18:33 I think that for me, the discomfort of people knowing I’m trans might be related to a fear that they stop thinking of me as the gender I present as, and start perceiving me as the gender I transitioned away from - or even if they don’t, it still complicates their understanding of me in a way that might negatively affect the way they treat me.
That is a great point and I can empathize. While I was finishing this video I spoke with a friend and we talked about how the discomfort I’ve struggled with regarding being trans is probably more of a discomfort with how society treats trans people, which I think is an important distinction to make
This is actually why I am apprehensive to tell people I am trans anymore. I am a trans man and at this point of my transition I am rarely misgendered. However any time I have told anyone I am trans they tend to start thinking of me as my assigned gender at birth, fallowed by them starting to misgender me constantly. This is either labeled as a “honest mistake” or the person gets very toxic towards my expression of masculinity, saying things like that I am “obviously trans your (insert body part here) screams you were born female” or I am not “preforming”masculinity right because I act “too feminine to be a man.” It’s like as soon as people know you are trans, the way you express your gender or your physical appearance is put under a microscope. Before these people knew I was trans they had no issue with the way I presented myself as a man, but after it was apparently not good enough. I don’t like that feeling personally, especially with me currently trying to build my confidence as not just a man but in general.
This is totally understandable. I've heard of people who fully passed, and then they came out to people who were allies. The people would accidentally misgender them even though they never did when they thought the person was cis. I think that knowing that someone is trans overwrites the previous identity for a lot of cis people.
Typically, I enjoy talking about my gender and my transition with people in my life, but I still often feel the same way. Especially now that I'm passing consistently, I worry that if I come out to the people who previously saw me as cis, they would start thinking of me differently, wondering things about my body or history. Or analyzing my appearance and behavior for "tells". Somehow, passing has made me more anxious about passing. Before, I just accepted the ambiguity and misgendering in my daily interactions, because I simply wasn't there yet, but now that I've made it, I don't want to lose what I have.
@@kappathefish7171 I’m still really early in my transition. Passing is not a priority for me at this time due to how early I am in the process. However, I am a thinker and enjoy discussing the human psychology behind day to day interactions or cases such as trans individuals like us. Its interesting that the relatively common view that passing doesn’t matter as much even 2-3 years in as people will just be people changes into the other common view that once you consistently pass you cant be misgendered or else something is taken from you. The truth is that most people don’t care and many will just go with their first thought based on visual and auditory information. If someone clocks a trans individual and decides to be rude about it why does it suddenly matter now? The individual in question was fine with it and accepted it as a part of life for years but when they are passing consistently its then treated as if their womanhood can be taken away. I feel this is a fault of primarily the trans community creating terms to be celebrated such as “male-failing” for example, as it creates this idea that to be a successful trans individual you must be so convincing to the few cis people who actively look to tear you down that they dont clock you. The truth is that butch woman and feminine men get called trans and get called awful things related to being trans when they arent so the people looking to tear you down don’t know what to look for if their looking at all. Mist people are just living their lives and don’t pay any mind to anything. Something I like to remember to remind myself about the humans like of attention is the “did you spot the gorilla” video. It just kinda proves the idea that no one is really paying that close attention right in a very ridiculous way. Moral is that being trans should not constitute passing being a requirement and that is on the trans community for promoting by accident. There are many shortcomings in the trans community but I’m only critical because I love the community and wish to see it become better.
It's awesome that I'm here so early, so I think I'll leave a comment. You know what's crazy? Before going on T, the voice of my "internal monologue" sounded jarringly different from my voice in recordings. After T, they sound exactly the same. Transmascs are lucky that we get some "automatic" change due to hormones, though we still have to relearn talking and especially singing, because using your voice feels different after changes.
idk what i am but same! my voice used to be soo high pitched and i secretly trained myself to lower it and now it sounds like my internal monologue :} I'm thinking about being more aware of the way in which i talk as well. It's really nice. I think I'm agender
I conduct a trans choir in Berlin and teach trans people to sing, yet I still, after almost a decade of transitioning, harbour so many negative feelings towards my own. I wish there had been a video like this back when I came out.
@@DreamsoundsVideo We're called Transchor Plänterwald 2022 (or TCP'22 for short) but there's nothing you can find online at this point. We've been rather private for the past two years and in the process of changing that. In case you are (or anyone reading this is) interested in checking us out, lmk
Im trans masc and when i was in middle school, i was somewhat terrified that women's voices got higher in the same way that mens got lower and no one had bother to let me know. I had no idea i was trans or what that was then. I have plenty of thoughts about this but i will leave it at that.
if you hang around people who speak with really "feminine" voices you're a lot more likely to pick those inflections up. It's happened to me and I am not pleased.
@@yuukiiiiilover No, no, no. Don't worry Your voice won't get higher. Their point was that they didn't know that. No, even "female" voices usually lower at puberty. Just not as much as "male" voices. Contraltos (lower voiced women) have significantly lower voices than when they were kids. But even the highest sopranos (higher voiced women) tend to at least have their voice deepen. Hormones can only make your voice get deeper or lower. They can't make it smaller or higher. A lot of trans women wish it would make their voices higher, but it doesn't. You're not screwed. Your voice won't get higher, and may even get lower.
I'm really glad you talked about transmasculine voices in this video too. I'm only 20 minutes in so far but the video has been really amazing, listening to really excellent trans video essays is such a treat
Thank you! Since I admittedly don’t know much about transmasc voice training the specifics was mainly limited to my transfem experiences, but many things I saw about how trans voices are viewed in certain spaces seem to apply to both based on some of the examples I look at. I’d definitely be curious if any transmasc creators can shed a light on some of the things about gender and self actualization I bring up from that perspective!
@@DreamsoundsVideo Even with keeping to the basics, it feels really good to be acknowledged at all haha (kind of a sad commentary on things in a way). I really appreciate you touching on the transmasc side of things and how it isn't an easy 'get passing free' ticket with taking T. I know in every 'my voice on T' compilation I've seen, there's always that phase where the person has access to lower ranges for the first time and it's very apparent they're actively trying to speak with a lower voice than what's naturally comfortable. It's kind of funny and endearing in a way, but it very much shows the way transmascs can also end up hyper aware and self conscious about our voices, even with the edge that T can provide. I know a common joke/complaint is being a +30yo transmasc and then people hear your voice and at best assume you're a teenage boy x_x I'm about 30min into the video right now and everyone singing at the beginning nearly made me cry, even thinking about it is making me tear up haha I also really like how you touched on the way we //type// also being read in gendered ways and how being conscious of that almost feels insane lol I still remember the first time I tried being 'ambiguous' in a game chat online. They'd asked if I was a guy or girl and I said something like 'it is a mystery' and kind of joked around a bit, only to have the 2nd person to come in go 'I mean she's obviously a girl, look at how she types' (haha kill meeee). Even the first person kind of tried to be supportive but still said something like 'Hey, if she doesn't want to say then she doesn't have to say'. This was years ago now but I still remember how like, awkward/annoying/disappointing/embarrassing/upsetting it was. I'm just an expressive person in text tho so I'm not going to change :p Maybe a bit deep in the sauce here, but I really really appreciate you bringing up the transmasc stuff even with wanting to mainly stick to your personal experiences. You bring up Julia Serano in the video (and Whipping Girl specifically) and I feel like she came at things from a similar place but didn't hold out that hand to transmascs like you did. There's been so much discourse in certain circles that hold up her book almost as gospel but don't seem to actually listen to what she's said, there and in further books or blog entries, and have twisted the lack of trans masc inclusion there into some very strange biases against us. I really wish she'd been willing to take that risk to acknowledge trans masc views and experiences back then as I feel like it would have preempted all this (particular) discourse so easily T_T So much of the content we see 'for trans people' is much more often by/for transfems and while no individual is at fault for systematic issues (and I'm sure the reverse can happen with transmascs in smaller communities too), that it Is a systematic thing can get really depressing. So I just really wanted to say thank you for including us, it really means a lot (and sorry for the huge wall of text haha).
In addition to several interviews with Jorgensen, there is a 1985 Documentary called "Paradise is not for sale" on youtube, which Jorgensen is feautured in. She talks candidly about her experiences as a media sensation and about her trans advocacy.
You know what’s so funny? When you started sharing audio of you singing, I thought to myself “oh how lovely, she sounds just like Dreamsounds. Man I miss Dreamsounds, whatever happened to them? I wish they’d come back.” Then I saw your video backlog. I’m so glad you’re back ☺️
“Skid row” being one of the songs you posted to Reddit because you felt unsure is so incredibly poetic. Being stuck in a place that doesn’t Feel right and putting so much effort into the hope that one day you’ll leave that place, mirroring how you (and how I and many others) feel that no matter how much they change, whether it be physically or vocally, they’re still not enough,,, this was such a beautiful video and I’m so grateful that you shared your experience!
Thank you for pointing that out, I honestly didn’t even think of that, but that song being something that provided me comfort during that time of insecurity definitely has a power in retrospect
1:01:52 The way your husband looks at you, before and after your transition, its crystal clear that he loves you so much. It makes my enby heart happy. This was such an introspective and amazing video, thank you so much 🥺
I’m a trans woman and I struggle with my voice too. I have felt insecure about my voice since childhood. Now I’m doing my best with breath exercises and other things. I know I’ll get there someday, I’m just trying my best. Thanks for this video!
Your vulnerability is admirable. The way you put your feelings and profound knowledge into words is so captivating. Your voice is just the icing on that cake!
Hey, I'm a butch agender (afab) person who moved to Germany (Hello, Berlin neighbor! ) from an eastern European country where I really struggled with the extensively imposed gender conforming rule of female looking individuals and I just wanted to say that the part of the video where you started talking in German and said that you realized that you needed to find your voice in a new language actually really hit home. My voice was always something that immediately exposed me whenever i would talk to people no matter how masculine or androgynous I would try to dress and act. I speak 3 languages and I feel like for each one of them I have a different voice I end using, German being one where my voice unfortunately gets a bit higher (to my dysphoric dumbass) and I still struggle with it terribly despite trying to work on changing my voice. Thank you for mentioning that because i had never thought about it to that extent and a light kind of switched on in my head after this! Thank you for this video!
As a person who reluctantly landed on identifying as queer+gay because of masculine body+attraction to males, the Bears part hit more chords than expected... Thank you for sharing about this stage of your life.
before I started T, I was a mezzo-soprano, and with strain and discomfort, I could lower it to an alto. By speaking in a monotone and exaggerating certain aspects of my dialect, I could pass for a prepubescent boy. People saw me as young, delicate, and fragile despite the fact that I was an adult, and they saw this performance as "tomboyish" - it was seen as an affectation, a masculine front that an ultimately feminine person was doing. the inability to create a lower pitch resonance with my vocal system was inevitably seen as female by people who were aware I wasn't a 13yo boy, which only led me to try harder so that maybe I could be perceived as my gender and my age at the same time. after T, these years of trying to sound masculine caused me to drop hard into the stealth zone. I got a job as a welder in a fabrication plant where no one knew I was trans and only one person knew I was queer at all. passing became effectively a non-issue. but it was at this point that I started to feel alienated from my community - I was in a trans support group at the time, but there were very few other post-HRT trans men there, and increasingly I started to feel like people were starting to view me as an outsider, specifically people seemed to start to view me as a cis man until I explicitly mentioned being trans. And that was fine for a while, I mean, I was glad I was passing so well - it was affirming in a way. But one thing about me is that I'm a notorious code-switcher - it's a feature of my region's dialect that certain features are coded to imply socioeconomic class, gender, etc, and speaking in a way that does not match those around you tends to mark you as an outsider, which I think was part of what was making me so uncomfortable in queer spaces. I tend to mirror the dialect features of those around me, including pitch and intonation - I had been mimicking my hypermasc cis coworkers at the metal shop, and no one else in my community sounded like that. But after I quit that job to go back to school, things changed. I was mostly surrounded by women (both cis and trans) and people whose voices had not been affected by T - my major skews heavily female, so I had comparatively few cis male friends, and even fewer post-HRT transmasc friends given that it's hard to access when you're that age so almost all the other trans people at school were pre-HRT. I began to imitate them unconsciously to fit in. My voice started to become more androgynous without my even meaning to, and that isn't just me saying that - people over the phone started occasionally misgendering me, which was unheard of before. complicating matters at this time was also the fact that I went off T for a while, initially because of a combination of executive dysfunction and insurance issues, but this ended up sparking a period of gender questioning. I didn't feel like detransitioning and going back to being a woman, but I was starting to feel lost, like I wasn't really a man, or rather, like the concept of "man" was somehow lacking - like it was a false ideal I could never really reach unless I were cis. A lot of that, I think, was the result of internalized antitransmasculinity - I started to doubt not just my validity as a trans man but the validity of transmasculinity in general. It sounds pretty dark, and in retrospect I think a lot of those thought patterns were extremely unhealthy and transphobic, but the upshot was that I became untethered from trying to conform to binary norms. I started purposely experimenting with my voice. I started trying to push myself back into higher registers - stretching my range and trying to mimic the voices of women I heard, both those around me and those in the media, both trans and cis. My goal was to have as broad a range as possible, so I sang a lot of Queen in my car as well. now I'm effectively at a point where I will unconsciously switch between a stereotypical masculine voice and an androgynous, feminine voice depending who I'm talking to. I'm also finding that this gives me a unique form of affirmation - my voice is a tool I have forged and created wholecloth, it is nothing like what it was before I started and it is not possible to nail it down as anything in particular either. I am whatever I choose to be. I like that, actually.
