. Oh, wait... I can!
Thank you!!!
Save time and flush it down the toilet.
@@DanSmith-j8y save time and flush that negativity down the toilet.
@@Ri-Val You could be a motivation speaker. "Flush that negativity down the toilet!"😅
@@DanSmith-j8y"Wah reality doesn't conform to my preconceived notions about the vernacular of a demographic group I want to believe is inferior to me wahhhh,"
Don't you have a cousin to fondle?
I don’t speak Black English, but I told my African American coworker that I was “about to” fall asleep and she was like, “no! You can’t fall asleep! You’ll get in trouble” and then I said “I’m not gonna fall asleep. I’m about to” and we went back and forth. Then I concluded that “about to” in Black English has an implication of intent, whereas in academic/white English “about to” means on the verge of. So the point is: subtleties, sophistication and RULES!
I mean you said boutta not finna, seems to indicate a desire or need for rest but not intent. Am I wrong here?
@@mikeburris3427 for a lot of people I interact with “finna” is imminent but no longer denotes intent, whereas boutta may denote intent, and tryna always denotes intent, especially around conditionals. “I’m finna fall asleep if he keeps droning on…” is fine, but “I’m *tryna fall asleep…” is semantically marked if not outright ungrammatical. “I’m boutta go to sleep” I would definitely parse as intent, but that may vary regionally
@@DanSmith-j8yHow did you even click on this video if you have this level of bias AND lack of comprehensive skills?
You just told me something new. I always thought that something that was about to happen was going to happen any moment now. So I may have reacted with worry similarly to your coworker if presented with that statement, even though I wouldn't have thought that you intended to fall asleep - just that you probably felt like you couldn't help it. (I'm not a native speaker of English, but I was under the impression that I was pretty fluent)
@@DanSmith-j8y That you think you spouted off a kneeslapper reveals you
I have learned that it is impossible to learn the languages of any group of people you hold contempt for! You cannot speak someone's language if you cannot think of them as your equals, or your peers. Learning a language requires a level of empathy, listening, and learning that racists do not possess. Contempt precludes learning!
You hold racists in contempt, yes? Then what makes you think you can understand them?
@@Name-ps9fxunfortunately being black in America means that you don’t have the option of not interacting with the dominant society and understanding them is literally how black people have survived for these past 5 centuries. No other group of people understand the dominant group and their racist subset more than black people. It’s because of the black person having the greatest genetic potential to erase the phenotypical features of a white person’s offspring when mixing dna with a white person that is at the root of their deep seated hatred of black people.
That's literally where our word for barbarians came from. Greeks looking at those savages living out north of them and saying,
"Those dumdums over there are so stupid. They don't even speak a language, they just say barbarbar over and over. We should call them barbaros because they're so dumb and primitive."
I've said "They don't think it be like it is, but it do" so many times because of it being a meme, but never really thought about what it meant. Blew my mind, so a book about Black English would be amazing!
Guessing: "You coulda been gone there" means "You had an opportunity such that if you took it, you would have already gone there a long time ago by now", and "You been coulda gone there" means "You've had the opportunity to have gone there for a long time now"?
Yeah, this is what I think, too.
Correct!
Please explain the difference to me each way with more words because I’m still confused. Is the first one like, “You had a chance to move last year, remember?” And the second one like, “You’ve had ongoing opportunities over the years to move?”
@@AnaLucia-wy2ii Yes! That's exactly what I meant
@@AnaLucia-wy2iiand also, depending on the context of the conversation. You would be able to tell which one they meant.
Thanks for brining up "They think it don't be like it is, but it do," because back when I was an English teacher I thought about how that sentence is, by standard English grammar, entirely correct save for the fact that "be" is typically a state verb. But when you understand that it doesn't necessarily have to be (plenty of other languages will say this verb as a regular action verb in the present tense), there's basically nothing wrong with it. And as you say, the meaning is entirely clear.
Kozak, as someone who really enjoys your videos, this video comes off as weird and reductive. I am not black but as a mixed person one half of my family talks like this. It is entirely limited to the group that lives in the mainland US. These people have 0 ties to chattel slavery or the evolution of ebonics, yet speak that way. I don't really want to go into ethnic details but I don't see why this is so specifically tied to Black Americans with statements like "over the last 400 years Black Americans" - is the assumption that people mexican americans in compton all speak in a stereotypical vato accent and have no effect on this dialect? If this is the case, why do Black Canadians also speak with AAVE? Are the armenian gangs in compton "speaking black english" ua-cam.com/video/Cu6tnNJ6MQ0/v-deo.html?. I don't see how it is at all specifically tied to black people, either. If an asian person talks like this does this mean they have learned to "talk black" or "act black"? This argument is compelling for people who a) interact mainly with either one group: AAVE or non-AAVE speakers. b) people who do not live in inner-cities. My family from Detroit and family from Philly will have major differences in accent or dialect, but can still speak in this AAVE style. Furthermore, are immigrants having a harder time learning this AAL style versus "proper" English. For my Korean friends who were taught textbook American English as Children, yes, but I've never known this to manifest with immigrants learning ESL upon entering the country. Is this tied to the development of inner-city language in English as a whole? IE are there similar developments in grammar in the UK or Australia? Is it similar to MLE in the UK? I would recommend checking out stuff like Sierra Leone's Krio that is a mix of like 4 languages to form a unified "market" language so people from vastly different groups can interact.
