I feel the need to clarify the "safe" LGBT+ rep bit I made in the video regarding my criticism of Perry being asexual. No, I do not think asexuality should actually be considered the "safe alternative" to other identities, I was saying that in regards to how *Dan might have thought about it* when he made the "Does asexual count?" comment on TikTok. I even say at 20:03 that the idea of asexuality being considered a "safe alternative" *isn't great and has its own problems*, which I briefly listed at 20:05. I understand that ace representation is few and far in-between, but I also believe that it is not above some criticism, especially when even the creator sounded unsure about it. I would love for the show to expand or mention Perry's asexuality in some meaningful way in the continuation coming later this year. I am also not an ace exclusionist, I was there for the Tumblr discourse in the mid-10s as a lurking inclusionist (and asexual person) and I do not like seeing it relived in my comment section, so I really hope this clarifies some things. This video has blown up way more than I ever hoped or expected and it is all quite overwhelming to say the least! I am not above criticism either, but please be aware that I too am a person and read your comments. Please remember your humanity. EDIT: The South Asian creator I mentioned around 26:00, htmljones, is actually a trans woman and uses she/her pronouns! I was not aware of this beforehand, and I apologize for the goof-up. Once again, thank you for watching and thank you for reading this. (P.S. I use they/he pronouns.)
Honestly it was a correct statement regardless, asexuality is brought up constantly and used a lot but with no effort put into the actual identity. They just make them a robot and say "heres your rep, now get out". Same with non binary for the exact sams reason, lazy writers just make them a robot and call it a day. I think people wanted to take the worst faith interpretation out of what you said for conflict engagement.
I'm a cisgender woman, and when I was 12, my leg hair started growing in. My mom had showed me Mrs. Doubtfire, a treasured childhood movie of hers. When I looked down at my hairy legs up until I first shaved, I would think of the scene on the bus in Mrs. Doubtfire when there's a closeup of "Mrs. Doubtfire's" legs, and the bus driver said something like, "We're all made special." It gave me the impression that the hair on my legs was a manly trait, and the only reason I had a problem with that is that it contradicted how I liked to express myself very femininely. When I first started watching this video I thought something along the lines of, "What's the big deal? It just seems like a Mrs. Doubtfire-like storyline," Now it's got me thinking, maybe that's the problem. Maybe this trope is so old that there are people to whom it is normalized like how I initially reacted and they don't see the hateful concepts it was created out of.
@@KvltKommando Bro, why? You know how expensive razors are? How much time it takes to do that shit? You probably dont cause your a man, but its a real hassle when youre "supposed" to do it. Imagine someone says that shit to you when you dont want to do shit. "Just do the thing you hate, not that complicated." Basically, "do the thing you hate because I am uncomfortable with women complaining about unresonable expectations" Bro, it is that complicated. Shave your legs for a couple of years, consitantly. See how it feels. Then, watch how people react to you, calling you "feminine" for having shaved legs. Plus, shaved legs feel dry and gross to some people. In know I was forced to shave my legs as a young child and I have constant dry and itchy legs. When I stpped shaving, dude, my legs felt fucking natural. Like dude, shaving your legs was not only a hassle, but the constant shame when I didnt shave was difficult. Took me years to just be chill with myself and to say no to my parents. Now my legs look strange because the hair follicles are damaged, but at least I dont have to waste time and money on shaving. "Its not that complicated" I have told you how it is and disproved your statement with my perspective. thank you
@@KvltKommando dude just lookup the Pink Tax. Not only do women have to make the extra expense of buying razors and shaving cream meant for your legs which are typically more expensive than men's products, it's also extra time and labor that women have to put in that men never have to. Especially since the expectation of smooth legs for women is so ingrained that a lot of jobs will require short shorts or skirts for female employees, whereas men will be allowed to wear shorts or even pants, with of course no pressure to me smooth.
you made some good points but i think saying that asexual is a "safe" way for characters to be lgbt is a little uh... it sounds like youre saying we're juust not lgbt enough for our representation to even count as lgbt rep. it made me a little sad hearing that
Yeah. We still get "are aces queer" discourse yearly. We get such little rep, much less rep in kids media. Perry being ace is nice, not safe because our sexually it very often seen as not family friendly.
It’s not that they’re the safe option because ace people aren’t queer enough. They’re a safe option because a company can just say “they’re ace” and not do anything with it. They don’t bother exploring the nuances of the ace experience and how asexuality can affect someone’s life. They just say “the character is ace” so they don’t have to add any actual meaningful representation. It would be like saying “this character has an invisible disability” while they don’t explore how this disability affects the character’s life and then claiming to have disability rep.
@@kirbyspaladin9153homophobes still call asexual people predators, i do not think they care if the character is ace or gay or trans, they just care that they’re queer. to discuss being asexual.. sex kinda needs to be brought up, it is not a safe option cause not wanting sex is a rather large factor in being asexual (speaking in the most general explanation for asexual identity, i’m well aware its a spectrum of labels)
I think that's because many people don't know pretty much anything about asexuality. I'm aro ace agender and even those around me who understand the label very well (like my best friend) probably wouldn't know much about it if they didn't know me. Many people don't know what asexuality even is, many don't understand the difference between romantic and sexual orientation, some don't even believe asexuality exist - so for a large chunk of the audience ace characters will still be "basically straight" if they're heteroromantic or in a straight relationship. If a conservative parent sees a gay couple in the cartoon their kid is watching, they'll react negatively (read: either tell the kid not to watch it anymore or try to sue someone, depending on the individual). If they see an asexual character, they'll probably just dismiss them as straight because of their ignorance. TL;DR: Aces are queer, our rep is queer rep, but many people know so little about asexuality that they won't see ace characters as queer. Some producers use it to get queer rep that won't be too "controversial" while still being queer rep, hoping that this lack of knowledge will prevent them from losing the bigoted part of the audience.
I have to agree about the punching down point. I loved Baljeet as a kid, but I have to recognize now that the character was kind of a racist stereotype of Asian people (physically weak, effeminate, obsessed with grades, etc.) I’m Asian, and it definitely kind of hurts to realize that the creators of something so close to your heart are laughing at you.
I mean, I don't 100% agree that he was necessarily a racist stereotype because it is often true and isnt necessarily a bad thing. I also don't think think they had any bad intent with him too. (I'm asain btw). I totally see your point though.
@Shark-pj8in Nah saying that Asian boys are all super weak and care more about their looks or their grades rather than others is bad. Yes it's a joke that had no malice but it's still ignorance. The writer's aren't bad for writing like that, they really just didn't know how to write him like a person.
20:33 - It is kinda weird to hear "I remember watching this as a little kid" about something from 2018, I guess we have different defitinions of "a little kid" lol
I was uhhhh 12 or 13 at the time I believe. Not like too young but tbh literally anything before Covid or maybe 2019 feels like “little kid era” for me LOL
@@MarieMoments335 Yeah, I kinda get you haha. For me "a little kid" stops at like 10, because then you are a tween and then a teen, so like, I get you. For a second I was like "Wait, is she like 14?" when you said that about being a little kid hahah
Reading this comment and thread made me feel 71 rather than 21 lol. Time really fucks with you; doesn’t feel that long ago that my (currently 12-year-old) brother was playing Minecraft with me on the Xbox 360.
its weird that i was taught at school "everyone under 18 is legally a child" which.. much like most, I'd consider less than 12 year olds to be that since 12+ starts being teen, but yeah that'd mean there's probably some people using "as a kid" to talk about them being like 15.
I don't believe there was any real ill will behind the episode, but it was an incredibly and I mean INCREDIBLY uncomfortable watch and I'm glad to see somebody put into perspective why. amazing video, I enjoyed a lot.
Yeah I agree. Even though I hate the episode, I don't think there was any I'll will from Dan, Swampy or the crew at all. It's like the episode itself is basically a bad case of a combination of bad writing and ignorance.
I feel that theirs was a willfull ignorance in that they could have learned a lesson but chose to remain ignorant. And that sounds pretty malicious to me.
MML did get taken over by Doof and the only reason I was still watching was because of Cavandish and Dakota. Weird that show called Milo's Murphy's Law gave better attention to the side stories than the main titled character.
Yeah, I really wasn't a big fan of Doof taking over the show in Season 2. Felt like a crutch, among other things... It seems like they learned that lesson now with Hamster and Gretel staying self-contained to my knowledge but dang do I wish MML wasn't the guinea pig x_x
I mean, Phineas and Ferb wasn’t primarily about Phineas and Ferb either. The boys were basically just the setting, they were plot devices. While Perry, Doof and Candace being the actual main characters. I know MML was structurally different in season 1, but I’m just saying that this team is no stranger to that kind of structure.
@@eddie-roo Still no excuse. It was basically a ploy to get ratings, imagine not having confidence in your own show that you'll bring a popular character to save your show
My school used to have policies protecting the trans students so that they could be protected from bullying, being forced out of the closet to their parents, and being able to transition in school comfortably, but they got rid of those policies and now next year the trans kids in my school won't be protected anymore, which is genuinely scary since one of my friends can't come out to their parents without a lot of trouble happening and the fact that they only got rid of those policies because "trans people make them uncomfortable" makes me sick Update: luckily they backtracked and the policies protecting trans kids are still in place, thank god they decided against getting rid of those policies
how in the world did they think that ''stop protecting children against bullying'' was a good idea? that sounds like the plan of a cartoonishly evil vilain on a kids book. i really cant believe theres real people that think like that
I love MML but this episode made me so uncomfortable and I haven't rewatched it since. It felt like a plot from the late 90s or early 2000s but way outdated by 2018.
agreed, S2 was kinda a downgrade and even though MML is generally better than Hamster and Gretel, the latter has my respect for actually making it's own identity, instead of riding off PnF's popularity @kootunesscrewy
15:48 im going to be honest this feel really like a strech Tbh ist more posible that they choose billy bison beacuse it sounded better and there a lot of bisons in america And as far as i rember billy bison never did act like a kid frendly buffalo bill even in the clips you showed he wasnt enjoying peopole being stomped by buffalos Its more probable billy bison is just another joke that didnt land
This isn't just a stretch; this is medieval rack levels of stretching. It genuinely felt like a satirical joke about jumping to a conclusion and I expected there to be some kind of (albeit terribly executed and strawmanish) point about what the writers "did with trans people", but then it dawned on me that no, that was a totally serious theory about what Billy Bison was a "reference" to. That was the point in the video where my argumentative side just deflated because it realized that the entire basis of this video is essentially rage bait around split second perceptions of a kids show. Because this youtuber cannot fathom the concept of absurdist humor / pure comedy and assumes that everything must serve a purpose or agenda. The only joke that even had any clear jurisdiction of the writers' own feelings is the way the Hollywood execs are portrayed, which is an accurate representation of how modern Hollywood operates whether people like it or not. I knew this video was going to be hard to watch once they stated their primary source was an opinion piece written by a trans author (directly feeding into confirmation bias and echochambering), but between acting like the only issue with Ghostbusters 2016 was women (the issue was that they swapped existing characters for new all female leads that in turn also sucked, making the decision to do so seem really pointless since it didn't improve anything), and now assuming that a throwaway absurdist gag about a kid with a ridiculous power similar to the lead's own power... somehow being a reference to Silence of the Lambs??? I literally cannot take this video seriously anymore.
I haven’t watched This video yet, I’m just going down in the comments and seeing the general consensus and that last line about Silence of the Lambs hit me like a fucking brick lmao???
@@Double_DAW Edit: One comment summed up my thoughts perfectly: "I feel like they could've done an episode making fun of reboots and the death of creativity without a crossdressing plot[.]" I think this is the crux here, that the majority of the episode was completely unnecessary and used off putting humor. While that whole section about billy bison was a stretch, trying to dumb down the entire video to rage bait is a bit crazy? I think the video started out strong, with a straightforward analysis of the plot, specific jokes, and how they translate into forms of commonplace transphobia towards trans women. FIrst off, I wouldnt call the primary source of the entire video from that one book. I would say that the primary source is the general discussion around trans women and how specifically harmful representations of them have permanently made their ways into media, such as this episode. In fact, discussion about this topic specifically is the point of this entire video and many others that discuss other pieces of media that contain transphobic views and stereotypes. The book referenced is meant to explain where the term "transmisogyny" comes from and give context to the following discussion. I would go so far as to say that the entire video being based on an "opinion piece" is a stretch in itself. The concept of "men pretending to be women" to get things they want, i.e. into womens spaces (bathrooms/locker rooms). win sports, sick kicks or a kink, etc, that entire talking point is the single largest weapon against trans women in media. Calling trans women nothing more than predators and men in dresses is harmful at best and undeniably transphobic, since instead of just not taking the identity seriously, they dont acknowledge it at all. This take on trans women has even become commonly known stereotype. And almost every time trans women are in a comedic situation in media, which he references in the video, it comes down to disgust or ridicule of trans women as men in dresses who are obviously ugly, need tons of makeup to be attractive at all, and just act as women to deceive. It never stops at just calling them men in dresses, it always takes that additional step farther. I'd say that the song in this show's episode especially is cartoonishly representative of these sentiments, to a T, even comparing the beauty of a man in a dress to a bag of flour or traffic causing. So this, at base, is grounds for a serious topic of discussion instead of just a book written by a trans author. This video is also not rage bait. Content like this never seeks to attack the show/movie involved, writers team, or execs, but instead aims to ask how or why it happened and examine what happened in the first place. As far as I can tell, this youtuber doesnt intend to rile anybody up either and shows genuine concern for something this uncomfortable being not just in any childrens show, but a show by the same team behind one of the most universally loved childrens shows of all time. Ironically, the additional theme of media producers in hollywood making literally whatever they want and passing genuinely terrible scripts with no regard to their substance may have been a meta commentary on the entire episode, especially since the same concerns this youtuber has about the writers room happen to be the same concerns Milo had in-universe when he questioned the exec about the movie's continuity. Its also possible that this entire episode serves as a meta critique of how ridiculous the plot of Tootsie was, and that the notion that men can/will/do masquerade as women just for personal benefit of some kind is also ridiculous, and that viewing trans people in that light is equally ridiculous. And while either of those explanations would be great shows of writing, I honestly cant give this show that kind of credit for complex writing, on top of that second possibility being a HUGE stretch. Its not that deep, so that only really leaves the transphobic explanation since its the simplest answer and the easiest way to read this. Basically, from a transphobic point of view or not, the audience is, without a doubt, supposed to read this episode with (negative) reference to trans women. The point about ghostbusters 2016 having an all womens cast being brought up at all was because of the additional theme of directors and producers in hollywood doing whatever they want and how in the episode, they do exactly that to a movie and this kickstarts the plot for the rest of the runtime. I think the real world criticisms of Ghostbusters 2016 are a lot more complicated than just a bad cast switch, but thats not relevant to any argument anyone here has made (you, me, or the youtuber) so im not going to add anything there. I dont think you should completely discredit the video because of one (very large) stretch. Its a short part of the video and I dont think it does anything to discredit the observations and analysis that came before that section, or the unfiltered reactions of real trans people who add their own takes towards the end. It may slightly discredit the youtuber but I feel that the rest of the points still stand and are worth thinking about. Im still confused why you had trouble taking the video seriously to start and naturally felt argumentative the entire time, but the video genuinely has substance and deserves a more serious watch.
Its hard to say is a complete concidence since the episode does feature a man dressing as a woman, the names are fairly similar (Buffalo Bill - Billy Bison), as well as this being Billy's only apperance. It feels like an afterthought gag but definetly intentional.
I gotta say, I think a lot of this video was a stretch (my personal opinion) i am trans, but this Video is about a man in a dress, a muscular, masculine character who identifies as a man, Who is NOT trans, i dont see it as Transphobia, I mean i didnt exactly Like the episode, it fell flat, the most problimatic thing is the song, because Oof those lyrics CUT DEEP. And the Billy bison thing is a HUGE stretch, But i dont see this episode as being transphobic, because the character isnt trans, its a trope used In many many TV shows. But this is all my personal opinion! There is some actual Transphobic things in cartoons, like in family Guy when Glenns Parent transitions, that character is transgender and getting made fun of and put down for it, that is what i would say transphobia truly looks like in cartoons. This episode did not age perfectly though, i do agree with that.
The problem isn’t the character being trans, it’s the “man in dress” trope that is transphobic in itself by saying “haha, man cannot wear dress! Only woman wear dress! Very funny”
@stellanovaluna that's what makes it transphobic though? A transphobic caricature is always going to portray trans women as men in dresses, because thats what they see trans women as, there can be good crossdressing representation but this is not it at all, there's like no difference between this and every other trans misogynist caricature in media, it's "man pushes himself into women's spaces by pretending to be woman by putting on a dress and makeup and high pitched voice, and it's hilarious how ugly he looks"
@@stellanovalunaThey aren't but the fact that we view someone who may look masculine as ugly as soon as they try to fall in line with feminine beauty standards is harmful not just to trans women but cis as well. It doesn't help that transphobes find trans women inherently masculine and or men in dresses.
In my opinion, Dan is just misguided, i mean if i was a boomer, i may not know what trans rights are, research and learning is needed, and I'm glad you're not shitty towards them.
I agree he deserves to be called out and educated on why what he did was wrong as he seems like a sweet guy who doesn’t mean any harm he’s just a product of his time, and With proper education I could believe he’d be an ally. I for one always think those who unintentionally screw up deserve to be educated and have redemption as opposed to being canceled, only those who intentionally screw up to be bigoted on purpose deserve to be canceled without an attempt at educating them to join our side or see the era of their ways. To often the interns cares less about helping those who screw up, and by extension stopping the behavior by addressing its roots, and more about pointing a finger blaming them, and canceling them.
