When do you think we're going to see a flood of electric trucks hitting the market? And if you liked this video, check out Are Stirling Engines the Future of Renewable Energy Storage?: ua-cam.com/video/Be3FckQoDws/v-deo.html
Electric power strip..... Has anyone considered putting an oscillating magnetic strip down the center of the lane on Interstate highways.? The field could be picked up by a coil of wire on the underside of the car. (Like the phone charging pad) this would eliminate the range problem, & cars would need way smaller battery packs.
Fuel cell semis & busses are being adopted by numerous companies, with many start ups (yes, Nikola but others like Hyzon) are being supported & adopted & developed globally. Towing & distance, whether in work or leisure, at lengths when towing, is a hard sell charge times aren't conducive, yet shorter & mid Bev's can work. Depends on the need(s). Trains, ships, planes, & flying cars & taxis drive hydrogen demand, with blue & green H2 the ones to look for (while grey H2, from fossil companies, are a concern).
@@remicaron3191 I am more hopeful than you ..please search Tony Seba and check out his work ..you will be blown away that how many disruption already happened ..and how fast the disruption virus is spreading ...just for the records ..In a lithium ion battery 2% is total lithium used and if you using a Iron phosphate battery then the cathode and anode material is so abundant and cheap that you can literally make infinite battery..
@@tommersch4296 what they mean by capacity is that semi trucks are restricted by a weight limit. truck and trailer weight equals 3 and load size equals 4 so overall capacity equals 3+4=7. The capacity can be raised by adding more axles, but that adds more weight and wear items while making the trailer more complex (added axles need to lift up for turns).
@@tommersch4296 diesel electric trains still use diesel engines to power them. The capacity of which ultimately comes from diesel combustion. Plus fully electric trains are used for passenger transport not freight. So the main problem still remains.
Why do freight trucks just throw the load in the back and tow it from the front? Is that the most efficient way of bearing the load given the rectangular volumes they carry, or is it also a logistical matter where it might be impractical to do it any other way since everyone already does it this way already, and it's just good enough in most scenarios anyways, etc
Here in the US. A diesel truck can drive 1,000 miles before you have to fuel it. Also in 11 hrs you can drive up 700 miles or more depending on traffic etc. If you put a heavy load on electric trucks the 300 to 500 mile range will be decreased. The 70 to 90 minutes charging time for electric trucks takes time from driving. You can fuel a diesel truck with 300 gallons in 15 minutes
Here in Aus we have trucks that typically range from 25 - 35 Meters can reach up 50+ meters long in some states, They pull anywhere from 80 - 200 tonnes and are expected to cover hundreds and sometimes thousands of Km's of unsealed roads in remote areas. Even places with sealed roads on major highways ain't it. No one's going to be able to fix an electric truck out on the nullarbour. It is 750K's of nothing at 35C in the day -2C at night and that's without factoring in the road temp. Electric vehicles have their place but its not for long haul trucking. Too many folk want to put all their egg's in one basket.
You're comparing level 1 electric truck to level 99 diesel truck, give electric some time to grow up and evolve, the first diesels were not great either
@@ferdtheterd3897 Except that this whole thing forgets how much carbon based power stations are going to be made to sustain all these trucks to get power.
Curious, unless I missed it, you did not touch on the carrying capacity of the Tesla Semi. Elon did the same thing at the unveiling a couple (several) years back. If the energy density in 1kg of fuel equates to 19kg of Tesla's newest battery cell structure (and it does) then you are going to need like 15-18 tons of battery just to get 500 miles with a load of pillows or uncompressed cotton. Not even sure you can put all that weight in batteries just on the tractor because of axle weight restrictions. So not only will a Tesla semi be limited to less than a third of a diesel's cargo load capacity, I think you'd also need a custom trailer to hold the rest of the batteries to keep all the axle weights legal. There is no way Tesla doesn't already know this. My guess is this thing will end up being a 24 foot cube van for inner-city deliveries only.
Are you sure you really want to do that, most of the roads would be blocked with stranded electric trucks. Some guys did a real world test of a electric pickup pulling a trailer in the hills, and guess what the range at highway speed going up hill was dismal. And they did it on a 70deg day, now if it was 15 below it would have been even worse.
That's a great idea, unless they can get diesel fuel cheaply due to location* Another big area for electric automobiles is warehouses, and they'll probably be autonomous,, both small and larger applications.
Just as most warehouse fork lifts and pallet "transporters" are electric, Short and Ultra-short high volume transport is a fit for EV -as long as the battery+drivetrain weight is similar to the weight of Diesel Drivetrain+fuel, there will be no "hit to transport capacity". Like city-cars, local transport is the obvious fit. For on-highway long distance transport, 80% ... (quick charge capacity - batteries LOVE working between 20% and 80% capacity - not too far outside those limits) ...range needs to be in the 5-6 hour Driving intervals (~360 mile (~580km) range) between rest stops (30 minute rest every 5 or 6 hours is fairly common - regulations may vary for different countries/regions).
@David Brookes , sound much like the condition of Transit Bus Fleets. However, with the owner being municipalities or public the incentive is much higher & there does not appear to be that much conversion to electic propulsion.
Matt I love your channel, and this is yet another great video but I am a truck guy and I have some quibbles with your analyses: EV and ICE trucks may both require the same amount of tires, however diesel trucks require many more fluids and filtration then EVs do, and when it comes to 18 wheelers. those are pretty significant costs. In addition to that all diesel engines that are built after 2010 consume DEF which is an additional cost, There are also brakes and the maintenance of the DPF filter to be considered. In addition to that I don't think the disruption will necessarily come in the the long haul at least not initially . Regional trucking in major metropolitan areas is where EV trucks will dominate. Many trucks spend there average days droning around in stop and go traffic at least for parts of their duty cycle. One must consider that every single second that a diesel truck is standing still in traffic it is idling and thus consuming energy vs an EV which is pretty much consuming nothing when it isn't moving, this may seem trivial but it really can and does add up. The simplest way to put it is, the major initial disruption will not come from trucks that run 100k annually, rather from applications where trucks that run all day but go relatively short distances during that time where the savings will really manifest. Sorry for the long rant it's a subject I'm passionate about. Thank you again Matt for what you do. Cheers!!!!
as owner of 15 diesel Semi operating in US-CAN , Diesel engine repair is too expensive to operate it. people try everything to from Emission controls bypass and buying 20 years old trucks which legally don't require emission control but they are largest polluters.
Excellent comment, your points are correct and material to the comparison. So thankyou, no apologies necessary. Those trucks in the cities in stop and go traffic are a big source of pollution in a small area, and it seems like they are everywhere as I walk around trying to breath.
Deliveries within and near cities are such obviously perfect use for electric trucks and vans that it amazes me more companies didn't build their own when none were on the market.
An important consideration in electric vehicles is the extreme weight. To fulfil such a high range, even with the new type of batteries being made with 2x range, the truck has a weight limit. To drive on a road, the truck and trailer must not exceed a certain weight. This means that the truck's hauling capacity will be reduced significantly to only a few tonnes- might as well buy an electric box-van to do the work. What might work well is having reduced battery range and having a trolleybus-like system which the trucks use on motorways, accompanied by a battery pack used when off the motorways. This means less weight.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@bygrace3455 perpetual motion will never work. Every system has losses, therefore you can't make perpetual motion. Using the earth's magnetic field as a power source? Well, the magnetic field is far too weak for that!
@@ryanvigus9634 I remember getting those figures from an Adam Something video I watched (before he was widely known to be an asshole) so these figures aren't from nowhere. I can no longer remember the specifics, but I clearly remember that the amount of cargo space lost would be more than a truck company is willing to lose. I believe fuel cells are lighter for the same weight, maybe they will be the thing the trucking world needs? Or, y'know, move all long distance transport onto electrified railways, and save trucks for last-mile...
@@ryanvigus9634 I'd like to see your maths, though. Batteries aren't exactly light- even Li-ions or Li-Fe-Po batteries still weigh a fair amount. For such ridiculously long ranges, in such a heavy vehicle, they're gonna be big.
Very interesting presentation ... I'd love to see your cost/mile figures converted to cost per Cargo-Ton Mile, I think the outcome will show electric as far less favorable than is currently being presented: the energy density on electric is lower, meaning more mass of batteries is needed, highway regulations stipulate the maximum gross weight of the truck with it's cargo, therefore the electric truck will not be able to haul so much cargo because of the mass of batteries it's hauling (which for long range I think is going to be pretty significant). This will increase ir's cost per cargo-ton mile (which I suspect is the figure the haulage company is probably interested in; not cost of driving the truck from A-B, but cost of getting {x} tons of cargo from A-B, and I again suspect haulage companies double-up on deliveries to try to keep that truck near it's maximum weight whenever possible, to maximise cost per cargo-ton mile)
Although it's important that you consult an experienced transportation provider before moving overweight freight, you can expect to be allowed 22,000 pounds per axle (44,000 total) for these loads in the majority of states.
I love how all the assumptions on this video are ‘based on what Elon said’ and totally ignoring the weight of all those batteries reducing the potential cargo weight…, believing the King of Snake Oil sales 😂
@@ironclad445 It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@mavrickdraft It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
I think electric lorries (trucks in the UK) would work well in the UK. They don't have huge distances to go and if charging takes about 90 mins then they can charge while on lunch or when at the depot/delivery point.
They certainly seem worth trying for fixed route large deliveries, like supermarket distribution centres, where the infrastructure will get a good return on investment.
for everything else rail should be the go to it's way more efficient you invest into the infrastructure once so you don't have to lug around a huge battery or a Diesel tank or even superfluous drivers EDIT: no more incest
Since every truck driver must make a stop of at least 30 minutes after 4 hours driving, I would think they would target reloading for shorter periods during those brakes. And maybe at hubs while being loaded/unloaded (for trucks in distribution networks for supermarkets etc)
Operating cost goes out the window when you realize you need 3 electric semis to carry the same load of 1 diesel semi (when accounting for weight of battery). You need to be multiplying the operating cost by roughly 3 for the math to make sense.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
As I've said before, imo they can be useful to supplement the industry but not phase out or replace diesel entirely. Some distribution centers can put charging stations in their facilities for running local deliveries, trailer jockeying/ yard dogs, etc, but not full otr through mountains and in serious terrain. There are too many variables, such as being stuck in snowstorms and not being able to charge. Then, the deceased drivers' families will sue everyone involved, including the janitor. The added weight of the batteries would automatically lessen the freight per truck, which would most like only add to the problem.
But...does the "cost" of electricity include the underlying cost of charging stations? The grid build out to support them? Also, what happens to the mountains of toxic batteries when they reach end of life?
As for the battery question, I've heard that upcoming Solid-State Batteries would solve that issue, or at least significantly reduce battery-related waste.
@@louisshin642 I have seen many proposed alternatives which appear to be in the works. My point is that right know, today, they are doubling down on lithium/cobalt.
We can't possibly charge all the electric trucks we would need without greatly expanding the electric grid. And there's no money or resources to do that on the scale we would need.
Its interesting to see a well thought out perspective from someone outside trucking. I've driven trucks in Europe for about 20 years, so I have a fair understanding of the industry. A couple of areas I feel you did not take in to account is the vast majority of trucks driving local routes don't just have one driver. Most of the work I've done involved handing the truck to the next driver. The truck isn't sitting still for the 90 mins it takes to achieve the 80% charge. So add the cost of 2 or 3 extra trucks to the fleet to maintain maximum work load, then the cost of maintenance, insurance, repairs etc. It all adds up and diminishes the advantage of battery powered electric trucks. The saying in trucking is "if its moving, its making you money. If its sitting still, its costing you money". You highlight in the video the average millage per year and life span of the truck. Most of the larger companies I've worked for replace the trucks at 750,000 - 1,000,000km (Its Europe so its metric) but I have driven trucks that have driven 1.5 - 2 million km. Normally at the end of its life with the company that bought it new the truck is sold in the used market. Have you ever tried to use a 10 year old battery, like in a laptop or a phone. The battery loses its ability to hold a charge with each charge. A diesel truck does not suffer this in anywhere near the same way. So add the devaluation of the resale value trucks to the equation and batteries are a larger cost in the long term compared to diesel. For me hydrogen wins hands down in trucking. Compared to diesel, its cheaper, more efficient, refuel time is the same, one stop at the pumps to tank up does a days or nights work and compared to batteries it has greater range. But most importantly weighs less. As trucks have total weight limited that includes the cargo (in Europe this is 44ton), hydrogen trucks will be able to carry more cargo. My personal belief is that cars will continue with batteries but heavy haulage will go down the hydrogen path. This will in turn lead to the hydrogen infrastructure being built. Once that's in place, car drivers regularly driving beyond the range of the battery and having to do a 90 min stop to fuel up will want a return to 5 mins stops on the forecourt. At the end we will have a mix on EV solutions.
I like your comment. Furthermore looking at it from a holistic point of view, one of the beast paths to decarbonise heating in the residential sector is to move to hydrogen. A hydrogen infrastructure is needed in many countries and this transition can be accelerated by having other sectors demanding that resource as well. I think EVs and hydrogen are both equally required, and not necessarily in opposition, but i definitively see the advantages of hydrogen to advance decarbonisation in other sectors. In regards to the blue vs green hydrogen situation, I thibk blue hydrogen can kick-start the industry moving towards scaling up the required hydrogen infrastructure, but i would be worry that the strategy would be to rely solely on this supply in the long term. There must be clear plans to speed up green hydrogen production and phase out blue hydrogen as soon as possible.
Very well said sir. Also can this truck drive thru some flooded area diesel truck still is the way to go. There are part of the world electric powered truck may not be viable let say road train this trucks are massive can electric truck replace them? Its all about range and the heavier the truck the more battery it need to move the truck and the load.
Well said, but as far as I know humans did not invent safe and cheap way to use hydrogen. I mean yeah, it's cheaper and lighter, but it's also way more prone to leakage and inflammation. Have I missed some cool new tech that lets people to distribute, dispense and use H as a fuel that has appeared in the last year or two? Because nothing that we use today is suitable. Oh, and in case you say "we will find the ways later" - yes, we will, but lets not repeat the same mistake we did with electro cars, lets start thinking about using hydrogen as a fuel AFTER we find a way to use it?
Very valid points. The main problem of hydrogen is the low efficiency. The so called green hydrogen is produced through electrolysis using electricity generated from renewable energy sources. The process has energy losses of about 20-30%. Then the hydrogen needs to be compressed to 350 bar or 700 bar at a cost of 3-6% loss, or cooled to be in liquid state at much higher costs. The compressed or liquid hydrogen is then transported and distributed, again, with losses of about 10%. Now the truck is filled with hydrogen, of which only about 50% percent can be converted into electricity by fuel cells. All of these means the electricity - hydrogen - electricity conversion efficiency is somewhere about 30%. Handling of electricity has much higher efficiency.
@Al Jaume @Robert 3nidad @Anton Morozov @Chang Luo I fully believe that what way large goods vehicles go in terms on EV power storage will shape what everyone does for anything outside local driving (local being a radius of half the battery range or "there and back"). You guys bring up some points I'd never considered like flooded areas or road trains but I wonder how artic and mountain driving effect the batteries performance. I think this is not something that will be decided by drivers, planners or transport managers. Its going to be the accountants as its all going to come down to the profit at the end of the life cycle of the truck. The other thing we should take in to account is if green hydrogen becomes readily available or solid state batteries deliver what is expected then the winner becomes obvious. I definitely see the benefit of a mixed solution if the second hand market is relatively unaffected by the batteries life span. I know Tesla have some high confidence in the life span of the battery but have you seen the cost to replace a tesla battery? Personally I'd have a hydrogen as I regularly travel across Europe in a car. My current 9-10 hour drive becomes about 14 hours with current battery tech. Chang Luo, I remember seeing this somewhere before and I think even with hydrogen being a low percentage for the efficiency of the whole life cycle it was still better than what we currently have. Also I think electric was around a 80 or 90%. I may be wrong on this as I cant find where I saw it.
a cost that you missed is fuel taxes. We already have government running around trying to figure out how to get their pound of flesh from current EV owners, the EV Trucks will also incur this cost and probably more.
@@TobyCostaRica That seems like a drop in the bucket compared to the amount I am charged on a gallon on gas. I will switch to EV but I could not rap my head around owning the Apple of cars. Not a hater but I think you should be able to repair your own vehicle or at least have options. I more than have the skills for this but Tesla says no. As more EVs hit the market this may change.
@@TobyCostaRica i wouldnt expect that to stay that way once the government realizes how much theyre missing. I think its the lack of standardization that has shielded owners from beign charged ast the point of charge to this point. It woudl be trivial to make even home chargers payment collection centers above and beyond the cost of the electricity. i'd still expect the extra registration fees though. Especially in CA.
@@willstikken5619 I’m sure in a few years, now they’re giving checks out to go electric. My last vehicle was Fuel cell and CA gave me $5000 and carpool for the lease. Toyota provided 15k for fuel since to go 250 miles cost about $80 in H2
Y'know, with how much energy is lost by brakes in big, heavy trucks, hybrids seem like a good place to start. Currently, most of the braking is done by 'Engine Braking', letting the engine resist the transmission with no fuel. Letting generators capture high-torque electricity to be re-used for acceleration (the hardest part for a big truck) just seems like a good idea.