In short, it's really compelling to 100% "white" or 100% "black" people where "whites" speak 100% non AAL and 100% of black people speak in AAL, not accounting for the existence of anything else. Anyways, this comment was actually a smokescreen to demand you release Wehraboos part 2 now
@@DeadEndGoose you seem to be conflating genetic ancestry with language. Armenians in Compton are absolutely speaking Black English, just like there’s a Korean shop owner I know in Harlem who speaks Black English. And your question about Canada incorrectly assumes that they speak AAE (no V necessary in this context), and also ignores the history of Black Canadian English, which is absolutely tied to the history of slavery in the US
@@languagejones6784yeah on rewatching it I think i overreacted to the black american statement. I've been writing a response to a video i saw about the history of korean culture and it's diaspora that has me really annoyed with the american perception of race. I was going to delete my response, but you seem to have not been bothered by it so i'll leave it. Thank you for taking the time to respond
@@DeadEndGoose it’s all good. Americans definitely tend to project our very unique racial concept onto EVERYTHING, so I completely understand where you’re coming from. And there’s more than enough race essentialism, even in linguistics, even among sociolinguists working on AAE, that its not unreasonable to expect it to be a problem in this discussion. Too many sociolinguists are way too light on the socio
be is the habitual
I'm black but I grew up in the suburbs so I had to do a lot of code switching to get by. What I've found is that Black English requires you to listen with empathy to the speaker while classroom English does not. Like, what you didn't even get into with this is how different inflections of the words can also drastically change the meaning of the what is being said. That misunderstanding leads a bunch of ignorant people to believe that black folk are more emotional in our speech but our emotion is literally intertwined with our dialect.
All this is further proof it's inferior and not worth it for anyone to learn. Less precise, much less useful for a foreigner to learn.
I never thought about that until you brought it up, but that makes more sense to me now! Might explain why I had some hiccups growing up with my family!
I never thought about that until you brought it up, but that makes more sense to me now! Might explain why I had some hiccups growing up with my family!
Exactly. A simple phrase like "that's cute" could mean "it isn't cute at all", just as easily as it could mean "it is indeed cute". Inflection plays a major role in our language; it is often overlooked just as often as it is mocked.
That is just sarcasm.
That's not exclusive to AAVE at all.
Well, you won't surprise me since I already knew this is your specialist area. And any American academic with even a passing interest in linguistics has heard the brief summary version of the argument.
But I'm ready to hear the details. Bring it on.
Also ... Way more interesting than grading summer course student papers. . .
Okay. Fun video. It's a shame it sounds essentially impossible to uncover the historical reasons why greater subtlety in tense mood and aspect would have developed in AAVE. That would have been very interesting.
I didn't hear you rule out the hypothesis that it could have developed (and I lack the linguistics vocabulary to put this precisely) as a kind of subcultural in-group speech. The reason this comes to mind for me is simply that there a bit of a history of AAVE showing up in drag culture - in a flattering way, or at least a way that was meant to be flattering. And I've been quietly wondering for years if that's because gay slang and gay dialects like Polari - which DID function as a form of coded in-group speech - recognized in AAVE similar qualities.
That's just a guess. And even if my guess is right, it could be a misperception.
I'm probably reaching.
If you asked non-black drag queens in the 90s who borrowed AAVE, they probably would have said they just picked it up at drag balls - or maybe they'd say they like the imagery of the "strong black woman.".
@@RobespierreThePoof I'm not sure how word use that obscures meaning equals greater subtlety.
The more I learn about AAL, the more I realize how much I don't know. It reminds me of how my husband's Nigerian pidgin is it's own language and not "bad English". The entire topic is fascinating. Thank you for sharing this but of insight
Your husband's Nigerian pidgin is, in fact, bad English.
Nigerian Pidgin is totally different from AAVE. He clearly wasn’t talking about Nigerian Pidgin.
@osiegilbertjr4126 I am very aware that he wasn't speaking of Nigerian pidgin, hence my use of "reminds me of". I was merely pointing to the idea of dialects/languages being their own thing with grammar and rules unto themselves, and not that they are only "bad English". I hope you have a wonderful day 🙂
@@osiegilbertjr4126I think the commenter knows that
@@DanSmith-j8y Seriously? The Nigerian PhD students I hear speaking both in presentations to groups with lots of WASP's and on other occasions to only their fellow West Africans obviously know the difference between Standard and West African (or Nigerian?) English, and seem to code switch just fine, even if I don't understand the West African speech they use.
9:43 basically "you could've been there by now" (like if someone took a wrong turn and added uneccessary time on their trip) and "you could've gone there whenever" (like someone thinking they needed a ticket to get into a venue when they actually didn't)
As someone who read “Eats Shoots and Leaves” like it had a plot and I couldn’t put it down, YES, I want that book.
There's a joke about "The House of Eats Shoots and Leaves" but I can't fully form it
@@redoktopus3047 the title of the book is based on the old joke that starts out “a panda walks into a bar, orders a meal, and then pulls out a gun.” You should be able to find it with that much to go on!
Eats, Shoots & Leaves has its own article on Wikipedia? Wow.
@@nancyreid8729 I know the joke, sorry if i wasn't clear. There is another book called "The House of Leaves" and i was saying that a clever person could make a joke out of that but that I can't
@@redoktopus3047 , ah, I see now! Didn’t get the reference; you’re right, but I can’t do it either.