@@drawingfandome you know what? I agree with you on that one. As evident on his Rebecca Sugar video and how he treats them, doesn't seem hostile either compared to how some of his fans who dunks on them and compared Dan to them.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 I mean, not that it is, but not all people are informed at this point especially if you live in an older generation. There will be some adjustments based on where they are from in that time period, all I'm saying is that people like him deserves a chance to explain at least or at least needs to learn or to be educated on the matter. I do think he deserves to be called out at least, but his stances are not 100 right, and yes, it's also deserving to hear some apology or response from him.
yo we as a group didn't like the Ghostbusters movie because of the poor writing, not the full cast of women, i think we SHOULD and NEED to see more movies with full women casts but they usually do poor writing with those kind of movies.
If you want to see all-female casts and good writing, you need to be looking at what Japan's making. Americans still struggle with this because they're mostly already bad writers and they're trying to write something they have no experience or good reference material for.
As serious as the rest of the video was; them saying they didn't need to watch it to know why it was hated is almost a direct quote from the people who made it who were harassing people online; who were making valid points about the writing, and lumping them in with the small minority of people who were actually sexist. That group will always exist and I can't take people seriously who boil a movie or other thing's success or failure down to something that doesn't happen anymore. If a movie gets a lot of attention; good or bad, it will find an audience in those who watch and enjoy it. If everyone hates it because of the writing that probably means it has bad writing. Anyway, sorry for ranting. Thought that subject needed more attention. Good luck out there, everyone. Much love.
i think the problem lies in that the main drive of the idea is "full woman cast" and pretty much forget about proper writing/plot because that's secondary, not the "selling point" Which sucks. It really sets all these kind of movies up for failure.
especially redoing a pre-existing series for the sake of it..something original with an all female cast is just cooler, let alone if it has actually decent writing
@@jadenjerries2094 Okay but there's transphobic gay people not homophobic gay people or transphobic trans people. I also think the asexual line was very weird but I don't think the author of the video hates asexual people that's too far.
I'm ace, and "does asexual count?" is the kind of thing I could see myself saying back in 2018 if randomly asked by a person on the internet to please tell them if one of my characters who I had no planned romantic plotlines for was LGBTQ. (Don't want "lazy" rep? Don't ask creators for representation info they haven't offered themselves.) There's so little knowledge and many misconceptions out there about asexuality that it's hard for me to blame anyone who just seems to not get it.
I heard this argument back in the day that "ace people aren't lgbt because they're not being oppressed for their sexuality" and I think that's incorrect. A lot of people, especially women, are pressured and even forced into marriage. I think it's easier to be ace compared to being gay but to say ace people don't count is like saying gay people don't count because they don't have it as bad as trans people. It's no a suffering contest. I think there are some sexualities and gender identities that don't automatically make you queer. I consider the terms demisexual, demiromantic, demiboy, demigirl, and grayasexual to fall under those categories. Your sexuality and gender may differ from the norm but if you're an amab straight demiboy demisexual it kind of puts you in a strange spot where you're almost queer but not quiet. (Just to be clear I'm not referring to ace people who have sex. It's not about who you date or who you have sex with it's about your attraction when it comes to sexuality. What I'm saying is if you're straight you have straight privilege, regardless if you're only straight under specific circumstances) It ultimately doesn't matter what counts as queer anyways. I consider allies part of our community and while they're not one of us they are more than welcome to join in. Plus it comes with a cool flag.
@@BlissAnimations that's not an example of asexual repression, it's an example of male bigotry and a complete objectification of women. A woman isn't automatically asexual if she doesn't want to be forced into marriage, you tunnel-visioned identity alchemist.
I've recently come out as trans to my family, and although they were very accepting and loving, I'm scared of what'll happen if I publicly say I'm trans, especially with which US state I live in, which is highly aggressive towards transgender people. I rarely leave my house, but it's still scary to think about. Me and my mom have been thinking of moving to Europe, because we both dislike living in America.
If you're ever planning on moving to Europe, Sweden is a nice place to live. Beautiful scenery, a decent economy, and a very high positivity towards the LGBTQ. Plus, free healthcare and politicians who aren't AS dumb.
Dang, this video left me with some conflicting feelings, to say the least. Everything you mentioned (except for the Buffalo Bill thing because that kinda felt like a reach) is just... yikes. I still like the shows, and I don't believe any real malice was intended, but... yeah...
@@Saf333 I dont think its ignorance, I think its lgbt illiteracy, they are two different things, I feel like the video is reaching because the butt of the joke is that he clearly doesnt identify as a woman and doesnt make the effort to try and be more feminine, just like you see in bugs bunny or whatever old cartoons you may find, the joke is that it's abrupt, silly and identifiable, things that do not at all coorelate with trans women, I understand it can be percieved as offensive, but I think people are projecting their idea that trans women are like that/look like that if they think it's offensive, I speak on my POV that I don't believe trans women look like what he did while cross dressing
@@Kiko-es6xx yeah I'm 100% in the opinion that if you think trans women don't look like women and project that onto cartoons and the like, that says a lot more about YOU than it does the creators
@@deadbum hmm... baseball cap? so base is slang for truth/authentic (based in reality) baller is slang for something very good and fun, but no-cap is slang for truth authentic, leaving cap and capping to mean not authentic so you're saying baseball cap.. real fun lies? well i think that's a bit crass. tobina isn't ugly, she's just handsome (which can apply to women and used to be a compliment for women in the 1800s)
as a longtime fan of pnf/mml, this video is awesome. dan and swampy have a looooong history of being transmisogynistic in their various medias and you explain it so well here. i really hope that this video can gain more attention so ppl can understand how transmisogyny can manifest in media, especially the 'subtle' ways. thank you for including transfem voices in this video as well. its really obvious that you did your research well, and that alone is enough, and you still took the time to get more opinions. i really appreciate the varied opinions you added! i also love how you added the part about perrys "asexuality" being a safe alternative to him being canonically gay. it frustrates me when people count him as "good ace rep" when dan and swampy clearly are avoiding the question. your inclusion and analysis of the current moral panic involved is really well done too, thank you for including that. hopes and prayers that dan and swampy watch this video 🙏
thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed comment :'0!!! to me it would have felt something was missing if i didnt include any trans peoples takes, esp on the feminine side of things. i also hope this makes people think about how transmisogyny ends up in things, intentionally or otherwise! re: perry's "asexuality" yeah thats been bugging me for a loooong time. i wanted to make a separate video about it but i think i'm happy with my brief take on it in this. perry is asexual to me but in the gay-ace way and that was my headcanon way before dan "confirmed" the ace part. as it stands it just feels a little....dumbledore-y if you catch my drift LOL. as depressing as it is to talk about the moral panic, it had to be. especially since things have gotten.........worse since i started putting this together x_x. if dan and swampy ever do see this i WILL lose my mind. i hope they take it to heart and listen at the very least.
this comment is frustrating at the very least. i think dwampyverse media is the last thing that should be used to educate people on transmisogyny. saying that dan and swampy have "a long history" of it as well is just ridiculous considering that they have never ever even had anywhere near that intent with any of the media theyve created. i think yall should put more energy into real issues hurting our community rather than hyper-analyzing harmless media in search of any hints of subtle bigotry between the lines that arent even there. videos and takes like these are ultimately what end up hurting our community the most, because yall are so obsessed with making harmless people and behavior look malicious that you let real bigots run free and hurt queer people. also, the perry ace thing being seen as poor rep just because dan and swampy didn't make hold any sexual attraction and referring to it as "avoiding the question" as if ace/aro people are a different little subsection of their own rather than actually part of the community is gross. automatically assuming the very worst of dan and swampy's intent when it's... literally just the thing that makes the most sense if you actually watch the show without being mad that he wasn't the "rep" YOU wanted. there are plenty of ace and queer people that are happy with the rep for reasons you personally dont understand - just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's overall "bad rep". overall i'm very disappointed with the reactionary and illogical criticism of the show that only came out of this new era of online cancel culture that people are desperate to partake in so they can feel like they're helping our community when they really aren't and are instead just hurting us. hopes and prayers that dan and swampy don't watch this video or engage with any other content that makes them feel like they have to walk on eggshells in order to Not upset a small handful of fans that feel personally attacked, despite a large chunk of the active dwampyverse fanbase being queer themselves and enjoying this media and feel a positive emotional connection to their work.
I just kinda viewed this episode as more of the crossdressing trope, which a lot of shows do whether for the sake of humor or trying to be offensive. I think this episode falls more into the humor category
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Yeah I agree, I’m not not trying to say we should defend ignorance or anything. I think what I’m trying to say is that context matters when it comes to topics
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Again like I said I'm not not saying I advocate for any of that. All I'm saying is that tropes in media can used for a majority of reasons and I think it's always important to at least understand before anyone makes any rash decisions
@@mauricecherry1209 The content of the video clearly is aware of these tropes and openly discusses and builds off of that to make it's points. Also I'm not sure what you mean by 'humour category'? The whole point of the video is looking at the content of the jokes, they're aware the episode is supposed to be comedic, it's just that the comedy is using harmful stereotypes for the punchline. You should realise that tropes extend beyond intent and are part of a bigger cultural picture, these outdated crossdressing tropes have always been entangled with misogyny and transphobia. It's inherent to the trope because of how it treats and approaches gender.
I'll be honest, I'm a trans girl and honestly I don't think this episode is harmful, I can even tell that this isn't even really about trans women, its like saying that bugs bunny’s crossdress is transphobic, this has been in media for a very long time, if they were winking at the screen saying how bad a man wanting to be a woman was then you'd had a point, they don't want to be women for like identity, its because they want to get to a certain goal, if they were being demeaned for wanting to be women it'd be a different story, please don't speak for transwomen I'm tired of people speaking for others, this episode is unfunny for being unfunny but not for some trans misogynistic shtick
I kinda agree - I’m not a trans woman, but I am a femboy, so it’s a little jarring to hear this accusation that any depiction of a man looking like a woman is transphobic. I do think though that this episode definitely raises some red flags due to the “going into women’s spaces” bits and the “sudden masculine strength” jokes. I think the episode had some transphobic undertones and intentions. I mostly agree with Ella’s take on the episode, where most of it seemed innocent enough up until the song.
When I first watched this episode, I was in the shower (don't ask), so the song's lyrics flew over my head, even then, this episode felt very insensitive in a sense and I never liked it. Now that I actually know the song's lyrics, my point has only grown, and the lyrics are just, in a word, very mean-spirited. And I hate this entire episode save for that one meta joke about lack of care for continuity Also, although I liked the Dakavandish plot, I always found the Bison thing quite unfunny, this revalation, skyrockets my opinion on it from "unfunny", to straight up appalingly abhorent. And if this is just a reach, then I still find it unfunny I do hope Dan and Swampy see this, because I don't want them to fall into the same insensitivity pitfalls in the PnF revival, it'd also be great to have some trans representation on the writing crew to make sure of that. Great video, you did a ton more research than you needed to and the editing is way high level, I hope this blows up, and I'll keep spreading the word as much as I can
P&F has always had these weird double standards to it. Sometimes it'll be about really good, heartfelt inclusivity, and other times it will just include wholesale stereotypes, seemingly just because the writers didn't want to research it. Candace will be allowed to genuinely love Ducky Momo and not be shamed for her enjoyment of it, and then Buford - a boy who it's been stated in-universe is lashing out because of repressed emotional issues - gets shunned for crying and wanting hugs when he's afraid his pet goldfish is dead. Stacy and her sister are very comfortably Japanese, and though their culture and heritage are brought up, it doesn't define their characters, and then Baljeet is a walking stereotype so painful it makes one feel guilty to enjoy the show. Sometimes its approach to science and history will be intentionally off the wall, blatantly, entertainingly wrong facts used to drive home the fact that the show is more interested in being good than in trying to educate its audience, and sometimes forays into other cultures will effectively be a rundown of Western cliches of that culture as though "other people funny cus they do funny thing and talk funny way" is a reasonable joke in the modern world. It's like it was written by someone who thought comedy peaked in the fifties and one who wanted to bring something new and interesting to the world, and their jokes clash in very odd ways. And while I haven't seen MML, I wouldn't be surprised if it went the same way.
I love PnF but I agree with this entire paragraph. I love the show but it had a consistent issue with this sort of stuff. I mean, the show even had a (terrible) boys vs girls episode
Are we just gonna forget the episode where they went to Japan and literally everyone looked almost the exact same? plus the songs lyrics were super offensive because it plays into that “Asian people speak broken English” stereotype.
At some point I think it might be kinda good to have stereotypes in a series, it shows how there are people who are like the stereotypes and people who don't, like in real life. But P&F makes it a bit... weird? Like instead of making stereotypical light jokes on the stereotypical characters it makes offensive jokes on the culture itself and it gets weird real fast.
You’re taking the show way too seriously. There’s nothing wrong with including stereotypical characters in a show, especially a comedy show, and all of the characters are P and F are still beloved and seen as good people in and out of universe, despite that. If it’s for the sake of telling a joke or making a good story, then they can put in stereotypes as much as they want, it’s not like the writers need to research anything just to make a comedic moment work. They obviously don’t want the show to be taken too seriously in the first place
Well, its hard to call it an total coincidence when the main subject matter is men dressing up as women, especially since this is the only appearance of the character and the names are fairly similar
@@Prismate Depends what you mean by that. Is it some great hidden statement about how the creators hate trans and crossdressing people and want to associate them with murderers? Obviously not and it'd be foolish to go that far. But is it an intentional low effort joke standing from the similar subject matter? Absolutely. It's just not something you do entirely accidently. So while looking for some hateful message is definetly reading too much into it, looking for a colleraton at all is not too much. Like, let's give the creators some credit, they do very much know pop culture, so the reference is obviously intentional.
@@marleonka. what? associate trans people with murderers? did I miss something? also I don’t know the creators at all so I can’t judge what they do and don’t know
It's jarring how recent this episode is- 2018? Around the time of Static Cling of Rocko's Modern Life, which was about a transwoman representing everything changing? Around 3 years prior to nonbinary icon Raine Whispers made their debut on Disney? (Owl House also has Masha and even The Collector goes by he/they) Considerably after the transphobic Futurama episode? Nice video, very well done and formatted. I'm curious to see what you review next!
I don’t think South Park was saying it was weird for Mr Garrison to be Ms Garrison, because everyone respected that during the season(s) they identified as that. It was because Mr Garrison didn’t understand that he was gay, that was the joke. With Butters, I think it was more joking about that entire concept itself, not just Butters dressing as a girl, also Butters didn’t want to, it was all the boys who convinced him to. South Park isn’t perfect, but I don’t think Matt and Trey would do that without thinking about the trope and its implications I don’t think Dan Povenmire was trying to be malicious with the episode, nor with his comment on Perry being Ace, it was just a mistake made (in terms of MML). It’s cool that we have a canon LGBT character now in Phineas and Ferb, even if it wasn’t shown in the show (because of Disney, we saw what happened with Gravity Falls and Owl House)
This is what I'm saying. I feel like it was taken personally when it was not meant to be a dig at anyone like that. At worst you can say it's meant to be something against drag queens? Or maybe in support of them considering drag (to my knowledge) is suppoesed to be funny? Or at least in a good chunk of drag shows it is.
i don't think it was made with the explicit intent to be offensive (unlike tootsie, which likely was given the time it was filmed), it just feels more inconsiderate and ignorant to the current state of society and how it handles that sort of thing
See, I understand where you're coming from and some of your points are valid, but to play devil's advocate here, the episode isn't about Tobias being trans, it's about a cis man trying to get the role by dressing up as a woman. I would accept your points if it was actually shown in the show that Tobias is trans, but he's not, he is a cisgender man. The show isn't making fun of trans women, it's making fun of a cis man who is pretending to be a woman for personal gain. Yes, that could encourage negative stereotypes about trans women, and it does feel a little bit suspicious that this is a common trope, but in the end, the character is not transgender, they are not making fun of somebody who is transgender, they are making fun of a cis man. As someone whose non-binary and genderfluid myself, I don't really see the issue with the lyrics either, yes it's weird to imply that women don't shave, but the lyrics are all the poking fun at his expense, not an actual trans woman. But idk, maybe i need to watch the episode myself. To me, this is just a lackluster episode with very tired stereotypes. (Sorry if any of that was difficult to read, I'm using speech-to-text)
you're not wrong, but that is more or less exactly the defense the showrunners hope for and lean on when these tired stock plots get pulled out. it's meant to support this idea that they aren't "actually transphobic", they just really have strong opinions about men dressing up as women and it's such a shame that if they allowed trans women into women's sports, they'd ooobviously be flooded with men pretending to be women for easy victories, so the best solution is just to not allow them at all. it's a way they try to have their cake and eat it too, being able to write this character as obviously meant to be emblematic of trans women while being able to wave away criticism with "but actually this character is just pretending, they aren't actually trans", AND squeeze in the lovely insinuation that trans women are all men in disguise. hope this makes sense + doesn't come off rude or anything, i'm a little out of it with allergy season rn :(
Hard agree with this, I see the episode as less a product of transmisogyny and more a product of just old humor. It's something that'll become less common with time.
@@insertchannelnamehere1448 That could be the the case, but at the same time Dan and Swampy seem more ignorant than anything. When people spoke up about Baljeet, they didn't double down on the racist jokes and said nothing was wrong, they acknowledged they fucked up and course corrected. I get that it's easy to make assumptions like that about older people who grew up in a more bigoted environment, but I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to conclusions. Plus I won't lie, I feel like a lesson about how pretending to be trans to gain something is bad wouldn't be the worst thing. Teach people to be comfortable with their identity rather than changing your identity for personal benefit (i.e. a physically well person pretending to be ill or disabled for monetary gain and sympathy.