The problem I see barreling directly at us is WHERE IS THE ADDITIONAL ELECTRICITY GOING TO COME FROM? Power production capacity is already overloaded in any place that has restricted or shut down Nat Gas, Oil, and Coal plants.., not to mention Homer's "Nu-cu-lar" plants... (IE: California? -- Texas' grid failure? -- Hurricanes?) More EVs = more demand. The supply is already strained!
The electric truck is a nice “pipe dream”right now, that may do well moving freight the furniture, but for now diesel is the magic to get things done. electric trucks will have to over come and out perform the diesel trucks we have now that get the job done. Until then they will be nothing more than a fantasy
I never understood why electric trucks (or cars for that instance) necessarily have to outperform their internal combustion counterparts. If they do 5 - 10% worse, then who cares? It's not like in the 90's people have said, "Oh no, we can't use those trucks, because they're not as efficient as they will be 30 years from now!" We are allowed to factor in the added bonus of heavily reduced carbon emissions, so why do they have to have a head start in efficiency? If usage starts as soon as possible and becomes significantly widespread, in 10 years from now they will be significantly more efficient and at some point surpass the combustion vehicles.
@@lonestarr1490 Ask someone that is running a business using commercial vehicles like say a trucking company that runs trucks coast to coast trying to run a profitable business. I’m sure they could explain why the next few trucks they buy have to do better than what they have now. It’s called making money, plain an simple
Back in the 50's they thought "Why retire and scrap a 10 year old coal locomotive?" Yet they did it because the cost for maintenance was so much more expensive than diesel trains. They will find electric trucks much less expensive, and will scrap the diesel ones very soon. One key will be a electric motor and 400 KW battery in the trailer, that can sit for 6 hours between trips at a distribution center charging itself.
Diesel prices almost doubled since you posted this 6 months ago. Electricity costs are going to zero with renewable growth. Diesel cannot compete no matter how you slice it.
Electric trucks are so good out in the American Southwest, you never see them. Thats cause they dont last out here. The heat will eat that battery up in no time.
@@Brandon_letsgo It costs even more in Norway, Denmark and Sweden and is roughly the same in Netherlands, Portugal and Italy so for Europe it's only a bit higher than the average.
@@Nolligan That's terrible since there's no commerce without transportation. Tax on energy is the most regressive kinda tax that existis. It's morally indefensible.
@@Brandon_letsgo I don’t think the Queen still collects taxes. I believe that’s the role of the Treasury and it makes sense that the tax collected goes towards maintaining and improving roads. Except it doesn’t as it goes into geneal revenue. So you’re still right - Brits and Aussies are ripped off.
I remember an article that I read many years ago where an electric car company was flirting with the idea of removable battery pack. You would pull up to a station where the used battery pack would be slid out and charged. A freshly charged battery pack would then be slid in and connected to the engine. The total time for the change was only a few minutes. I wonder if something like this could be done efficiently for trucks.
@@brendanmccann5695 cars? If they could make the batteries smaller and more powerful, that’d be great but they way it stands now America and or any counties infrastructure will not and cannot handle that constant bombardment to its infrastructure. We’re already complaining about the slightest pot holes in the road now- imagine if we had to immediately switch to those batteries and what it what do to shipping and receiving as well as the consumer.
I don't believe there ever will be a "flood" of EV trucks. I can see them being adopted in small numbers by large specialized carriers like WalMart but I cannot imagine a large volume of EVs until there is an enormous overhaul of the type of support that surrounds the trucking industry
Walmart, Amazon, etc. will drive this market. Any company that controls both docks will put in chargers for the trucks while loading and unloading. It will be likely to cut their shipping costs significantly.
You also need to factor in the payload loss because of the extra weight of the batteries. For long range trucking, we're probably looking at close to 1000 KWH weighing over 10,000 lbs. Even then, it will still have a shorter range than Diesel.
A 180 KW battery is about 2,000 pounds. They don't need more than 400 KW in the tractor, but ultimately they will probably have 200 - 250 KW in the tractor, with another 200 - 250 KW in the trailer with it's own motor on one of the trailer axles. The current 15 liter engines and a 13 speed transmission is about 2,800 pounds, while a 300 gallon fuel tank is 2,000 pounds.
if you want to make electric semis the future of transportation, you must first make electric railroads. if the rail road can be operated with out a battery it can transport the bulk of the produce to distribution centers in major municipalities. Transportation to suburbs or rural areas would be done with the battery powered semi. lower energy consumption in the battery powered semi would be less worrisome and cost effective to not preform. The persisting problem would be the rate of charge, but as time goes on that will easily be improved and would burden the consumer less in the end.
@@johnhorner5711 Perhaps, but not every little town or even modest sized city has a rail spur. Still going to need trucks to haul away cattle , produce, etc.
I am a retired truck driver from the UK, by far the biggest overhead for running a truck it’s a fuel costs if you take that down transport companies would jump at it, the big problem I can see is taxation, A big chunk of the cost of diesel‘s tax the government takes a very big wedge, so where is the government going to find the revenue obvious to me they’ll put it on battery charging defeating any financial advantage
@@drosophilamelanogaster3957 Don’t worry we’ll just have a ton of climate refugees and local governments won’t do anything. Until one country eventually conceded and gives their sovereignty to the UN effectively making them have control over the movement of people. This will then ripple effect and every country will give up sovereignty in order to solve the problem and we will have a global state to battle climate change and probably to colonize the solar system, too.
It seems that the easiest entry route for electric trucks is in the local to medium run area. Long range semi’s have problems that make them a more complicated proposition. For example, local/medium trucks don’t have have to contend with driver fatigue, pressure to reach a distant destinations on time, hurry up and wait charging, and bad weather that may occur along the way. To use a baseball analogy, it looks like Elon Musk has gone for the home run rather than a series of singles and doubles. Babe Ruth had a record strikeouts in addition to record for home runs.
I have an idea for electric semis. Put the batteries in the tractor but put another battery in the trailer. The trailer battery can give you more range, but the real benefit is when you drop your trailer and pick up another one. You wouldn’t have to wait to charge it because it would be hot when you pick it up. They can charge the trailer when they’re loading/unloading it at the dock or when it’s in the yard.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@bygrace3455 there ya go! Or we could build all of our roads in electro magnetic fields and we could drive through them! I’ll bet that we wouldn’t have to rely on power plants anymore. Just get enough people driving through electro magnetic fields and we solve the whole problem!
► Tesla fan-boys destroyed_ Part 1 - Low Battery Day ua-cam.com/video/-D6Y-14A7l8/v-deo.html Dec 29, 2020 13:51 ----------------------------- ► Tesla[]an boys destroyed: Part 4 - why internal combustion will dominate ua-cam.com/video/xEKJljhv1Do/v-deo.html Jan 1, 2021 15:33 ----------------------------- ► 12 things I've learned after driving an electric car 9000km ua-cam.com/video/1gqbTHk4egw/v-deo.html Feb 3, 2021 31:20 -----------------------------
Electric batteries only loose range & I’d say a 500miles range is probably more like 200-250miles if you’re towing a ton of weight. You can burn the motor out faster cuz there’s no cooling system that’s touching the cemetery of the motor at all, & w diesels they have so much torque in em they can be hauling a lot & also be getting 15-17mpg or at least the old ones are. For example my old 95 f250 w the 7.3 Powerstroke was hauling 5000lbs on a an all day trip. It got 16mpg, it might’ve gone slower, but it still used the same amount of fuel towing all that weight/ 10-11k lbs including the weight of the truck, trailer & vehicle. EVs are not the future it’s just we have politicians that are forcing it & create the same amount of pollution that the diesels do.
@John Brennan What I want to know is...WHO'S paying for a truckstop to install a couple of HUNDRED "mega chargers" and the infrastructure needed to support (electrically/grid-wise) the MASSIVE electrical draw on the grid that said truckstop will now create? What if I have to stop at a rest area because I run out of logbook hours? How do I charge my truck there? Most States don't even want truckers PARKING in rest areas, so how will we convince them to put in chargers too?
@@chrisward5626 Gasoline is. Diesel is not. The flammability of battery packs is a real concern. Remember when Galaxy notes were recalled because they could blow up in your pocket?
@@cdunn2669 the phones didn’t “blow up “ at all . Yes they burn but don’t explode . It’s not gasoline. You seem to ignor all the cars on the roads with their gasoline plus the tankers carrying the stuff .
@@chrisward5626 lol.... The guy that invented the pneumatic car got shut down bc they said "if theres a wreck, the air tank would act like a missile ".....he said a gas tank is not a teddy bear. He had windmills manually turning air compressors to fill air tanks for practically nothing.
glad you aren't in charge of anything...whatever minor peril that is doesn't compare to impaired drivers, lack of efficiency and labor costs...dude the trucks will move autonomously...running 24/7 with little fuel and no labor or liability it's the one thing we can all look forward to...lower prices on anything...you aren't in business are you? So you wouldn't get it.
I'm surprised you didn't mention an overhead catenary system for trucks. Lack of big batteries would not be an issue in such scenario. I think it's the best long term solution.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
The end of the video is exactly the reason why hyliion trucks, utilizing CNG and RNG (net carbon negative), are by far the best solution for the class 8 trucking market. TCO, range (1000 miles), as well as the fact that the infrastructure is already in place for natural gas makes it to be the best solution by far. Hyliion will be a major player in the space mark my words.
Good video! It seems that a big miss is no mention of Hyliion. What I love about their solution is that their powertrain charges while operating and is flexible but initially uses natural gas which is available already (although not widely enough). Their solution seems to be the best for early adopters.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
I think you'll see more electric trucks in Europe to start with. Stricter time limits on how long a driver and drive for, combined with generally shorter hauls make the market more conducive to at least this early generation of BEV trucks. I wouldn't count hydrogen out at all, as Matt mentioned the infrastructure isn't there for either yet. It's a matter of who can build out their respective system the quickest and be the most price competitive.
On the contrary, it seems to me that hydrogen is the correct option for cargo transport (trucks and trains) and public transport; while batteries for the particular segment. In addition, the infrastructure for hydrogen is similar to that used for CNG. EDIT: and don't forget that batteries are not recycled yet (cost / benefit)
I agree that shorter hauls make electric trucks much more viable. I would think that even in the US a large percentage of the routes for a truck are depot-to-depot or point-to-point deliveries that are much less than 500 miles per day in total. These are also probably the routes that cause the most pollution with lots of low-speed start and stop type driving. As to infrastructure, there is already a huge distribution network for electricity with "only" the last mile stuff missing; the charging stations. Hydrogen on the other hand has no distribution network and would, perhaps, be prohibitively expensive to establish in the relative short term. I am a big fan of hydrogen but I believe that it is probably a next-gen fuel source. whereas electricity is ubiquitous and easily distributed today.
@@afewdeer6627 I have *zero* experience with this. But is it really a last-mile problem for the heavy-duty charging requirements that trucks will require? I'm thinking that it might require more of build out than the typical automobile based charging station would require. That's just very much a guess, however.
@@fmvm I disagree on public transport, China already has proven that electric busses are more than possible, one city the size of small countries in population switched to fully electric busses in just a few years (forgot which city it was). My local (well provincial) public bus operator bought some hydrogen busses 2 years ago and shelved them after a few months due to too expensive. In Europe most trainlines are electrified, so no need for hydrogen there. As for trucks like the original commentator said, EV trucks would fit perfectly into the time limits imposed on the trucking industry (After 3-4 hours mandatory 20-30 minute stop to rest, no longer than +-10 hour driving untill taking a much longer rest, meaning around a max daily distance of 525 miles with stops during which some charging can be done). Hydrogen trucks might stil be used, but more likely as a niche sector. Hydrogen really could play a part in air and sea travel when it comes down to transportation, for other things it is much more limited. And no, the infrastructure for hydrogen isn't similar for CNG, or better it isn't usefull. Sure it is similar in that both are a gas, but that is mostly where it ends. Most of CNG infrastructure isn't really fit for hydrogen and there aren't many cng cars/trucks to start with, so there isn't much infrastructure anyway. As for recycling, EV companies are already looking into recycling as a cost saving measure since they don't need to constantly mine and refine their needed resources, something that is rather costly due to the low % of these resources in the overall mined material, however batteries already have a rich presence of these resources.
@@fmvm the UK freight industry is annoyed at government saying hydrogen could replace overhead line expansion for rail, they say having the extra equipment for the tanks and fuel cells would be a few extra carriages’ worth. They want overhead electrification precisely because it’s got the least space, weight, and has the highest power output rating.
Where I think this tech could really be a winner: Buses. School buses don't need massive range, or even highway speeds, but as it stands now run the same big diesel engines the big trucks run I could easily see the next generation of school buses, and perhaps even public transit buses going electric with the tech being developed for these trucks.
Always a funny moment when watching "some dude in America's video" about electric trucks ~ and then all of a sudden, there's images of a local shopping street in a Swedish city you've been to multiple times... just that moment of thinking "Wait, what? Why is he showing clips from Malmö... oooh, right... Scania trucks! Skåne!" 😁
It's crazy to know that in the US drivers are allowed to do 11h a day. In Germany for safety reasons we have a maximum driving time of 9h (exceptions for 10h are possible from time to time) And after 4.5 h you have to do a 45min break. Electric trucks are a perfect fit for German regulations. Makes you wonder why they don't release them here first. 😕
It's already happened. For example, MAN put the eTGM (200 km range for urban use) on the road in 2019. The video focusses a lot on Tesla and on the US perspective, but Volkswagen is building them already.
Here in the US, we must do a 30 minute break after 8 hours of driving, and as he mentioned we get a total of 11 hours to drive. We can be on duty or driving for a total of 14 hours in a day, then we’re required to take a 10 hour break.
Me too. I'd like to see a battery powered semi oull 20 or 30 ton up them mountains in winter lol How stupid do they think we are. And that peckerhead talking don't realize a diesel engine provided his last meal
@@357bullfrog9 Batteries can be heated and well insulated to do that job. Once they are under load, the will heat themselves with the discharge. I guess this challenge would only be one if you start at the bottom of the hill having parked the truck over night there in a cold winter night. But this wouldn't be good on a diesel either :-) I driven over Wolf Creek Pass on a Push bike in my youth. I know quite right what you are talking about ;-)
I was talking to a friend who designed what is essentially a black hole that condenses electricity from our environment. This would provide constant energy without the need for wind, sunshine, or any other source of backup energy. He and his partners built a facility and are now manufacturing enough units to power 200 semi trucks for the Dept of Defense. Once you own one of them, you will have free electricity forever, or as long as the unit remains in working condition. It was a fascinating conversation and wish I could have retained more detail information about it. This is what Tesla was doing but on another level.
Why do EV enthusiasts insist on breezing past the major impediments to going all green: The fact that minerals necessary for battery production require massive amounts of fossil fuels to mine and transport them and that surface mining of certain minerals destroy forested lands?
@@004Black Given the share price increases in rare earth minerals, I would suggest that some people are all-too-keenly aware of the realities of the sector...
I'm glad you talked about hydrogen. I don't think semi cares about infra because a large business like pepsico can install a hydrogen station in their facility, unlike homes.
Hydrogen ain't goin' anywhere. That's a petrochemical pipedream the gas and oil companies need to stay in business - they gotta sell something they extracted to make a buck. Hydrogen is dangerous and would need an entire coast-to-coast distribution network. Think Hindenburg. Kablooey goes hydrogen! Just like Nikola.
@@beaumob do you have any knowledge on gas tank safety? Petroleum gas and such are also stored quite safely in gas tanks, and hydrogen, quickly rising up into the air would actually be safer than that. We aren’t transporting hydrogen in big balloons that just explode at random. Also, hydrogen generators with over 80% efficiency can be built on location with just electricity and water. That will be a quite attractive solution in the futre
Logistics Analyst here (since 1997). Battery vehicles have a very limited scope of use. What people don’t realise is that some vehicles can tow up to 200tons making the Tesla & co options you’ve put out here as virtually useless. We also have a massive problem with infrastructure. The mega chargers will also require massive upgrades to distribution systems. I recently participated in a project that would require a $15billion upgrade in regional Australia to enable BEV trucks to operate. But, that didn’t include the generation implications that would include increasing fossil fuel power station output. So, while EVs are efficient once the power is inside the battery the delivery to the vehicle is extremely inefficient. H2 on the other hand has scaleability and can utilise existing networks. While H2 vehicles for domestic use may see limited adoption H2 makes sense for heavy duty applications including Aircraft and shipping. Remember for every kilo of additional weight (battery) will mean less capacity for the operator which equals less revenue. Not only that but if the vehicles can’t be charged at the maximum then this means more time off the road. This will mean any of those savings you’ve outlined in your video will evaporate extremely quickly. (I forgot to add the repayment on the distribution upgrade at current power prices was 64 years)
A topic that I wonder about is the implementation of the grid system we are going to require to support this transition to non-ICEs. Considering the amount of energy produced each day by the fuel based economy can any of the current grid systems cope as suppling 1MW chargers, as it would not take a great number of these before they quickly saturate the system. I think part of the solution will be to charge these vehicles during the night when grids are running at a minimum. Only problem with this is a lot of lorries travel during this time to avoid heavier traffic.
You should have your own channel on Discovery my friend, your videos have such high quality and the content is on point and well made. Can't get enough of your videos
Utilize the kinetic energy from the movement of the tires and or axle. You'd have more than enough energy and everyone would be feeding back into the power grid.
What about natural gas? Hyliion has the ERX which is also suppose to be delivered in 2022. Natural gas currently has the infrastructure to deal with demand, and the batteries can be recharged in 8 minutes with Hyliion’s battery design. I would add them to the running between hydrogen and full electric.