This video not only has academic rigour, something you can take for granted with Dr. Jones's videos, but it also has great practical utility.
Recent arrivals from Nigeria, Somalia, Mali, Chad etc will want to know which version of English would be appropriate for them to learn. They will have been given much to ponder upon.
Yeah... if they actually want to connect with us Blacks. It's not always the case that they do.
Where's the academic rigour? He makes the claim of superiority but accidentally proves inferiority instead. It's not better in any way, not more efficient, it can't express anything in a more subtle way than standard English - this is just one of that certain type white dude being racist while thinking he's doing the opposite of being racist.
Nice future perfect continuous lol. You could equally say "they boutta have a lot to think about," and it would mean virtually the same thing.
@@sirvaniss '...it would mean virtually the same thing'.....but expressed in a far more sophisticated manner.
Canadian here, but would be interested in the book as well! I recently read a fascinating article on First Nations English, which had a similar development in terms of speakers of different languages being forced into proximity (i.e. in Residential Schools) and the perception of the speakers as lazy and uneducated.
Can you do a series giving lessons in linguistics? i love all these bite-sized bits of info on tense, and how we misuse it as a term in english, etc. but theyre very fast, I'd love a deep dive. also - do a video on australian english!
@@bones9134 I’m planning an intro to linguistics, hopefully for this fall
I'd love a video on Australian English because I like being seen, but mainstream Australian English isn't that different from other commonwealth countries. The various indigenous Englishes would be really cool to learn about, but it might be outside this channel's wheelhouse
@@gillablecam I can't speak much to other Commonwealth countries, but honestly the differences between Australian and American English (or the versions thereof spoken by myself and my wife/in-laws, respectively) are way more numerous and subtle than I picked up on from just listening to Americans on TV. My wife's uncle was recently over for a visit and there were a few occasions where he'd hand me a coffee, I'd say "Cheers," and he'd say it back as though I was making a toast. Took me a little bit to realise that he wasn't interpreting it as thanks.
@@hughcaldwell1034 I'm confused. How does toast factor into it?
@@eugenetswong Sorry -- toast in the sense of people raising or clinking glasses and saying something like "To your good health!" or "To the bride and groom!"
In most English-speaking places I'm aware of, "cheers" is a generic toast, but Australians also use it to mean "thanks" in a way that Americans don't seem to.
That book sounds awesome! It’s an overwhelmingly one-sided battle against us to climb, but I’d love to see more credit given to AAE. Language is a fundamental tool to spread biases and misinformation, so I think having a consolidated educated/academic resource like what you describe would go a long way!
I am very interested in this. Once (a couple of times at different occasions and universities), I gave a presentation about the Evolution of Black English in Pop Music, but some "academics" were not very convinced of what I said because, well, "that is not correct English." I could tell you more about this, but for now, let's say that I am very interested in your book.
I am so interested in your book!! When I was teaching English I constantly fought against linguisitic racism among my colleagues. They never understood why a white guy would care, and I could not make them understand that it was my love of the language that made me challenge their narrow view of it. As far as I am concerned, the more information we have about the various dialects of English, the better our understanding of our own language. Yes, Standard English is an important dialect for students to know, but not at the expense of every other dialect. Standard English is a set of conventions we use to facilitate communication across a wide range of spoken dialects, but it's not the Holy Grail. Thank you for your work.
I'm not an American, not even a native speaker of English, but I'm already looking forward to reading your book!
That book sounds like it'd be interesting
First off, I am BIG interested in your book! Something I’ve noticed since I moved out of state for college is how malleable language is and how the people around you change what your vocabulary or even accent (according to certain friends), so I’d love to read about how standard English as a whole has done the same thing
I would argue that "tryna" *does* mean "trying to", although possibly as a result of the Black English usage being imported in a way that matches the Academic English patterns. But regardless, people where I'm from definitely use "trying to" as a future modal in the same way.
I’d like to see a comparison between AAE and the language of rural back-wooded areas like the Ozarks, for example.
I say this because my natural accent (from the Ozarks) shares a lot of pronunciation and syntax features with AAE, except we are fully rhotic and we don’t quite have the same enunciation.
@@jeremybuckets the version I’m talking about (1) does not entail actually attempting at all, and (2) has no possibility of failure. This is definitely different from the academic norm, but if that’s the usage you’re familiar with, so much the better
@@WestTexasCustomPC there’s some in the academic literature but not nearly enough
@@languagejones6784 all I could ever find was an article about the Saint Louis area specifically and again it focused on the AAE spoken in Saint Louis which isn’t very useful to what I want to know about… I managed to also find an article once about the “Ozarkian English” spoken in Arkansas and how it was likely brought in to the region twice, once from Irish settlers who first settled in the Ozarks, and another import from Irish-American settlers who came in from Appalachia. That article alluded to the use of Irish dialects of English used by indentured servants having an impact on AAE early on, but not much detail was given.
I think there’s a difference between when we use “tryna” as the word itself, vs when we’re saying “trying to”. “Tyna” itself is usually used in reference to a goal, want, or aspiration. This is strange self-analyzing my language like this, cuz now any examples I come up with in my head sound weird. But imma try and make it make sense. If I’m on the phone and my friend says “Girl, i’m tryna move fr” it’s aspirational. We know it’s a desire of theirs to move, but we don’t expect them to be actively looking at apartments. And if they don’t move we don’t say they failed at a task.