I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say a lot of people missed the "" around the word "Safe" and also the change in the creators tone of voice indicating that they were criticizing how Ace is used as a catch all for characters that don't explicitly have a sexuality in order to gain brownie points with LGBTQ+ peoples while not setting off Corporate's PR instant anti-Gay beam. (Nuance exists even though it can be hard to distinguish)
Phineas and Ferb did a few "put the male characters in dresses" jokes too but they were just that: smaller jokes in a larger story... not the premise of the episode! In fact "apparently... do what we did..." is one of my favorite jokes in Phineas and ferb! And I'm saying this as a transgender person myself!
I don’t even think the funny part of the “apparently do what we did” joke was that the boys were wearing dresses. To me the humour came from Phineas and Ferb getting dressed up nicely in a nanosecond while Candace was still in a towel
i cant pay attention to video with the homestuck music playing in the background. i was like hey is that idk cascade and elevator music? IT IS. I RECOGNIZED IT. WHAT. im too far gone for this world
You made some good points, but overall I don't agree with this video. Some of the jokes, like the shaving one, could be interpreted as transphobic. I don't think they were intended to be, but you decide whether that makes it better or not. None of them are funny, in my opinion. But I don't think the concept of the episode is transphobic because there are literally no trans people in it. I don't think Tobias/Tobina is supposed to be a dogwhistle for them either. This episode is about a man pretending to be a woman, not about a woman who was assigned male at birth and has a masculine body. People pretending to be something they're not is an *EXTREMELY* common storytelling trope in general and comedy trope specifically. Why should the subject of gender specifically be off the table for a plot like that? Is a film like "Party Cops", about people pretending to be cops, being bad at it and getting ridiculed for it, inherently cop-phobic? Even the first song of the episode doesn't even poke fun at men dressing as women in general, let alone trans women, it just pokes fun at Tobias specifically for being ugly. And if you look at his face, it's definitely drawn in a more exagerrated/weird/ugly way compared to other characters, even when he's male-presenting. I'd argue that poking fun at the appearance of a specific character is mean and not funny, but it's not transphobic. Overall, yeah I agree the episode is bad, tone deaf, and could possibly be misinterpreted by transphobes, and there should be more trans representation in cartoons. But I don't think this Episode is inherently transphobic. Honestly I have no idea what you were trying to do in some parts of the video (Billy Bison, Doofenschmirtz mistaking a woman's voice for a man's, Doof voice in Amber Heard trial). Seemed like grasping at straws to make your point, or just generally weird, pointless digressions. The editing in this video is really good though, and you did raise some good points. I hope you continue on UA-cam!
Congratulations on putting out your first video. It's a really important message, and sadly still relevant all these years later. Hope your UA-cam career goes well, Acesten!
I may be a cis man but my thoughts on transgender people have always been the same. Alrighty then I'll keep that in mind. Because to me trans people are people who deserve the care and respect anyone else deserves they should be treated as you'd treat any other person with needs and should have those wants and needs in there life fulfilled so they can be happy as who they are. As someone with a lot of friends who are trans or nonbinary I simply want to try and help them wherever I can if they need it. As someone who is planning on becoming a filmmaker I would love to hire people of those groups to help increase representation.
Trans woman here. Thank you for not only covering the blantantly transphobic episode, but for also talking about the violence and hate going around. I've been transitioning for about 2 years now (nonbinary to transfem) and it seems that there's been a huge spike in transphobia recently. It's so idiotic that a few stereotypes about a group of people just trying to exist peacefully who simply just want to change their gender, cause such hate and outright violence for no reason whatsoever. It's scary out there, but keep in mind, love triumphs hate. Always and forever
@@laobok In all seriousness though, pride month is to celebrate being proud of your gender or sexuality, as opposed to feeling ashamed of your labels. (also history exists)
I’m a trans man and I agree with a lot of this.. it’s so unsettling to have to just sit there while other people debate whether or not you deserve to live for literally doing nothing wrong.. and then when I try to say anything about it most people around me get defensive and act like trans people are a completely different species.. like please I just want to be able to be myself in public without being told I’m shoving it in people’s faces or that I don’t deserve respect.. I’m just existing. Anytime I bring up the growing rate of trans targeted hate crimes people defend the literal murderers just because the victim is trans.. and then tell me I’m being dramatic bc it’s not that many. It is a lot of people and mainly those in my age group, I dont even use the men’s bathrooms due to this fear and have had a couple uncomfortable situations due to it. Not to mention really they forget they aren’t only hurting us trans people, you can’t be an unconventional looking person whatsoever anymore without people thinking you’re trans and being bigoted. It also hurts due to it being done by my one childhood hero Dan and the show he made that shaped me and lead to me becoming a confident designer by profession
@@archives2876 yea I know man and one of those is clinical gender dysphoria 😭 but I only rlly talk about that in trans spaces not day to day, it’s just annoying for people to act like we have the same rights when everyday trans people are murdered and we know who is the murderer but they face no repercussions
@@archives2876 many hate crimes go unpunished including terrible murders of literal children. I recommend looking it up. Though some people consider Nex’s to be “debateable”. You’d think they’d get convicted but suddenly they think it’s a “belief” and not actual murder when you’re attacking trans people.. horrific but even in the case mentioned (Nex) they had their face slammed into concrete floor repeatedly, and experienced facial injury, slurred speech, slowed motor functions and questionable personality changes between the incident and their death literally a day later. It was officially ruled a su!cide though the autopsy did not record their visible injuries (even if unrelated to death have to be recorded) and multiple toxicologists stated that the drugs in their system (mental health medications) shouldn’t have killed them whatsoever.
Hey I really liked the way you formatted this episode, and love the lil Acesten avatar! I was a PNF fan as a tween, but never saw the Milo show bc I had already moved out and didn't have cable. I think that the episode reads very "there's no difference between a man in a dress and someone who's an amab woman" if we're being particularly picky, and also agree with Lilly that if we're being charitable, the episode is still very anti GNC woman (facial hair, broader shoulders, etc). Both of these things are bad obviously. I think that even if they didn't intend for the message to be transphobic, it's clearly a blind spot for the writers. It's crucial to check your blind spots when doing content geared to younger audiences because they don't understand nuance yet and will parrot what you say, especially if it's said in a silly voice. Edit: THIS IS YOUR FIRST VIDEO ESSAY??? YOU DID SO WELL!
HOMESTUCK. I HEARD THAT MUSIC N THE BACKGROUND. Also I was like "Huh good video" and went to see your other videos and was hit with the big OOF of this being your first... Well, here's looking forward to more.
I had no idea about any of this. As a trans person who grew up watching Phineas and Ferb I'm pretty heartbroken. Thank you for the hugely informative and well articulated video 🫶
nb person here, had no idea about any of this since i never really watched mml or knew much about it beyond that one llama song; thank you for taking the time to make this, it's really informative and i hope the trans community, **especially** transfem women, gets an apology
Hey, since this is your first experience with the show. Let me be the first to tell you that this isn't at all indicative of the series as a whole, and it is actually a really good show and deserves way more attention that it already gets. Please watch the first few episodes on your own to make an opinion of it outside of a video essay criticizing an episode of it!
Still sucks that they did this, I was going to rewatch the show later, because I dropped it a some point, but after seeing this I'm gonna pass.@@indecisive2insomniac610
@@crunks2955 Yeah icl it's more of a drag thing? And it's not like MML/P&F are strangers to putting men in dresses in a comedic and very clearly not personally attacking way...I feel like it's being blown up from nothing because someone got upset when it wasn't even about them.
hello xx OR xy person, a man OR a woman dressing up as their OPPOSITE gender role doesn't make them transexual, crossdressing exists + this episode feels like its highlighting how men say they are women to pulverize women in sports or how "gender quotas" are forcing men to dress as woman to get the jobs. If "trans" people get offended it's their own fault for thinking everything is about them, kinda like that people that starts any conversation saying "nb person here"... want me to gift you a hoodie with that phrase on it? for real, I will... just let me know if you want it for male OR female, maybe unisex, that one fits men AND women.
My fiancé and I watched through MML for the first time earlier this year and this episode really stuck out to both of us as something we couldn't believe they made in 2018. You did a great job explaining why plots like this reinforce negative stereotypes. (This video also reinforced that I need to read Whipping Girl.)
it's true, i was the fiancé. i legitimately had no idea what the hell i was watching; the episode made me viscerally upset in a way i could not describe, and this video puts most of it into words (especially jenny geist saying it's like the creators didn't even view this as punching down). it's overall a shame because the trope of gender-bending/gender-swapping characters is one i was always drawn to as a kid, for reasons i didn't quite understand until i was in my mid-20s and realized i'm genderfluid. i've always wished shows like this would use more good faith in experimenting with the premise, but most of them seem to not know how. it's just "man in dress" jokes all the way down. it's infuriating.
From the references to Tootsie to Silence of the Lambs, how did the writers even think kids would understand the context behind any of these jokes? They definitely only made this episode to preach about the female Ghostbusters thing, child audience be damned 💀
Problem is, it’s harder to subtly show asexual characters in family friendly shows. While in adult shows, they should have no problem, since it’s for an adult audience. But discussions about sex in a family friendly show should always be a big no. So instead of just saying this character is ace, show subtle realistic signs that someone is ace. Maybe visually show they have merch of their sexuality whenever in a little keychain or flag, a lot of people do that in real life. Or when discussing family life, have a character mention they do things differently. Maybe use some ace lingo Not many know. Other times the character may reference they have some trouble understanding parts of a relationship. It doesn’t have to go all out saying they’re ace. And just don’t fall into the stereotype like the naive pure one. Other than that, I say you a-ok. Though can people stop saying asexuality is safe. Maybe I could get in adult shows, since they get away with a lot. But in a kids show, it’s pretty hard to get away with sexualities (in general really) saying certain things especially with a company like Disney.
I think the problem with this approach is that it almost always goes over peoples heads, and the people who do pick up on it and tell other people are called crazy or woke, and that theyre reading into it too much. Asexuality is one of those things that people actually do need spelled out for them 💀
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 cuz that is inappropriate. There is a stage in a kid's life where they should learn that, but cartoons aren't a place for sex ed. You could argue for just educational cartoons But even then, it's a discussion with one's parents.
shoutout to ella cesari for sharing this on her twitter! a great artist responsible for some great short story webcomics. glad she's still kicking and pitched in.
As a transfem, I'm just numb to "man in dress" episodes, I've learned to just ignore them cause there's nothing I can do about it. But I really am happy there's still people talking about this. This was an amazing and informative video and you're an awesome person, thank you for making a great essay on transphobia/misogyny in the media industry, we really need more of them
I think there are things we can do about it though, people have called out these episodes and tropes and while they do still happen, they've become a lot less common
@@EnvelopingSuspensions HE is not at all reading to far into it. Like HE says, this episode is about making fun of a man in a dress. This is genuinely how a lot of people still see trans women. A piece of media can still be transphobic without having trans characters
maybe people needs to stop being offended by "man in dress" episodes since cross dressing has nothing to do with "trans" people.... or maybe stop getting offended about everything
@@Dextrome the fact that it so blatantly perpetuates very dated ways of thinking that is both tone deaf and sexist. Like look, even if it isn't something that can give vibes of transphobia I fucking hate lazy boomer ass sexist jokes "Guy Thing, Girl Thing" Fairly Oddparents is full of that shit and it ruins a rewatch, even good shows like Mystery Incorporated can have some of that obnoxious humor slipped in. Making jokes like "This is what men do, this is what women do! Oh, what's that? Something that crosses the lines? Then it's weird!" is just a very cringe and backwards way to try being funny. Not everyone is the same, not everyone conforms to social norms, and in the cases of minorities or people who face discrimination it makes it harder for those people to feel welcome and valid simply existing as they are when it's always made into a mean spirited joke.
Please don't use the term "cis" to describe yourself. That term was coined by a literal pedophile. "Cisgender" is not a real word. Just say you're straight, dawg.
This was kind of a weird episode to me. Not really my least favorite, but still weird. And I'm sure the team that worked on this episode meant no harm or anything, but it sure felt dated in today's age, with trans people being more accepted since the 2010s. Also a bit of a shame that it had to be paired with "Cake 'Splosion", one of my absolute favorite episodes of MML (I'm a huge Milanda fan). A really cute, shippy episode that goes high, then brought all the way down with this rather dissonant, transmisogynist (at least in retrospect) ...thing. As for Billy Bison, I thought he was kinda okay? Not really funny, but also kinda inoffensive IMO. I personally think connecting him to Jame Gumb from Silence of the Lambs is a bit of a stretch and assuming that the writers were intentionally harming trans people with this episode (while I don't want to devalue anyone's feelings towards this, I also think assuming the worst out of people for writing a bad episode isn't good either). To me, it makes more sense if Billy Bison was a reference to the actual, historical Buffalo Bill from the 19th century, rather than the Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs (to be honest, I never really made any connection to "Billy Bison" and "Buffalo Bill" until now either). This, because other historical "ancestor" characters shown or referenced appear to be from the 19th century Wild West: Jackie from "The Wilder West" introduced herself as the great-great-great-great-great-granddaughter of Calamity Jane (who actually worked with Buffalo Bill before); and Milo's ancestor, the "first Murphy's Law", appears to be a sheriff from 1875 (as revealed in "The Race"), as opposed to Edward J. Murphy from the 20th century. But, that's just me...
see I'd agree that it was a stretch if it wasnt for the fact that the episode was already a sort of homage to tootsie and was already making very specific jabs towards transfeminine people. it is very possible that it was unintentional! but we dont know what their intentions were when writing the idea for buffalo bill and considering what lady krillers is, dwampy's past jokes, and their tendency to reference older movies in their works, i would be remissed to not point out this connection. in any case thanks for watching!
@@MarieMoments335 Oh, hi, Marie. Fancy seeing you here. I hope you’re well, though honestly, regarding this video’s subject matter, I can understand if you’re not.
I assume reason nobody stopped to question if it was okay is because this trope has been extremely common in a multitude of media. Most of the writers likely just thought of it as some crossdressing joke rather than a shot at the Trans community. It's been done a hundred times in other shows/movies and they received no flack(although some are fairly older and red pilled so not much you can say there), but even then I really doubt the people who were making the episode were directly being spiteful.
I agree. It didn’t occur to me until watching this video that it actually is pretty offensive. I’m trans myself but having grown up in a transphobic environment (and being transphobic when I was younger) I can still be pretty tone deaf to this kind of thing.
Yeah this is just a normal joke. Literally no one cared until conservatives started hyper-focusing on trans people in 2015. Up until then "cis man secure in his masculinity dresses up like a woman" was just a funny thing to do. Rarely the core premise of a joke, but an amusing accent to one, like Brian's mother from Life of Brian, or every WKUK sketch. And notably, it wasn't funny when it was a trans woman who was dressing as a woman, because part of the comedy is making "dressing in women's clothes" appear to be a masculine thing.
Absolutely INCREDIBLE video, your empathy and language in this video is astonishing and resonated with me deeply, my concerns and feelings felt seen. Thanks for this amazing video, fam! /vpos
I'm asexual and I agree with another comment that your part about perry being ace and it was the "safe" option was kinda hurtful to imply it's less lgbt than other lgbt identities. I can understand your viewpoint granted but I think a better criticism about Perry being ace is that he's an animal. If they made a human character ace that would be different but they went with an animal for representation, even if Perry is just as smart as other human characters. They could have made Candace, Jeremy, Vanessa, Doof, etc ace but they made just perry ace
Something that's bothering me is that people are saying "oh they only said Perry was ace." When the question, presented in this video, was specifically asking about Perry. They specifically wanted to know if Perry was queer to which Dan replies "does asexual count" leading me to believe Perry was actually ace and he wasn't sure if ace was queer. I feel like Perry being ace was intentional and not simply "safe" but a way to give a character a "reason" to not be in a relationship. Which further goes to show that aces are already misunderstood and need rep, however small. Also, Perry is like one of the most popular characters in the show and is often unnoticed without his hat, which I mean....the accidental symbolism of ace invisibility is funny.
i always thought this episode was odd and so out of place compared to the rest in fact i often skip this one , and most of season two and that one epiosde where the app makes loud noises that hurt, i wish there was a warning for anyways. but yess the whole playing on the joke of playing a different gender to get ahead is something not taken lightly especially since a lot of transphobic people will be like ohhh they cant be women they will get ahead because testosterone makes them perform better bs. like ughhh
While the transmisogny is very important to talk about in this episode, I think it’s also important to mention just the general misogyny of the premise as well. The female remake in the episode is seen as a diversity cash grab with no thought to the plot of the original, mirroring popular sentiment on diverse reboots. This framework when taken to its extreme can cast any diversity in any movie as non-genuine and ‘woke’. As well, we see Tobias struggling financially due to the recast. This implies white and cis male actors suffer and lose roles due to diverse casting, while in reality diverse casting just allows a larger variety of people to reach that wealth and fame.
I’m kinda glad I never saw this episode, because it feels really uncomfortable I imagine. MML is the awkward middle child between P+F and Hamster and Grettle (amazing show btw, it won Dan’s daughter an Emmy), I am hopeful that we’ll see great things in the new seasons, and I do hope Hamster can continue as well, I’ve really enjoyed it
I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to have a male character who dresses feminine, but it needs to clearly in reference to drag or femboys. Much like what Ella said, The way that tobias/tobina is depicted at first is pretty tame, but the song comes from negative transfem stereotypes. If it was just supposed to be a character in drag, then they never would have included jokes about shaving and sudden strength/aggression, going in women’s spaces, etc. Thank you for this video, it’s amazingly well done for a first video!