14:14 Transphobes always go on about "autogynephilia" this and "autogynephilia" that. But what we really need to talk about the former-autoandrophile-turned-straight-trans-woman pipeline. /hj
@@DreamsoundsVideoi can very much relate to the experience, because I went through the same kind of thing. The "i like this in the men i am attracted to, so i must also like it in myself" kind of confusion is something deeply relatable to me, that was a big part of what was holding me up in my transition. I went through many of the stages you described in the video, and your video has been the first time ive heard *my* kind of trans story represented so accurately by a trans content creator on the internet. I have seen so many different kinds of transfemininity, but many of them are not really very relatable to me (especially the trans lesbians). This is the first time I see someone whose story rings so close to home for me. I cried a few times during the video. You also addressed some of the specific forms of internalized transphobia I struggle with, which gave me so much relief. I've had an intense visceral sexual attraction to men for as long as I remember myself (heck, dating back to childhood, before I even knew what sex was and could recognize it as such). I went through a long stage of my life trying to be a bear-ish gay man, went as far as going to a gay sauna. But it all felt so alien, made me so uncomfortable in my own skin, even though at the same time, i knew i was super attracted to it and felt like i *should* have belonged there. Heck, even as I started transitioning, it took me such a long time to process the fact that I actually really wanted (and needed) bottom surgery, because I was fetishizing my penis so much. Autoandrophilia indeed, hehe. ;)
@@inodedentry8887 Sorry you've dealt with a similar type of insecurity with masculinity and gender, I'm glad this video echoed that because truthfully when I was beginning my transition I had never heard anyone articulate that specific type of trans experience either. If I had heard of another trans woman who had been caught up in trying to be a gay bear, maybe I would have recognized my own experience sooner
@@DreamsoundsVideo No need to be sorry for me. Like you said in the video, who we were is part of our journey as trans people, and has shaped us into who we are now. Things that were, once upon a time, traumatic, can lead to something beautiful after we have processed them. I love who I am now, and it looks like you do too. :) Now we get to struggle with the "are we reinforcing white heteronormativity" question ;) :D heh
As a former speech teacher, I used to really hammer home to my students in our listening and critique unit that people put TONS more emotional stock in their voice and words than we ever think we do. I think that for many people who are never forced to think about it, it's taken for granted in such a fundamental level. And like, public speakers/singers/actors take a step up from that to be aware of how much we use voice more intimately. But in general, cis speakers/singers/actors are only toeing the shallows of that idea compared to trans and nb people of any profession. I'm barely nb, but part of what makes me most comfortable with my gender is how much fun I have singing across my range. Occasionally popping up to the top of my range and really owning that femininity in expression is kinda gender affirming if I'm honest, and so does growling down into baritone and bass. I think voice and words are some of the places my gender means the most to me, so I appreciated this video for its honest approach to voice amd gender in history and in your journey. Thanks as always for sharing.
Thank you for sharing your perspective as a former speech teacher! I didn't include this, but I was talking with a friend recently about making this video and said I think the reason voice has been so important to me throughout my transition is because that (in the context of my transition being so much about getting permission to do X and Y) voice was a thing I already fully had the power to change if I wanted to, and that made it feel really liberating despite my struggles with it. I think trans and non-binary people who want to transition are expected to frame it as needing something that your body lacks, but with voice I would say your body already has it, it's just about learning to express yourself differently, at least unless you get vocal feminization surgery or something.
as my voice has gotten deeper with testosterone and a Little voice training, ive actually been watching a lot voice feminization videos cuz i love singing in a higher range and i love the idea of being able to speak both higher and deeper. one of my inspirations is actually... a cover of the vocaloid song "magnet," covered by piko and sekihan (if you know you know) so seeing this pop up on my feed is so wonderful. just knowing that there are people who have similar feelings about their voices is so comforting
absolutely agreed! just getting my voice up to where it used to be before it dropped is an interesting experience. as a singer i want to have both options!
Your tiktok duets are my dream. I'm afab with roughly 2 months of T (I'm no longer on it). I have a complicated relationship with my singing voice and hope to explore singing "both parts." I just started recording myself talk (without adjusting it or anything) and it has helped so much in getting my voice back, however it ends up sounding by the end of my journey. I don't know if I'll go on T again to get a deeper range. Right now I miss my soprano highs with all my heart. Let's keep talking about our complicated gender and vocal journeys ❤
I cant say how much i wanted this kind of video on this topic. Since i realised i was trans i kind of naturally started talking deeper, at least to what i can do in comfort, and i had a kind of fear of sounding feminine. Im not on T and my family sometimes mocks me by also faking a deep voice which kinda hurts, but the wierd thing is i dont feel very disphoric when i record myself. Mentioning how we naturally take on characteristics of people around us made me realise i do that if im trying to sound male. Slightly slurring and frying my voice because thats the archetype i grew in close proximity with. When you talked about your tictok i was so elated. I started trying out acting as a woman for personal projects recently, and wierdly there is enough cognitive dissonance i sound like a totally different person. Its kind of wierd being in this middle space where i dont sound male enough in comparison to singers i emulate but also not female enough that it hurts me mentally if im going through my usual day. I guess in to say candidly, thank you for sharing and documenting the trans experience for the future generations.
I really truly loved this video. I love the way you talked about Candy and Christina. I take a lot of inspiration from old hollywood movies for my own FTM gender expression, and its beautiful to me to see the mirrored feminine version of that. Also, I find it very interesting that the transfemme community has their own specific worries about their voices, when in the FTM online community i hear of other boys worried about 'T voice.' Your videos always move me, and speak to something deep in my soul. Thank you for making them.
I recently watched tamashi's video about her history on youtube, she's a cis woman but she used to put on a different voice for voice overs which caused her to be mocked and made fun of back then. Voices in general are weird, cis and trans people alike find their own voice weird when hearing it in a recording. Even beyond voice training, if you find your voice awkward or you don't like it, it could literally be that hearing your recording is awkward. Your voice is amazing and i love your duets, your feminine voice is sweet and really pleasant, and your deeper voice is cuddly and lovely too. I love that you kept both ❤
Being a cis woman sometimes I want to rip out my throat lol. I hate hearing myself in recordings it makes me cringe so hard. A lot of cis people put on voices, I speak in a way that kind of hurts to sound more feminine. Cis men do the same for masculinity and sound barely audible haha.
kept getting recommended this, but i've watched so many trans voice lesson, and just general more vloggy/casual trans content I wasn't ready to click. This came on autoplay and I loved it. It really resonated with me in so many unexpected ways, not just as a trans girl who was also a gay man. the subjects you explored through media, were media I had engaged with before as well, and your artistic approach to video making is a breath of fresh air. I've gotten so used to the more relaxed content of trans youtube it was great to see someone adding analysis/critique to the scene.
Thanks for the kindness! And sorry your other comment was filtered, sometimes UA-cam arbitrarily filters comments and I can't undo it, not sure why but that's been happening for years.
I get hung up on my voice a lot, and constantly kick myself for being too lazy to do voice training, but really in my life it doesn't always matter. My voice is a baritone, but on multiple occasions I've mentioned I'm trans to people who I'd interacted with a few times (always assuming it was obvious) and they've said they thought I was a cis woman. Granted, this isn't everybody's response, and I know there are plenty of occasions where people see me and then hear my voice, at which point they get confused (let alone those times they hear my voice and misgender me because of it). But overall, I know that there really isn't as far to go as I sometimes think. Especially because when I worked doing telephone surveys, I would still periodically get correctly gendered, and all they had to go with was my voice. But my view of my own voice is, I think, wrapped in some prejudice I've been trying to work through. When I hear trans women's voices, I inherently place more validity on the ones that sound more stereotypically feminine. I think it's tied to pretty privilege, that there's a desire to see people embody all the most feminine aspects, as society sees them. Not a justification, of course. Pretty privilege is not okay, and that's also something I know I need to work on, and I wonder if I'll ever fully free myself of that mentality, but at least I can try to get better. But overall, I'm going to be much slower in seeing myself outside of these standards. Just like I see all the masculinity in myself (maybe even some that isn't there) when I look in the mirror, I often wonder if, in the event I actually get off my butt and start voice training, I'll ever truly be perfectly okay with that aspect of myself.
The main reason I made this video is because after 2 years of voice training I was still suffering from vocal dysmorphia, like, sometimes completely unable to hear my voice differently from when I started, and I wanted to interrogate what exactly that is and hopefully find a more positive way to think about trans voice. I think the process of putting in concerted effort to change yourself brings with it the hyper awareness that you *are* making changes, which for me definitely led to the insecurity of not being able to “turn off” when I knew I was consciously changing my voice, which I inaccurately associated with putting on a costume. But as I describe in the video, I think that wasn’t what was actually happening, because I now see that it was less about putting on a new costume and more about trying to find a way to break out of the costume I was stuck in before. And the shift from “I’m making an effort doing this” to “wow, this expression feels like it really fits me and I’m not thinking about it anymore” is important, but as I’ve shown in this video it is a much more complicated road than I once thought it was, and I still have insecurities. The only thing I’d recommend is trying to enjoy the journey, I know it sounds cheesy, but as I mention me not understanding the beauty of trans experience and taking control of your life led me to some pretty uncomfortable places. Wishing you all the best 💗🏳️⚧️
TL:DR, musing on how I speak in different contexts. Im cis but i find this really interesting. Ive noticed that i talk differently for different people and in different situations. Its also interesting thinking about code switching for two dialects in different contexts and graded language when teaching. Ive noticed that in a more formal situation or customer service setting, my voice is much more high pitches and i also use a more formal vocabulary and bigger words. But when i talk with my friends my voice is much lower and i use more slang and swear a lot but i still tend to use big words. But when I'm teaching i grade my language so less big words, more slang, no swearing and my voice pitch is somewhere in the middle. But actually thinking about it more when I'm with a lot of people i grade my language. I was working with a lot of people and have a few friends who's first language isnt english so i use a less wide vocabulary so that people arent constantly asking me what words mean, it feels really consicending using elaborate words and then explaining them. But then you need to be careful because theres been a few times where I'll hear someone with a strong accent and grade my language without thinking about it but then it turns out they're perfectly fluent, just with a strong accent, so then I end up sounding stupid.
Thank you for uploading this video. My voice is one of the things I’m the most self conscious about with my presentation. I could never afford the vocal coaching and the videos I watch don’t really feel all that helpful for me as someone who can’t sing and hit a note on key to save my life. And it only makes me more self conscious because my voice directly affects how much money I bring to my home. I work in a forward facing sales position where I will sit there for at least 20 minutes guaranteed talking face to face with someone to convince them to buy my product. Every conversation I have with people, I feel hyper aware of the way I sound and I always feel like I’m stumbling through it. The kind of workplace I operate in is one where a lot of other cis women also work. Everyone of them I would say benefits from pretty privilege (tbh, I feel like you have to be conventionally attractive as a woman if you don’t want to struggle double as hard to close with clients), so there are moments when I see these competent women making these big numbers happen and I start feeling self conscious thinking “If I looked pretty like them, would I have been able to close this sale? If I was able to sound as cute and bubbly as they do, would I have been tipped a little more?” And I get this pervasive imposter syndrome where I don’t feel like I’m cut out to be among all these other people who can get by maybe not having to struggle as hard as I have to to match them. And it all just comes down to my voice. Sometimes it’s the end of a 9 hour+ shift and after a day of having conversations and needing to project constantly to make myself heard over loud machinery in the room, I feel my voice and my overall presentation falling apart. I feel the strain on my vocal cords as they just want to stop and rest. I can feel my makeup starting to melt off my face from the day’s sweat. I can see the goddamn 5 o clock shadow piercing through the 3 layers of makeup I applied over my jaw in the morning to make sure I could hide it well. And by the time that moment hits, I feel overcome by how pathetic fighting back against the natural processes in my body God cursed me enough to make me deal with. Maybe one day I’ll be able to be like those other trans women that can afford the coaching and other expensive things that make them pass better. Either way thanks for uploading this. I don’t really know where I’m going with this rant as much as it’s refreshing to feel seen about something I feel only I understand in my personal life. 😓
Theres a few examples of trans musicians who are very "out" with their natural voicws, maybe the most famous is puertorican Villano Antillano, who sings reggaeton with the same cadence and tone as most of the male artists, despite having a very passing female apearence. Instead of seeing it as her conforming to trans stereotypes though, i feel its her empowering and feeling her voice doesnt define her gender. Obviously this isnt something that works for everyone but im glad shes doing that at least, even when i empathize more with your view on this video. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.
I don't see that as conforming to trans stereotypes to be honest, if I did I think someone could easily point out that how I've trained my voice is conforming to stereotypes of femininity, which I think would be missing the point. I did feature people who have decided not to change their voices (like Laura Jane Grace) and also my friend who stopped voice training. I think agency is most important, to be able to live your life the way you want and sound the way you want to, this video was just me working through the complex question of "how do I want to sound?" I will check out Villano Antillano btw, thank you for the recommendation!
I'm a voice therapist that works with transgender clients. I haven't finished the video yet, but I really think this video will be a great recommendation for my clients. Can't wait to hear your thoughts ❤ you already taught me about a documentary that haven't heard of before, and now i definately have to see it!
deciding to go on testosterone took me a long time. one of the main reasons being i was afraid i'd miss my voice. but then listening to trans fems talk about their experiences with their voices i know i don't regret it because i could always find my way back. you specifically were an example in my head of someone with a beautiful voice i could be like.
This is beautiful; thank you for sharing it. I've been putting off watching this since its release. I have my own conflicted feelings, doubts, and anxieties surrounding voice, and it's honestly scary (and exciting) for me to hear such dramatic change as I think things like, "But I can't do that, can I? Can I?". The changes in my voice have been very much a non-linear process as I've put effort towards it since 2020, but have never been able to apply it to my everyday life. Three years of that aren't exactly my fault (not a situation I was permitted to be out in), but even now that I've since moved away I just... I'm so vulnerable when I use a voice other than the one I created. It's like peeling away a suit of armor I've hidden away in to keep myself safe, but the joints have since rusted and I'm now stuck inside. Who am I if not the person people expect me to be?
This is genuinely one of the best videos I have seen. It definitely changed how I look at my voice but also changed how I view some other things in life. I feel like it will have a lasting effect on me and I will be coming back to it every once in a while. Thank you for making this. One of those rare times I am really glad youtube has recommended me something. Also I've been thinking about getting a tattoo for a while but wast sure what I wanted it to be. Feeling pretty confident about "More here than I ever was there" now)
wow this made me cry. thank you so much for sharing marlene!! you spoke to so many inner thoughts, feelings, and experiences i've had but never heard anyone else say out loud. so proud of u, you've found the courage and verbosity to share your journey with such tact and nuance. the good we've sewn is still one of my favorite albums of all time. shout out chelsea goodwill!
This video hurt my soul and made me realize just how much dysphoria i have struggled with for just how long. It is also inspiring me to begin singing again. And also to do some very minor voice training, mostly to find my "natutal voice" that fits me better after 2 years on GAHT. I avoided voice training because I didnt want to lose myself trying to sound like others think I should. Uou have inspired me to listen to my own voice in my head and bring that out in the world, and that I can sing the dong of my heart.
Bringing a different perspective to this really interesting video essay. I'm a 51 yo transfemme (in Bangkok recovering from FFS atm) and only on E for a year. Although I first attempted to transition (socially) at 21, I detransitioned due to family pressure. The dysphoria that I felt about my voice was the feminine sound of it when I was suppressing my identity. Now my dysphoria is about the things I find myself doing in response to masculinity I encounter- in particular, artificially lowering my voice and speaking less in general. So there's been this flip. When suppressing my identity, I avoided my natural voice in favor of an artificially masculine voice. Now that I'm out, I experience cringe when I find myself playing out these old habits from a life of gender repression.