If I’m struggling with something on my laptop and somebody ask me what”s wrong, I might say “I’m tryna move this file but…”. That’s just me saying “trying to”. Even when I code switch I keep the little stuff like that, cuz don’t nobody got time to be saying the full “trying to”.
I would love to see a book about Black English. For as much language content I consume on UA-cam (history of languages, how to learn French and Japanese,etc), this is the first time I've seen the version of English I speak within my community broken down in such a wonderful way.
LanguageJones, I've been watching your videos for the past few months now and have come to throughly look forward to whenever you drop new content. Thank you so much for your work and I hope to support you and your book when the time comes.
Brings to mind "yeshivish sprach," a kind of speech used by some Orthodox Jews who have attended institutions of higher religious study, and not necessarily Yiddish speakers. It is English, but peppered with Yiddish, Hebrew, phrases found in the Talmud, using constructions that don't mesh with vernacular English. For example, you would not say, "That is a very bad thing," but rather, "that is a very not nice thing." This reflects the cultural value of emphasizing the positive traits.
Absolutely! There’s a lot of similarities, although a main difference is that nobody just assumes they speak it. They know they don’t understand “rishus cold seltzer” guy because he’s clearly speaking something else…but historically we’ve treated the same thing, just with Wolof and so on, as made up slang (I’m thinking of “hep” and “dig” in particular). And there was also a lot of Black and Jewish crossover in NYC and elsewhere, so one of the most plausible theories for the origin of “copacetic” is that it’s from “kol b’seder.” (This is, IMO unconvincingly, contested).
…I almost forgot while talking about jazz age slang, I wanted to address (lehavdil) “very not nice” because it’s enshrined in the first bracha before the shema, which nearly quotes but doesn’t actually quote tanakh, opting for “who makes shalom and…everything else.” It’s a STRONG cultural force that goes back to chazal at least. That kind of indirectness is distinct from, but kind of “rhymes with” some forms of “signifying”
@@languagejones6784 Mamash, taka, zicher. Moyredig! 😉
I grew up in New Orleans and Lafayette Louisiana. I never thought twice about the way we used various cultural jargon and how much of our lexicon is not used widely outside of the lower south and southeast of Louisiana/ Alabama/Mississippi and Georgia. Until I moved to Houston after college and got a job doing music interviews for a local publication. That's when people mentioned that I sounded black on the phone and they were shocked to find out i was a blonde hair blue eyed white girl. Some felt played and thought that I was being disingenuous by faking this "black English" vernacular whilst setting up the appointments. Until they talked to me gor a bit and realized that is just how anyone raised in the French Quarter talks, regardless of ethnicity.
That was 25yrs ago. Today I try to be more consciously aware of how i speak in professional settings, but talk to me more than 20 min and you're going to hear the NOLA come out. Especially when I'm tired or pissed off.
Thanks for this episode! I discovered your channel relatively recently. I'd love to read your book, particularly since I regret not doing more research on AAVE a few years ago. I studied Applied Linguistics at uni. Keep up the good work!
Definitely would be interested in a book about Black English. I've watched interviews with rappers and hip hop artists who are known for their well-written bars, but I've barely been able to understand what they're saying to their (usually white) interviewer. I'd definitely want to learn more about the concept of how Black English in Hip Hop interacts with the growing white audience and what kind of miscommunications are caused there.
Loved this, and love the Wiz reference. I played in the pit for that show once, so much fun.
And hell yes to the book.
I could not be more excited about your book...this topic is so amazing.
I recognized something meta going on in my conversations with speakers of black english, but all I could figure out to do was sit quietly for an extended period just after conversation, and absorb...something. Not conciously processing, but letting something sink in. It seems progressive over time, like 2nd language acquisition by immersion.
Great video. Am sharing. ❤❤❤
If you want to hear an example of culturally white English, but with the complexiety of Black American slang, check out Lil Peep - Save that shitt. "Formal I can't say that girl, don't tell me you can say that shit. Good example of intercultural exchange.
@@thegnarlyvagabond I’ll check it out!
You are hereby invited to the cookout. Really cool to see a breakdown of African American Vernacular.
I would be interested in this book, especially one that can not only explain the grammatical forms, but like, the linguistic traditions they come from- you mentioned that finna comes from southern black english, and I'd be interested to see if other phrases have region-specific or language specific origins.
You don't even know how fast I would buy that book, Jones. I'm from Atlanta, so I would love to hear some stuff about the interactions between Black and white Englishes in urban settings!!
Definitely would love to see this book.
I’m a white man (27) from Massachusetts. Grew up in central MA, lived in Boston and other bigger cities for a few years, like to think I kept around fairly diverse social groups but who am I to say.
One small thing that stands out to me - one that I can find myself slipping into depending on the context - is the simple “my fault” instead of “sorry” or “my bad” or “excuse me.” You’re walking through the train station and you bump into somebody - “oh, my fault.”
Your book sounds fascinating and I'd love to read it!
Regarding "Ebonics", I'm curious whether you think the Oakland School District could have handled it in a way that might have made acceptance more likely, or would that discussion inevitably have gotten derailed by racism and ignorance? As an Oaklander, it's frustrating to think of all the kids who could have had better learning experiences if the way they spoke had been more respected.