Why, though? It's not uncommon in real life for entirely cishet men to put on women's clothing for a laugh, particularly on stag dos and at halloween parties. Drag is a performance art and "femboy" is an identity, those aren't the same thing as is going on in this story, which is about a man who isn't a drag artist or a femboy attempting to trick people into thinking he's female for money.
The one episode I've never seen of the show. My local torrent site straight skipped it, and I never found it. (Love and miss the show otherwise, even with it's periodical stinkers.)
One thing I'd like to see someday is a "man in the dress reveal" where even psot-reveal somebody still treats them like no reveal. "Here is your hair back Tobina, take five to recover from being struck by whatever that was and we will resume with your audition after." Imagine that.
6:37 Nothing he said was wrong. Doctor Strange 2's script was literally being written on set as they were filming, studios don't give a fuck as long as it makes money.
FINALLY somebody talks about this episode!! I was a fan of MML back in late 2020 and I remember being absolutely disgusted by this episode's transmisogyny. Great video, keep it up :)
lol, why so many dislikes? Edit: Ok, now Im caught up but wtf? The "safe" option bit was even but in quotation marks, how did people not understand what was meant there? D:
One additional reference in this episode may be during the dress up scene with the big wig and leopard print top, I think that outfit is suppose to be a reference to the character Peg from Married with Children. So not a great reference to choose since this character is not a positive portray (which is expected from a satire comedy like Married with Children, but not Milo Murphy's Law)
Awesome video! Thank you for shedding light on this really uncomfortable episode. This is kind of a tangent, but when you showed double-trouble it reminded me of something. It feels like the only representation of genderfluidity within media is characters that shapeshift. It's alot like that trope where the only representation of a minority in a show is represented with non-human characters. It's so frustrating as a genderfluid person, like I wish I could see more of the variety of the LGBTQIA+ community has to offer within my favorite shows. The animated media landscape is slowly improving with queer representation, but there's so much to work on as seen in your essay. Anyways, I look forward to anything from you in the future :D
If you're looking for genderfluid rep, I think there's a genderfluid character in Zoey's Extraordinary playlist! As long as you don't mind the musical format, I don't think there's any weird gender magic going on there haha
i wondered, when looking at the thumbnail and title, why i had absolutely no memory of this episode concidering i loved the show. the fact that it was likely pulled over here explains that a lot
I don’t actually think the Futurama episode is transphobic and would even wager to say it leans more positive. The character who does it is Bender and everyone knows Bender is horrible lmao and everyone’s reactions to it and the jokes surrounding it for the most part are at Bender’s expense and why what he’s doing is terrible, not about how being trans is terrible. He even learns and grows (as much as Bender can) from the experience)
hello! there should be subtitle track set up now, timed to the best of my ability. thank you so much again for watching! this project has been in the works for a very long time and i am very happy about the response its received so far. it means a lot to me that others have felt similar to how i feel about this episode and i'm happy that it's opened up the discussion i've always wanted. :') i don't have any immediate plans for more videos, but if anything happens with regard to this video like a response from dan and swampy, I'll probably talk about that. otherwise...maybe a behind the scenes of sorts? i dunno LOL. thank you once again for watching! have a good evening :]
Tbh, I won't be surprised if one of the writers who made this episode worked for the PPG (2016). Because I heard one episode was panned by many for ruining a interesting character. Also, out of all the cartoons I've seen, that show literally destroyed the careers for some crew members.
I am also Agender but I don't label myself as transgender. I watched this episode a few years back and I remember having mixed feelings about it, my main expression was probably rolling my eyes. I don't think they meant harm but I'm glad you're raising awareness for this. Hopefully in the future videos like this don't have to be made anyways but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part.
That is NOT why ghostbusters reboot was hated. It was a crap movie that insulted an old classic, that is why. If the movie was good people would have liked it and the complaints about the genderswap would have been background noise. But it was horrible. I can't believe I've run into someone in the wild who actually pulls the woman card unironically to defend that reboot. And yeah, I'm saying that as a woman. If anything it made me embarrassed to be a woman, it was like it just existed to justify the stereotype that female comedians aren't funny.
Good video. I never saw this episode of Milo Murphy. I was a big fan of Phineas & Ferb as a kid but Ive only seen parts of Milo Murphy, mostly in season 1. As a non-binary person, Im not surprised by a mainstream show making stereotypical jokes like this. The UA-cam channel Lily Simpson has an entire video series talking about how trans and gender non-conforming people are depicted in popular media. Jokes like this are unfortunately very common. I don't necessarily think the shows creators were trying to be malicious, to me it seems like this is coming from a place of ignorance more than anything. In regards to Perry the Platypus being ace, I think that was mostly just to shut down people interpreting Perry as being gay. Through the show, Perry and Dr Doofenshmirtz slowly go through an arc becoming close friends. Men having close friendships with other men is seen as effeminate and weird so it is very common for shows to make "bromance" jokes about those male friends being "too close". "Isn't it funny when men have human emotions and form close bonds with others." These types of jokes often involve playing up how these friends "act like a couple". Perry and Dr Doofenshmirtz get a lot of these kinds of jokes. Based on some of these jokes, some people online have interpreted Perry as being possibly gay for Dr Doof, which wasn't the intention of the creators. Death of the author, people can interpret things however they want. But does anyone think they would ever confirm an interspecies, same sex relationship like this in a Disney cartoon. They were just jokes. The reality of it is, many cishet men (even many allies) think its "kinda gay" to have a close friendship with other men. Traditional Masculinity is defined by stoicism and self reliance. "Feelings are for women". Jokes like this are so common because it relieves the inherent tension many cishet men feel if they become too emotionally vulnerable with a guy friend. Jokes like this are the duct tape that holds to together the fragile masculinity than many men have. As an AMAB person, I can tell you how harmful it can be to a person's mental health to try and live up to these old fashioned ideas of masculinity. I can also tell you how freeing it can be to move past them.
thank you for watching! 100% agree on the "bromance" stuff!!! thank you for putting it into words. i have always found the bromance jokes in p&f to be uncomfortable in a sense and i could never quite formulate why it irked me so. buford and baljeet get them too!
I remember seeing that episode and laughing at a couple of bits,I dont think there was any ill intentions.Its a cartoon after all,you shouldn't take it too seriously
@@sandwichqueen I really feel like nobody should be taking this video seriously when the primary "source" is an opinion piece with a clear bias in favor of trans victim labeling.
@@Double_DAW The phrase "the primary 'source'" doesn't actually make sense in this context - you're watching a video essay explaining harmful tropes perpetrated, albeit likely unintentionally, by a tv show episode. If anything, the primary source would be the episode which is analyzed and deconstructed throughout the video. Past that, the phrase "trans victim labeling" is as clownish as it is incomprehensible. I strongly suggest that you find something better to do with your time than watch videos which you know are going to annoy you.
Lady Krillers was such a bad episode that it made me give up on season 2 of MML altogether. It wasn't the only thing, but it was the final straw. It just felt so mean-spirited... Anyway, thanks for making this video! It's very slickly made, can't believe it's your first video essay :)
I haven't watched mml, but I am a huge fan of pnf, and this was an unpleasant surprise to hear about. But as a Nonbinary person I do agree that I'd be happy with an acknowledgement of the situation and a promise to do better going forwards. Very well made video, thank you.
You're pretty brave talking about this, especially because it's about a big creator with a positive online presence on a subject such as transphobia. Dan's got a history of stuff like this and I feel like he gets "wholesome"ified by the majority of his audience who look over it, which is hurtful to us in the trans community. He's a person and has his own skeletons to work on, obviously. I wonder if this type of stuff will show up in the upcoming P&F show...
Considering one of his kids now uses they/them pronouns, I’m gonna assume he’s not like this right now, so it probably won’t show up in new PnF seasons
Thank you for your research and bravery posting this. It is scary to come out and make a point, but if no one does it, no discourse happens. So thank you for speaking out
damn, for this being the first youtube video youve ever made like this, you did fantastic. had you not said that i woulda taken you for someone whos been doing this for a long time
Exactly this. I wish i found this comment before making a several paragraph long response to someone else in the comments here lol, it summed up my thoughts pretty well
I have to admit, I had no idea a Phineas and Ferb spin-off even existed prior to stumbling on this essay! Disappointing first impression! I really enjoyed watching this though. I think you gathered your thoughts and presented them really well, and I look forward to what you will write in the future! I think it's a little shocking so many people think the Buffalo Bill/Bison Billy connection is a stretch! I get the feeling that these commenters did not live through the 1990's as a transgender person. Back then, Buffalo Bill and Lt. Einhorn were the transgender representation that everyone was aware of, and these two were so commonly referenced as such in pop culture and day to day life. Jeff Marsh and Dan Povenmire were born in 1960 and 1963 respectively, so to think that a Buffalo Bill reference is coincidence in this episode is a stretch seems about as far fetched to me as thinking that it's a stretch that the episode was written with Tootsie and Ghostbusters (2016) in mind. That is to say, not a stretch at all. I think it's very likely that the writers were thinking "oh, like Buffalo Bill!" And what I see from that scene is an ironic apology video, something else that doesn't feel like an accident. That part of the episode, to me, feels like the writing room saying, "sorry, we're not sorry, but we might get canceled, so here's a fake apology video." Like you said, "I just want an apology." I hope the comments from the masses never discourage you. You're a good writer with astute analysis. I'm looking forward to what you have to say next. I hope you'll write about something that makes you really happy too, but it's your channel with your direction. And I really hope you accomplish your dream of finding your way into the animation industry.
super unrelated but the Homestuck music made me check my other tabs to make sure i only had one video playing lol especially elevatorstuck since i have a permanent elevatorstuck tab for some reason
man this hurts, i never watched MML because it was after my time of watching pretty much everything that was on the kids channels, but i watched phineas and ferb all the time, ive probably seen almost every episode. really hurts that they thought this was okay at all (especially as recently as 2018), and the way it sheds some light on some previous comments or things in the shows and all that. you like to believe the people and things who brought you so much joy when you were younger are all good _because_ they brought that joy, but it sucks that thats often far from true. it really, really hurts to find out how much a lot of them would, for one reason or another, not like you just because of what you are. i didnt choose to be trans, but i am choosing to try to be happy. sucks that they cant catch up i guess also i have to hope that the writer of that episode is less bad about that stuff now, as he seems to have gone on to write for the monster high cartoon, and thats a really progressive and accepting cartoon that literally has a nonbinary main character, though i cant speak for the specific episodes hes written for and how they handle these kind of things, since i dont remember what happens when they happen yknow, but ive yet to notice anything bad in the show when it comes to minorities and especially queer people. great video, it made me sad but thats not your fault, thats the shows fault. im glad you brought it to attention and made this video about it that clearly showed how much care you had (and how much care the makers of that episode didnt have...)
I do not remember this episode and as a trans person it is quit empty. The transphobia seems kind of accidental, or more rather just ignorant than trying to be hateful. And with that... it doesn't even say anything. Man in a dress? Yep. That happens. Is it good, bad? This show doesn't know. It doesn't know what its doing. It just got caught up in itself and no one stopped it for some reason.
It doesn't really matter if it's on accident or not. When I was a kid, I stole a toy from the store. I didn't know I was doing anything wrong, but I still committed a crime, and my parents made me return it and apologize. I'm glad they held me accountable because it helped me learn that I did something wrong, and to be better. I don't think the writers were trying to be misogynistic, but they were, and I hope at least some of the people who worked on that episode can see this video and learn to be better
The show does know what a “man in a dress” is and clearly says it’s bad as there is a whole song dedicated to calling Tobias ugly when he is dressed feminine though. Yes this was probably just out of ignorance and outdated humor, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful and it deserves criticism.
I feel the need to clarify the "safe" LGBT+ rep bit I made in the video regarding my criticism of Perry being asexual. No, I do not think asexuality should actually be considered the "safe alternative" to other identities, I was saying that in regards to how *Dan might have thought about it* when he made the "Does asexual count?" comment on TikTok. I even say at 20:03 that the idea of asexuality being considered a "safe alternative" *isn't great and has its own problems*, which I briefly listed at 20:05. I understand that ace representation is few and far in-between, but I also believe that it is not above some criticism, especially when even the creator sounded unsure about it. I would love for the show to expand or mention Perry's asexuality in some meaningful way in the continuation coming later this year.
I am also not an ace exclusionist, I was there for the Tumblr discourse in the mid-10s as a lurking inclusionist (and asexual person) and I do not like seeing it relived in my comment section, so I really hope this clarifies some things. This video has blown up way more than I ever hoped or expected and it is all quite overwhelming to say the least! I am not above criticism either, but please be aware that I too am a person and read your comments. Please remember your humanity.
EDIT: The South Asian creator I mentioned around 26:00, htmljones, is actually a trans woman and uses she/her pronouns! I was not aware of this beforehand, and I apologize for the goof-up.
Once again, thank you for watching and thank you for reading this.
(P.S. I use they/he pronouns.)
Honestly it was a correct statement regardless, asexuality is brought up constantly and used a lot but with no effort put into the actual identity. They just make them a robot and say "heres your rep, now get out". Same with non binary for the exact sams reason, lazy writers just make them a robot and call it a day.
I think people wanted to take the worst faith interpretation out of what you said for conflict engagement.
I'm asexual and I had the exact same thought I'm glad you could explain my feelings
As an ace, thanks for clearing up. I knew what you meant but most people misinterpreted it
Offended by one sentence out of a 30 minute video.. Y'all this is why people hate us
18:25 Never knew that they said it 😮 I couldn't find any footage/audio of them saying it before but thanks for providing proof!
Every time I see this show I forget that Weird Al plays Milo
wait really
@@ma_gicianyes
This cannot be true
Wait wtf
@@thesnowmiser6728 It is!!
Doof shoulda just gotten his own show.
EXACTLY why did they do milo murphys law smh
@@ftg-n8n with Vanessa and her friends as the B plot. Would've been cute.
agreed. It could've even had the same premise his segments had in Milo Murphy, but Doof totally took away from Milo's show.
Technically he did have his own show!
@@camillievampire You mean OWCA Files? it was just a pilot
I'm a cisgender woman, and when I was 12, my leg hair started growing in.
My mom had showed me Mrs. Doubtfire, a treasured childhood movie of hers. When I looked down at my hairy legs up until I first shaved, I would think of the scene on the bus in Mrs. Doubtfire when there's a closeup of "Mrs. Doubtfire's" legs, and the bus driver said something like, "We're all made special." It gave me the impression that the hair on my legs was a manly trait, and the only reason I had a problem with that is that it contradicted how I liked to express myself very femininely. When I first started watching this video I thought something along the lines of, "What's the big deal? It just seems like a Mrs. Doubtfire-like storyline," Now it's got me thinking, maybe that's the problem. Maybe this trope is so old that there are people to whom it is normalized like how I initially reacted and they don't see the hateful concepts it was created out of.
exactlyyyy 🔥🔥
Just shave your legs, it's not that complicated
@@KvltKommando why?
@@KvltKommando Bro, why? You know how expensive razors are? How much time it takes to do that shit? You probably dont cause your a man, but its a real hassle when youre "supposed" to do it. Imagine someone says that shit to you when you dont want to do shit. "Just do the thing you hate, not that complicated." Basically, "do the thing you hate because I am uncomfortable with women complaining about unresonable expectations"
Bro, it is that complicated. Shave your legs for a couple of years, consitantly. See how it feels. Then, watch how people react to you, calling you "feminine" for having shaved legs.
Plus, shaved legs feel dry and gross to some people. In know I was forced to shave my legs as a young child and I have constant dry and itchy legs. When I stpped shaving, dude, my legs felt fucking natural. Like dude, shaving your legs was not only a hassle, but the constant shame when I didnt shave was difficult. Took me years to just be chill with myself and to say no to my parents. Now my legs look strange because the hair follicles are damaged, but at least I dont have to waste time and money on shaving.
"Its not that complicated"
I have told you how it is and disproved your statement with my perspective. thank you
@@KvltKommando dude just lookup the Pink Tax.
Not only do women have to make the extra expense of buying razors and shaving cream meant for your legs which are typically more expensive than men's products, it's also extra time and labor that women have to put in that men never have to. Especially since the expectation of smooth legs for women is so ingrained that a lot of jobs will require short shorts or skirts for female employees, whereas men will be allowed to wear shorts or even pants, with of course no pressure to me smooth.
you made some good points but i think saying that asexual is a "safe" way for characters to be lgbt is a little uh... it sounds like youre saying we're juust not lgbt enough for our representation to even count as lgbt rep. it made me a little sad hearing that
Yeah. We still get "are aces queer" discourse yearly. We get such little rep, much less rep in kids media. Perry being ace is nice, not safe because our sexually it very often seen as not family friendly.
@@Stargazer_Ley but sex-less characters are family-friendly, no? the idea of gay sex is a lot more terrifying to homophobes than no sex.
It’s not that they’re the safe option because ace people aren’t queer enough. They’re a safe option because a company can just say “they’re ace” and not do anything with it. They don’t bother exploring the nuances of the ace experience and how asexuality can affect someone’s life. They just say “the character is ace” so they don’t have to add any actual meaningful representation.
It would be like saying “this character has an invisible disability” while they don’t explore how this disability affects the character’s life and then claiming to have disability rep.