Another great video I appreciate the reference to the Engineering Explained towing video. BTW, at 12:35, in the speed up truck stop clip, there is a guy leaking in the bushes.
@@UndecidedMF lol, my eyes just happened to follow the movement in that portion of the frame, had to rewind to confirm. Keep up the great work on the videos!
@@UndecidedMF Sometimes he's as dumb as a bunch of rocks. In a video about electric trucks he thought that mountainous regions wouldn't be a good fit.... That's where they will shine the brightest. Zooming up steep hills at the speed limit instead of crawling, and recovering a good chunk of their range on the downhills, not burning through their brakes.
@@samuelprice538 You really come across as someone who didn't try to listen, didn't try to learn, and just heard something that sounds wrong to you and decided "he's as dumb as a bunch of rocks" without doing any further research. If you bothered to watch the towing video in question, you'd already know exactly why "Zooming up steep hills at the speed limit" isn't going to work out well for electric trucks towing a lot of cargo.
One, possibly significant, point that you didn't cover is placing charging or refueling stations in the truck's home depot. The cost of this for electric charging is essentially nominal, since all you have to do is install the charger and hook up the power. Most of these heavy truck depots will probably already have very high-capacity electric service on-site. To install an hydrogen refueling station, you need to install expensive hydrogen storage capacity on top of the expensive hydrogen refueling equipment itself. Once that's in, you have to have the hydrogen itself delivered in a timely fashion on expensive liquid hydrogen-capable trucks. I think there may be a place for hydrogen-powered heavy trucks, but I think the ultimate win will go to batter-electric.
I would like to see a version of this video but also done for cold weather climates, such as Canada. In Canada our max weight for legal trucks is 63,500kgs and we can drive for 13 hours. Cold weather massively affects battery efficiency. Would like to hear your thoughts.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
That’s called background radiation, it’s so low in power that it’s called background for a reason. And some truck drivers have issues hitting bridges and power lines at 13’6” high now, it would mean a lot more bridge hits to generate enough power for a watch to tick just one second.
Wholeheartedly agree -- what is base power for the charger systems if the solar don't shine & wind doesn't blow ? if the renewable storage capacities aren't adequate? anyone read about the Glasgow power issues bringing back coal plants on line since the wind didn't blow? - every time the EVs are promoted all conveniently omitted,
@@calebweldon8102 Thx for followup - but not ok if the activists momentum is to ELIMINATE fossil fuels. Where does your reply then sit? With all the modelling in the Covid area how is it that the climate change promoters have not supplied modelling on availability & costs for2030,2035,2050 energy /electricity supply when fossil fuels are ELIMINATED? MOST curious question is why haven't we asked for them?
beautiful, i've have suggested to add Solar on electric airplanes cars, trucks buses trains just about everything everywhere electricity is used & needed. The sun is stronger up in the sky when/where there are NO clouds.
description: "towing a lot of weight takes a major hit on efficiency" - no, efficiency of electric drivetrains is still about the same under load (usually the efficiency of electric motors is between 85-95% over a wide range of operating points; i.e. it barely changes with varying load). It's the other way around: ICE cars and semis can run closer to their most efficient operating point when under load (the efficiency of a combustion engine has far more variance, from
Diesel semi trucks use engine breaking instead of breaks, when going down a hill and some trucks even have a retarder installed... They're not burning any diesel when going down a hill, but unlike BEVs, they aren't getting anything back from it either.
@@Daddo22 Yes I understand the brake retarder/engine braking features because I used to drive heavy trucks for a living. You're not allowed to use those within city limits due to the noise of the revving engine and most of the braking occurs while city driving. Another big plus will be no more shifting.
@@glennjones1054 thanks, I didn't know that from my limited experience just playing EuroTruck Sim... Now I see that the regen braking is even bigger deal for semis than I realized
Would you break that much when traveling long distances? One of the problems with the electric cars is that they get better mileage in town because there's lots more breaking and less mileage on the road because you don't use the regenerative braking very much. And also what about the weight capacity. I thought this video would talk more about the mileage and weight factors.
The one thing to remember for Semi Electrics is that in a Diesel unit, Engine (ie. 'Jake') Braking is completely wasted engine cycles, whereas a proper implementation of ReGen braking done through the engine (reverse load generating) as well as the braking system will (should?) return a decent amount of energy back into the system, especially for those that drive up/down Mountain passes. No energy will be wasted as heat when bringing these monsters to a stop, unlike current trucks.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
One way to add range to a electric truck is add batteries and possibly a motor to the trailer battery. This would make perfect combination for a trucking company in Oregon that transfers trash to a landfill that is about 150 miles east of Portland Oregon. The trailers sit for 1-3 days before being filled, then driven east, unloaded, and driven back to Portland. A 400 KW battery on the trailer, and a 200 KW motor can recharge it on downhills, or add power to the combo when going up hills. A 40 amp 800 volt DC connection to the tractor can move 64 KW when there are two + 800 VDC, 2 negative conductors (with #6 wire and a 50 amp 5 wire plug and a #10 ground). If the truck is using 2 KW per mile and the trailer another 2 KW per mile, it will have a 200 mile range without significantly depleting the tractor truck battery during the run east and back to Portland, they could keep running the truck almost 24/ 6 days a week, like the existing diesel trucks run. For supermarkets, a 50 amp 480 volt receptacle near the loading docks could power a onboard charger that will recharge the trailer battery with one cord, and the truck battery with another cord, and charge at 40 KW per hour per 50 amp cord. They normally spend at least 1 hour unloading at each store, so the range would be extended by 40 miles during each hour of charging. At the distribution center, the truck could get a full charge in a short time, while a trailer can take 6-10 hours before it will be needed again. So perhaps a 200 KW battery on the truck and a 400 KW battery on each trailer would make the best use of the battery weight and cost. Yes there are at least 5 companies already making trailers (and even RV's) with a battery and electric motor in the trailer to be pulled by a diesel truck to extend the range and reduce fuel costs.
NO they can not. there i just saved you 13 minutes. in order for electric trucks to have the same range as diesel ones do now, the battery on the truck will have to take up the whole trailer making the truck completely useless. the tesla truck proved this
@@2SpyC_ a hydrogen-electric truck would be even worse as it's literally a rolling bomb. hydrogen is very flammable. It's the reason why the Hindenburg was a disaster and why all airships now use helium.
And power production, how is charging all these vehicles at night on a renewable grid suppose to work without efficient and economic energy storage. Without a carbon free base load like new nuclear or geothermal (which both have their limitations) this will be a tough ask.
@@anydaynow01 I have solution for that .. a Global grid..a high voltage DC intercontinental grid to transfer renewable energy from Asia to Europe to USA..so when Australia has day it will send power to the countries in night and vice versa ..already most countries has a grid now they need to connect over international borders and make money ..feasible ? day dream?
@@anydaynow01 : I just received a notice of electrical sources here in Ontario, Canada. . . 56% nuclear, 23% Hydro Electric. The only fossil fuel, Natural Gas, accounts for about 6.3%.
Fun fact. A new state of the art natural gas plant has opened in my hometown. The plant has 4 boilers with a total capacity of 346 megawatts. This means if just 2 Tesla semis fast charge at the same time anywhere in the footprint of that power plant then they would be loading a total of 1 percent of the grid. This is just 2 trucks in a town of more than 60000 homes.
… agree with most comments on cost. I manage a heavy vehicle fleet including procurement, add this to costs; 1/ Charge time needs costing in the equation, we hot-seat long distance semis, driver 1 gets out, driver 2 gets in. We’d need 2 electric trucks to do the same job as 1 diesel, so double all fixed overheads. 2/ What is the resale value?, we capture this as depreciation- a real cost that needs adding into km costs Great piece otherwise :)
Introducing the third option (hydrogen) after comparing the costs of diesel and BEV makes it difficult to compare all three. The price of hydrogen is significant.
You need about 3-4x the kwh to produce the equivalent in hydrogen power if you use green hydro. So, whatever the cost of energy is to charge a battery truck times 3x is sort of the lower end of that spectrum. At the prices cited, that would be more expensive than diesel. Of course you would not use grid electricity for either. So it may not matter as much in the end considering electricity may end up costing a fraction of that. At that point other cost dominate the operational cost.
You have to check e-hiways videos... they exist in Germany and Sweden...they are cheap to implement and efficient charging while driving...the electric trucks have pantographs in their roofs to full charge while running under electric lines cantenary with 800 volts similar to trains... that's the future! 500kw battery with pantographs... always fully charged to run on suburban roads
@@Gengh13 hiways are always ugly anyway... with all that new electric structures, they can improve road lightening and include green solar and wind energy conduit cross country all over European continent between major cities...
I was going to write a comment similar and I agree, I think overhead power supply on key highways and freeways is the way to go, not just for trucks, but for cars and busses as well. Due to the height difference in cars and trucks it may be better to put the power on the ground like a 3rd rail but then you will have issues of idiots (or children) electrocuting themselves so, I don't know.
One thing I always see that's missing from these evaluations is the folks that service the vehicles. You can find thousands of gasoline/diesel engine mechanics, especially for passenger cars; there's a huge pre-existing base of knowledge and experience. On the flip side, the current knowledge base for electric trucks is pretty much zero, and good luck finding a mechanic that's not the ones from the companies selling you the truck - which might have to fly one in from a different state to look at the truck. Nobody talks about it, but it's going to become a big issue when you need your vehicle serviced because it's stopped working and you need to get back on the road...
Breakdowns will not be a major issue for years. Despite the negative reputation electric cars can go several thousand miles without fail, mostly tires are the limiting factor. As far as service tesla already has mobile mechanics. It would not take all that long to setup a heavy equipment version. Training would be the limiting factor
@@francis_lang years? That's unrealistically optimistic. How many auto accidents are there every single day? As the percentage of electric vs gasoline vehicles goes up, the need to repair them goes up as well... and with california's mandate that no new gasoline vehicles are sold by 2030, that's suddenly going to become a massive issue.
You could say the same thing about coal steam locomotives in the late 40's. Many mechanics for the old design, few for the new design. But when maintenance costs, and the cost to distribute coal to refueling stations every 250 miles along each rail track, they finally decided that diesel electric was the way to go, and closed many maintenance shops, scrapped trains that had a 30 year service life left, when some where as new as 8 years old. By 1960, very few steam trains where still in freight service. I think the same thing will happen with electric trucks. Once they figure out they can carry many of the batteries in the trailer, have a smaller motor there controlled by the cab throttle and brakes, charged with regenerative braking, they will quickly switch to all electric to save on fuel costs, and overall maintenance. They will train new mechanics! In 10 years, I think it will be difficult to buy a new diesel powered truck.
@@carholic-sz3qv Efficiency is not increased by trains. Trains are rigid, inflexible and ultimately only profitable for heavy loads, but not for fast, flexible and direct transport. In addition, trains are extremely loud, louder than commercial vehicles with combustion engines, so that noise barriers and even noise protection tunnels have to be built again and again to protect the residents from the noise of the trains.
@@carholic-sz3qv Let's face it. Separate lanes have to be built for trams and trolly buses. Moreover, trams and trolly buses are extremely vulnerable to unscheduled diversions. Trams and trollies are also not flexible, but can only follow a specific route. Trams and trolly buses lack flexibility - and ultimately, trams in particular are very noisy - even compared to buses with combustion engines.
what I think could be a good idea if possible is to put extra battery packs in the containers and charge them at the docks, cause the trucks often leave trailers at warehouses and pick it up after it's unloaded or loaded so it would avoid trucks from waiting to recharge. The only thing is it would need way more security for these super expensive trailers.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
you failed to mention the weight of the battery, that would most definitely cut back the cargo load, which means a higher price pre ton delivered compared to a diesel truck.
"Maximum allowable weight for trucks on U.S. Interstate highways is 80,000lbs, including tractor weight, chassis and container weight,and cargo weight." I agree its a very important factor and they don't say or had any specifications about it or mention it.
@@kdungan100 At what cost of a new battery pack for the truck?? So they are recycled but then you have to buy another $50k (or way more) battery? C'mon man! Joe Biden lingo there.
@@kdungan100 Then why are only 5% of used EV's currently recycled ? its sad to say but it is still far...far cheaper to mine and refine these units than recycle...if that were not the case we'd not be land filling them at the rate like we currently are.. that may all change....but right now were just landfilling a problem for another generation to deal with..
Get educated, jezus. Answer to your first question: Renewable energy, probably solar. Next, I simply 'googled 'recycle tesla batteries' and this popped up along with a bunch of ADs trying to turn me into a recycler. The mere FACT that someone is running ads for recycling batteries tells me there is a 'market' for recycling these batteries and it's apparently very robust. Good O'' American ingenuity! medium.com/tradr/teslas-approach-to-recycling-is-the-way-of-the-future-for-sustainable-production-5af99b62aa0e Apparently Tesla built their batteries with recycling in mind. Smart. You unchangeable old folks can stop poo-pooing the future now. You're starting to look like a bunch of geezers demanding more whale-oil.
@@PlaidZoomer The point is thaT the heavier vehicle om the way down, recover more than IT takes to drive the empty one up. There is a mine operation that Uses electric trucks, which are discharged to the Grid after every shift because they net generate more Energy from the rocks than driving empty Up. : www.greencarreports.com/news/1124478_world-s-largest-ev-never-has-to-be-recharged
To me, at this point, the main value of e-trucks would be in replacing short distance trucking, such as food delivery, waste collection, road and construction work, where you do many but short ranged tours with lots of stop and go. That would make cities cleaner and provide experience with technology. The future will show if battery technology ever will provide the necessary energy density to enable such long range transport.
Although it's important that you consult an experienced transportation provider before moving overweight freight, you can expect to be allowed 22,000 pounds per axle (44,000 total) for these loads in the majority of states.
You forgot to factor in the fact that - at least in the EU - drivers are required by law to stop for at least 45 minutes after driving a maximum of 4.5h continuously. Time which can be used to charge.
Europe is also betting more on Hydrogen for heavy lifting like trains and trucks, and even Steel production, which is a bit more lucrative as it is significantly less dependent on resources from outside of Europe for production
Battery storage is the bottleneck right now lithium ion and cobalt batteries are peak technology right now and inefficient at storing and releasing energy in a timely manner, long recharge times and a finite amount of resources to make them, Musk needs to stop screwing around with cars and rockets and get on perfecting graphene batteries
@@russianprussian4683 I reckon we are 4-5 from the resolving the fundamental challenges to advanced material batteries (graphene, solid state, nuclear diamond) and mass production of batteries with energy densities 5X lithium within a decade.
For long-haul trucks, if they can get the charging time down under 2 hours, and the comfortable range over 300 miles, it's totally viable, assuming the mass of the vehicle doesn't eat too far into the payload capacity and charging stations aren't hard to find. You have to take breaks anyway, so driving half your day and then pulling off and grabbing dinner while your truck charges is completely acceptable. Another big part of unavoidable downtime is loading/unloading, so I'd be interested to see what solutions could be had for charging while you wait for your truck to get loaded.
Well that will sacrifice volume of the trailer, and the more weight you put in, the less weight you can carry. You notice a lot of trucks have aluminum wheels? It's not just for looks. Aluminum wheel is up to 30 lbs lighter. 30×18=540lbs. That's 540lbs more payload capacity as you are limited to a maximum gross weight, and axles have a weight limit for each axle so weight distribution is important as well. You could be within your maximum gross weight, and still overweight on some of your axles and subject to $1000s fines
@@BigMateo24 why you getting offended? Shit ain’t personal. Not all trucking is the same. Not every load or every trailer is weight capped. Loads of LTL, volume capped, etc. Keep an open mind. Or keep being close minded and stay out of business decision making 😉
Hello, I tough that one of the biggest issues with electric towing vehicles is that your battery is stealing payload capacity and you didn't mention it at all what gives in the total cost of operations you are taking in account that you will need more trucks to deliver the same weight?
Matt, you did not included Hyliion company, which addresses (and solves) all the problems electric, hydrogen or diesel 8 class trucks deals with. Do a DD and you'll find whole new theme to dealing with green heavy transport solutions.
Matt you are missing a big element in your cost comparison which is life expectancy of battery and cost to replace it. Max is 10 years and what to do with it after 10 years? Replacing will be half the cost of new truck and where to dispose it? The whole idea about EV / Etrucks is not very green as we think. Also there will be an issue to load the grid at certain charging peaks.
The key is to make law about "Standardized Battery Unit" for each 100 kilo-watt-hr, built it as a single Battery Unit for all electric trucks in US. Say you have a Truck with 6 units (100 kwhr x 6) , when you reach to a charge station with 5 empty units and 1 unit still full of charge. Just swap 5 empty batteries with 5 fully charged battery. This way you can complete battery swap in less than 5 mins.