I lived in SF at the time, and the Oakland educators I saw who were interviewed by news programs did a very poor job of explaining what they were doing. I don't remember any of them explaining that AAE is a distinct and highly rule-based variety of English, spoken by millions of Americans, which is just as valid as Schoolmarm English, and just as worthy of study. And that kids in Oakland, of any racial category, would benefit from learning both dialects formally - it would teach them much more about how languages work in general than they'd ever get from learning just one dialect.
I never heard that kind of 30 second sound bite, during the whole controversy. Did I just miss the good interviews? Or did the media only show muddled and incoherent interviews to stir up controversy? I don't know. How much was incompetence in the Oakland School District and how much was in the biases of the news producers? In any case, it was certainly derailed by racism and ignorance.
Also - I knew a teacher who taught in the Oakland School District for decades, and her stories of administrative incompetence were extensive and constant. It may have been that a small, well educated group of teachers who understood linguistics wanted to move in that direction, but some administrators decided to take the credit, and put themselves forward as the public faces of the project - and then messed it up badly because they didn't understand it themselves. That would be SOP for Oakland. The kids in Oakland have some good teachers, but the administration of the school system is mainly incompetent and self serving, unless it has been completely replaced in the last few years.
The effect of "black English" on "standard English" would be a fascinating topic...especially since you claim that we do not notice or acknowledge these effects?? I'm intrigued.
As a foreign learner of English you just cracked open a door to a whole area that I had only a vague idea about. Thanks a lot. I would be interested in reading that book you're preparing, if it's somewhat accessible to the general public that is.
You coulda been gone there: You could have completed going there a long time ago
You been coulda gone there: You have had the opportunity to go there for a long time
I never thought about it that way but at first glance I think you are absolutely right.
He's not right.
Does "sophisticated" have a particular linguistic meaning? You mentioned several times that "AAL" English was more sophisticated (and more complex) than "academic" English. How exactly is that measured? Is it just a feeling that more nuanced concepts can be communicated in fewer words? Or is this some actual linguistic technique you use to measure sophistication? Genuinely curious.
Also, your book sounds interesting. I'd read it.
He's a guilty white guy trying too hard, that's all.
Number of meanings and nuances of a particular phrase. Contextual implications. Etc.
@@theancient1911 The examples he gave don't seem to have that, instead they could easily lead to greater misunderstanding. He did an earlier video interviewing black linguists about this, and one of them said as much - that "we understand each other...most of the time".
@@DanSmith-j8y Isn’t that what sophistication and nuance produce? Possibility of misunderstanding. Let’s take Faulkner for instance-is his writing less sophisticated because it’s difficult to understand or because the complexity and nuance of stream of consciousness creates more opportunities for misunderstanding? You are basically reinforcing the original point-that AAL may be more complex and sophisticated.
@@theancient1911 The Faulkner comparison is nonsensical. What complex ideas he might be dealing with, the language he's using is clear.
I've never read a book about a language's grammar but this sounds really interesting and i will read the hell out of that book.
Can't wait to buy your book! I originally found your channel a couple of years ago when I was trying to become better educated about this very topic. As a white guy in a diverse world, this has helped me eliminate my own unconscious bias on the subject, and enables me to shine a more informed light on the blatant biases of other folks in my life. Thank you so much!
Black English is a real treasure. Non-Americans need this book too for so many reasons.Good luck with the agents and all other middlemen :)
How is it a treasure? It's a less clear way of expressing things we can already express in standard English. What's the point of it?
@@DanSmith-j8yHey, Russian bot!
If you watched the video, there were examples of using less words to express more meanings - how is it "less clesr"? Any language or dialect you don't know is "less clear", to YOU.
So you're asking what's the point of Black pepole having their dialect that has been forming historically for several centuries? That was the queston, right?
@@yakisni How it's less clear is obvious if you watched the video - I did, you didn't.
@@DanSmith-j8y it seems like you only heard the first sentence of this video. The author showed that people can misinterpret Black speech. So again, it is less clear TO YOU (if you are one of those people). And you are not the center of the Universe. But, just like Black people or the Scots, you can speak whatever dialect you want, obviously.
And then you went on to ask "what's the point?" What's the point of what? Of an existing dialect? You are clearly very far from the topic of this channel if you unironically asked this question, after rather clear examples of why Black English is not a joke, but a full-fledged dialect with its own linguistic complexity and richness (hence, the treasure part).
@@yakisni What's the point of learning about it if you're not a linguist. It doesn't have an advantage over standard English, it doesn't have a more sophisticated grammar, it seems to make understanding between people _more_ difficult - and if you watch his earlier video where he interviews black linguists about this, one of them even says that they can understand each other only "most of the time" - so, what's the value? How's it superior? Hm....
Ah! Our video explainer on why African-American English grammar, especially around tense, aspect and mood on verbs, is more complex and sophisticated (yes, I said it) than standard class room English! wonderful
Is African-American English grammar more sophisticated than Mandarin grammar or Arabic grammar?
In terms of Tense, 100%, since any tense marking whatsoever puts it as “more sophisticated tense marking than mandarin” 😂
@@stevencarr4002 Apples and oranges.
@@jemiller226 Perhaps we could compare the sophistication of the grammar with that of Old English, which had a highly developed case system, and even (I believe) 7 extra letters, which are no longer used in Modern English.