@@kirbyspaladin9153homophobes still call asexual people predators, i do not think they care if the character is ace or gay or trans, they just care that they’re queer. to discuss being asexual.. sex kinda needs to be brought up, it is not a safe option cause not wanting sex is a rather large factor in being asexual (speaking in the most general explanation for asexual identity, i’m well aware its a spectrum of labels)
I think that's because many people don't know pretty much anything about asexuality. I'm aro ace agender and even those around me who understand the label very well (like my best friend) probably wouldn't know much about it if they didn't know me. Many people don't know what asexuality even is, many don't understand the difference between romantic and sexual orientation, some don't even believe asexuality exist - so for a large chunk of the audience ace characters will still be "basically straight" if they're heteroromantic or in a straight relationship. If a conservative parent sees a gay couple in the cartoon their kid is watching, they'll react negatively (read: either tell the kid not to watch it anymore or try to sue someone, depending on the individual). If they see an asexual character, they'll probably just dismiss them as straight because of their ignorance.
TL;DR: Aces are queer, our rep is queer rep, but many people know so little about asexuality that they won't see ace characters as queer. Some producers use it to get queer rep that won't be too "controversial" while still being queer rep, hoping that this lack of knowledge will prevent them from losing the bigoted part of the audience.
"Phineas & Ferb never punch down at all" I mean... there was Baljeet
Imma be honest, PnF had more Punching Down than one would realise at first glance.
And the episode where Phineas and Ferb briefly go to Japan…
he was funny
there's also no such thing as punching down, that implies different groups are "classes" which is a neo marxist assertion.
@@leejackson3268 do you live under a rock where discrimination doesnt exist
I have to agree about the punching down point. I loved Baljeet as a kid, but I have to recognize now that the character was kind of a racist stereotype of Asian people (physically weak, effeminate, obsessed with grades, etc.) I’m Asian, and it definitely kind of hurts to realize that the creators of something so close to your heart are laughing at you.
You realize the poor fat white kid was also placed in the bully stereotype with Buford, yeah?
I mean, I don't 100% agree that he was necessarily a racist stereotype because it is often true and isnt necessarily a bad thing. I also don't think think they had any bad intent with him too. (I'm asain btw). I totally see your point though.
@Shark-pj8in Nah saying that Asian boys are all super weak and care more about their looks or their grades rather than others is bad. Yes it's a joke that had no malice but it's still ignorance. The writer's aren't bad for writing like that, they really just didn't know how to write him like a person.
Dan Povenmire said somwhere (don't have a link sorry) that they changed the jokes about Baljeet in later seasons to avoid racism.
@@ben8557 W dan
20:33 - It is kinda weird to hear "I remember watching this as a little kid" about something from 2018, I guess we have different defitinions of "a little kid" lol
I was uhhhh 12 or 13 at the time I believe. Not like too young but tbh literally anything before Covid or maybe 2019 feels like “little kid era” for me LOL
@@MarieMoments335 Yeah, I kinda get you haha. For me "a little kid" stops at like 10, because then you are a tween and then a teen, so like, I get you. For a second I was like "Wait, is she like 14?" when you said that about being a little kid hahah
@@marleonka. Yeah fair LOL. I’m just about to be 19.
Reading this comment and thread made me feel 71 rather than 21 lol. Time really fucks with you; doesn’t feel that long ago that my (currently 12-year-old) brother was playing Minecraft with me on the Xbox 360.
its weird that i was taught at school "everyone under 18 is legally a child" which.. much like most, I'd consider less than 12 year olds to be that since 12+ starts being teen, but yeah that'd mean there's probably some people using "as a kid" to talk about them being like 15.
I'm a big MML fan but yeah, that episode sucked. Totally didn't expect that from a show that's usually so positive about different types of people
HE DRESSED UP AS A WOMAN CAUSE HE HAD TO BE IN A MOVIE!!!!!
HOW IS THAT TRANSPHOBIC 💀
@@Yoshdoes_stuff did you even watch the video? They explained that in the video.
Watch the video my guy@@Yoshdoes_stuff
it's explained in the video. Look specifically at the songs lyrics, that should be enough to show you why@@Yoshdoes_stuff
@@Yoshdoes_stuffright like this video it’s a bit of a reach
I don't believe there was any real ill will behind the episode, but it was an incredibly and I mean INCREDIBLY uncomfortable watch and I'm glad to see somebody put into perspective why. amazing video, I enjoyed a lot.
Yea none of it screams malice to me, just ignorance.
Yea, i totally agree. Looking back, it seems very odd.
Yeah I agree. Even though I hate the episode, I don't think there was any I'll will from Dan, Swampy or the crew at all. It's like the episode itself is basically a bad case of a combination of bad writing and ignorance.
Yeah, definitely seems more ignorant than actually hateful
I feel that theirs was a willfull ignorance in that they could have learned a lesson but chose to remain ignorant. And that sounds pretty malicious to me.
MML did get taken over by Doof and the only reason I was still watching was because of Cavandish and Dakota. Weird that show called Milo's Murphy's Law gave better attention to the side stories than the main titled character.
Yeah, I really wasn't a big fan of Doof taking over the show in Season 2. Felt like a crutch, among other things... It seems like they learned that lesson now with Hamster and Gretel staying self-contained to my knowledge but dang do I wish MML wasn't the guinea pig x_x
I mean, Phineas and Ferb wasn’t primarily about Phineas and Ferb either. The boys were basically just the setting, they were plot devices. While Perry, Doof and Candace being the actual main characters.
I know MML was structurally different in season 1, but I’m just saying that this team is no stranger to that kind of structure.
Why did you post two comments bruh 💀
@@eddie-roo Still no excuse. It was basically a ploy to get ratings, imagine not having confidence in your own show that you'll bring a popular character to save your show
@@acestenharls hm, there might be a better term for that than using a mobility aid as a negative connotation
My school used to have policies protecting the trans students so that they could be protected from bullying, being forced out of the closet to their parents, and being able to transition in school comfortably, but they got rid of those policies and now next year the trans kids in my school won't be protected anymore, which is genuinely scary since one of my friends can't come out to their parents without a lot of trouble happening and the fact that they only got rid of those policies because "trans people make them uncomfortable" makes me sick
Update: luckily they backtracked and the policies protecting trans kids are still in place, thank god they decided against getting rid of those policies
how in the world did they think that ''stop protecting children against bullying'' was a good idea? that sounds like the plan of a cartoonishly evil vilain on a kids book. i really cant believe theres real people that think like that
They need to stop focusing on stopping bullying for certain people and stop bullying to the best of their power in general.
my school banned both the confederate flag but also the pride flag to be "neutral". Serious bruh moment
Dude I wish someone was protecting me from bullying when I was a kid but I was cis and straight so
@@paulmccartneyofc6883 bullying shouldnt be allowed even if someone isnt gay.... theres no reason to have 2 different rules for the same behavior.
I love MML but this episode made me so uncomfortable and I haven't rewatched it since. It felt like a plot from the late 90s or early 2000s but way outdated by 2018.
Tbh, when Doof and Perry joined the show, the series went downhill real fast.
No offense, but they were much better in Phineas and Ferb.
ua-cam.com/video/C2tU90XPFlg/v-deo.htmlsi=6s0tcHkun3EMVj04
agreed, S2 was kinda a downgrade
and even though MML is generally better than Hamster and Gretel, the latter has my respect for actually making it's own identity, instead of riding off PnF's popularity @kootunesscrewy
15:48 im going to be honest this feel really like a strech
Tbh ist more posible that they choose billy bison beacuse it sounded better and there a lot of bisons in america
And as far as i rember billy bison never did act like a kid frendly buffalo bill even in the clips you showed he wasnt enjoying peopole being stomped by buffalos
Its more probable billy bison is just another joke that didnt land
This isn't just a stretch; this is medieval rack levels of stretching. It genuinely felt like a satirical joke about jumping to a conclusion and I expected there to be some kind of (albeit terribly executed and strawmanish) point about what the writers "did with trans people", but then it dawned on me that no, that was a totally serious theory about what Billy Bison was a "reference" to. That was the point in the video where my argumentative side just deflated because it realized that the entire basis of this video is essentially rage bait around split second perceptions of a kids show. Because this youtuber cannot fathom the concept of absurdist humor / pure comedy and assumes that everything must serve a purpose or agenda. The only joke that even had any clear jurisdiction of the writers' own feelings is the way the Hollywood execs are portrayed, which is an accurate representation of how modern Hollywood operates whether people like it or not. I knew this video was going to be hard to watch once they stated their primary source was an opinion piece written by a trans author (directly feeding into confirmation bias and echochambering), but between acting like the only issue with Ghostbusters 2016 was women (the issue was that they swapped existing characters for new all female leads that in turn also sucked, making the decision to do so seem really pointless since it didn't improve anything), and now assuming that a throwaway absurdist gag about a kid with a ridiculous power similar to the lead's own power... somehow being a reference to Silence of the Lambs??? I literally cannot take this video seriously anymore.
I haven’t watched This video yet, I’m just going down in the comments and seeing the general consensus and that last line about Silence of the Lambs hit me like a fucking brick lmao???
@@Bliffenstimmers watch the video, it’ll turn from a brick to the most hilarious truck you’ve ever seen.
Its a reference to Buffalo Bill Cody.
@@Double_DAW
Edit: One comment summed up my thoughts perfectly: "I feel like they could've done an episode making fun of reboots and the death of creativity without a crossdressing plot[.]" I think this is the crux here, that the majority of the episode was completely unnecessary and used off putting humor.
While that whole section about billy bison was a stretch, trying to dumb down the entire video to rage bait is a bit crazy? I think the video started out strong, with a straightforward analysis of the plot, specific jokes, and how they translate into forms of commonplace transphobia towards trans women.
FIrst off, I wouldnt call the primary source of the entire video from that one book. I would say that the primary source is the general discussion around trans women and how specifically harmful representations of them have permanently made their ways into media, such as this episode. In fact, discussion about this topic specifically is the point of this entire video and many others that discuss other pieces of media that contain transphobic views and stereotypes. The book referenced is meant to explain where the term "transmisogyny" comes from and give context to the following discussion. I would go so far as to say that the entire video being based on an "opinion piece" is a stretch in itself.
The concept of "men pretending to be women" to get things they want, i.e. into womens spaces (bathrooms/locker rooms). win sports, sick kicks or a kink, etc, that entire talking point is the single largest weapon against trans women in media. Calling trans women nothing more than predators and men in dresses is harmful at best and undeniably transphobic, since instead of just not taking the identity seriously, they dont acknowledge it at all. This take on trans women has even become commonly known stereotype. And almost every time trans women are in a comedic situation in media, which he references in the video, it comes down to disgust or ridicule of trans women as men in dresses who are obviously ugly, need tons of makeup to be attractive at all, and just act as women to deceive. It never stops at just calling them men in dresses, it always takes that additional step farther. I'd say that the song in this show's episode especially is cartoonishly representative of these sentiments, to a T, even comparing the beauty of a man in a dress to a bag of flour or traffic causing. So this, at base, is grounds for a serious topic of discussion instead of just a book written by a trans author. This video is also not rage bait. Content like this never seeks to attack the show/movie involved, writers team, or execs, but instead aims to ask how or why it happened and examine what happened in the first place. As far as I can tell, this youtuber doesnt intend to rile anybody up either and shows genuine concern for something this uncomfortable being not just in any childrens show, but a show by the same team behind one of the most universally loved childrens shows of all time.
Ironically, the additional theme of media producers in hollywood making literally whatever they want and passing genuinely terrible scripts with no regard to their substance may have been a meta commentary on the entire episode, especially since the same concerns this youtuber has about the writers room happen to be the same concerns Milo had in-universe when he questioned the exec about the movie's continuity. Its also possible that this entire episode serves as a meta critique of how ridiculous the plot of Tootsie was, and that the notion that men can/will/do masquerade as women just for personal benefit of some kind is also ridiculous, and that viewing trans people in that light is equally ridiculous. And while either of those explanations would be great shows of writing, I honestly cant give this show that kind of credit for complex writing, on top of that second possibility being a HUGE stretch. Its not that deep, so that only really leaves the transphobic explanation since its the simplest answer and the easiest way to read this. Basically, from a transphobic point of view or not, the audience is, without a doubt, supposed to read this episode with (negative) reference to trans women.
The point about ghostbusters 2016 having an all womens cast being brought up at all was because of the additional theme of directors and producers in hollywood doing whatever they want and how in the episode, they do exactly that to a movie and this kickstarts the plot for the rest of the runtime. I think the real world criticisms of Ghostbusters 2016 are a lot more complicated than just a bad cast switch, but thats not relevant to any argument anyone here has made (you, me, or the youtuber) so im not going to add anything there.
I dont think you should completely discredit the video because of one (very large) stretch. Its a short part of the video and I dont think it does anything to discredit the observations and analysis that came before that section, or the unfiltered reactions of real trans people who add their own takes towards the end. It may slightly discredit the youtuber but I feel that the rest of the points still stand and are worth thinking about. Im still confused why you had trouble taking the video seriously to start and naturally felt argumentative the entire time, but the video genuinely has substance and deserves a more serious watch.
The bison bit was a HUUUGGEEE reach, it’s just a silly addition to the episode
Fr tho
thats what i was thinking tbh
Its hard to say is a complete concidence since the episode does feature a man dressing as a woman, the names are fairly similar (Buffalo Bill - Billy Bison), as well as this being Billy's only apperance. It feels like an afterthought gag but definetly intentional.
And it just so happens to be in the transphobic episode and ends with a buffalo trampling the man in a dress. Ok.
this entire video is a reach
I gotta say, I think a lot of this video was a stretch (my personal opinion) i am trans, but this Video is about a man in a dress, a muscular, masculine character who identifies as a man, Who is NOT trans, i dont see it as Transphobia, I mean i didnt exactly Like the episode, it fell flat, the most problimatic thing is the song, because Oof those lyrics CUT DEEP. And the Billy bison thing is a HUGE stretch, But i dont see this episode as being transphobic, because the character isnt trans, its a trope used In many many TV shows. But this is all my personal opinion! There is some actual Transphobic things in cartoons, like in family Guy when Glenns Parent transitions, that character is transgender and getting made fun of and put down for it, that is what i would say transphobia truly looks like in cartoons. This episode did not age perfectly though, i do agree with that.
The problem isn’t the character being trans, it’s the “man in dress” trope that is transphobic in itself by saying “haha, man cannot wear dress! Only woman wear dress! Very funny”
@@uranian-Umbratrans women aren’t men tho
@stellanovaluna that's what makes it transphobic though? A transphobic caricature is always going to portray trans women as men in dresses, because thats what they see trans women as, there can be good crossdressing representation but this is not it at all, there's like no difference between this and every other trans misogynist caricature in media, it's "man pushes himself into women's spaces by pretending to be woman by putting on a dress and makeup and high pitched voice, and it's hilarious how ugly he looks"
you realize you're being transphobic, right...? @@uranian-Umbra
@@stellanovalunaThey aren't but the fact that we view someone who may look masculine as ugly as soon as they try to fall in line with feminine beauty standards is harmful not just to trans women but cis as well. It doesn't help that transphobes find trans women inherently masculine and or men in dresses.
In my opinion, Dan is just misguided, i mean if i was a boomer, i may not know what trans rights are, research and learning is needed, and I'm glad you're not shitty towards them.
I agree, his is transphobia and his mysogyny are both very boomer.
I agree he deserves to be called out and educated on why what he did was wrong as he seems like a sweet guy who doesn’t mean any harm he’s just a product of his time, and With proper education I could believe he’d be an ally. I for one always think those who unintentionally screw up deserve to be educated and have redemption as opposed to being canceled, only those who intentionally screw up to be bigoted on purpose deserve to be canceled without an attempt at educating them to join our side or see the era of their ways.
To often the interns cares less about helping those who screw up, and by extension stopping the behavior by addressing its roots, and more about pointing a finger blaming them, and canceling them.
@@chinchilla0708 If you mean that his jokes are outdated and "unintentionally transphobic joke" is boomer behavior, then yeah.
@@drawingfandome you know what? I agree with you on that one. As evident on his Rebecca Sugar video and how he treats them, doesn't seem hostile either compared to how some of his fans who dunks on them and compared Dan to them.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 I mean, not that it is, but not all people are informed at this point especially if you live in an older generation. There will be some adjustments based on where they are from in that time period, all I'm saying is that people like him deserves a chance to explain at least or at least needs to learn or to be educated on the matter.
I do think he deserves to be called out at least, but his stances are not 100 right, and yes, it's also deserving to hear some apology or response from him.
yo we as a group didn't like the Ghostbusters movie because of the poor writing, not the full cast of women, i think we SHOULD and NEED to see more movies with full women casts but they usually do poor writing with those kind of movies.
If you want to see all-female casts and good writing, you need to be looking at what Japan's making. Americans still struggle with this because they're mostly already bad writers and they're trying to write something they have no experience or good reference material for.
As serious as the rest of the video was; them saying they didn't need to watch it to know why it was hated is almost a direct quote from the people who made it who were harassing people online; who were making valid points about the writing, and lumping them in with the small minority of people who were actually sexist. That group will always exist and I can't take people seriously who boil a movie or other thing's success or failure down to something that doesn't happen anymore. If a movie gets a lot of attention; good or bad, it will find an audience in those who watch and enjoy it. If everyone hates it because of the writing that probably means it has bad writing.
Anyway, sorry for ranting. Thought that subject needed more attention. Good luck out there, everyone. Much love.
@@jabberwockjester1455 /Vigger
i think the problem lies in that the main drive of the idea is "full woman cast" and pretty much forget about proper writing/plot because that's secondary, not the "selling point"
Which sucks. It really sets all these kind of movies up for failure.
especially redoing a pre-existing series for the sake of it..something original with an all female cast is just cooler, let alone if it has actually decent writing
hey just a quick correction, the depp v heard trial was NOT a domestic abuse trial! it was a defamation trial!