I want to throw a wrinkle into this somewhat. Back in the 80s diesel engines got double or even 3 times as much mileage on a gallon of fuel and the same could be said of gas engines before Catalytic Converters, gas engines in the 50s and 60s would get around 40 to 50 miles per gallon. At one point I had an 84 GMC Suburban which would get 32 miles per gallon highway and 26 city. Theirs a theory on weight, but the Suburban being made of heavy grade steel body and frame versus the new lightweight steel frame and plastic body. They also said the weight comes from the power windows and locks and other things where they hook up wires. Suburban had the power windows, locks, steering all that stuff. The suburban had one other thing that most other vehicles did not have at the time. On the back was a tailgate like on a pickup, but with a slight difference, it had a power window that would go completely inside the tailgate. This made the tailgate heavy (about 50 lbs) and held up by two thick wire cables. This could have been done years ago, If we went back to this sort of energy efficiency it blows the batteries out of the water hands down. You would get double what the battery gets and save on emissions actually, using less fuel to get to the same distance. Do you ever factor in the emission cost to make these batteries? The production puts out more emissions than the gas and diesel cars produce and if we can up the mileage per gallon on a gas and diesel vehicle like we used to have it would lower emission levels. You want to know why its never been done? It comes down to the bottom line. If you have to fill that tank more often then you make them wealthier. A lot of things that worked well they had to find a way to lower the efficiency or ban it all together. If it doesn't put money into their pocket then its no good to them. There is still another major problem with electric aside from the fact that it just does not have the power for heavy lifting. No one is thinking of the big stuff, you are showcasing a standard tractor trailer that really isn't pulling that much weight. Throw 12,000 lbs or more on a battery truck and see how far it gets. 12,000 lbs is the low end. Other major problem with electric, the plugs aren't all the same there are two many different companies that you have to have an account with and each one has a different rate, there's no regulation on it. What happens when we have another Texas winter? Do you know that in certain temperatures batteries have a hard time producing energy? That is why in winter sometimes its hard to get your car started, but at least the battery in a gas car is only used as a capacitor, once the car is started you don't have to worry about the battery. Parts are more expensive and the resale value is always going to be horrible. Not to mention car collisions in these things would leak some really nasty hazardous material if those cells crack. No matter what battery you are using it has acid or a chemical just as dangerous inside of it. Self driving cars aren't any safer, before you go off on that. Too many collisions and lost signals in areas that has caused collisions or property damage. No one thinks how this impacts people is rural areas, or the fact that people just can't afford them in general. After a while batteries can no longer hold a charge. How much would it be to replace the battery pack? could you get a replacement battery pack or would you have to buy a whole new vehicle? What happens if your battery dies? Not like you can jump it and off you go. Another point is if you run out of power on a long trip, not like you can go to the nearest gas station and fill up a can with electricity and take it back to fill up your car. It actually happens a lot. Logistics that people just don't think about. Not to mention the long charging times. The main point is that at some point our companies and governments have made it so you have to consume more gas and diesel to fill their pockets. If we fixed that problem it would fix other issues. Not to mention at some point because this isn't netting these same people the profits they are going to push for some legislation that decreases the efficiency of these vehicles and tax the power companies more to drive up the price of electricity all around. That is what happened when diesel started to take off. It was half the price or lower than gas, but then legislation got passed and jacked up diesel prices. Not everything has been thought through, to be honest, but if you have answers for these things feel free to reply. Positive feed back only, don't need anyone cussing me out because I have concerns and questions that no one has answered or really brought up, it goes back further than the electric car debate. In closing there are a few other questions to be asked and talked about, but lets start with what we have now.
trucks can only carry 80000 pounds without a permit that’s the truck, trailer and load they cannot afford a 10000 pound battery pack ( i don’t know the exact figures but consider that my uneducated guess on the weight of battery’s 😂) but a tesla car weighs around 7-8 thousand pounds while a f-150 weighs about 5000 crazy right? that’s because battery’s are heavy asf these trucks want to cut the weight of there trucks already as much as possible not to mention the range issue these trucks have and the to my knowledge unknown effect towing heavy loads has on battery life
11:40 Umicore and Anglo American are working on a organic hydrogen carrier liquid. This would mitigate the need to invest heavily into a new hydrogen infrastructure, because we could use the existing petrol station infrastructures. And you don't have the usual hydrogen storage problems. (I'm sorry if I made typos. English isn't my native language)
after reading a few vague google results it sounds like they're bonding hydrogen to an "organic liquid" so some other organic molecule ( one containing H, C, N, or O) then de-hydrogenating it with a process similar to the one shown at: 10:54 and using said hydrogen to power a hydrogen fuel cell to produce electricity. I wonder what the 'organic liquid' is, and what it's going to have as a reaction byproduct. Hydrocarbon and CO2? Hydrogen Peroxide and H2O?
@@cortburris9526 The organic carrier won't really participate in any reaction because it only carries the H+ to the catalytic dehydrogenation. When dehydrogenated the carriers is conjugated (it has unsaturated bonds). This gives "space" for H+ to bind with the carrier once they hydrogenate it again. So in theorie if you catch the carrier after dehydrogenation at fuel station for example, the industry can regenerate it with H+ and bring it back to the fuel station. (I'm sorry if some terms are weirdly translated 😅, I don't know all the terms in english) Post edit: shortened the text 😅
That would solve the hydrogen storage problem, but it would make an already expensive fuel even more expensive, and it would add a lot of weight. So, it creates more problems than it solves, rather like hydrogen.
@@chrismuir8403 well it wouldn't necessarily make it more expensive, but that depends strongly on the used technology and the economic policy (I don't know if that's the correct english term 😅) of the country where it would be used. Yes yes. The weight of the fuel would be higher, but you can use existing pipelines instead of specialised cooled high pressure vessels. Once at the fuel station it can be converted to the classic Hydrogen fuel. It's true that hydrogen still has drawbacks. But every advance like this makes it more and more viable as a sustainable alternative fuel for heavyweight transport and other uses. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think leaving hydrogen, or other alternative fuels/energies, behind would be a good thing to do. Or maybe I'm too optimistic ? 😅 (I'm sorry my texts are so long 😱)
L - You don't need to apologize for bad spelling, grammar or being long winded. We English speakers are used to people from many countries trying to speak, and write, so we are used to it, it's no big deal! Yes, there will be rude people that will point out your mistakes, but you don't have to read their remarks, and if we think you write too many words, we don't have to read them either.
Regarding the daily potential of a long haul electric vehicle remember that the rules (daily hours limit, etc.) only apply to those who choose to be subject to them. Independant owner/operators will no doubt want more range if they're being paid by the load and even corporate drivers who get paid by the mile will flout the rules if the company doesn't enforce it on them. There were several times as a school bus driver my total hours driving exceeded 11 between daily route, midday field trips, and after hours sports trips. These kind of electric vehicles will, therefore, be normal among local delivery and short distance routes long before they become common for long haul trucking.
Considering the charge times you meantioned it seems like they are easily losing 1/3 of their driving time (though some of these breaks can be used for stuff like eating). Even if this drops by half that is still not going to be viewed favourably
@@Ja_Mes batteries add weight so either you need to reduce ratio of cargo to engine and fuel or stop to charge during the day which does count towards that 12 hour limit. Thats one of the major differences between combustion and electric vehicles, gas weight is relatively insignificant but requires an engine capable of turning it into useful acceleration so their isnt much downside to whatever range you pick whereas electric can use a simpler engine because of the versatility of electricity but gains weight fast when you add range
Matt, despite the fact that truckers can drive up to 11 hours per day, they will rarely (if ever) do this in one go. They will have stops in between to take a break, eat, or go to the bathroom. These breaks are perfect opportunities to recharge your truck. So in reality, a 500 mile battery should be more than enough for 95% of use cases.
How long do they usually stop, though? If it’s an hour per break and they do that multiple times per shift, then yeah 500 miles should be enough. If it’s ten minutes per break, that doesn’t sound like enough time to make up much charge. (Not trying to be a downer, just wondering what it’ll take for electric to dominate.)
@@RyanWilliams222 Trucker are required to take one 30 continuous minute minimum break for every 8 hours “on the clock”. This is in addition to the 11 hour daily maximum. If you have a megawatt scale charger and a 500+ mile range truck ( like Semi), a 30 minute charge on the required break would add about 50% range back so BEV truck would then have no trouble keeping up with a diesel semi even if at maximum load.
I was going to say the same thing. And I don't think they would mind to stick around 1 hour during the break if they can get filled up to 100% as well. In Europe the rules are much stricter. 56 hours a week max, with 2 days of max 10 hours. Every 4.5 hours a 45 minute break. So there the charging should be a non issue as well. And in countries such as the Netherlands 80% of truck drivers do day trips, long haulers is just 20%. So they won't even make the 500 miles a day, since the max speed in most EU countries is just 80 km/h. 10h at 80km/h is 800km ~ 500 miles.
@@williammeek4078 The average US Interstate truck stop will have between 50 and 100 trucks in the lot at any one time. You will need numerous 'mega' chargers in place to support any sort of 30-minute battery top-off scheme. Not impossible, but not something that will happen anytime soon.
They might be able to do local routes and not over the road any time soon. Probably more than a decade away. OTR need to be be reach 1000 miles a day for team operations and 650 mile a day for solo operation. As 27 year veteran truck driver I drove 145,000 miles last year and I have nearly 3 million miles driven in my career. So electric trucks would need a massive step up in all OTR cases.
Hi. I'm curious. Would it be possible as a solo operator to schedule a 45min break somewhere in the 11hrs? How about the team operators, would that be detrimental?
@@mrblurleighton Breaks are MANDATORY by law for truck drivers. In my country every 4,5 hours a 45 min break. And maximum twice a week 10 hours a day. (9 hours other days)
@@mrblurleighton Yes we are Required to take a 30 min break for 8 hours of on duty time. How ever the issue has to do with the distances driven plus time for us to sleep. I can average 520 miles or so in that 8 hours. Depending on where I need to stop charging stations are going to be an issue. As I may have to stop my 11 hour clock at 9 hours instead of 10 to 11 hours because there is no charging where I am going. Example being delivery to farms or off road sites. Then there is running the heater/ac over night when I sleep. Raymond is correct that the truck would have to have some where around 1000 to 1300 miles for safety. Changing weather conditions and so forth in the areas of the US that have heavy snow and or wind. Those conditions will have a big impact on power use in the trucks over all performance. Not to mention again weight of the batteries and how heavy duty the power train is going to be as to how much weight we can haul. You have Over sized loads that in some cases run over 40 US Tons and some times up to 60 to 65 US tons.
The average US Interstate truck stop will have between 50 and 100 trucks in the lot at any one time. You will need numerous 'mega' chargers in place to support any sort of 30-minute battery top-off scheme. Not impossible, but not something that will happen anytime soon.
@@orangecookie3132 So you are suggesting it would be better to build 10,000s of miles of "near vacuum" tubes with all the inherent problems of achieving that, to building 10,000 miles of traditional rail lines which has none of the problems associated with "near vacuum" tubes. Economically, rail would win hands down compared to any type of Hyperloop plus it could be electrified with no need to carry the batteries with the units.
@@orangecookie3132 Never say never, the thing about the US and rail is that the potential it's there. It's simply a matter of how bad things need to get before the nation jolts awake and how long completion will take.
All comes down to how much freight you can haul per load - which comes back to battery density / mass - and thats a threshold we cant seem to change - changes to tesla batteries so far are not density changes but building the batteries closer to each other - ie packaging . Even with greatly improved packaging they would mean a truck would haul less than half the conventional freight simply because the batteries are too heavy and steal the loading capacity - ua-cam.com/video/w__a8EcM2jI/v-deo.html
What if instead of a battery, the trucks got electricity from an overhead wire? And since that would limit them to just one or two lanes in each direction, you could separate those lanes from the rest of traffic which would allow them to travel faster and more safely. And since they're in dedicated lanes, you could have them pulling dozens of containers instead of just one or two, greatly increasing carrying capacity. However, all those rubber wheels on pavement will cause an awful lot of drag, so you can probably reduce that friction by making the wheels out of steel and putting them on some kind of steel track. That would also have a lot less wear and tear so maintenance would be cheaper. Man, I can't believe nobody has ever thought of this! I better go slap a patent on it!
@@ryancox4498 I was about to post a cocky reply along the lines of "or, just improve freight rail networks lol" after reading the first sentence. Glad I don't have to. 😂
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
When do you think we're going to see a flood of electric trucks hitting the market? And if you liked this video, check out Are Stirling Engines the Future of Renewable Energy Storage?: ua-cam.com/video/Be3FckQoDws/v-deo.html
Electric power strip..... Has anyone considered putting an oscillating magnetic strip down the center of the lane on Interstate highways.? The field could be picked up by a coil of wire on the underside of the car. (Like the phone charging pad) this would eliminate the range problem, & cars would need way smaller battery packs.
You said it yourself. We don’t have the battery power or the hydrogen facility. I can’t see any change for decades if not our end before it comes.
Fuel cell semis & busses are being adopted by numerous companies, with many start ups (yes, Nikola but others like Hyzon) are being supported & adopted & developed globally. Towing & distance, whether in work or leisure, at lengths when towing, is a hard sell charge times aren't conducive, yet shorter & mid Bev's can work. Depends on the need(s). Trains, ships, planes, & flying cars & taxis drive hydrogen demand, with blue & green H2 the ones to look for (while grey H2, from fossil companies, are a concern).
And then I get to the part you can talk about it. Also see Volvo, Toyota, & GM (besides China & Australian start ups).
@@remicaron3191 I am more hopeful than you ..please search Tony Seba and check out his work ..you will be blown away that how many disruption already happened ..and how fast the disruption virus is spreading ...just for the records ..In a lithium ion battery 2% is total lithium used and if you using a Iron phosphate battery then the cathode and anode material is so abundant and cheap that you can literally make infinite battery..
You miss one thing. Load capacity. How much truck weighs and how much load can it carry.
diesel electric trains
@@tommersch4296 what they mean by capacity is that semi trucks are restricted by a weight limit. truck and trailer weight equals 3 and load size equals 4 so overall capacity equals 3+4=7. The capacity can be raised by adding more axles, but that adds more weight and wear items while making the trailer more complex (added axles need to lift up for turns).
@@tommersch4296 diesel electric trains still use diesel engines to power them. The capacity of which ultimately comes from diesel combustion.
Plus fully electric trains are used for passenger transport not freight.
So the main problem still remains.
Why do freight trucks just throw the load in the back and tow it from the front? Is that the most efficient way of bearing the load given the rectangular volumes they carry, or is it also a logistical matter where it might be impractical to do it any other way since everyone already does it this way already, and it's just good enough in most scenarios anyways, etc
@@tommersch4296 Trains can't go everywhere.
Here in the US. A diesel truck can drive 1,000 miles before you have to fuel it. Also in 11 hrs you can drive up 700 miles or more depending on traffic etc. If you put a heavy load on electric trucks the 300 to 500 mile range will be decreased. The 70 to 90 minutes charging time for electric trucks takes time from driving. You can fuel a diesel truck with 300 gallons in 15 minutes
Here in Aus we have trucks that typically range from 25 - 35 Meters can reach up 50+ meters long in some states, They pull anywhere from 80 - 200 tonnes and are expected to cover hundreds and sometimes thousands of Km's of unsealed roads in remote areas.
Even places with sealed roads on major highways ain't it. No one's going to be able to fix an electric truck out on the nullarbour. It is 750K's of nothing at 35C in the day -2C at night and that's without factoring in the road temp.
Electric vehicles have their place but its not for long haul trucking. Too many folk want to put all their egg's in one basket.
@@louiscypher4186 9
You're comparing level 1 electric truck to level 99 diesel truck, give electric some time to grow up and evolve, the first diesels were not great either
Wait until it’s -20 F in the Midwest. See how far it will really go. All those pretty promotional scenes are summer driving
@@ferdtheterd3897 Except that this whole thing forgets how much carbon based power stations are going to be made to sustain all these trucks to get power.
Curious, unless I missed it, you did not touch on the carrying capacity of the Tesla Semi. Elon did the same thing at the unveiling a couple (several) years back. If the energy density in 1kg of fuel equates to 19kg of Tesla's newest battery cell structure (and it does) then you are going to need like 15-18 tons of battery just to get 500 miles with a load of pillows or uncompressed cotton. Not even sure you can put all that weight in batteries just on the tractor because of axle weight restrictions. So not only will a Tesla semi be limited to less than a third of a diesel's cargo load capacity, I think you'd also need a custom trailer to hold the rest of the batteries to keep all the axle weights legal. There is no way Tesla doesn't already know this. My guess is this thing will end up being a 24 foot cube van for inner-city deliveries only.
bingo someone how thinks before doing a video in the internet...... hehe ;)
Exactly, large electric trucks are quite simply a non starter due to energy density. There's a reason we use diesel.
Exactly! Cargo=money. So that "operational cost" cannot compare. Plus drivers can cover less km at an hour. Less km/h= less money, so...
@@wiciuwiciu2783 American trucking is finished when fossil fuels are finished.
@@Withnail1969 You mean the whole world Shipping right? It's not only America who uses Fossil fueled trucks it's the whole world.
The test will be going over the Great Divide in the middle of winter when it's 15 below.
@@electric7487 that is not happining. the ground could not hold up the truck.
plus one heck of a boom if containment is broken. lol
Are you sure you really want to do that, most of the roads would be blocked with stranded electric trucks. Some guys did a real world test of a electric pickup pulling a trailer in the hills, and guess what the range at highway speed going up hill was dismal. And they did it on a 70deg day, now if it was 15 below it would have been even worse.
I agree ! Also in places like straya where having to go 800km or more between fuel stops is a real issue even with modern diesels !
That's about -10 in celsius, if like me that live in the rest of the world are wondering
Ports should be using electric trucks. A lot of these trucks don't travel far but drive all day and night.
Well, market will tell.
That's a great idea, unless they can get diesel fuel cheaply due to location* Another big area for electric automobiles is warehouses, and they'll probably be autonomous,, both small and larger applications.