@@stevencarr4002 I definitely missed having a case system to refer to while studying Czech (which has 7). I never even studied Latin, so it was a VERY steep learning curve!
I’m black but grew up in a very white neighborhood. This is weird because I can understand both. But this just made me realize that I say some of these phrases without even noticing.
Great break down. Would love to read you book when it's out!
Not only would I love the book but I think it's necessary!
9:44
This was really frustrating to think about, but I'm thinking it's something like this.
You coulda been gone there
You could have left earlier
You been coulda gone there
You were always able to go (since long ago( maybe at some point you actually weren't able, but that ban has been lifted for a long time)
The way that Ebonic phrases have been integrated into larger English dialects, but often as a joke, reminds me of how many American English words borrow from Yiddish. The most famous word is probably "shlep" or "shlong," but my favorite example is the suffix "-nik" found in "beatnik" among others. In Yiddish, it just means a person with that quality or part of that group, but it gained a derogatory meaning in English.
I’m DEFINITELY interested in that book, hope you write it
I'd love the book!
How are you Jones? Are you going to stream this Sunday? I miss your streams 😞
I miss your and everyone's comments during the streams, Zevel. 😂
@@cavenaghi9 Miss you too man :)
That’s the plan!
@@languagejones6784 yay! I'm ecstatic
@@zevelgamer. I need moar practice partners, how can we get in touch?
I am about to start my PhD studies on English Language Education. The study of English and the evolution of how English is adapted into other among communities might be something interesting to look into.
I already loved your channel and content. This made me love it so much more. Lolbs. And I would LOVE to read and support the book.
As a biracial, I enjoyed this topic. I grew up with both sides of me and "code switching" came natural to me. I try to speak "proper White" English with non-native speakers, but I've told some people that if they heard me speaking with my Black kinfolk, they gonna hear a whole nother side of me. It's unfortunate that it's considered improper, cause it's got a unique vibe to it. I've had many people in the past try to tell me to sound "educated" so I can get a job one day. In other words, other people don't like your dialect, so stop that bad habit. On the other hand, the influence of rap music has some people out here trying to speak to me like they Black American, that's cringe...
I would say the difference is that "you coulda been gone there" means it's about an opportunity that the listener might not have known about. Ex. "You coulda been gone there, but you been outta town since they opened". "You been coulda gone there" implies that the listener has known about it, but they just haven't taken action. For example "You been coulda gone to see my new crib, you just ain't asked". (and yes, we tend to pronounce "asked" as "axed")
@@MobbinMic Yes!!! And I love that I could hear the codeswitch in my mind’s ear when you said they gonna hear a whole nother side of you
Write, write, write!!! I am white and I teach elementary students in an urban district. At school I speak a lot of black English, though I’m sure I have a thick white accent. This topic is a huge issue for many educators. There’s that whole Eliza Doolittle thing. Or, should I demand that my students be bilingual at school? And then there’s that whole Will Smith lesson. I want my students to feel proud of who they are and be respected for who they are. This is how you break down systemic racism. Black English needs a real seat at the table. And it is beautiful, sometimes fun, def nuanced and hella sophisticated. We need this book. 😁 please
@@davidclare9868 this is so motivating!!!
I would vote strongly in favor of explicitly teaching both dialects. No one would even question this in a nation with a standard dialect with written form and regional dialects with no official written forms which are actively preserved as part of regional and national heritage.
My favorite example is German - but only because I speak it as a third language. There are many other examples. Some of the regional dialects are practically incomprehensible if you learn "standard German" (Hochdeutsch) and people routinely move in and out of dialect based on who they are speaking to, whether or not they are at work and the formality of the social event.
All of our "concerns" about what to do with AAVE (and who is allowed to speak it) are rooted in class and racial anxieties and cultural politics As with many things in contemporary America ... The answers are actually easy, if we could only stop being so nationally narcissistic and pay attention to the way our friends have been doing things for decades.
I totally agree that Dr. Jones' book has the potential to be an important anti-racist work! However, I think you would be doing a huge disservice to your students if you did not also teach them and encourage them to speak standard English! Even with this (very exciting) book, standard English will still benefit them in the job market for the foreseeable future. 😀
You should just expect them to speak proper English. Very strange that a teacher is required to speak bad English to their students. Bizarre.
I'll be getting a copy of that book as soon as it drops!! Always excited to hear your insight and the topic is extremely interesting
"Tryna" does literally translate to "trying to", like they can be used interchangeably and no one will bat an eye but colloquially, "trying to" means "intending to"
Im EXTREMELY interested in that book! For example, the two phrases, “you coulda been gone there” and “you been coulda gone there” feel VERY different to me, but since I’m definitely not fluent in AAL, I have no idea their precise meanings and I wouldn’t be able to articulate the difference, so I would be super intrigued as to what the exact difference is. It really feels like a completely different language! Like I always translated “tryna” and “trying to,” yet never used it as “attempting to,” which is something I wasn’t even aware of until you brought it up. Suffice it to say, I’d love to learn more about AAL in that book you’re working on.
Why are there such huge differences in grammar , when the differences in grammars between European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese aren't as big?|
There were far more slaves taken to Brazil than to the United States.
The answer is really dark. In Brazil they worked the slaves to death, and it was more profitable to do so and buy new slaves than to keep them alive. They sometimes had to force enslaved people to wear metal masks that prevented them from eating enough dirt to milk themselves. Slavery in the US was brutal, but slavery in Brazil was an entirely other level of brutality.