@@DreamsoundsVideo I also wanted to express my appreciation for your wonderful work on these videos. The deep care and thought you bring to them is obvious. It makes me happy to not only hear myself in them, knowing I am not alone, but also the curiosity and joy that is sparked by the differences.
This really is one of the most important videos on trans experiences for me. After coming out two years ago, but being unable to start my medical transition because of the long medical process in the country I live, I have been completely obsessing over my voice. It's like as if my voice was the only thing in my transition I had control over, and with that came immense self scrutiny and hatred. The things you portray in the video greatly resonates with me, and I'm so grateful for you sharing your experiences. It's not easy trying to live life as the you that you want to be, but every step gets us a little closer.
(Stopping the video at about 34:35) Your German Logoped said exactly what I was thinking as soon as you started talking about finding a new German voice. For me, with _both_ English and German are second languages (well, 3rd and 4th), as soon as you started speaking German it sounded vaguely "too high" or "too feminine" to my ears, or maybe just with a slightly more compressed range? I probably wouldn't clock your German voice as male, but I might clock it as non-German, despite no blatant accent (it is actually *very* nice to listen to, if you read the news in German I'd tune in everyday). This is SO interesting, because it points to the fact that what is considered masculine or feminine voice-wise is very dependent on culture and language. (I'm a somewhat autistic cis-woman who every now and then dips into trans-voice youtube because I hope to someday come across a video that talks more about feminine prosody and mannerisms of speech and less about pitch and range. I'm really bad at that stuff myself (and also bad at accents and mimicking), and have been hoping that a trans-perspective would light a few lightbulbs for me.)
what you mentioned about someone finding your album and seeing that you’ve changed, sometimes i find a youtuber or artist i watched/listened to and found out they’re trans and that’s one of my favourite feelings, it reminds me that i’m not alone in this in a way i don’t get from people i find through trans content
I am about a year and a half into my transition (ftm), and I am lucky to have landed a very chill, well paying job at a call center. I basically read all day, watch videos like I am right now, and occasionally actually have to answer a phone call. On the one hand, it feels great to confidently answer a phone with MY name, and be called my name in return by a stranger who cannot see and question me. At the same time, simply based on my voice, I am constantly ma'am'd, and miss'd... im sure the customer service singsong affect we are all trained in doesn't help me. Anyway, just sharing this as I start this video. much love !
When you said "I don't really know" @1:00 i laughed because those four words encapsulate so many things in my life and experiences as well... not just relating to my voice but to my whole being. But being comfortable in the "not really knowing" is good enough for me.
I’m transmasc nonbinary and I’m planning on going on T but I was scared of losing my voice. A year ago I decided I was going to do voice training while starting T, I still haven’t started T (thanks NHS) but this video has made me feel a lot less alone. I’m so excited to explore my own voice(s?) from seeing your journey :)
My voice is naturally androgynous, someone online didn't know if i was a guy or a girl. And i figured out how to make my voice higher and lower pitched more (nice for voice acting/impressions). Im still not hrt but i can't wait to have my voice be deeper.
Just finished the video Marlene! You're so incredibly good at expressing yourself and also expressing the super complex ways it's super complex to express these feelings and experiences you've had. I can't get over your bravery to discuss your transition and no I don't mean that "oh your so brave" line that trans people can condescendingly get from cis people.. lots of love to you you ICON.
I actually found my voice largely through listening to The Velvet Underground, so it's funny that you bring up their stuff in a video about voice training. What I did was I watched two Trans Voice Lessons videos, one for speaking more feminine, and another video that helped me lessen my strain. In one of the videos, she talked about practicing ones singing voice and carrying the singing voice into speech, and as soon as she demonstrated that skill and gave me that idea, I immediately started singing along to the tracks "After Hours" and "I'm Sticking With You" in hopes of replicating Moe Tuckers singing on those tracks because I love those songs and her overall sound. I didn't watch any training videos past this point or really use any additional educational materials. I loved singing, and would replicate female voices while singing along to songs prior to transition, so this method gave me very quick success in the grand scheme of things, as it helped me realize I actually had a massive head start that I took for granted. The transferability of singing skills to speaking skills, while obvious in retrospect, for some reason wasn't completely intuitive to me at first. But once I got it I found my path. I then spent roughly 30 days in my bedroom, mostly entirely alone, only allowing myself to speak when I was voice training. During this period of time I refused to communicate to anybody in anything but whispers or in writing/text. What I was doing was replicating Moe's singing voice as close to perfection as possible (and I got pretty good), and then carrying that singing voice into speech, and then I'd pull out one of the books in my room and start reading it like an audio book to myself. Reading a book out loud was a really good idea in retrospect, as getting through a chapter is a great test of endurance. If my voice couldn't maintain itself for that long, I'd know I needed to adjust something. But yeah, after a straight month of doing almost nothing but that, I started contacting friends and family again and my voice was legitimately completely unrecognizable from what they'd previously had known. I sounded kinda lispy and queer before transition, but at this point there was admittedly no trace of maleness left in my voice, and everyone was extremely curious as to how I was able to perfect it in such a relatively short span of time. And having a background in singing was ultimately the key, as was finding a voice inspiration to work off of as a springboard to find my voice.
I’m so glad to see you talk about your voice training journey. I know a fair amount of trans women and whenever the topic of voice training comes up, I always refer to you as an example of a perfect voice training success. I’ve watched your content for a long time and I’m surprised you can even do your old voice!
I didn't hear ContraPoints in your voice before somebody mentioned it but I can definitely hear a significant similarity when I think of it now. I wonder why and I think it's because there's this softness in your voices (which I suppose is a way to make it sound sound more feminine other than making it sound higher). You also both speak quite fast and slow down significantly with important words/at the ends of sentences. That might just be an aspect of the English language though (or Natalie's accent and the German-ness in your voice) and not necessarily a trans femme voice thing though. But as a trans masculine person, a piece of advice given to us is to speak slower to sound deeper and assuming it works the other way around with trans feminine voices, it might be both. All of that aside, your voice is absolutely beautiful and very nice to listen to!
hi there! i'm transmasculine and was a trained singer all through high school. I'm just about to hit one year on t and relearning my voice has been so weird but also exciting but also frustrating and i just wanted to say this video was so moving and thank you :)
As a trans man who has been watching your channel for a while I really like your voice! Personally I really struggle with voice dysphoria as i am pre T and it definitely increases some of my depersonalization. I’m not sure if you’ll see this but this video made me feel a bit better about my voice so thank you❤
Thank you for this, I have found it both informative and entertaining. I first came across you on TikTok so seeing this video pop up in my feed was a major plus. This is a very important aspect of the trans voice which is seldom spoken about and I wish I had this video at the start of my transition it would have made life much easier in understanding about my voice.
54:31 - I used to teach voice feminization, at a voice modification school called Modulation Institute that is now defunct. I am trans female myself, and have likewise been on a transvoice journey of my own; many in the trans community and beyond know me as having struggled a great deal with my voice. I want to note that one thing I’ve come to incorporate in my vocal processes is seeing & accepting the process of voice feminization as augmentative, more than simply transformative. I still have my baritone and even bass-baritone available to lean into should I seek to. I take from it for my default. But I have also explored so many other registers and tones as well. I think of this all as modificative but also explorative. My speaking voice generally reads as contralto or mezzo but my singing voice can range from contralto (which I admit I use here descriptively to denote a lower female voice with notable androgynous characteristics) to what is called a soprano falcon - a lower or dramatic mezzo voice with a spinto (heavier lyric) soprano extension. Even this latter vocality is not static. It varies in tone as it ascends and descends in pitch. I’m very inspired by the notion of soprano sfogato, often tied in with the concept of assoluta soprano, which essentially is either a contralto or mezzo voice (a lower voice type) capable of extending itself into soprano (higher voice type) territories, or essentially a dramatic coloratura soprano with a very strong chest register - a “dramatic coloratura” itself being a practically useful oxymoron, as “dramatic” implies heft and oscurità (darkness… Dunkelheit) in the tone, whereas coloratura implies delicate agility and brightness, or chiarità (Klarheit) in the tone. [Ich habe gewesen eine Schülerin von vielen Sprachen, und Deutsch, sowie Italienisch, ist ein des Sprachen welches ich hab gewesen nehmen Zeit zu üben. Englisch ist meine Muttersprache, aber ich spreche Französisch mit Fertigkeit zu; Italienisch und Deutsch sind Sprachen dessen ich habe geübt viel und ich kenne manche, mehr mit Italienisch… sie sind meinem Vierten und Fünften Sprachen, lol. Lasst mich wissen ob Sie möchten sprechen mehr im Deutsch, ich könnte benutzen eine andere Deutschsprecherin im mein Leben, haha.] Und zu üben mein Deutsch, ich werde weitermachen im Deutsch :) Wie ich es sehe, Sängern und Sängerinnen wie Maria Callas, Ian Gillan, Geoff Tate, Plácido Domingo, Joan Sutherland, Mariah Carey, Mylène Farmer, Mina Mazzini, Mike Patton, Joni Mitchell (früher), Leyla Gencer, Michael Spyres, Lauritz Melchior, Paul McCartney, Shakira… als diesem Sängern das selbe Phänomen von der Soprano-Sfogato aussagen. Wie du hattest gesagt, unsere Stimmen sind fertig und biegsam, darüberhinaus von der Vokalfächer. Und noch, jede Sänger welche ich hatte angesprochen, hat sein Charakter, sogar sein Fach. Trotzdem, seinem Fertigkeiten im verschieden Farben und Tonumfangen sind mehrfach. Im als Stimmen, aber besonders im Stimmen hoch entwickelt, wir haben die Kapazität zu ändern und umbauen unsere Stimmen. Ja, das ist wahr. Und unsere Stimmen aufnehmen das welche wir es geben, und es lehren. Unsere Stimmen erzählen eine Geschichte. Und obwohl wir können es ändern im sein Primärzustand, und seinen Charakter im Allgemeinen - seiend dass jede Aspekte ist beeinflusst bei die Änderung von mans Stimme - wir im Transvoice brauchen zu verstehen dass unsere Stimmen alles ausnehmen. Seinem Tonen sind eine Tapisserie von alles das wir haben gewesen. Eine Geschlecht-Transition ist ein großartig Änderung zu werden mehr von man selbst, und das ist so reinigend. Aber jede Stimme ist sein eigenes, bei Regel von jede Stimme habend sein eigenes Geschichte. Zu lehnen hinein alles dass wir sind, und zu finden Kraft in dass Tiefe, tja, dass ist innere Kraft. And that’s all I have to say. Thank you so much for this video. I’m probably gonna proofread that like hell now XD.
I've run into cis male guys with very good falsettos that can sound entirely like they are female. Mostly they can only really sound like headvoice, but I remember this one guy on UA-cam who does both parts of "A Whole New World." Anyways, I bring it up because I wonder if you could also explore your M2 register, what is generally called falsetto in males and head voice in females. We mostly speak in M1 or our "chest voice," so it wouldn't be something you'd necessarily train so much for speaking. (Though it can be useful there, too.) And, then there's the mix, which I think may be something all trans women might want to access to be able to lighten their voice while still retaining some chest-voice sound. Heck, I'm pretty sure you're in a mix in your female voice, and not just using a higher larynx. This is something that always fascinated me: how voices can sound male or female, and how it's different in different contexts. It started when I noticed how easily female voice actors play men, but not the other way around, and how I could do my best imitation of a female voice and still sound male. Except one time I accidentally sounded female to my college roommate.
Also, I wanted to say that I'm very impressed that you kept that much of your male voice. It still sounds very good. I had been under the impression that your male voice had to suffer if you wanted to train your female M1 voice. I'm glad to know that isn't true.
At the end of this video I talk specifically about the “A Whole New World” guy, also known as Nick Pitera! Will respond to the rest of your comment later, on my way somewhere right now
@@DreamsoundsVideo Yeah, sorry. I have a habit of commenting before I reach the end of the video. If I had, I'd know you are already using some of your M2 register for those highest notes. You have that whole breathy girly sound down pat. You know, the one that you hear from the ukulele girls. It's very pretty. (You even have some of that high vocal fry, which is HARD. That's one I've seen those trans women who do want a "passing" voice have the most trouble with. It's so easy for it to sound masculine by being either too low or too tight.)
Nick's music is lovely! And thank you for your comments. I do agree with you that how we interpret voice is different based on context. Even as a trans woman, I have noticed how people hear my voice differently when they think of me as cis or trans, and sometimes transphobes thinking I'm a trans man describe my voice differently as well. I think the way we gender voices definitely is similar to the Julia Serano quote I feature in this video, in that gendering isn't a passive observation, but an active thing of projecting one's view of gender onto someone else.
When I started transitioning I worried about having a “trans voice” as I could tell the difference between a lot of cis guys and the trans masc creators I loved who didn’t do vocal training (and were on T). As time went on and I learned about vocal training (it took me an embarrassing long amount of time to learn that was a thing ngl) I learned what I was worried about is often called “T-flop” (the deeper your voice the more extended parts of your throat are, sometimes if your voice drops after puberty your throat won’t extend leading a difference in sound). Even still it took longer to realize there wasn’t a trans voice, that T-flop, although a result of taking T post puberty, was a completely reversible thing that cis men could go through. As an autistic my understanding of gender is skewed, I don’t really feel dysphoria unless someone views me not like me, my body don’t have a gender, and I don’t view the world that way. Even still there were certain things I wanted and understood would get me hated on. It took a long time to understand that I would never appease a transphobe, I’d never be “passing” enough for them. It took even longer to put it into words. I’ve been confident in my transness and skin for a while (my transness has been about four years, three since I discovered the label I use, and my skin has been about a year and drag helped get me there), so when I went into this video I didn’t think I’d make a self discovery, but the part about language struck a chord with me. I’ve been involved in language study for about a year now (what I can in my free time), but I never realized how the way I thought about myself in relation to other languages, especially higher pitched, or silent ones (such as ASL) was influenced by my transness.
I think something else to mention when you said people sound different in vlogs vs videos is that a vlog is often life and a video is a presentation. Like look at vlogbrothers, that is absolutely not how they talk in a conversation. People always have multiple voices. I have a customer service voice, phone voice, tired voice, meeting new people voice, being empowered or confrontational voice. Its incredibly normal for everyone to present in different ways at different times and the voice is one of the main things we can do thay with.
this is such a beautiful video... im still not sure about if im just nonbinary or actually transfem but this is so just beautiful and especially the parts with your singing are just really lovely and emotional and idk im rambling at this point but thank you for this 😭😭
Oh sweetie what a lovely and helpful sharing. Your experience on finding your voice has helped me begin exploring new ways to find mine. I am at the beginning of my exploration and have also been uncomfortable with the forced high range so your approach is inspiring to to me. Thank you for sharing in such a creative and authentic way. 💛
I just wanted to tell you that I am absolutely loving the new direction that you are taking your channel. I love the music, I love the insightful commentary, I love the archival clips, I love the analysis of transness, and I love the heartfelt way that you bring it all together. I have never heard of your channel before, but I am now a subscriber. Thank you for pouring so much of yourself into your videos. Your contributions have really made a mark on me. Thank you!