Cut them some slack, reactionaries struggle with basic facts, but they're doing their best.
it was also her abusing him, not the other way around
@@leejackson3268 doesn't matter who was right or wrong in that trial. The subject of that trial was abuse still
@@leejackson3268 *BUZZER SOUND BWAAHHH*
@@sadtimesalways?
People thinking the creator hates asexuals when they literally say they’re asexual themselves the line before.
THAT’S WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING
yeah but considering there's been a lot of transphobic gay people lately, that doesn't really make him look any better.
@@jadenjerries2094 this is different it would be like a homophobic gay tell me when you've seen that
generaliition
@@jadenjerries2094 Okay but there's transphobic gay people not homophobic gay people or transphobic trans people.
I also think the asexual line was very weird but I don't think the author of the video hates asexual people that's too far.
I'm ace, and "does asexual count?" is the kind of thing I could see myself saying back in 2018 if randomly asked by a person on the internet to please tell them if one of my characters who I had no planned romantic plotlines for was LGBTQ. (Don't want "lazy" rep? Don't ask creators for representation info they haven't offered themselves.) There's so little knowledge and many misconceptions out there about asexuality that it's hard for me to blame anyone who just seems to not get it.
I heard this argument back in the day that "ace people aren't lgbt because they're not being oppressed for their sexuality" and I think that's incorrect. A lot of people, especially women, are pressured and even forced into marriage. I think it's easier to be ace compared to being gay but to say ace people don't count is like saying gay people don't count because they don't have it as bad as trans people. It's no a suffering contest.
I think there are some sexualities and gender identities that don't automatically make you queer. I consider the terms demisexual, demiromantic, demiboy, demigirl, and grayasexual to fall under those categories. Your sexuality and gender may differ from the norm but if you're an amab straight demiboy demisexual it kind of puts you in a strange spot where you're almost queer but not quiet. (Just to be clear I'm not referring to ace people who have sex. It's not about who you date or who you have sex with it's about your attraction when it comes to sexuality. What I'm saying is if you're straight you have straight privilege, regardless if you're only straight under specific circumstances)
It ultimately doesn't matter what counts as queer anyways. I consider allies part of our community and while they're not one of us they are more than welcome to join in. Plus it comes with a cool flag.
@@BlissAnimations that's not an example of asexual repression, it's an example of male bigotry and a complete objectification of women. A woman isn't automatically asexual if she doesn't want to be forced into marriage, you tunnel-visioned identity alchemist.
yeah it's hard to be mad at someone who is literally asking questions. do people want others to be confused???
I've recently come out as trans to my family, and although they were very accepting and loving, I'm scared of what'll happen if I publicly say I'm trans, especially with which US state I live in, which is highly aggressive towards transgender people. I rarely leave my house, but it's still scary to think about.
Me and my mom have been thinking of moving to Europe, because we both dislike living in America.
I just you grow out of that mindset
If you're ever planning on moving to Europe, Sweden is a nice place to live. Beautiful scenery, a decent economy, and a very high positivity towards the LGBTQ. Plus, free healthcare and politicians who aren't AS dumb.
where in Europe? They aren't exactly all accepting either.
@@Somirage143 I'll keep that in mind! Thank you! ^^
You will find that kind of problem in all Countriest and States. Sure some are more tamer or aggressive, but Discrimination is all over the world.
Dang, this video left me with some conflicting feelings, to say the least. Everything you mentioned (except for the Buffalo Bill thing because that kinda felt like a reach) is just... yikes. I still like the shows, and I don't believe any real malice was intended, but... yeah...
I really feel like it more came from ignorance. But yeah... so uncomfortable...
Fully agreed on the Buffalo Bill part, I feel like that was one of the most badly written sections of a video essay I’ve ever heard
I'm gonna say this on as many comments as I can: Its a reference to the bison hunter and showman from the late 1800s, Buffalo Bill Cody.
@@Saf333 I dont think its ignorance, I think its lgbt illiteracy, they are two different things, I feel like the video is reaching because the butt of the joke is that he clearly doesnt identify as a woman and doesnt make the effort to try and be more feminine, just like you see in bugs bunny or whatever old cartoons you may find, the joke is that it's abrupt, silly and identifiable, things that do not at all coorelate with trans women, I understand it can be percieved as offensive, but I think people are projecting their idea that trans women are like that/look like that if they think it's offensive, I speak on my POV that I don't believe trans women look like what he did while cross dressing
@@Kiko-es6xx yeah I'm 100% in the opinion that if you think trans women don't look like women and project that onto cartoons and the like, that says a lot more about YOU than it does the creators
tobina isnt even ugly that first song was so rude
🧢
@@deadbum hmm... baseball cap? so base is slang for truth/authentic (based in reality) baller is slang for something very good and fun, but no-cap is slang for truth authentic, leaving cap and capping to mean not authentic
so you're saying baseball cap.. real fun lies?
well i think that's a bit crass. tobina isn't ugly, she's just handsome (which can apply to women and used to be a compliment for women in the 1800s)
B.i.t.c.h.p.l.e.a.s.e.c.r.y.q.u.i.e.t.l.y.
@@gingermaniac5484words change. Hope this helps! ❤
eeeh...
as a longtime fan of pnf/mml, this video is awesome. dan and swampy have a looooong history of being transmisogynistic in their various medias and you explain it so well here. i really hope that this video can gain more attention so ppl can understand how transmisogyny can manifest in media, especially the 'subtle' ways.
thank you for including transfem voices in this video as well. its really obvious that you did your research well, and that alone is enough, and you still took the time to get more opinions. i really appreciate the varied opinions you added!
i also love how you added the part about perrys "asexuality" being a safe alternative to him being canonically gay. it frustrates me when people count him as "good ace rep" when dan and swampy clearly are avoiding the question.
your inclusion and analysis of the current moral panic involved is really well done too, thank you for including that.
hopes and prayers that dan and swampy watch this video 🙏
thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed comment :'0!!! to me it would have felt something was missing if i didnt include any trans peoples takes, esp on the feminine side of things. i also hope this makes people think about how transmisogyny ends up in things, intentionally or otherwise!
re: perry's "asexuality" yeah thats been bugging me for a loooong time. i wanted to make a separate video about it but i think i'm happy with my brief take on it in this. perry is asexual to me but in the gay-ace way and that was my headcanon way before dan "confirmed" the ace part. as it stands it just feels a little....dumbledore-y if you catch my drift LOL.
as depressing as it is to talk about the moral panic, it had to be. especially since things have gotten.........worse since i started putting this together x_x.
if dan and swampy ever do see this i WILL lose my mind. i hope they take it to heart and listen at the very least.
this comment is frustrating at the very least.
i think dwampyverse media is the last thing that should be used to educate people on transmisogyny. saying that dan and swampy have "a long history" of it as well is just ridiculous considering that they have never ever even had anywhere near that intent with any of the media theyve created. i think yall should put more energy into real issues hurting our community rather than hyper-analyzing harmless media in search of any hints of subtle bigotry between the lines that arent even there. videos and takes like these are ultimately what end up hurting our community the most, because yall are so obsessed with making harmless people and behavior look malicious that you let real bigots run free and hurt queer people.
also, the perry ace thing being seen as poor rep just because dan and swampy didn't make hold any sexual attraction and referring to it as "avoiding the question" as if ace/aro people are a different little subsection of their own rather than actually part of the community is gross. automatically assuming the very worst of dan and swampy's intent when it's... literally just the thing that makes the most sense if you actually watch the show without being mad that he wasn't the "rep" YOU wanted. there are plenty of ace and queer people that are happy with the rep for reasons you personally dont understand - just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's overall "bad rep".
overall i'm very disappointed with the reactionary and illogical criticism of the show that only came out of this new era of online cancel culture that people are desperate to partake in so they can feel like they're helping our community when they really aren't and are instead just hurting us.
hopes and prayers that dan and swampy don't watch this video or engage with any other content that makes them feel like they have to walk on eggshells in order to Not upset a small handful of fans that feel personally attacked, despite a large chunk of the active dwampyverse fanbase being queer themselves and enjoying this media and feel a positive emotional connection to their work.
I just kinda viewed this episode as more of the crossdressing trope, which a lot of shows do whether for the sake of humor or trying to be offensive. I think this episode falls more into the humor category
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Yeah I agree, I’m not not trying to say we should defend ignorance or anything. I think what I’m trying to say is that context matters when it comes to topics
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Again like I said I'm not not saying I advocate for any of that. All I'm saying is that tropes in media can used for a majority of reasons and I think it's always important to at least understand before anyone makes any rash decisions
@@nevaehhamilton3493 it isnt effecting them like at all
@@mauricecherry1209 The content of the video clearly is aware of these tropes and openly discusses and builds off of that to make it's points. Also I'm not sure what you mean by 'humour category'? The whole point of the video is looking at the content of the jokes, they're aware the episode is supposed to be comedic, it's just that the comedy is using harmful stereotypes for the punchline.
You should realise that tropes extend beyond intent and are part of a bigger cultural picture, these outdated crossdressing tropes have always been entangled with misogyny and transphobia. It's inherent to the trope because of how it treats and approaches gender.
@@Spooky_Magooky I'm fully aware of that, I feel like you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say
I'll be honest, I'm a trans girl and honestly I don't think this episode is harmful, I can even tell that this isn't even really about trans women, its like saying that bugs bunny’s crossdress is transphobic, this has been in media for a very long time, if they were winking at the screen saying how bad a man wanting to be a woman was then you'd had a point, they don't want to be women for like identity, its because they want to get to a certain goal, if they were being demeaned for wanting to be women it'd be a different story, please don't speak for transwomen I'm tired of people speaking for others, this episode is unfunny for being unfunny but not for some trans misogynistic shtick
Actually watch the video.
22:25 or just this section
@@VitaliyMilonov tf you talking about
@@VitaliyMilonov no I'm serious. What are you actually talking about.
I kinda agree - I’m not a trans woman, but I am a femboy, so it’s a little jarring to hear this accusation that any depiction of a man looking like a woman is transphobic. I do think though that this episode definitely raises some red flags due to the “going into women’s spaces” bits and the “sudden masculine strength” jokes. I think the episode had some transphobic undertones and intentions. I mostly agree with Ella’s take on the episode, where most of it seemed innocent enough up until the song.
this
When I first watched this episode, I was in the shower (don't ask), so the song's lyrics flew over my head, even then, this episode felt very insensitive in a sense and I never liked it. Now that I actually know the song's lyrics, my point has only grown, and the lyrics are just, in a word, very mean-spirited. And I hate this entire episode save for that one meta joke about lack of care for continuity
Also, although I liked the Dakavandish plot, I always found the Bison thing quite unfunny, this revalation, skyrockets my opinion on it from "unfunny", to straight up appalingly abhorent. And if this is just a reach, then I still find it unfunny
I do hope Dan and Swampy see this, because I don't want them to fall into the same insensitivity pitfalls in the PnF revival, it'd also be great to have some trans representation on the writing crew to make sure of that.
Great video, you did a ton more research than you needed to and the editing is way high level, I hope this blows up, and I'll keep spreading the word as much as I can
@@nevaehhamilton3493Oh, absolutely. I love PnF, but I just do not feel good knowing that the cocreators have these sort of beliefs, ignorance or not.
P&F has always had these weird double standards to it. Sometimes it'll be about really good, heartfelt inclusivity, and other times it will just include wholesale stereotypes, seemingly just because the writers didn't want to research it. Candace will be allowed to genuinely love Ducky Momo and not be shamed for her enjoyment of it, and then Buford - a boy who it's been stated in-universe is lashing out because of repressed emotional issues - gets shunned for crying and wanting hugs when he's afraid his pet goldfish is dead. Stacy and her sister are very comfortably Japanese, and though their culture and heritage are brought up, it doesn't define their characters, and then Baljeet is a walking stereotype so painful it makes one feel guilty to enjoy the show. Sometimes its approach to science and history will be intentionally off the wall, blatantly, entertainingly wrong facts used to drive home the fact that the show is more interested in being good than in trying to educate its audience, and sometimes forays into other cultures will effectively be a rundown of Western cliches of that culture as though "other people funny cus they do funny thing and talk funny way" is a reasonable joke in the modern world. It's like it was written by someone who thought comedy peaked in the fifties and one who wanted to bring something new and interesting to the world, and their jokes clash in very odd ways. And while I haven't seen MML, I wouldn't be surprised if it went the same way.
I love PnF but I agree with this entire paragraph. I love the show but it had a consistent issue with this sort of stuff. I mean, the show even had a (terrible) boys vs girls episode
Are we just gonna forget the episode where they went to Japan and literally everyone looked almost the exact same? plus the songs lyrics were super offensive because it plays into that “Asian people speak broken English” stereotype.
@@glurpious73 I was born with thick skin.
At some point I think it might be kinda good to have stereotypes in a series, it shows how there are people who are like the stereotypes and people who don't, like in real life. But P&F makes it a bit... weird? Like instead of making stereotypical light jokes on the stereotypical characters it makes offensive jokes on the culture itself and it gets weird real fast.
You’re taking the show way too seriously. There’s nothing wrong with including stereotypical characters in a show, especially a comedy show, and all of the characters are P and F are still beloved and seen as good people in and out of universe, despite that. If it’s for the sake of telling a joke or making a good story, then they can put in stereotypes as much as they want, it’s not like the writers need to research anything just to make a comedic moment work. They obviously don’t want the show to be taken too seriously in the first place
Honestly, I think you're reading into the Bison thing a bit too much. I truly doubt that was the intent.
Well, its hard to call it an total coincidence when the main subject matter is men dressing up as women, especially since this is the only appearance of the character and the names are fairly similar
if that joke was in any other episode, sure, but, its very weird that it was on this ONE particular, transphobic episode. Two points make a line.
they're reading into the entire thing too much but alr
@@Prismate Depends what you mean by that.
Is it some great hidden statement about how the creators hate trans and crossdressing people and want to associate them with murderers? Obviously not and it'd be foolish to go that far.
But is it an intentional low effort joke standing from the similar subject matter? Absolutely. It's just not something you do entirely accidently.
So while looking for some hateful message is definetly reading too much into it, looking for a colleraton at all is not too much. Like, let's give the creators some credit, they do very much know pop culture, so the reference is obviously intentional.
@@marleonka. what? associate trans people with murderers? did I miss something? also I don’t know the creators at all so I can’t judge what they do and don’t know
It's jarring how recent this episode is- 2018? Around the time of Static Cling of Rocko's Modern Life, which was about a transwoman representing everything changing? Around 3 years prior to nonbinary icon Raine Whispers made their debut on Disney? (Owl House also has Masha and even The Collector goes by he/they) Considerably after the transphobic Futurama episode?
Nice video, very well done and formatted. I'm curious to see what you review next!
This is a very good video about something I remember feeling back in the day. Thank you for articulating these feelings in video form!
HANAAAAA thank you so much for watching ;_;!!! I love your videos sm
Rare sighting of Hanah outside of Gravity Falls content;
hana jumpscare
When I saw the title and plot of the episode my first thought was "ladyballers". that daily wire movie
literally this and i wouldn't at all be surprised if that's no accident given how forced the name sounds
@@ravani_This episode is way older than Ladyballers.
@@pastelk daily wires shit, even right leaning people hate it
I don’t think South Park was saying it was weird for Mr Garrison to be Ms Garrison, because everyone respected that during the season(s) they identified as that. It was because Mr Garrison didn’t understand that he was gay, that was the joke.
With Butters, I think it was more joking about that entire concept itself, not just Butters dressing as a girl, also Butters didn’t want to, it was all the boys who convinced him to. South Park isn’t perfect, but I don’t think Matt and Trey would do that without thinking about the trope and its implications
I don’t think Dan Povenmire was trying to be malicious with the episode, nor with his comment on Perry being Ace, it was just a mistake made (in terms of MML). It’s cool that we have a canon LGBT character now in Phineas and Ferb, even if it wasn’t shown in the show (because of Disney, we saw what happened with Gravity Falls and Owl House)
This is what I'm saying. I feel like it was taken personally when it was not meant to be a dig at anyone like that. At worst you can say it's meant to be something against drag queens? Or maybe in support of them considering drag (to my knowledge) is suppoesed to be funny? Or at least in a good chunk of drag shows it is.
i don't think it was made with the explicit intent to be offensive (unlike tootsie, which likely was given the time it was filmed), it just feels more inconsiderate and ignorant to the current state of society and how it handles that sort of thing
See, I understand where you're coming from and some of your points are valid, but to play devil's advocate here, the episode isn't about Tobias being trans, it's about a cis man trying to get the role by dressing up as a woman. I would accept your points if it was actually shown in the show that Tobias is trans, but he's not, he is a cisgender man. The show isn't making fun of trans women, it's making fun of a cis man who is pretending to be a woman for personal gain. Yes, that could encourage negative stereotypes about trans women, and it does feel a little bit suspicious that this is a common trope, but in the end, the character is not transgender, they are not making fun of somebody who is transgender, they are making fun of a cis man.
As someone whose non-binary and genderfluid myself, I don't really see the issue with the lyrics either, yes it's weird to imply that women don't shave, but the lyrics are all the poking fun at his expense, not an actual trans woman.
But idk, maybe i need to watch the episode myself.
To me, this is just a lackluster episode with very tired stereotypes.