@@languagejones6784 Sadly, this is shockingly true. I wish it weren't.
But there were still lots of survivors and descendants. There is a reason why people in Brazil look very different from people in Argentina and Uruguay.
Definitely interested in the book ideas you've discussed!
I think we used the "been coulda gone: and "coulda been gone" interchangeably. If I really think about it, both were used for "You could've left already, "be halfway there by now" or "you could be there already." I think it had more to do with the speakers mood and intent. But it's like a lot of expressions in foreign languages that we have adopted in American English, its conveyed by the speaker and understood by the audience. Thanks for this video. Black English was one of the recommended readings my freahman year of college for a modern literature. I still own the book.
Linguists have known this for decades. It’s unfortunate how it’s taken this long to become mainstream.
Why does it take you soooo long to get to the point? I am five minutes in and not a single grammatical comprexity has been discussed.
Self-flagellating rants about slavery before any topic involving black people are a customary ritual for a lot of UA-camrs fancying themselves as being academic.
6:30 there you go.
Yes this isn't good editing.
He's telling origin and history of it first before getting into grammatical details. You can always skip through the video.
@@jordanrodrigues1279 thanks 👍
My beloved Dr. Jones, I so wish I could share this with my own family. They clearly speak many elements of AAE but refuse to acknowledge that it is a real language. Now in my parlance, I’d like to show them this video and give them my ultimate trump card. When we get tired of explaining basic facts, in frustration we may say, “let the White man tell you.” Dr. Jones, I just love your work. I’m learning Spanish and Mandarin and you are teaching me so many elements of linguistics.
This was fun to listen to. Between friends and i we laugh at how we have "home" talk "work talk and "official business" talk AND slang. Yeah man, you hit it right, our thing is really complex and we can tell who's faking it. They B's don't be being! Lol thanks for this! Lol
Could you do a video on the Maine accent? It might not be a very popular topic but I think it's really interesting, for example rs at the ends of words are completely removed (famously, bar harbor is pronounced bah habah) but some Mainers also add an r sound after the a at the end of a word (Elijah comes out as elijer, Emma comes out as emmer) and a whole bunch of other stuff.
It's funny how when you grow up with something, you don't be thinking about the subtlies and nuances. And I'm someone who's always liked breaking down language like this!
I guess because it's so natural for me, and there weren't really any classes or books, I never tried to study it in the same way
My favorite example is the Zulu professor at U Penn who used Black English to teach Zulu, because it has some parallel structures. The local Philadelphia kids who got in on merit got it, and the country club legacy Ivy leaguers were lost. She used “stay” and “be” to teach the habitual in Zulu (which translates literally to “I sit [doing x]”
We desperately need more people who actually speak Black English in linguistics but it’s a really rough path. Barely any Black folks at all, and there’s a saying about kinfolk that comes to mind. It was a racist hazing for ME and I’m not even black, I just be associating with the wrong people.
"I ain't even Black, yo." 😂
I found this interesting on multiple levels apart from learning about subtleties of Black English.
I've always considered that US English speakers have a reduced vocabulary but an overly strict grammar, when compared to other English speaking countries. So it is good to see there is this other language that brings more variety.
Also reminds me of a different issue in Australian English where we heavily depend on context to fill the meaning, so tend to be very good at communicating with non-primary English speakers but hard to be understood by some primary English speakers.
As an Aussie myself, I always put more stock in Semantics over Grammar anyway.
I would love to read your book! I have a small section of my personal home library just for satisfying my language interest/nerdity.
Would definitely be interested in that book. I've always found it interesting the ways that language actually *works*. One of my personal theories is that languages will always try to find a way to "fill in the blanks" on what it doesn't have an "easy" way to do. Every language is missing something, and I think that languages evolve by filling in those blanks with more efficient forms, and it just happens naturally.
I would be very interested in learning more about AAE (has AAVE gone out of use?). As someone who can only speak English, it’s a fascinating way to learn about differences in grammar without having to worry so much about vocabulary.
It's still in use, but only when we need to specifically refer to a vernacular register. Dr. Arthur Spears has pioneered the study of AASE (where the S is for "Standard"; think Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. giving a speech). Otherwise, people say AAE, but honestly, most of the Black folks I know don't identify as "African American" and it seems like it's a euphemism a lot of white people use because they're uncomfortable saying "Black." But nomenclature is a whole morass.
Yes, "a fascinating way to learn about differences in grammar without having to worry so much about vocabulary" is a great way of putting why I am interested in the book, too.
Me speaking fluent Black and still clocking on the video
Definitely interested in the book. Hearing about how the term "finna" came from a universal Southern phrase "fixing to" is interesting. It would be interesting to see if any other grammar or vocabulary in Black American English can be traced back to languages of west Africa or dialects of English in Great Britain or Ireland via the US South.
I am interested in code-switching between SAE and AAE. I was in a club at school and it was mostly black kids, and this black girl said some irregular verb with the -ed ending when it wouldn't use that in SAE (I forget which), and then she corrected herself. Is there a bias to stick to SAE no matter what? Does the reputation of AAE and SAE get internalized within black people? Idk, it would be cool to read about that or similar
Please DO release that book into the light of day, I'm DYING to read it!!!