What a truly fascinating video. Thank you so much for posting this. Every second had me nearly on the verge of tears, and the waterworks always began whenever you sung. Your voice is just... angelic. Despite coming to terms with the fact that I'm trans back in winter 2022, I've made little progress... in my journey of actually feeling comfortable with my identity. Videos by other trans women and trans individuals are weirdly intimidating and I give them this irrational sense of importance whenever I watch them. It's to the point where I can only really watch a few minutes before clicking off. But this video.... was different. I was able to watch the whole thing while being fully immsersed... and what an emotional rollercoaster that was. So thank you again.
You have just become one of my greatest inspirations. To see you transform from this 'bear' to a totally passing woman in both looks and voice (even when singing like an angel) is so uplifting and awesome and gives me hope. Thank you ❤
Heck, even my singing voice sounded childish/childlike. That’s why I haven’t sung in years! I am now currently embracing my singing voice now that I am doing background vocals/drummer for a cover band.
Thank you for making this video! Truly! I cried so many times while watching. Ich bin aktuell am Beginn meiner Transition - im Juni ist mein erster Termin in der Endokrinologie. Im Laufe der letzten Monate habe ich oft über meine Stimme nachgedacht und es hat mich häufig sehr traurig gestimmt. Ich wollte mich nicht in ein Korsett aus Genderollen zwängen, aber dennoch meinen Wunsch nach Femininität nicht leugnen. Zu hören, was mit der Stimme möglich ist, dich singen zu hören und dann auch noch im Duet mit dir selbst... das war magisch. Ich konnte noch nie singen. Töne zu treffen war noch nie meine Stärke. Aber es bestand immer ein tiefes Verlangen in mir danach, genauso zu singen wie du, mit so viel Gefühl und über so ein breites Spektrum. Ich werde mir in den nächsten Wochen Gesangsunterricht nehmen, falls ich hier bei mir transfreundliche Gesangslehrer:innen finde. Dein Video hat mir sehr viel Hoffnung und Zuversicht gegeben! Danke, dass du es gemacht hast
@@DreamsoundsVideo Thanks ^^ I have a small request: would you consider doing a full recording of "The best things in life are free" in this style, like in the video? I keep finding myself coming back only to listen to it, wishing it would be a song I could add to my playlist.
@@Backbeardjack99 Not sure I will do a longer cover of it, but the full cover (without the video clips over the instrumental part) is available to $5+ patrons on my Patreon: www.patreon.com/dreamsounds
immaculate video - also did not expect the stephin merritt/mag fields mention !! I found 69LS when I was 14 and it hit me like a truck ,, I've never thought about my fixation with stephin merritt's voice in relation to being transmasc until now !! thank u, also it must be said u have an immaculate range of voices and fantastic insight 🫡💚
I've always found your voice so soothing, I never knew it took you so much work to find it because it sounded so natural to me. Thank you for being so vulnerable, your videos will undoubtedly help other people who are transitioning 💘 (ps the song at the end reminds me of Sufjan Stevens, I hope that's a compliment to you lol much love)
Thank you so much for this. I'm musical, trans, and I've only just started grappling with my voice in transition. I really benefit from your willingness to share your experiences; as a former baritone, thank you.
I am fairly certain you've shared these photos with us before (the photos of you and your husband at about 1:01:45) but thank you for sharing them with us. It is so pure and beautiful to see how he has looked at you with such deep love all through your transition and through your whole relationship together. It's a lovely reminder that we are who we are, regardless of presentation. We can choose to be more or less authentic, especially with our presentation, but that people can and will truly love us in all seasons of our lives. There's a line in a book that I read to my children regularly called How Do I Love You? by Marion Dane Bauer illustrated by Caroline Jayne Church, the last line is, "I love all that you will be and everything you are." I just love it because that's how I feel about them, and that's how I hope the people I love feel about me. And that is clearly how your husband feels about you. ❤
It’s not true for every person, but the vast majority of the time, I can’t tell the difference between a trans and cis female voice. That’s to say, I understand the differences between typical AMAB and AFAB voices in theory, but in the context of knowing in some capacity that I’m hearing a woman, the part of my brain that would sort her voice into the “male” category is corrected automatically to align with who she expresses herself to be. Now I often can’t tell if a woman on UA-cam or tv is cisgender or not. It wasn’t always that way for me, it was the result of actively adjusting the way I process secondary sex characteristics in relation to gender. I’ve been thinking about how deaf people are encouraged to learn to speak even though signing would be easier, because it’s bot expected that hearing people learn to communicate by signing. I know that most of the time you have to adjust to the requirements of the majority in order to be comfortable, but I also think it’s a little shit to have to bend over backwards because no one puts in the work to hear you properly. Try not to be angry with yourself for not being able to make them.
I think like Julia Serano said, the way we gender voices often is by projecting our own assumptions and it’s basically confirmation bias, as evidenced by the differing quotes referenced in this video about how Christine Jorgensen’s voice sounded. If we actively try to disarm our assumptions, we hear things much differently. How people talk about and respond to my voice also depends on if they know I’m trans and even among well-intentioned people I’ve seen them scrutinize things that wouldn’t be scrutinized if I wasn’t trans. And when some transphobes mistakenly think I am a trans man trying to transition, they try to be mean about it in a way that’s oddly gender affirming
In spite of being a trans woman myself, I've kept my bass-baritone voice, at least for now, and I don't know if I want to change it, but I have trained both sides of my singing voice too; it's really fun! Also, you don't have to be trans to do it. Look up music from Dimash Qudaibergen - easily the best singer of our time, and possibly the best singer of all time. He's that good. I'd suggest starting with Stranger in a Stranger's Land.
This is lovely, thank you for sharing! And such good timing as I work on my own vocal training a couple months into T. Also, it's so funny you recorded Skid Row because I just started practicing it last week along with Grow For Me when I realized I could now play Seymour instead of Audrey!
This is absolutely stunning. Thank you so much for making this. Your song at the end made me tear up but in a happy way ❤ I've been working in a radio station part time for the past two years, the same amount of time as I've been transitioning, and hearing my voice played back all the time has helped me a LOT but I still have a lot of anxiety about singing. But I will never stop practicing and going to open mics and getting better. Thank you for the motivation and for everything you imparted here.
19:03 you don’t ever have to interrogate yourself! not every question needs to be answered. try not to ponder too hard on things that will reveal themselves with time!
This video is really helping me come to terms with my voice post transition (almost a month into transitioning). I haven’t even started with voice training yet but I already had a voice which baritone ranges always felt a bit unnatural. I feel very fortune not having a deep voice to begin with, but that was a bit of a male insecurity before coming out. Much of my story started with a feeling of “going up the correct escalator rather than trying to climb the descending one”. The realization now is also about accepting who I am and getting to know the one who is waiting to be presented to the world from within.
Oh Marlene I parasocially adore you! This video is gonna change people’s lives, I freakin know it. Sending this to a very good friend. Hope you do another show in NYC at some point. Would love to see you perform live.
What a beautiful video essay. My trans voice has always been the biggest sticking point in my transition. I knew I wanted to transition at a very early age and put it off for years because I was so scared I wouldn't like the way my voice changed. I loved my femininity singing and hated it talking, so I did about a year of "masculinizing" vocal therapy. At the end, I decided I wanted to take the leap, and started hormones anyways. Now I'm 2 years on T, and I've been thinking much lately about doing voice therapy again because I miss feeling my full range of gender. I really needed to hear this
I spent two years in the trans voice program at George Washington University with Linda Siegfriedt. It was the most grueling and difficult part of transition. Adjusting to a new voice was not natural to me. It was physically painful. I have hearing loss which didn't help. It took what seemed like forever. But my new voice allowed me to pass in the Cis world in ways that clothes, HRT, and surgery never did. I have never been publicly misgendered since then. I have friends who are visually passable but haven't changed their voice, and they are misgendered daily, constantly. Seeing your video and hearing how you sounded 7 days in is kind of a WTF for me. Why did it take me 2 years in therapy to do that? LOL Early in the video you mention your voice being compared to Contra Points. Trans women are HYPER observant of other people's bodies, looks, voice, etc. in a way that cis people never are. We're expert on these things. So we notice every minutia. Nobody else hears it cause no one else has spent 10k+ hours studying it like trans people have. I think your cadence and upspeak is similar to Contra Points, and that's where some may make the comparison. You also have a small amount of vocal fry, which is similar in some ways to hers, although I think she uses way more vocal fry. When i was doing voice training at GW a big part of it was teaching me to use upspeak. And it's still something that doesn't come natural to me, while vocal fry does. I find myself slipping in and out of upspeak in a code switch way when I am in public vs home. My trans fem friends who were living as "gay men" before transition had upspeak down already. I know a couple of women who had to consciously dial down their upspeak because they were afraid of continuing to have "gay voice," but in reality it was only their internal opinion/view of their voice. To the world they just sounded like women The more recent escalation of transphobia online that you're experiencing is not you, it's a wave of hate is being fueled by fashism and right wing extremism. I very much appreciate your video. Your voice is wonderful to hear. Especially auf deutsch! Great job. Keep up the videos!
I've listened to a couple of your videos now, and until I looked at a section of this one I truly honestly thought Lily Alexandre had made a second channel from how your voice sounds to me
This wasn't wasn't what I was expecting (although I can't remember what I was expecting), but I'm pleasantly surprised nonetheless. Coming out recently as transfem to my friends and family at eighteen years old has been a wild ride, to say the least. I've loved singing my whole life, but refuse to let anyone hear my singing voice because I'm ashamed of it. Hopefully someday I can achieve that voice I imagine in my head. Beautiful video. ❤
I'm not gonna lie, I didn't expect to relate so much to this as someone whos nonbinary, but this was a really good video that I found myself relating to more than I thought I would. Thank you for sharing such a deep, personal video
Came across this while I’m in the middle of coming out all over again, if that makes sense. I came out as non-binary 10 years ago in Montana and just kind of assumed that I would never get to transition the way I wanted to. I now live in a much less conservative state and have access to gender affirming care and I feel like I’m going through the “cleaning house” process you described near the end. This video really opened me up and got me thinking about what I want for myself in brand new ways, so thank you :)
first subscribed for the beautiful blend of queerness and musical analysis-and your current content is just as thoughtful, profound, and beautiful. there’s an odd sense of comfort in all of your videos. every video you make is amazing. really loved this one ♥️
The point about passing is so true! I’m a tiny trans man, and occasionally still get read as female due to my stature… the minute I open my mouth, apologies flood in and I’m gendered correctly from then on. I’d also like to add: I feel like there’s been a bit of a stigma in the trans community towards people who pass and live stealth; there are those of us who don’t always just do it for safety, but that also doesn’t mean it’s inherently internalised transphobia.
I think that's true regarding stealth and passing, which is why I highlighted my friends who view transness as being something they went through, not something they are. I think because of transmedicalists and other exclusionary groups of trans people who think there is a single "correct" way to be trans, the idea of it being something one goes through has an often bad connotation, when throughout history it is just one of the ways that trans people have chosen to describe their experiences. None of the friends I reference are transmedicalists, so I don't want to paint their experience as internalized transphobia when I don't think it is.
I'm leaving a comment even though I'm only about 17 minutes into the video just because I want to increase "engagement" or whatever the algorithm likes, this video is really good so far and the low view count is absolutely criminal. As a trans man on T, I have this weird relationship with my former voice where even though I love my new voice and it feels more like "me", I'm sometimes sad that I can't access that old voice anymore. I can't sing along with everything I once could (musical theater modern tenor roles are just not... Possible dreams anymore lol). The trade was worth it but I have lost something. Listening to trans women use the full range of their voices gives me hope that I have that power at my disposal too, and I have a lot of options for what my voice can sound like even if I can't sound the way I used to.
Everyone's voice is unique. I think yours is very nice. But even if your voice sounded different, it would still be yours...just like my voice is mine. (I genuinely envy your pitch control, btw.)
This is the first of your videos I've ever seen, it just showed up in my recommended... The emotional impact that this video had with me is hard to put into words. It resonated through every cell. I feel like a tuning fork. It struck me with such force, but not in a violent way. I don't really know what to say more than thank you. Thank you for this work. Thank you for making this art
18:33 I think that for me, the discomfort of people knowing I’m trans might be related to a fear that they stop thinking of me as the gender I present as, and start perceiving me as the gender I transitioned away from - or even if they don’t, it still complicates their understanding of me in a way that might negatively affect the way they treat me.
That is a great point and I can empathize. While I was finishing this video I spoke with a friend and we talked about how the discomfort I’ve struggled with regarding being trans is probably more of a discomfort with how society treats trans people, which I think is an important distinction to make
This is actually why I am apprehensive to tell people I am trans anymore. I am a trans man and at this point of my transition I am rarely misgendered. However any time I have told anyone I am trans they tend to start thinking of me as my assigned gender at birth, fallowed by them starting to misgender me constantly. This is either labeled as a “honest mistake” or the person gets very toxic towards my expression of masculinity, saying things like that I am “obviously trans your (insert body part here) screams you were born female” or I am not “preforming”masculinity right because I act “too feminine to be a man.” It’s like as soon as people know you are trans, the way you express your gender or your physical appearance is put under a microscope. Before these people knew I was trans they had no issue with the way I presented myself as a man, but after it was apparently not good enough. I don’t like that feeling personally, especially with me currently trying to build my confidence as not just a man but in general.
This is totally understandable. I've heard of people who fully passed, and then they came out to people who were allies. The people would accidentally misgender them even though they never did when they thought the person was cis. I think that knowing that someone is trans overwrites the previous identity for a lot of cis people.
Typically, I enjoy talking about my gender and my transition with people in my life, but I still often feel the same way. Especially now that I'm passing consistently, I worry that if I come out to the people who previously saw me as cis, they would start thinking of me differently, wondering things about my body or history. Or analyzing my appearance and behavior for "tells". Somehow, passing has made me more anxious about passing. Before, I just accepted the ambiguity and misgendering in my daily interactions, because I simply wasn't there yet, but now that I've made it, I don't want to lose what I have.
@@kappathefish7171 I’m still really early in my transition. Passing is not a priority for me at this time due to how early I am in the process.
However, I am a thinker and enjoy discussing the human psychology behind day to day interactions or cases such as trans individuals like us.