In fact, automated trucks have been in port transport for years.
ua-cam.com/video/HkauiGYT6YY/v-deo.html
Just as most warehouse fork lifts and pallet "transporters" are electric, Short and Ultra-short high volume transport is a fit for EV -as long as the battery+drivetrain weight is similar to the weight of Diesel Drivetrain+fuel, there will be no "hit to transport capacity".
Like city-cars, local transport is the obvious fit.
For on-highway long distance transport, 80% ... (quick charge capacity - batteries LOVE working between 20% and 80% capacity - not too far outside those limits) ...range needs to be in the 5-6 hour Driving intervals (~360 mile (~580km) range) between rest stops (30 minute rest every 5 or 6 hours is fairly common - regulations may vary for different countries/regions).
@David Brookes , sound much like the condition of Transit Bus Fleets. However, with the owner being municipalities or public the incentive is much higher & there does not appear to be that much conversion to electic propulsion.
Matt I love your channel, and this is yet another great video but I am a truck guy and I have some quibbles with your analyses: EV and ICE trucks may both require the same amount of tires, however diesel trucks require many more fluids and filtration then EVs do, and when it comes to 18 wheelers. those are pretty significant costs. In addition to that all diesel engines that are built after 2010 consume DEF which is an additional cost, There are also brakes and the maintenance of the DPF filter to be considered. In addition to that I don't think the disruption will necessarily come in the the long haul at least not initially . Regional trucking in major metropolitan areas is where EV trucks will dominate. Many trucks spend there average days droning around in stop and go traffic at least for parts of their duty cycle. One must consider that every single second that a diesel truck is standing still in traffic it is idling and thus consuming energy vs an EV which is pretty much consuming nothing when it isn't moving, this may seem trivial but it really can and does add up. The simplest way to put it is, the major initial disruption will not come from trucks that run 100k annually, rather from applications where trucks that run all day but go relatively short distances during that time where the savings will really manifest. Sorry for the long rant it's a subject I'm passionate about. Thank you again Matt for what you do. Cheers!!!!
I like your long rant, thanks for the comment.
as owner of 15 diesel Semi operating in US-CAN , Diesel engine repair is too expensive to operate it. people try everything to from Emission controls bypass and buying 20 years old trucks which legally don't require emission control but they are largest polluters.
Excellent comment, your points are correct and material to the comparison. So thankyou, no apologies necessary. Those trucks in the cities in stop and go traffic are a big source of pollution in a small area, and it seems like they are everywhere as I walk around trying to breath.
Nice to see such passion articulated so well. Thanks for leaving such a well thought out comment. Cheers.
Deliveries within and near cities are such obviously perfect use for electric trucks and vans that it amazes me more companies didn't build their own when none were on the market.
An important consideration in electric vehicles is the extreme weight. To fulfil such a high range, even with the new type of batteries being made with 2x range, the truck has a weight limit. To drive on a road, the truck and trailer must not exceed a certain weight. This means that the truck's hauling capacity will be reduced significantly to only a few tonnes- might as well buy an electric box-van to do the work.
What might work well is having reduced battery range and having a trolleybus-like system which the trucks use on motorways, accompanied by a battery pack used when off the motorways. This means less weight.
They'll just change the rules, as always, to achieve their Agenda........there is no public concern allowed.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@bygrace3455 perpetual motion will never work. Every system has losses, therefore you can't make perpetual motion.
Using the earth's magnetic field as a power source? Well, the magnetic field is far too weak for that!
@@ryanvigus9634 I remember getting those figures from an Adam Something video I watched (before he was widely known to be an asshole) so these figures aren't from nowhere. I can no longer remember the specifics, but I clearly remember that the amount of cargo space lost would be more than a truck company is willing to lose.
I believe fuel cells are lighter for the same weight, maybe they will be the thing the trucking world needs? Or, y'know, move all long distance transport onto electrified railways, and save trucks for last-mile...
@@ryanvigus9634 I'd like to see your maths, though. Batteries aren't exactly light- even Li-ions or Li-Fe-Po batteries still weigh a fair amount.
For such ridiculously long ranges, in such a heavy vehicle, they're gonna be big.
Very interesting presentation ... I'd love to see your cost/mile figures converted to cost per Cargo-Ton Mile, I think the outcome will show electric as far less favorable than is currently being presented: the energy density on electric is lower, meaning more mass of batteries is needed, highway regulations stipulate the maximum gross weight of the truck with it's cargo, therefore the electric truck will not be able to haul so much cargo because of the mass of batteries it's hauling (which for long range I think is going to be pretty significant). This will increase ir's cost per cargo-ton mile (which I suspect is the figure the haulage company is probably interested in; not cost of driving the truck from A-B, but cost of getting {x} tons of cargo from A-B, and I again suspect haulage companies double-up on deliveries to try to keep that truck near it's maximum weight whenever possible, to maximise cost per cargo-ton mile)
The payload on these trucks is 5 tons which makes the whole thing unviable. This is why Elon isn't actually building them.
Although it's important that you consult an experienced transportation provider before moving overweight freight, you can expect to be allowed 22,000 pounds per axle (44,000 total) for these loads in the majority of states.
I love how all the assumptions on this video are ‘based on what Elon said’ and totally ignoring the weight of all those batteries reducing the potential cargo weight…, believing the King of Snake Oil sales 😂
@@ironclad445 It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@mavrickdraft It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
I think electric lorries (trucks in the UK) would work well in the UK. They don't have huge distances to go and if charging takes about 90 mins then they can charge while on lunch or when at the depot/delivery point.
They certainly seem worth trying for fixed route large deliveries, like supermarket distribution centres, where the infrastructure will get a good return on investment.
Or when they are forced to stop for breaks every 2(?) hours
for everything else
rail should be the go to
it's way more efficient
you invest into the infrastructure once
so you don't have to lug around a huge battery or a Diesel tank or even superfluous drivers
EDIT: no more incest
Since every truck driver must make a stop of at least 30 minutes after 4 hours driving, I would think they would target reloading for shorter periods during those brakes. And maybe at hubs while being loaded/unloaded (for trucks in distribution networks for supermarkets etc)
@@Al3xki 4.5hrs driving and then a 45 min (min) break. I like the idea of 2 though and I wish you were my transort manager ;)
Operating cost goes out the window when you realize you need 3 electric semis to carry the same load of 1 diesel semi (when accounting for weight of battery).
You need to be multiplying the operating cost by roughly 3 for the math to make sense.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
As I've said before, imo they can be useful to supplement the industry but not phase out or replace diesel entirely. Some distribution centers can put charging stations in their facilities for running local deliveries, trailer jockeying/ yard dogs, etc, but not full otr through mountains and in serious terrain. There are too many variables, such as being stuck in snowstorms and not being able to charge. Then, the deceased drivers' families will sue everyone involved, including the janitor. The added weight of the batteries would automatically lessen the freight per truck, which would most like only add to the problem.
But...does the "cost" of electricity include the underlying cost of charging stations? The grid build out to support them? Also, what happens to the mountains of toxic batteries when they reach end of life?
Recycling of Lithium batteries 🙌
As for the battery question, I've heard that upcoming Solid-State Batteries would solve that issue, or at least significantly reduce battery-related waste.
@@louisshin642 I have seen many proposed alternatives which appear to be in the works. My point is that right know, today, they are doubling down on lithium/cobalt.
We can't possibly charge all the electric trucks we would need without greatly expanding the electric grid. And there's no money or resources to do that on the scale we would need.
What toxic batteries? Lithium ion batteries are not toxic.
Its interesting to see a well thought out perspective from someone outside trucking. I've driven trucks in Europe for about 20 years, so I have a fair understanding of the industry.
A couple of areas I feel you did not take in to account is the vast majority of trucks driving local routes don't just have one driver. Most of the work I've done involved handing the truck to the next driver. The truck isn't sitting still for the 90 mins it takes to achieve the 80% charge. So add the cost of 2 or 3 extra trucks to the fleet to maintain maximum work load, then the cost of maintenance, insurance, repairs etc. It all adds up and diminishes the advantage of battery powered electric trucks. The saying in trucking is "if its moving, its making you money. If its sitting still, its costing you money".
You highlight in the video the average millage per year and life span of the truck. Most of the larger companies I've worked for replace the trucks at 750,000 - 1,000,000km (Its Europe so its metric) but I have driven trucks that have driven 1.5 - 2 million km. Normally at the end of its life with the company that bought it new the truck is sold in the used market. Have you ever tried to use a 10 year old battery, like in a laptop or a phone. The battery loses its ability to hold a charge with each charge. A diesel truck does not suffer this in anywhere near the same way. So add the devaluation of the resale value trucks to the equation and batteries are a larger cost in the long term compared to diesel.
For me hydrogen wins hands down in trucking. Compared to diesel, its cheaper, more efficient, refuel time is the same, one stop at the pumps to tank up does a days or nights work and compared to batteries it has greater range. But most importantly weighs less. As trucks have total weight limited that includes the cargo (in Europe this is 44ton), hydrogen trucks will be able to carry more cargo.
My personal belief is that cars will continue with batteries but heavy haulage will go down the hydrogen path. This will in turn lead to the hydrogen infrastructure being built. Once that's in place, car drivers regularly driving beyond the range of the battery and having to do a 90 min stop to fuel up will want a return to 5 mins stops on the forecourt. At the end we will have a mix on EV solutions.
I like your comment. Furthermore looking at it from a holistic point of view, one of the beast paths to decarbonise heating in the residential sector is to move to hydrogen. A hydrogen infrastructure is needed in many countries and this transition can be accelerated by having other sectors demanding that resource as well.
I think EVs and hydrogen are both equally required, and not necessarily in opposition, but i definitively see the advantages of hydrogen to advance decarbonisation in other sectors.
In regards to the blue vs green hydrogen situation, I thibk blue hydrogen can kick-start the industry moving towards scaling up the required hydrogen infrastructure, but i would be worry that the strategy would be to rely solely on this supply in the long term. There must be clear plans to speed up green hydrogen production and phase out blue hydrogen as soon as possible.
Very well said sir. Also can this truck drive thru some flooded area diesel truck still is the way to go. There are part of the world electric powered truck may not be viable let say road train this trucks are massive can electric truck replace them? Its all about range and the heavier the truck the more battery it need to move the truck and the load.
Well said, but as far as I know humans did not invent safe and cheap way to use hydrogen. I mean yeah, it's cheaper and lighter, but it's also way more prone to leakage and inflammation. Have I missed some cool new tech that lets people to distribute, dispense and use H as a fuel that has appeared in the last year or two? Because nothing that we use today is suitable.
Oh, and in case you say "we will find the ways later" - yes, we will, but lets not repeat the same mistake we did with electro cars, lets start thinking about using hydrogen as a fuel AFTER we find a way to use it?
Very valid points. The main problem of hydrogen is the low efficiency. The so called green hydrogen is produced through electrolysis using electricity generated from renewable energy sources. The process has energy losses of about 20-30%. Then the hydrogen needs to be compressed to 350 bar or 700 bar at a cost of 3-6% loss, or cooled to be in liquid state at much higher costs. The compressed or liquid hydrogen is then transported and distributed, again, with losses of about 10%. Now the truck is filled with hydrogen, of which only about 50% percent can be converted into electricity by fuel cells. All of these means the electricity - hydrogen - electricity conversion efficiency is somewhere about 30%. Handling of electricity has much higher efficiency.
@Al Jaume @Robert 3nidad @Anton Morozov @Chang Luo
I fully believe that what way large goods vehicles go in terms on EV power storage will shape what everyone does for anything outside local driving (local being a radius of half the battery range or "there and back"). You guys bring up some points I'd never considered like flooded areas or road trains but I wonder how artic and mountain driving effect the batteries performance. I think this is not something that will be decided by drivers, planners or transport managers. Its going to be the accountants as its all going to come down to the profit at the end of the life cycle of the truck.
The other thing we should take in to account is if green hydrogen becomes readily available or solid state batteries deliver what is expected then the winner becomes obvious.
I definitely see the benefit of a mixed solution if the second hand market is relatively unaffected by the batteries life span. I know Tesla have some high confidence in the life span of the battery but have you seen the cost to replace a tesla battery? Personally I'd have a hydrogen as I regularly travel across Europe in a car. My current 9-10 hour drive becomes about 14 hours with current battery tech.
Chang Luo, I remember seeing this somewhere before and I think even with hydrogen being a low percentage for the efficiency of the whole life cycle it was still better than what we currently have. Also I think electric was around a 80 or 90%. I may be wrong on this as I cant find where I saw it.
a cost that you missed is fuel taxes. We already have government running around trying to figure out how to get their pound of flesh from current EV owners, the EV Trucks will also incur this cost and probably more.
It's only a matter of time until the tax collection gets added into the charging stations the way it is now with fuel pumps.
They get you on the registration side. My EVs are $200-$300 more than a regular gas vehicle in California.
@@TobyCostaRica That seems like a drop in the bucket compared to the amount I am charged on a gallon on gas. I will switch to EV but I could not rap my head around owning the Apple of cars. Not a hater but I think you should be able to repair your own vehicle or at least have options. I more than have the skills for this but Tesla says no. As more EVs hit the market this may change.
@@TobyCostaRica i wouldnt expect that to stay that way once the government realizes how much theyre missing. I think its the lack of standardization that has shielded owners from beign charged ast the point of charge to this point. It woudl be trivial to make even home chargers payment collection centers above and beyond the cost of the electricity.
i'd still expect the extra registration fees though. Especially in CA.
@@willstikken5619 I’m sure in a few years, now they’re giving checks out to go electric. My last vehicle was Fuel cell and CA gave me $5000 and carpool for the lease. Toyota provided 15k for fuel since to go 250 miles cost about $80 in H2
Y'know, with how much energy is lost by brakes in big, heavy trucks, hybrids seem like a good place to start. Currently, most of the braking is done by 'Engine Braking', letting the engine resist the transmission with no fuel. Letting generators capture high-torque electricity to be re-used for acceleration (the hardest part for a big truck) just seems like a good idea.
The problem I see barreling directly at us is WHERE IS THE ADDITIONAL ELECTRICITY GOING TO COME FROM? Power production capacity is already overloaded in any place that has restricted or shut down Nat Gas, Oil, and Coal plants.., not to mention Homer's "Nu-cu-lar" plants... (IE: California? -- Texas' grid failure? -- Hurricanes?)
More EVs = more demand. The supply is already strained!
You don't do alot of breaking on the highway. That would only work for box trucks that travel a lot in cities
Braking in an EV truck generates electricity that is stored in the battery.
hybrid, but plug-in EV + Hydrogen. 🤩
@@johnlshilling1446 just gotta build more LFTRs
The electric truck is a nice “pipe dream”right now, that may do well moving freight the furniture, but for now diesel is the magic to get things done. electric trucks will have to over come and out perform the diesel trucks we have now that get the job done. Until then they will be nothing more than a fantasy
I never understood why electric trucks (or cars for that instance) necessarily have to outperform their internal combustion counterparts. If they do 5 - 10% worse, then who cares? It's not like in the 90's people have said, "Oh no, we can't use those trucks, because they're not as efficient as they will be 30 years from now!" We are allowed to factor in the added bonus of heavily reduced carbon emissions, so why do they have to have a head start in efficiency? If usage starts as soon as possible and becomes significantly widespread, in 10 years from now they will be significantly more efficient and at some point surpass the combustion vehicles.
Electric cars were Not commercially feasible just a decade back. Trucks will become electric eventually
@@lonestarr1490 Ask someone that is running a business using commercial vehicles like say a trucking company that runs trucks coast to coast trying to run a profitable business. I’m sure they could explain why the next few trucks they buy have to do better than what they have now. It’s called making money, plain an simple
Back in the 50's they thought "Why retire and scrap a 10 year old coal locomotive?" Yet they did it because the cost for maintenance was so much more expensive than diesel trains. They will find electric trucks much less expensive, and will scrap the diesel ones very soon. One key will be a electric motor and 400 KW battery in the trailer, that can sit for 6 hours between trips at a distribution center charging itself.
Diesel prices almost doubled since you posted this 6 months ago. Electricity costs are going to zero with renewable growth. Diesel cannot compete no matter how you slice it.
Electric trucks are so good out in the American Southwest, you never see them. Thats cause they dont last out here. The heat will eat that battery up in no time.
Bingo.
Yup and even worse in winter especially north of the 49th.
Thanks for including the UK comparison prices, really useful when the cost of fuel can vary so widely in different countries!
You guys are being ripped off by the Queen. Roughly 63p per petrol litre is tax! That's INSANE!
@@Brandon_letsgo It costs even more in Norway, Denmark and Sweden and is roughly the same in Netherlands, Portugal and Italy so for Europe it's only a bit higher than the average.
@@Nolligan That's terrible since there's no commerce without transportation. Tax on energy is the most regressive kinda tax that existis. It's morally indefensible.
@@Brandon_letsgo I don’t think the Queen still collects taxes. I believe that’s the role of the Treasury and it makes sense that the tax collected goes towards maintaining and improving roads. Except it doesn’t as it goes into geneal revenue. So you’re still right - Brits and Aussies are ripped off.
@@mondotv4216 There way more roads in America and they're in a very good shape without overtaxing petrol and diesel.
I remember an article that I read many years ago where an electric car company was flirting with the idea of removable battery pack. You would pull up to a station where the used battery pack would be slid out and charged. A freshly charged battery pack would then be slid in and connected to the engine. The total time for the change was only a few minutes. I wonder if something like this could be done efficiently for trucks.