(Sorry if any of that was difficult to read, I'm using speech-to-text)
you're not wrong, but that is more or less exactly the defense the showrunners hope for and lean on when these tired stock plots get pulled out. it's meant to support this idea that they aren't "actually transphobic", they just really have strong opinions about men dressing up as women and it's such a shame that if they allowed trans women into women's sports, they'd ooobviously be flooded with men pretending to be women for easy victories, so the best solution is just to not allow them at all. it's a way they try to have their cake and eat it too, being able to write this character as obviously meant to be emblematic of trans women while being able to wave away criticism with "but actually this character is just pretending, they aren't actually trans", AND squeeze in the lovely insinuation that trans women are all men in disguise.
hope this makes sense + doesn't come off rude or anything, i'm a little out of it with allergy season rn :(
Hard agree with this, I see the episode as less a product of transmisogyny and more a product of just old humor. It's something that'll become less common with time.
@@insertchannelnamehere1448 That could be the the case, but at the same time Dan and Swampy seem more ignorant than anything. When people spoke up about Baljeet, they didn't double down on the racist jokes and said nothing was wrong, they acknowledged they fucked up and course corrected.
I get that it's easy to make assumptions like that about older people who grew up in a more bigoted environment, but I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to conclusions.
Plus I won't lie, I feel like a lesson about how pretending to be trans to gain something is bad wouldn't be the worst thing. Teach people to be comfortable with their identity rather than changing your identity for personal benefit (i.e. a physically well person pretending to be ill or disabled for monetary gain and sympathy.
This comment is pretty much what I was thinking, I'm glad it wasn't just me too
He is the problem with that. "Trans women are just men faking an identity to gain something" is what transphobic people say (among other things).
I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say a lot of people missed the "" around the word "Safe" and also the change in the creators tone of voice indicating that they were criticizing how Ace is used as a catch all for characters that don't explicitly have a sexuality in order to gain brownie points with LGBTQ+ peoples while not setting off Corporate's PR instant anti-Gay beam. (Nuance exists even though it can be hard to distinguish)
Phineas and Ferb did a few "put the male characters in dresses" jokes too but they were just that: smaller jokes in a larger story... not the premise of the episode! In fact "apparently... do what we did..." is one of my favorite jokes in Phineas and ferb! And I'm saying this as a transgender person myself!
I don’t even think the funny part of the “apparently do what we did” joke was that the boys were wearing dresses. To me the humour came from Phineas and Ferb getting dressed up nicely in a nanosecond while Candace was still in a towel
That's how I feel about the "thank you and curse you" from doof in a dress
I totally agree, that joke was absolute gold
I've actually seen people headcanon Doof as a trans man who was forced to dress like a girl by his family.
@@Stargazer_Ley while definitely not canon that’s a fun headcanon
i cant pay attention to video with the homestuck music playing in the background. i was like hey is that idk cascade and elevator music? IT IS. I RECOGNIZED IT. WHAT. im too far gone for this world
You made some good points, but overall I don't agree with this video. Some of the jokes, like the shaving one, could be interpreted as transphobic. I don't think they were intended to be, but you decide whether that makes it better or not. None of them are funny, in my opinion. But I don't think the concept of the episode is transphobic because there are literally no trans people in it. I don't think Tobias/Tobina is supposed to be a dogwhistle for them either. This episode is about a man pretending to be a woman, not about a woman who was assigned male at birth and has a masculine body. People pretending to be something they're not is an *EXTREMELY* common storytelling trope in general and comedy trope specifically. Why should the subject of gender specifically be off the table for a plot like that? Is a film like "Party Cops", about people pretending to be cops, being bad at it and getting ridiculed for it, inherently cop-phobic?
Even the first song of the episode doesn't even poke fun at men dressing as women in general, let alone trans women, it just pokes fun at Tobias specifically for being ugly. And if you look at his face, it's definitely drawn in a more exagerrated/weird/ugly way compared to other characters, even when he's male-presenting. I'd argue that poking fun at the appearance of a specific character is mean and not funny, but it's not transphobic.
Overall, yeah I agree the episode is bad, tone deaf, and could possibly be misinterpreted by transphobes, and there should be more trans representation in cartoons. But I don't think this Episode is inherently transphobic. Honestly I have no idea what you were trying to do in some parts of the video (Billy Bison, Doofenschmirtz mistaking a woman's voice for a man's, Doof voice in Amber Heard trial). Seemed like grasping at straws to make your point, or just generally weird, pointless digressions. The editing in this video is really good though, and you did raise some good points. I hope you continue on UA-cam!
Congratulations on putting out your first video. It's a really important message, and sadly still relevant all these years later. Hope your UA-cam career goes well, Acesten!
I may be a cis man but my thoughts on transgender people have always been the same. Alrighty then I'll keep that in mind. Because to me trans people are people who deserve the care and respect anyone else deserves they should be treated as you'd treat any other person with needs and should have those wants and needs in there life fulfilled so they can be happy as who they are. As someone with a lot of friends who are trans or nonbinary I simply want to try and help them wherever I can if they need it. As someone who is planning on becoming a filmmaker I would love to hire people of those groups to help increase representation.
This is the first video of yours I've seen, and I just gotta say you did an amazing job! Keep up the great work 💖💖💖
Trans woman here. Thank you for not only covering the blantantly transphobic episode, but for also talking about the violence and hate going around. I've been transitioning for about 2 years now (nonbinary to transfem) and it seems that there's been a huge spike in transphobia recently. It's so idiotic that a few stereotypes about a group of people just trying to exist peacefully who simply just want to change their gender, cause such hate and outright violence for no reason whatsoever. It's scary out there, but keep in mind, love triumphs hate. Always and forever
for real- our gender is not your business my guy- not until you make it a big deal. We just want basic respect and to live life.
@@CaptCinna But it DID become everyone's business, though. Heck, we do it at the month of June, every year.
@@laobok You change your gender for a month out of the year?
@@laobok In all seriousness though, pride month is to celebrate being proud of your gender or sexuality, as opposed to feeling ashamed of your labels. (also history exists)
Big deal ! :D
this is REALLY well-edited and polished and i was shocked at the end when you said you had never made a video before.
I’m a trans man and I agree with a lot of this.. it’s so unsettling to have to just sit there while other people debate whether or not you deserve to live for literally doing nothing wrong.. and then when I try to say anything about it most people around me get defensive and act like trans people are a completely different species.. like please I just want to be able to be myself in public without being told I’m shoving it in people’s faces or that I don’t deserve respect.. I’m just existing. Anytime I bring up the growing rate of trans targeted hate crimes people defend the literal murderers just because the victim is trans.. and then tell me I’m being dramatic bc it’s not that many. It is a lot of people and mainly those in my age group, I dont even use the men’s bathrooms due to this fear and have had a couple uncomfortable situations due to it. Not to mention really they forget they aren’t only hurting us trans people, you can’t be an unconventional looking person whatsoever anymore without people thinking you’re trans and being bigoted. It also hurts due to it being done by my one childhood hero Dan and the show he made that shaped me and lead to me becoming a confident designer by profession
1. Just be normal?
2. You probably dress like a clown and act like a psychopath - which is probably the reason people look down on you
You got issues mate.
@@archives2876 yea I know man and one of those is clinical gender dysphoria 😭 but I only rlly talk about that in trans spaces not day to day, it’s just annoying for people to act like we have the same rights when everyday trans people are murdered and we know who is the murderer but they face no repercussions
@blizzybee222 I feel like when someone kills someone else, they go to jail.
@@archives2876 many hate crimes go unpunished including terrible murders of literal children. I recommend looking it up. Though some people consider Nex’s to be “debateable”. You’d think they’d get convicted but suddenly they think it’s a “belief” and not actual murder when you’re attacking trans people.. horrific but even in the case mentioned (Nex) they had their face slammed into concrete floor repeatedly, and experienced facial injury, slurred speech, slowed motor functions and questionable personality changes between the incident and their death literally a day later. It was officially ruled a su!cide though the autopsy did not record their visible injuries (even if unrelated to death have to be recorded) and multiple toxicologists stated that the drugs in their system (mental health medications) shouldn’t have killed them whatsoever.
Hey I really liked the way you formatted this episode, and love the lil Acesten avatar! I was a PNF fan as a tween, but never saw the Milo show bc I had already moved out and didn't have cable. I think that the episode reads very "there's no difference between a man in a dress and someone who's an amab woman" if we're being particularly picky, and also agree with Lilly that if we're being charitable, the episode is still very anti GNC woman (facial hair, broader shoulders, etc). Both of these things are bad obviously. I think that even if they didn't intend for the message to be transphobic, it's clearly a blind spot for the writers. It's crucial to check your blind spots when doing content geared to younger audiences because they don't understand nuance yet and will parrot what you say, especially if it's said in a silly voice.
Edit: THIS IS YOUR FIRST VIDEO ESSAY??? YOU DID SO WELL!
HOMESTUCK. I HEARD THAT MUSIC N THE BACKGROUND.
Also I was like "Huh good video" and went to see your other videos and was hit with the big OOF of this being your first... Well, here's looking forward to more.
I had no idea about any of this. As a trans person who grew up watching Phineas and Ferb I'm pretty heartbroken. Thank you for the hugely informative and well articulated video 🫶
nb person here, had no idea about any of this since i never really watched mml or knew much about it beyond that one llama song; thank you for taking the time to make this, it's really informative and i hope the trans community, **especially** transfem women, gets an apology
Hey, since this is your first experience with the show. Let me be the first to tell you that this isn't at all indicative of the series as a whole, and it is actually a really good show and deserves way more attention that it already gets. Please watch the first few episodes on your own to make an opinion of it outside of a video essay criticizing an episode of it!
Still sucks that they did this, I was going to rewatch the show later, because I dropped it a some point, but after seeing this I'm gonna pass.@@indecisive2insomniac610
What is there to apologize about? A guy crossdresses in the episode?
@@crunks2955 Yeah icl it's more of a drag thing? And it's not like MML/P&F are strangers to putting men in dresses in a comedic and very clearly not personally attacking way...I feel like it's being blown up from nothing because someone got upset when it wasn't even about them.
hello xx OR xy person, a man OR a woman dressing up as their OPPOSITE gender role doesn't make them transexual, crossdressing exists + this episode feels like its highlighting how men say they are women to pulverize women in sports or how "gender quotas" are forcing men to dress as woman to get the jobs. If "trans" people get offended it's their own fault for thinking everything is about them, kinda like that people that starts any conversation saying "nb person here"... want me to gift you a hoodie with that phrase on it? for real, I will... just let me know if you want it for male OR female, maybe unisex, that one fits men AND women.
My fiancé and I watched through MML for the first time earlier this year and this episode really stuck out to both of us as something we couldn't believe they made in 2018. You did a great job explaining why plots like this reinforce negative stereotypes. (This video also reinforced that I need to read Whipping Girl.)
it's true, i was the fiancé. i legitimately had no idea what the hell i was watching; the episode made me viscerally upset in a way i could not describe, and this video puts most of it into words (especially jenny geist saying it's like the creators didn't even view this as punching down). it's overall a shame because the trope of gender-bending/gender-swapping characters is one i was always drawn to as a kid, for reasons i didn't quite understand until i was in my mid-20s and realized i'm genderfluid. i've always wished shows like this would use more good faith in experimenting with the premise, but most of them seem to not know how. it's just "man in dress" jokes all the way down. it's infuriating.
From the references to Tootsie to Silence of the Lambs, how did the writers even think kids would understand the context behind any of these jokes? They definitely only made this episode to preach about the female Ghostbusters thing, child audience be damned 💀
Problem is, it’s harder to subtly show asexual characters in family friendly shows. While in adult shows, they should have no problem, since it’s for an adult audience. But discussions about sex in a family friendly show should always be a big no. So instead of just saying this character is ace, show subtle realistic signs that someone is ace. Maybe visually show they have merch of their sexuality whenever in a little keychain or flag, a lot of people do that in real life. Or when discussing family life, have a character mention they do things differently. Maybe use some ace lingo
Not many know. Other times the character may reference they have some trouble understanding parts of a relationship. It doesn’t have to go all out saying they’re ace. And just don’t fall into the stereotype like the naive pure one. Other than that, I say you a-ok. Though can people stop saying asexuality is safe. Maybe I could get in adult shows, since they get away with a lot. But in a kids show, it’s pretty hard to get away with sexualities (in general really) saying certain things especially with a company like Disney.
I think the problem with this approach is that it almost always goes over peoples heads, and the people who do pick up on it and tell other people are called crazy or woke, and that theyre reading into it too much. Asexuality is one of those things that people actually do need spelled out for them 💀
Sex is natural so why should discussing it be a problem?
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 cuz that is inappropriate. There is a stage in a kid's life where they should learn that, but cartoons aren't a place for sex ed. You could argue for just educational cartoons But even then, it's a discussion with one's parents.
shoutout to ella cesari for sharing this on her twitter! a great artist responsible for some great short story webcomics. glad she's still kicking and pitched in.
As a transfem, I'm just numb to "man in dress" episodes, I've learned to just ignore them cause there's nothing I can do about it. But I really am happy there's still people talking about this. This was an amazing and informative video and you're an awesome person, thank you for making a great essay on transphobia/misogyny in the media industry, we really need more of them
I think there are things we can do about it though, people have called out these episodes and tropes and while they do still happen, they've become a lot less common
@@lavender317 she's reading far too much into it
@@EnvelopingSuspensions HE is not at all reading to far into it. Like HE says, this episode is about making fun of a man in a dress. This is genuinely how a lot of people still see trans women. A piece of media can still be transphobic without having trans characters
maybe people needs to stop being offended by "man in dress" episodes since cross dressing has nothing to do with "trans" people.... or maybe stop getting offended about everything
@@saphi20 if you really think that bad representations of crossdressing doesn't affect trans people, you don't know anything about the matter at hand
Even as a cis-man the song lyrics and some dialogue was pretty cringe worthy like god damn... They just did not even try with this one.
I mean... every episode is pretty cringe worthy, so I don't get what's so special about this one
@@Dextrome the fact that it so blatantly perpetuates very dated ways of thinking that is both tone deaf and sexist.
Like look, even if it isn't something that can give vibes of transphobia I fucking hate lazy boomer ass sexist jokes "Guy Thing, Girl Thing"
Fairly Oddparents is full of that shit and it ruins a rewatch, even good shows like Mystery Incorporated can have some of that obnoxious humor slipped in.
Making jokes like "This is what men do, this is what women do! Oh, what's that? Something that crosses the lines? Then it's weird!" is just a very cringe and backwards way to try being funny.
Not everyone is the same, not everyone conforms to social norms, and in the cases of minorities or people who face discrimination it makes it harder for those people to feel welcome and valid simply existing as they are when it's always made into a mean spirited joke.
Please don't use the term "cis" to describe yourself. That term was coined by a literal pedophile. "Cisgender" is not a real word. Just say you're straight, dawg.
freddy fazbear
why would you slur yourself? just say man.
This was kind of a weird episode to me. Not really my least favorite, but still weird. And I'm sure the team that worked on this episode meant no harm or anything, but it sure felt dated in today's age, with trans people being more accepted since the 2010s. Also a bit of a shame that it had to be paired with "Cake 'Splosion", one of my absolute favorite episodes of MML (I'm a huge Milanda fan). A really cute, shippy episode that goes high, then brought all the way down with this rather dissonant, transmisogynist (at least in retrospect) ...thing.
As for Billy Bison, I thought he was kinda okay? Not really funny, but also kinda inoffensive IMO. I personally think connecting him to Jame Gumb from Silence of the Lambs is a bit of a stretch and assuming that the writers were intentionally harming trans people with this episode (while I don't want to devalue anyone's feelings towards this, I also think assuming the worst out of people for writing a bad episode isn't good either). To me, it makes more sense if Billy Bison was a reference to the actual, historical Buffalo Bill from the 19th century, rather than the Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs (to be honest, I never really made any connection to "Billy Bison" and "Buffalo Bill" until now either). This, because other historical "ancestor" characters shown or referenced appear to be from the 19th century Wild West: Jackie from "The Wilder West" introduced herself as the great-great-great-great-great-granddaughter of Calamity Jane (who actually worked with Buffalo Bill before); and Milo's ancestor, the "first Murphy's Law", appears to be a sheriff from 1875 (as revealed in "The Race"), as opposed to Edward J. Murphy from the 20th century. But, that's just me...
see I'd agree that it was a stretch if it wasnt for the fact that the episode was already a sort of homage to tootsie and was already making very specific jabs towards transfeminine people. it is very possible that it was unintentional! but we dont know what their intentions were when writing the idea for buffalo bill and considering what lady krillers is, dwampy's past jokes, and their tendency to reference older movies in their works, i would be remissed to not point out this connection.
in any case thanks for watching!
@ArendAlphaEagle I feel like you kinda missed the point of this video, lmao. But that's just me...
@@MarieMoments335 Oh, hi, Marie. Fancy seeing you here. I hope you’re well, though honestly, regarding this video’s subject matter, I can understand if you’re not.
I assume reason nobody stopped to question if it was okay is because this trope has been extremely common in a multitude of media.
Most of the writers likely just thought of it as some crossdressing joke rather than a shot at the Trans community. It's been done a hundred times in other shows/movies and they received no flack(although some are fairly older and red pilled so not much you can say there), but even then I really doubt the people who were making the episode were directly being spiteful.
I agree. It didn’t occur to me until watching this video that it actually is pretty offensive. I’m trans myself but having grown up in a transphobic environment (and being transphobic when I was younger) I can still be pretty tone deaf to this kind of thing.
Yeah this is just a normal joke. Literally no one cared until conservatives started hyper-focusing on trans people in 2015. Up until then "cis man secure in his masculinity dresses up like a woman" was just a funny thing to do. Rarely the core premise of a joke, but an amusing accent to one, like Brian's mother from Life of Brian, or every WKUK sketch. And notably, it wasn't funny when it was a trans woman who was dressing as a woman, because part of the comedy is making "dressing in women's clothes" appear to be a masculine thing.