Its interesting that the relatively common view that passing doesn’t matter as much even 2-3 years in as people will just be people changes into the other common view that once you consistently pass you cant be misgendered or else something is taken from you.
The truth is that most people don’t care and many will just go with their first thought based on visual and auditory information.
If someone clocks a trans individual and decides to be rude about it why does it suddenly matter now?
The individual in question was fine with it and accepted it as a part of life for years but when they are passing consistently its then treated as if their womanhood can be taken away.
I feel this is a fault of primarily the trans community creating terms to be celebrated such as “male-failing” for example, as it creates this idea that to be a successful trans individual you must be so convincing to the few cis people who actively look to tear you down that they dont clock you.
The truth is that butch woman and feminine men get called trans and get called awful things related to being trans when they arent so the people looking to tear you down don’t know what to look for if their looking at all. Mist people are just living their lives and don’t pay any mind to anything.
Something I like to remember to remind myself about the humans like of attention is the “did you spot the gorilla” video. It just kinda proves the idea that no one is really paying that close attention right in a very ridiculous way.
Moral is that being trans should not constitute passing being a requirement and that is on the trans community for promoting by accident.
There are many shortcomings in the trans community but I’m only critical because I love the community and wish to see it become better.
We all sound weird if you think about it long enough.
We all ARE weird if we're honest for but a moment. 🎉
cope
I don’t. 🤷🏽♀️
This comment hits really hard after reading it at the beginning of the video and then now, at the end.
Most people have fairly androgynous faces, too
It's awesome that I'm here so early, so I think I'll leave a comment. You know what's crazy? Before going on T, the voice of my "internal monologue" sounded jarringly different from my voice in recordings. After T, they sound exactly the same. Transmascs are lucky that we get some "automatic" change due to hormones, though we still have to relearn talking and especially singing, because using your voice feels different after changes.
That is so interesting about the internal monologue, thanks for sharing!
idk what i am but same! my voice used to be soo high pitched and i secretly trained myself to lower it and now it sounds like my internal monologue :} I'm thinking about being more aware of the way in which i talk as well. It's really nice. I think I'm agender
I'm very jealous. My inner monologue sounds so much nicer than my actual voice.
Avelo, Zoe Bee, and Alexander Avila on the same day!!? I’m eating good today!
The LGBT+ community is winning today!
LET'S GO TRANS RIGHTS, and zoe.
Lily Simpson also posted a long video yesterday and Abigail Thorn just posted the latest Philosophy Tube episode to nebula
Fr fr!!
@@ErisponsibilityGAY PEOPLE ARE WINNING!!!
I conduct a trans choir in Berlin and teach trans people to sing, yet I still, after almost a decade of transitioning, harbour so many negative feelings towards my own. I wish there had been a video like this back when I came out.
Do you mind me asking what the name of your choir is? If you'd rather email it, my email address is on my channel page
@@DreamsoundsVideo We're called Transchor Plänterwald 2022 (or TCP'22 for short) but there's nothing you can find online at this point. We've been rather private for the past two years and in the process of changing that.
In case you are (or anyone reading this is) interested in checking us out, lmk
Cool! Could you email me those details? :)
@@rikaniebangbang omg i would love to hear it! but i understand the need to be private
@@rikaniebangbang aww I wish there was something like that where I live. I'm really glad this exists at all
Im trans masc and when i was in middle school, i was somewhat terrified that women's voices got higher in the same way that mens got lower and no one had bother to let me know. I had no idea i was trans or what that was then.
I have plenty of thoughts about this but i will leave it at that.
if you hang around people who speak with really "feminine" voices you're a lot more likely to pick those inflections up. It's happened to me and I am not pleased.
it gets HIGHER??? are you KIDDING ME??? how did i not know this before, i thought all voices became lower and more mature. as an afab i’m screwed
@@yuukiiiiilover No, no, no. Don't worry Your voice won't get higher. Their point was that they didn't know that.
No, even "female" voices usually lower at puberty. Just not as much as "male" voices. Contraltos (lower voiced women) have significantly lower voices than when they were kids. But even the highest sopranos (higher voiced women) tend to at least have their voice deepen.
Hormones can only make your voice get deeper or lower. They can't make it smaller or higher. A lot of trans women wish it would make their voices higher, but it doesn't.
You're not screwed. Your voice won't get higher, and may even get lower.
I'm really glad you talked about transmasculine voices in this video too. I'm only 20 minutes in so far but the video has been really amazing, listening to really excellent trans video essays is such a treat
Thank you! Since I admittedly don’t know much about transmasc voice training the specifics was mainly limited to my transfem experiences, but many things I saw about how trans voices are viewed in certain spaces seem to apply to both based on some of the examples I look at. I’d definitely be curious if any transmasc creators can shed a light on some of the things about gender and self actualization I bring up from that perspective!
@@DreamsoundsVideo Even with keeping to the basics, it feels really good to be acknowledged at all haha (kind of a sad commentary on things in a way). I really appreciate you touching on the transmasc side of things and how it isn't an easy 'get passing free' ticket with taking T. I know in every 'my voice on T' compilation I've seen, there's always that phase where the person has access to lower ranges for the first time and it's very apparent they're actively trying to speak with a lower voice than what's naturally comfortable. It's kind of funny and endearing in a way, but it very much shows the way transmascs can also end up hyper aware and self conscious about our voices, even with the edge that T can provide. I know a common joke/complaint is being a +30yo transmasc and then people hear your voice and at best assume you're a teenage boy x_x
I'm about 30min into the video right now and everyone singing at the beginning nearly made me cry, even thinking about it is making me tear up haha I also really like how you touched on the way we //type// also being read in gendered ways and how being conscious of that almost feels insane lol I still remember the first time I tried being 'ambiguous' in a game chat online. They'd asked if I was a guy or girl and I said something like 'it is a mystery' and kind of joked around a bit, only to have the 2nd person to come in go 'I mean she's obviously a girl, look at how she types' (haha kill meeee). Even the first person kind of tried to be supportive but still said something like 'Hey, if she doesn't want to say then she doesn't have to say'. This was years ago now but I still remember how like, awkward/annoying/disappointing/embarrassing/upsetting it was. I'm just an expressive person in text tho so I'm not going to change :p
Maybe a bit deep in the sauce here, but I really really appreciate you bringing up the transmasc stuff even with wanting to mainly stick to your personal experiences. You bring up Julia Serano in the video (and Whipping Girl specifically) and I feel like she came at things from a similar place but didn't hold out that hand to transmascs like you did. There's been so much discourse in certain circles that hold up her book almost as gospel but don't seem to actually listen to what she's said, there and in further books or blog entries, and have twisted the lack of trans masc inclusion there into some very strange biases against us. I really wish she'd been willing to take that risk to acknowledge trans masc views and experiences back then as I feel like it would have preempted all this (particular) discourse so easily T_T So much of the content we see 'for trans people' is much more often by/for transfems and while no individual is at fault for systematic issues (and I'm sure the reverse can happen with transmascs in smaller communities too), that it Is a systematic thing can get really depressing. So I just really wanted to say thank you for including us, it really means a lot (and sorry for the huge wall of text haha).
@@DreamsoundsVideo (Update from finishing the video and I absolutely couldn't hold back tears at the final song
I'm not ever a minute into the video and I'm already tearing up. I had no idea there were any recordings of Christine Jorgensen's voice.
SAME HERE!!
there are several interviews of her! I highly recommend them!
There’s a good video of her giving a talk at a college in the 70s here on UA-cam
In addition to several interviews with Jorgensen, there is a 1985 Documentary called "Paradise is not for sale" on youtube, which Jorgensen is feautured in. She talks candidly about her experiences as a media sensation and about her trans advocacy.
You know what’s so funny? When you started sharing audio of you singing, I thought to myself “oh how lovely, she sounds just like Dreamsounds. Man I miss Dreamsounds, whatever happened to them? I wish they’d come back.”
Then I saw your video backlog. I’m so glad you’re back ☺️
“Skid row” being one of the songs you posted to Reddit because you felt unsure is so incredibly poetic. Being stuck in a place that doesn’t Feel right and putting so much effort into the hope that one day you’ll leave that place, mirroring how you (and how I and many others) feel that no matter how much they change, whether it be physically or vocally, they’re still not enough,,,
this was such a beautiful video and I’m so grateful that you shared your experience!
Thank you for pointing that out, I honestly didn’t even think of that, but that song being something that provided me comfort during that time of insecurity definitely has a power in retrospect
1:01:52
The way your husband looks at you, before and after your transition, its crystal clear that he loves you so much. It makes my enby heart happy.
This was such an introspective and amazing video, thank you so much 🥺
I remember your change at some point on Dreamsounds and thought "did you get someone else to do the VO? she sounds great"
Same lmfao
I’m a trans woman and I struggle with my voice too. I have felt insecure about my voice since childhood. Now I’m doing my best with breath exercises and other things. I know I’ll get there someday, I’m just trying my best.
Thanks for this video!
Your vulnerability is admirable. The way you put your feelings and profound knowledge into words is so captivating. Your voice is just the icing on that cake!
Hey, I'm a butch agender (afab) person who moved to Germany (Hello, Berlin neighbor! ) from an eastern European country where I really struggled with the extensively imposed gender conforming rule of female looking individuals and I just wanted to say that the part of the video where you started talking in German and said that you realized that you needed to find your voice in a new language actually really hit home. My voice was always something that immediately exposed me whenever i would talk to people no matter how masculine or androgynous I would try to dress and act. I speak 3 languages and I feel like for each one of them I have a different voice I end using, German being one where my voice unfortunately gets a bit higher (to my dysphoric dumbass) and I still struggle with it terribly despite trying to work on changing my voice.
Thank you for mentioning that because i had never thought about it to that extent and a light kind of switched on in my head after this! Thank you for this video!
As a person who reluctantly landed on identifying as queer+gay because of masculine body+attraction to males, the Bears part hit more chords than expected... Thank you for sharing about this stage of your life.
before I started T, I was a mezzo-soprano, and with strain and discomfort, I could lower it to an alto. By speaking in a monotone and exaggerating certain aspects of my dialect, I could pass for a prepubescent boy. People saw me as young, delicate, and fragile despite the fact that I was an adult, and they saw this performance as "tomboyish" - it was seen as an affectation, a masculine front that an ultimately feminine person was doing. the inability to create a lower pitch resonance with my vocal system was inevitably seen as female by people who were aware I wasn't a 13yo boy, which only led me to try harder so that maybe I could be perceived as my gender and my age at the same time.
after T, these years of trying to sound masculine caused me to drop hard into the stealth zone. I got a job as a welder in a fabrication plant where no one knew I was trans and only one person knew I was queer at all. passing became effectively a non-issue. but it was at this point that I started to feel alienated from my community - I was in a trans support group at the time, but there were very few other post-HRT trans men there, and increasingly I started to feel like people were starting to view me as an outsider, specifically people seemed to start to view me as a cis man until I explicitly mentioned being trans. And that was fine for a while, I mean, I was glad I was passing so well - it was affirming in a way.
But one thing about me is that I'm a notorious code-switcher - it's a feature of my region's dialect that certain features are coded to imply socioeconomic class, gender, etc, and speaking in a way that does not match those around you tends to mark you as an outsider, which I think was part of what was making me so uncomfortable in queer spaces. I tend to mirror the dialect features of those around me, including pitch and intonation - I had been mimicking my hypermasc cis coworkers at the metal shop, and no one else in my community sounded like that.
But after I quit that job to go back to school, things changed. I was mostly surrounded by women (both cis and trans) and people whose voices had not been affected by T - my major skews heavily female, so I had comparatively few cis male friends, and even fewer post-HRT transmasc friends given that it's hard to access when you're that age so almost all the other trans people at school were pre-HRT. I began to imitate them unconsciously to fit in. My voice started to become more androgynous without my even meaning to, and that isn't just me saying that - people over the phone started occasionally misgendering me, which was unheard of before.
complicating matters at this time was also the fact that I went off T for a while, initially because of a combination of executive dysfunction and insurance issues, but this ended up sparking a period of gender questioning. I didn't feel like detransitioning and going back to being a woman, but I was starting to feel lost, like I wasn't really a man, or rather, like the concept of "man" was somehow lacking - like it was a false ideal I could never really reach unless I were cis. A lot of that, I think, was the result of internalized antitransmasculinity - I started to doubt not just my validity as a trans man but the validity of transmasculinity in general. It sounds pretty dark, and in retrospect I think a lot of those thought patterns were extremely unhealthy and transphobic, but the upshot was that I became untethered from trying to conform to binary norms. I started purposely experimenting with my voice. I started trying to push myself back into higher registers - stretching my range and trying to mimic the voices of women I heard, both those around me and those in the media, both trans and cis. My goal was to have as broad a range as possible, so I sang a lot of Queen in my car as well.
now I'm effectively at a point where I will unconsciously switch between a stereotypical masculine voice and an androgynous, feminine voice depending who I'm talking to. I'm also finding that this gives me a unique form of affirmation - my voice is a tool I have forged and created wholecloth, it is nothing like what it was before I started and it is not possible to nail it down as anything in particular either. I am whatever I choose to be. I like that, actually.
14:14 Transphobes always go on about "autogynephilia" this and "autogynephilia" that. But what we really need to talk about the former-autoandrophile-turned-straight-trans-woman pipeline. /hj
One time someone commented “the transition from gay bear to a woman is so wild” and I think about that comment a lot
@@DreamsoundsVideoi can very much relate to the experience, because I went through the same kind of thing. The "i like this in the men i am attracted to, so i must also like it in myself" kind of confusion is something deeply relatable to me, that was a big part of what was holding me up in my transition. I went through many of the stages you described in the video, and your video has been the first time ive heard *my* kind of trans story represented so accurately by a trans content creator on the internet. I have seen so many different kinds of transfemininity, but many of them are not really very relatable to me (especially the trans lesbians). This is the first time I see someone whose story rings so close to home for me. I cried a few times during the video. You also addressed some of the specific forms of internalized transphobia I struggle with, which gave me so much relief.