This is now being done by Nio cars in China. I would imagine trucking is not far behind.
@@brendanmccann5695 cars? If they could make the batteries smaller and more powerful, that’d be great but they way it stands now America and or any counties infrastructure will not and cannot handle that constant bombardment to its infrastructure. We’re already complaining about the slightest pot holes in the road now- imagine if we had to immediately switch to those batteries and what it what do to shipping and receiving as well as the consumer.
What about Hyliion ERX? Carries generator with it and burns RNG with infrastructure already in place. 1000 range.
I don't believe there ever will be a "flood" of EV trucks. I can see them being adopted in small numbers by large specialized carriers like WalMart but I cannot imagine a large volume of EVs until there is an enormous overhaul of the type of support that surrounds the trucking industry
Walmart, Amazon, etc. will drive this market. Any company that controls both docks will put in chargers for the trucks while loading and unloading. It will be likely to cut their shipping costs significantly.
You also need to factor in the payload loss because of the extra weight of the batteries. For long range trucking, we're probably looking at close to 1000 KWH weighing over 10,000 lbs. Even then, it will still have a shorter range than Diesel.
A 180 KW battery is about 2,000 pounds. They don't need more than 400 KW in the tractor, but ultimately they will probably have 200 - 250 KW in the tractor, with another 200 - 250 KW in the trailer with it's own motor on one of the trailer axles. The current 15 liter engines and a 13 speed transmission is about 2,800 pounds, while a 300 gallon fuel tank is 2,000 pounds.
if you want to make electric semis the future of transportation, you must first make electric railroads. if the rail road can be operated with out a battery it can transport the bulk of the produce to distribution centers in major municipalities. Transportation to suburbs or rural areas would be done with the battery powered semi. lower energy consumption in the battery powered semi would be less worrisome and cost effective to not preform. The persisting problem would be the rate of charge, but as time goes on that will easily be improved and would burden the consumer less in the end.
We would be well served by having more freight on rails instead of the roads for many reasons, including this.
@@johnhorner5711 Perhaps, but not every little town or even modest sized city has a rail spur. Still going to need trucks to haul away cattle , produce, etc.
I am a retired truck driver from the UK, by far the biggest overhead for running a truck it’s a fuel costs if you take that down transport companies would jump at it, the big problem I can see is taxation, A big chunk of the cost of diesel‘s tax the government takes a very big wedge, so where is the government going to find the revenue obvious to me they’ll put it on battery charging defeating any financial advantage
Down here in New Zealand a supermarket company has been running electric delivery trucks for about a year, working in cities not between them.
Ali's dairy? Your government is doing nothing to accelerate the change. The "Clean and Green" is all vaporware and clever marketing.
@@drosophilamelanogaster3957 Don’t worry we’ll just have a ton of climate refugees and local governments won’t do anything. Until one country eventually conceded and gives their sovereignty to the UN effectively making them have control over the movement of people. This will then ripple effect and every country will give up sovereignty in order to solve the problem and we will have a global state to battle climate change and probably to colonize the solar system, too.
Years ago milk vans were electric so as to not wake everyone. Not new tech.
@@KRYMauL Sounds awful. Incentivise people who want power to of a global government to push a problem not give solutions.
@@James-sk4db Idk Expanse was pretty cool.
Glad to see the side by side comparison with us here in the UK 🇬🇧. thanks for another great video 👍🏼👍🏼
It seems that the easiest entry route for electric trucks is in the local to medium run area. Long range semi’s have problems that make them a more complicated proposition. For example, local/medium trucks don’t have have to contend with driver fatigue, pressure to reach a distant destinations on time, hurry up and wait charging, and bad weather that may occur along the way. To use a baseball analogy, it looks like Elon Musk has gone for the home run rather than a series of singles and doubles. Babe Ruth had a record strikeouts in addition to record for home runs.
I have an idea for electric semis. Put the batteries in the tractor but put another battery in the trailer. The trailer battery can give you more range, but the real benefit is when you drop your trailer and pick up another one. You wouldn’t have to wait to charge it because it would be hot when you pick it up. They can charge the trailer when they’re loading/unloading it at the dock or when it’s in the yard.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@bygrace3455 there ya go! Or we could build all of our roads in electro magnetic fields and we could drive through them! I’ll bet that we wouldn’t have to rely on power plants anymore. Just get enough people driving through electro magnetic fields and we solve the whole problem!
Cut any claim that Elon Musk makes by 75% and you might start getting into the world of reality.
I said might.
► Tesla fan-boys destroyed_ Part 1 - Low Battery Day
ua-cam.com/video/-D6Y-14A7l8/v-deo.html
Dec 29, 2020 13:51 -----------------------------
► Tesla[]an boys destroyed: Part 4 - why internal combustion will dominate
ua-cam.com/video/xEKJljhv1Do/v-deo.html
Jan 1, 2021 15:33 -----------------------------
► 12 things I've learned after driving an electric car 9000km
ua-cam.com/video/1gqbTHk4egw/v-deo.html
Feb 3, 2021 31:20 -----------------------------
Electric batteries only loose range & I’d say a 500miles range is probably more like 200-250miles if you’re towing a ton of weight.
You can burn the motor out faster cuz there’s no cooling system that’s touching the cemetery of the motor at all, & w diesels they have so much torque in em they can be hauling a lot & also be getting 15-17mpg or at least the old ones are.
For example my old 95 f250 w the 7.3 Powerstroke was hauling 5000lbs on a an all day trip. It got 16mpg, it might’ve gone slower, but it still used the same amount of fuel towing all that weight/ 10-11k lbs including the weight of the truck, trailer & vehicle.
EVs are not the future it’s just we have politicians that are forcing it & create the same amount of pollution that the diesels do.
@@michaelbenoit248 well I think diesel does produce even more pollution then EVs but still not by much. There has to be a better alternative.
@@michaelbenoit248 NO Semi tractor has EVER gotten 15 to 17mpg. 5 to 8 is the standard for something with the weight & gearing of a Semi.
@John Brennan What I want to know is...WHO'S paying for a truckstop to install a couple of HUNDRED "mega chargers" and the infrastructure needed to support (electrically/grid-wise) the MASSIVE electrical draw on the grid that said truckstop will now create?
What if I have to stop at a rest area because I run out of logbook hours? How do I charge my truck there? Most States don't even want truckers PARKING in rest areas, so how will we convince them to put in chargers too?
I worry about what happens to all the smashed battery packs that are from traffic crashes. Fire risk, storage, recycle ability, etc...
You do realise gas is highly flammable
@@chrisward5626 Gasoline is. Diesel is not.
The flammability of battery packs is a real concern. Remember when Galaxy notes were recalled because they could blow up in your pocket?
@@cdunn2669 the phones didn’t “blow up “ at all . Yes they burn but don’t explode . It’s not gasoline. You seem to ignor all the cars on the roads with their gasoline plus the tankers carrying the stuff .
@@chrisward5626 lol....
The guy that invented the pneumatic car got shut down bc they said "if theres a wreck, the air tank would act like a missile ".....he said a gas tank is not a teddy bear.
He had windmills manually turning air compressors to fill air tanks for practically nothing.
glad you aren't in charge of anything...whatever minor peril that is doesn't compare to impaired drivers, lack of efficiency and labor costs...dude the trucks will move autonomously...running 24/7 with little fuel and no labor or liability it's the one thing we can all look forward to...lower prices on anything...you aren't in business are you? So you wouldn't get it.
I'm surprised you didn't mention an overhead catenary system for trucks. Lack of big batteries would not be an issue in such scenario. I think it's the best long term solution.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
@@bygrace3455 WTF are you talking about? There's no such thing as perpetual motion.
The end of the video is exactly the reason why hyliion trucks, utilizing CNG and RNG (net carbon negative), are by far the best solution for the class 8 trucking market. TCO, range (1000 miles), as well as the fact that the infrastructure is already in place for natural gas makes it to be the best solution by far. Hyliion will be a major player in the space mark my words.
Good video! It seems that a big miss is no mention of Hyliion. What I love about their solution is that their powertrain charges while operating and is flexible but initially uses natural gas which is available already (although not widely enough). Their solution seems to be the best for early adopters.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
I think you'll see more electric trucks in Europe to start with. Stricter time limits on how long a driver and drive for, combined with generally shorter hauls make the market more conducive to at least this early generation of BEV trucks. I wouldn't count hydrogen out at all, as Matt mentioned the infrastructure isn't there for either yet. It's a matter of who can build out their respective system the quickest and be the most price competitive.
On the contrary, it seems to me that hydrogen is the correct option for cargo transport (trucks and trains) and public transport; while batteries for the particular segment. In addition, the infrastructure for hydrogen is similar to that used for CNG.
EDIT: and don't forget that batteries are not recycled yet (cost / benefit)
I agree that shorter hauls make electric trucks much more viable. I would think that even in the US a large percentage of the routes for a truck are depot-to-depot or point-to-point deliveries that are much less than 500 miles per day in total. These are also probably the routes that cause the most pollution with lots of low-speed start and stop type driving.
As to infrastructure, there is already a huge distribution network for electricity with "only" the last mile stuff missing; the charging stations. Hydrogen on the other hand has no distribution network and would, perhaps, be prohibitively expensive to establish in the relative short term. I am a big fan of hydrogen but I believe that it is probably a next-gen fuel source. whereas electricity is ubiquitous and easily distributed today.
@@afewdeer6627 I have *zero* experience with this. But is it really a last-mile problem for the heavy-duty charging requirements that trucks will require? I'm thinking that it might require more of build out than the typical automobile based charging station would require. That's just very much a guess, however.
@@fmvm I disagree on public transport, China already has proven that electric busses are more than possible, one city the size of small countries in population switched to fully electric busses in just a few years (forgot which city it was). My local (well provincial) public bus operator bought some hydrogen busses 2 years ago and shelved them after a few months due to too expensive.
In Europe most trainlines are electrified, so no need for hydrogen there. As for trucks like the original commentator said, EV trucks would fit perfectly into the time limits imposed on the trucking industry (After 3-4 hours mandatory 20-30 minute stop to rest, no longer than +-10 hour driving untill taking a much longer rest, meaning around a max daily distance of 525 miles with stops during which some charging can be done). Hydrogen trucks might stil be used, but more likely as a niche sector.
Hydrogen really could play a part in air and sea travel when it comes down to transportation, for other things it is much more limited.
And no, the infrastructure for hydrogen isn't similar for CNG, or better it isn't usefull. Sure it is similar in that both are a gas, but that is mostly where it ends. Most of CNG infrastructure isn't really fit for hydrogen and there aren't many cng cars/trucks to start with, so there isn't much infrastructure anyway.
As for recycling, EV companies are already looking into recycling as a cost saving measure since they don't need to constantly mine and refine their needed resources, something that is rather costly due to the low % of these resources in the overall mined material, however batteries already have a rich presence of these resources.
@@fmvm the UK freight industry is annoyed at government saying hydrogen could replace overhead line expansion for rail, they say having the extra equipment for the tanks and fuel cells would be a few extra carriages’ worth. They want overhead electrification precisely because it’s got the least space, weight, and has the highest power output rating.
Where I think this tech could really be a winner: Buses.
School buses don't need massive range, or even highway speeds, but as it stands now run the same big diesel engines the big trucks run
I could easily see the next generation of school buses, and perhaps even public transit buses going electric with the tech being developed for these trucks.
Always a funny moment when watching "some dude in America's video" about electric trucks ~ and then all of a sudden, there's images of a local shopping street in a Swedish city you've been to multiple times... just that moment of thinking "Wait, what? Why is he showing clips from Malmö... oooh, right... Scania trucks! Skåne!" 😁
It's crazy to know that in the US drivers are allowed to do 11h a day.
In Germany for safety reasons we have a maximum driving time of 9h (exceptions for 10h are possible from time to time)
And after 4.5 h you have to do a 45min break.
Electric trucks are a perfect fit for German regulations. Makes you wonder why they don't release them here first. 😕
It's already happened. For example, MAN put the eTGM (200 km range for urban use) on the road in 2019.
The video focusses a lot on Tesla and on the US perspective, but Volkswagen is building them already.
U.S. is much larger, we need more time to get to locations in a timely matter.
@@synura8086 Because short range trucking is not an issue, anybody can make those.
Here in the US, we must do a 30 minute break after 8 hours of driving, and as he mentioned we get a total of 11 hours to drive. We can be on duty or driving for a total of 14 hours in a day, then we’re required to take a 10 hour break.
Canada allows 13hrs driving
I want to see the battery usage on the Tesla truck the 500 mile range truck climbing say the Ike in Colorado fully loaded.
And the recharge when they are going downhill.
They won't even release cold weather performance, lol.
Me too. I'd like to see a battery powered semi oull 20 or 30 ton up them mountains in winter lol
How stupid do they think we are. And that peckerhead talking don't realize a diesel engine provided his last meal
@@357bullfrog9 piece of cake; the electric truck will out torque the diesel big time; it'll maintain highway speed up that hill
@@357bullfrog9 Batteries can be heated and well insulated to do that job. Once they are under load, the will heat themselves with the discharge. I guess this challenge would only be one if you start at the bottom of the hill having parked the truck over night there in a cold winter night. But this wouldn't be good on a diesel either :-)
I driven over Wolf Creek Pass on a Push bike in my youth. I know quite right what you are talking about ;-)
I was talking to a friend who designed what is essentially a black hole that condenses electricity from our environment.
This would provide constant energy without the need for wind, sunshine, or any other source of backup energy.
He and his partners built a facility and are now manufacturing enough units to power 200 semi trucks for the Dept of Defense.
Once you own one of them, you will have free electricity forever, or as long as the unit remains in working condition.
It was a fascinating conversation and wish I could have retained more detail information about it.
This is what Tesla was doing but on another level.
Just changing the oil in a big rig can cost thousands per year. Down-time is one of the costliest for owner/operators.
All you have to decide is where the originating energy comes from
Now we just have to find a source of magic free electricity to charge and manufacture the stupid batteries. Perhaps we could burn unicorn poop?
Why do EV enthusiasts insist on breezing past the major impediments to going all green: The fact that minerals necessary for battery production require massive amounts of fossil fuels to mine and transport them and that surface mining of certain minerals destroy forested lands?
@@004Black ignorance is bliss.
@@004Black Given the share price increases in rare earth minerals, I would suggest that some people are all-too-keenly aware of the realities of the sector...
The sun. Solar powered Megacharging. Tesla technology.
I'm glad you talked about hydrogen. I don't think semi cares about infra because a large business like pepsico can install a hydrogen station in their facility, unlike homes.
Hydrogen ain't goin' anywhere. That's a petrochemical pipedream the gas and oil companies need to stay in business - they gotta sell something they extracted to make a buck. Hydrogen is dangerous and would need an entire coast-to-coast distribution network.
Think Hindenburg. Kablooey goes hydrogen! Just like Nikola.
@@beaumob do you have any knowledge on gas tank safety? Petroleum gas and such are also stored quite safely in gas tanks, and hydrogen, quickly rising up into the air would actually be safer than that. We aren’t transporting hydrogen in big balloons that just explode at random.
Also, hydrogen generators with over 80% efficiency can be built on location with just electricity and water. That will be a quite attractive solution in the futre
Logistics Analyst here (since 1997). Battery vehicles have a very limited scope of use. What people don’t realise is that some vehicles can tow up to 200tons making the Tesla & co options you’ve put out here as virtually useless. We also have a massive problem with infrastructure. The mega chargers will also require massive upgrades to distribution systems. I recently participated in a project that would require a $15billion upgrade in regional Australia to enable BEV trucks to operate. But, that didn’t include the generation implications that would include increasing fossil fuel power station output. So, while EVs are efficient once the power is inside the battery the delivery to the vehicle is extremely inefficient. H2 on the other hand has scaleability and can utilise existing networks. While H2 vehicles for domestic use may see limited adoption H2 makes sense for heavy duty applications including Aircraft and shipping. Remember for every kilo of additional weight (battery) will mean less capacity for the operator which equals less revenue. Not only that but if the vehicles can’t be charged at the maximum then this means more time off the road. This will mean any of those savings you’ve outlined in your video will evaporate extremely quickly. (I forgot to add the repayment on the distribution upgrade at current power prices was 64 years)
A topic that I wonder about is the implementation of the grid system we are going to require to support this transition to non-ICEs. Considering the amount of energy produced each day by the fuel based economy can any of the current grid systems cope as suppling 1MW chargers, as it would not take a great number of these before they quickly saturate the system. I think part of the solution will be to charge these vehicles during the night when grids are running at a minimum. Only problem with this is a lot of lorries travel during this time to avoid heavier traffic.
Volvo trucks already testing in Norway. But they say they need to charge in the lunch break
My lunch break seems to only ever be 10 minutes about 7 hours after I start working so hope it can charge fast
@@juliogonzo2718 no way it’s gonna charge that fast 💀
You should have your own channel on Discovery my friend, your videos have such high quality and the content is on point and well made. Can't get enough of your videos
Discovery is junk compared to this guy.
Massively. It was good back in the 90's, but not anymore.
@@beaudavis3808 That's why we need to make it good again with the right people ;)
Watching this in March 2022... LOL at the diesel gas prices from last year. Crazy how quick things can change. Great video. Love this guy!