Absolutely INCREDIBLE video, your empathy and language in this video is astonishing and resonated with me deeply, my concerns and feelings felt seen. Thanks for this amazing video, fam! /vpos
I'm asexual and I agree with another comment that your part about perry being ace and it was the "safe" option was kinda hurtful to imply it's less lgbt than other lgbt identities.
I can understand your viewpoint granted but I think a better criticism about Perry being ace is that he's an animal. If they made a human character ace that would be different but they went with an animal for representation, even if Perry is just as smart as other human characters.
They could have made Candace, Jeremy, Vanessa, Doof, etc ace but they made just perry ace
I’m sorry, but there are people who are ace due to trauma.
Not all, but a good portion are.
Some people just genuinely prefer to be alone
Something that's bothering me is that people are saying "oh they only said Perry was ace." When the question, presented in this video, was specifically asking about Perry. They specifically wanted to know if Perry was queer to which Dan replies "does asexual count" leading me to believe Perry was actually ace and he wasn't sure if ace was queer. I feel like Perry being ace was intentional and not simply "safe" but a way to give a character a "reason" to not be in a relationship. Which further goes to show that aces are already misunderstood and need rep, however small. Also, Perry is like one of the most popular characters in the show and is often unnoticed without his hat, which I mean....the accidental symbolism of ace invisibility is funny.
@@CrayolapupYou’re not wrong but I don’t get how your comment even remotely relates to the original comment
i'm asexual and you should go outside
i always thought this episode was odd and so out of place compared to the rest in fact i often skip this one , and most of season two and that one epiosde where the app makes loud noises that hurt, i wish there was a warning for anyways. but yess the whole playing on the joke of playing a different gender to get ahead is something not taken lightly especially since a lot of transphobic people will be like ohhh they cant be women they will get ahead because testosterone makes them perform better bs. like ughhh
While the transmisogny is very important to talk about in this episode, I think it’s also important to mention just the general misogyny of the premise as well. The female remake in the episode is seen as a diversity cash grab with no thought to the plot of the original, mirroring popular sentiment on diverse reboots. This framework when taken to its extreme can cast any diversity in any movie as non-genuine and ‘woke’. As well, we see Tobias struggling financially due to the recast. This implies white and cis male actors suffer and lose roles due to diverse casting, while in reality diverse casting just allows a larger variety of people to reach that wealth and fame.
Didn’t it say that he was struggling because of his own financial decisions?
@@anthrolitestudios True. We all know it was a bad idea for him to blow his money on krill-themed art.
@@mitchfletcher2386 yes
the venn diagram between misogyny and transmisogyny is a circle after all
What
bro... what? the bison billy thing was definitely a stretch. i agree with ella cesari
I’m kinda glad I never saw this episode, because it feels really uncomfortable I imagine.
MML is the awkward middle child between P+F and Hamster and Grettle (amazing show btw, it won Dan’s daughter an Emmy), I am hopeful that we’ll see great things in the new seasons, and I do hope Hamster can continue as well, I’ve really enjoyed it
I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to have a male character who dresses feminine, but it needs to clearly in reference to drag or femboys. Much like what Ella said, The way that tobias/tobina is depicted at first is pretty tame, but the song comes from negative transfem stereotypes. If it was just supposed to be a character in drag, then they never would have included jokes about shaving and sudden strength/aggression, going in women’s spaces, etc. Thank you for this video, it’s amazingly well done for a first video!
Why, though? It's not uncommon in real life for entirely cishet men to put on women's clothing for a laugh, particularly on stag dos and at halloween parties. Drag is a performance art and "femboy" is an identity, those aren't the same thing as is going on in this story, which is about a man who isn't a drag artist or a femboy attempting to trick people into thinking he's female for money.
7:39 women are from Venus but I’m from Mars (this is a pitch for a trans woman sci-fi movie)
seriously underrated
the structure of the video, the mixing, the extensive polish???
you deserve so much more attention
thank you so much!!! this means a lot especially since this is my first video essay haha
@@acestenharls its pretty good for a first video
The one episode I've never seen of the show. My local torrent site straight skipped it, and I never found it. (Love and miss the show otherwise, even with it's periodical stinkers.)
Not even the pirates wanted it........
Thank you for watching!
Based pirates tbh
@@enderger5308if only Futurama archives skipped 'Bend Her', too
so censorship good xD
One thing I'd like to see someday is a "man in the dress reveal" where even psot-reveal somebody still treats them like no reveal.
"Here is your hair back Tobina, take five to recover from being struck by whatever that was and we will resume with your audition after."
Imagine that.
now i wanna see that too, this would actually be sooorta trans-supportive(although still mocking trans women by the fake dress-up)
6:37 Nothing he said was wrong. Doctor Strange 2's script was literally being written on set as they were filming, studios don't give a fuck as long as it makes money.
that.... explains a lot
FINALLY somebody talks about this episode!! I was a fan of MML back in late 2020 and I remember being absolutely disgusted by this episode's transmisogyny. Great video, keep it up :)
lol, why so many dislikes?
Edit: Ok, now Im caught up but wtf? The "safe" option bit was even but in quotation marks, how did people not understand what was meant there? D:
One additional reference in this episode may be during the dress up scene with the big wig and leopard print top, I think that outfit is suppose to be a reference to the character Peg from Married with Children. So not a great reference to choose since this character is not a positive portray (which is expected from a satire comedy like Married with Children, but not Milo Murphy's Law)
Lady Krillers: [Exists]
Lady Ballers: I'll steal it! No one will ever know!
We’ll steal it… AND MAKE IT WORSE! So nobody notices!
I gotta say, as someone who stopped watching after season one, hearing about season two is like hearing about someone’s acid trip.
Awesome video! Thank you for shedding light on this really uncomfortable episode. This is kind of a tangent, but when you showed double-trouble it reminded me of something. It feels like the only representation of genderfluidity within media is characters that shapeshift. It's alot like that trope where the only representation of a minority in a show is represented with non-human characters. It's so frustrating as a genderfluid person, like I wish I could see more of the variety of the LGBTQIA+ community has to offer within my favorite shows. The animated media landscape is slowly improving with queer representation, but there's so much to work on as seen in your essay. Anyways, I look forward to anything from you in the future :D
If you're looking for genderfluid rep, I think there's a genderfluid character in Zoey's Extraordinary playlist! As long as you don't mind the musical format, I don't think there's any weird gender magic going on there haha
i wondered, when looking at the thumbnail and title, why i had absolutely no memory of this episode concidering i loved the show. the fact that it was likely pulled over here explains that a lot
I don’t actually think the Futurama episode is transphobic and would even wager to say it leans more positive. The character who does it is Bender and everyone knows Bender is horrible lmao and everyone’s reactions to it and the jokes surrounding it for the most part are at Bender’s expense and why what he’s doing is terrible, not about how being trans is terrible. He even learns and grows (as much as Bender can) from the experience)
it’s such a shame you don’t have immediate plans to make more videos, this was really well done
hello! there should be subtitle track set up now, timed to the best of my ability. thank you so much again for watching! this project has been in the works for a very long time and i am very happy about the response its received so far. it means a lot to me that others have felt similar to how i feel about this episode and i'm happy that it's opened up the discussion i've always wanted. :')
i don't have any immediate plans for more videos, but if anything happens with regard to this video like a response from dan and swampy, I'll probably talk about that. otherwise...maybe a behind the scenes of sorts? i dunno LOL.
thank you once again for watching! have a good evening :]
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Silly word ain't it?
Tbh, I won't be surprised if one of the writers who made this episode worked for the PPG (2016). Because I heard one episode was panned by many for ruining a interesting character.
Also, out of all the cartoons I've seen, that show literally destroyed the careers for some crew members.
I am also Agender but I don't label myself as transgender. I watched this episode a few years back and I remember having mixed feelings about it, my main expression was probably rolling my eyes. I don't think they meant harm but I'm glad you're raising awareness for this. Hopefully in the future videos like this don't have to be made anyways but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part.
That is NOT why ghostbusters reboot was hated. It was a crap movie that insulted an old classic, that is why. If the movie was good people would have liked it and the complaints about the genderswap would have been background noise. But it was horrible. I can't believe I've run into someone in the wild who actually pulls the woman card unironically to defend that reboot. And yeah, I'm saying that as a woman. If anything it made me embarrassed to be a woman, it was like it just existed to justify the stereotype that female comedians aren't funny.
Good video. I never saw this episode of Milo Murphy. I was a big fan of Phineas & Ferb as a kid but Ive only seen parts of Milo Murphy, mostly in season 1. As a non-binary person, Im not surprised by a mainstream show making stereotypical jokes like this. The UA-cam channel Lily Simpson has an entire video series talking about how trans and gender non-conforming people are depicted in popular media. Jokes like this are unfortunately very common. I don't necessarily think the shows creators were trying to be malicious, to me it seems like this is coming from a place of ignorance more than anything.
In regards to Perry the Platypus being ace, I think that was mostly just to shut down people interpreting Perry as being gay. Through the show, Perry and Dr Doofenshmirtz slowly go through an arc becoming close friends. Men having close friendships with other men is seen as effeminate and weird so it is very common for shows to make "bromance" jokes about those male friends being "too close". "Isn't it funny when men have human emotions and form close bonds with others." These types of jokes often involve playing up how these friends "act like a couple". Perry and Dr Doofenshmirtz get a lot of these kinds of jokes. Based on some of these jokes, some people online have interpreted Perry as being possibly gay for Dr Doof, which wasn't the intention of the creators. Death of the author, people can interpret things however they want. But does anyone think they would ever confirm an interspecies, same sex relationship like this in a Disney cartoon. They were just jokes. The reality of it is, many cishet men (even many allies) think its "kinda gay" to have a close friendship with other men. Traditional Masculinity is defined by stoicism and self reliance. "Feelings are for women". Jokes like this are so common because it relieves the inherent tension many cishet men feel if they become too emotionally vulnerable with a guy friend. Jokes like this are the duct tape that holds to together the fragile masculinity than many men have.
As an AMAB person, I can tell you how harmful it can be to a person's mental health to try and live up to these old fashioned ideas of masculinity. I can also tell you how freeing it can be to move past them.
thank you for watching!
100% agree on the "bromance" stuff!!! thank you for putting it into words. i have always found the bromance jokes in p&f to be uncomfortable in a sense and i could never quite formulate why it irked me so. buford and baljeet get them too!
A great first video. Also off topic but, I gotta say, love the Homestuck background music
18:25 Never knew that they said it there 😮 I couldn't find any footage/audio of them saying it before but thanks for providing proof!
I remember seeing that episode and laughing at a couple of bits,I dont think there was any ill intentions.Its a cartoon after all,you shouldn't take it too seriously
And this is a UA-cam video after all,you shouldn't take it too seriously
@@sandwichqueen true
@@sandwichqueen I really feel like nobody should be taking this video seriously when the primary "source" is an opinion piece with a clear bias in favor of trans victim labeling.
@@Double_DAW
The phrase "the primary 'source'" doesn't actually make sense in this context - you're watching a video essay explaining harmful tropes perpetrated, albeit likely unintentionally, by a tv show episode. If anything, the primary source would be the episode which is analyzed and deconstructed throughout the video.
Past that, the phrase "trans victim labeling" is as clownish as it is incomprehensible. I strongly suggest that you find something better to do with your time than watch videos which you know are going to annoy you.
Well, I'm in for the ride. If/when you do another video, be it a full essay like this or not, I'm here. ^^
what an amazing debut video! keep up the great work, i can't wait to see what you put up in the future. :D
Lady Krillers was such a bad episode that it made me give up on season 2 of MML altogether. It wasn't the only thing, but it was the final straw. It just felt so mean-spirited...
Anyway, thanks for making this video! It's very slickly made, can't believe it's your first video essay :)
I haven't watched mml, but I am a huge fan of pnf, and this was an unpleasant surprise to hear about. But as a Nonbinary person I do agree that I'd be happy with an acknowledgement of the situation and a promise to do better going forwards.
Very well made video, thank you.
You're pretty brave talking about this, especially because it's about a big creator with a positive online presence on a subject such as transphobia. Dan's got a history of stuff like this and I feel like he gets "wholesome"ified by the majority of his audience who look over it, which is hurtful to us in the trans community. He's a person and has his own skeletons to work on, obviously. I wonder if this type of stuff will show up in the upcoming P&F show...
Considering one of his kids now uses they/them pronouns, I’m gonna assume he’s not like this right now, so it probably won’t show up in new PnF seasons
Dan isn’t a perfect person like everyone, everyone has faults and I hope Dan learns from that mistake!
@@waluigitheplumber5355He actually continues to misgender Mel on social media.
@@pepperimps01 *really?*
edit: from what I'm able to find neither of his kids use they/them pronouns, am I missing something?
@@tristanqr according to Meli’s Tiktok, their pronouns are they/them. So yeah, he’s misgendering them.
Thank you for your research and bravery posting this. It is scary to come out and make a point, but if no one does it, no discourse happens. So thank you for speaking out
I would watch more video essays by you!!! I can’t believe you’ve never made videos like this before !
damn, for this being the first youtube video youve ever made like this, you did fantastic. had you not said that i woulda taken you for someone whos been doing this for a long time
This was such a well made video and fr explained everything so well tysm for this 🙏
I feel like they could've done an episode making fun of reboots and the death of creativity without a crossdressing plot
I agree, and it'd probably have more staying power.
Exactly this. I wish i found this comment before making a several paragraph long response to someone else in the comments here lol, it summed up my thoughts pretty well
@@hoshiboxofficial I mean classic cartoon tropes (such as crossdressing) are classic but not always needed
@@hoshiboxofficialtf
I have to admit, I had no idea a Phineas and Ferb spin-off even existed prior to stumbling on this essay! Disappointing first impression! I really enjoyed watching this though. I think you gathered your thoughts and presented them really well, and I look forward to what you will write in the future!
I think it's a little shocking so many people think the Buffalo Bill/Bison Billy connection is a stretch! I get the feeling that these commenters did not live through the 1990's as a transgender person. Back then, Buffalo Bill and Lt. Einhorn were the transgender representation that everyone was aware of, and these two were so commonly referenced as such in pop culture and day to day life. Jeff Marsh and Dan Povenmire were born in 1960 and 1963 respectively, so to think that a Buffalo Bill reference is coincidence in this episode is a stretch seems about as far fetched to me as thinking that it's a stretch that the episode was written with Tootsie and Ghostbusters (2016) in mind. That is to say, not a stretch at all.
I think it's very likely that the writers were thinking "oh, like Buffalo Bill!" And what I see from that scene is an ironic apology video, something else that doesn't feel like an accident. That part of the episode, to me, feels like the writing room saying, "sorry, we're not sorry, but we might get canceled, so here's a fake apology video."
Like you said, "I just want an apology."
I hope the comments from the masses never discourage you. You're a good writer with astute analysis. I'm looking forward to what you have to say next. I hope you'll write about something that makes you really happy too, but it's your channel with your direction.
And I really hope you accomplish your dream of finding your way into the animation industry.
super unrelated but the Homestuck music made me check my other tabs to make sure i only had one video playing lol especially elevatorstuck since i have a permanent elevatorstuck tab for some reason
man this hurts, i never watched MML because it was after my time of watching pretty much everything that was on the kids channels, but i watched phineas and ferb all the time, ive probably seen almost every episode. really hurts that they thought this was okay at all (especially as recently as 2018), and the way it sheds some light on some previous comments or things in the shows and all that.
you like to believe the people and things who brought you so much joy when you were younger are all good _because_ they brought that joy, but it sucks that thats often far from true. it really, really hurts to find out how much a lot of them would, for one reason or another, not like you just because of what you are. i didnt choose to be trans, but i am choosing to try to be happy. sucks that they cant catch up i guess
also i have to hope that the writer of that episode is less bad about that stuff now, as he seems to have gone on to write for the monster high cartoon, and thats a really progressive and accepting cartoon that literally has a nonbinary main character, though i cant speak for the specific episodes hes written for and how they handle these kind of things, since i dont remember what happens when they happen yknow, but ive yet to notice anything bad in the show when it comes to minorities and especially queer people.
great video, it made me sad but thats not your fault, thats the shows fault. im glad you brought it to attention and made this video about it that clearly showed how much care you had (and how much care the makers of that episode didnt have...)
@@SomethingAboutRightAngles hm? english?
@@princembat You know what he said.
@@archives2876 i genuinely dont
@@archives2876 i genuinely dont.
@@archives2876 hello
I do not remember this episode and as a trans person it is quit empty. The transphobia seems kind of accidental, or more rather just ignorant than trying to be hateful. And with that... it doesn't even say anything. Man in a dress? Yep. That happens. Is it good, bad? This show doesn't know. It doesn't know what its doing. It just got caught up in itself and no one stopped it for some reason.
I didnt even know this episode existed before finding this video.
It doesn't really matter if it's on accident or not. When I was a kid, I stole a toy from the store. I didn't know I was doing anything wrong, but I still committed a crime, and my parents made me return it and apologize. I'm glad they held me accountable because it helped me learn that I did something wrong, and to be better. I don't think the writers were trying to be misogynistic, but they were, and I hope at least some of the people who worked on that episode can see this video and learn to be better
The show does know what a “man in a dress” is and clearly says it’s bad as there is a whole song dedicated to calling Tobias ugly when he is dressed feminine though. Yes this was probably just out of ignorance and outdated humor, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful and it deserves criticism.