I've had an intense visceral sexual attraction to men for as long as I remember myself (heck, dating back to childhood, before I even knew what sex was and could recognize it as such). I went through a long stage of my life trying to be a bear-ish gay man, went as far as going to a gay sauna. But it all felt so alien, made me so uncomfortable in my own skin, even though at the same time, i knew i was super attracted to it and felt like i *should* have belonged there. Heck, even as I started transitioning, it took me such a long time to process the fact that I actually really wanted (and needed) bottom surgery, because I was fetishizing my penis so much. Autoandrophilia indeed, hehe. ;)
@@inodedentry8887 Sorry you've dealt with a similar type of insecurity with masculinity and gender, I'm glad this video echoed that because truthfully when I was beginning my transition I had never heard anyone articulate that specific type of trans experience either. If I had heard of another trans woman who had been caught up in trying to be a gay bear, maybe I would have recognized my own experience sooner
@@DreamsoundsVideo No need to be sorry for me. Like you said in the video, who we were is part of our journey as trans people, and has shaped us into who we are now. Things that were, once upon a time, traumatic, can lead to something beautiful after we have processed them. I love who I am now, and it looks like you do too. :)
Now we get to struggle with the "are we reinforcing white heteronormativity" question ;) :D heh
As a former speech teacher, I used to really hammer home to my students in our listening and critique unit that people put TONS more emotional stock in their voice and words than we ever think we do. I think that for many people who are never forced to think about it, it's taken for granted in such a fundamental level. And like, public speakers/singers/actors take a step up from that to be aware of how much we use voice more intimately. But in general, cis speakers/singers/actors are only toeing the shallows of that idea compared to trans and nb people of any profession. I'm barely nb, but part of what makes me most comfortable with my gender is how much fun I have singing across my range. Occasionally popping up to the top of my range and really owning that femininity in expression is kinda gender affirming if I'm honest, and so does growling down into baritone and bass. I think voice and words are some of the places my gender means the most to me, so I appreciated this video for its honest approach to voice amd gender in history and in your journey. Thanks as always for sharing.
Thank you for sharing your perspective as a former speech teacher! I didn't include this, but I was talking with a friend recently about making this video and said I think the reason voice has been so important to me throughout my transition is because that (in the context of my transition being so much about getting permission to do X and Y) voice was a thing I already fully had the power to change if I wanted to, and that made it feel really liberating despite my struggles with it.
I think trans and non-binary people who want to transition are expected to frame it as needing something that your body lacks, but with voice I would say your body already has it, it's just about learning to express yourself differently, at least unless you get vocal feminization surgery or something.
as my voice has gotten deeper with testosterone and a Little voice training, ive actually been watching a lot voice feminization videos cuz i love singing in a higher range and i love the idea of being able to speak both higher and deeper. one of my inspirations is actually... a cover of the vocaloid song "magnet," covered by piko and sekihan (if you know you know) so seeing this pop up on my feed is so wonderful. just knowing that there are people who have similar feelings about their voices is so comforting
YES! I see your vision. I'm also a singer on T motivated by vocaloid lol
Piko is such a goal, that's for sure.
absolutely agreed! just getting my voice up to where it used to be before it dropped is an interesting experience. as a singer i want to have both options!
Your tiktok duets are my dream. I'm afab with roughly 2 months of T (I'm no longer on it). I have a complicated relationship with my singing voice and hope to explore singing "both parts." I just started recording myself talk (without adjusting it or anything) and it has helped so much in getting my voice back, however it ends up sounding by the end of my journey. I don't know if I'll go on T again to get a deeper range. Right now I miss my soprano highs with all my heart. Let's keep talking about our complicated gender and vocal journeys ❤
For anybody curious, I currently ID as bigender/agender with a trans man history.
I cant say how much i wanted this kind of video on this topic.
Since i realised i was trans i kind of naturally started talking deeper, at least to what i can do in comfort, and i had a kind of fear of sounding feminine. Im not on T and my family sometimes mocks me by also faking a deep voice which kinda hurts, but the wierd thing is i dont feel very disphoric when i record myself.
Mentioning how we naturally take on characteristics of people around us made me realise i do that if im trying to sound male. Slightly slurring and frying my voice because thats the archetype i grew in close proximity with.
When you talked about your tictok i was so elated. I started trying out acting as a woman for personal projects recently, and wierdly there is enough cognitive dissonance i sound like a totally different person.
Its kind of wierd being in this middle space where i dont sound male enough in comparison to singers i emulate but also not female enough that it hurts me mentally if im going through my usual day.
I guess in to say candidly, thank you for sharing and documenting the trans experience for the future generations.
I really truly loved this video. I love the way you talked about Candy and Christina. I take a lot of inspiration from old hollywood movies for my own FTM gender expression, and its beautiful to me to see the mirrored feminine version of that. Also, I find it very interesting that the transfemme community has their own specific worries about their voices, when in the FTM online community i hear of other boys worried about 'T voice.' Your videos always move me, and speak to something deep in my soul. Thank you for making them.
You're the only other woman who's articulated my experience with "being gay" and trying to model myself on the men I was attracted to.
I recently watched tamashi's video about her history on youtube, she's a cis woman but she used to put on a different voice for voice overs which caused her to be mocked and made fun of back then. Voices in general are weird, cis and trans people alike find their own voice weird when hearing it in a recording. Even beyond voice training, if you find your voice awkward or you don't like it, it could literally be that hearing your recording is awkward. Your voice is amazing and i love your duets, your feminine voice is sweet and really pleasant, and your deeper voice is cuddly and lovely too. I love that you kept both ❤
Goes by Tama hero now? Wanted to make sure I was thinking of the same video
Being a cis woman sometimes I want to rip out my throat lol. I hate hearing myself in recordings it makes me cringe so hard. A lot of cis people put on voices, I speak in a way that kind of hurts to sound more feminine. Cis men do the same for masculinity and sound barely audible haha.
You brought so much nuance here! - And thank you especially for including the discussion of bilingualism. 🎉🎉🎉
kept getting recommended this, but i've watched so many trans voice lesson, and just general more vloggy/casual trans content I wasn't ready to click. This came on autoplay and I loved it. It really resonated with me in so many unexpected ways, not just as a trans girl who was also a gay man. the subjects you explored through media, were media I had engaged with before as well, and your artistic approach to video making is a breath of fresh air. I've gotten so used to the more relaxed content of trans youtube it was great to see someone adding analysis/critique to the scene.
Thanks for the kindness! And sorry your other comment was filtered, sometimes UA-cam arbitrarily filters comments and I can't undo it, not sure why but that's been happening for years.
I get hung up on my voice a lot, and constantly kick myself for being too lazy to do voice training, but really in my life it doesn't always matter. My voice is a baritone, but on multiple occasions I've mentioned I'm trans to people who I'd interacted with a few times (always assuming it was obvious) and they've said they thought I was a cis woman. Granted, this isn't everybody's response, and I know there are plenty of occasions where people see me and then hear my voice, at which point they get confused (let alone those times they hear my voice and misgender me because of it). But overall, I know that there really isn't as far to go as I sometimes think. Especially because when I worked doing telephone surveys, I would still periodically get correctly gendered, and all they had to go with was my voice.
But my view of my own voice is, I think, wrapped in some prejudice I've been trying to work through. When I hear trans women's voices, I inherently place more validity on the ones that sound more stereotypically feminine. I think it's tied to pretty privilege, that there's a desire to see people embody all the most feminine aspects, as society sees them. Not a justification, of course. Pretty privilege is not okay, and that's also something I know I need to work on, and I wonder if I'll ever fully free myself of that mentality, but at least I can try to get better. But overall, I'm going to be much slower in seeing myself outside of these standards. Just like I see all the masculinity in myself (maybe even some that isn't there) when I look in the mirror, I often wonder if, in the event I actually get off my butt and start voice training, I'll ever truly be perfectly okay with that aspect of myself.
The main reason I made this video is because after 2 years of voice training I was still suffering from vocal dysmorphia, like, sometimes completely unable to hear my voice differently from when I started, and I wanted to interrogate what exactly that is and hopefully find a more positive way to think about trans voice.
I think the process of putting in concerted effort to change yourself brings with it the hyper awareness that you *are* making changes, which for me definitely led to the insecurity of not being able to “turn off” when I knew I was consciously changing my voice, which I inaccurately associated with putting on a costume. But as I describe in the video, I think that wasn’t what was actually happening, because I now see that it was less about putting on a new costume and more about trying to find a way to break out of the costume I was stuck in before.
And the shift from “I’m making an effort doing this” to “wow, this expression feels like it really fits me and I’m not thinking about it anymore” is important, but as I’ve shown in this video it is a much more complicated road than I once thought it was, and I still have insecurities. The only thing I’d recommend is trying to enjoy the journey, I know it sounds cheesy, but as I mention me not understanding the beauty of trans experience and taking control of your life led me to some pretty uncomfortable places. Wishing you all the best 💗🏳️⚧️
TL:DR, musing on how I speak in different contexts.
Im cis but i find this really interesting. Ive noticed that i talk differently for different people and in different situations. Its also interesting thinking about code switching for two dialects in different contexts and graded language when teaching.
Ive noticed that in a more formal situation or customer service setting, my voice is much more high pitches and i also use a more formal vocabulary and bigger words. But when i talk with my friends my voice is much lower and i use more slang and swear a lot but i still tend to use big words. But when I'm teaching i grade my language so less big words, more slang, no swearing and my voice pitch is somewhere in the middle.
But actually thinking about it more when I'm with a lot of people i grade my language. I was working with a lot of people and have a few friends who's first language isnt english so i use a less wide vocabulary so that people arent constantly asking me what words mean, it feels really consicending using elaborate words and then explaining them. But then you need to be careful because theres been a few times where I'll hear someone with a strong accent and grade my language without thinking about it but then it turns out they're perfectly fluent, just with a strong accent, so then I end up sounding stupid.
Thank you for uploading this video. My voice is one of the things I’m the most self conscious about with my presentation. I could never afford the vocal coaching and the videos I watch don’t really feel all that helpful for me as someone who can’t sing and hit a note on key to save my life.
And it only makes me more self conscious because my voice directly affects how much money I bring to my home. I work in a forward facing sales position where I will sit there for at least 20 minutes guaranteed talking face to face with someone to convince them to buy my product. Every conversation I have with people, I feel hyper aware of the way I sound and I always feel like I’m stumbling through it.
The kind of workplace I operate in is one where a lot of other cis women also work. Everyone of them I would say benefits from pretty privilege (tbh, I feel like you have to be conventionally attractive as a woman if you don’t want to struggle double as hard to close with clients), so there are moments when I see these competent women making these big numbers happen and I start feeling self conscious thinking “If I looked pretty like them, would I have been able to close this sale? If I was able to sound as cute and bubbly as they do, would I have been tipped a little more?” And I get this pervasive imposter syndrome where I don’t feel like I’m cut out to be among all these other people who can get by maybe not having to struggle as hard as I have to to match them.
And it all just comes down to my voice. Sometimes it’s the end of a 9 hour+ shift and after a day of having conversations and needing to project constantly to make myself heard over loud machinery in the room, I feel my voice and my overall presentation falling apart. I feel the strain on my vocal cords as they just want to stop and rest. I can feel my makeup starting to melt off my face from the day’s sweat. I can see the goddamn 5 o clock shadow piercing through the 3 layers of makeup I applied over my jaw in the morning to make sure I could hide it well.
And by the time that moment hits, I feel overcome by how pathetic fighting back against the natural processes in my body God cursed me enough to make me deal with. Maybe one day I’ll be able to be like those other trans women that can afford the coaching and other expensive things that make them pass better.
Either way thanks for uploading this. I don’t really know where I’m going with this rant as much as it’s refreshing to feel seen about something I feel only I understand in my personal life. 😓
Theres a few examples of trans musicians who are very "out" with their natural voicws, maybe the most famous is puertorican Villano Antillano, who sings reggaeton with the same cadence and tone as most of the male artists, despite having a very passing female apearence.
Instead of seeing it as her conforming to trans stereotypes though, i feel its her empowering and feeling her voice doesnt define her gender. Obviously this isnt something that works for everyone but im glad shes doing that at least, even when i empathize more with your view on this video. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us.
I don't see that as conforming to trans stereotypes to be honest, if I did I think someone could easily point out that how I've trained my voice is conforming to stereotypes of femininity, which I think would be missing the point. I did feature people who have decided not to change their voices (like Laura Jane Grace) and also my friend who stopped voice training. I think agency is most important, to be able to live your life the way you want and sound the way you want to, this video was just me working through the complex question of "how do I want to sound?"
I will check out Villano Antillano btw, thank you for the recommendation!
Excellent essay. You’re still UA-cam’s best kept secret, but I have faith you’ll blow up in a big way with high quality output like this.
I'm a voice therapist that works with transgender clients.
I haven't finished the video yet, but I really think this video will be a great recommendation for my clients.
Can't wait to hear your thoughts ❤ you already taught me about a documentary that haven't heard of before, and now i definately have to see it!
Just stunning. Thank you for this.
deciding to go on testosterone took me a long time. one of the main reasons being i was afraid i'd miss my voice. but then listening to trans fems talk about their experiences with their voices i know i don't regret it because i could always find my way back. you specifically were an example in my head of someone with a beautiful voice i could be like.
This is beautiful; thank you for sharing it. I've been putting off watching this since its release. I have my own conflicted feelings, doubts, and anxieties surrounding voice, and it's honestly scary (and exciting) for me to hear such dramatic change as I think things like, "But I can't do that, can I? Can I?". The changes in my voice have been very much a non-linear process as I've put effort towards it since 2020, but have never been able to apply it to my everyday life. Three years of that aren't exactly my fault (not a situation I was permitted to be out in), but even now that I've since moved away I just... I'm so vulnerable when I use a voice other than the one I created. It's like peeling away a suit of armor I've hidden away in to keep myself safe, but the joints have since rusted and I'm now stuck inside. Who am I if not the person people expect me to be?
This is genuinely one of the best videos I have seen. It definitely changed how I look at my voice but also changed how I view some other things in life. I feel like it will have a lasting effect on me and I will be coming back to it every once in a while. Thank you for making this. One of those rare times I am really glad youtube has recommended me something.
Also I've been thinking about getting a tattoo for a while but wast sure what I wanted it to be. Feeling pretty confident about "More here than I ever was there" now)
wow this made me cry. thank you so much for sharing marlene!! you spoke to so many inner thoughts, feelings, and experiences i've had but never heard anyone else say out loud. so proud of u, you've found the courage and verbosity to share your journey with such tact and nuance. the good we've sewn is still one of my favorite albums of all time. shout out chelsea goodwill!
Thank you so much, Rose 💗
This video hurt my soul and made me realize just how much dysphoria i have struggled with for just how long. It is also inspiring me to begin singing again. And also to do some very minor voice training, mostly to find my "natutal voice" that fits me better after 2 years on GAHT. I avoided voice training because I didnt want to lose myself trying to sound like others think I should. Uou have inspired me to listen to my own voice in my head and bring that out in the world, and that I can sing the dong of my heart.
You really showed off how deeply personal and touching both video essays and music can be. This was a beautiful piece of you.