Utilize the kinetic energy from the movement of the tires and or axle. You'd have more than enough energy and everyone would be feeding back into the power grid.
@@rogerstarkey5390 check your definitions of energy.
@@rogerstarkey5390 perpetual motion is the action happening. Not the energy produced.
What about natural gas? Hyliion has the ERX which is also suppose to be delivered in 2022. Natural gas currently has the infrastructure to deal with demand, and the batteries can be recharged in 8 minutes with Hyliion’s battery design. I would add them to the running between hydrogen and full electric.
Filling up semi's with NG is a non starter.
Another great video I appreciate the reference to the Engineering Explained towing video. BTW, at 12:35, in the speed up truck stop clip, there is a guy leaking in the bushes.
The EE video is so good. Love his break down on all the math behind this. And man ... you've got some eagle eyes catching that guy taking a leak.
@@UndecidedMF lol, my eyes just happened to follow the movement in that portion of the frame, had to rewind to confirm. Keep up the great work on the videos!
@@UndecidedMF Sometimes he's as dumb as a bunch of rocks. In a video about electric trucks he thought that mountainous regions wouldn't be a good fit.... That's where they will shine the brightest. Zooming up steep hills at the speed limit instead of crawling, and recovering a good chunk of their range on the downhills, not burning through their brakes.
@@samuelprice538 You really come across as someone who didn't try to listen, didn't try to learn, and just heard something that sounds wrong to you and decided "he's as dumb as a bunch of rocks" without doing any further research. If you bothered to watch the towing video in question, you'd already know exactly why "Zooming up steep hills at the speed limit" isn't going to work out well for electric trucks towing a lot of cargo.
Consider what you pay a truck driver. All costs. The electric vehicle's will be far more effecient and cost less.
Fuel cells are inefficient and that idea should be discarded completely. I don't know why some people are still talking about that. SMH
One, possibly significant, point that you didn't cover is placing charging or refueling stations in the truck's home depot. The cost of this for electric charging is essentially nominal, since all you have to do is install the charger and hook up the power. Most of these heavy truck depots will probably already have very high-capacity electric service on-site. To install an hydrogen refueling station, you need to install expensive hydrogen storage capacity on top of the expensive hydrogen refueling equipment itself. Once that's in, you have to have the hydrogen itself delivered in a timely fashion on expensive liquid hydrogen-capable trucks. I think there may be a place for hydrogen-powered heavy trucks, but I think the ultimate win will go to batter-electric.
Hyliion's Hypertruck ERX will be a huge success. When fueled with renewable natural gas it can deliver net-negative carbon emissions.
there are ways to make trucking more economical, but these are more infrastructure challenges than tech challenges
I would like to see a version of this video but also done for cold weather climates, such as Canada. In Canada our max weight for legal trucks is 63,500kgs and we can drive for 13 hours. Cold weather massively affects battery efficiency. Would like to hear your thoughts.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
That’s called background radiation, it’s so low in power that it’s called background for a reason. And some truck drivers have issues hitting bridges and power lines at 13’6” high now, it would mean a lot more bridge hits to generate enough power for a watch to tick just one second.
What hasn't been discussed much is the enormous amount of extra renewable electricity needed to replace gasoline and diesel usage.
Wholeheartedly agree -- what is base power for the charger systems if the solar don't shine & wind doesn't blow ? if the renewable storage capacities aren't adequate? anyone read about the Glasgow power issues bringing back coal plants on line since the wind didn't blow? - every time the EVs are promoted all conveniently omitted,
@@jimjones9100 that’s okay, as long as baseload is mostly renewable it’s fine if coal or gas plants are used for peaking
@@calebweldon8102 Thx for followup - but not ok if the activists momentum is to ELIMINATE fossil fuels. Where does your reply then sit? With all the modelling in the Covid area how is it that the climate change promoters have not supplied modelling on availability & costs for2030,2035,2050 energy /electricity supply when fossil fuels are ELIMINATED? MOST curious question is why haven't we asked for them?
@@jimjones9100 Just do as you're told, peasant.....
@@jimjones9100 this reminds me of something I seen on tictok. A guy pulled out a generator from his tesla car.
Texas-based Hyliion is already testing Class 8 electric powertrain trucks with operators fuelled by carbon-negative RNG.
@@fredbloggs5902 I don´t think that is the case. In California, 77% of all on-road fuel used in natural gas vehicles in 2019 was RNG.
Wow, i've been into lot of manths or software dev or games side to be unable to think RNG as anything else than RandomNumberGenerator
beautiful, i've have suggested to add Solar on electric airplanes cars, trucks buses trains just about everything everywhere electricity is used & needed. The sun is stronger up in the sky when/where there are NO clouds.
Still have the solar and plug in option for emergencies, but even then there are portable kinetic generators that would assist as well.😎👍🌎
description: "towing a lot of weight takes a major hit on efficiency" - no, efficiency of electric drivetrains is still about the same under load (usually the efficiency of electric motors is between 85-95% over a wide range of operating points; i.e. it barely changes with varying load).
It's the other way around: ICE cars and semis can run closer to their most efficient operating point when under load (the efficiency of a combustion engine has far more variance, from
Regenerative braking is going to be a significant cost savings with not having to replace bake components.
Diesel semi trucks use engine breaking instead of breaks, when going down a hill and some trucks even have a retarder installed... They're not burning any diesel when going down a hill, but unlike BEVs, they aren't getting anything back from it either.
@@Daddo22 Yes I understand the brake retarder/engine braking features because I used to drive heavy trucks for a living. You're not allowed to use those within city limits due to the noise of the revving engine and most of the braking occurs while city driving. Another big plus will be no more shifting.
@@glennjones1054 thanks, I didn't know that from my limited experience just playing EuroTruck Sim... Now I see that the regen braking is even bigger deal for semis than I realized
Would you break that much when traveling long distances? One of the problems with the electric cars is that they get better mileage in town because there's lots more breaking and less mileage on the road because you don't use the regenerative braking very much. And also what about the weight capacity. I thought this video would talk more about the mileage and weight factors.
The one thing to remember for Semi Electrics is that in a Diesel unit, Engine (ie. 'Jake') Braking is completely wasted engine cycles, whereas a proper implementation of ReGen braking done through the engine (reverse load generating) as well as the braking system will (should?) return a decent amount of energy back into the system, especially for those that drive up/down Mountain passes. No energy will be wasted as heat when bringing these monsters to a stop, unlike current trucks.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
One way to add range to a electric truck is add batteries and possibly a motor to the trailer battery. This would make perfect combination for a trucking company in Oregon that transfers trash to a landfill that is about 150 miles east of Portland Oregon. The trailers sit for 1-3 days before being filled, then driven east, unloaded, and driven back to Portland. A 400 KW battery on the trailer, and a 200 KW motor can recharge it on downhills, or add power to the combo when going up hills. A 40 amp 800 volt DC connection to the tractor can move 64 KW when there are two + 800 VDC, 2 negative conductors (with #6 wire and a 50 amp 5 wire plug and a #10 ground). If the truck is using 2 KW per mile and the trailer another 2 KW per mile, it will have a 200 mile range without significantly depleting the tractor truck battery during the run east and back to Portland, they could keep running the truck almost 24/ 6 days a week, like the existing diesel trucks run.
For supermarkets, a 50 amp 480 volt receptacle near the loading docks could power a onboard charger that will recharge the trailer battery with one cord, and the truck battery with another cord, and charge at 40 KW per hour per 50 amp cord. They normally spend at least 1 hour unloading at each store, so the range would be extended by 40 miles during each hour of charging. At the distribution center, the truck could get a full charge in a short time, while a trailer can take 6-10 hours before it will be needed again. So perhaps a 200 KW battery on the truck and a 400 KW battery on each trailer would make the best use of the battery weight and cost.
Yes there are at least 5 companies already making trailers (and even RV's) with a battery and electric motor in the trailer to be pulled by a diesel truck to extend the range and reduce fuel costs.
NO they can not. there i just saved you 13 minutes.
in order for electric trucks to have the same range as diesel ones do now, the battery on the truck will have to take up the whole trailer making the truck completely useless. the tesla truck proved this
all these people have no idea, if anything would work it would be a hydrogen electric truck
@@2SpyC_ a hydrogen-electric truck would be even worse as it's literally a rolling bomb. hydrogen is very flammable. It's the reason why the Hindenburg was a disaster and why all airships now use helium.
Bright future, until the next Carrington Event. We need also a revolution in power lines.
There’s a lot we have to upgrade and work on for sure.
And power production, how is charging all these vehicles at night on a renewable grid suppose to work without efficient and economic energy storage. Without a carbon free base load like new nuclear or geothermal (which both have their limitations) this will be a tough ask.
@@anydaynow01 I have solution for that .. a Global grid..a high voltage DC intercontinental grid to transfer renewable energy from Asia to Europe to USA..so when Australia has day it will send power to the countries in night and vice versa ..already most countries has a grid now they need to connect over international borders and make money ..feasible ? day dream?
Agreed. Tesla Power Packs are going to be mass produced soon, with wireless power transmission as part of the package, gradually replacing the grid.
@@anydaynow01 : I just received a notice of electrical sources here in Ontario, Canada. . . 56% nuclear, 23% Hydro Electric. The only fossil fuel, Natural Gas, accounts for about 6.3%.
Fun fact. A new state of the art natural gas plant has opened in my hometown. The plant has 4 boilers with a total capacity of 346 megawatts. This means if just 2 Tesla semis fast charge at the same time anywhere in the footprint of that power plant then they would be loading a total of 1 percent of the grid. This is just 2 trucks in a town of more than 60000 homes.
… agree with most comments on cost.
I manage a heavy vehicle fleet including procurement, add this to costs;
1/ Charge time needs costing in the equation, we hot-seat long distance semis, driver 1 gets out, driver 2 gets in. We’d need 2 electric trucks to do the same job as 1 diesel, so double all fixed overheads.
2/ What is the resale value?, we capture this as depreciation- a real cost that needs adding into km costs
Great piece otherwise
:)
Introducing the third option (hydrogen) after comparing the costs of diesel and BEV makes it difficult to compare all three. The price of hydrogen is significant.
You need about 3-4x the kwh to produce the equivalent in hydrogen power if you use green hydro. So, whatever the cost of energy is to charge a battery truck times 3x is sort of the lower end of that spectrum. At the prices cited, that would be more expensive than diesel. Of course you would not use grid electricity for either. So it may not matter as much in the end considering electricity may end up costing a fraction of that. At that point other cost dominate the operational cost.
@@JillesvanGurp dont forget gas leaks. It is insanely hard to contain Hydrogen an it is insanely dangerous if it leaks in the closed space.
You have to check e-hiways videos... they exist in Germany and Sweden...they are cheap to implement and efficient charging while driving...the electric trucks have pantographs in their roofs to full charge while running under electric lines cantenary with 800 volts similar to trains... that's the future! 500kw battery with pantographs... always fully charged to run on suburban roads
yes this is the way we can have electric trucks
Could be viable, maybe not as elegant but definitely a good solution.
@@Gengh13 hiways are always ugly anyway... with all that new electric structures, they can improve road lightening and include green solar and wind energy conduit cross country all over European continent between major cities...
I was going to write a comment similar and I agree, I think overhead power supply on key highways and freeways is the way to go, not just for trucks, but for cars and busses as well. Due to the height difference in cars and trucks it may be better to put the power on the ground like a 3rd rail but then you will have issues of idiots (or children) electrocuting themselves so, I don't know.
@@legallyfree2955 the height of electric road catenary is usually between 5 and 6 metres ...
Today's diesel price $3.297 in USA amplifies these savings. There is a fast approaching inflection where they wont be able to give away diesel trucks.
One thing I always see that's missing from these evaluations is the folks that service the vehicles. You can find thousands of gasoline/diesel engine mechanics, especially for passenger cars; there's a huge pre-existing base of knowledge and experience.
On the flip side, the current knowledge base for electric trucks is pretty much zero, and good luck finding a mechanic that's not the ones from the companies selling you the truck - which might have to fly one in from a different state to look at the truck. Nobody talks about it, but it's going to become a big issue when you need your vehicle serviced because it's stopped working and you need to get back on the road...
Breakdowns will not be a major issue for years. Despite the negative reputation electric cars can go several thousand miles without fail, mostly tires are the limiting factor. As far as service tesla already has mobile mechanics. It would not take all that long to setup a heavy equipment version. Training would be the limiting factor
@@francis_lang years? That's unrealistically optimistic. How many auto accidents are there every single day? As the percentage of electric vs gasoline vehicles goes up, the need to repair them goes up as well... and with california's mandate that no new gasoline vehicles are sold by 2030, that's suddenly going to become a massive issue.
You could say the same thing about coal steam locomotives in the late 40's. Many mechanics for the old design, few for the new design. But when maintenance costs, and the cost to distribute coal to refueling stations every 250 miles along each rail track, they finally decided that diesel electric was the way to go, and closed many maintenance shops, scrapped trains that had a 30 year service life left, when some where as new as 8 years old. By 1960, very few steam trains where still in freight service.
I think the same thing will happen with electric trucks. Once they figure out they can carry many of the batteries in the trailer, have a smaller motor there controlled by the cab throttle and brakes, charged with regenerative braking, they will quickly switch to all electric to save on fuel costs, and overall maintenance. They will train new mechanics! In 10 years, I think it will be difficult to buy a new diesel powered truck.
Sounds just like regeneration systems came into this world and to this date, you still have to get towed to the dealership with a new truck.
Like any new technology people will have retrain or be left behind. New mechanics will automatically be trained in this technology.
America needs more trains for long distance hauling. It'd cut out a long of truck haulage
Yes, but trains will only get you so far. You still need trucks for the final mile(s).
@@UndecidedMF the trains will significantly increase efficiency and reduce the need of lithium/batteries.
@@UndecidedMF in many countries around the world they even have trams and trolleybus that doesn't need gigantic batteries to operate.
@@carholic-sz3qv Efficiency is not increased by trains. Trains are rigid, inflexible and ultimately only profitable for heavy loads, but not for fast, flexible and direct transport. In addition, trains are extremely loud, louder than commercial vehicles with combustion engines, so that noise barriers and even noise protection tunnels have to be built again and again to protect the residents from the noise of the trains.
@@carholic-sz3qv Let's face it. Separate lanes have to be built for trams and trolly buses. Moreover, trams and trolly buses are extremely vulnerable to unscheduled diversions. Trams and trollies are also not flexible, but can only follow a specific route. Trams and trolly buses lack flexibility - and ultimately, trams in particular are very noisy - even compared to buses with combustion engines.
It's all fun and games till your battery decides she has to take a sh!!!! 3-7k today, 7-9k tomorrow, and that's for a small car
No different to Gearbox or diff taking a Sh!!! Batteries will come down in price and will last longer History shows this, Diesel always goes up
what I think could be a good idea if possible is to put extra battery packs in the containers and charge them at the docks, cause the trucks often leave trailers at warehouses and pick it up after it's unloaded or loaded so it would avoid trucks from waiting to recharge. The only thing is it would need way more security for these super expensive trailers.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.
you failed to mention the weight of the battery, that would most definitely cut back the cargo load, which means a higher price pre ton delivered compared to a diesel truck.
"Maximum allowable weight for trucks on U.S. Interstate highways is 80,000lbs, including tractor weight, chassis and container weight,and cargo weight." I agree its a very important factor and they don't say or had any specifications about it or mention it.
Where are you getting the power to charge these trucks. And what are you going to do with the old batteries
shhhhhh
It is cheaper to recycle the metals in an old battery than to mine and refine new metal. In other words, all old truck batteries will be recycled.
@@kdungan100 At what cost of a new battery pack for the truck?? So they are recycled but then you have to buy another $50k (or way more) battery? C'mon man! Joe Biden lingo there.
@@kdungan100 Then why are only 5% of used EV's currently recycled ?
its sad to say but it is still far...far cheaper to mine and refine these units than recycle...if that were not the case we'd not be land filling them at the rate like we currently are..
that may all change....but right now were just landfilling a problem for another generation to deal with..
Get educated, jezus. Answer to your first question: Renewable energy, probably solar. Next, I simply 'googled 'recycle tesla batteries' and this popped up along with a bunch of ADs trying to turn me into a recycler. The mere FACT that someone is running ads for recycling batteries tells me there is a 'market' for recycling these batteries and it's apparently very robust. Good O'' American ingenuity! medium.com/tradr/teslas-approach-to-recycling-is-the-way-of-the-future-for-sustainable-production-5af99b62aa0e
Apparently Tesla built their batteries with recycling in mind. Smart. You unchangeable old folks can stop poo-pooing the future now. You're starting to look like a bunch of geezers demanding more whale-oil.
If you haul lumber down a mountain on your truck, the energy recovered, should be enough to Get you back Up = free fuel?
You get most of the energy back, but it’s not 100% efficient so it’s not free
@@PlaidZoomer The point is thaT the heavier vehicle om the way down, recover more than IT takes to drive the empty one up. There is a mine operation that Uses electric trucks, which are discharged to the Grid after every shift because they net generate more Energy from the rocks than driving empty Up. : www.greencarreports.com/news/1124478_world-s-largest-ev-never-has-to-be-recharged
Eh, friction
The fuel here is lumber.
To me, at this point, the main value of e-trucks would be in replacing short distance trucking, such as food delivery, waste collection, road and construction work, where you do many but short ranged tours with lots of stop and go. That would make cities cleaner and provide experience with technology. The future will show if battery technology ever will provide the necessary energy density to enable such long range transport.