I’m super interested in a book! I was hooked from the first moment you mentioned it, but now I just really wanna see what happened with the “Bye Felicia” incident sksks
I'm DEFINITELY interested in this book. As a Black American who grew up in a very white area and only went to PWI's, I have heard some pretty cringy uses of AAE and I hate how white people try to gaslight Black people and say it's "just internet slang" 😒
it would be interesting for sure! i'm not black but grew up/live in a majority black city and have adopted a lot of some phrases just because i've been surrounded by black classmates and coworkers my whole life so it's osmosis'd its way into my own vernacular. i definitely don't use it all but i'll give this one a try
you coulda been gone there = why haven't you gone there already
you been coulda gone there = you haven't gone yet and you could have at any point and you haven't so what's the holdup
My main question (before watching the full video) are why would the language develop its own grammer and systematic rules separate from "standard" english, and what purpose did it serve for them to do so.
Secondarily, despite the history being poorly recorded, is their theories about which order the transformation took place and why and how it changed over time using underlying concepts applicable more universally to language evolution broadly?
"You coulda been gone there" places emphasize on "been", with "coulda" as a prefatory quantifier. As in, you could have gone there a long time ago (to the point of already being there for awhile, relative to speaking in the present)
"You been coulda gone there" still places emphasis on "been" but now "coulda" is part of the main operative statement. It's now saying you could have considered going there a long time ago, compared relatively to the present which you are only "now" considering going there.
I'm also curious about the etiology, but he explained in the video the severe unreliability of the historical sources to answer that question.
We are going be left with the same reasons that ANY dialect develops, I'm afraid. 😢
100% here for the book and would absolutely love to see chapters on how PNW AAVE is different from the rest because of our strong influences from the Asian, Native and Norwegian communities over the years and relative low population density compared to the South and East Coast, as well as how Mixed folks have used or not used AAVE. I rarely see us mixed folks as part of the conversation in AAVE and how we code switch compared to other Black folks.
This is an informative video. I grew up in the suburbs of Georgia yet had a strong southern accent learned from my parents. One elementary teacher made fun of the way I spoke and I didn’t understand why. I began changing the way I spoke in high school because friends and teachers couldn’t understand what I was saying. After about five years, I had a better command of English grammar, over-articulated words, reduced vowel enunciation length and avoided colloquialisms. I’m glad I did as that presented more opportunities to me than otherwise. Because of my linguistic adventure, I never make fun of the way people speak and will ask someone to clarify if I can’t understand. Listening connotatively to comprehend is more important and respectful of the speaker than attempting to find fault in their speech. That a person speaks differently doesn’t mean my way is superior, contrarily it signifies that I have more to learn.
First, I love what you’re doing and I would love to read about the more nuanced aspects of AAVE and how it has influenced standard American English.
This is so fascinating! English is my second language, and although I use it every day now with next-to-native fluency I’m always amazed at how much more I can learn about it, and its dialects and cultural diversity
Wow! This is really interesting. I would love to read more about it when your book is published.
I would love to read your book! Particularly as it seems like a very relevant sociological study of the dialect, and as the topic is so wrapped up in American history which I'm also very interested in (I'm from the UK). I find it especially fascinating that the dialect has become standard for so many non-black people, even outside of the US, and still it is often disparaged - or simply not given credit - by many of those same people. Eager to hear updates about it!
30 years ago, my 60ish year old Spanish professor who was white and, I think, from New England, was an international translator (he never revealed the whole scoop on that). He was fascinated by "Ebonics" and described its nuances it much like you. I loved this video!
I think the topic is definitely interesting. As a non native speaker (although pretty close, German is not that different over all), I would also be interested if you have anything to note about the influence on teaching as a second language. I do remember that we were taught the "tense" system with aspect and mood combined and absurd names for all of them, but maybe there are now programs that would teach a wider variety of dialects/sub languages together, and I would be interested to hear if you think that could be more successful.
Write the book. Publishers: publish it. It's interesting, and newly published books don't have to be exactly like ones you have published in the past, We readers are better than that.
I am interested in your book.
Also, if I remembered correctly, both Noam Chomsky and Jonathan Kozol wrote on this subject. I do not know if they covered it in book length. I do remember the "habitual present tense". I think one of them said it is now used everywhere that England used.
Wow, that was most educational! As a non-native English speaker from Europe my only contact with Black English is via social media and TV, and this video opened up a whole new world for me (I'd definitely read your book!) - I even tried to grasp the meaning of "finna" lately (it seems to get a lot of traction these days on Instagram) and now I finally do! And last but not least I'm sure this knowledge will help me be a better translator when Black English speaking character appears in a (comic)book! Thanks!
I’d love to buy your book. I have a lot of friends in an English learner group who ask me questions and I can tell them things sound bad and correct them but can’t tell them why.
I grew up in the "Deep South", so I'm pretty familiar with Black English. What's interesting though, is that I've been an ESL Teacher for the last seven years and sometimes get questions from my students about what they hear from Black English speakers (ie, music, movies, social media). It's tough sometimes because I teach "Standard" American English and don't advise them to copy what they hear. Thanks for shedding more light on this complex topic.
He'd tell you there's no such thing as standard English. Shouldn't foreign speakers be learning the grammatically more sophisticated and nuanced AAVE?!😂
That book sounds really cool! Let us know if we can pre-order or whatever.
Also, you got more videos about this? I would absolutely binge watch a series on Black English.