Bringing a different perspective to this really interesting video essay. I'm a 51 yo transfemme (in Bangkok recovering from FFS atm) and only on E for a year. Although I first attempted to transition (socially) at 21, I detransitioned due to family pressure. The dysphoria that I felt about my voice was the feminine sound of it when I was suppressing my identity. Now my dysphoria is about the things I find myself doing in response to masculinity I encounter- in particular, artificially lowering my voice and speaking less in general. So there's been this flip. When suppressing my identity, I avoided my natural voice in favor of an artificially masculine voice. Now that I'm out, I experience cringe when I find myself playing out these old habits from a life of gender repression.
Thank you for sharing your perspective
@@DreamsoundsVideo I also wanted to express my appreciation for your wonderful work on these videos. The deep care and thought you bring to them is obvious. It makes me happy to not only hear myself in them, knowing I am not alone, but also the curiosity and joy that is sparked by the differences.
This really is one of the most important videos on trans experiences for me. After coming out two years ago, but being unable to start my medical transition because of the long medical process in the country I live, I have been completely obsessing over my voice. It's like as if my voice was the only thing in my transition I had control over, and with that came immense self scrutiny and hatred. The things you portray in the video greatly resonates with me, and I'm so grateful for you sharing your experiences.
It's not easy trying to live life as the you that you want to be, but every step gets us a little closer.
(Stopping the video at about 34:35) Your German Logoped said exactly what I was thinking as soon as you started talking about finding a new German voice.
For me, with _both_ English and German are second languages (well, 3rd and 4th), as soon as you started speaking German it sounded vaguely "too high" or "too feminine" to my ears, or maybe just with a slightly more compressed range?
I probably wouldn't clock your German voice as male, but I might clock it as non-German, despite no blatant accent (it is actually *very* nice to listen to, if you read the news in German I'd tune in everyday).
This is SO interesting, because it points to the fact that what is considered masculine or feminine voice-wise is very dependent on culture and language.
(I'm a somewhat autistic cis-woman who every now and then dips into trans-voice youtube because I hope to someday come across a video that talks more about feminine prosody and mannerisms of speech and less about pitch and range. I'm really bad at that stuff myself (and also bad at accents and mimicking), and have been hoping that a trans-perspective would light a few lightbulbs for me.)
what you mentioned about someone finding your album and seeing that you’ve changed, sometimes i find a youtuber or artist i watched/listened to and found out they’re trans and that’s one of my favourite feelings, it reminds me that i’m not alone in this in a way i don’t get from people i find through trans content
I am about a year and a half into my transition (ftm), and I am lucky to have landed a very chill, well paying job at a call center. I basically read all day, watch videos like I am right now, and occasionally actually have to answer a phone call. On the one hand, it feels great to confidently answer a phone with MY name, and be called my name in return by a stranger who cannot see and question me. At the same time, simply based on my voice, I am constantly ma'am'd, and miss'd... im sure the customer service singsong affect we are all trained in doesn't help me. Anyway, just sharing this as I start this video. much love !
When you said "I don't really know" @1:00 i laughed because those four words encapsulate so many things in my life and experiences as well... not just relating to my voice but to my whole being. But being comfortable in the "not really knowing" is good enough for me.
I’m transmasc nonbinary and I’m planning on going on T but I was scared of losing my voice. A year ago I decided I was going to do voice training while starting T, I still haven’t started T (thanks NHS) but this video has made me feel a lot less alone. I’m so excited to explore my own voice(s?) from seeing your journey :)
My voice is naturally androgynous, someone online didn't know if i was a guy or a girl. And i figured out how to make my voice higher and lower pitched more (nice for voice acting/impressions).
Im still not hrt but i can't wait to have my voice be deeper.
Just finished the video Marlene! You're so incredibly good at expressing yourself and also expressing the super complex ways it's super complex to express these feelings and experiences you've had. I can't get over your bravery to discuss your transition and no I don't mean that "oh your so brave" line that trans people can condescendingly get from cis people.. lots of love to you you ICON.
I actually found my voice largely through listening to The Velvet Underground, so it's funny that you bring up their stuff in a video about voice training.
What I did was I watched two Trans Voice Lessons videos, one for speaking more feminine, and another video that helped me lessen my strain. In one of the videos, she talked about practicing ones singing voice and carrying the singing voice into speech, and as soon as she demonstrated that skill and gave me that idea, I immediately started singing along to the tracks "After Hours" and "I'm Sticking With You" in hopes of replicating Moe Tuckers singing on those tracks because I love those songs and her overall sound. I didn't watch any training videos past this point or really use any additional educational materials. I loved singing, and would replicate female voices while singing along to songs prior to transition, so this method gave me very quick success in the grand scheme of things, as it helped me realize I actually had a massive head start that I took for granted. The transferability of singing skills to speaking skills, while obvious in retrospect, for some reason wasn't completely intuitive to me at first. But once I got it I found my path.
I then spent roughly 30 days in my bedroom, mostly entirely alone, only allowing myself to speak when I was voice training. During this period of time I refused to communicate to anybody in anything but whispers or in writing/text. What I was doing was replicating Moe's singing voice as close to perfection as possible (and I got pretty good), and then carrying that singing voice into speech, and then I'd pull out one of the books in my room and start reading it like an audio book to myself. Reading a book out loud was a really good idea in retrospect, as getting through a chapter is a great test of endurance. If my voice couldn't maintain itself for that long, I'd know I needed to adjust something.
But yeah, after a straight month of doing almost nothing but that, I started contacting friends and family again and my voice was legitimately completely unrecognizable from what they'd previously had known. I sounded kinda lispy and queer before transition, but at this point there was admittedly no trace of maleness left in my voice, and everyone was extremely curious as to how I was able to perfect it in such a relatively short span of time. And having a background in singing was ultimately the key, as was finding a voice inspiration to work off of as a springboard to find my voice.
I’m so glad to see you talk about your voice training journey. I know a fair amount of trans women and whenever the topic of voice training comes up, I always refer to you as an example of a perfect voice training success. I’ve watched your content for a long time and I’m surprised you can even do your old voice!
I didn't hear ContraPoints in your voice before somebody mentioned it but I can definitely hear a significant similarity when I think of it now. I wonder why and I think it's because there's this softness in your voices (which I suppose is a way to make it sound sound more feminine other than making it sound higher).
You also both speak quite fast and slow down significantly with important words/at the ends of sentences. That might just be an aspect of the English language though (or Natalie's accent and the German-ness in your voice) and not necessarily a trans femme voice thing though. But as a trans masculine person, a piece of advice given to us is to speak slower to sound deeper and assuming it works the other way around with trans feminine voices, it might be both.
All of that aside, your voice is absolutely beautiful and very nice to listen to!
hi there! i'm transmasculine and was a trained singer all through high school. I'm just about to hit one year on t and relearning my voice has been so weird but also exciting but also frustrating and i just wanted to say this video was so moving and thank you :)
As a trans man who has been watching your channel for a while I really like your voice! Personally I really struggle with voice dysphoria as i am pre T and it definitely increases some of my depersonalization. I’m not sure if you’ll see this but this video made me feel a bit better about my voice so thank you❤
Thank you for this, I have found it both informative and entertaining. I first came across you on TikTok so seeing this video pop up in my feed was a major plus. This is a very important aspect of the trans voice which is seldom spoken about and I wish I had this video at the start of my transition it would have made life much easier in understanding about my voice.
54:31 - I used to teach voice feminization, at a voice modification school called Modulation Institute that is now defunct. I am trans female myself, and have likewise been on a transvoice journey of my own; many in the trans community and beyond know me as having struggled a great deal with my voice. I want to note that one thing I’ve come to incorporate in my vocal processes is seeing & accepting the process of voice feminization as augmentative, more than simply transformative. I still have my baritone and even bass-baritone available to lean into should I seek to. I take from it for my default. But I have also explored so many other registers and tones as well. I think of this all as modificative but also explorative. My speaking voice generally reads as contralto or mezzo but my singing voice can range from contralto (which I admit I use here descriptively to denote a lower female voice with notable androgynous characteristics) to what is called a soprano falcon - a lower or dramatic mezzo voice with a spinto (heavier lyric) soprano extension. Even this latter vocality is not static. It varies in tone as it ascends and descends in pitch. I’m very inspired by the notion of soprano sfogato, often tied in with the concept of assoluta soprano, which essentially is either a contralto or mezzo voice (a lower voice type) capable of extending itself into soprano (higher voice type) territories, or essentially a dramatic coloratura soprano with a very strong chest register - a “dramatic coloratura” itself being a practically useful oxymoron, as “dramatic” implies heft and oscurità (darkness… Dunkelheit) in the tone, whereas coloratura implies delicate agility and brightness, or chiarità (Klarheit) in the tone.
[Ich habe gewesen eine Schülerin von vielen Sprachen, und Deutsch, sowie Italienisch, ist ein des Sprachen welches ich hab gewesen nehmen Zeit zu üben. Englisch ist meine Muttersprache, aber ich spreche Französisch mit Fertigkeit zu; Italienisch und Deutsch sind Sprachen dessen ich habe geübt viel und ich kenne manche, mehr mit Italienisch… sie sind meinem Vierten und Fünften Sprachen, lol. Lasst mich wissen ob Sie möchten sprechen mehr im Deutsch, ich könnte benutzen eine andere Deutschsprecherin im mein Leben, haha.]
Und zu üben mein Deutsch, ich werde weitermachen im Deutsch :) Wie ich es sehe, Sängern und Sängerinnen wie Maria Callas, Ian Gillan, Geoff Tate, Plácido Domingo, Joan Sutherland, Mariah Carey, Mylène Farmer, Mina Mazzini, Mike Patton, Joni Mitchell (früher), Leyla Gencer, Michael Spyres, Lauritz Melchior, Paul McCartney, Shakira… als diesem Sängern das selbe Phänomen von der Soprano-Sfogato aussagen. Wie du hattest gesagt, unsere Stimmen sind fertig und biegsam, darüberhinaus von der Vokalfächer. Und noch, jede Sänger welche ich hatte angesprochen, hat sein Charakter, sogar sein Fach. Trotzdem, seinem Fertigkeiten im verschieden Farben und Tonumfangen sind mehrfach. Im als Stimmen, aber besonders im Stimmen hoch entwickelt, wir haben die Kapazität zu ändern und umbauen unsere Stimmen. Ja, das ist wahr. Und unsere Stimmen aufnehmen das welche wir es geben, und es lehren.
Unsere Stimmen erzählen eine Geschichte. Und obwohl wir können es ändern im sein Primärzustand, und seinen Charakter im Allgemeinen - seiend dass jede Aspekte ist beeinflusst bei die Änderung von mans Stimme - wir im Transvoice brauchen zu verstehen dass unsere Stimmen alles ausnehmen. Seinem Tonen sind eine Tapisserie von alles das wir haben gewesen. Eine Geschlecht-Transition ist ein großartig Änderung zu werden mehr von man selbst, und das ist so reinigend. Aber jede Stimme ist sein eigenes, bei Regel von jede Stimme habend sein eigenes Geschichte. Zu lehnen hinein alles dass wir sind, und zu finden Kraft in dass Tiefe, tja, dass ist innere Kraft.
And that’s all I have to say. Thank you so much for this video. I’m probably gonna proofread that like hell now XD.
I've run into cis male guys with very good falsettos that can sound entirely like they are female. Mostly they can only really sound like headvoice, but I remember this one guy on UA-cam who does both parts of "A Whole New World."
Anyways, I bring it up because I wonder if you could also explore your M2 register, what is generally called falsetto in males and head voice in females. We mostly speak in M1 or our "chest voice," so it wouldn't be something you'd necessarily train so much for speaking. (Though it can be useful there, too.)
And, then there's the mix, which I think may be something all trans women might want to access to be able to lighten their voice while still retaining some chest-voice sound. Heck, I'm pretty sure you're in a mix in your female voice, and not just using a higher larynx.
This is something that always fascinated me: how voices can sound male or female, and how it's different in different contexts. It started when I noticed how easily female voice actors play men, but not the other way around, and how I could do my best imitation of a female voice and still sound male. Except one time I accidentally sounded female to my college roommate.
Also, I wanted to say that I'm very impressed that you kept that much of your male voice. It still sounds very good. I had been under the impression that your male voice had to suffer if you wanted to train your female M1 voice. I'm glad to know that isn't true.
At the end of this video I talk specifically about the “A Whole New World” guy, also known as Nick Pitera! Will respond to the rest of your comment later, on my way somewhere right now
@@DreamsoundsVideo Yeah, sorry. I have a habit of commenting before I reach the end of the video.
If I had, I'd know you are already using some of your M2 register for those highest notes. You have that whole breathy girly sound down pat. You know, the one that you hear from the ukulele girls.
It's very pretty.
(You even have some of that high vocal fry, which is HARD. That's one I've seen those trans women who do want a "passing" voice have the most trouble with. It's so easy for it to sound masculine by being either too low or too tight.)
@@DreamsoundsVideo Oh, and thank you for Nick's name. It was nice to find him.
Nick's music is lovely! And thank you for your comments. I do agree with you that how we interpret voice is different based on context. Even as a trans woman, I have noticed how people hear my voice differently when they think of me as cis or trans, and sometimes transphobes thinking I'm a trans man describe my voice differently as well. I think the way we gender voices definitely is similar to the Julia Serano quote I feature in this video, in that gendering isn't a passive observation, but an active thing of projecting one's view of gender onto someone else.
I LOVE all the clips you included of voices from historical trans figures. it makes them feel so real and close to home.
When I started transitioning I worried about having a “trans voice” as I could tell the difference between a lot of cis guys and the trans masc creators I loved who didn’t do vocal training (and were on T). As time went on and I learned about vocal training (it took me an embarrassing long amount of time to learn that was a thing ngl) I learned what I was worried about is often called “T-flop” (the deeper your voice the more extended parts of your throat are, sometimes if your voice drops after puberty your throat won’t extend leading a difference in sound). Even still it took longer to realize there wasn’t a trans voice, that T-flop, although a result of taking T post puberty, was a completely reversible thing that cis men could go through. As an autistic my understanding of gender is skewed, I don’t really feel dysphoria unless someone views me not like me, my body don’t have a gender, and I don’t view the world that way. Even still there were certain things I wanted and understood would get me hated on. It took a long time to understand that I would never appease a transphobe, I’d never be “passing” enough for them. It took even longer to put it into words. I’ve been confident in my transness and skin for a while (my transness has been about four years, three since I discovered the label I use, and my skin has been about a year and drag helped get me there), so when I went into this video I didn’t think I’d make a self discovery, but the part about language struck a chord with me. I’ve been involved in language study for about a year now (what I can in my free time), but I never realized how the way I thought about myself in relation to other languages, especially higher pitched, or silent ones (such as ASL) was influenced by my transness.