Although it's important that you consult an experienced transportation provider before moving overweight freight, you can expect to be allowed 22,000 pounds per axle (44,000 total) for these loads in the majority of states.
You forgot to factor in the fact that - at least in the EU - drivers are required by law to stop for at least 45 minutes after driving a maximum of 4.5h continuously. Time which can be used to charge.
Europe is also betting more on Hydrogen for heavy lifting like trains and trucks, and even Steel production, which is a bit more lucrative as it is significantly less dependent on resources from outside of Europe for production
We are 3-5 years away from a technological paradigm shift. Compute power and battery storage will make this the roaring 20s.
Meh computing power has began to flatline
Battery storage is the bottleneck right now lithium ion and cobalt batteries are peak technology right now and inefficient at storing and releasing energy in a timely manner, long recharge times and a finite amount of resources to make them, Musk needs to stop screwing around with cars and rockets and get on perfecting graphene batteries
@@russianprussian4683 I reckon we are 4-5 from the resolving the fundamental challenges to advanced material batteries (graphene, solid state, nuclear diamond) and mass production of batteries with energy densities 5X lithium within a decade.
You know what happened after the roaring 20's....
A shortage of silver and rare earth minerals will make this "paradigm shift" only possible on paper.
For long-haul trucks, if they can get the charging time down under 2 hours, and the comfortable range over 300 miles, it's totally viable, assuming the mass of the vehicle doesn't eat too far into the payload capacity and charging stations aren't hard to find. You have to take breaks anyway, so driving half your day and then pulling off and grabbing dinner while your truck charges is completely acceptable. Another big part of unavoidable downtime is loading/unloading, so I'd be interested to see what solutions could be had for charging while you wait for your truck to get loaded.
A good substitute to a tuck is a train it exells in capacity,speed,safety,speed and electric versions are just as good and even very cheap
For some use cases you can put the battery in the trailer. The trailer battery can recharge while it’s at the dock
Clever!
Well that will sacrifice volume of the trailer, and the more weight you put in, the less weight you can carry. You notice a lot of trucks have aluminum wheels? It's not just for looks. Aluminum wheel is up to 30 lbs lighter. 30×18=540lbs. That's 540lbs more payload capacity as you are limited to a maximum gross weight, and axles have a weight limit for each axle so weight distribution is important as well. You could be within your maximum gross weight, and still overweight on some of your axles and subject to $1000s fines
@@juliogonzo2718 "For some use cases"
@@traviswatson6527 No one is going to buy these to haul less cargo. Keep dreaming.
@@BigMateo24 why you getting offended? Shit ain’t personal. Not all trucking is the same. Not every load or every trailer is weight capped. Loads of LTL, volume capped, etc. Keep an open mind. Or keep being close minded and stay out of business decision making 😉
Hello, I tough that one of the biggest issues with electric towing vehicles is that your battery is stealing payload capacity and you didn't mention it at all what gives in the total cost of operations you are taking in account that you will need more trucks to deliver the same weight?
Matt, you did not included Hyliion company, which addresses (and solves) all the problems electric, hydrogen or diesel 8 class trucks deals with. Do a DD and you'll find whole new theme to dealing with green heavy transport solutions.
Matt you are missing a big element in your cost comparison which is life expectancy of battery and cost to replace it. Max is 10 years and what to do with it after 10 years? Replacing will be half the cost of new truck and where to dispose it?
The whole idea about EV / Etrucks is not very green as we think. Also there will be an issue to load the grid at certain charging peaks.
Matt:. Thanks. This is the first brand comparison with weights included. Very nice.
👍 Thanks.
Any love for Hyliion Matt? Great content and production as always!
The key is to make law about "Standardized Battery Unit"
for each 100 kilo-watt-hr, built it as a single Battery Unit for all electric trucks in US.
Say you have a Truck with 6 units (100 kwhr x 6) , when you reach to a charge station with 5 empty units and 1 unit still full of charge. Just swap 5 empty batteries with 5 fully charged battery.
This way you can complete battery swap in less than 5 mins.
I want to throw a wrinkle into this somewhat. Back in the 80s diesel engines got double or even 3 times as much mileage on a gallon of fuel and the same could be said of gas engines before Catalytic Converters, gas engines in the 50s and 60s would get around 40 to 50 miles per gallon. At one point I had an 84 GMC Suburban which would get 32 miles per gallon highway and 26 city. Theirs a theory on weight, but the Suburban being made of heavy grade steel body and frame versus the new lightweight steel frame and plastic body. They also said the weight comes from the power windows and locks and other things where they hook up wires. Suburban had the power windows, locks, steering all that stuff. The suburban had one other thing that most other vehicles did not have at the time. On the back was a tailgate like on a pickup, but with a slight difference, it had a power window that would go completely inside the tailgate. This made the tailgate heavy (about 50 lbs) and held up by two thick wire cables. This could have been done years ago, If we went back to this sort of energy efficiency it blows the batteries out of the water hands down. You would get double what the battery gets and save on emissions actually, using less fuel to get to the same distance. Do you ever factor in the emission cost to make these batteries? The production puts out more emissions than the gas and diesel cars produce and if we can up the mileage per gallon on a gas and diesel vehicle like we used to have it would lower emission levels. You want to know why its never been done? It comes down to the bottom line. If you have to fill that tank more often then you make them wealthier. A lot of things that worked well they had to find a way to lower the efficiency or ban it all together. If it doesn't put money into their pocket then its no good to them. There is still another major problem with electric aside from the fact that it just does not have the power for heavy lifting. No one is thinking of the big stuff, you are showcasing a standard tractor trailer that really isn't pulling that much weight. Throw 12,000 lbs or more on a battery truck and see how far it gets. 12,000 lbs is the low end. Other major problem with electric, the plugs aren't all the same there are two many different companies that you have to have an account with and each one has a different rate, there's no regulation on it. What happens when we have another Texas winter? Do you know that in certain temperatures batteries have a hard time producing energy? That is why in winter sometimes its hard to get your car started, but at least the battery in a gas car is only used as a capacitor, once the car is started you don't have to worry about the battery. Parts are more expensive and the resale value is always going to be horrible. Not to mention car collisions in these things would leak some really nasty hazardous material if those cells crack. No matter what battery you are using it has acid or a chemical just as dangerous inside of it. Self driving cars aren't any safer, before you go off on that. Too many collisions and lost signals in areas that has caused collisions or property damage. No one thinks how this impacts people is rural areas, or the fact that people just can't afford them in general. After a while batteries can no longer hold a charge. How much would it be to replace the battery pack? could you get a replacement battery pack or would you have to buy a whole new vehicle? What happens if your battery dies? Not like you can jump it and off you go. Another point is if you run out of power on a long trip, not like you can go to the nearest gas station and fill up a can with electricity and take it back to fill up your car. It actually happens a lot. Logistics that people just don't think about. Not to mention the long charging times. The main point is that at some point our companies and governments have made it so you have to consume more gas and diesel to fill their pockets. If we fixed that problem it would fix other issues. Not to mention at some point because this isn't netting these same people the profits they are going to push for some legislation that decreases the efficiency of these vehicles and tax the power companies more to drive up the price of electricity all around. That is what happened when diesel started to take off. It was half the price or lower than gas, but then legislation got passed and jacked up diesel prices. Not everything has been thought through, to be honest, but if you have answers for these things feel free to reply. Positive feed back only, don't need anyone cussing me out because I have concerns and questions that no one has answered or really brought up, it goes back further than the electric car debate. In closing there are a few other questions to be asked and talked about, but lets start with what we have now.
tldr
No mention of payload. What is the unladen weight of the truck and will it reduce the carrying capacity?
trucks can only carry 80000 pounds without a permit that’s the truck, trailer and load they cannot afford a 10000 pound battery pack ( i don’t know the exact figures but consider that my uneducated guess on the weight of battery’s 😂) but a tesla car weighs around 7-8 thousand pounds while a f-150 weighs about 5000 crazy right? that’s because battery’s are heavy asf these trucks want to cut the weight of there trucks already as much as possible not to mention the range issue these trucks have and the to my knowledge unknown effect towing heavy loads has on battery life
11:40 Umicore and Anglo American are working on a organic hydrogen carrier liquid. This would mitigate the need to invest heavily into a new hydrogen infrastructure, because we could use the existing petrol station infrastructures. And you don't have the usual hydrogen storage problems.
(I'm sorry if I made typos. English isn't my native language)
after reading a few vague google results it sounds like they're bonding hydrogen to an "organic liquid" so some other organic molecule ( one containing H, C, N, or O) then de-hydrogenating it with a process similar to the one shown at: 10:54 and using said hydrogen to power a hydrogen fuel cell to produce electricity. I wonder what the 'organic liquid' is, and what it's going to have as a reaction byproduct. Hydrocarbon and CO2? Hydrogen Peroxide and H2O?
@@cortburris9526 The organic carrier won't really participate in any reaction because it only carries the H+ to the catalytic dehydrogenation. When dehydrogenated the carriers is conjugated (it has unsaturated bonds). This gives "space" for H+ to bind with the carrier once they hydrogenate it again.
So in theorie if you catch the carrier after dehydrogenation at fuel station for example, the industry can regenerate it with H+ and bring it back to the fuel station.
(I'm sorry if some terms are weirdly translated 😅, I don't know all the terms in english)
Post edit: shortened the text 😅
That would solve the hydrogen storage problem, but it would make an already expensive fuel even more expensive, and it would add a lot of weight. So, it creates more problems than it solves, rather like hydrogen.
@@chrismuir8403 well it wouldn't necessarily make it more expensive, but that depends strongly on the used technology and the economic policy (I don't know if that's the correct english term 😅) of the country where it would be used.
Yes yes. The weight of the fuel would be higher, but you can use existing pipelines instead of specialised cooled high pressure vessels. Once at the fuel station it can be converted to the classic Hydrogen fuel.
It's true that hydrogen still has drawbacks. But every advance like this makes it more and more viable as a sustainable alternative fuel for heavyweight transport and other uses.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think leaving hydrogen, or other alternative fuels/energies, behind would be a good thing to do.
Or maybe I'm too optimistic ? 😅
(I'm sorry my texts are so long 😱)
L - You don't need to apologize for bad spelling, grammar or being long winded. We English speakers are used to people from many countries trying to speak, and write, so we are used to it, it's no big deal! Yes, there will be rude people that will point out your mistakes, but you don't have to read their remarks, and if we think you write too many words, we don't have to read them either.
Regarding the daily potential of a long haul electric vehicle remember that the rules (daily hours limit, etc.) only apply to those who choose to be subject to them. Independant owner/operators will no doubt want more range if they're being paid by the load and even corporate drivers who get paid by the mile will flout the rules if the company doesn't enforce it on them. There were several times as a school bus driver my total hours driving exceeded 11 between daily route, midday field trips, and after hours sports trips. These kind of electric vehicles will, therefore, be normal among local delivery and short distance routes long before they become common for long haul trucking.
Considering the charge times you meantioned it seems like they are easily losing 1/3 of their driving time (though some of these breaks can be used for stuff like eating). Even if this drops by half that is still not going to be viewed favourably
Hey bud, they can only drive 12 hours a day anyway. 12 * 65 mph = 780 miles. If they get that much range and enough charging stations it’ll be fine.
@@Ja_Mes batteries add weight so either you need to reduce ratio of cargo to engine and fuel or stop to charge during the day which does count towards that 12 hour limit. Thats one of the major differences between combustion and electric vehicles, gas weight is relatively insignificant but requires an engine capable of turning it into useful acceleration so their isnt much downside to whatever range you pick whereas electric can use a simpler engine because of the versatility of electricity but gains weight fast when you add range
Matt, despite the fact that truckers can drive up to 11 hours per day, they will rarely (if ever) do this in one go. They will have stops in between to take a break, eat, or go to the bathroom. These breaks are perfect opportunities to recharge your truck. So in reality, a 500 mile battery should be more than enough for 95% of use cases.
How long do they usually stop, though? If it’s an hour per break and they do that multiple times per shift, then yeah 500 miles should be enough. If it’s ten minutes per break, that doesn’t sound like enough time to make up much charge. (Not trying to be a downer, just wondering what it’ll take for electric to dominate.)
@@RyanWilliams222 Trucker are required to take one 30 continuous minute minimum break for every 8 hours “on the clock”. This is in addition to the 11 hour daily maximum. If you have a megawatt scale charger and a 500+ mile range truck ( like Semi), a 30 minute charge on the required break would add about 50% range back so BEV truck would then have no trouble keeping up with a diesel semi even if at maximum load.
@@williammeek4078 Well then heck yeah, let’s start building those Megachargers!
I was going to say the same thing. And I don't think they would mind to stick around 1 hour during the break if they can get filled up to 100% as well.
In Europe the rules are much stricter. 56 hours a week max, with 2 days of max 10 hours. Every 4.5 hours a 45 minute break. So there the charging should be a non issue as well.
And in countries such as the Netherlands 80% of truck drivers do day trips, long haulers is just 20%. So they won't even make the 500 miles a day, since the max speed in most EU countries is just 80 km/h. 10h at 80km/h is 800km ~ 500 miles.
@@williammeek4078 The average US Interstate truck stop will have between 50 and 100 trucks in the lot at any one time. You will need numerous 'mega' chargers in place to support any sort of 30-minute battery top-off scheme. Not impossible, but not something that will happen anytime soon.
They might be able to do local routes and not over the road any time soon. Probably more than a decade away. OTR need to be be reach 1000 miles a day for team operations and 650 mile a day for solo operation. As 27 year veteran truck driver I drove 145,000 miles last year and I have nearly 3 million miles driven in my career. So electric trucks would need a massive step up in all OTR cases.
Hi. I'm curious. Would it be possible as a solo operator to schedule a 45min break somewhere in the 11hrs? How about the team operators, would that be detrimental?
@@mrblurleighton Breaks are MANDATORY by law for truck drivers. In my country every 4,5 hours a 45 min break. And maximum twice a week 10 hours a day. (9 hours other days)
@@mrblurleighton Yes we are Required to take a 30 min break for 8 hours of on duty time. How ever the issue has to do with the distances driven plus time for us to sleep. I can average 520 miles or so in that 8 hours. Depending on where I need to stop charging stations are going to be an issue. As I may have to stop my 11 hour clock at 9 hours instead of 10 to 11 hours because there is no charging where I am going. Example being delivery to farms or off road sites. Then there is running the heater/ac over night when I sleep. Raymond is correct that the truck would have to have some where around 1000 to 1300 miles for safety. Changing weather conditions and so forth in the areas of the US that have heavy snow and or wind. Those conditions will have a big impact on power use in the trucks over all performance. Not to mention again weight of the batteries and how heavy duty the power train is going to be as to how much weight we can haul. You have Over sized loads that in some cases run over 40 US Tons and some times up to 60 to 65 US tons.
@@navithefairy @Kenneth Bankers Thx much!
The average US Interstate truck stop will have between 50 and 100 trucks in the lot at any one time. You will need numerous 'mega' chargers in place to support any sort of 30-minute battery top-off scheme. Not impossible, but not something that will happen anytime soon.
I really feel like electric rail infrastructure makes far more sense to move away from diesel.
you do know USA will never upgrade the railroad system. we got to hope for the hyperloop to work out.
@@orangecookie3132 So you are suggesting it would be better to build 10,000s of miles of "near vacuum" tubes with all the inherent problems of achieving that, to building 10,000 miles of traditional rail lines which has none of the problems associated with "near vacuum" tubes. Economically, rail would win hands down compared to any type of Hyperloop plus it could be electrified with no need to carry the batteries with the units.
@@orangecookie3132 Never say never, the thing about the US and rail is that the potential it's there. It's simply a matter of how bad things need to get before the nation jolts awake and how long completion will take.
@@orangecookie3132 Dreams.
@@orangecookie3132 Hyperloop is a scam. Trains are way more efficient and don't cost nearly as much
All comes down to how much freight you can haul per load - which comes back to battery density / mass - and thats a threshold we cant seem to change - changes to tesla batteries so far are not density changes but building the batteries closer to each other - ie packaging . Even with greatly improved packaging they would mean a truck would haul less than half the conventional freight simply because the batteries are too heavy and steal the loading capacity - ua-cam.com/video/w__a8EcM2jI/v-deo.html
fax my guy
What if instead of a battery, the trucks got electricity from an overhead wire? And since that would limit them to just one or two lanes in each direction, you could separate those lanes from the rest of traffic which would allow them to travel faster and more safely. And since they're in dedicated lanes, you could have them pulling dozens of containers instead of just one or two, greatly increasing carrying capacity. However, all those rubber wheels on pavement will cause an awful lot of drag, so you can probably reduce that friction by making the wheels out of steel and putting them on some kind of steel track. That would also have a lot less wear and tear so maintenance would be cheaper.
Man, I can't believe nobody has ever thought of this! I better go slap a patent on it!
@@ryancox4498 I was about to post a cocky reply along the lines of "or, just improve freight rail networks lol" after reading the first sentence. Glad I don't have to. 😂
@@ryancox4498 good stuff, I recently saw a funny clip where they talk about harnessing the power of the wind to move container ships.
It's proven fact that an electric voltage is generated by a conductor (wiring or metallic rods) passing through a magnetic field (earth's gravity) will generate an electrical voltage. This concept is explained by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction. Just add an array of wiring or rods on top of your truck and trailers and VOLLA! Perpetual motion.