This was the first video essay that made me cry. Thanks for sharing all this and to do it in such beautiful way
I think something else to mention when you said people sound different in vlogs vs videos is that a vlog is often life and a video is a presentation. Like look at vlogbrothers, that is absolutely not how they talk in a conversation. People always have multiple voices. I have a customer service voice, phone voice, tired voice, meeting new people voice, being empowered or confrontational voice. Its incredibly normal for everyone to present in different ways at different times and the voice is one of the main things we can do thay with.
this is such a beautiful video... im still not sure about if im just nonbinary or actually transfem but this is so just beautiful and especially the parts with your singing are just really lovely and emotional and idk im rambling at this point but thank you for this 😭😭
I just wanted to say this is amazingly produced!! I love the music sm :D
Oh sweetie what a lovely and helpful sharing. Your experience on finding your voice has helped me begin exploring new ways to find mine. I am at the beginning of my exploration and have also been uncomfortable with the forced high range so your approach is inspiring to to me. Thank you for sharing in such a creative and authentic way. 💛
I just wanted to tell you that I am absolutely loving the new direction that you are taking your channel. I love the music, I love the insightful commentary, I love the archival clips, I love the analysis of transness, and I love the heartfelt way that you bring it all together. I have never heard of your channel before, but I am now a subscriber. Thank you for pouring so much of yourself into your videos. Your contributions have really made a mark on me. Thank you!
What a truly fascinating video. Thank you so much for posting this. Every second had me nearly on the verge of tears, and the waterworks always began whenever you sung. Your voice is just... angelic. Despite coming to terms with the fact that I'm trans back in winter 2022, I've made little progress... in my journey of actually feeling comfortable with my identity. Videos by other trans women and trans individuals are weirdly intimidating and I give them this irrational sense of importance whenever I watch them. It's to the point where I can only really watch a few minutes before clicking off. But this video.... was different. I was able to watch the whole thing while being fully immsersed... and what an emotional rollercoaster that was. So thank you again.
You have just become one of my greatest inspirations. To see you transform from this 'bear' to a totally passing woman in both looks and voice (even when singing like an angel) is so uplifting and awesome and gives me hope. Thank you ❤
Heck, even my singing voice sounded childish/childlike. That’s why I haven’t sung in years! I am now currently embracing my singing voice now that I am doing background vocals/drummer for a cover band.
This is one of the most beautiful youtube videos I've ever watched
Thank you for making this video! Truly!
I cried so many times while watching.
Ich bin aktuell am Beginn meiner Transition - im Juni ist mein erster Termin in der Endokrinologie. Im Laufe der letzten Monate habe ich oft über meine Stimme nachgedacht und es hat mich häufig sehr traurig gestimmt. Ich wollte mich nicht in ein Korsett aus Genderollen zwängen, aber dennoch meinen Wunsch nach Femininität nicht leugnen.
Zu hören, was mit der Stimme möglich ist, dich singen zu hören und dann auch noch im Duet mit dir selbst... das war magisch.
Ich konnte noch nie singen. Töne zu treffen war noch nie meine Stärke. Aber es bestand immer ein tiefes Verlangen in mir danach, genauso zu singen wie du, mit so viel Gefühl und über so ein breites Spektrum. Ich werde mir in den nächsten Wochen Gesangsunterricht nehmen, falls ich hier bei mir transfreundliche Gesangslehrer:innen finde.
Dein Video hat mir sehr viel Hoffnung und Zuversicht gegeben! Danke, dass du es gemacht hast
Hey, alles gute mit den Endo-Termin und ich hoffe, dass du bald eine:r transfreundliche:r Gesangslehrer:in finden kannst :)
@@DreamsoundsVideo Thanks ^^
I have a small request: would you consider doing a full recording of "The best things in life are free" in this style, like in the video? I keep finding myself coming back only to listen to it, wishing it would be a song I could add to my playlist.
@@Backbeardjack99 Not sure I will do a longer cover of it, but the full cover (without the video clips over the instrumental part) is available to $5+ patrons on my Patreon: www.patreon.com/dreamsounds
immaculate video - also did not expect the stephin merritt/mag fields mention !! I found 69LS when I was 14 and it hit me like a truck ,, I've never thought about my fixation with stephin merritt's voice in relation to being transmasc until now !! thank u, also it must be said u have an immaculate range of voices and fantastic insight 🫡💚
I've always found your voice so soothing, I never knew it took you so much work to find it because it sounded so natural to me.
Thank you for being so vulnerable, your videos will undoubtedly help other people who are transitioning 💘
(ps the song at the end reminds me of Sufjan Stevens, I hope that's a compliment to you lol much love)
Thank you so much for this. I'm musical, trans, and I've only just started grappling with my voice in transition. I really benefit from your willingness to share your experiences; as a former baritone, thank you.
I am fairly certain you've shared these photos with us before (the photos of you and your husband at about 1:01:45) but thank you for sharing them with us. It is so pure and beautiful to see how he has looked at you with such deep love all through your transition and through your whole relationship together.
It's a lovely reminder that we are who we are, regardless of presentation. We can choose to be more or less authentic, especially with our presentation, but that people can and will truly love us in all seasons of our lives.
There's a line in a book that I read to my children regularly called How Do I Love You? by Marion Dane Bauer illustrated by Caroline Jayne Church, the last line is, "I love all that you will be and everything you are." I just love it because that's how I feel about them, and that's how I hope the people I love feel about me. And that is clearly how your husband feels about you. ❤
This is actually so emotional and I’m really thankful for this video. It made me cry at times. I am starting hrt very soon and I’m a little terrified
It’s not true for every person, but the vast majority of the time, I can’t tell the difference between a trans and cis female voice. That’s to say, I understand the differences between typical AMAB and AFAB voices in theory, but in the context of knowing in some capacity that I’m hearing a woman, the part of my brain that would sort her voice into the “male” category is corrected automatically to align with who she expresses herself to be. Now I often can’t tell if a woman on UA-cam or tv is cisgender or not. It wasn’t always that way for me, it was the result of actively adjusting the way I process secondary sex characteristics in relation to gender. I’ve been thinking about how deaf people are encouraged to learn to speak even though signing would be easier, because it’s bot expected that hearing people learn to communicate by signing. I know that most of the time you have to adjust to the requirements of the majority in order to be comfortable, but I also think it’s a little shit to have to bend over backwards because no one puts in the work to hear you properly. Try not to be angry with yourself for not being able to make them.
I think like Julia Serano said, the way we gender voices often is by projecting our own assumptions and it’s basically confirmation bias, as evidenced by the differing quotes referenced in this video about how Christine Jorgensen’s voice sounded. If we actively try to disarm our assumptions, we hear things much differently.
How people talk about and respond to my voice also depends on if they know I’m trans and even among well-intentioned people I’ve seen them scrutinize things that wouldn’t be scrutinized if I wasn’t trans. And when some transphobes mistakenly think I am a trans man trying to transition, they try to be mean about it in a way that’s oddly gender affirming
In spite of being a trans woman myself, I've kept my bass-baritone voice, at least for now, and I don't know if I want to change it, but I have trained both sides of my singing voice too; it's really fun!
Also, you don't have to be trans to do it. Look up music from Dimash Qudaibergen - easily the best singer of our time, and possibly the best singer of all time. He's that good. I'd suggest starting with Stranger in a Stranger's Land.
This is lovely, thank you for sharing! And such good timing as I work on my own vocal training a couple months into T. Also, it's so funny you recorded Skid Row because I just started practicing it last week along with Grow For Me when I realized I could now play Seymour instead of Audrey!
What an incredibly artistic, refletive and insightful video!! Your score and editing were wonderful as well
This is absolutely stunning. Thank you so much for making this. Your song at the end made me tear up but in a happy way ❤
I've been working in a radio station part time for the past two years, the same amount of time as I've been transitioning, and hearing my voice played back all the time has helped me a LOT but I still have a lot of anxiety about singing. But I will never stop practicing and going to open mics and getting better. Thank you for the motivation and for everything you imparted here.
19:03 you don’t ever have to interrogate yourself! not every question needs to be answered. try not to ponder too hard on things that will reveal themselves with time!
This video is really helping me come to terms with my voice post transition (almost a month into transitioning). I haven’t even started with voice training yet but I already had a voice which baritone ranges always felt a bit unnatural. I feel very fortune not having a deep voice to begin with, but that was a bit of a male insecurity before coming out. Much of my story started with a feeling of “going up the correct escalator rather than trying to climb the descending one”. The realization now is also about accepting who I am and getting to know the one who is waiting to be presented to the world from within.
I'm finally starting my transition at 23, and as I wait to get HRT, this video has made me fell seen in a way I didn't realize I needed.
Wishing you all the best with your transition! 🏳️⚧️
@@DreamsoundsVideo thank you! I feel the best I've ever felt already :) I'm excited for the future :)
Oh Marlene I parasocially adore you! This video is gonna change people’s lives, I freakin know it. Sending this to a very good friend.
Hope you do another show in NYC at some point. Would love to see you perform live.
What a beautiful video essay. My trans voice has always been the biggest sticking point in my transition. I knew I wanted to transition at a very early age and put it off for years because I was so scared I wouldn't like the way my voice changed. I loved my femininity singing and hated it talking, so I did about a year of "masculinizing" vocal therapy. At the end, I decided I wanted to take the leap, and started hormones anyways. Now I'm 2 years on T, and I've been thinking much lately about doing voice therapy again because I miss feeling my full range of gender. I really needed to hear this
Goosebumps when I hear you singing Ramona
recently found your videos and nearly all of it speaks directly to my soul please keep speaking 💖
I am late to the party but what a wonderful video ! Thank you for your work, insights and overall presence.
I spent two years in the trans voice program at George Washington University with Linda Siegfriedt. It was the most grueling and difficult part of transition. Adjusting to a new voice was not natural to me. It was physically painful. I have hearing loss which didn't help. It took what seemed like forever. But my new voice allowed me to pass in the Cis world in ways that clothes, HRT, and surgery never did. I have never been publicly misgendered since then. I have friends who are visually passable but haven't changed their voice, and they are misgendered daily, constantly. Seeing your video and hearing how you sounded 7 days in is kind of a WTF for me. Why did it take me 2 years in therapy to do that? LOL
Early in the video you mention your voice being compared to Contra Points. Trans women are HYPER observant of other people's bodies, looks, voice, etc. in a way that cis people never are. We're expert on these things. So we notice every minutia. Nobody else hears it cause no one else has spent 10k+ hours studying it like trans people have. I think your cadence and upspeak is similar to Contra Points, and that's where some may make the comparison. You also have a small amount of vocal fry, which is similar in some ways to hers, although I think she uses way more vocal fry. When i was doing voice training at GW a big part of it was teaching me to use upspeak. And it's still something that doesn't come natural to me, while vocal fry does. I find myself slipping in and out of upspeak in a code switch way when I am in public vs home. My trans fem friends who were living as "gay men" before transition had upspeak down already. I know a couple of women who had to consciously dial down their upspeak because they were afraid of continuing to have "gay voice," but in reality it was only their internal opinion/view of their voice. To the world they just sounded like women
The more recent escalation of transphobia online that you're experiencing is not you, it's a wave of hate is being fueled by fashism and right wing extremism.
I very much appreciate your video. Your voice is wonderful to hear. Especially auf deutsch! Great job. Keep up the videos!
I've listened to a couple of your videos now, and until I looked at a section of this one I truly honestly thought Lily Alexandre had made a second channel from how your voice sounds to me
This wasn't wasn't what I was expecting (although I can't remember what I was expecting), but I'm pleasantly surprised nonetheless. Coming out recently as transfem to my friends and family at eighteen years old has been a wild ride, to say the least. I've loved singing my whole life, but refuse to let anyone hear my singing voice because I'm ashamed of it. Hopefully someday I can achieve that voice I imagine in my head. Beautiful video. ❤
I'm not gonna lie, I didn't expect to relate so much to this as someone whos nonbinary, but this was a really good video that I found myself relating to more than I thought I would. Thank you for sharing such a deep, personal video
I'm actually crying. Thank you for making this video
This video brought so much compassion, more people need to see this!!! 😌🙏💜💜💜
Came across this while I’m in the middle of coming out all over again, if that makes sense. I came out as non-binary 10 years ago in Montana and just kind of assumed that I would never get to transition the way I wanted to. I now live in a much less conservative state and have access to gender affirming care and I feel like I’m going through the “cleaning house” process you described near the end. This video really opened me up and got me thinking about what I want for myself in brand new ways, so thank you :)
first subscribed for the beautiful blend of queerness and musical analysis-and your current content is just as thoughtful, profound, and beautiful. there’s an odd sense of comfort in all of your videos. every video you make is amazing. really loved this one ♥️
The point about passing is so true! I’m a tiny trans man, and occasionally still get read as female due to my stature… the minute I open my mouth, apologies flood in and I’m gendered correctly from then on. I’d also like to add: I feel like there’s been a bit of a stigma in the trans community towards people who pass and live stealth; there are those of us who don’t always just do it for safety, but that also doesn’t mean it’s inherently internalised transphobia.
I think that's true regarding stealth and passing, which is why I highlighted my friends who view transness as being something they went through, not something they are. I think because of transmedicalists and other exclusionary groups of trans people who think there is a single "correct" way to be trans, the idea of it being something one goes through has an often bad connotation, when throughout history it is just one of the ways that trans people have chosen to describe their experiences. None of the friends I reference are transmedicalists, so I don't want to paint their experience as internalized transphobia when I don't think it is.
@@DreamsoundsVideo Thank you for such a thoughtful response! I didn’t get a chance to finish the video cause I had to go to work, aha.
I'm leaving a comment even though I'm only about 17 minutes into the video just because I want to increase "engagement" or whatever the algorithm likes, this video is really good so far and the low view count is absolutely criminal.
As a trans man on T, I have this weird relationship with my former voice where even though I love my new voice and it feels more like "me", I'm sometimes sad that I can't access that old voice anymore. I can't sing along with everything I once could (musical theater modern tenor roles are just not... Possible dreams anymore lol). The trade was worth it but I have lost something. Listening to trans women use the full range of their voices gives me hope that I have that power at my disposal too, and I have a lot of options for what my voice can sound like even if I can't sound the way I used to.
Everyone's voice is unique. I think yours is very nice. But even if your voice sounded different, it would still be yours...just like my voice is mine.
(I genuinely envy your pitch control, btw.)
This is the first of your videos I've ever seen, it just showed up in my recommended... The emotional impact that this video had with me is hard to put into words. It resonated through every cell. I feel like a tuning fork. It struck me with such force, but not in a violent way. I don't really know what to say more than thank you. Thank you for this work. Thank you for making this art